We know what you’re thinking: Dave Navarro is gonna talk about the onstage brawl. But Cory Wong starts this episode of Wong Notes with an important caveat. This show was recorded long before the awful breakdown and confrontation between Navarro and Jane’s Addiction vocalist Perry Farrell, so don’t expect any salacious gossip. But that just makes this episode all the more interesting.

Navarro talks Wong through his formative influences, from Hendrix, Zeppelin, and the Doors to Maiden, heavy metal, and goth. That melting pot, he says, became one of Jane’s Addiction’s calling cards: “Perry and Eric [Avery] ended up in a band that is influenced by bands they hate,” laughs Navarro, who geeks out on Rush and prog-rock.

Navarro discusses how Jane’s Addiction has a propensity for jamming live, a practice developed out of a mutual appreciation for nontraditional song structures. But the delineations can sometimes go wrong. “We do run into trainwrecks,” says Farrell. “Sometimes we’ll find ourselves in a part that we’re vibing on, and we’ll keep going, and Perry doesn’t know what we’re doing. He’ll come in and it’s in the wrong place, and we’re fucking him up.”

Tune in to hear Navarro talk his “rabbit hole de jour” practice style, how to exercise your fingers and your brain, and a lead technique he calls “the Navarro smear.” All this and more on this latest episode of Wong Notes.

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Produced by Jason Shadrick and Cory Wong

Additional Editing by Shawn Persinger

Presented by DistroKid

What's happening? Welcome to Wong Notes podcast. I'm your host, Cory Wong. Today on the show, we got a very special guest, Dave Navarro.

I've been a huge fan of Navarro for years.

When I was a little kid,

Had a guitar tab book of one hot minute. I learned the album top to bottom, every guitar part. So I've studied Navarro's playing intensely.

I've learned a bunch of the Jane's addiction music from when I was a little kid, and also some of the other songs that he's played on just for other artists. So I'm a huge fan. It was an absolute honor to interview Dave for this interview. And cool guy. Just a totally cool guy. Just an artist, too, man.

This cat's cat's got some concept, dude. Now, I know some people are here, and they're probably thinking, ooh, Wong's interviewing Navarro. We're going to get some tea.

We're going to get some action on whatever's going on. Now, I have a couple options here.

I can, number one, just not tell you when this interview was done and let you wait and listened to the interview a long time, and blah, blah.

Ooh, is he gonna talk about what happened? Like, there was a whole thing that happened?

I'm gonna let you know right now. This interview was done before the Jane's addiction tour started. Okay.

I did this interview a couple months back, and that doesn't mean, oh, don't listen if you're not listening for t. What I'm saying is, it's a very interesting thing to get the perspective of him going into this tour and now finding out what just happened.

You know, a lot of us have seen there's some stuff that happened. The tour's off. There was some quarrels that happened. I have no opinion on it because I don't know everything. I wasn't there.

I'm not gonna speak on that. I'll let you do your own research, whatever.

But what I will say is, it's very interesting to talk to Dave, regardless of whatever happened with that tour. Dave's an incredible musician, artist, and I'm just such a huge fan.

And honestly, yeah, given everything that's happened in the last few weeks, it is really interesting to get this perspective of his mindset going into the tour. And I was looking forward to seeing one of the shows, to be honest. I mean, we talk about it in the interviews, like, yeah, come out to the show, man.

Let's hang.

I wish I could. Bummed I didn't get a chance to see it, but here we are, you know, band dynamics, things happen. A lot of history in that band.

Doesn't make me any less of a fan, though, if I'm gonna be honest. So, hey, enjoy the interview with Dave. Thanks for being here.

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All right, let's hit this episode.

Well, Dave, thanks so much for joining us today. It's an absolute treat to have you on.

Thanks for having me. I just can't wait for the day that I can have AI do this for me.

Do what? What part of it?

Podcasts.

Shirts off, Ibanez in the hand. It is. I'm at. I'm up at the cabin right now, but back home in the studio, it is on the bookshelf still.

Oh, you're kidding. That's great. Thank you so much.

Incredibly inspired by your playing for so many years. And I have a bunch of questions regarding different groups that you played with different things.

Sure.

I also. We have a mutual friend in Chris Cheney. I texted him yesterday and said, hey, what do I got to ask Dave about? So he says hi, and he is the best.

And I just. I couldn't be happier for him.

Like, you know, I've been playing with him for over 20 years in one form or another in Jane's addiction and royal machines and Camp Freddy, and we had a band with Taylor Hawkins and.

Yes.

And now he's in the biggest band in the world.

Dude, I didn't even know he's an AC DC now. He was like, yeah, dude, just play this gig for 130,000 people. I'm like, what?

Yeah, it's insane. I know. I'm so happy for him. Yeah, he really, you know, the irony there is that.

And not to slag AC DC, but the irony is that Chris is one of the most professional, talented, like, muso Berkeley School of music, like music theory, you know, Jaco Pastorius kind of player. And he's in AC DC, which has got to be the easiest gig in the world for him.

Yeah, but that's the thing that makes him so great, is that he knows when and when not to use certain things.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

And what's interesting, I mean, yeah, I also saw him. I was hanging with him in Mexico City. He was playing with Miley Cyrus at Corona Capitol Festival or something when I was also playing.

It's like this dude can play in the. In the pop realm. He can play rock. He can. He can fit into all these different settings. Alanis Morissette, I saw.

Yeah, I've seen him with Jane's addiction.

Yeah, if you. If you. If you check out his discography on wikipedia, it'll blow your mind.

It's like Celine Dion and just like, it's the craziest, the craziest collection of people. So, anyway, yeah, enough on Chris Cheney, but I'm happy. I'm happy. Tell him hi back if you see him or after this.

Curious, because you also have a very unique perspective where you are a guitar player. Guitar player. You are very in on the muso thing.

You understand guitar, how the role of the guitar works in different styles of music, but you also understand pop culture, and you understand the role of a rock star, a guitar player that serves a function as a thing, where it doesn't need to be about the shredding, but it's about the energy that the guitar brings.

I'm curious where that comes from, like, how you developed that and kind of what your mindset is on balancing pop culture, guitar cat, versus really getting into it on the instrument.

Yeah. I, you know, got to be honest with you, my influences growing up, they changed consistently, you know. So I first started getting into playing.

It was all Hendrix all the time. That's it. There's all Hendrix all the time. Then I got into Led Zeppelin.

Then I got into the doors and heard Robbie Krieger underplay stuff and play stuff in weird tunings and, you know, getting a little pulled in that direction and just kind of like adding to the song, but not featured in the song. And then I got into Iron Maiden and I got into heavy metal and I got into really, like, aggressive guitar shredding, ripping stuff.

Of course, when I was maybe eleven years old, ten or eleven years old, Van Halen one came out and that just, you know, just, I was already in the Hendrix. And once I heard Van Halen one, that was like, okay, this is what I'm going to do for a living.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? And that just blew everybody's, everybody's mind away. And so, and then at the same time, I was always buying bootlegs of my favorite bands.

I was buying Black Sabbath bootlegs. I was buying Led Zeppelin bootlegs. I was buying Hendrix bootlegs.

And I noticed on the bootlegs, most of them sounded terrible, but for the most part, I would listen to them basically to hear the guitar player. And a lot of them, most of them, especially Hendrix and Page, like, they weren't playing the solo that they played on the record.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? They were just kind of like going off and free forming.

It didn't occur to me that guys wrote solos or played them the way they were on the record or whatever, you know what I mean? Not so much later.

So I think that having such a juxtaposition of influences, you know, you got Eddie Van Halen there, who's, you know, if I had a Mount Rushmore, it would be Hendrix, it would be Van Halen, it would be David Gilmore. Always have trouble with the fourth spot. Maybe Paige, maybe Clapton. I don't. It's, you know, the fourth spot's always.

The toughest, the rotating fourth.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And Eddie, and frankly, Eddie might need him monument on his own to make room for that fourth. You know what I mean? But, you know, so I just.

I really delved into these guys style and approach and playing and kind of fused them all together as my own because I didn't. I didn't want to sound like any of them, but I wanted to be able to do what they did.

And, you know, the irony is that, you know, in the early days of Jane's addiction, we'd be playing really avant garde music, and then I'd go home and I'd be playing mean streets, you know, so, you know, because that's, you know, it was fun, but I didn't want to. I didn't want to copy anybody.

And then as I got a little older, I got more into the punk rock, goth, bauhaus, Susie and the Banshees, you know, love and rockets kind of world.

The approach of guitar playing and, you know, chorus and acoustic guitars and I, you know, moody stuff that kind of laid a kind of a melancholy vibe but wasn't really in your face. And I kind of connected that to my love of Pink Floyd, where David Gilmore does that.

He's very vibe oriented, and he's very subdued until it's his solo, and then it's the most memorable, heart wrenching, tear jerking guitar solo there is. You know what I mean? So, Pink Floyd, my love of my Pink Floyd days, kind of trans. Kind of gave me the handoff into the goth days. And I think.

And I think that what I'm stuck with now is I just kind of incorporate, naturally, all those styles into my playing. I don't. I don't think that I'm a great shredder. I don't think that I'm a great muso guy. I don't think that, you know, I do ambient stuff necessarily.

You know, that's my number one thing. But what I do think is I try to do all of those things. Yeah. Because I like, when I'm recording, I like to put 50 tracks of guitars down.

You know what I mean? Cause I just keep ideas, ideas, ideas, ideas. And by the end of the day, you won't hear the bass and drums. It's just like, tracks of guitars. And then.

And then I pull away what's not working or what's. Yeah, and then, like, get it to a place where it's like, oh, I like this thing. I like this thing. Let's leave it. Yeah, but.

But what I mean by that is that I like there to be a colorful palette within the instrument that isn't one color. So.

Yeah, that range of sounds is across your entire discography and all the bands you played with and your solo record, that's very obvious. Even listening to the way that you're describing the acoustic melancholy, but very melodic and pretty.

I mean, immediately it's like, oh, yeah, that tuned, my friends, like, the way that you play acoustic on that and the guitar solo on that, that's such a. That's. I mean, as soon as you say that, I'm thinking, oh, yeah, acoustic, melancholy, dark, but also, it has something really pretty about it.

And the solo comes, and I can. I can sing the solo back in my head.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's. I guess that's a great example of. I mean, my friends has kind of more of a.

I hate to say it, but has more of a country vibe than a death vibe. But it's still. It still has more of what I would consider Daniel Ash and David Gilmore than any other two guitar players.

And, yeah, I could see where you would say that. Yeah, I really love that soul. And, like, the solo for that came about. Like, that's. That's the other thing is that I just.

I'm really improvised improvisational. Like, I don't go home and I write a solo and then come in and hit record and play it. Yeah. Like that.

That solo was intended to be a part, you know, in the song when I was trying, you know, when I overdubbed too much. You know what I mean? Like, oh, this would be a. This would be a cool part to, like, be under the vocal. Like, yeah.

And then the guy and my engineers, Dave Sardi at the time, said, dude, that's your solo right there. Yeah. And I was like, okay, you know, and I'm very open. I'm very open to suggestion, and I'm just kind of open to seeing.

Like, I feel like if I go into a session and I'm tracking and my mind's made up and I'm. And I am immovable about a specific idea or part, then I'm just limiting myself.

Yeah.

You know, so one of the things with Jane's addiction now.

Now that we're back in the original lineup is that I really enjoy working with the other band members on guitar parts because sometimes somebody will hear something that I won't hear. I. And I'll take it under advisement, you know, just like.

Just like, if you're not a sax player, you might hear the saxophone playing something that a sax player wouldn't play.

Totally.

So, you know, so I keep my ears open. If people. If I. If people say something or do something, you know, or suggest something.

I'm like, well, that might be cool, or maybe we can expand on it here. We could do this there.

But, yeah, I wouldn't, you know, so I think that that kind of encapsulates, capsulates my approach to playing is that I'm not necessarily, you know, like virtue. There's no real virtuosity going on. There's, you know, like.

Like some of these guys, like Nuno, like, some of those, you know, some of the guys out there that are just fucking unbelievable. And, you know, I. I wish I could play it like that, but I just don't have the patience to sit and learn it.

But we all have our own thing, you know?

You.

You have a voice on the instrument, you know?

Yeah, exactly. It's. And it's about having that voice, you know, I mean, and I don't want to have somebody else's voice. Yeah, I would like.

I would like to be able to do it, but sure, you know, I probably wouldn't. I probably wouldn't record it. Yeah.

Well, the way that you're talking about coming up with parts two, what I really like about your artistry and your artistic path is that I feel like you're one of those players that really does well in an ensemble and in a band. And I've always loved. I mean, you know, many of us, we grew up not being able.

Like, if you heard something in your head, you couldn't just put down some drums and bass in your computer and play along with it and do it all yourself. Like, we had to get in a room. Listen to me. I sound like an old man now, but, you know, you had to get in a room with your friends and play it.

And a lot of times, you, like, you're saying somebody will hear something different. There's a little bit of a more collaborative process, and a band environment is a really fun place to be, where I am kind of bummed for some.

I mean, it's great the way the industry is now, and people can make stuff at home, and it's the low barrier to entry, but I do feel like a lot of people miss out on that sort of shared experience.

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, like, not only is that the case for us in the room, but it's the case for us in a live setting where, you know, steven is one of the most unpredictable drummers in the world. You know, you don't know what tempo the song's gonna be. You don't know.

You don't know if it's going to stay there, if it's going to slow down, if it's going to increase, if he's going to start doing some strange hi hat change in the middle of a part that we've done a million times before just because he feels like it, and then when he does do that change, Eric and I kind of jump on it.

Sure.

And, like, kind of groove out on something. And that happens more times than not. It happened more on this last european tour. We're really getting it. The three of us are really getting into a.

Listening to one another kind of a vibe. And it's not about this is the way the song goes. It's about this is the way the song goes tonight.

Yeah.

You know, that's cool. And, like, we'll have, you know, we'll have three days, and one night it'll be eight minutes, and the next night it'll be 14 minutes.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? And it's just like. And it keeps it fun and it keeps.

Yeah.

And it keeps us on the. On, like, on the edge, because you don't know if you're going to run into a train wreck. And we do run. We.

We do run into train wrecks quite often, you know? And, you know, like, sometimes we'll be. We'll find ourselves in a part that we. That we're kind of vibing on and we just kind of keep going.

And then Perry doesn't know what we're doing.

Yeah.

And he. He comes in and, like, it's in the wrong place, and. But it's. We're fucking him up.

And, like, but like, those moments of train wrecks that aren't that often, I would say one out of ten. It's a one out of ten ratio. It's worth it. It's worth it because it still keeps it vibey, still keeps it kind of dangerous.

It still keeps us on our toes.

It still gives us something to come backstage and be excited about and go, yeah, what about that thing tonight where the thing happened and you played this and I did that? You know, that's. That's really cool shit. You know what I mean? And so that's.

I don't know if that's just who we are as players or if that's what happens when you play two records from the eighties for 30 years.

Yeah, no, but that's cool. That kind of thing translates to the audience, and if they see that you guys are willing to take risks and having fun, I think they appreciate that.

I think music fans that are going to see an actual band play. They want to see that. They don't want you to play the exact record from the eighties.

I never would see that. I would never want to see that.

There are moments when we're playing and we get lost in some new little kind of, like, especially in three days, like, we'll kind of side skirt and go into, like, a ambient noise section. And it is so, like, magical because it will never be repeated.

It's that one night in that one room for that one specific crowd, and we're all in the moment. And at that time, I am not thinking about anything. Do you know what I mean? Like, completely lost in the music.

I mean, I played these songs for so many years that I can be playing stop and thinking about what movie I'm gonna be watching on the bus later. You know what I mean?

Yeah, totally.

Like, you know, it just. It's. It's just second nature. But when we really get into the fog is really where I get excited and, you know, sometimes.

Sometimes the fog turns into exhaust and that's not that great, but it's what keeps the band interesting and keeps us fresh as players and, you know. You know, it's just. It's a different experience this time around.

I don't know, it's just sometimes I'll be playing and I'll turn around and Eric Avery is on my side of the stage, crouched down, listening to what's coming out of my ampenne, you know what I mean? Like, because we all have in ears. Yeah, but he wants to hear it, but he wants to hear it louder.

So he comes over and he's playing off that and it's just like. And it gives it so much more of a visceral feeling when we're paying attention to each other like that.

But he's such a dope bass player.

He's absolutely the backbone of the. Of the band musically. I'm sure you've heard the expression, if you can play a great song on an acoustic guitar, then you know you have a great song.

You know. You ever heard that?

Yeah, of course.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. With us, if you can play it on the bass and sing along, then we know we have a great song.

Yeah, that is very. That is very obvious in that band.

Yeah.

Yes.

And that is just. That is just the case. And so he's the primary songwriter, but, you know, it's all, you know, we all very much contribute.

So what he comes in with ends up changing and, you know, more often than not, he'll say, God, I didn't picture it going like this at all, but this is. Is great. You know what I mean? Or whatever. Or I'll play something and he'll change his notes that he came in with. He's like, oh, that's.

Now you're onto something. Hold on, let me change this. So we just. There's like, there's, like, no ego whatsoever among the three of us.

Like, if something is better for the song, it's better for the song, you know?

And there was a song that we were working on where the outro had kind of a vamp, and I wanted Steven to just go crazy like Keith Moon style, you know? And he had this. This beat that he was really in love with, that he wanted to stay with. He's like, yeah, but this beat is keeping his story.

And it's an unusual beat. Like, I understand that, but just in the outro, try and go somewhere else with it, and he's like, okay. And he did, and it's fucking incredible.

And not only did he go somewhere else with it, that was completely insane. But the interesting beat that he had for the majority of the song stands out more now.

Yeah.

Because it goes somewhere. You're more conscious of what you heard before. So it's really cool, you know, it's just. It's a cool environment.

Probably the coolest environment for us for writing in a long time.

I think, you know, being the ages that we are and having done this so many times and attempted to do this so many times, it's just, you know, I think. I think we're just kind of learning to, you know, the older you get, the more you let go of. That's my idea. And it should go like this.

You know what I mean? Like, nobody really cares. Like, we just want to get the song well, that's cool.

I love that.

Well, besides playing music, I know that you do a lot of visual art as well, and I know you're involved in all kinds of other forms of self expression. I'm curious, because you played music for so long, you are known, you're such a well regarded musician and guitar player writer.

I'm curious, when it comes to painting or when it comes to visual art, is there some form of self expression that you're able to accomplish with painting that you're not able to get with music?

Yeah. It's not collaborative. It's not collaborative. It's just my voice. Does it feel more intimate? It feels more intimate. It feels. It feels.

How can I put this? Intimate is not. That feels more private. It's private. It's just me alone in my garage and just exploring.

And it's funny you bring the painting up because that is how I track guitars.

It's like as if I was throwing every color in the rainbow, every color on the color wheel at the, you know, at the machine or whatever, and then I could peel colors away. Well, the yellow doesn't really look good here. Or, you know, and with painting, I have to be very specific about the colors. So in some ways, the two.

The two art forms inform one another because I've noticed since doing a lot of painting that I am more focused in the studio.

Yeah.

Like, I already know that yellow is not going to work. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

So it's. So it's. It's kind of. They kind of help each other in a little bit of a way, you know? And it's obviously with the painting stuff, you know, there's.

There's a lot to it because, you know, there's intimacy to it. There's privacy to it. There's expression and reaching deep down to it. There's a technical side of it that I find fascinating.

And then, frankly, when I go out on the street and paint, you know, there's an adrenaline inside of it, too, because, you know, that's, that's, you know, it's a form of expression that's not necessarily approved by law enforcement, so you kind of got to get it done, and, but then it's really. It's a satisfying feeling to drive by and know that whatever you're doing has impacted however many passers by there has been.

And you have no idea, you know, because with records, you can track streams, you can track record sales. You can do that, you know, with street art, you've no idea who sees what or what anybody thinks. You know what I mean? So it's, it's, it's, it's.

It's kind of, like, freeing in the sense that you get to do something experimental and. And creative and truly not give a fuck what anybody thinks.

Yeah.

And that's. You know what I mean? Like, and, and I try to bring that into the music, that same attitude, even though I care a lot.

Yeah, but, but, you know, but, but at the same time, um, you know, this is, this is what it is, and, you know, take it or leave it, you know? And then we've always been that way, you know?

So some things have shifted since the original days with this lineup, but some things have stayed very much the same, you know? And, yeah, we try to. We try to push ourselves and not. I don't know if you heard the song imminent redemption that just came out. It's our newest song.

I think it sounds like Jane's addiction. It's very bass heavy, very bass driven. But the odd thing about it is it has a specific chorus.

I was just going to say song form. The traditional Jane's addiction song form is not pop rock standard.

I was just going to say the fact that there's a landing pad that feels like there's a release. It's different, but it's cool. It feels like it's exploration in a different space, but not in a pandering way.

It kind of is. And some of the records with Cheney, we had choruses and stuff. But if you think about Jane's addiction 1.0 stop doesn't have a chorus.

Mountain doesn't have a chorus. Stealing doesn't really have a chorus. Jane says kind of has a chorus, but it's still the same two chords.

You know, ain't no right doesn't have a chorus. There's just two parts. Like, it's just like, we never. It never occurred to us to write a chorus. Like, there needs to be this.

There needs to be this memorable, ear catching thing that makes people like it. It's very strange.

And, like, I'm amazed that we got as far as we did without courses, because I don't think any one of us, you know, we all, in our teenage years, kind of just went from our. Our parents basement to a rehearsal studio.

Yeah.

You know, and, like, didn't. You know, and didn't. And the one thing that we all did have in common is that we didn't like formulaic music.

Yeah.

Now, what's interesting about that is that Eric was very punk rock driven. You know? Perry. Did I say Eric? Yeah, Eric was very punk rock driven. Perry was very. He was just getting out of the goth scene.

He had a band called Psychon, which is fucking amazing. If anybody wants to YouTube that, it's available, it's Psi. C o n. He fucking sounds so good on that.

And then Perkins and I were, like, the young rush fans, you know what I mean? So, like, we didn't want boring, repetitive songs either.

You know, we were more into, like, I don't know if you want to call it fusion exploration, whatever you want to call Rush. You know, we loved Van Halen. We loved Black Sabbath. We loved all those bands. We loved Hendrix, who loves Zeppelin. But, you know, there's something.

There was something about rush.

If you take a song, like, if you take an album like 20 112, where you take a song like via Serangiato, or you take side two of moving pictures, like, you're just like, these guys just keep changing parts and don't go back to the other part. You know what I mean? And we love that.

So even though all of our musical tastes were totally different, I think that one thing that we did all bond on was non traditional structure and three days. I mean, I think we repeat one thing twice, but there's no chorus to that song.

Yeah, but the other thing that does feel like it has in the music is hooks. I mean, at the end of the day, that's a chorus is just like, what's. It's the most memorable thing in the song or whatever, but the music has hooks.

There's all these things, like, even, like. Yeah, with Jane says, like, you're saying. It's like.

To me, it almost feels like the landing spot on the bass line and the groove that it ends up landing on can still just function like a chorus does because it's a memorable groove and bass line. It's just. It has it. To me, it functions the same, and a lot of these two.

Yeah, exactly. And Jane says, we're not really changing musically, but Perry is. Yeah, that makes. That makes the chorus so. You know what I mean? Like, we never.

But none of that was really intentional or, like, let's not have a chorus in this. Or we just wrote the songs as they came. And wouldn't it be cool if it went into this part? And wouldn't be cool if it went into that part.

You know, just, like, kids, like playing, you know? And, like, we all liked non traditional stuff.

If you listen to Bauhaus, like, those songs are not pop songs by any manner, you know, and we were all into them. And if you listen to a lot of Pink Floyd songs, you know, they just kind of. You listen to animals.

That thing just goes on and on and on and on and on, and it's fucking amazing. And it's just like, yeah, you know, you're not going to hear it on the radio, but who gives a fuck? And so we. The.

The irony is that Perry and Eric ended up in a band that is influenced by bands they hate. I think it's really funny. I think it's really funny. You know what I mean? You know, they are not rush fans. Me and Perkins are rush fans.

And so, like, Bonnie, but you can hear the rush in Jane's addiction.

Totally.

Yeah, you can hear it. So it's just like, it's. You can hear the punk rock, you can hear the goth, you can hear the heavy metal, but it's not any one of those things.

Yeah.

So. But it's interesting that imminent redemption first time back, first release has very much a chorus.

Yeah, you got a chorus. Undeniable chorus. Yeah.

Yeah. Which, you know, I like the chorus, but I, you know, I also know what's coming on the rest of the record.

Yeah.

And there's. There's plenty of non chorus stuff. I'm happy with that, you know, but I. Yeah, I just.

I think remaining experimental and listen, and then the other component that's pretty important to us is listening to what the lyrics are.

Mmm.

Can't stress that enough because, you know, there are so many songs out there where the guy's pouring his heart out, and then, you know, this guy's doing his eight finger tapping technique all over it, and it's just doesn't. It's not emotionally. It's not emotionally moving. Yeah. So, so we really kind of, like, kind of try and leave room for each other, you know? It's.

It's like if it's.

It's like if you listen to the who, you know, and you'll hear Roger Daltrey sing a line, and then as soon as the line's done, Keith throws a fucking crazy fill in there and he gets out of the way before the next line, you know what I mean? And it's just like, it's fucking crazy. I mean, the magic of that guy's playing.

But, you know, I kind of think that we all try to do that individually, you know?

Well, I think that's. That's also one of the things that separates these. These kind of bands from those, like, being able to connect in a general public way.

Like, you're able to connect with the general public even though you have all this eclectic background coming together that on paper would be like, huh, is the general public gonna like this? It's like there's enough awareness of other stuff that you're paying attention to that makes it. Yes, the general public is going to be into it.

Well, and one of the things I do like about the band is that there's not too many times that Eric and I are in unison.

Sure.

Like, he's usually playing something melodic, and I'm playing something that's counter melodic, but then when we do go into unison on Mountain or ain't no right, it's a moment of impact in the show.

Yeah.

That's like. Like a, you know, it's like a panzer division. You know what I mean? It's just. It's just. It's. It's crazy. So I really love.

I love the fact that we're willing to do both. Like, we don't try and outsmart ourselves and get too. Get too in our heads.

Like, you know, I love Radiohead, but, like, you know, just as an example, like, everything everybody's doing is interesting.

Yeah.

And. Which is great. And for them, it's fucking. It's amazing.

But, you know, within the context of a show, you know, I want everything to be interesting, too, but I also want something to just, like, I bite down on and go, this is fucking this. It's a flint train.

Yeah.

And so, you know, I think that we're lucky that we get to do all of it.

That's great. Well, there's one thing that Cheney told me about that kind of surprised me. He told me that you've been super into.

He's told me you've been in Steely Dan and the Jay Graydon peg solo, which is one of my favorite songs of all time. And what. And in my top five favorite solos of all time.

It's one of my top five favorite solos, and Jay Graydon's one of my favorite guitar players. I do this thing. I don't really practice.

Like, I don't sit at home and pick up the guitar and go over Jane's addiction songs or go over guitar solos or go over scales or go over things. What I do is I'll find the rabbit hole du jour, you know, like last month, like two months ago. I think the rabbit hole du jour was Van Halen.

So I went and got me one of these.

Oh, yeah.

I went and got me one of these. And I sat down and I learned as much Van Halen as I could fucking, you know, absorb. Yeah. And then. And then I'll do the same thing.

And then I'll tire of that. Then I'll go. I'll move over to Jay Graydon and I'll start getting really deeply into Steely Dan and, you know, and some of the chordal structures.

And that's another thing that I like to do is play with chordal structures that are. That are, you know, more jazz oriented than, you know, just your two finger power cordental.

Although I love the two finger power chord and I use it all the time, I also use really, really odd chords for rock and roll of this genre. And a lot of that has come from paying attention to Steely Dan stuff because if you. I mean, like, that is a crash course. And just this.

The fucking weirdest shapes and progressions.

It's fun, man.

It's just, you know, so that's when I say I practice, that's what I do. I'll find something. I don't know how to play that I've always wanted to play that I thought was too difficult to play, and I learn it.

And then by doing that, I feel like I'm kind of broadening my own vocabulary on the instrument. But, you know, you're still exercising your fingers, you're exercising your brain.

You're taking in new for information, and you're learning new, you know, new tricks on the cause. When I was growing up, we didn't have YouTube.

You know, I'm 57, so, you know, growing up, for me, it was like, put the needle on the record, listen to the part, pick up the needle, and try and find where it is on the guitar and play it, and then put the needle back down and try and learn the next part and pick the needle back up. You know, there weren't a million dudes just showing you. Exactly. Oh, here's what it is. And, like, that's, you know, I.

And that's how I learned to play. By ear.

Yeah.

By picking a lot. Picking up and putting it down.

When I was starting, I actually. One of my first guitar tab books, that's when. That's how I did.

I mean, obviously, I was listening to cds and stuff, but guitar tab books, this is still pre YouTube. Of course. I had the tab book for one hot minute, and that is where I learned a lot of different chord voicings.

And I'd sit around like, oh, what is that? How. What is that thing that sound like arrow playing the little. The two note voicing up top. Just trying to figure out, like, what is that thing?

It's like, oh, I don't have to play a full chord when it says g minor. I can just do these two little notes and then move this one, you know?

Yes.

I definitely resonate with you saying you explore this kind of territory, because for me, that was one of the things that really pulled me into your playing from such a young age, was it had the rock thing. It had all the energy of the two finger chord, but it had something else interesting with it that kind of perked up the ear in a way that was.

Oh, wait, what's that? Oh, that's a.

Thank you.

That's how you. Yeah. So I. I've always loved your approach to chord voicings.

To this day, I still can't read a tab. I don't know. I don't understand them. I don't know. Really? Never tried? No, I've never looked at one.

Wow.

Yeah. I just don't. I think tabs were something that just. I don't know if they came out after.

I just never knew what they were or they came out after I was at a certain point, or. I don't. I don't know. But I couldn't read a tab to save my life. I'd have a better chance learning braille. But.

But, you know, talking about the chili pepper record, you know, that was a very difficult transition to make. Yeah. Coming from Jane's addiction, which was all over the place and just a humbucker sound.

And, you know, I was playing prs and Les Paul and this and that, and then to get right into the chili peppers and have to hone in, like, a funk sound and trade in for a strat in order to do their back catalog service, you know? And I love strats, but they just, you know, they weren't. They didn't fill enough space for me.

Sure.

In the context of what I was doing, because my. One of my first guitars was a strat and because of Hendrix. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

And I just, you know, I loved it and still love it. And actually, I have a top secret strat being worked on right now at the custom shop, which I'm very excited. Who's building it?

Who's building it?

I can't. I can't reveal any. I can't reveal anything about it.

I like that.

Like, I really can't. Like, I really can't. It's like, it's a. It's gonna be magical, but we'll keep it secret. But, you know, I mean, they're.

They're doing that for me, and that's that. You know, it is magical.

But, you know, so to trade over to the strat for the chili peppers and not being used to having the same type of feedback that I'm used to and the same kind of sustain I'm used to and the same kind of fitness I'm used to and, like, you know, because with the Paul Reed Smith, if I want to get a scratch sound, I can change my pickup setting or I can roll down the volume and I can get that more of a cut kind of a sound, you know, and get kind of a thinner tone, and it kind of works, you know? And I kind of. It's multifunctional, but for us and for Jane's addiction.

He looks at me and goes, you use that? And I said, yeah. And I go, you use that? And he's like, yeah. And so. And both of us had the timings set against the beat. So if the.

So if the beat was here, it was just doing its own thing, and it just created this, like, fucking, like, psychedelic, surreal thing.

And I think the reason that I always used the delay and still do, I don't have that rack mount anymore, but the reason I still do is because without a rhythm guitar player, when I go to solo, a lot of sound goes away. Yeah, totally. So I fucking just immerse the shit in delay, for one thing.

And I really like that because it fills up the sound and, you know, and there's. And there's a little bit of a. You know, there's a little bit of an autocorrect.

I was just gonna say there's a little forgiveness in there. When you.

Yeah, I make a joke with Stephen that I call it the Navarro smear. It's just like, when I get caught up into a place, I don't know what to do. I just make it. Make some sound, and it's great, but, yeah, so.

And the funny thing, the irony to that, is that my love for the delay came about from the song wrath child by Iron Maiden, which nobody would ever would. Nobody would ever guess. Yeah.

Wow. Well, you talked about playing the strat in service of the catalog that went before in the chili peppers. But did you?

Because I knew your guitar playing with Jane's addiction, and then when you came into the peppers, I was interested in kind of hearing how you would approach when it comes to writing and coming up with your own thing. Did you have to consider, or were you. Were you considering in your head? Oh, here's kind of what people might expect of the guitar role.

So I'm going to maybe cater a little to that. Or did you just unabashedly be you?

If you.

What was your.

If you. If you read the reviews? That's certainly not the case. But I, you know, I just was me, and I was just me on a stratdhead.

And it was a really, you know, that was a really tough time. You know, that was. You know, they lost. John Anthony was going through his own thing, which is no secret because he wrote a book about it.

You know, I was coming out of one band that things were a certain way into another environment, that things were totally different way. Like, you know, I. I never worked like that. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

So, like, for instance, one of the main differences is that with Jane's addiction, Perry would come in with his. With his. With his poetry book. He'd go, I got these lyrics. Listen to these. And then we would try and write something around them.

Yeah.

Right. Whereas Anthony would wait for music to be written and then come up with lyrics. Now, I'm not saying one's right, one's wrong.

I'm just saying, like, for me. For me, I just didn't fucking know how to. You know, I was so used to, like, trying to accompany a concept. You know what I mean? Yeah. And.

And instead of laying the foundation of a concept that I don't know what it's going to be was very tricky.

Sure.

So. So that was a. You know, I think I had a lot to do with. With us kind of not fully driving. I think we drive in a lot of ways. And I really enjoyed the.

Yeah.

For a tour. And he pulled me aside one rehearsal, and he's like, dude, is this how it felt when you joined us? And I go, I think so.

If you're not feeling comfortable. And he looks at me and he goes, how the fuck did you do it? I go, I don't know, man.

It was just like he got a taste of what I went through joining them, you know, and, like, being in a band where half the audience is mad at you because you're not the guy who left and the other three hired. Yeah, we met at me for. I didn't force my way in here. That guy left, and these three fired me. But yet it's, fuck you, Dave. You know what I mean?

It was just. It was just not bizarre. Yeah, yeah. But that's, you know, that's how fans are. Whatever. I knew they're passionate. I, you know, I forgave it.

I understood it. But, like, it's just.

It's just, you know, hopping, especially hopping from one successful, you know, you know, moderately successful bandaid into a giant machine like, that was really tricky, and we had a lot of fun and we had a lot of great experiences, but a lot of it was really, really tough because, you know, like I said, everybody was kind of going through their own emotional transitions at the time. Then miracle, we got some stuff out, as we did. Sometimes I hear some of it, and I'm like, wow, this is actually pretty good.

Like, I forgot about this.

Don want that record?

Yeah. I mean. I mean, you know, it's.

It was such a. I mean, I was younger. I didn't have the same sort of. I was more just open. I mean, I don't know what I was open. It was like, yeah, I remember.

Yeah, I found that.

That people that weren't, like, into, um, you know, old school, original, die hard, funkadelic style, peppers, you know, uplift, mofo, and, you know, all those records which uplift might be my favorite record of theirs ever, but, you know, the ones that were just kind of coming of age and got that record, really love it. And the die hard fans prior to it didn't, you know, and it was just, you know, it was. It was. It was a tough time. But, you know, I learned a lot.

I experienced a lot. I grew a lot as a player, especially playing with those guys. And then being back in, and I will say we.

I a member of a cover band called Royal Machines, where we play with everyone under the sun. I mean, you name it. We played with, you know, Ann Wilson. We played with Lou Reed. We played with, you know, Stephen Tyler. Like, I mean, we got.

You gotta adjust your playing and learning for each one of these singers. And this is a band that's been going on for 20 years.

So learning how to kind of mold my playing to fit this particular vocalist or song or genre or whatever has, I would just say to anybody who's playing that wants to expand their playing, just play with as many musicians as you can.

Yeah.

You know, because you're gonna learn something.

Yeah.

And, you know, you can sit at home and watch YouTube videos all day, but until you play with somebody who wasn't watching those videos, then you know, you're not gonna expand. And so I'm lucky enough to have had that experience. Really grateful for it.

Yeah.

It makes you more versatile, makes you appreciate other styles as well. And I actually, I'm interested. I wouldn't have thought that.

It's.

It's interesting hearing you say that. Flea felt that way when he joined Jane's addiction for that tour.

But now that I think about it, also, he plays with his fingers and I associate James addiction is a pic based band.

It's exactly right. That's exactly what he was struggling with.

So what did he do to compensate then?

He played with his fingers.

He still just played with his fingers and just made it work.

I believe. I believe so. I believe so. I think there might have been a couple of songs that he used to pick on, but, like, mountain song or something.

Yeah, sure.

But for the. But for the most part, like, yeah, it's just like, that is the actual thing that he was talking about when he pulled me aside.

It's funny that you picked up on that.

Yeah. I mean, I didn't think about it at all until right now when you said that he was struggling with. I'm like, why would he struggle?

Then I'm like, oh, wait. I associate Jane's addiction as a pick based band, and that's not absolutely. Okay, so that makes a ton of sense now.

Yeah. And that, you know, and, you know, what is weird is that Eric and Flea have very similar backgrounds. You know, Eric was in a lot of punk rock bands.

Flea was in fear, for crying out loud, you know, like, it's like, as punk rock as it gets, and. But Eric happens to be a Peter Hook fan. Where I don't know that Flea is. Maybe he is. I don't know. But that's a very pick. Driven.

Yeah.

And melodic and memorable and hypnotic.

Sure.

You know, and that's. And that's what I think.

I think that's what Eric really loves, is when things get hypnotizing, you know, and that's where a lot of our velvet underground influences kind of come in, especially the. The Warhol with Niko album. You got Venus and furs, you got all tomorrow's parties.

You got these songs that just kind of like, are those vibes that are, like, seven minutes long and they just don't really change much. And they're just, you know, and they're just soundtracks, soundtrack material.

I love that kind of close things out. What are you most excited about what you're doing right now with both in your music and touring? Jane's addiction. I'm stoked for this lineup.

I can't wait to see it live. But what are you stoked about?

In the podcast. Daniel Ash is one of my favorite guitar players. I mean, without a doubt, you know? So, you know, I don't. I can't go on tour with Hendrix. I can't go.

It. It's. It's very unlikely that I'll go on tour with David Gilmore. I can't go on tour with Van Halen, but I can go on tour with Daniel Ash, you know?

And that's, you know, to me, it's just like, I couldn't ask for, you know, a better crash course in learning cool shit because he is really an innovative guitar player and has written some of the most iconic sounding material of all time, whether people know it or not. So that's. That's exciting. And so I think. I think that'll be a cool tour. And we've. We've known those guys since.

Since the eighties, so it's going to be like, you know, brotherhoods, mutual admiration, and a highly juxtaposed set, because they don't get that aggressive, and we get aggressive, but we also, you know, we also calm down quite a bit, you know? And I think. I think in the early days, we were compared to Led Zeppelin quite a bit. And I think that's why. I think that's why.

Because of the different temperatures that we were able to tap into, which is, hey, I'd much rather be compared to Led Zeppelin than, you know, a million other things.

You don't have to call anybody out right now. We don't want to get you.

I had one in mind, too, and I was like. I know.

I was like, oh, wait, wait, wait.

I can't say it. I can't say it. It's just been great talking to you. I really appreciate it, Cory.

Yeah.

Well, thank you so much. I'm excited to come see you out on the road sometime.

We'll get out, dude, anytime. Just hit me up personally, and I'll make sure it happens.

Awesome. Thank you, man. We'll see you soon.

Take it easy, man.

There you have it. Navarro.

Dude.

Navarro, thanks so much for hanging with us on the Wong Notes podcast. I really appreciate you being here.

It is really fun for me to do this podcast because a lot of these guitar players and musicians are people that I've just looked up to for years.

A lot of them are my friends and peers, and a lot of them are people that, honestly, I'm kind of unfamiliar with, but I've heard a lot about, and I'm curious, so I ask them questions about their artistry and what they do. If you haven't listened to us before. I've got a lot of episodes in the archives.

Just go scroll through.

There's a bunch of people from all different genres and instruments that I've interviewed, and I have a really good time doing it. So thanks for hanging. We'll see you next time.

Peace.