Goalchella:: The science behind "training like a girl" with Dr. Sam Moore (How to be adaptable, resilient, & attuned to our female physiology)

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Today, we're joined by an expert in an absolute light in the field

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of female physiology, training, and

performance, who studies how women can

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train more adaptably, tune into what

their bodies are capable of on any given

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day, and build strength, resilience,

and confidence by working with their

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physiology and what their bodies can do.

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Not focusing on what it

can't do and its limitations.

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She has her master's in Performance

Enhancement and Injury Prevention,

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her PhD in Human Movement Science.

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She's a professor in the Department

of Health and Exercise Science at

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the University of Oklahoma, and

her research focuses on female

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athlete performance and training.

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Welcome to Waldo's Big Assist the

Pod and our girl chat with Dr.

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Sam Moore.

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Kelsy: With the new year, a lot of girls

are rechecking in on their exercise

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routines and wondering is their current

exercise routine what they should be

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doing based on their female physiology?

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So let's maybe start there.

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What are some of your, let's call them

pillars I guess, that all women need

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to be focusing on during their exercise

training and overall exercise routines.

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Sam Moore: I think it really is about the

basics, the things that we hear a lot.

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It's important to have strength and

fitness or cardio components in there.

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I have been, you know, patient zero for

only focusing on one for a long time.

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After college I only lifted and

then, you know, there was a while

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where I have a Peloton in my

garage, so I would only do cardio.

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But having both in there is really

important when we think about

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the short-term benefits, but

then also the long-term benefits.

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I think also we hear a lot about

like the importance of consistency.

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I think that that is, it's an

important message and I agree, but

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sometimes I think that consistency,

for me at least, it requires being

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dynamic and making adjustments.

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And so, you know, when we think

about consistency, it's not

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always, you know, did I get five

training sessions in this week?

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It's thinking about over a month,

six month, a year, five year basis,

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am I able to maintain these habits?

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And so life goes up and down

and sometimes you have to adjust

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what you're doing in the gym.

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Sometimes you have to adjust when

you're going, how often you're going.

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And so I think, you know, giving yourself

some grace, but always having that.

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That kind of point of reflection of,

you know, how do I feel right now?

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What do I need to feel my best?

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And ultimately like that's

what exercise is, right?

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It's for us to feel our best

short term and long term.

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And so being dynamic about that

and kind of allowing space for

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adjustment is really important.

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I also think that because I've been

in and around sports and strength and

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conditioning for so long, I mean, both of

my parents were collegiate athletes and

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all Americans and coaches my entire life.

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And I, you know, grew up the gym.

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Sometimes take for granted talking

about like training literacy

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and having self-confidence in a

training or an exercise environment.

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And so I think that those are

privileges that I have growing

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up in the family that I did and.

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with the activities that we had, and

I started, strength and conditioning

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when I was 12, I think is when I

learned how to do Olympic lifts.

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And so I think that talking about

those things is really important.

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And so, you know, it's things like

finding, the value of a group class

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and the community aspect of it.

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Like we used to recruit so many women from

burn boot classes or bootcamp classes.

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And, you know, one woman would hear about

a study and then she would tell the whole

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class and then they would all come in.

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And so there's virtual

groups that you could do.

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But I think that finding the community

and that is really important, but

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also finding the right practitioner.

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you know, a lot of the

people that I work with.

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People that I talk to are mostly

strength and conditioning coaches

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from athletic environments.

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But the majority of my students wanna

go into, you know, general population,

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personal training or physical therapy.

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And so the right practitioner, you know,

if you wanna be a better volleyball

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player, you go get a volleyball coach.

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And for some reason, sometimes when

it comes to exercise and training,

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like, you know, we think that we don't

need that or maybe we don't see the

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value of it, or we don't know what

kind of resources are out there.

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But, you know, almost every gym

has personal training resources.

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And it doesn't mean that you'll need a

personal trainer forever, but I think

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that can be a really helpful way to

build some of that training literacy,

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kind of understand the gym environment.

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Having someone there alongside of

you to coach you is really important,

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especially, you know, as your goals

change throughout your life and finding

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the right kind of coach and practitioner

to guide you through some of those

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transitions can be really helpful.

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Kelsy: I love what you said that you're

patient, zero for yourself, because

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I think it's helpful to hear someone

who is such an expert in the realm of

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exercise physiology and training and

female physiology and performance, and

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I mean, you're looking at and studying

all of these elite athletes and the body

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on a deeper level, and yet here you are

telling us that sometimes it really is

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that softer side of exercise where it is.

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Trying different things with your own

body, experimenting, making sure you

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get the foundations of strength and

cardiovascular training, but being willing

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to be adaptable and, and sometimes,

like you said, with consistency,

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sometimes it does help to switch it

up, especially if you are getting tired

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of your current strength and cardio

mix where you're like, you know what?

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I'm not looking forward

to this as much anymore.

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That's gonna hurt my consistency.

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Let me rethink how I want to split

those ratios, or go join that group

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class or do something like that to

help with that consistency component.

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That is a true pillar that I

feel like a lot of us forget.

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We all think, especially as

people are listening to a health

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and wellness podcast, they're

like, okay, what can I do?

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How can I lift better?

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What about Pilates?

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What about all of these things?

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But it really can come down to, I

guess, a gentler form of self-care

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and just putting in some of those

pillars of strength training, of

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cardio training, not overthinking it.

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But thinking about what

can you be consistent with?

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And like you said, giving yourself

grace if you're not in the gym five

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days a week or four days a week

because you are a student or you

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do have kiddos or whatever it is.

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But I love that when I ask a question

about pillars and someone so involved

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in female physiology and training

and performance gives an answer that

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really is indicative of the, I guess,

more gentler approach and the softer

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side of exercise for us as women.

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Sam Moore: Yeah, I think also.

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We see it on all my feeds of, you know,

get fit and get tight or toned or like

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this and that, you know, like I'm getting

targeted ads and, you know, I understand

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why I would be the demographic for it.

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But, you know, the mindset shift

from when I retired as a competitive

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athlete was really hard for me.

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And I had to do a lot of reflection

and understanding of what does my body

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mean to me what has my body given me

and my relationship with my body and

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my physicality and things like that.

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I liked lifting a lot

'cause I was good at it.

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It's always fun to do

things that you're good at.

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But, you know, I lifted to be

a better volleyball player.

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And I didn't become a strength

coach because I love to deadlift.

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I became a strength coach because

my strength coaches gave my game

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back to me from the weight room.

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And so I liked that element of it and

the problem solving part of it, but

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I retired it, you know, it kind of

became like, what does movement mean

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to you and what is exercise to you?

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And so, you know, like if there's

days where I don't get, you know,

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my three lifts in, but you know, I

went and played open gym pickup in a

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men's volleyball league or joined a

basketball game or had a competitive

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round of pickleball with my husband.

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Like you know, kind of understanding

it from the holistic view.

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I think for me and where I'm

at in my life is important.

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So.

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Kelsy: You saying you are also being

patient zero and being able to see what

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your body is doing given the different

stimuli that you've placed on it, let's

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say from volleyball to Olympic lifting

to all of these different things.

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It really is looking at how cool

your body is able to adapt to

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whatever inputs you're giving it.

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I think that's been one of my

favorite things is noticing I can

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improve in this certain variable.

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If I alter my training in this

way, look what my body can do.

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And I think part of that helps

with that consistency component

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that you were talking about too.

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The reason.

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That I feel like a lot of young girls

train is either for their sport, like

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you were saying, you were training to

get better at volleyball, but then as

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soon as that goal is taken away, whether

through retirement or injury or something

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like that, or as soon as people's goals

of body composition changes, as soon as

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those start to not become as motivating

anymore, what are we relying on?

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And I feel like that's where that.

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Long-term health and wellness,

that mindset shift component comes

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into play where you're like, look

what my body has been able to do.

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look, what inputs I can give it

in order for it to do even greater

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things in other realms too.

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So I like the mindset shift and I

feel like that's super important,

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especially in the new year two, with

everyone thinking about their exercise

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goals and being so motivated now,

what is going to be that intrinsic

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motivator, that factor that keeps you

consistent with your exercise routine?

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And for me, I think mine mirrors yours.

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It's like, look what my body can do.

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Look what it's capable of doing.

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Look what I can do now to help

it long term in the future.

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Less so about current performance goals,

although those are great too, and less so

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right now about body composition goals.

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Again, those are also great too.

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But I think that long term, I

guess love of movement comes from

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realizing what it does for me, for

my body and for my health long term.

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Sam Moore: Completely.

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I also think like, on that, like,

I would love to say that, you know,

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when I get up in the morning a little

extra early to go to the weight

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room or hop on my bike in the garage

that I'm like, this is for health.

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it's because I'm so healthy and

I know how important health is.

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And in reality it's like I have to make

up crazy situations in my head that

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I'm like, in a bike race, like, I'm not

gonna do a bike race, but when I'm on

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that Peloton, I'm racing somebody, I'll

come in and I'll like really overdo it.

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My husband's like, what's wrong?

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I'm like, I just, saw somebody

on the leaderboard and I just

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decided to chase 'em today.

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And obviously I didn't get

there or whatever it is.

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But I think finding goals too.

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I like accomplishment.

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I love the grind for sure.

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Maybe a little bit too much sometimes.

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And finding new, tasks

to master fun to me.

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You know, I have a friend who

we were talking on the phone.

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She was like, yeah, I

joined this run club.

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I'm so nervous about it.

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And I was like, oh my God,

we've been friends for years.

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I had no idea you liked running like that.

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She was like, I don't.

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I don't like running.

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so I joined a run club.

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I'm like, I

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Kelsy: I love it.

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Sam Moore: or you know, friends that

like, I wanna learn how to Olympic

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lift or you know, I wanna play a

pickleball tournament or something.

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Like, you know, kind of figuring a

little bit about how your brain works

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can help so that in those moments

when you're like, I'm so tired, it's

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still dark out, I don't wanna get up,

I don't wanna do it, my back hurts.

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You know.

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some of those situational parts of chasing

down some new goals or learning a new

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skill, I think can be really exciting.

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And then I think also , , I've in

my older age had to be a little bit

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more cognizant of tracking like how

do I feel before I go and train or

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exercise and how do I feel after?

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And then sometimes you have to

kind of trick yourself into it.

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Like, you know, when you're tired at the

end of a long day, sometimes stopping off

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at the gym is the last thing you wanna

do, but if you know that you're gonna

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feel a little less exhausted after you

finish because you know what to do that

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day so that you don't feel as exhausted

that can be, you know, it seems a little

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counterintuitive upfront, but the more

kind of evidence you have to say, every

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time I'm tired and I go to the gym, I

can leave a little bit more energized.

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I think sometimes those things can

help bring up that motivation when

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it's not there to maintain consistency.

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Kelsy: I think that also leads well into

your concept of athlete availability.

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Can you dive into that a little bit

and how it might differ between your

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elite athletes and your collegiate

level athletes competing at the

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highest level compared to us who

are more sort of everyday athletes.

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Sam Moore: Yeah, so the concept of

availability we used to say it in

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strength and conditioning all the time

of like the best ability is availability.

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And essentially that just means, you

know, the more that an athlete is

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available to train and compete, the

better that they're gonna become.

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And then from the team aspect, like as

soon as one athlete gets hurt or, you

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know, needs modification in practice,

the demand of all the other athletes

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that are still on the field goes up.

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So, you know, we kind of look at it

as like a domino effect of the biggest

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predictor of injury is previous injury.

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And injury is the cause for like 80%

almost of athlete unavailability.

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So as soon as one athlete gets hurt.

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They've got an increased risk of

future injury, but then the load on

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everybody else at practice goes up.

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And so now the rest of the team

is a little bit more fatigued,

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their injury risk goes up.

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And so sometimes when you see teams

that are, you know, call it like

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bit by the injury bug, it's, it's

really a matter of availability.

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And so my dissertation, I wanted to

know kind of across a, a large cohort

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of female athletes and then specific

to sports, what are the factors that

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make a female athlete more resilient

to unavailability than others?

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and then, you know, long term, can we

start to use that for more like predictive

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modeling and then also for a strength

and conditioning coach, you know, when

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a freshman gets to campus, what testing

can we do and how can we kind of flag

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athletes that might be at risk of low

availability and improve some of the

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values that we know, make them more

resilient sooner so that we can, you know.

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Decrease the likelihood of

injury before we get there.

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And it was really interesting.

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So, you know, a lot of the

specific metrics were kind of

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different between sport types.

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But you know, when we think about how that

might be applied to general population,

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it was a really interesting question.

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No one's ever kind of

asked me to pause it.

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'cause I always think of, athlete

availability from a very scientific

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standpoint and then also like a

administrative of like load management.

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And from general population, I would say

it's kind of a combination of things we've

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talked about a little bit already of you

know, and motivation are two different

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things and sometimes we get them confused.

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We think that to be consistent,

we have to always be motivated.

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And that's really, you know, find one

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Kelsy: 1%

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Sam Moore: me.

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And it's not, it's nobody that I know.

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And so, you know, what are some strategies

that we can use in our life to maintain

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higher training availability, right?

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To be able to improve that

consistency of when we're exercising.

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I think a lot of it is planning, so

understanding, how you feel and, and

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when you feel certain things like,

you know, I know that I teach an 8:00

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AM class on Monday and Wednesday,

and usually that means I get to

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classrooms, especially if I'm teaching

a lab that day around like seven.

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So that means that if I'm gonna exercise,

you know, I need to maybe even be

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up as early as like four 30 instead

of my normal five or five 15 alarm.

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So by the end of the day, I'm a

little bit more exhausted than I am

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on a day when I don't have to be up

that early and I don't have to spend

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a few hours teaching in the morning.

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And so that means that I'm probably

gonna plan like my harder training days

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on Tuesday, Thursday, Fridays compared

to Monday, Wednesdays when I know I'm

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gonna be a little bit more tired or I'm

gonna bring a snack, an extra snack in,

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in the afternoon because I know that.

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Teaching is more

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Kelsy: Else.

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Sam Moore: you know, writing a research

grant or a paper or something like that.

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And so planning some of those

things is really helpful.

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But also what we were talking about

of kind of how do you feel before

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verse after and understanding

you know, that that attunement to

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biofeedback of, of how do I feel?

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So if I slept really poorly,

why did I sleep really poorly?

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And then what do I need in this

moment to feel my best or feel

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better than I currently do?

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And set myself up for tomorrow.

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And sometimes that is just

like to go home and go to bed.

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Like, there were days in my PhD where I

was up so early in the morning and had

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not a lot to give and, and by the time

the evening came around, the best thing

296

: 00:17:01

for me to do was just go home and go to

bed at 7:00 PM like, you know, it's, it's

297

: 00:17:06

that consistency requiring adjustment.

298

: 00:17:09

But I think it's starting to kind of track

some of those things of how do I feel?

299

: 00:17:12

Why do I feel that way?

300

: 00:17:13

And then how am I responding to

these different types of stimuli?

301

: 00:17:17

Right?

302

: 00:17:18

So, you know, if I were to go home and

do a 20 minute Peloton workout, how

303

: 00:17:21

do I feel after versus if I were to go

do maybe like a mobility flow session

304

: 00:17:25

in my living room or a full lift and,

and you know, how does my body respond

305

: 00:17:30

differently when I'm in different states?

306

: 00:17:32

And for me a lot of it is

based on my menstrual cycle.

307

: 00:17:35

Like I, you know, the week before

I start my period in my mid to late

308

: 00:17:39

luteal phase, it's rough for me.

309

: 00:17:41

Like, we used to make so many jokes

in, in the lab at UNC, it was a.

310

: 00:17:46

Almost all women lab at times.

311

: 00:17:48

And, you know, we always talked about

the luteal phase, like she was one of

312

: 00:17:51

our lab mates that we couldn't stand.

313

: 00:17:53

And for me that meant that, you know,

I, I needed to make sure that my

314

: 00:17:57

water was really on that I was getting

some movement throughout the day.

315

: 00:18:00

there's like a four to five day

block where I just feel awful and I

316

: 00:18:04

might get one workout in that block.

317

: 00:18:06

But getting a little bit more movement

throughout the day because I know

318

: 00:18:09

I'm not gonna have the energy to

go and do a really hard training

319

: 00:18:12

session at the end of the day.

320

: 00:18:13

So it is just kind of planning and

being aware of how your body responds,

321

: 00:18:18

and then understanding as you go what

things you need at different times.

322

: 00:18:23

Kelsy: I like how you

personify the luteal phase.

323

: 00:18:25

'cause I say in my back half, especially

like you said that week, or a few days

324

: 00:18:29

before, it's like, that's not real Kelsey.

325

: 00:18:32

You know, that's fake Kelsey.

326

: 00:18:33

We just, do what we can with fake

Kelsey until real Kelsey shows up

327

: 00:18:36

again and feels better after a workout.

328

: 00:18:39

That was me just last week.

329

: 00:18:40

My husband was like,

how did your workout go?

330

: 00:18:42

I was like, terrible.

331

: 00:18:43

But that was fake Kelsey.

332

: 00:18:44

that's expected at this time.

333

: 00:18:46

Sam Moore: Yeah, I do the same thing.

334

: 00:18:47

I'm like, well, if Ms.

335

: 00:18:49

Progesterone's here, like I'm gonna

need to set my alarm an hour later.

336

: 00:18:52

That is what I need, you know?

337

: 00:18:54

and I need a little bit more silent time.

338

: 00:18:56

And I need, you know, to not

have an attitude with myself.

339

: 00:19:00

I need to give myself a

little bit more grace.

340

: 00:19:02

I probably need to give a little

bit more grace to people around me.

341

: 00:19:05

but I think like so much of

that is just tracking it, right?

342

: 00:19:08

Like, before I used to track my

cycle I would've guessed that like

343

: 00:19:13

the worst time was during my period,

because that's what we're taught.

344

: 00:19:16

And in reality, it's actually usually not.

345

: 00:19:19

When you look at it from like an

objective recovery standpoint.

346

: 00:19:23

And so I think like the importance of

tracking it, I also, when I was kind

347

: 00:19:26

of younger in like my early twenties,

before I started learning or reading

348

: 00:19:30

about female physiology, I would have

these like emotional breakdowns very

349

: 00:19:36

consistently where I'd be like, I'm

24, I've got nothing to show for it.

350

: 00:19:40

I've accomplished nothing in my life.

351

: 00:19:42

I'm an embarrassment to my family.

352

: 00:19:45

I don't even know how they

let me keep the family name.

353

: 00:19:48

Like what have I done in my life?

354

: 00:19:49

What do I have to show for

these 24 years I've been alive?

355

: 00:19:52

And then I would start my period

like six days later and I'd be like,

356

: 00:19:56

oh, guess I have graduated college.

357

: 00:19:59

I guess I'm a good person.

358

: 00:20:00

Like I, you know, try to show up for

my friends or like, whatever it was.

359

: 00:20:05

And so like once I started to track it,

I was like, oh, that's actually not me.

360

: 00:20:09

That's not my feeling.

361

: 00:20:11

That is my luteal phase

when I'm having that.

362

: 00:20:13

And so then it became this thing of

like every time I would go to have

363

: 00:20:16

this like spiral of, I've accomplished

nothing in my life, I'd be like, no,

364

: 00:20:18

no, gonna revisit this in seven days.

365

: 00:20:21

And if you still feel that way, then we

can take it to the higher ups and maybe

366

: 00:20:26

talk to someone about, but like right

now, just give it a week and you're

367

: 00:20:30

probably not gonna feel like this.

368

: 00:20:31

And it allowed me to regulate it

to a level where like, I don't

369

: 00:20:34

struggle with that anymore.

370

: 00:20:36

And it was just from tracking it.

371

: 00:20:38

Kelsy: It goes back to your,

your giving your body grace.

372

: 00:20:40

'cause I experienced the same thing

where I, again, that's fake Kelsey.

373

: 00:20:44

That's saying those thoughts

though before, you know, it's

374

: 00:20:46

like, this isn't actually me.

375

: 00:20:47

There's so much negativity around

that phase mentally for me.

376

: 00:20:50

And then, you know, you're not

recovering well with exercise.

377

: 00:20:53

Your confidence is a little lower in

your body and in your exercise routine.

378

: 00:20:56

And so I think it's exactly as you

said, like learning your body from.

379

: 00:21:00

That standpoint really helps with

that consistency component when

380

: 00:21:04

you're like, why did that work out?

381

: 00:21:05

Feel like absolute crap.

382

: 00:21:06

Why am I so negative?

383

: 00:21:07

You can understand, oh, because my body's

literally going through this right now.

384

: 00:21:11

It's not that I just need to be lazy

and veg, although maybe sometimes you

385

: 00:21:16

do and,, learning that helps with,

I guess, understanding how available

386

: 00:21:20

you are to show up for yourself

in that way with exercise, but.

387

: 00:21:24

Also like, okay, this workout might not

feel the best after and that's okay.

388

: 00:21:29

I can, I can modify and adapt and do what

I can to show up for that consistency.

389

: 00:21:34

The Peloton was huge for me actually.

390

: 00:21:36

'cause they had those like five or 10

minute workouts and it would be like,

391

: 00:21:38

okay, let me show up for five minutes.

392

: 00:21:40

And then it'd be like, you

know what, I can add a 15.

393

: 00:21:43

I feel like that's something that

has really helped me is like, let

394

: 00:21:45

me do one set of all of my exercises

and if I still feel like it, if it

395

: 00:21:50

motivates me to continue, great.

396

: 00:21:52

If not, nope, no pressure.

397

: 00:21:54

You know, I can stop

that workout right there.

398

: 00:21:55

And the same thing

happened with the Peloton.

399

: 00:21:57

If it was like after five minutes

I was like, Nope, not today.

400

: 00:22:00

Then it was like, okay,

you're good Kelsey.

401

: 00:22:02

Good job for showing up for five minutes.

402

: 00:22:04

Sam Moore: You know what, I actually

literally just experienced that

403

: 00:22:07

this morning, I've been pretty sick

over the last, couple months and

404

: 00:22:11

I haven't lifted as much, and so,

you know, I've got some smaller.

405

: 00:22:15

at home.

406

: 00:22:15

so I've been doing kind of like a circuit

that I've been building up in volume.

407

: 00:22:19

the last couple times I've done it,

I'm like, oh my God, this feels awful.

408

: 00:22:22

I'm sore the next day

from a kettlebell squat.

409

: 00:22:26

What's going on?

410

: 00:22:27

Today, for the first time I

worked up to like four sets.

411

: 00:22:29

by the third, set.

412

: 00:22:31

I was like, oh, I feel good.

413

: 00:22:32

Maybe the hump is that third set.

414

: 00:22:34

And once I get past

that, I feel really good.

415

: 00:22:36

so maybe that's my new bare minimum

I need to do at least three sets and

416

: 00:22:41

then make the decision if I still

feel awful and this is gonna put me

417

: 00:22:44

further in the tank call it a day.

418

: 00:22:46

this morning, I feel a lot better.

419

: 00:22:47

I can go heavier, I can do more.

420

: 00:22:49

Kelsy: Through all of this, I think

it's really cool just to hear someone

421

: 00:22:51

who has all of this background and

knowledge to realize like it still takes

422

: 00:22:55

experimentation and that never stops.

423

: 00:22:57

And that should be something that we

look at that's like really freaking

424

: 00:23:00

cool, that we're learning something

new about our bodies every single day.

425

: 00:23:04

And there's different tools and different

ways we can look at our bodies through

426

: 00:23:09

certain lenses and look at our training

through certain lenses in order to try

427

: 00:23:13

and help it in a certain way, but that

we're constantly sort of evolving.

428

: 00:23:17

Based on just who we are as

people, but then also obviously

429

: 00:23:20

our female physiology too.

430

: 00:23:21

Like we're, we're never

this static creature.

431

: 00:23:25

I guess, that the same thing is

gonna work for us all the time.

432

: 00:23:28

We have to be adaptable, and it's

really good to be adaptable because

433

: 00:23:33

I've noticed with my body, if I stick

to, let's just say three days of

434

: 00:23:36

strength training, I love hill sprints.

435

: 00:23:38

two days of hill sprints

or whatever it is.

436

: 00:23:40

All of a sudden I'm like, you know what?

437

: 00:23:41

I'm getting tired of this.

438

: 00:23:42

Let me switch.

439

: 00:23:43

I notice my body responds better to

that switch because there's started

440

: 00:23:46

to be a little bit of a plateau.

441

: 00:23:47

And so I feel like it's this nice

fluidity that we can work with within

442

: 00:23:52

our exercise routines and giving

ourselves grace and not being so,

443

: 00:23:55

regimented with it all the time.

444

: 00:23:57

Sam Moore: Couldn't agree more.

445

: 00:23:58

and I also think for me what I need

for my body has changed, right?

446

: 00:24:03

So like when I was a collegiate

athlete, I needed my body to jump high

447

: 00:24:07

and hit the ball hard and run fast.

448

: 00:24:09

And you know, for a long time my

body was what got me opportunity.

449

: 00:24:14

It got me a college scholarship.

450

: 00:24:16

It got me, you know, the ability

to travel and to meet all my

451

: 00:24:20

friends and do all these things.

452

: 00:24:22

And then, you know, when

I had to retire, it was.

453

: 00:24:25

Figuring out, okay, what does

my body need from me now?

454

: 00:24:28

What do I need from my body?

455

: 00:24:30

And you know, kind of changing

that mindset to think of my body a

456

: 00:24:35

little bit more as like a vessel.

457

: 00:24:37

And then going from being a strength

and conditioning coach where, you're

458

: 00:24:40

on your feet and you're moving around

and you're doing demos and things to,

459

: 00:24:44

being a PhD student really challenging

because, you're not taking nearly as

460

: 00:24:48

many steps every day and you're not

in a weight room and you're sitting at

461

: 00:24:52

your computer for a long time in a way

that I had never experienced before.

462

: 00:24:57

And so, figuring out like, well, now it's

463

: 00:25:01

Kelsy: Hours

464

: 00:25:02

Sam Moore: that is getting me

places and, and opportunities.

465

: 00:25:06

And so what does my body need when it's

not kind of my only priority anymore?

466

: 00:25:13

that was like a really unique challenge

because then, you know, it becomes

467

: 00:25:16

like, oh, my body hurts and my body is

tired, and I sat on my computer for 15

468

: 00:25:20

hours today and wrote my dissertation.

469

: 00:25:22

Like, how is that even possible?

470

: 00:25:24

And so figuring out, to your point of

like being really dynamic and flexible

471

: 00:25:28

of not just, know, like moving or like,

you know, kind of changing the training,

472

: 00:25:34

but also being cognizant, like for me,

I probably should be a little bit more

473

: 00:25:38

Kelsy: more friend like.

474

: 00:25:39

Sam Moore: I don't know why my

back has been hurting for a year.

475

: 00:25:42

I have no idea.

476

: 00:25:43

So sometimes I like really have to

like suffer the consequences for a

477

: 00:25:46

while before I'm forced to adapt.

478

: 00:25:48

But yeah, I think that part's been

really interesting for me in a way that

479

: 00:25:52

I wouldn't have predicted that that was

something that I had to kind of work

480

: 00:25:56

through and work out during my shift

of going from coaching to research.

481

: 00:26:02

Kelsy: I love how we have similar views

on what our body is and what our brains

482

: 00:26:05

are used for and think about that

deeper purpose as what does movement and

483

: 00:26:10

what does all that goes into movement.

484

: 00:26:12

Even if it is sitting for absorbing

information for your PhD, or you

485

: 00:26:18

were looking at it from volleyball.

486

: 00:26:19

I look at it even from a physical

therapy standpoint, I look at

487

: 00:26:22

a lot of people's functions.

488

: 00:26:23

So it's like, you know, hugging your loved

ones, your body allows you to do that.

489

: 00:26:28

So I feel like I am, mirrored

with your views, I guess, of.

490

: 00:26:32

Thinking on a deeper level, what does my

body need right now in order to help me

491

: 00:26:39

with whatever function or goals I have?

492

: 00:26:42

Whether it is for your strength and

conditioning job, whether it's for being

493

: 00:26:47

a student and making sure your brain

was healthy for learning all of the

494

: 00:26:50

information and just thinking, I guess a

little bit outside of what everyone thinks

495

: 00:26:56

of as movement and exercise, building

muscle and bone marrow density and all of

496

: 00:27:00

these things and cardiovascular health.

497

: 00:27:01

Yes.

498

: 00:27:02

But what are your greater goals

and greater reasons for that?

499

: 00:27:05

And that's where that adaptability

might have to come in.

500

: 00:27:08

Sam Moore: Yeah, no, I agree.

501

: 00:27:09

I think I've talked about this example

on a podcast before, but I remember

502

: 00:27:13

when our athletes came back from

being home for COVID and they were

503

: 00:27:17

taking classes online and then when

classes switched to in-person we saw

504

: 00:27:21

a massive uptick in their fatigue.

505

: 00:27:24

one of the athletic trainers was like,

you should look at their Apple watches and

506

: 00:27:26

see how many steps a day they're getting.

507

: 00:27:28

it was because the change in taking

classes in their dorm room to

508

: 00:27:32

taking classes in person was like an

extra three miles of walking a day.

509

: 00:27:38

I was lucky that the strength coaches

that I trained under when I was younger

510

: 00:27:41

were really holistic in their view of

the athlete as, this holistic system.

511

: 00:27:45

thinking about the global load and

what that looks like I just got an

512

: 00:27:48

alert from my ordering the other day

that was talking about how my training

513

: 00:27:52

Kelsy: Training.

514

: 00:27:53

Sam Moore: is really good but my

daily movement isn't good and my

515

: 00:27:56

inactivity every day isn't good.

516

: 00:27:58

And so I was thinking to myself of

like, man, if I didn't know how physical

517

: 00:28:04

activity and exercise are different, that

would be such a confusing thing to hear.

518

: 00:28:09

But it makes a lot of sense of

like, yeah, I can, get up every day

519

: 00:28:13

a little extra early and do a bike

workout or stop by the weight room.

520

: 00:28:16

But, you know, am I gonna make 20

minutes a couple times in my day to

521

: 00:28:20

go for a little walk around campus?

522

: 00:28:21

Like, eh.

523

: 00:28:22

You know, maybe not, but

probably should think about it.

524

: 00:28:25

So, yeah, I think looking at the body as

this holistic system is really important.

525

: 00:28:30

Kelsy: So you've mentioned, and we've

talked about the menstrual cycle earlier,

526

: 00:28:33

but I think you have one of the, I

guess, most unique and really one of

527

: 00:28:38

the coolest views, I think, on learning

about the menstrual cycle and maybe

528

: 00:28:42

making it a little bit more fluid versus

very specific, Phases that you look at,

529

: 00:28:48

Can you dive into that a little bit?

530

: 00:28:49

And then how our exercise and training

and what we think about might evolve over

531

: 00:28:56

that fluidity of the menstrual cycle?

532

: 00:28:58

Sam Moore: Yeah, I think part of it came

from, I had questions about when I was

533

: 00:29:04

training my female athletes compared

to my male athletes, and I felt like

534

: 00:29:07

their adaptations were different.

535

: 00:29:09

And originally it started particularly

around puberty of how my female athletes

536

: 00:29:14

were responding to puberty and training

during puberty and my male athletes.

537

: 00:29:18

And the timeline seemed different to me.

538

: 00:29:20

so I started to look into it.

539

: 00:29:22

And I think, you know, this is, I

don't have to tell you this, but

540

: 00:29:26

you know, it's a quite contentious

topic, a controversial topic.

541

: 00:29:30

And I think that's because it's really

hard to describe the nuance when we're

542

: 00:29:36

just, you know, in like 180 character

tweet you, you can't really convey,

543

: 00:29:41

you know, a decade of experience into

one little tweet or a tweet thread.

544

: 00:29:46

But I think it comes down

to like, what's the goal?

545

: 00:29:50

Right.

546

: 00:29:50

And so a lot of the confusion

is around the difference between

547

: 00:29:54

acute performance and capacity for

adaptation or, training adaptations.

548

: 00:29:59

And so almost all of the data that we

have, they say that women can perform

549

: 00:30:05

at the level that they need to on

any day of their menstrual cycle.

550

: 00:30:08

And I

551

: 00:30:10

Kelsy: I would agree.

552

: 00:30:11

Sam Moore: in my personal

experience as an athlete and

553

: 00:30:13

the athletes that I've coached.

554

: 00:30:14

But when it comes to training,

particularly from like a strength

555

: 00:30:18

and conditioning standpoint, you're

taught a system, we call it like

556

: 00:30:21

the fitness and fatigue model.

557

: 00:30:23

And so you're balancing how much

stress you put on the system and

558

: 00:30:26

then allowing the system to recover.

559

: 00:30:29

And that's what creates that compensation.

560

: 00:30:31

So, you know, you have the system

lift the heavy weight, and then.

561

: 00:30:36

There's this inflammation

that the alarm period, right?

562

: 00:30:39

And then the body responds and so it,

it adapts and it grows stronger so that

563

: 00:30:43

then, you know, your baseline is higher.

564

: 00:30:45

Right?

565

: 00:30:45

That, that's kind of the general

adaptation syndrome, and then

566

: 00:30:48

the fitness and fatigue theory.

567

: 00:30:50

And so when we're learning about that

as undergrads and even as like master's

568

: 00:30:55

students, you're learning about it through

this lens of essentially male physiology

569

: 00:31:01

of like, we're always assuming that,

you know, the first starting default.

570

: 00:31:05

Physiological state is stable and

that it's ready and it's recovered.

571

: 00:31:10

And, and I think that's the

part that, that is different.

572

: 00:31:13

There's a lot of direct and

indirect effects of female sex

573

: 00:31:16

hormones, but it's that capacity

for adaptation that can change.

574

: 00:31:21

But I think even within that,

it's very nuanced in terms of

575

: 00:31:24

like, again, the global load.

576

: 00:31:26

So when we're talking about changing

our training across the menstrual

577

: 00:31:30

cycle, there's two kind of ways

it's been evaluated in research.

578

: 00:31:33

And the first way, the more

common way is changing frequency.

579

: 00:31:36

So training more frequently in the

follicular phase and then lifting

580

: 00:31:41

less frequently in the luteal phase

has shown greater adaptations of

581

: 00:31:45

hypertrophy and strength outcomes.

582

: 00:31:47

Kelsy: Like, I don't think

that, that's crazy strategy.

583

: 00:31:50

Sam Moore: I, especially for

general population, especially

584

: 00:31:53

knowing like sometimes how bad we

can feel during our luteal phase.

585

: 00:31:57

Again, the research doesn't say

that a woman can't go lift or

586

: 00:32:00

that she's not gonna get benefit

from lifting in the luteal phase.

587

: 00:32:03

It's just to say that, you know, some

of the direct and indirect mechanisms

588

: 00:32:07

of those female sex hormones allow

for greater hypertrophy and strength

589

: 00:32:11

adaptations in the follicular phase.

590

: 00:32:14

Now again, with that being said,

there's also this second kind of

591

: 00:32:18

modification where in a team setting,

I can't tell half of my volleyball

592

: 00:32:22

team like, you're gonna come in every

other day this week, and the other

593

: 00:32:24

half you're gonna come in once a week.

594

: 00:32:26

And so that's when I had the idea of

instead of changing the frequency,

595

: 00:32:30

can I change the training variable?

596

: 00:32:33

So, you know, in strength and

conditioning in the modern

597

: 00:32:36

day and elite level athletics.

598

: 00:32:38

They're all on

599

: 00:32:39

Kelsy: All three,

600

: 00:32:40

Sam Moore: programs.

601

: 00:32:40

Like

602

: 00:32:41

Kelsy: like

603

: 00:32:41

Sam Moore: all

604

: 00:32:41

Kelsy: Mom got dinner.

605

: 00:32:42

Sam Moore: rep maxes, they've all got

different, you know, key performance

606

: 00:32:45

indicators that they're trying to improve

with returning some athletes from a

607

: 00:32:49

concussion or an ACL or a shoulder

surgery or a bone stress injury.

608

: 00:32:54

Or I've got freshmen that have never

been in the weight room before.

609

: 00:32:56

Like they've all got these different

variables that we're modulating to

610

: 00:32:59

get them where they need to go with

respect to this greater annual plan

611

: 00:33:03

of like, are we in season and they're

in practice for, you know, 12 hours a

612

: 00:33:08

week and they're lifting once or twice?

613

: 00:33:10

Are we in the off season and

they're lifting, you know, with me

614

: 00:33:13

for six hours a week or, you know,

all of those things go into it.

615

: 00:33:17

But how you design this training program.

616

: 00:33:19

It's not to.

617

: 00:33:20

account for this acute

performance every day.

618

: 00:33:23

And so I think that's

a common misconception.

619

: 00:33:25

It's to balance the amount of load and

the amount of stress you're putting on

620

: 00:33:29

the system and allowing for recovery.

621

: 00:33:30

And so, you know, if you have an athlete,

like in volleyball, if I had a setter that

622

: 00:33:34

had 350 jumps in a five step match last

night, I'm not gonna bring her in the next

623

: 00:33:39

morning for, you know, a max power lift.

624

: 00:33:41

Right?

625

: 00:33:42

her system is inflamed, it's in the

stress state or the alarm state.

626

: 00:33:46

And so it's kind of similar

with the menstrual cycle.

627

: 00:33:48

Like there are times when at default

we just, we have higher inflammation.

628

: 00:33:52

And it's not that, you know, we're

gonna not get any adaptation over it.

629

: 00:33:57

it's kind of just thinking

about the menstrual cycle state

630

: 00:34:01

as another guiding variable.

631

: 00:34:03

And so, some of the things to

consider are like, you know, what

632

: 00:34:06

are the training goals, right?

633

: 00:34:08

What's the training age like?

634

: 00:34:09

if it's a really young

training age, it doesn't.

635

: 00:34:12

Really matter what program you

put in front of it, like the

636

: 00:34:14

athlete's gonna adapt to it.

637

: 00:34:16

You know, the population part

of it is really important.

638

: 00:34:19

Like, I don't my training across the

menstrual cycle because I don't really

639

: 00:34:24

need to, like, I'm not training at a clip

where it's gonna impact my adaptation.

640

: 00:34:30

Like I'm, you know, doing, you

said, three to four Peloton rides

641

: 00:34:33

a week, two to three lifts a week,

three would be ideal and amazing.

642

: 00:34:38

And my schedule really allows for it.

643

: 00:34:40

Two is probably more

realistic most of the time.

644

: 00:34:43

Like that's not a training.

645

: 00:34:45

Schedule that's gonna totally deplete

my gas tank where I'm not gonna adapt.

646

: 00:34:49

And so understanding what

is that training age?

647

: 00:34:52

What's the population here?

648

: 00:34:53

What are the training goals?

649

: 00:34:54

What's the current global

demand on that system?

650

: 00:34:57

and understanding that kind of

effect of training and the importance

651

: 00:35:01

of that long-term consistency.

652

: 00:35:03

And so, if we're thinking about it in

more of a general population context

653

: 00:35:07

if training less frequently in your

luteal phase, like only once or twice

654

: 00:35:11

a week and training every other day

in your follicular phase, if that

655

: 00:35:15

makes it more feasible for you to go,

because that's when you feel energy and

656

: 00:35:19

this is when you feel fatigue, then.

657

: 00:35:21

the next six months to a year.

658

: 00:35:22

If it's going to maintain

your consistency, then I

659

: 00:35:25

think you should try it.

660

: 00:35:26

I don't think that we have to be pushed

into the rigidity and the polarization

661

: 00:35:31

because sometimes the instruction

of it should be individualized.

662

: 00:35:34

Well, all training

should be individualized.

663

: 00:35:37

for strength and conditioning at the elite

athlete level, it all is individualized.

664

: 00:35:41

And so understanding as one individual,

how do I feel at these different times?

665

: 00:35:46

How does my body respond

to these different types

666

: 00:35:48

of sessions at these times?

667

: 00:35:50

And then, in the acute

term, do I feel better?

668

: 00:35:54

Do I feel worse after

these training sessions?

669

: 00:35:55

And in the long term,

am I reaching my goals?

670

: 00:35:58

Am I able to maintain the

consistency of training patterns

671

: 00:36:00

over six months to a year?

672

: 00:36:02

I think that can be a better place

to start than being forced into

673

: 00:36:05

these kind of rigid structures.

674

: 00:36:08

Kelsy: I love the fluidity and

I love too how you focus on what

675

: 00:36:12

our bodies can do and have more

capacity to do during certain phases.

676

: 00:36:17

like you said, train more

frequently in the earlier

677

: 00:36:19

phases versus the later phases.

678

: 00:36:21

That's okay.

679

: 00:36:21

And we can maximize what our bodies

can do versus saying we should limit

680

: 00:36:25

something because our bodies can't do it.

681

: 00:36:27

That's not true.

682

: 00:36:28

We can do it.

683

: 00:36:29

Like you said, women can perform at

that level, whatever it needs to be.

684

: 00:36:33

But when we talk about day-to-day

consistency and day-to-day training and

685

: 00:36:37

things, I like that you focus on what

can we do, what can we get our bodies

686

: 00:36:41

to do in that phase to maximize it,

and what might we need to, pull back

687

: 00:36:45

from, because maybe we need a little

bit longer recovery or I adapt load.

688

: 00:36:51

Typically in my luteal phase, I'm not

necessarily a frequency person, but

689

: 00:36:54

I found that load modifications, I'm

definitely not gonna be lifting as heavy.

690

: 00:36:58

I might not be doing as

much single leg work.

691

: 00:37:00

I'm just basically showing up.

692

: 00:37:02

and it's not really for any other

reason than have that consistency.

693

: 00:37:06

I'm not necessarily going after a

certain goal with my training at

694

: 00:37:09

that point, it's more of just like.

695

: 00:37:11

showing to myself that I do have

that ability and that capability

696

: 00:37:16

to exercise and to move and to work

towards my body and my health in that

697

: 00:37:20

way, versus focusing on a certain

objective measurement or training goal.

698

: 00:37:25

Sam Moore: Absolutely.

699

: 00:37:25

And I think, like, you know, I've had

athletes where they, you know, in the

700

: 00:37:31

luteal phase when they're so tired to

prepare themselves for, you know, a

701

: 00:37:36

practice or something like, they were

like, I need to come in and lift heavy.

702

: 00:37:39

I'm like, okay, if you feel

great, like, let's do it.

703

: 00:37:42

Maybe let's cut the reps down based

on like what your whoop says you slept

704

: 00:37:45

last night or something like that, or

your, you know, your readiness score.

705

: 00:37:49

But if you wanna come in and lift

heavy, then let's set you up to do that.

706

: 00:37:53

And so.

707

: 00:37:54

Is kind of figuring out like, you

know, what's familiar for, for the

708

: 00:37:58

individual and, and what makes them feel

successful and then what's unfamiliar.

709

: 00:38:02

And so, you know, usually I would

try to like give them, progress

710

: 00:38:05

them in, in whatever capacity

is familiar for them first.

711

: 00:38:09

And then, you know, once you build

some trust, then you can start to

712

: 00:38:12

progress some of the qualities that

are a little more uncomfortable

713

: 00:38:14

and a little more unfamiliar.

714

: 00:38:15

Like, you know, when I worked

with volleyball, volleyball was

715

: 00:38:17

ready to lift heavy all the time.

716

: 00:38:19

They were not gonna wanna do more

than five reps, but they could

717

: 00:38:23

deadlift a house for soccer.

718

: 00:38:25

They were like, I don't even wanna

look at the 20 plus dumbbells.

719

: 00:38:30

Okay, I am gonna stay down here with my

fifteens, but I'll do a million reps.

720

: 00:38:34

And so, you know, building up their

volume first and then kind of bringing it

721

: 00:38:39

back and pushing the weight was a way to

like, you know, get a little buy-in, show

722

: 00:38:44

a little trust and it is figuring out.

723

: 00:38:47

What makes them feel successful,

especially when you're like

724

: 00:38:50

in an in-season context where

lifting is not the priority.

725

: 00:38:53

Right.

726

: 00:38:54

It's very supplementary.

727

: 00:38:55

it's not a huge amount of the week.

728

: 00:38:57

When you're in the off season, you're

obviously spending much more time in

729

: 00:39:00

the weight room, and so lifting is a

much higher priority during that window.

730

: 00:39:05

And so, you know, that's the

time when you're really chasing

731

: 00:39:07

some of those bigger adaptations.

732

: 00:39:10

But you know, to your point of, you

know, if a load is the thing that you

733

: 00:39:13

adjust and, you know, by adjusting load,

it means that you're able to train,

734

: 00:39:18

maintain your frequency over a six

month period, you're gonna get stronger.

735

: 00:39:22

And so, yeah, I mean, I think it

really depends on what's the goal

736

: 00:39:25

that you're chasing and, what's the

thing that you wanna improve, and

737

: 00:39:28

then gonna allow you to train at

the level where you can achieve it.

738

: 00:39:33

Kelsy: And stay consistent with it,

like you said, as, I mean, this is.

739

: 00:39:36

Aside from, like you

said, performance goals.

740

: 00:39:39

I mean, if you're a marathon training,

if you're doing things like that, if you

741

: 00:39:41

have this specific date and end goal in

mind, things are gonna shift a little

742

: 00:39:44

bit, and I'm sure your recommendations

might shift a little bit, but for

743

: 00:39:48

someone who is just looking for, I guess,

overall health improvements in whatever

744

: 00:39:54

metric that means for you, whether

it is cardiovascular capacity or body

745

: 00:39:59

composition or whatever, I feel like

exactly as you said, being adaptable and

746

: 00:40:02

understanding that one training session or

one week during your menstrual cycle where

747

: 00:40:09

you have to decrease frequency because

that's just what your body feels best at,

748

: 00:40:12

is not going to derail you completely.

749

: 00:40:15

It is about learning what fits for

your body, your schedule, and also

750

: 00:40:19

giving your body, like you said

earlier, giving it grace because.

751

: 00:40:23

For me, I have learned, and I actually

really like when I get to adjust

752

: 00:40:26

load in my luteal phase, 'cause I'm

like, oh my gosh, thank goodness.

753

: 00:40:29

You know, it's sort of this time where

I can just focus on form or some of the

754

: 00:40:32

other qualities where I've learned to

give my body grace, even if I can't, go

755

: 00:40:37

as hard as I do in my follicular phase.

756

: 00:40:39

So that, that's been a

learning process for me too.

757

: 00:40:41

Sam Moore: For sure.

758

: 00:40:42

And I think like there's also a number of

people and I think there are times when I

759

: 00:40:46

definitely fall into this category where

like maintaining the frequency is like.

760

: 00:40:51

A matter of like mental health.

761

: 00:40:52

Like that's like, that's my

mental health break for the day.

762

: 00:40:55

I'm gonna go, nobody can text me,

nobody can call me, nobody needs me.

763

: 00:40:59

I don't have to be social, I don't

have to do chats, you know, I used

764

: 00:41:03

to live here on campus and then

I was like, I don't wanna be Dr.

765

: 00:41:06

Moore for like an hour.

766

: 00:41:07

Like I just wanna be

another person at the gym.

767

: 00:41:10

And so, you know, I go to a gym

off campus now and it's great.

768

: 00:41:13

Like, I go really early in the

morning, I can go whenever I want

769

: 00:41:16

and it gives me kind of that break.

770

: 00:41:18

And so, you know, there are times when

being able to maintain that consistency

771

: 00:41:23

and like, go in on my luteal phase

maybe and, and lift heavy and like

772

: 00:41:28

do my program and feel really good

about like, checking that box today.

773

: 00:41:31

it is being dynamic and

figuring out you need.

774

: 00:41:35

And I think also, you know, I have been

training for a long time, but that's a

775

: 00:41:39

big part of it too, of like, you know,

the longer that you've been training

776

: 00:41:42

and, and the higher level that you are

at, which I would not say I'm at a high

777

: 00:41:45

level at the moment it, it's going to,

you know, some of those smaller tweaks

778

: 00:41:50

and variables are gonna be required.

779

: 00:41:52

So, you know, when I'm working with

general population, I would say,

780

: 00:41:55

like, I don't think it's necessary.

781

: 00:41:57

it is dependent on how you

feel and what you need.

782

: 00:41:59

And sometimes working with those higher

level athletes that have been training

783

: 00:42:03

for 20 plus years, like they're so

close to their athletic ceiling of

784

: 00:42:07

what their body can ultimately do, that

sometimes some of those smaller tweaks

785

: 00:42:11

make really small changes that make a

big difference in the scheme of their

786

: 00:42:15

sport performance and their career.

787

: 00:42:17

Kelsy: let's bring it back to

the familiar versus unfamiliar.

788

: 00:42:19

I feel like a lot of us are familiar

with some of the typical mantras that

789

: 00:42:23

we hear that we are now realizing

are based on the male physiology

790

: 00:42:28

versus the female physiology.

791

: 00:42:29

So thinking things like fasting

and intermittent fasting.

792

: 00:42:34

Cardio for fat loss.

793

: 00:42:35

I'm doing an air quotes

as cardio burns fat.

794

: 00:42:38

Those sorts of things I feel like

have been based on a physiology

795

: 00:42:42

that is different than ours.

796

: 00:42:43

And a lot of girls, I still feel

like look to those mantras and those

797

: 00:42:49

ideas for reaching different body

composition and aesthetic goals.

798

: 00:42:53

And I guess just to standardize language,

like you said earlier, like this toned

799

: 00:42:57

look, let's call it, you know, increasing

muscle mass and decreasing fat mass.

800

: 00:43:01

'cause I feel like that's what a

lot of people are after if they have

801

: 00:43:05

body composition goals or at least

the everyday athlete is after when

802

: 00:43:08

it comes to body composition goals.

803

: 00:43:10

So can you talk a little bit about just

how our bodies as women differ from

804

: 00:43:16

maybe a metabolic standpoint when it

comes to something like body composition

805

: 00:43:20

compared to the male physiology?

806

: 00:43:23

Sam Moore: So the process of losing

fat and gaining muscle, we call it

807

: 00:43:26

body recomposition, and it's quite

hard to be totally honest with you.

808

: 00:43:30

When you think about like, what are

the physiological systems or processes

809

: 00:43:34

that are required to lose fat mass,

and then what are the systems and

810

: 00:43:39

processes required to gain muscle mass?

811

: 00:43:41

they're kind of in opposition.

812

: 00:43:43

And so it is challenging.

813

: 00:43:44

it's a challenging thing to do

and that's why sometimes looking

814

: 00:43:46

at it through too small of a lens

timeline wise can be difficult.

815

: 00:43:50

in.

816

: 00:43:51

What we see, and I think we see it play

out in person is that systems, bodies

817

: 00:43:58

are more sensitive to low calorie intake.

818

: 00:44:01

And so looking at energy availability

and the threshold at which we see kind

819

: 00:44:06

of hormonal dysfunction happen because

we know now that, you know, reds

820

: 00:44:10

relative energy deficiency in sport.

821

: 00:44:12

This mismatch of calories in

and calories expended, it can

822

: 00:44:15

happen to male and females.

823

: 00:44:17

And there's health consequences

and performance consequences.

824

: 00:44:20

But I think because of some of the kind

of prior work on the female athlete triad,

825

: 00:44:24

we really focus on the female part of it.

826

: 00:44:26

But it can happen to both.

827

: 00:44:27

And in reality.

828

: 00:44:29

the threshold of energy

availability that it can happen

829

: 00:44:33

at for females is much sooner.

830

: 00:44:35

And so we are more sensitive

to that low calorie intake.

831

: 00:44:39

And there's even been some really

interesting research that talks about

832

: 00:44:42

within day low carbohydrate availability.

833

: 00:44:45

And so, you know, the, fasted exercises

is always tough because I think, it's easy

834

: 00:44:51

to talk about what we know from science,

but also life is hard and there are some

835

: 00:44:55

warnings, like usually if I don't get

my training in before eight 30 in the

836

: 00:45:00

morning, it's unlikely to happen at all.

837

: 00:45:03

but sometimes when I get up at five,

Food is the last thing I want to eat.

838

: 00:45:07

and, you know, I forgot to pick up my

protein shakes at the store and I don't

839

: 00:45:11

wanna have to eat a banana, or all I

have, is a sourdough English muffin

840

: 00:45:15

and I'm not gonna down that before

I go ride the bike for 45 minutes.

841

: 00:45:18

And so I'll just put some, electrolytes

in my water and it's not ideal, but I

842

: 00:45:22

think the balance of science in real life.

843

: 00:45:24

So I think that's a big caveat.

844

: 00:45:26

But, in the science perspective, the

within day low carbohydrate availability

845

: 00:45:31

is really negative for females in

a way that it doesn't affect male

846

: 00:45:35

physiology in quite the same way.

847

: 00:45:36

So there's some research that says

even just going like two hours without

848

: 00:45:41

carbohydrate availability, so with like

low blood sugar can be enough to start to

849

: 00:45:44

induce some of the hormonal dysfunction.

850

: 00:45:46

So, you know, I think when we're

talking about like what are the

851

: 00:45:50

differences metabolically, you know,

not eating enough calories and metabolic

852

: 00:45:54

suppression with Females is, much bigger

issue because we don't have as much

853

: 00:45:58

resiliency to that, the carbohydrates.

854

: 00:46:01

So like you know, I grew up as a kid in

a time of like a very anti carb life.

855

: 00:46:06

You know, it was like, I think it was like

the Atkins side or something like that.

856

: 00:46:09

There was like no carbs.

857

: 00:46:10

Now it's keto and we know that females

respond differently to keto than males do.

858

: 00:46:16

And you know, the

importance of carbs is huge.

859

: 00:46:20

Like, it's something like I have to

tell my husband about all the time.

860

: 00:46:23

even just the other day, I was going

through my day, I got this massive

861

: 00:46:26

headache at 2:00 PM I had to take

a second lay down on the floor.

862

: 00:46:28

I'm like, what is going on?

863

: 00:46:29

Why do I feel like this?

864

: 00:46:30

I'm like, oh my gosh, I

haven't had a carbohydrate

865

: 00:46:33

since 6:00 AM what am I doing?

866

: 00:46:35

it just sneaks up on you and you're like,

haven't even looked at a carb today.

867

: 00:46:39

Like, I, of course I'm unwell.

868

: 00:46:41

that's my fuel and my energy.

869

: 00:46:43

, And I also think, like right now there's

so much content out there about women

870

: 00:46:49

specific this and female focused that.

871

: 00:46:52

And I think that it really shows how

we are for information because so

872

: 00:47:01

many women have this shared experience

of like doing this thing that we're

873

: 00:47:05

taught supposed to, you know, help

us lose weight or gain muscle or feel

874

: 00:47:09

better and it doesn't work for us.

875

: 00:47:10

And it is because a lot of it comes

from research on male physiology.

876

: 00:47:13

And so, you know, this kind of push pull

of like, there's a lot of influencers

877

: 00:47:19

putting out content on these things and

you know, I think sometimes you're like,

878

: 00:47:23

oh, maybe we could like discern that a

little more or like add a little nuance.

879

: 00:47:28

I really, I think it's like part

of this like bigger collective and

880

: 00:47:32

need and desire for information.

881

: 00:47:36

The last thing I would say is, is

kind of not shying away from heavy

882

: 00:47:41

progressive strength training for

the short term and the long term.

883

: 00:47:45

I also grew up in a time where we had

I don't think it's as much of an issue.

884

: 00:47:49

Maybe correct me if I'm wrong, you

might have a better pulse on it, but

885

: 00:47:52

like the bulky fear, like, you know,

female athletes thinking that if they

886

: 00:47:56

lifted they were gonna get bulky.

887

: 00:47:58

I would love to be bulky.

888

: 00:47:59

I have been trying to get mass adults

since I was like 15, and it is just

889

: 00:48:05

really not in the truth of our physiology.

890

: 00:48:09

You know, like it would be nice if

I had like massive rock delts, like

891

: 00:48:13

that's all I've ever wanted and I

do so many shoulder circuits and

892

: 00:48:17

it just like, is not in my truth.

893

: 00:48:19

You know, like we're, we're not

gonna get bulky in that way.

894

: 00:48:22

And so, you know, like I

think any resistance training

895

: 00:48:25

is better than nothing but.

896

: 00:48:28

progressive resistance training.

897

: 00:48:29

I think we go in and out, like there'll be

times where it's really cool to lift and

898

: 00:48:33

there's a lot of women lifting and you go

to the gym and you see it, and then we'll

899

: 00:48:36

go through waves where it's more cardio

and stair stepper and things like that.

900

: 00:48:40

But I think kind of maintaining

those things, those are some of,

901

: 00:48:43

the big concepts that I would

say are probably different.

902

: 00:48:46

Kelsy: When I had Dr.

903

: 00:48:47

Katie on earlier in 2025, I guess it

was last year, she was the one that

904

: 00:48:53

had mentioned fueling before a workout,

and it was new information to me.

905

: 00:48:59

I mean, you always hear like, oh,

eat something before your workout.

906

: 00:49:01

But for me, I kind of need to

understand the deeper why behind

907

: 00:49:05

it before I'm able to like.

908

: 00:49:06

Really put it as part of my routine.

909

: 00:49:08

And so ever since she told me I was

trying really hard to, to do that.

910

: 00:49:13

But like you said, mixing that real life

and that science, that's one of those

911

: 00:49:16

where I'm like, okay, I'm going to try,

because I am working to build muscle.

912

: 00:49:20

my strength training.

913

: 00:49:21

If I want that to be as effective,

then I want to cue my body

914

: 00:49:26

that I have enough fuel for the

loads I'm about to place on it.

915

: 00:49:30

I understand that now, but I think, like

you said, it, it's a balance between

916

: 00:49:35

that real life and that science and,

and trying to do what you can to sort

917

: 00:49:39

of like have that Venn diagram and,

and meld the two within your own life.

918

: 00:49:43

I think it's important.

919

: 00:49:44

So I, I love that you mentioned the, I

guess again, the, the adaptability and

920

: 00:49:49

the flexibility that you have to have as a

researcher and as a scientist, but mixing

921

: 00:49:52

it in with your everyday life as well.

922

: 00:49:54

And as far as the fear of bulking, I

think We still have that a little bit

923

: 00:49:59

with the, Pilates princess sort of

movement and wanting how do I get long

924

: 00:50:05

lean muscles and sort of these sort

of descriptive words I hear a lot.

925

: 00:50:09

I don't think there's as much of a fear

of bulking and I was just talking to a

926

: 00:50:14

physician yesterday who works with a lot

of patients in menopause and I feel like

927

: 00:50:19

that stage of life she's having to work

against a lot of the cardio machines.

928

: 00:50:25

I mean, there's still a gym here

that, you know, the women's side

929

: 00:50:29

of the gym has treadmills and

bikes and up to 20 pound dumbbells.

930

: 00:50:33

So we are still working against that.

931

: 00:50:34

But I do feel like, and maybe this

is just me and the people that I love

932

: 00:50:39

that listen to this, female health and

wellness specific podcasty type of stuff.

933

: 00:50:44

I feel like that narrative is changing

and people are understanding the.

934

: 00:50:48

Long-term benefits of weightlifting

and of strength training like you

935

: 00:50:52

said, how purposeful you have to

be with your nutrition in order

936

: 00:50:54

to get bulky and get that sort of

bodybuilder, competitive, physique.

937

: 00:51:00

I have a brother-in-law and

sister-in-law who compete in that way.

938

: 00:51:03

And the precise nature that they have to

do things at and the amount that they're

939

: 00:51:08

tracking things, like it is insane.

940

: 00:51:10

And so I feel like we're

moving away from that.

941

: 00:51:12

Like, females scared to get bulky.

942

: 00:51:14

Same with creatine.

943

: 00:51:15

You know, creatine makes you bulky.

944

: 00:51:16

Like that's what all

the gym bros used to do.

945

: 00:51:18

So I feel like we're slowly

moving away from that.

946

: 00:51:20

But that's why I love having people like

you on to sort of clear the air a bit and

947

: 00:51:24

be like, Hey, listen, I've been trying

for this for years and years and decades

948

: 00:51:27

and decades and it is just not my truth.

949

: 00:51:29

Sam Moore: I think one of the reasons

that I come from things from such

950

: 00:51:32

a, like a dynamic perspective.

951

: 00:51:35

Like I can't remember

routines to save my life.

952

: 00:51:38

like I was just talking about with

my brother when I was home for the

953

: 00:51:41

winter holiday, he's like, yeah,

always put my left sock on, right

954

: 00:51:43

sock on, left boot, right boot.

955

: 00:51:45

Like, what do you do?

956

: 00:51:45

And I'm like.

957

: 00:51:46

I have no idea.

958

: 00:51:48

I would assume I probably

do it differently every day.

959

: 00:51:50

And he was like, a psychopath for that.

960

: 00:51:53

And so, you know, I think for me,

like I have to be dynamic about

961

: 00:51:58

it because I can't the routine.

962

: 00:52:00

Like, I've tried to like, you know, put

the post-its around, lay things out.

963

: 00:52:04

Like, you know, if you go to my house,

there's like, there's so many post-its

964

: 00:52:08

around the house and most of them

are from my husband putting like,

965

: 00:52:11

don't forget your lunch, your lunch.

966

: 00:52:13

Like don't forget to put the

coffee creamer back in the fridge

967

: 00:52:16

or like, we have to throw it out.

968

: 00:52:18

Like, you know, one last thing.

969

: 00:52:19

Did you get your computer like he's had

to like, bring me my computer at school

970

: 00:52:23

So many times, like it's routines are,

you know, I have a lot of skills and a lot

971

: 00:52:28

of strengths, routines, not one of them.

972

: 00:52:32

And so for me, like, you

know, when I was younger.

973

: 00:52:36

Especially when you're a college athlete,

you're told everything about your life.

974

: 00:52:39

You don't have to think for yourself.

975

: 00:52:40

You're not registering for

your own classes, you're not

976

: 00:52:42

going to buy your own books.

977

: 00:52:44

You're told what shirt to wear and

from what time and you're given your

978

: 00:52:47

food and you're told what food to eat.

979

: 00:52:49

And when we would get in trouble, then

we would lose the extra pasta sauce.

980

: 00:52:52

We would only get the marinara.

981

: 00:52:54

We would lose the Alfredo sauce

'cause we were in trouble.

982

: 00:52:56

So then you didn't have any choices.

983

: 00:52:58

You only had chicken and marinara,

like everything was scheduled

984

: 00:53:01

for you down to the second.

985

: 00:53:03

And leaving that like, I was like,

when am I supposed to shower?

986

: 00:53:07

Am I, is that a everyday thing?

987

: 00:53:09

Is it like just in the morning times's?

988

: 00:53:11

Like I, when, when am

I supposed to do that?

989

: 00:53:14

If I don't exercise that

day, when do I shower?

990

: 00:53:16

Like that was a really hard thing for me.

991

: 00:53:18

How a grocery shop was really hard for me.

992

: 00:53:20

And so there's like all of these like

life things that my husband is like.

993

: 00:53:25

He's like, you're super smart

at what you do, but sometimes, I

994

: 00:53:28

dunno how you make it through life.

995

: 00:53:30

One of my biggest fears, unintentional tax

fraud, I'm like, what's happening there?

996

: 00:53:33

I don't know.

997

: 00:53:34

I can't do, I can't remember

how to do it every year.

998

: 00:53:36

And so I have to be really dynamic because

when I was younger I would get really

999

: 00:53:40

upset with myself that I like, couldn't

follow a strict routine and I couldn't,

: 1000

00:53:45,082 --> 00:53:49,372

you know, get five minutes of sunlight and

then drink my lemon water and then be in

: 1001

00:53:49,372 --> 00:53:53,272

front of the red lights for so long and

then do my journaling and not look at my

: 1002

00:53:53,272 --> 00:53:55,642

phone like I could, I, I can't remember.

: 1003

00:53:55,642 --> 00:54:00,202

And so, you know, if I have kind of

like a bigger picture concept of what

: 1004

00:54:00,202 --> 00:54:03,262

do I wanna accomplish and then a lot of

routes of how to accomplish that, for

: 1005

00:54:03,262 --> 00:54:06,042

me, that's gonna be more successful.

: 1006

00:54:06,042 --> 00:54:10,212

But it did take me a long time to be

able to understand the value and the

: 1007

00:54:10,212 --> 00:54:13,002

need to give myself grace in that

and to understand like I could still

: 1008

00:54:13,002 --> 00:54:17,262

be a successful adult and not know

how I put my socks on every morning.

: 1009

00:54:17,762 --> 00:54:20,417

Kelsy: I think that's a good take

home message anyways is like.

: 1010

00:54:20,917 --> 00:54:26,347

Just all of those, like extras in

the regimens with all of the routines

: 1011

00:54:26,347 --> 00:54:30,637

and doing what we think we should be

doing because that's what is aligned

: 1012

00:54:30,637 --> 00:54:33,487

with our female physiology and

what all of the experts are saying.

: 1013

00:54:33,487 --> 00:54:38,017

And we gotta get in the sauna and

the red light and the sunscreen

: 1014

00:54:38,017 --> 00:54:40,107

and like you said, the screen time.

: 1015

00:54:40,607 --> 00:54:40,667

Sam Moore: the

: 1016

00:54:40,679 --> 00:54:43,369

Kelsy: Yes, the blue light,

we gotta limit the blue light.

: 1017

00:54:43,519 --> 00:54:48,169

All of this just gets

overwhelming and hard to, I

: 1018

00:54:48,169 --> 00:54:49,909

guess, sift through a little bit.

: 1019

00:54:49,909 --> 00:54:55,609

So it's, I think nailing the foundations

and knowing that those foundations

: 1020

00:54:55,609 --> 00:54:59,749

might change and they might alter

in frequency over the course of your

: 1021

00:54:59,749 --> 00:55:02,629

entire life and throughout all the

different phases, whether or not you are.

: 1022

00:55:03,034 --> 00:55:07,954

Up on your feet and moving, or a

student or a mom, or you're super

: 1023

00:55:07,954 --> 00:55:12,334

busy because you're having to finish

all of your stuff for your PhD before

: 1024

00:55:12,334 --> 00:55:13,864

you have to present everything.

: 1025

00:55:13,864 --> 00:55:17,434

Like there's so many different life

phases and there's not like one right

: 1026

00:55:17,434 --> 00:55:21,184

way to do everything when it comes to

exercise, when it comes to training our

: 1027

00:55:21,184 --> 00:55:23,824

menstrual cycle, my menstrual cycle is

different than your like, you know, we

: 1028

00:55:23,824 --> 00:55:26,404

don't follow the same exact pathway.

: 1029

00:55:26,404 --> 00:55:30,144

So I appreciate all of the

education and I'm part of it.

: 1030

00:55:30,144 --> 00:55:33,889

I like learning about the female body and

the female physiology, and I appreciate

: 1031

00:55:33,889 --> 00:55:39,049

all of the education that people are out

there pushing and like you said, all of

: 1032

00:55:39,049 --> 00:55:40,729

the influencers and different things.

: 1033

00:55:40,729 --> 00:55:45,899

Like I can't frown on them because I feel

like it's pushing curiosity forward and

: 1034

00:55:46,409 --> 00:55:49,769

we're pushing different things forward

and pushing the whole field forward to

: 1035

00:55:49,769 --> 00:55:51,839

find out new things about our bodies.

: 1036

00:55:52,184 --> 00:55:55,574

Every day, especially since this

is a not new field of research at

: 1037

00:55:55,574 --> 00:55:58,364

all, but we're learning new things

about the female body every day.

: 1038

00:55:58,364 --> 00:56:01,214

And so I think constantly being adapting.

: 1039

00:56:01,244 --> 00:56:04,064

There's a good skit

like a video on YouTube.

: 1040

00:56:04,064 --> 00:56:05,924

I'll have to link it below

'cause it's really funny.

: 1041

00:56:05,924 --> 00:56:09,594

But the egg, like thinking about

how eggs have been viewed throughout

: 1042

00:56:09,744 --> 00:56:13,974

decades and it's like in the sixties,

don't eat eggs, it raises your

: 1043

00:56:13,974 --> 00:56:16,794

cholesterol and then someone walks

through the door from the seventies.

: 1044

00:56:16,854 --> 00:56:20,304

I'm from the future, don't eat

the yolk, only the egg whites.

: 1045

00:56:20,304 --> 00:56:22,884

And then someone walks in

from the future, nevermind.

: 1046

00:56:22,884 --> 00:56:25,554

We now know about good

cholesterol and bad cholesterol.

: 1047

00:56:25,794 --> 00:56:30,044

So there's this whole sort of like

skit with the egg, but I feel like

: 1048

00:56:30,044 --> 00:56:31,754

that's just the human body in general.

: 1049

00:56:31,754 --> 00:56:34,994

There's all sorts of things

that are gonna evolve over our

: 1050

00:56:35,024 --> 00:56:37,094

lifespan, which is so freaking cool.

: 1051

00:56:37,424 --> 00:56:39,734

And if we can view it as that

way, if we can view it as cool

: 1052

00:56:39,734 --> 00:56:43,004

rather than like a routine that

we have to follow, I think that'll

: 1053

00:56:43,004 --> 00:56:44,954

benefit us greatly in the long run.

: 1054

00:56:44,954 --> 00:56:45,164

For sure.

: 1055

00:56:45,664 --> 00:56:46,789

Sam Moore: I couldn't agree more.

: 1056

00:56:46,789 --> 00:56:51,849

That's of the reasons I feel so lucky

to get to be a scientist is like we

: 1057

00:56:51,849 --> 00:56:53,229

get to go figure those things out.

: 1058

00:56:53,229 --> 00:57:00,259

I think if I had dream the female

physiology community, like it

: 1059

00:57:00,259 --> 00:57:04,639

would be maybe if we could think

about like assuming good intent.

: 1060

00:57:04,779 --> 00:57:06,699

it feels like so vicious sometimes.

: 1061

00:57:06,729 --> 00:57:10,509

And you know, as an early career

researcher, like it's a little scary.

: 1062

00:57:10,509 --> 00:57:14,079

It's a little terrifying of like,

man, if I don't have all the money

: 1063

00:57:14,079 --> 00:57:17,049

in the world to do the perfect

study, like am I just gonna get like.

: 1064

00:57:17,549 --> 00:57:21,349

Trashed online or something, you

know, like, and I think there's so

: 1065

00:57:21,349 --> 00:57:25,659

many questions to answer and I think

there's so much value in it that, you

: 1066

00:57:25,659 --> 00:57:29,649

know, creating that space and, and

like looking at it through exactly

: 1067

00:57:29,649 --> 00:57:32,439

the lens you're talking about, it's

like, this is, this is exciting.

: 1068

00:57:32,439 --> 00:57:35,649

And like, yes, there have been people

who have done so much important work

: 1069

00:57:35,649 --> 00:57:38,619

before us, but science is an evolution.

: 1070

00:57:38,619 --> 00:57:42,189

It's like, you know, you're always kind of

disproving yourself and you're letting the

: 1071

00:57:42,189 --> 00:57:45,639

data show you know, what the next step is.

: 1072

00:57:45,649 --> 00:57:48,559

and so like looking at it through

this lens of like, this is

: 1073

00:57:48,559 --> 00:57:53,629

really exciting and what, what an

incredible time to be in this field

: 1074

00:57:53,629 --> 00:57:55,909

when it is blossoming so quickly.

: 1075

00:57:55,909 --> 00:57:59,809

And there are more resources and more

opportunities than there ever have been.

: 1076

00:57:59,809 --> 00:58:03,109

Like, you know, thinking about

the more that we can kind of come

: 1077

00:58:03,109 --> 00:58:06,319

together and support and have like

really beneficial and respectful

: 1078

00:58:06,319 --> 00:58:09,649

dialogue, I think is gonna do nothing

but drive the whole field forward.

: 1079

00:58:10,149 --> 00:58:12,859

Kelsy: I'm grateful I get to speak

to people like you and learn from

: 1080

00:58:12,859 --> 00:58:15,379

you guys because I completely agree.

: 1081

00:58:15,629 --> 00:58:21,579

And I guess coming from your industry

and just being at this extreme level of

: 1082

00:58:21,579 --> 00:58:28,239

science and research, what percent of

your education and your research paper is

: 1083

00:58:28,239 --> 00:58:30,969

critique versus like, good job doing this.

: 1084

00:58:30,969 --> 00:58:33,969

You know, I feel like majority of it, like

the, the people that you're presenting

: 1085

00:58:33,969 --> 00:58:37,639

to, I'm sure it's like they're picking it

apart to say, oh, why did you not, do a

: 1086

00:58:37,639 --> 00:58:41,749

double blind for this and this and like,

why did you choose to randomize this?

: 1087

00:58:41,749 --> 00:58:44,899

But not that, like all of

these critique based things.

: 1088

00:58:44,899 --> 00:58:47,719

And I think as the general public, we can

adopt that a lot too, where it's like,

: 1089

00:58:47,749 --> 00:58:51,169

oh, well they did a study on 10 people.

: 1090

00:58:51,169 --> 00:58:55,039

Well that's not big enough for, you

know, applying it to the masses.

: 1091

00:58:55,039 --> 00:58:58,839

But it's all these little markers

that just move us closer and closer to

: 1092

00:58:58,899 --> 00:59:00,729

understanding things on a deeper level.

: 1093

00:59:00,729 --> 00:59:04,639

And I just think, like you said, we

can take off those critique glasses

: 1094

00:59:04,639 --> 00:59:08,629

a little bit and just see all of the

progress that's been made for what it is.

: 1095

00:59:08,679 --> 00:59:12,089

and that's just pushing us forward

and pushing what we know about

: 1096

00:59:12,089 --> 00:59:14,729

the female body forward and

about the human body in general.

: 1097

00:59:14,729 --> 00:59:17,769

'cause there are differences, but

there are similarities and it's cool

: 1098

00:59:17,769 --> 00:59:19,599

to see all of that come together.

: 1099

00:59:19,849 --> 00:59:20,269

Sam Moore: Yeah.

: 1100

00:59:20,299 --> 00:59:26,169

I think part of it is like academia

is kind of built for critique and you

: 1101

00:59:26,169 --> 00:59:31,219

know, like I had to learn how to not

cry every time I got reviewer comments.

: 1102

00:59:31,219 --> 00:59:35,129

And you know, some reviewer comments

are really, really helpful some,

: 1103

00:59:35,179 --> 00:59:38,569

critiques are really helpful, but I

think it comes from a place of like,

: 1104

00:59:39,069 --> 00:59:42,099

every study could be better, I'm sure.

: 1105

00:59:42,459 --> 00:59:46,379

You know, sometimes a master student

needs to learn how to write a manuscript

: 1106

00:59:46,739 --> 00:59:51,149

and do a study and, not every study's

going to flip the whole world on its

: 1107

00:59:51,149 --> 00:59:55,324

head, but I think coming at it like, if

we can assume good intent, then we can

: 1108

00:59:55,324 --> 00:59:59,054

still ask those questions, but we can

ask from a place of respectful curiosity.

: 1109

00:59:59,424 --> 01:00:01,724

And then, you know, I

don't know everything.

: 1110

01:00:01,724 --> 01:00:03,764

I feel like I barely know anything.

: 1111

01:00:03,764 --> 01:00:06,634

I was really disappointed when

I defended my dissertation.

: 1112

01:00:06,634 --> 01:00:09,844

I thought I was gonna be so

much smarter and so much better

: 1113

01:00:09,844 --> 01:00:11,524

than the person I was yesterday.

: 1114

01:00:11,524 --> 01:00:12,634

And I feel the same.

: 1115

01:00:12,684 --> 01:00:17,179

I thought I was gonna that I was a

doctor and it was pretty anti-climactic.

: 1116

01:00:17,459 --> 01:00:21,709

And so, Being an early career researcher,

but being a scientist at all, the whole

: 1117

01:00:21,919 --> 01:00:24,169

ethos of it is to always be learning.

: 1118

01:00:24,289 --> 01:00:29,999

And so to be able to create environments

where we can have that really respectful

: 1119

01:00:29,999 --> 01:00:33,459

dialogue and be curious and kind of

ask questions, well, how come you

: 1120

01:00:33,459 --> 01:00:35,019

did it this way versus that way?

: 1121

01:00:35,019 --> 01:00:38,779

And sometimes it's resources and sometimes

it's personnel and sometimes it has to

: 1122

01:00:38,779 --> 01:00:42,659

do with the research question and, you

know, I'm not fully understanding kind

: 1123

01:00:42,659 --> 01:00:45,959

of what the constraints are, what the

goals were, and so to be able to learn

: 1124

01:00:45,959 --> 01:00:49,729

from other people's experiences will

do nothing but push us all forward.

: 1125

01:00:50,069 --> 01:00:51,059

I feel lucky.

: 1126

01:00:51,059 --> 01:00:57,169

I think that a lot of the scientists in

my generation That are going from graduate

: 1127

01:00:57,169 --> 01:00:59,119

school into early career positions.

: 1128

01:00:59,374 --> 01:01:02,454

I feel lucky that I've been

able to befriend a lot of them.

: 1129

01:01:02,704 --> 01:01:04,864

And to be able to create that

where, you know, like, we'll call

: 1130

01:01:04,864 --> 01:01:06,964

each other and we'll be like, Hey,

have you used this ovulation kit?

: 1131

01:01:06,964 --> 01:01:09,304

Like, do you know about it because

I can't find anything online.

: 1132

01:01:09,304 --> 01:01:12,244

Or, you know, how did you

use these testing strips?

: 1133

01:01:12,244 --> 01:01:13,804

Or what bloods did you look at?

: 1134

01:01:13,804 --> 01:01:15,124

And how come you didn't look at this one?

: 1135

01:01:15,124 --> 01:01:16,234

Do you have a test for this?

: 1136

01:01:16,624 --> 01:01:18,724

Being able to rely on each

other is really important.

: 1137

01:01:18,724 --> 01:01:23,734

And then also, I feel so lucky

that I've been able to find mentors

: 1138

01:01:24,004 --> 01:01:26,814

above me have been incredible.

: 1139

01:01:26,814 --> 01:01:27,654

I mean, Dr.

: 1140

01:01:27,654 --> 01:01:28,794

Katie's a huge one.

: 1141

01:01:28,794 --> 01:01:31,744

We were just on the phone the other

day and I was like, you know, it's

: 1142

01:01:31,744 --> 01:01:33,694

not what we're supposed to be talking

about at all, but I'm like, Hey, what

: 1143

01:01:33,694 --> 01:01:34,924

do you think about this study idea?

: 1144

01:01:34,924 --> 01:01:36,784

Like, do you think I could fit it in here?

: 1145

01:01:36,784 --> 01:01:38,014

And she kinda gave me some tips.

: 1146

01:01:38,264 --> 01:01:39,164

Abby Smith, Ryan.

: 1147

01:01:39,664 --> 01:01:41,734

Single-handedly changed my entire life.

: 1148

01:01:41,794 --> 01:01:44,914

You know, I will never be able to

repay her for what she's given me

: 1149

01:01:44,914 --> 01:01:47,974

and the opportunities that she's

given me and the person and the

: 1150

01:01:47,974 --> 01:01:49,564

scientists that she's made me into.

: 1151

01:01:49,844 --> 01:01:55,844

You know, my committee and like finding

people, you know, in applied field, Dr.

: 1152

01:01:55,844 --> 01:01:59,254

Georgie Breville is doing research

with, elite level athletes and how

: 1153

01:01:59,254 --> 01:02:04,294

do we kind of balance that applied

sport and academic, scientific, you

: 1154

01:02:04,294 --> 01:02:06,244

know, productivity side of things.

: 1155

01:02:06,244 --> 01:02:11,104

There's so many researchers that

are willing and want to be helpful

: 1156

01:02:11,404 --> 01:02:15,044

that, you know, when you find them,

it's really important to definitely,

: 1157

01:02:15,314 --> 01:02:16,964

you know, hold onto them for sure.

: 1158

01:02:17,464 --> 01:02:22,144

Kelsy: Well, my hope is always that this

podcast in this space is one that just,

: 1159

01:02:22,474 --> 01:02:27,734

I guess, fosters female curiosity and

lets people show up as, as whatever.

: 1160

01:02:28,379 --> 01:02:32,174

Whoever they are and learn in whatever

way they can and take what resonates

: 1161

01:02:32,174 --> 01:02:35,924

with them and what they feel like

they can apply to their own lives and

: 1162

01:02:36,134 --> 01:02:37,663

have questions on what comes next.

: 1163

01:02:37,663 --> 01:02:41,804

And I'm just grateful for you for coming

and sharing that and being a part of

: 1164

01:02:41,804 --> 01:02:46,214

that, and just being one of those people

that is pushing the field forward and

: 1165

01:02:46,214 --> 01:02:49,964

willing to translate what even you're

doing in the lab and your research and

: 1166

01:02:49,964 --> 01:02:55,004

your teaching and all that you've done,

like your history leading up to where

: 1167

01:02:55,004 --> 01:02:59,264

you are today and helping to translate

that for me and for the general public.

: 1168

01:02:59,264 --> 01:03:00,854

Like I just, I love it.

: 1169

01:03:00,854 --> 01:03:04,594

and speaking to just the female

camaraderie, I mean, I am grateful Dr.

: 1170

01:03:04,594 --> 01:03:08,269

Katie connected us because I feel like

now I have another friend in the field and

: 1171

01:03:08,269 --> 01:03:13,189

someone who I can, you know, talk to about

all of this kind of stuff that interests

: 1172

01:03:13,309 --> 01:03:15,349

both of us and we have such similar views.

: 1173

01:03:15,349 --> 01:03:17,149

So I'm grateful for that

and I just love that.

: 1174

01:03:17,674 --> 01:03:22,054

Yeah, there's just so much

interconnectedness and being able to

: 1175

01:03:22,144 --> 01:03:26,374

have the science, but also the real

life melding the two, and then also

: 1176

01:03:26,374 --> 01:03:32,364

being so integrated within the female

just science community, whether that

: 1177

01:03:32,364 --> 01:03:36,994

is through research or more of the

application based in the physical

: 1178

01:03:36,994 --> 01:03:39,694

therapy world, or the strength and

conditioning world, or whatever it is.

: 1179

01:03:39,994 --> 01:03:42,149

Sam Moore: I think that

you deserve a huge.

: 1180

01:03:42,794 --> 01:03:45,814

Pat on the back and round of

applause because I don't think this

: 1181

01:03:45,814 --> 01:03:49,729

is an easy thing to do, you know,

like, I don't think this is an easy

: 1182

01:03:49,729 --> 01:03:53,149

time to probably put yourself out

there and put content out there.

: 1183

01:03:53,199 --> 01:03:56,199

I at least feel like there's such

a pressure of if I were to, produce

: 1184

01:03:56,199 --> 01:04:00,129

content about my lab and the work that

we're doing and my students and things

: 1185

01:04:00,129 --> 01:04:04,569

like that, it has to be perfect you see

the work that other people are doing

: 1186

01:04:04,569 --> 01:04:08,879

and the resources that they have and

so, you know, I think a big kudos and

: 1187

01:04:08,879 --> 01:04:13,169

a big thank you to you for creating a

space where, you know, as scientists

: 1188

01:04:13,169 --> 01:04:15,269

we're not trained in translation.

: 1189

01:04:15,396 --> 01:04:15,556

Kelsy: Actually.

: 1190

01:04:15,749 --> 01:04:18,809

Sam Moore: we're trained in like

scientific writing and, you know, I was

: 1191

01:04:18,809 --> 01:04:23,489

lucky that I had a really amazing PI

that also gave me so much feedback and

: 1192

01:04:23,849 --> 01:04:27,479

coaching on, you know, my presentation

voice and my presence and my slides

: 1193

01:04:27,479 --> 01:04:28,559

and like all these different things.

: 1194

01:04:28,559 --> 01:04:33,479

But know, like we present at like academic

conferences to like other researchers

: 1195

01:04:33,729 --> 01:04:37,899

know, for you to create this really

welcoming space for someone like me who

: 1196

01:04:37,899 --> 01:04:41,619

is, you know, a little younger in my

career, to be able to come and share

: 1197

01:04:41,619 --> 01:04:43,659

and, and, you know, give my perspective.

: 1198

01:04:43,659 --> 01:04:48,619

And, you know, you did so much research on

like, in preparation for this interview.

: 1199

01:04:48,619 --> 01:04:50,929

And, and that always feels amazing

because then I feel like I'm

: 1200

01:04:50,929 --> 01:04:53,899

really in my bag and like talking

about what I wanna talk about.

: 1201

01:04:54,229 --> 01:04:58,559

and like your questions were really

thoughtful and like I was saying earlier,

: 1202

01:04:58,559 --> 01:05:01,439

like you asked me questions that,

that I've never been asked before, and

: 1203

01:05:01,439 --> 01:05:04,439

they really made me think in a totally

different way about how I'd apply my

: 1204

01:05:04,439 --> 01:05:06,629

work to, to different populations.

: 1205

01:05:06,709 --> 01:05:08,359

Yeah, I mean, I just, I thank you.

: 1206

01:05:08,359 --> 01:05:11,419

I'm, I'm grateful that we

do have these spaces because

: 1207

01:05:11,419 --> 01:05:13,909

it is, it's, it's important.

: 1208

01:05:13,909 --> 01:05:17,538

I think, you know, for me, translation

is definitely the part I love the most,

: 1209

01:05:17,538 --> 01:05:22,038

even though it's the part that like,

probably get the least amount of time

: 1210

01:05:22,038 --> 01:05:24,189

to do like in the classroom teaching.

: 1211

01:05:24,189 --> 01:05:27,759

And so, you know, any chance

I can do it is, is amazing.

: 1212

01:05:27,759 --> 01:05:29,529

And I definitely didn't

make it easy on ya.

: 1213

01:05:29,889 --> 01:05:31,038

So yeah.

: 1214

01:05:31,038 --> 01:05:33,879

I just wanted to thank you and

say that I'm really grateful

: 1215

01:05:33,879 --> 01:05:35,109

for this time in this space.

: 1216

01:05:35,609 --> 01:05:36,779

Kelsy: Well, it's fun for me.

: 1217

01:05:36,829 --> 01:05:39,109

it's hard in its own way, but I'm

sure that you feel the same with

: 1218

01:05:39,109 --> 01:05:41,719

some of your research where it's

hard in the most beneficial way.

: 1219

01:05:41,719 --> 01:05:45,849

And I think what makes it hard

is, , clickbaity terms, like there's

: 1220

01:05:45,849 --> 01:05:51,038

so much black and white and trying to

fit in that space to allow everyone

: 1221

01:05:51,099 --> 01:05:55,839

really doesn't attract people as much

as saying, women don't do this, you

: 1222

01:05:55,839 --> 01:05:57,639

know, or you should never do this.

: 1223

01:05:57,639 --> 01:06:01,599

So It's harder to, balance,

wanting to reach more people

: 1224

01:06:01,599 --> 01:06:03,219

with this sort of education.

: 1225

01:06:03,744 --> 01:06:08,354

Yet not trying to say that there is

this right, a hundred percent of the

: 1226

01:06:08,354 --> 01:06:11,084

time, way to do things and wrong way

to do it a hundred percent of the time.

: 1227

01:06:11,084 --> 01:06:12,764

It's that black and

white that people want.

: 1228

01:06:12,764 --> 01:06:16,934

And it's that black and white that gets

people to click and view and it's hard

: 1229

01:06:16,934 --> 01:06:18,614

existing in that space a little bit.

: 1230

01:06:18,614 --> 01:06:21,264

But we're trying it, we're

trying to make it work.

: 1231

01:06:21,264 --> 01:06:26,084

And there's people that are getting

benefit from having so many of you

: 1232

01:06:26,084 --> 01:06:29,034

guys on and I'm just grateful that

you guys are willing to take time

: 1233

01:06:29,034 --> 01:06:32,254

outta your day to come and share

all of your expertise with us.

: 1234

01:06:32,254 --> 01:06:33,394

So thank you.

: 1235

01:06:33,877 --> 01:06:34,267

Sam Moore: Yeah.

: 1236

01:06:34,267 --> 01:06:35,167

Thank you so much.

: 1237

01:06:35,167 --> 01:06:35,947

It was so fun.

: 1238

01:06:36,447 --> 01:06:38,367

Kelsy: Well, I hope you guys

learned so much from Dr.

: 1239

01:06:38,367 --> 01:06:38,607

Sam.

: 1240

01:06:38,607 --> 01:06:42,567

I'll leave the link to some of her

research articles below the egg video

: 1241

01:06:42,567 --> 01:06:46,047

that I happened to mention that I'm

gonna have to leave the link below.

: 1242

01:06:46,047 --> 01:06:48,277

But I hope you guys learned so much.

: 1243

01:06:48,277 --> 01:06:52,897

I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation

and I hope you guys can take what Dr.

: 1244

01:06:52,897 --> 01:06:54,907

Sam said and apply it to

your own lives in some way.

: 1245

01:06:54,907 --> 01:06:56,977

So thank you guys so much and I'll

see you guys again on the next

: 1246

01:06:56,977 --> 01:06:58,537

episode of Wellness Fixes the pod.

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