EP94-Jamie Buzzelle-Parenting 101: How to Communicate Effectively with Your Kids

Artwork for podcast Bringing Education Home

Episode 94 • 10th October 2024 • Bringing Education Home • Kristina & Herb Heagh-Avritt

Today, I have the pleasure of introducing Jamie Bazell. Jamie is a certified parenting coach who prioritizes the natural bond and connection between parents and their children.

Her coaching approach involves the latest in evidence based practices and research and effective communication strategies.

Rooted in nonviolent communication, it promotes safe and healthy environment for children through the use of love and limits, while also impairing powers parents to feel confident in their parenting choices.

Jamie has been a speaker on the health, wealth and wisdom Summit as well as the confident parent summit, and is featured and is a featured columnist in two magazines local to her area. Welcome, Jamie. It is a pleasure to have you here. And I love talking about communication, so thank you for being here.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:01:07

Yes. Hello, guys. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to chat today.

Kristina: 00:01:11

You are? I'm so glad you're here as well. And we had, we had the pleasure of interviewing Jamie on that health wealth wisdom summit.

So that's how we connected, and we stayed connected after that.

And it's like, you know, this is one of the things that, as we're helping our families look at home school, look at their education, it's also that communication and parenting that goes along with it.

So that's why we like to bring people like Jamie onto the podcast and really just share some more tips and tricks and how to make things go smoothly for parents and families all around the world.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:01:39

Yeah, absolutely.

Kristina: 00:01:41

So jump in there with that passion. Start with, why is this a priority for you and how it kind of came to be?

Because, you know, we, we always like to have that story of, where are these people coming from that are sharing their expertise with us.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:01:55

How long is your podcast again? How much time do we have?

So, you know, it's so funny how you look back on your life and try and kind of piece together, like, how we always end up where we end up, I think, where we're meant to be. Right? And so it does definitely root back to my own childhood experiences, for sure.

And so when I look back on my own childhood, I definitely can see that there's threads of not feeling heard, not feeling like I had a safe space to express myself. I had a very emotionally volatile mother. My father and my mom were divorced, and so my mom had remarried, and I lived primarily with her.

I spent summers with my dad. My dad was what I would diagnose as narcissistic. Everything was about him. I was the apple of his eye when we were around other people.

But then behind closed doors, it was a different story. Very body shaming. He was very everything was kind of his way or the highway.

And so then when I was with my mother, if I gave any sort of feedback or expressed my own personal opinion or feelings about something, it was always twisted back on me to be my fault somehow. And so it just was a very not emotionally safe environment. And so then fast forward to me having a child.

And I think we all think that when you have a kid that you know exactly the kind of parent you're going to be. Like, you're the best parent ever when you're not a parent.

And so I did not really understand that, you know, that children, and this is going to sound so rough, but I don't know how else to put it, that, like, children are not dogs, that you don't just train children. And that's truly what I believed before I had my son.

And so I remember thinking, like, well, I'm going to have the best behaved child ever because I'm just going to train him how to listen to me. And I think back on, like, the things that I thought. I'm like, oh, bless your heart. Like, you just, you're so cute. Look at you.

So, of course, I have this baby. And, you know, babies are wonderful. They're difficult, of course, but they don't talk back and they certainly don't have opinions.

So when toddlerhood hit, I was an older mother, and so I had a lot of friends that had already been through these stages with their kids.

So I was getting a lot of feedback, my husband and I, and the feedback was like hot sauce in the mouth for back talk and put them on the stairs if they're not listening. It was very rooted in behavior. And I started to notice for myself that there was not any sort of connection between what is my child learning.

So I would sit there and observe that I'm putting him on the stairs. The behavior is not changing. He's crying. I feel terrible, and nothing's happening. It's not changing his behavior. He's upset. And then I felt horrible.

And so I started to really recognize that, what are we doing here? Like, this is a human being. This is not like you send your dog outside when they do something bad. I'm literally doing the same thing to my child.

I'm sending my child away when they do something bad. And so I started to do, I think, what a lot of parents do. I started to get all the books, I started to listen to all the podcasts.

I started to do all the things, I started to follow all the experts, and, yeah, I gathered all this information, but it wasn't like moving the needle. I was still reactive. I was still frustrated. I still started to very much notice that I was repeating a lot of the patterns that I hated as a child.

And I even started to hear my own experiences of my mother coming out and how I was speaking to my child. And that's when I stopped and I was like, all right, me self.

You have got to figure something different out, because the last thing that I want to do, I have one child. We tried for more. It didn't happen. I got one shot at this.

And the last thing that I want to do is repeat some of the things that I feel could have been done differently in my own childhood. And this isn't to shame parents. We do the best we can with the tools we have at the time. I truly believe that my mother did the best that she could.

I think that she had generational trauma. I think it was passed on to me, and I recognize that I'm going to break that with my son. I just will not pass it on.

So I started to seek out coaching for myself.

I didn't even know parent coaching was a thing, but I, you know, just through social media had seen it, and through getting my own coaching, it completely shifted.

Like, on a core level, what I understood about our brains, what I understood about children, what I understood about development, what I understood about communication, my husband was so resistant to it. It would cause fights, frankly. I'll just be very, like, straightforward.

And when he saw how much it shifted, how my son was reacting to how I was communicating with him, he actually got coached.

And I, like, I have chills talking about this because I go back to those moments, and I'm like, we are so different now, and I don't even know who that person is anymore. I, like, can't even identify with the me before all this happened. And so, yeah, it just shifted everything.

So I was like, well, I have to get certified in this. I have to start doing this. I have to start sharing this with everybody else.

And I don't want to sound like an infomercial because it does almost sound a little bit too good to be true, but it truly is one of those moments where you're like, oh, okay, there's a joke that you don't get a parenting manual when you go home with your baby. Like, they throw them in a car seat, and then you're like, have fun, knock, you know, like, there you go.

Herb: 00:09:23

And I remember, that's not a joke. That's a reality.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:09:27

It's exactly.

Herb: 00:09:28

Just because you have a baby pop out of you that suddenly you're a parent and no, you're not.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:09:33

No. And it was terrifying. I remember I did not want to leave the hospital. I was like, no, what? What? What do you mean? Like, I don't.

And they're like, bye, have a good life. And I just was like, no, can I live here? Like, the nurses are so helpful. Like, I didn't want to leave. And I.

I kept thinking, in the first year with my son, is somebody going to come get this kid? Like, there was nobody. Like, it took so long for me to even sink in that, like, I'm the person. I'm the one. Like, my husband and I are it.

And even that was so overwhelming. And so there's just so much. And there's so much that parents don't know. And so when you don't know, what do you do? Well, you go back to what you did.

You go back to how you were parented, because that's our comfort zone. And if that comfort zone is trauma, if that comfort zone is being screamed at, if that comfort zone is being dismissed, that's where we're gonna go.

And so the only way that we can change and move forward and break those curses and improve our communication is by changing ourselves. Yeah. So I know that's a long winded answer, but it was like this journey for me that really did start with my own childhood. Truly.

Herb: 00:10:48

Yeah. No, that was. That was actually a very beautiful answer.

And there are so many truths in that, you know, they call it generational trauma, not because it's, like, inside, but because it's inside in a different way.

It's like, you learn from your parents, and so many people think that they're grown up, and then they have a child and realize that they're still children and they have no idea what they're doing. And I'm 54. I've got grandchildren. I still feel like, what am I going to do when I grow up? I still don't feel like.

I still feel like a kid pretending like I know what I'm doing.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:11:21

Yeah.

Herb: 00:11:23

Yeah. So to be able to get some help in just understanding how to raise your children, it's not like you failed. It's not like you're.

Then it's not like, you know, you don't come into this knowing what you're doing.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:11:37

No. And I think it's. There's so many stigmas around parenting specifically. And I recognize that.

Like, I do believe that it's one of the most vulnerable spaces in our life. And I get it. Like, I. It has created me doing this, me changing how I. How we parent. It has created rifts in my family. We have it. I mean, it's.

It has made people very uncomfortable in my life. They think that I'm judging them. I'm not. They think that it means. I think that they're bad. I don't.

It is incredibly, incredibly sacred to be a parent. And that's the one part that is so difficult to. To people on social media, on my website, on. It's like, I'm not trying to tell you that you're bad.

I truly, like, I could cry. I just want to hold space for these parents to go, you're not doing it wrong. You just never got the right tools, and none of us did.

And once you have the tools, there was a time not too long ago when I just needed space for my son all the time because I was constantly overwhelmed. I was constantly feeling like I was failing. I was constantly feeling like, we are not aligning. I don't understand how to communicate.

He doesn't listen. And now I, like, crave being around him because we're connected. I miss him.

He actually, my husband's out of town right now, and my sister in law is helping out because I have two jobs and it's a lot. And so she took him overnight to go visit his grandparents. And so I was. I had a night to myself. And normally I'm like a lone wolf. I love to be alone.

I crave my independence. And I missed him so deeply on Saturday night because we're so connected now.

And I never thought that I would be the mom that, like, truly is so connected to her son at seven. He's seven. Where I'd be like, but I just want to hang out with him. And it's truly because of this. It's because I've had changed how I parent.

We are connected parents. We do not just observe behavior as behavior and correct behavior. We understand that it is something that is communicating a need or a feeling.

And when we respond to the need and the feeling, yes, we have boundaries. I give him Redo's.

I say, I know you're upset, but you want to redo that with me because I don't like how you just said that to me, but that is so much more loving. Then don't you dare talk to me that way. Go to your room. That doesn't feel good to anybody. No one. And we don't respond to our spouses that way.

Can you imagine, herb, if christina talked to you like that, and you said, christina, go to our room. I don't like how you're talking to me that way.

Herb: 00:14:23

We don't say that's happened. That's happened.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:14:28

But, you know, we assume that because they're children, we think the worst. And I don't I, societally speaking, like, we really, truly do. And these are just little humans. You know, my son has seven years on this planet.

I have 46 years. I've got 39 years of practice and brain development. But when he gets it wrong, he gets punished.

We think he's going to turn into some misfit that goes to prison if we don't lock it down. Now. We've got to give our kids more grace and allow them to make mistakes and have it be messy. Yeah.

Kristina: 00:15:05

Oh, my gosh. You had just brought three things that are popping in my brain, like, ah, I gotta say something.

First of all, thank you so much for, you know, giving your parents Grace. And the people who tried to help you earlier, Grace. You know, like we, like you said, they knew what they knew.

They didn't necessarily know anything different.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:15:22

Right. Yeah.

Kristina: 00:15:23

And that is something we have to keep saying, is that people who tried to help us in the past, people who parented us, who have helped us, they know what they know. They aren't doing it intentionally. Maliciously, usually. Right. So thank you for giving them that grace.

And I hope other parents and people who are raising their children now think the same way of their parents and the people who influenced them give them grace for what they knew.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:15:45

Right.

Kristina: 00:15:45

Number two was, oh, my gosh, I'm losing them now. But number two was like, the communication.

So, like, our homeschool families, they're like, I'm not sure how I'm going to stand being around my children 24/7 I'm not sure if I can handle so much interaction with them.

And you just talk to that, that when the communication is better, when the mindset is different, it's so much easier and so much different than what people really expect.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:16:15

Right? Yeah. Yep.

Kristina: 00:16:17

And then number three was, thank you for, you know, talking about that stigma of, our kids are just doing it to make us mad or our kids are just the worst case scenario. One thing I hate having parents say all the time is like, oh, so terrible, too. Of course they're going to be horrible.

Well, what if the expectation was different? What if it was like, no, they're just learning things right now. And the same way with teenagers, you know, oh, is there terrible teens?

You know they're going to fuss and fight and pull back and things like this. Why does it have to be the horrible teens? Why can't we have that communication? So thank you for those three things.

And I want to jump back to number two, is, can you give us a tip for those parents who are saying, oh, I'm not sure if I can handle 24/7 my kids as a homeschooler. What's maybe one or two things that they could do to increase that communication and help them love being around their kids?

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:17:10

The first thing that would come up for me is boundaries. I mean, parents are human, right? We are human. And I think that we are expected to be superhuman.

And especially in America, we are expected to raise our children in a silo. Like, we are very individualistic in this country, and so we just raise our little nuclear families, and nobody really asks for help.

And pretty much in every other country, everybody's raising within a community. We have extended families. We've got mom and dad living in the same house, cousins coming over. Everybody's helping, everybody's taking the children.

It's very fluid. It's beautiful. But here you just white knuckle it.

And so the first thing that I would say is that if, especially in a homeschooling situation, and I give mad props to anybody who's homeschooling, it is intense. I would. I would imagine. I don't do that personally. I would imagine that it's intense.

And I think that it's an amazing thing to be doing with your children, but have some boundaries. It is absolutely okay to model boundaries with your kids.

They need to be able to see what it looks like to have some self care on board, so be able to say, oh, gosh, I am getting really overwhelmed. I'm feeling really like, I need a minute, so I'm going to take myself away for a few minutes. And it depends on the age.

So, of course, like, you know, if we're talking about, like, the toddler age, that's going to be a very different look of a boundary than if we're talking about early elementary, if we're talking about middle school, if we're talking about teenagers. So, of course, this is very nuanced. What's important about boundaries, though, is that a boundary, and people don't understand, I think, boundaries.

And so this is very important. A boundary is a threshold that you will tolerate for yourself. You're not expecting anybody to do anything for you.

And this is the part that people, I think, miss in any sort of situation. Where communication with another human being is happening.

When we say to someone else, stop yelling, what you're actually telling that person is, you are making me uncomfortable. I need you to change what you are doing in order to make me more comfortable with what is happening in front of me.

Okay, so we are trying to control another human being.

So instead of saying, stop yelling, if we want to use a boundary which is not control, we are taking the onus on ourselves to own our own feelings, which is the only person in the room that we can control. At that point, we then say, you know what? I don't like the tone of voice that you're using.

It's making me feel uncomfortable and I'm getting dysregulated. I'm going to start getting angry. I'm going to take myself out of this situation because I won't let you talk to me that way. Let's take a minute.

Let's calm down. I'll come back in a few minutes and we'll see if we can maybe talk when we're calm. Do you hear how much more regulating that is?

How much calmer that is, the other person is automatically going to go, you know what? You're right. But if you were to tell me, stop yelling, I'm automatically getting. I even get anxious saying that to you.

As I say that, my shoulders go up, I start to, my heart rate goes up, I get more anxious because you are instinctively being controlled. So boundaries are beautiful because you are taking absolute ownership of yourself. But they're very difficult.

So the more that we can model them when children are young, then as soon as they get to an age where they're on their own, boundaries are just part of their who they are. They get to go out into the world and spread those beautiful boundaries all over the universe. And then what do they do?

They have kids and they just keep doing it. And this is where I truly believe that this kind of coaching, this kind of raising our kids in this empowered way is what will change the world.

I like, I know that sounds so crazy, and it is a big hill to climb, but I truly, truly, it is a hill I will die on every single day.

Because all it takes is one generation of children to have boundaries, to be able to speak their minds, say how they feel, and own their own stuff, and it just trickles out.

Herb: 00:21:16

So I have something called PDA. Persistent demand avoidance.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:21:20

Yes, I know all about that. Yep.

Herb: 00:21:22

Yes. And I'm just recently finding out about that. So one of the things you said is I can't let you talk to me that way.

When I heard that, it's like, what do you mean you can't let me? So even in that, there's a different phrasing, it's like, I can't accept you talking to me that way. So that was some.

So as soon as you said, oh, I can't let you talk to me that way, that's the same as, stop yelling at me, to me. And that, like, I felt that different, that shift.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:21:48

Yes.

Herb: 00:21:49

So it's like, no, I can't accept you talking to me that way. So I need to step away. So. But, yeah, I totally understand what you said.

And, you know, going back to one other thing, there are so many people, when they were growing up, like, I didn't like when my parents did that. I'm not going to do that when I'm, when I'm a parent. That's not going to happen. And then that does happen.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:22:11

It does. Yeah.

Herb: 00:22:12

I was almost the other way.

There was times where my dad would say stuff to me and I would get so pissed off at him, and I would look at him like, I can't wait to say that to my kids. Because it wasn't bad. It wasn't like, stop.

It was just these weird sayings as, like, you look with your eyes, not with your hands, because you don't be going through a store and picking up stuff, looking at, you know what kids do look with their hands.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:22:36

They do.

Herb: 00:22:36

But. But at that time, it was like, man, I can't wait to say this to my kids. This is so irritating. So I just wanted to throw that in there.

I loved my parents. I had a pretty great relationship to them, but we didn't have good communication as a family.

It's like, I don't talk to most of my sisters, and there were times where stuff would happen and I would, I could feel my face shift into an expression that my dad had, and it'd be like, oh, dang, I got my dad's face on right now. Not my face, my dad's. Or every once in a while, one of, one of his sentences would come out and it's like, this was not the right place to say that.

So that generational trauma, that generational learning is strong. It's in there, and it takes work to, to shift that.

And it's, it's, it's simple, but it's not necessarily easy because the shifts are real minor shifts.

It's real small things at first, but those, those little shifts in direction just one or two degrees it's not a big thing, but as you make that shift, then the whole trajectory changes and then you can shift a little bit more. So it's nothing. So the parents out there who are listening to this, it's not like you get a coach and boom, your whole life is going to change.

You're going to have to change everything right away. Seriously. It's really, really small changes. It is made over time, and it's like, oh, yeah. And then it's noticing.

It's like you notice, and then you make these little changes.

And so, so parents, when you, when you start thinking about this and say, don't think, oh, I can't do this, it's, it's really small shifts at first, and those shifts become big changes.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:24:23

It's so true. Herb and I have actually a story, if you don't mind me sharing, just real quick, that speaks exactly to this.

So I was coaching a mom who has two teenage boys, and the older one was 18, and they were so disconnected. And that's why she came to me. So she came to me for her older son.

He was getting ready, actually, to join the military, and she was worried that once he enlisted, that was it. She'd probably never see him again. They had been fighting and contentious since he was around twelve. He was ADHD.

He had, I think he also had some learning challenges in school. They butted heads. They were very similar, personality wise, and so they would just push each other's buttons.

And it had it adding in that they completely were opposites politically. And so then they would just explode in these huge fights.

So when he's home, he's not, he's a gamer, so he'd lock himself in his room, door shut, only come out to eat food. That was it. So when she came to me, as a lot of parents do, she was expecting me to give her a prescription for how to change his behavior.

And she learned very quickly, this is not about changing his behavior. So the first couple of times that we met, it was very much getting into her past.

Like, well, what was it like if you, you know, were just quote unquote disrespectful to your parents as a teen and, you know, what was it going, what was like in your house and, you know, talking through some of that kind of stuff? Because childhood origin matters a lot more than we give it credit for.

Here's the only thing that I told her to do with her son, and this is like, I, this story gets me every time. I said, okay. So he only comes out to eat. And he's in his room 24/7 with the door shut.

I said, every single day, I want you to go to that door, knock on it. And if he lets you in, if he doesn't let you in the first day, that's fine. Come back the next day, knock on the door, keep trying.

When he finally lets you in, just go sit on his bed. Don't say anything, don't do anything. He's going to be weirded out. He'll probably be annoyed. He's going to give you the body language.

He's going to be irritated, he'll be oppositional. It's all the things he's going to give you, every single signal to get the hell out of his room. Don't leave. Sit there for two minutes. That's it.

I want you, 120 seconds. And if he says, what are you doing in here? What do you want? Don't ask him to do anything. Don't do anything transactional. Just sit there.

And if he says, why are you here? Just say, you know I love you and I miss you. I just really wanted to sit here for a second. Is that okay? And if he kicks you out, listen to him.

It is his room. It is his space. I know it's your home, but teens need a space. Honor his space. So she started to do it.

So the first week or two, she's like, he thinks I'm crazy. And I was like, well, this is new, right? You've left him alone. He barely comes out of his room. Of course he thinks you're crazy.

So then I did tell her, if you feel comfortable, tell him you're getting coached. Tell him that you're committed to trying to work on this relationship from your side of it. And, you know, let's be transparent with him.

He's 18, he can handle that. Yeah. By week, I want to say. So my program that I coach with parents is twelve weeks.

I was in my car one day and it was around week six, so we'd been checking in and we're still working. Like, I'm getting a check in every once in a while. Like, well, how's it going with him? Whatever.

And she's like, oh, well, you know, actually the other night he came down for dinner and ate dinner at the table and he was out for about a half hour and then went back up to his room. And then one day his door was open and then one day he came down and after dinner and all she had been doing was sitting in that room.

But then that two minutes at some point turned into five. And then one time he shared something with her, and then, I mean, I. It all it took was two minutes.

So to your point, Herb, that was the only thing I told her to do with her son. And by the end of the twelve weeks, he invited her. He's a. I won't give away, like, what the thing is.

Cause I really want to protect, you know, just the coaching client relationship. But he has this very specific, outside of the home hobby, he has never included her in it. It was always a dad son thing.

And one day she comes into the kitchen and they're talking about it, and she's like, what are you guys talking about? And he says, what they're talking about? And he goes, do you want to go? And this is when she called me, and she's in tears.

And so, of course I hear tears, and I'm like, oh, my God, what's happened? What is. Oh, God, what's, what's going, you know, I'm like, oh, no. And she's like, he invited me. He invited me.

And so, of course I burst into tears because I cry about everything. And she's like, jamie, he has never, ever invited me to do anything with him.

I think the last time we did anything together was probably when I took him to a soccer game when he was, like, 13. So it really opened up because she saw him as a person. Yeah. Instead of just transactions of, did you clean your room? Did you do this? Did you do that?

Because she couldn't remember the last time she even knew anything about him. So it is relationship that will move the needle with your children at any age. It doesn't matter. And yes, there was a lot that needed to happen.

There was conversations that needed to happen. She was worried that if she started to do this, that she thought, oh, he's going to be getting away with the disrespect and all this stuff.

I'm like, you've got to let that go for right now. You're the adult. You are setting the tone for your relationship with your kids every single time. You have the authority.

Naturally not authoritarian authority. Yeah, use it, but use it, don't abuse it. Use it. Set the tone.

Go in there and remember what it was like to hold that baby boy in your arms when you brought him home from the hospital and how much you. I will cry. How much you loved him. Right? He's an 18 year old little boy and he misses his mom. Sorry, sorry.

Kristina: 00:30:22

Now you got me going.

Herb: 00:30:25

It.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:30:25

That story gets me every time.

Kristina: 00:30:27

Yeah, I can see why.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:30:30

Yeah.

Kristina: 00:30:31

And parents, please just do that. Just go sit by your child. Be interested in what they're doing.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:30:36

Every time I hear a parent that's like, my teen hates me, they are disrespectful. They are this and that. I'm like, do you know their favorite color? Do you know their favorite movie? Do you know what they enjoy doing?

Do you know what it's like to be their age? Going to the school that they go to and the grade that they're at? What is it like to be them? Do you know anything about them outside of the chores?

They don't do the room, they don't clean the laundry, they don't pick up the food. They eat constantly. These are all relationship. Go sit with your teen. Get to know them, because guess what?

They're going to be so much more likely to do the dishes if they feel like you give two craps about what's going on for them and what it's like to be them. Sorry, I did not expect to get emotional. I. Teens have a very soft spot for me because I feel like they just get such a bad rap. Yeah.

And I think they're really misunderstood.

Herb: 00:31:32

So I came at that kind of. Right, but kind of differently as well. So we didn't let our children have televisions or game consoles or anything like that in their room.

We had a living room, and they had their games and their consoles and everything. So it's like, if they wanted to do that, we all had to be in the living room.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:31:51

Yeah, I love that, actually.

Herb: 00:31:54

And so that worked really well.

If they went to their bedroom, really what they could do is read, draw, write stuff, but they didn't have, you know, they didn't have the electronic devices to keep them busy. So if they went to the room, basically they got bored and they had to come back and join the family.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:32:12

I think that's actually a great thing. We have to make us as parents a lot more interesting than technology to keep connected to our kids.

Kristina: 00:32:21

And along with that was we actually had family game night on video games. So we all the same video game. We all had our laptops and the computers, and we sat in the living room together.

So even though we could talk on chat in the video game, we were also talking across the room. Hey, go after that thing. Go after that thing. And that communication, that building of that game, that was some of our greatest Saturday.

Herb: 00:32:46

Yeah. There's places where kids can go to, like, game lounges, and they sit as a team and they'll talk and they'll play.

We did that as a family and we actually made some friends.

And it was almost difficult with the friends because we would be talking amongst ourselves, and then we was like, oh, yeah, we have to type or talk, tell them stuff.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:33:03

You guys, I love this because that is connection. This is memories with your family. These are things you're getting. You're actually inserting yourself in their world, which makes them feel seen.

It's all the things like love. I think that's amazing. I love your idea, Herb.

Well, and I'm sure it was both of you guys, but having that out in the living room, making it open and notorious. What? I see it all the time. You know, kids hold themselves up in their room. Hey, I did it. I had a tv in my room. I was in my room constantly.

Now, we didn't have phones and all the things, but, you know, kids are vulnerable and they. I love that you were doing that because it does force them to be more social.

We have to stay connected and keep knowing our children know their friends, know what their values are. And especially around the age of 13, they start seeking out mentors. They're not leaning into their parents as much anymore. Right.

They are looking at peers and mentors. We better know who those people are because they have the biggest influence between the ages of 13 and 21. Absolutely. So we don't know who they are.

Yeah.

Kristina: 00:34:09

And the other thing was a safety thing because especially if you go into the cyber stuff anymore.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:34:13

Oh, my gosh. I know, it's so scary.

Kristina: 00:34:15

So you need to have eyes on what they're doing. Yes. It's not that again, it's that message, that communication message of, I'm not watching you, per se. Yes. Trying to keep you safe.

I don't want to be in all of your business, but I, as a parent, have a responsibility to keep you safe. So this is one way I'm doing it.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:34:35

Yeah.

Herb: 00:34:35

Yeah. We have interesting rules as parents. So, like, when my kids, when my sons were getting older, we had a rule. It's like, okay, you can go play.

And we don't necessarily want to know your business. You know, you're late teens, you're going to go out and you're going to go do stuff, but you need to call me and tell me when you're moving.

If you say you're going to be over at this guy's house, if you're going to. If you all, as a group decided, okay, now we're going to go over here. You need to call me and let me know that you're going over there, okay.

And it's like, it's not that I care that you're going over there, it's that if you don't make it there, I want to know where to look for your body 100%. Okay? So. And I made that very clear. It's like, I'm not trying to keep tabs on you. I just want to know where to look for you or something goes wrong.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:35:21

Yeah. And I mean, autonomy. Yeah. You're giving them autonomy, which is what they crave so much. But you're not over parenting.

Herb: 00:35:29

Yeah, but we still, we still did something wrong because, you know, my kids are in our thirties, and one of them hasn't talked to me in over ten years.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:35:35

Oh, really?

Herb: 00:35:36

Yeah. There were.

There was a girl involved and grandchildren and differences parenting, and we were a conservative family, and he hooked up with a, with a woke young lady. And there was. There was. There was other things involved.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:35:53

Sure.

Herb: 00:35:54

All of our friends looked at our relationships like, what happened? And I was like, we don't know. So it's still, there's still. Even with the best of parents, things can go wrong.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:36:04

Yes.

Herb: 00:36:04

Even. Even if you have a great relationship, things can still touch off, blow up.

Kristina: 00:36:09

And it goes back to communication.

Herb: 00:36:11

And it all goes back to communication because when it all brought up and we tried to communicate there, there just wasn't a background there that we didn't. We missed something. So.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:36:21

So I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. That's.

Herb: 00:36:23

That's part of why we're doing this. That is, that is why we do this is. And why we talk, why we bring so many communication people on is because it hurt.

I mean, when it first happened, I would be, like, walking through my house, and then all of a sudden I would find myself on the floor crying. And it's like, what's happening? It's like, oh, that thought took me out, and I don't want that for anybody. That's rough.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:36:48

Yeah.

Herb: 00:36:48

Yeah.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:36:49

I'm actually estranged from my own mother. I have tried a couple of times to bring her back into the fold because of my grandson, and it just doesn't ever seem to.

There's no interest to hear my experience. And there's very much a lack of.

She's more upset that I am telling her that I have been hurt by certain things than she is, that I'm hurt, if that makes sense.

Kristina: 00:37:22

Yeah.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:37:22

So she's more caught up in me telling her that I'm hurt and her defending her intention than her just being able to sit with the fact that she could have hurt me and I just want to be seen and acknowledged and then we could move forward. But just like in my childhood experience, it's twisted back on me and it continuously. I continuously am gaslit and I cannot anymore.

I've had to set boundaries around it because it's incredibly emotionally exhausting for me to be around, and I hate that. And it's very much a wound that does not ever seem to want to heal.

Herb: 00:38:03

No, it doesn't matter. And I still get. I get. I get angry now. So I've gone from missing him to just being completely angry with him out all the time. And. And it's not. It's.

We're not the ones cutting him out. It's like we can't. We can't reach. We can't reach him anymore. We can't talk to him.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:38:24

Yeah.

Herb: 00:38:25

And so there. There's no way that we can get to him. And so it's like we're waiting for him to come back and there's just nothing there.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:38:32

And it's like, yeah, yeah, I feel. I do feel for you. And, you know, I'm in this situation, obviously, I'm the child and you're in this situation. You're the parent. And so.

So, yeah, it can be so difficult. And I totally get it. I do understand that. Like, you know, we all. And I do believe, like I do, I don't actually even resent her. I truly don't.

But I also. Because it's so emotionally explosive, because it escalates to a place where I just will not put my child in those.

The same situations that I went through, the yelling and the screaming and the shaming and the emotional volatility that he has now been subjected to, which is why we are now back in no contact, because he did see it, unfortunately, with the last visit. And there's just a complete lack of awareness. It's just like she doesn't even acknowledge it.

And it is very much why I'm so driven, to your point, why you guys do this. It's like I just don't.

I don't want anybody to feel like I have felt and I don't want if I can help parents become a little bit more self aware, not to in a way of shame, but just to go, okay, I have to be able to hold two truths that I'm doing the best that I can, and sometimes the best that I can can also still be hurtful. Okay. That doesn't mean I don't have to swallow whole that I'm awful.

I don't have to swallow whole that I'm a horrible human being, that I've completely failed because, look, I am a functioning member of society. She obviously did a lot, right? Yeah. So it's not to say that she was a horrible human being. However, she's not able to hold two truths.

And so for me now, understanding what boundaries are, there has to be some boundaries in place. And so, yeah, it's very much that drives part of why I do this is because of that I don't want to have children growing up having to set, cut ties.

Yep, exactly.

Herb: 00:40:41

Waiting until they're in their thirties to understand what boundaries are and then trying to set them and watching how drastically they can hurt and change.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:40:50

Yes.

Herb: 00:40:50

If you can get your boundaries set up early and grow up with them, then it's not a problem to, to be able to assert them, but trying to. Trying to learn them later and figure out and implement them a little bit different. It's a lot different.

I didn't learn, yeah, I didn't learn boundaries until later. And it's still. Still messy. It still hurts, still things, because I let things get way out of hand.

And then when I put the boundaries, people weren't able to shift.

And if I'd had them from the start and grown with them, then they would have understood me and things wouldn't have had to change, because change is one of those things that's not easy. It's like, well, we've always done it this way. And it's like, yeah, but it's always not been okay with me.

And it just took me years to be able to say that. And now that, now that, now that I'm in that place, it's like, that's not okay with me. But we've always done that. But that's not okay with me.

That's a hard, that's a hard thing.

So the earlier you can start to get this communication with your children, the earlier you can to get these tools under your belt, even, even as an adult, to learn how to set boundaries and then to teach your children that that is, that is so. I totally understand that. That can totally change the world.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:42:06

Yeah, absolutely.

And I remember going to therapy in my mid thirties and my therapist telling me, once you start setting boundaries and once you start understanding what you will and will not tolerate, because I was just the epitome of a people pleaser. I mean, and I didn't realize how much that is manipulative. Right.

Like, I'm, I didn't realize that I was actually manipulating everybody around me by trying to make them happy because I wasn't even aware. I just wasn't aware. And so I was just, you know, constantly catering to everybody else and totally, you know, denying myself my own needs.

And when I started to really recognize that, she was like, you'll really trigger people and you'll probably lose friends, and you're probably going to have some really, really difficult situations come up with people that you did not ever expect. And I totally blew it off. I was like.

Kristina: 00:43:00

That'S not gonna happen.

Herb: 00:43:01

I'm a people pleaser. I can smooth things over.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:43:04

Yeah. You know, it's just like with parenting, it's like, I'll have the perfect kid. Come on. I've got, you know, I'm superwoman, apparently.

I, you know, no, I'll never have, you know, and even now, you know, I'm 46 and, you know, I know who I am. I have my boundaries. I don't have a problem speaking up about them.

And, man, I have rubbed people the wrong way in my life that have been in my life for decades, and it has caused problems. They don't like the new me.

They just don't, they like the people pleaser that didn't really know and kind of, I don't know, and tiptoe around, and now I'm like, this is this, this is that. This is how I feel. And they're like, I don't, I don't like this new you.

Herb: 00:43:42

Yeah. My best friend of 30 years, when I started setting boundaries, we weren't able to talk to each other for five or six years.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:43:49

Yeah.

Herb: 00:43:50

And we're rebuilding now. It's been, it's been two or three years. We don't spend nearly as much time as we did together.

But there is, there is that, that history and that respect. And the boundaries are there now, but it's a little different. But I lost a lot of friends.

I lost, there's people in my family that won't talk to me anymore. So again, if you can get, if you understand, but the people that come into my life now, they understand my boundaries.

And I have some really good friends now. I've created family outside of family that.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:44:26

Well, and it also created relationships are.

Herb: 00:44:28

So much stronger because it's like they know who I am because I'm not changing to fit a dynamic.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:44:37

Exactly. Yes, exactly. And so the intimacy, the relationship is deeper. It's who you truly are at your core.

And I think that's my other tip, is like, going back. I mean, like, we've, like, gone this other way. We've cried, we've laughed. Like, all these things. We did have two tips for your homeschool parents.

My other tips. So the first one is boundaries. And I think we've definitely covered that one. My other tip, my other tip would be, we are not who we are.

Our personhood is not who we are when we are our worst self. So we need to be able to separate our behavior from our personhood.

And so when you think about your children and being at home and the constant, you know, you're going to just be around it all the time. You're going to have, like, periods of time where kids are going through developmental leaps. There's, you know, adrenochrome.

I don't know if you've heard of that, but boys between the ages of six and nine, they get at big surge of their first big surge of hormones. So between six and nine, boys especially can be very, they're in their feelings. They can be a little bit more explosive, things like that.

There's going to be periods of time. We're going to see kind of worse behavior. That's not who they are. We have to remember to separate behavior from their personhood.

And one thing that was never done for me is when I did make mistakes, I was never told this was a bad choice, but you're not a bad person.

And so as I grew up, when I made a bad choice or I made a mistake, even as an adult, like, if I pissed off my husband, I would immediately be like, why bad? I'm just so bad. In my head, it was like this negative self talk about, I'm horrible. I'm such a bad human. I'm so bad. Blah, blah, blah.

No, we are human. You made a bad choice, but you're a good person.

So I'm constantly reinforcing to my son, listen, buddy, this was not a good choice, but you are a great kid. So we have to be able to reinforce their inner goodness while also letting them know that they made a questionable choice.

And so I think it's important, especially if you're going to be spending a lot of time, because you're going to be doing a lot of correcting. And also, maybe my third bonus tip would be like, pick your battles.

Don't correct every little thing, because if you start feeling nitpicked, then kids, they're actually, their behavior will escalate because they just sort of feel like, who cares? I might as well just blow up everything.

Kristina: 00:47:07

Yep.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:47:08

Um, so yeah. Just separate their behavior from their person. No, just. You are not who you are on your worst day.

Kristina: 00:47:16

Yeah.

Herb: 00:47:16

Yeah. And as you do that for your children, that starts to settle in with you as well.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:47:22

Exactly.

Herb: 00:47:22

That will also destabilize your life and cause you a lot of issues within yourself. But, again, that. The other side of that is worth it. I do a lot of psychology. I'm an infj on the Meyer Briggs type index. I'm an intrograde.

I'm an introverted intuitive. So that whole I remember stuff. I put things together. I'm a horrible person. Right. Because I remember every bad thing I've done.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:47:55

Me too.

Herb: 00:47:56

It's like one of those. But. And so it's like I judge myself because it's like people can't.

People can't see the real me because they don't know the bad stuff I've done, which. And it's in. It's. And then the brain damage that I hurt my head threw that on top of it. So it made it. It made it. It made my life a mess.

And I am still working on that after years. And I am getting so much better and so much more comfortable with myself. But I was.

I was, like, a complete wreck for a long time because every bad decision I made made convinced me more that I was. I was a bad person.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:48:32

Yeah. And it feels like you can kind of go two different ways with it, so. I'm actually a lot like you, Herb. I remember, like, I can tell you if you.

I remember my husband and I. I brought him into a therapy session one time, and the therapist was like, tell me something that bugs you about Jamie to my husband.

And he's like, I don't know. I mean, nothing really kind of bugs me about her. And she was like, oh, I mean, she's perfect. She's Jesus, you know, like, joking.

Cause it's like everybody has things that bug your spouse.

And he said, well, I kind of don't want to say it because she's one of those people that as soon as she hears it, she'll fix it and she'll never mess up again. Cause she'll never forget it. And he's right. And to your point, like, I remember if you say something to me that, like, bugs me.

Bugs you about me, or if we got in a fight ten years ago, you said something to me, I will recall it, and it'll still sit somewhere in my heart. Like, it still hurts, right? And it's like, because I've swallowed it whole.

I made it part of my character, it became part of my being like, I can never do that again. So I go the opposite. I think of what you're saying, if what I heard is correct. Like, you take all your bad stuff and you're like, well, I'm just bad.

And this is, like, bad.

Herb: 00:49:40

I go, no, I do not. I very seldom make the same mistake twice. So somebody said something like that to me. No, my, I've changed.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:49:49

Yeah. Yes.

Herb: 00:49:49

So here's a little funny thing. It's like, this is a funny story about the same thing.

It's like, I used to bug my wife about putting her apples and strawberries and fruit in the refrigerator. Okay? Because if God had wanted fruit to be cold, he would have made it grow in the wintertime instead of the springtime, right?

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:50:07

Yeah.

Herb: 00:50:08

Fair. And cold fruit, it, like, loses its flavor. And then one day she pointed out to me, she's like, well, you know, you have to have your milk ice cold.

And I'm like, boom. Never said that to her again. Period.

The end, it pointed out my hypocrisy and is like, so now the only time I tell this is to point out my hypocrisy and I don't bug her. She can have her fruit in the fridge. That's perfectly fine. Milk has to be ice cold, and milk does not start that way.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:50:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I'm. Yeah, we're similar that way because I'm the same. I will never forget it. I. My.

The thing that bugged him was the way I used squeeze my toothpaste. He was like, if I have to pick something, it's how she squeezes her toothpaste. I can. I squeeze it in the middle?

Herb: 00:50:53

And you don't. You don't. Oh, that's terrible.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:50:57

I know. I'm a horrible human.

Kristina: 00:50:58

YouTube toothpaste in the bathroom.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:51:01

Yes. So she was like, okay, well, that's a good start. And I do. I'm a horrible human being. I just squeeze it from the bottom. I know. So what did we do?

We got two separate tubes of toothpaste because I'm not going to change. And now we have two separate toothpaste. So he could do it the way he wants to and I do it the way I want to.

Kristina: 00:51:19

Oh, my gosh, Jamie, you know, we could keep going and going.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:51:22

I know, I know.

Kristina: 00:51:23

You have been absolutely amazing. I love what you've been sharing with our parents and our audience, and thank you so much for all these wonderful insights.

I think this conversation has led to a place where hopefully there's some gold nuggets that they are taking and implementing immediately. Yeah, we want to make sure that they know how to get a hold of where can they find you? What's the best thing to do?

And I think you also gave a gift in the show notes for our parents, if you want to talk about that real quick.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:51:51

Yeah, so I did give everybody access to a copy of my free ebook and it just kind of introduces the type of coaching that I do. It's called the transformational Parenting program. So it's the first couple chapters that kind of just introduces what we cover in the program.

And you can find me on instagram. Ereparent coach and athlete. It's spelled repair, as in repairing a car.

And it's kind of a play on words because part of being a parent is that you do a lot of repairing with your kids, ideally, and you're also re parenting yourself when you are raising children. Right. We're also probably going back and doing some reparenting, doing some things that maybe we didn't get as children.

So it's at the reparent coach for both Facebook and Instagram. And then my website is the same. It's www.thereparentcoach.com.

Kristina: 00:52:42

Excellent. Thank you so very, very much. And all of that will be in the show notes.

But please make sure that, you know, if what Jamie has said, such a nerve in you reach out. You know, I am all about education. Vibrant family. Education is about education and your child and your family. But guess what? All of us need coaches.

Like she said at the beginning, we all need someone to help us along the way. Whether it's for the child's education or for your communication or for how you parent, make sure you reach out and grab some help.

There's no shame in that.

Herb: 00:53:12

You know, the best athletes in the world, the guys that are at the top of their thing, they don't, they don't get there and stop coaching. They get there like Tiger woods had eight coaches when he won, like the most masters.

The football players have like coaches for everything, and there's tons of them. And so it's, it's a nutrition coaches, parenting coaches, education coaches. It's like the more you get help, the more you.

The more you do, the more things get better.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:53:41

So, yeah, I totally agree. We got to normalize this for parenting, just like in any other area. I totally agree.

Herb: 00:53:48

Yeah. Most entrepreneurs have so many coaches as well. They get into self development and they have coaches for this and they coaches for that.

Marketing and business and so.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:53:57

Yeah.

Herb: 00:53:58

Why? Why do you think raising a family and having children and going to school is any different? I mean, that's the most important thing you're going to.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:54:05

Exactly. It's arguably the most important thing that you're doing. And most important things is like, the craziest thing ever. Yeah, I know.

People are, people are blown away when I say I do that. They're like, you tell people how to raise their kids.

Kristina: 00:54:17

I'm like, no, no, we help them find the way.

Jamie Buzzelle: 00:54:21

No, I know. I just help you become the parent that you want to be. Whatever that looks like. That's not up to me. It's up to you.

Kristina: 00:54:29

All right, audience, we have gone on for a while, but this has been amazing and wonderful. Thank you again, Jamie, for being here and bringing education home. Parents, don't forget that you are your child's first best teacher.

Be the best role model. Get the help that you need so you can help them be the best they can be for their future. Until next time. Bye for now.

Herb: 00:54:51

Bye.

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