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For full show notes check out the website.

Jennifer's journey is a testament to the power of resilience and the importance of self-awareness. Shelly and Jennifer discuss how the process of stillness and acceptance opened the door to Jennifer's transformation. She underscores the significance of listening to that inner voice that often gets drowned out by the noise of everyday life. Through small, intentional practices, such as journaling and spending quiet moments in reflection, Jennifer discovered what genuinely made her happy and fulfilled. This journey wasn't without its challenges; she shares the emotional struggles of letting go of who she thought she should be and embracing who she truly is.

As the conversation unfolds, the duo also addresses the uncomfortable truth that many women face: the fear of stepping outside their comfort zones. They discuss the societal pressure to maintain a facade of stability and success, which can stifle personal growth. Jennifer encourages listeners to take baby steps towards their dreams, highlighting that every small action counts in the larger narrative of one's life. By fostering curiosity about themselves and their desires, women can unlock new possibilities that lead to a more authentic and satisfying existence. The episode is a rich exploration of the complexities of midlife transitions and the empowerment that comes from reclaiming one's narrative.

Takeaways:

• The journey of self-discovery often begins with accepting your current situation and feelings.
• Midlife transitions can lead to personal growth when we embrace change and curiosity.
• Finding stillness is crucial for listening to our inner voice and desires.
• Small, consistent steps towards change can create significant transformations in our lives.
• Women today have unprecedented opportunities to reinvent themselves and their paths.
• It's essential to recognize that our worth isn’t defined by societal roles or expectations.

Hey friends, and welcome back to the podcast.

I am your host, Shelly, and I am so glad you joined me today for my conversation with Jennifer Arthurton.

Before we get started, I want to apologize for the audio.

It got a little janky this time and I worked on it as much as I knew how and as hard as I could.

So hopefully it'll be okay.

But the interview is great.

So regardless of the bad audio, I think you're still going to get quite a bit from my conversation.

Jennifer is the founder and creator of Old Chicks.

No shit.

A community and a podcast designed to inspire and support midlife women in chasing their dreams and creating their kick ass new chapter.

Jennifer was a former 500 marketing executive turned midlife mentor, podcast host, writer and inspirational speaker.

Jennifer survived her own midlife crisis and subsequent course correction.

So she now has a passion for helping women uncover their inherent power and wisdom in a time of life when they often feel overlooked and doubt themselves most.

You can check out all the information about Jennifer below down in the show notes.

Before we get started, I want to remind you, you can support this podcast with your dollars.

If you get benefit from this episode or any other episode, just hit that button.

Support the podcast down below.

It would be greatly appreciated.

Okay, friends, on to my conversation with Jennifer.

Hey friends, welcome back to the podcast.

Empower her wellness.

I have with me today Jennifer Arthurton.

She is the voice behind the podcast Old Chicks.

No.

And I am so glad that you're here with me today.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for having me.

You have a story that I think a lot of women our age is familiar with.

They may not have the same issues, for lack of a better word, that you had.

But gosh, you, you just had when I think it was when you turned 50, right?

You just had like this barrage of things that happened.

So I would really love for you to start with your story wherever you feel comfortable doing that and we'll just go on from your journey from there.

How does that sound?

Yeah, no problem.

Yeah, you know that you mentioned that, you know, my story is not uncommon.

Different sets of circumstances in everybody's lives, but the story is the same in that, you know, we are forced to come to terms with what's happening in our lives and decide whether or not we want to make changes.

And what happened for me was in the year leading up to my 50th birthday, I found myself divorced, an empty nester, unemployed and bedridden with a stress related illness.

And it was as though every identity of who I thought I was in the world was literally stripped from me in a very, very short space of time.

And it left me in this place where I was questioning who I was.

So if I'm not a wife, mother, you know, corporate executive, and at the time I was like, big into fitness.

If I'm none of those things, then who am I?

And the really scary thing for me was I had no idea.

If I wasn't defined by some outside role that I played or some title that somebody had given me, then I ceased to exist.

That's literally how I thought about it.

So it really was for me the beginning of a journey, of a deep personal development and spiritual journey to figure out who it was that I am.

Like, who's the woman underneath all these things that I did every day?

And what did I really want for my life?

Because, you know, I had a almost 30 year corporate career, you know, a great job, great perks.

You know, on paper it was the perfect thing.

But if I'm honest, in the last five years of my career, there was this little niggling voice in the back that was constantly saying, like, is this it?

Is this all there is?

Like, is this really what you wanted to do?

Yeah, you know, and, you know, then I would just tell it to shut up and so I could get back to work because I had a job to do.

And really it was because I was scared of that voice.

Like, if it wasn't this, then what was it?

I didn't have any answers.

And so I wasn't about to blow up the life that I have invested so much to build.

I wasn't just going to blow it up over some little voice.

And I realized at that point that I really hadn't made a conscious decision about my life.

Like, I had done all of the things I was supposed to do.

I was given the checklist of, you know, this is a good life.

You go to school, you get a good job, you work your way up the corporate ladder.

You know, you stop in there, you have a kid, a house in the suburbs, you do all the things.

And I had checked all of the boxes, but I had never actually really stepped back and asked myself, is this what you want?

Is this what's making you happy?

Right.

Because happy was nowhere on that checklist, right?

It was just like, here's the thing, I checked all the boxes.

And so, you know, when all of this happened and my life imploded, I was like, but I did everything right.

How can I be here?

Right?

But the one thing I hadn't done is really just, like, become connected with myself and what was important to me.

So, you know, as I said, that was, you know, after it took.

It was a long journey.

Let's put it this way.

It all sounds like, all nice and simple on, you know, when we're talking about it here on the podcast.

But it was a lot of months and even probably a year of me figuring out, like, first of all, why me?

Like, how come everybody else's life is going along just fine?

What's wrong with me?

Right.

And I really kind of turned it in on myself.

So, like, you know, there had to be something wrong with me if I couldn't keep all this together.

And then, you know, the next part about it was like, okay, but if it's not this, then what is it that you.

You want?

Like, what do you want?

And I couldn't answer that question.

So it started with me just, you know, and at that point, I was too sick to get out of bed most days.

Right.

Like, going to the grocery store was a huge feat.

Like, I couldn't actually go to the store and come home and put groceries away at the same time.

I had to stop and have a nap in between there.

Yeah.

And, you know, so I was kind of forced into this place of surrender, Right.

All the things that kept me busy were gone.

I couldn't get out of bed.

In fact, you know, there was one point where I still thought I could go to the gym, even though I was physically depleted and burnt out.

And then my trainer fired me.

So that kind of was.

Was put me back in this place where I'm like, okay, there's nothing I can do.

And I was forced into stillness, which actually was the greatest gift I could have been given.

I did not see it that way at the time.

Absolutely not.

Yeah.

But it was the greatest gift that I could have been given because it forced me to actually start listening what was happening inside me to that, like, little voice that had been kind of chirping at me all the way along.

Now I had to really pay attention because there was nothing else to occupy my time or occupy my mind.

And so, you know, I started paying attention in very, very small ways.

Right?

Like, what do you want for lunch?

Right?

Like, what should you have for lunch versus what do you want for lunch?

Right.

Like, I should have salad, but really, I feel like a cookie today.

And I would just honor my.

That inner voice in this, the tiniest of ways.

And as I built a relationship with it, I started to get very, very clear on who I was, what My values were what was important to me, and what did one.

What did I want my life to be?

Right?

So it was a journey.

You know, I'm listening to you talk, and yes, you're.

I have heard many, many stories.

That is exactly the same.

And my.

If I would say, if I was on your podcast, my story would be similar to yours.

I mean, it's just fascinating.

Well, sad.

I don't know what the word would be that we women go through this process, but you said a couple of things, and I'm gonna try to.

I should have written them down, so I'm gonna try to remember.

But happy was not on the list of things to do.

Oh, my gosh.

That was like.

That to me, was like a moment.

Because I think back to when I got married.

My mom said to me, you should marry that boy.

He'll calm you down.

And I'm like, okay.

So I did, I don't know, Jennifer, what I needed calming down from, but apparently I did need calming down.

So I did.

But then I did everything you did.

I, you know, I went to school, I got a job, I had a career, I raised my kids.

I did everything that I was supposed to do, but then I wasn't happy at all.

So one of the things you said in the solo episode, which I'm going to link down below in the show notes, because it was so good, the solo episode that I listened to this morning, you said I should be grateful for my life.

I should be happy for what I have.

And as I'm thinking back to my life with my kids and my career and all that, I did the same thing.

Why am I just not happy and grateful for what I have?

And then we have these guilty feelings, right?

About why.

It's the old, I hear this so much with the women that I work with, and in my mastermind group, I hear this so often.

And it's such a common thing because, first of all, as women, we've been taught to see our value in what we do for other people, right?

Our ability to have babies.

Is our body physically pleasing?

Right?

Are we being good girls and toeing the line and being good sisters and good moms and all of this kind of stuff.

And we lose ourselves in the process.

And then we start, like, much like I did, we start turning this.

This, you know, this niggling little feeling that we have that there's something more.

We start turning it back on ourselves because, like, what's wrong with me?

Why can't I be grateful?

And for me, like, you Know, I kept saying all the time, like, I have like, a job that most people would covet.

I travel all over the world.

I have amazing perks, I get paid really well.

You know, I have a beautiful house in the suburbs.

Like, I must have said that to myself so many times.

But the thing is, is like, when you're on the wrong path and, and you have this hole, like in your soul, right?

Like, you know, there's something missing.

There is no amount of external validation or achievement or things or anything that is going to fill that space.

Right.

But we try to make that be the thing that should make us feel okay.

But you cannot force that because that sense of fulfillment and purpose has to come from within you.

Like what makes your soul happy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

So I want to do it.

Yeah.

I'm sorry to interrupt you.

No, no.

And on your website you talk about how, you know, we've got this revolution of aging and how it's not your mom's or grandmother's aging.

And I think back to in particular when I grew up in the 70s.

So, you know, sometimes I would do this back in the day when I was thinking, well, why can't I be grateful?

Why can't I be happy?

I would tell myself, well, you know, my grandmother who was married to an illiterate dirt farmer in Arkansas and had like a gazillion kids, didn't sit on her porch at night and ponder, you know, her being, you know, sit in a rocking chair thinking, what, what do I want to do with my life?

You know, my grandmother just did not do that.

Whether it was lack of time or it's just something that you just didn't do.

And then of course, my mother of that generation as well, and so then it's all then passed down to us that this is what you do.

You're happy about it, you hush up and you just move on with your life and you, and you be grateful.

I have never said that to my daughter and I'll never say that to my granddaughters.

So I feel like I'm sort of breaking that cycle of just shut up and be happy.

Well, and I think that's the thing, like you raised something really important here because we are the first generation of women, you know, to really have kind of had so much more opportunity presented to us, first of all, like, things that just weren't available in our mothers and grandmothers times.

Right.

We're also the first generation of women to have like full time big careers and raising kids and trying to spread ourselves across all of the things.

Right.

And it's.

The women of our generation are on the leading edge of this change.

Right.

Like, I interviewed my daughter on the podcast a little while ago because I wanted, like, she's at a front row seat to the good, the bad, the ugly of this whole journey.

Right.

And I wanted to understand from her, like, how has that changed how she thinks about her own life?

And the one thing she said that just made me so happy is she's like, I cannot wait to see what I get to do in my next chapter.

And that, for me, was, like, such a big eye opener, because I don't know about you, but I never gave not one second of thought to a chapter beyond what I was in right now.

Like, didn't even exist.

I didn't have a chapter, Jennifer, until it was forced upon me like, a year ago.

Right.

And like with you when you were turning 50, your chapter was forced upon you.

Exactly.

I would not have willingly blown up my life.

Like I said earlier, I would not willingly have blown up my life.

And I am so glad that things transpired the way that they transpire because it truly was the greatest gift I could ever have asked for in my life.

Yeah.

Like I said, I did not see that at the time.

But, you know, had it not happened that way, it probably would have taken me another 10 years or maybe never to actually get to that point where I'm feeling courageous enough to step out and make a change.

I think, too, that I've had this happen in the past year.

Our bodies tell us when it's time for that new chapter.

And I don't want this to come across like I'm blaming you for your illness or anything like that, because I'm not.

But I think, you know, not a but.

But however we.

We get in this situation where we just go, go, go, go, go.

We're not happy, we're not grateful, and all of a sudden our body's like, I'm going to put a stop to this.

I mean, I really had that happen to me this past year, and I had to kind of step back and look at some things.

So I think that there are times that our body just says to us, we're going to.

We're going to shuffle some things up for you whether you like it or not, Jennifer.

Exactly.

And thank God.

Thank God they do.

Right?

Our bodies.

This is the thing, too.

Like, our body is the source of so much wisdom.

Yeah.

Like, if we're only tuned in and listening to what it's telling us, there is so much there for us.

But like most women, you know, my body, for me, you know, previous to, you know, my life implosion or my midlife crisis or whatever you call it, was like the stick that held up my head.

And my only, you know, thought or relationship was my body was trying to beat it into some shape or form, was pleasing to the outside world.

Right.

I had no connection with it at all.

And so when everything started happening and the symptoms and then, you know, menopause on top of that, at the same time, I actually was viewing it as a huge betrayal.

Like, my body was betraying.

Oh, me too.

I used to say that all the time.

Yeah.

I've had these kids, I've done these things.

Why are you doing this to me?

Right.

Right.

And meanwhile, my body was like, yeah, but I know better.

Right.

I'm going to take you somewhere that you might not even understand.

But that relationship with our bodies.

And I think this is the really, you know, I call menopause often, like the gift we didn't know we needed.

Yeah.

Because with everything that's the physiological things that are happening with our body, with hormones and everything else, the changes that are going on, our ability to withstand things that are not aligned for us is just no longer what it was.

And so things that were maybe minor irritations before or questions all of a sudden now come front and center to be dealt with.

Right.

Like, you can no longer ignore them.

And the.

So the physiological change is actually what I call, like a pattern interrupt for, like, you're going along your life, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And then all of a sudden, it's like you're brought up short because you're having hot flashes all night or you can't sleep or, you know, whatever else, whatever other menopause symptoms that you're having, but it forces you to stop and take a reckoning of what is happening in your life and what is it that you want and what is it that's no longer working for you.

Yeah.

And that's because, you know, we are never meant to be the same person from the beginning to the end of our lives.

Like our.

We are powerful beings that for most of us, you know, in the first kind of chapters of our lives, we're giving our power away to all of these things while we build families and careers and all of these things.

Right.

And now we reach this chapter where it's time for us to reclaim all that we are, like all of the power that we own, which is inside of us.

You know, we Couldn't.

We are not able to access that unless we have some kind of a pattern interrupt.

Right.

Because the societal messages are really, really strong about what a woman should be and, you know, how she should look and what she should do and how she should show up.

Yeah.

So it.

You can't.

It's hard to go against that until you're absolutely forced to.

Right, right.

I want to go back to something that you said earlier, because I think it's important when we're trying to figure out who we are, whether it's forced upon us or a transition or something that we're doing on our own, is just finding out who you are.

Because I, in my career, I went to a lot of networking things.

So the first thing you did at networking is, you know, what do you do?

Well, I'm a director of development, and I do this, this, and this, and I stopped doing that.

And I would say, what do I do for fun?

Or, you know, I would try to change that up because I am, you know, it's.

We give the standard answers like, oh, I'm a mom, I'm a grandmother, I'm a corporate person, I'm a vp, I'm whatever, you know, but those are just things that you do.

That's not who you are.

And so when I sit down and try to do that exercise, Jennifer, I find it so difficult to do.

I'm like, I don't know who.

I'm a podcaster.

I mean, I don't know.

I'm a blogger.

I don't know.

I'm a caregiver.

I don't know.

I mean.

And so I just sit there kind of dumbfounded, and I'm like, well, I don't.

I don't know who I am or what I want to do or where I want to go.

So how can.

How can we, women, particularly at our age, who have just been, like, bombarded for decades, like you were talking about, start that process?

You said you started in stillness, that you're able to sit still.

I did a podcast episode with last week, and we talked about stillness and how hard it is for us to sit still because, like, if you're in the line for the grocery store, what do you do?

You pull out your phones.

You know, you're the doctor's office.

You pull out your phones.

So how did you manage that stillness to get that.

To get that job done for you, to get that work done for you?

You know, the first thing about stillness was really, for me, coming into acceptance of, like, what was in front of me, like, the right here and the right now.

And the one thing that I started to realize in that acceptance was, you know, when I stopped fighting.

Because, like, you know, the reason I continue trying to work out even when I was physically burnt out, is because it was the last thing in my life that I felt I could control, right?

Until my trainer inspired me, right?

And I remember being, like, so angry at my trainer because who does she think she is?

And yada, yada, yada, yada.

And it took me about two weeks to realize that.

I'm like, oh, she's actually right, right?

And when I came to, you know, again, through a process, I came to the place where I'm like, if I want my life to be different, I have to show up differently in it.

Like, I can't continue doing exactly what I'm doing the way that I'm doing and expect different results, right?

So it led me to a line of questioning about why I do the things that I do, why do I show up as I showed up, right?

And a lot of that, like, the answer to a lot of those questions came out of trying to prove to the world or to whoever that I was good enough, right?

That I was a great mom, that, you know, I looked a certain way, that I was, you know, a good daughter and, you know, a good employee, and I was doing all the right things and I was, you know, getting promoted.

Everything that I did was to prove to the world that I was okay, right?

That I was enough.

And, you know, I started asking myself, well, what if I just let go of the fact and, you know, told myself that I was enough?

Like, what difference would that make to me?

So, I mean, the first thing, really, no matter where we find ourselves, is to just stop resisting where we are and to just come into acceptance.

Because in that acceptance, we find questions, and in those questions, it leads us to answers that can be, like, quite revealing.

You know, one of the things that happened to me along my journey was this is towards the very end of my career.

And I remember there was a meditation class.

And I'm not sure if I talked about this in that episode that you listened to, but there was a meditation class at my yoga studio.

And I had tried meditation before, but I had determined it an abject failure because my brain could not shut down, right?

It was just, like, not for me, but for whatever reason, I felt very compelled to go do that class.

In fact, I think I was on a business trip, and I took a standby flight home so I could make it in time for this class.

And when I got into the class and you know, I sat on the mat, all of a sudden, like tears started coming, like it was just starting to flow, right?

And I remember sitting there thinking, get it together, Jen.

Like, what's happening here?

Like, put the lid on it.

And I literally couldn't.

And it just was this well of emotion that came up and out.

And I sat there for that whole 90 minute class sobbing, like literally sobbing on my mat, you know, trying to be quiet so I didn't disrupt the rest of the people in that class.

But that was the beginning for me of this realization that I had been stuffing a lot of stuff down.

Like I was in that gratitude thing that we talked about earlier.

I was like just stuffing things in places.

And it's part of why I got burnt out.

Yeah, there was stress of life and work and everything else, but that big part of the stress was me trying to hold down things and make things okay that were not okay for me, that didn't align with who I was.

And when I began that process of relief that took many, many weeks of many classes, meditation classes, I did end up going back unbelievably, but it really was like a clearing out process that allowed me to then begin that, that inquiry into who I was.

And so, you know, I tell my clients now, like, first of all, I don't recommend anybody take the path that I did.

It does not need to be that dramatic, right?

But if you can start taking very small amounts of time just to yourself, like we talked about, like without a phone, without a book, without the tv, whether that's, you know, sitting and having your cup of coffee in the morning before the house wakes up, or going for a walk in nature or, you know, one of my favorite things to do is to get in the summer, get on my paddle board and go into the middle of the lake, right?

But wherever you can just find stillness and start asking yourself, like, how are you today?

What do you want?

What's, what's making you happy?

What's not making you happy?

And start that, that inquiry with yourself.

And really it's about building a relationship with yourself.

So just like you would with anybody other person, you spend time with them, you ask them questions, you get to know them.

And that was literally me starting at the very beginning of this journey of getting to know myself.

A couple of things there.

Yes, I agree.

I think accepting where you are at the moment is like the key to getting, getting things started.

But we also, like, it's, it's Comfortable.

Like, we like to be where.

Where we've always been because it's familiar.

We know it.

It's comfortable systems like Homostasius.

And if you don't, if you don't comply with that, that system is going to reel you back in to keep it.

To keep it whole.

So part of the problem, I think, and we've talked about this a lot on the podcast, not only for me, but.

Or a lot of other people, like, it's just really comfortable being where I'm at.

I like it.

I know it.

It's familiar going, I like what you said also about, you know, finding that still moment and asking yourself these questions.

Because I think I.

I'm going to do that because I think for myself, it was.

I just can't be still.

Like, I just can't sit there.

So if I can ask myself these questions, but then I'm thinking, I don't like the answer to that question, you know, but that's part of the acceptance, Jennifer.

I mean, you have to let all that out, or you're just going to stay where you are and nothing's ever going to change for you.

It's.

It's a difficult, difficult process.

Well, you know, and like you said, the human brain loves, like, security, stability, like, it goes in loops.

Like, I think it's something like 95% of the thoughts we have in a day are repeat thoughts.

Like, we don't.

We very rarely think anything new.

Right.

So stepping out of that is naturally uncomfortable, and your brain throws a hissy fit.

Right.

Like, as soon as you take a step into something you've never done before, your brain's going to throw at you 15 or 20 reasons why this is going to be a complete failure.

You know, and that happened to me on my journey.

Right.

Like, I had basically convinced myself that along the way I was going to become a homeless cat lady.

Right.

I told myself that once.

Yeah, right.

Be homeless in my car.

Right, Right.

And then.

And then that forced me or you know, convinced me that I should go back into the corporate world and get a new job.

And then, you know, two months into that, I was like, yeah, this is not it.

Yeah.

And I had to reverse my way out of it.

Yeah.

But I always tell, you know, my clients is you take the tiniest step possible in the direction that you want to go, because it's almost like a little hack for your brain.

It's like, you take this step and the brain goes, okay, all right.

It's all good.

She just took a little step Right now, you know, turn down the alarm bells.

Right.

And the process of taking tiny, consistent steps, like the tiniest step that you can in the direction you want to go actually leads you to look back one day and be like, oh, my goodness, look how far I've come.

Yeah.

So it doesn't need to be giant leaps and bounds.

And so, you know, when you're spending time with yourself, start where you're at.

If it's a minute.

Yeah.

Put on a timer for a minute or 2 minutes or 10 minutes or whatever it is that.

It is a practice.

Right.

Like, we live in this world where we're constantly bombarded with information, messages from here, there, and everywhere.

And so our brain's not custom to stillness.

Right.

And it wants to freak out.

It wants to fill this, the empty space.

But if we just start small and practice, and then, you know, you find you actually really enjoy that time with yourself.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I love that small step.

Small steps make big changes.

I always tells people the story.

It's been a while back, but I ran a half marathon once, and people were shocked who didn't, like, know me and knew I knew I was doing it.

And I don't remember how.

They would ask me, but I'd be like, what do you think?

I just got up on that Saturday morning and said, I'm going to run 13.1 miles?

No, I mean, when I first started, I could barely walk a block, you know, but now I look back like you're talking about, and I'm thinking, oh, my gosh, that was so amazing.

But it was just these tiny little steps that I took.

But I think when we're in the moment, it's like we get so impatient, like, why can't this happen tomorrow?

You know, we've got Amazon.

We got microwaves.

We got, you know, fast Internet.

So we're so used to this.

This way of living that things just automatically happen, and we.

I.

And I get really frustrated myself.

I mean, so I understand that, and I think that's an important point, too, is that you've gone through this process, Jennifer, and you know, you're.

You're doing well, but it was a process for you.

I don't want anyone to ever think that Jennifer spent five minutes in stillness, and all of a sudden, voila.

You know, it's.

It's.

It's.

It is not that people.

So you deserve to take that time and you're worth that time to take for yourself to just figure out, you know, figure.

Figure things out.

So I love.

I love Your story.

I love what you said.

That's really great.

Yeah, it's so true.

Because, you know, again, this, this life of immediacy in front of us, but every step we take along the journey is a step that's meant to happen.

Like, even when I consider, you know, like me taking a step backward and going into the corporate world, it actually wasn't a step backwards because what it really did for me at that point was solidify how much this is not what I wanted.

And now I'm like, I have to figure out the way forward.

Right?

So we just cemented by resolve.

So, yes, like, it might to the outside world have looked like, oh, she took a step backwards when it was exactly what was needed to get me on the path for going forward.

And when you get to know yourself and when you get to know what's important to you and what feels, Feels meaning for you for.

Meaningful for you and how you want to spend your life, right?

And you create that vision of what it is that you want.

You use that vision to pull you forward.

Yeah, right.

And then everything becomes.

Every step that you take is a step closer to that vision.

And every step, none of the steps that you take, even if they might be considered backwards, sidewards, whatever, none of them are wrong, Right.

They're all necessary to get you to that place.

And the trouble that we get into is that we try and make meaning of things right instead of just being like, oh, that was, you know, that didn't turn out like I thought it was going to turn out.

Instead of saying, well, I guess I'm not cut out for this.

I don't have what it takes to be like, huh, There's a pair of info, piece of information that I can use now to go forward.

That's me, right?

Yeah, it's all of us.

Yeah, it's all of us.

Because that's the way the human brain is, right?

Yeah.

But, yeah, as soon as we can not make ourselves wrong for anything, right?

Like, the, the energy of making ourselves wrong is really heavy.

Like, it drags us down.

If we can look at it as just with a sense of curiosity and be like, this is just information.

Okay, what do I want to do with that information?

Right?

And just cut the meaning and the stories out of it.

Because we, I mean, gosh, we tell ourselves all kinds of stories about what we're capable of, like, all the time based on our childhood, our history, our experiences, all of these things.

Like, I can't tell you how many times I've had clients who would be like, but I'm just an accountant.

How can I possibly become an artist?

But that's the thing I really want to do.

I'm like, well, you're not just an accountant.

That's been your experience to date.

But there is so much more to you than whatever it is that you're experiencing right now.

And that's kind of our journey on this planet is about, you know, expanding into all of the dimensions of who we are.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think that's an important point because I tell women all the time, you have everything inside you.

You know, what?

You.

Yes, you.

You.

You have your strengths, your skills, your talents, your abilities, everything there's inside of you.

And you have this great opportunity, especially during transitions, to pull that out and do something different to in your life.

You just don't have to stick with being an accountant.

And I loved what you said about stepping backwards, because it really made me think.

I took a.

About six, seven months sabbatical from a job I had thinking, is this really the type of work I want to do?

And what did I do, Jennifer?

I went right back into it.

And then I was like, oh, why did I do this?

You know, it's.

But it's comfortable, it's familiar.

And so.

But I like what you said, because I'm not going to see that as a step backwards.

I'm going to see that as something that, well, I'm just something I'm just never going to do anymore because I don't want to anymore.

But my whole point is, you have, gosh, the strengths.

I mean, we just know.

We just know so many things.

We just have the wisdom.

And I think it's important for us to spread that throughout the world and just, you know, just, Just, Just do it, you know, like.

Yeah, just.

Just do it.

You know, no one's really watching anyway, so, you know, no one's really paying.

They're all paying attention to themselves.

So just put yourself out there and do some things.

And I know it's easier said than done, but I just can't encourage women our age, over 50, over 60, over whatever.

I interviewed a gal who wrote her first book at 82 years old.

I know, right?

Yeah.

You know, it's just.

Just crazy stuff.

Never too late.

It's never too late.

And one of the big realizations I had along the way, like, I had just turned 50, and I was like, you know, one of the stories in my head was, nobody starts over at 50.

This is the beginning of the end.

You know, I Should be, you know, riding off into the retirement sunset with a pot of gold under my arm.

I'm like, yeah, that's not my reality.

Yeah, right.

Yeah.

And all of a sudden, it dawned on me that I'm like, okay, well, if I live to 80 or, God willing, 90, that's like 30 or 40 years of life ahead of me.

Right?

Like, that's a whole other chapter.

Right.

That I get to choose how I want to experience.

Yeah, Right.

And that right there was just like, huh, okay.

Yeah.

So this isn't the beginning of the end, like they told me.

This is just the beginning of a new chapter where I get to develop all of these different parts of who I am.

Right.

And, you know, even if you're 60, even if you're 70, like, 20 years is like, it's the longest chapter of our lives yet.

Like, when you look backwards, the longest chapter yet.

So you can literally do anything you want with it.

Yeah, exactly.

Because there's so much like.

Like, my mother, she only lived to be 63, but I see I'm 62.

She never would have done a podcast of 62 for lots of reasons.

For one thing, there just wasn't that technology available.

You know, she was like a one and done kind of person.

She retired, and that was that, you know, so, you know, we had the financial means, the technological means, you know, all.

All these ways that we can.

We can do different things with our lives.

And I would be so disappointed if women didn't do that.

I would just be, like, so sad, I guess is a better word if women didn't do that.

So, hey, I want.

Before we wrap up, I want to talk about your podcast, Old Chicks Know.

So where'd you come up with the name and what?

I've listened to a couple episodes.

They're really great.

I really like them.

I listened to the solo, and then I think you had a guest on about vision boards.

That was really good.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That was a good one.

Yeah.

So Old chicks.

No shit.

Actually came from very early on in my career, when I was in my 20s, when I was in my corporate career, and when we used to have new people join the team, we used to say, follow us, old chicks, because we know some shit, right?

Like, we would show you the ropes kind of thing.

Yeah.

Little did I know that that was like, a little foreshadowing of what was to come.

Right.

And when it.

When it came back around, I was like, oh, wow.

Like, it's true.

Right.

I had no concept of what that was Back then.

But I started the podcast because when I finally got to this place where I'm like, I get to choose how I want to live this chapter of my life, I was like, okay, what's possible?

Like, show me all these women, you know, in their 50s, 60s, 70s, like, who have reinvented themselves in their lives.

And I'm looking around, and it's like crickets, right?

And I'm like, I need to see possibility.

Like, I need inspiration.

And so I started searching for these stories and coming in contact with these incredible women, and I was like, okay, I need to share their stories on this podcast, because if I need this inspiration, then I need.

I know other people need to see it, too.

And, you know, that's the beautiful part of, like, when we step into our power, when we, you know, own our lives and create our lives, we're giving all of the women permission to do that, because.

Exactly.

Looking at you right now and saying, huh?

If she can do it, If Shelly can do it.

Exactly.

I can do it, too.

If Jennifer's doing it.

Look, maybe something else is possible for me.

And once you've opened the door to possibility, it's next to impossible to shut it, because it will always.

You might try to shut it, and I know I did along the way, because I'm like, this is too hard.

Right?

Like.

Right.

But you can't.

Like, once the door is open, you cannot close that door, and that possibility will always exist, and that possibility will pull you forward.

Like, that vision of what's possible will get you through the hardest days.

Because even today, there are days where I, you know, I'm like, this is hard.

I can't do this anymore.

I quit.

And I give myself permission to quit for.

But it's never longer than 24.

4 hours, because I'm like, okay, well, girl, you got to figure this out.

Get back in there.

And then I do, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

But it's.

It's so important for us to just, like, shine our light, you know, so that other people can see what's possible for them as well, too.

And so the.

On the podcast, I share these stories of inspiration from women of all walks of life who have accomplished all kinds of things.

I also talk a lot about anything that can help us to get to know ourselves better.

So spiritual topics, the brain and neuroscience, which I absolutely love.

Anything that just helps us understand ourselves, because I truly believe that the more that we understand ourselves and the way that our brains and our minds work, the more we have the power to then be able To.

To change it or to work through it.

Right.

Because 99.9 of what we believe is true is not true.

Yeah.

Yeah, Right.

And we just have to be able to see past it.

I have a shirt that says, don't believe everything.

You think so I wear that all the time.

Yeah, that's exactly.

Exactly right.

Exactly right.

But I will.

Yeah.

It's a great, really great podcast, so I just recommend my listeners go check it out.

I'll put the links down below in the show notes.

But, hey, Jennifer, do you have any parting words of wisdom for my listeners?

Yeah.

I mean, any woman who is listening to this show right now, like, wherever you are right now, wherever you are, starting from now, it almost doesn't matter where you're starting from right now, whatever situation it is, you know, whether you're in transition or comfortably situated in your corporate job.

But there's something inside you that just says, there's something more.

Just become curious.

Give that voice just a little space to grow.

Right.

And if it's, you know, I'm a huge proponent of journaling, maybe, you know, start writing about it.

Just see what happens.

It might start off as a line of gibberish, but something will come out of that.

But just open the door to curiosity about what that little voice is and what it is that it wants from you.

And because that will be the beginning of something.

But that little voice inside you is never, ever, ever wrong.

Ever, never wrong.

And so the more you can pay attention and the more you can listen, the more you will live a life that's aligned with who you are at the core of your being.

And that there is no amount of security or money or external objects or, you know, physical features that can ever, ever outshine that feeling of complete alignment that I'm in, doing exactly what I'm supposed to be doing.

And it feels really, really good to me.

Well, those are terrific words of wisdom to end our conversation on.

Thank you so much, Jennifer.

I really appreciate it.

Thank you for having me.