Would you wear cycling shorts to the office?

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Hello and welcome to the Cognitive Engineering podcast produced by me, Fraser McGruer, for Aleph Insights. In this series of podcasts, we take a look at interesting topics and discuss what we think they tell us about analysis and decision making. I'm here with Peter Coghill and Nick Hare of Aleph Insights, and this week we're discussing the Twitter outrage following Topshop's promotion of cycle shorts as casual wear.

Nick, go for it. Yeah, so a week or two back, Topshop put out a few tweets saying, you know, here's an exciting new look. And it was essentially trying to get people to wear cycling shorts to the office, you know, and around town, and I guess trying to make cycling shorts into a thing that it's perfectly acceptable to wear. Like the ones I'm wearing right now. And anyway, you might think nothing of this, I certainly wouldn't think anything of it, but cyclists, of course, were up in arms. Because I think almost because it's an invasion into their own little world of, you know, of cycle wear. And I think as the kind of gatekeepers of, you know, the cycling community, cyclists were, you know, criticizing them for essentially what it looks like to me, for trying to make cycling shorts popular without promoting cycling at the same time. Anyway, the question really is what I want to ask is, what is it with cyclists? Why are they so obnoxious? You know, are you with me, guys? They are.

So, yeah, do we know any cyclists? I don't know.

Looking around the room, you guys don't seem like cyclists.

Representing the cycling community.

Are you wearing a cycle t-shirt?

I'm wearing a cycle t-shirt. OK, so hang on. Are the scientists, are these particular cyclists complaining because of some cultural misappropriation? Yeah. Is that what they're complaining about?

No, it's more, you know, whinging about trying to turn what they see as a sort of essentially quite cycling-y thing into a bit of, you know, frivolous casual wear.

OK, so I think these particular cyclists might be just particularly difficult. But look, I mean, a lot of sort of pro-cycle campaign-y types. And I'm not active, but I follow the debate and follow everything that's going on. I think I'm pretty up there. Never heard of this story before. But generally, a lot of people agree anything to do with cycling that gets cycling out there, even if you're just wearing a cycle helmet for no reason, that's good for cycling. Well, OK, you say that. But raising the profile of cycling generally keeps cycling in people's minds.

Now you've touched on it, right? The idea of a cycling community. I mean, look, so we must say, well, let's just accept that people find cyclists, that normal people find cyclists obnoxious and they don't find, for example, rock climbers particularly obnoxious. So let's just drill into that. What is it about cyclists that riles right-thinking people so much?

Let's have a go at that. So for a start, you meet quite a lot of cyclists. That's the first thing. And if you live in a city, you see them quite a lot. That's the first thing. Second. Exposure. Second, cyclists in cities are well known for doing things that they shouldn't do. I'm not saying all cyclists do this, Peter, but things like running red lights, for example, is a classic one. And then the third thing they're really famous for is for being, whilst on the one hand, breaking the rules and doing that kind of thing, the other thing they're famous for is being very touchy about how close you get to them or don't drive dangerously near me on that side of things. Do you think that's a fair sort of... I'm sure there's other stuff. And I guess the fourth one is like wearing stupid tight clothes and, you know...

I think they are fair character traits of individuals. But I don't think you meet them with hypocrisy in any one individual that you're...

I'm not saying these things are true. See, he's just... He's being all touchy.

Yeah. He's being all touchy. Typical cyclist.

Let me just finish off. I'm not saying these things are true. But I'm saying that is a perception that exists of cyclists. Do you think I've portrayed that accurately? I think yes. I think you're right.

I think... But let's just narrow this down a bit. When you say people think cyclists are obnoxious, I think what you mean is motorists think cyclists are obnoxious.

Oh, I'm not a motorist particularly. I hate driving. I hate motorists as well. Like if by motorists you mean Jeremy Clarkson-led sort of motor enthusiasts. No, I mean just car drivers.

Car drivers also hate lorry drivers and lorry drivers hate pedestrians.

And pedestrians hate... All road users... I am speaking as a pedestrian. ...hate each other. I'm speaking as a pedestrian. Yeah. Not as a motorist.

And as a... But you hate motorists as a pedestrian. Yeah, right. Yeah, but look, I think there's a... I don't get as annoyed.

Motorists aren't as annoying. And they're nothing like as annoying as cyclists. But that's because of... And I don't mean the way they behave on bikes. I mean, as people.

Yeah, no, but we're talking about... I think what it is with cyclists is the sanctimoniousness and the self-righteousness. It's very much part of it.

And you're just demonstrating it now. You're just exactly what I'm talking about.

I think there's a huge degree of overgeneralization going on here. Parking all cyclists into the same bike park. Yes, there are some extremely self-righteous cyclists about all the fitness benefits, ecological benefits of cycling. There are some really crappy cyclists who just are a danger to themselves and others on the road. But these people aren't the same people.

Yeah, look, I just want to say the cyclists who I approve of... I'll describe the archetypal cyclists I approve of, right? They've got a tweed suit on, no cycling gear. They've got a tweed suit on, probably wearing a bow tie. They have bicycle clips, no helmet, nothing like that. And they ride very much erect on a shopper with a basket at the front. And in the basket is probably some Greek translation of Ovid or something. I don't know. But that's the kind of cyclist I like. Or an old lady on a bike, cycling through a village with one of those bells that goes... They're fine. I've got no problem with those guys. It's the lycra-clad menaces who think they're Lance Armstrong with the bloody pointy helmet.

So what's the seat of your objection?

Yeah. OK. I mean, look, we can stone cyclists. We can stone our bikes. Or we can spread this out a bit. Who else do we not like?

Well, I think this comes down to this. So we're going to tap in in a minute, I think, to this issue of why it is that we might get annoyed with cyclists because of that sanctimoniousness. Secret vegans don't annoy me, but vocal vegans do. There's no such thing as a secret vegan, is there? Well, what there isn't is there's no such thing as a secret cyclist. Yeah. Cyclists, you see them and they look like they're virtue signalling. It's hard to tell the virtue signalling cyclists from the ones who genuinely mean it. So that could be part of it. So, yeah, what do you guys find annoyingly virtuous things that people do?

Look, I hesitate to say it, but I'm often not keen on Christians. I don't know, I just, I can't help it.

Don't worry, no one will ever know. It's only going out on a podcast.

No, but it's that certain kind of Christian, you know. Look, no, I've got no problem. No, I've got no problem with Christians. I guess it goes back to that same thing I'm not mad about. It's not just the evangelicals. It's the people who sort of tell you, you know, I can. Yeah, it's the people who assume that they're better than you just because they have this particular belief. I guess I'm talking about piety. I don't like pious people.

So why, why don't we like pious people? Because I think that's very common. It's very common to dislike. Why do we, why do we have such a, why do we hate virtue signalling? Virtue signalling at least is virtue signalling and not sin signalling. You know, they're not doing something bad and making you feel like you ought to be doing it. And it's no skin off our nose if other people are virtue signalling.

I guess is that, you know, we all know that no one's perfect, you know. And, and I guess it's that sort of trying to give the impression that they are perfect or I'm not afraid.

Maybe it highlights our own imperfections to ourselves.

No, no. I think you want to bring them down. I think there's a perception that they might unfairly be gaining social advantages and that as we, we see that as a threat to our position on the hierarchy. There's this new guy in town, claims to be a cyclist, quite square jawed, looks good in Lycra. It sounds like Chris Wragg. I hate him. This guy, this guy's irritating. And I, I feel like that's part of it is the sort of crabs dragging, dragging other crabs down into the bucket with them. It's the sense that, well, actually, if this guy is, is seen as more virtuous than me, and I don't think he is, I think he's just pretending. I have a personal interest in, in bringing him down publicly.

But actually, I think I'm, you know, just running him over. Yeah, no, but I think actually if sort of the choice between a cyclist, a vegan, a Christian and a being done to walk into a pub, they just never would. Yeah, no, but so let's say as a cyclist, a Christian, a vegan and a BMW driver out of all those by quite a long shot. The one I dislike most is the BMW driver. Oh, but which one would you want to go to the pub with? You know, you know, I'm right.

If he's driving the BMW driver.

What if he's drink driving? Even then, still do it.

Um, Peter, well, let's just go back to the cyclist for a minute and narrow it down. Why do car drivers dislike cyclists? Why do they? Why do they? Why do they? Why do you get these road rage incidents with motorists shouting and falling and throwing stuff at cyclists?

I think they get frustrated by them. But also, they feel that they're not as important as them. And so why do you feel you've got the right to this? And why do you feel you've got the right to be so angry at me, the driver? I think. And also that they're bloody sanctimonious as well.

Well, OK, so parking is sanctimony. I think there's a there's a sort of social science theory that's quite neat for this, that there's a certain social order on the road. And if they were nothing but cars on the road, and we simplify the roads to be fairly just sort of normal single lane roads, that's all the kind of roads you got, a simple system like most places in suburbs and towns are like that. There is generally one car follows another car, and it's like a natural queue to the thing. And you can't really, unless you're being very pushy, overtake and squeeze in. And if you do, people dislike you, right? So there's a sort of social order to things. Cycling is a very different mode of transport to the car. It's smaller, slower generally at speed, but in urban areas is able to take advantage of its small size, move around in a very different way. So there's a you're so as a cyclist amongst lots of motorists, you're you're breaking the social order that they're used to. And that's potentially where.

And it can also take up more room than it appears to as well.

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, you should mean that the law requires a car to give you a metre and a half space, no matter where you are. Doesn't matter if you're on a tight road. If it's too tight, you just don't overtake. That's that's the law. So yeah, and cyclists will will ride in a way that protects them and other road users if they're responsible cyclists. And they will deliberately prevent people from overtaking them if they have judged it to be difficult, as you would in a car. You would drive into the site into the middle of the road if you didn't want somebody to overtake you because you was you could see things that they can't. So this is interrupting the social order. But also, there's there's also other things that introduce more sort of cognitive dissonance that a cyclist is not like a car in another respect that a car in front of you is probably going to be similar to the car behind you in the car that you're in, the car you're in. You just everyone kind of drives a similar speed. Cyclists, however, you might have old Daisy on her chopper doing three miles an hour and you might have a speedy road cyclist who can do up to 25 plus miles an hour. So when you see a cyclist, it's very difficult to judge what kind of cyclist they're going to be. So it leads a lot of thought when you encounter a cyclist to how they might behave and how they might how fast they're going, all sorts of things. Much more so it complicates the experience you're having as a driver, which is makes it more stressful. Okay, so I think then so I think that that's all these things together kind of culminate and when a cyclist does something you really you don't like can make people boil over.

I have to say on balance, I get way more upset with more frequently with other motorists than I do with cyclists. Absolutely. Yeah, just trying to put a rational thing on this.

I think as a pedestrian, I'm more frequently encounter annoying cyclists in the sense that I find cars quite predictable. You know that cars will stop at red lights, right? Whereas you can't always be sure. I mean, I'm not caricaturing or generalizing, but the fact is I've seen far more cyclists go over red lights while I'm crossing the road than I ever have seen cars doing the same. So yeah, you know, but you know, there is a defense to that, which is, of course, cyclists are much more vulnerable. They're much more likely to get killed. Cyclists are in terms of likelihood of dying. Cyclists are right up there. Per mile, I think, yeah, per mile, cyclists are the second most likely to be actually third most likely to be killed after motorcyclists and pedestrians, but the second most likely to be injured by a long way. So I mean, car drivers, there is something like two fatalities per billion passenger miles, whereas with cyclists, it's about 30. So about 15 times more likely to be killed per mile than a motorist. But yes, interestingly, they've got a similar casualty rate to motorcyclists, but a much lower fatality rate, which suggests that motorbikes, when they crash, you're in big trouble.

Yeah, the energies and the speeds involved. I think just as a side, I was thinking about changing my commuting from trains recently to getting a motorbike. But, you know, I think that's a I think it's probably best I don't, to be honest. Yeah, sorry. I interrupt you, Nick.

No, that's that's. So I think, you know, but I think there is there is this perception. I think that they're cheating, that cyclists are cheating, not following the rules of the pavement and they're not following the rules of the road. And, you know, the fact is that they there's a good argument why they don't. I mean, that's the whole point of being on a bike. They're less dangerous to other people, arguably, but they're certainly much more likely to get killed than a motorist. So, you know, fair enough, right? So why not say, well, actually, perhaps we should give give cyclists a bit of leeway to make their own judgments and to say, well, there's a lorry coming up behind me. I'm much safer if I jump this red light than if I sit next to it and get run over.

I suggest we take on the same attitude that I have adopted regarding wasps in the late summer, because I hate it. They spoil my picnics. They get aggressive. They're after my, you know, my jam and toast sort of thing. But the poor things, it's only because they're desperate and they're and they're going to be hungry and they're trying to store up energy. Are you saying we should squash cyclists with a fly swatter? Lure them to jars sweetened with sugar. No, they're they're going to die soon. They're going to die over winter. This is the wasps. Right, right. And so we should feel the same about the poor cyclists because they're in a significant risk of getting squashed. Well, this works as a model for me because I hate wasps as well. Yeah, and simplify things. We just need to get the cyclists to agree to dress up in like black and yellow hoops sort of lycra or something. So keep away. But also, you know, don't feel too bad for them. Listen, is there anything salient we want to talk about? Are we wrapped up? What do you reckon?

If you ever need your faith in humanity undermined, then I strongly recommend looking at the vitriolic bile that goes on around the tweet storms around cycling, anti-cycling kind of chat. So next time, next time the Daily Mail reports on some driver shouting at a cyclist, read the comments. They're hilarious.

I mean, I think probably worth saying that this is as as the three white middle aged men, this is about as safe a way of getting into identity politics as we can. And I want to say that I'm a big, I'm a big opponent of identity politics. And I've been exaggerating the vitriol with which I dislike cyclists. Of course, I don't dislike all cyclists. So our cycling listeners out there, I don't really mean it.

I know you're all individual human beings. I've got some cyclists. Some of my best friends are cyclists, you know, honestly, honestly. Um, okay, before we wrap up, quick question. Favourite form of transport?

Bicycle.

Nick?

The good old fashioned foot. Okay. I mean, I feel I feel like this is the it's on foot walking that I feel freest. I feel, you know, totally unconstrained and independent. I think even on a bike, you know, you can still get a puncture. You can still end up having to chuck it in a ditch and walk home on foot. Never happens. Your feet don't, they just, well, I know they do from a medical point of view. Sometimes your feet do break, but it's never happened to me.

It takes a long time though. A bit boring and tiring. Anyway, anything that's on water, you know, anything to do with boats, ships, punts, all that kind of stuff. That's what I like. It's got to be by water. All right, we'll stop there. Thank you as always for listening to the Cognitive Engineering Podcast. I'm Fraser McGruer. I've been here with Nick Hare and Peter Coghill of Aleph Insights. And until next time, goodbye.