Shownotes
Rip Esselstyn sits down with John Joseph—author, musician, and former frontman of the iconic hardcore punk band Cro-Mags—to explore a story of survival that defies belief.
John’s journey takes us far below rock bottom: addiction to crack cocaine, pills, and alcohol; a life of crime on the streets of New York; time spent in foster care and juvenile detention; and the devastating loss of loved ones to violence and substance abuse. But somehow, against all odds, John fought his way back—and now lives a life centered on service, discipline, and purpose.
Today, he’s a sober, plant-based IRONMAN triathlete, motivational speaker, and the author of the powerful new book Destroying Monsters.
John shares how the straight edge punk rock scene and the Hare Krishna movement helped transform his life, and how Destroying Monsters offers real tools for those battling their own demons.
He discusses:
- His descent into addiction and the dark underworld of crime
- How punk, spirituality, and service saved his life
- The power of discipline and Positive Mental Attitude (PMA)
- How his plant-based lifestyle fuels his endurance training
- Why Destroying Monsters is more than a memoir—it’s a guide to transformation
Whether you’re facing your own struggles or simply need a dose of no-holds-barred inspiration, this conversation will light a fire under you.
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Transcripts
Rey.
Speaker B:I'm Rheb Esselstyn and you're listening to the Plan Strong podcast.
Speaker B:People don't often make change until they hit rock bottom.
Speaker B:Well, for author and musician John Joseph, his life went well below rock bottom.
Speaker B:Addiction to crack cocaine, pills and alcohol, a life of crime in New York, murder and the death of family members, homelessness.
Speaker B:It's almost inconceivable that anyone could recover.
Speaker B:But John Joseph did.
Speaker B:And his new book, Destroying Monsters, will give you the tools to slay your own demons.
Speaker B:We'll have his story right after this word from Plantstrong.
Speaker B:If you're not familiar with John Joseph, let me give you a little background.
Speaker B:Best known as the lead vocalist of the hardcore punk band CRO Mags, he grew up in a troubled environment, spending time in foster care and juvenile detention as a youth before turning to music as an outlet.
Speaker B:He was involved in crime and in the throes of massive addiction.
Speaker B:But he credits the straight edge punk rock scene and the Hare Krishna movement for turning his life around and providing a framework for recovery.
Speaker B:If you ask John today, what does he center his life around, he'll say discipline.
Speaker B:Which is a far cry from the guy who was incarcerated for much of his younger life.
Speaker B:Today, John is a sober and strictly plant based motivational speaker, author, and accomplished Ironman triathlete.
Speaker B:And he spends a great deal of his time in service to others.
Speaker B:Now, don't get me wrong, he hasn't lost that New York punk rocker energy, but what he also has is heart, empathy, and massive amounts of compassion.
Speaker B:That's what his new book, Destroying Monsters, is all about.
Speaker B:Yes, you're going to hear about his undeniable, horrific upbringing, but the book is also a guidebook to help others destroy their own monsters.
Speaker B:With tools and methods that have helped John stay sober, active, and focused on his PMA positive mental attitude.
Speaker B:Please welcome my Plan Strong brother, John Joseph.
Speaker B:John Joseph, welcome to the Plan Strong podcast.
Speaker A:Thank you, brother.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:Man, it's been a minute since I've been in Austin, huh?
Speaker B:It's been a minute and a half, I think, trying to think.
Speaker B:The last time that we.
Speaker B:We saw each other, I know you were in Austin, you were playing at some bar.
Speaker A:I got this phone call in the morning and you're like, hey, come to the pool.
Speaker A:I'm here with a really good friend.
Speaker A:And it was Lance Armstrong.
Speaker A:And I was like, damn.
Speaker B:I know, I know.
Speaker B:But you know what?
Speaker B:This is what I want to do today with you.
Speaker B:I want to talk about.
Speaker B:Well, let me back up for A sec.
Speaker B:How many books have you written?
Speaker B:Six.
Speaker A:Six books.
Speaker A:I'm finishing up my seventh now, which is an updated version.
Speaker A:I took the cookbook that I wrote, Hardcore Kitchen, and unfuck your health.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:And I combined it into one book now, and I updated everything and a lot of new information, you know, and all the stuff that's going on, like the Ozempic and every.
Speaker A:You know, these ways that people are trying to lose weight and, you know, just a lot of stuff.
Speaker A:And I took out all the recipes with the fake meat and all that, because I don't eat that anymore.
Speaker A:And it just.
Speaker A:It got.
Speaker A:It's like, you know, unfuck your health 2.0, man.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It got it.
Speaker A:Got an update for what's, you know, going on in the world with all the obesity, and I address that issue.
Speaker A:And, you know, it's.
Speaker A:Yeah, been working on that for about a year, and then I.
Speaker A:I got another book coming after that, so.
Speaker B:Well, you are a voracious writer.
Speaker B:Your first book, evolution of a chrome CRO Magnon.
Speaker B:Then you had.
Speaker B:I think it might have been meat is for.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:The pma.
Speaker A:A lot of trouble.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The PMA effect.
Speaker B:Everything is a gift, obviously.
Speaker B:Hard.
Speaker B:The hardcore kitchen.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But one.
Speaker B:The one I want to talk about today with the plan, strong audience is this one.
Speaker B:Destroying monsters.
Speaker B:And, you know, you basically say walking through hell, battling addiction and finding recovery.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:I've read this over the last several weeks, and it is.
Speaker B:It's a.
Speaker B:It's incredible.
Speaker B:I can't believe how you just kind of.
Speaker B:You really, like, bear it all for the audience.
Speaker B:And the first half, it's broken up into two.
Speaker B:Two parts.
Speaker B:The first half is your journey.
Speaker B:So many different stories that are in there.
Speaker B:And the second half is kind of.
Speaker B:It's all about tools and the mindset to fight, which I.
Speaker B:Which I love.
Speaker B:So what I'd love to do is tell me, like, tell the audience you grew up in a kind of a tough environment at home.
Speaker B:Then you had.
Speaker B:We were placed in.
Speaker A:Putting it mildly.
Speaker B:But then you were placed in foster care, which was just as bad, if not worse than what was going on at home.
Speaker B:And then you were in and out of juvenile detention.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:How old were you when you were placed in foster care?
Speaker A:I was about 7.
Speaker A:It had, like, in 69, my mother, you know, I got.
Speaker A:Didn't even find out till I was in my 40s.
Speaker A:I was, you know, conceived out of a rape.
Speaker A:You know, my father broke in.
Speaker A:He was an animal, and beat my mom.
Speaker A:The whole time, you know, it was like, you know, the guy was from Ireland, so it was one kid after another and just, you know.
Speaker A:Professional boxer.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Really not a good person.
Speaker A:You know, I, I was able to contact.
Speaker A:You know, social media is wild because I didn't know a lot about him.
Speaker A:And my cousin is.
Speaker A:Kelly reached out to me and she's like, hey, I'm, I'm your, I'm your cousin.
Speaker A:Like, you're.
Speaker A:My dad was your dad's brother.
Speaker A:And I live in Long Beach, Long Island.
Speaker A:I'm like, get out of here.
Speaker A:I'm, I'm on my bike right now.
Speaker A:I'm riding out there.
Speaker A:You know, it's like 30 miles.
Speaker A:I was on a training ride and I, I, I was like, I would love to meet you.
Speaker A:And then she filled me in on the details of his alcohol and drug addiction and what, you know, that whole side of the family was dealing with.
Speaker A:You know, they were given hard liquor by the time they can reach up their hand to the bar.
Speaker A:My grand grandfather on that side died at 50 from cirrhosis of the liver.
Speaker A:It just ran in the family.
Speaker A:And then my father wanted to be a, a gangster more than he wanted to be a, A boxer and just started like, collecting money for mafia mob types and, you know, just a bag man.
Speaker A:Not like I said, not a good person.
Speaker A:But he took it out on my mom and she had nervous breakdowns and couldn't deal, couldn't take care of three kids.
Speaker A:He would just break in and beat the crap out of her and take all her money and her food and.
Speaker A:And so it got to be too much.
Speaker A:And my mom was put on drugs.
Speaker A:They put my mom on, on amphetamines and barbiturates at the same time, and she just spun out.
Speaker A:And then one day the landlady found us out in the snow in our underwear and called child protection services.
Speaker A:My mom, the place was filthy.
Speaker A:We were on the run constantly from him.
Speaker A:And then they just took us away.
Speaker A:They put us.
Speaker A:So they put me and my younger brother in the Angel Guardian Orphanage in Minneola.
Speaker A:And then they put.
Speaker A:My grandmother, took my brother for a little while, my grandmother, grandfather.
Speaker A:But then they couldn't deal with him.
Speaker A:So then we went to this, a foster home in Brooklyn, Sheepshead Bay, the Sheridan's.
Speaker A:And then the mom got cancer, so then we got separated and they put us in like a foster home from hell in Long island with these people that were just complete deranged, like anything you could imagine that would happen.
Speaker A:The abuse to Kids, we went through it.
Speaker A:And then my brother's foster home that he was in, my older brother, that got closed down.
Speaker A:He was only taking, like, girls from Vietnam and he was molesting them.
Speaker A:So they found out about it.
Speaker A:So, like, yeah, I would say I was like 7 or 8.
Speaker A:And then I was in that foster home in Deer park, and we were there for five years, and then they shut the house.
Speaker A:I mean, it was just crazy, you know, just dealing with all that.
Speaker A:And that led to me as a way to deal with all.
Speaker A:Everything I was going through.
Speaker A:I started drinking and doing drugs at 12 years old, you know, so.
Speaker B:Well, you know what?
Speaker B:One of the things that I found really interesting just to level set here for a sec, John, is you have in the book, you have some stats in the United States around drugs and alcohol use.
Speaker A:Over 80% of abused children that suffer sexual and physical abuse end up becoming addicts.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that's like, you know, that's why I never judge anybody that's an addict, because you don't know what their backstory is.
Speaker A:And, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah, he went through it and all three of us had addiction problems.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, but you say that 23 million Americans are.
Speaker B:Have.
Speaker B:Either Have a.
Speaker B:Are addicted to drugs or alcohol.
Speaker B:Drugs or alcohol.
Speaker B:And then I think you say 138 million report using drugs or alcohol before the age of 12, which I found, like, wow, that's it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I pulled those stats up from, like, CDC and other webs, other government websites, and.
Speaker A:Yeah, so, like.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So I think where.
Speaker B:Where.
Speaker B:Where.
Speaker B:Where I'm going with this is addiction is.
Speaker B:It is so ubiquitous Right.
Speaker B:Amongst our society.
Speaker B:You have.
Speaker B:You have been, you know, through the ranks of addiction to hell and back, and you've come out very much scathed.
Speaker B:But you're alive and you're given back like nobody's business.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker B:You dedicate this book to your brother Frank.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And Frank is no longer with us.
Speaker B:What.
Speaker B:What happened to Frank?
Speaker A:You know, I started writing the book because of what I had to deal with with him, and then what we came out of, but Frank was a veteran, Navy veteran, and they did surgeries on him.
Speaker A:And I mean, he always had alcohol and drug problems coming out of the military, but then I think they had to operate on him and they gave him Mercer.
Speaker A:And then as a result of the.
Speaker A:It was the untreatable co.
Speaker A:So it just started eating away at his bones, and they just gave him oxycontins.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker A:Like a PEZ dispenser.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, it just goes back a long way because the day before 9 11, I had to do an intervention on him.
Speaker A:And I got a call in Staten island, and it was my friend, the Morrison family, who always looked out Joey and Amy and the mom, and she called me up.
Speaker A:She's like, your brother's in my attic.
Speaker A:And if you don't come get him, he's going to be dead in a week.
Speaker A:So I get on the ferry out to Staten Island.
Speaker A:I'm like, I didn't even recognize him.
Speaker A:He looked so bad.
Speaker A:He was, you know, drugs, alcohol, everything, you name it.
Speaker A:Bad food.
Speaker A:So I said, you know, I'm not even with you.
Speaker A:Get your stuff, let's go.
Speaker A:And he had nothing.
Speaker A:And, you know, we took the ferry over from Staten island to Lower Manhattan.
Speaker A:There was the Twin Towers, and I booked in St Thomas, I booked a rehab bed for him with Joey Morrison.
Speaker A:One of the Morrisons, like Alex, God rest his soul, he passed away.
Speaker A:They loved my brother.
Speaker A:My brother was like.
Speaker A:Like, they took him as, you know, a fifth, you know, child.
Speaker A:The mother, such a sweet lady.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A: ,: Speaker A:Well, September 11 rolls around.
Speaker A:He had a night flight.
Speaker A:I was getting ready to go on, on a bike ride, training ride, and get the news.
Speaker A:Small plane hit the World Trade center, right?
Speaker A:I turn it on.
Speaker A:I'm like, that ain't a small plane.
Speaker A:My roof, because I live, whatever, a couple of miles from ground zero.
Speaker A:And my roof was up, you could see straight through.
Speaker A:And I'm like, there's this gaping hole.
Speaker A:And then the second plane hits.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:Yeah, and I couldn't get him out of New York for, I don't know, it was like, weeks.
Speaker A:So he spent the weeks detoxing in my house, which was like reliving every past traumatic situation that we went through.
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker A:I mean, it was like to be dealing with 911 and what was happening in the city.
Speaker A:My brother in my house going through that.
Speaker A:It was surreal.
Speaker A:It was just like, wow.
Speaker A:And he just continued, you know, his wife, his girlfriend at the time, died in his arms of an overdose.
Speaker A:I got the call from that, you know, and it was constant.
Speaker A:I put him in the VA on 23rd street and First Avenue.
Speaker A:And I called up the next day to.
Speaker A:I, you know, to a day later, hey, you know, I'm going to bring my brother some stuff.
Speaker A:He had nothing.
Speaker A:So they're like, oh, he left this morning, and he went right back to the house.
Speaker A:And basically, you know, I said, you got to get out of there, you know, like, why did you leave this?
Speaker A:You know, so it just kept.
Speaker A:And he.
Speaker A:He ate the worst food, you know, too.
Speaker A:So that was the other thing.
Speaker A:On top of the booze and the drugs, he was also eating, you know, the most terrible foods you could imagine, you know, off of those, like, street vendor trucks.
Speaker A:You know, we used to joke, like, he eats breakfast, lunch, and dinner off of Muhammad's mystery meat truck, you know, you know, the kebabs and all that crap.
Speaker A:And so he had a lot of health issues because of that.
Speaker A:And then he just suffered a major stroke and never recovered from that, and then basically drank and drugged himself to death.
Speaker A:His heart stopped and.
Speaker A:Yeah, there for a few days before anybody found him.
Speaker A:So that was.
Speaker A:You know, it was.
Speaker A:And I had already been writing the book.
Speaker A:You know, I was already penning this, and just like.
Speaker A:Because I really felt I had a lot to offer people that, you know, are going through addiction just to never give up and the methods that I used.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And then I was here, and.
Speaker A:And, you know, my friend stopped by.
Speaker A:He was traveling, and he was like, yo, I'm like, an hour away from your house, man.
Speaker A:Like, you know, this guy Richie Scam, and he's a musician guy, and he's like, yeah.
Speaker A:I said, come by.
Speaker A:So we're sitting out in the backyard, and he's in recovery himself.
Speaker A:So he was like, what's going on with your brother Frank?
Speaker A:And I was like, oh, man, it's not good.
Speaker A:And I was like, I'm expecting to get that call, you know, any day.
Speaker A:And I swear to God, I'm sitting here.
Speaker A:He's sitting here.
Speaker A:There's a table in between us, and my phone is on the table, and I see my brother E calling.
Speaker A:And something just told me, like, this is the call.
Speaker A:And I picked up the phone, and he goes, did you hear?
Speaker A:And I was like, frank died, right?
Speaker A:And he goes, yeah, I knew.
Speaker A:I knew.
Speaker A:It was like, you just like, you know, losing a sibling, man.
Speaker A:You just, like.
Speaker A:You just knew.
Speaker A:You just knew it.
Speaker A:And my friend said, oh, man, I'm going to leave you to deal with this.
Speaker A:I'll let you have your space.
Speaker A:So he left.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I had my grieving, and I wrote the second chapter I dedicated to, you know, just my brother's entire life.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I couldn't get a flight anywhere because it was later in the day.
Speaker A:So I just.
Speaker A:I had to process that grief some, any way I could.
Speaker A:So I just wrote the second chapter, which was going to come later.
Speaker A:It was a later chapter.
Speaker A:And Then I just wrote all, all night into the next morning.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, you know what, what, what runs through the book, John, is your undying love for your brother and how you at every turn were there for him and trying to give him your hand and help him up.
Speaker B:But as we all know, you know, you can only help somebody so much.
Speaker A:Yeah, they don't want to change.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And you know, I, I like, you know, even through my addictions and, and my big relapse from 88 to 90, I was smoking freebase and then crack.
Speaker A:And the first time I smoked freebase, the guy had robbed like, you know, the Cuban cartel people in Miami.
Speaker A:And after being up for two days, they came with AR15s and opened up on the house while we were sleeping.
Speaker A:So I should have taken the, you know, caution right there, been like, all right, I'm headed to a bad place.
Speaker A:But I was around bad people.
Speaker A:So you're around people that are doing bad stuff, you're going to do bad stuff.
Speaker A:You know, that goes for dietarily as well.
Speaker A:The only reason coming back, like, even, even through all of that, I maintain my plant based diet.
Speaker A:You no.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:I'd wake up after the third day and be like, yo, let's get some wheatgrass juice.
Speaker A:And these dudes I'm with are like, dude, you don't need to be in a, in a juice bar.
Speaker A:You need to be in Bellevue.
Speaker A:Like what I just saw you do.
Speaker B:Right, well, tell me this.
Speaker B:So you mentioned freebase in there.
Speaker B:Is there any drug that you have not done or experimented with in your life?
Speaker A:I did everything, man.
Speaker A:Like I did heroin and luckily I didn't like it.
Speaker A:Like some people have a violent reaction.
Speaker A:Like I, I lost girl, my girlfriends to it.
Speaker A:Like, you know, friends OD.
Speaker A:My last guitar player, Todd Youth, my friend OD'd on heroin.
Speaker A:Now the fentanyls and everything.
Speaker A:So like you could sniff a bump of coke and die.
Speaker A:You know, it's just, you're playing Russian roulette.
Speaker A:But thankfully my, I had a violent reaction.
Speaker A:I shot dope when I was like 13.
Speaker A:Like I was on the streets.
Speaker A:It my, I first started running away in like 76 and all that.
Speaker A:Then 77, I was 14 and I was, you know, drug trafficking with these heroin dealers in Rockaway, these two junkies.
Speaker A:And you know, I shot heroin and I was, I got violently sick and I just didn't like it.
Speaker A:I was more into the hallucinogenics.
Speaker A:I didn't even do the cocaine.
Speaker A:The cocaine came later, you know, like I was into the.
Speaker A:The pills.
Speaker A:Placidils, two and all.
Speaker A:Like, I was just a garbage pail for every drug you could possibly imagine.
Speaker A:And it's everything, man.
Speaker B:What about a lot of alcohol in there?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, man, alcohol like crazy, you know, Like.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, a lot of.
Speaker A:A lot of Jack Daniels whiskey.
Speaker A:Like, just beer, right?
Speaker A:You know?
Speaker B:What about pot?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Also, I was a pothead.
Speaker A:Pothead.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And dust.
Speaker A:Angel dust.
Speaker A:I was selling.
Speaker A:I was selling dust for.
Speaker A:That's what got me.
Speaker A:That's what got me busted finally and sent upstate and got locked up.
Speaker A:I was selling dust.
Speaker B:So you were locked up.
Speaker B:What was this?
Speaker B:In what, prison or what?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I got put in Spotfit, which is, like, worse than Rikers Island.
Speaker A:That was in the South Bronx for 18 and under.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Mike Tyson was in there.
Speaker A:Like, you hear the stories about Spotfoot, And I was the only white dude in the whole place.
Speaker A:I had a target on me, and these Irish cops from Queens drove me there, and they were like, telling me, like, you better put.
Speaker A:You know, you better hurt the first black or Puerto Rican Spanish guy that messes with you.
Speaker A:And I was like, I'm not racist, man.
Speaker A:I don't roll like that.
Speaker A:They're like.
Speaker A:They laughed, and they're like, you're about to see a very difficult lesson.
Speaker A:The last white kid got stabbed to death or whatever in Spofford.
Speaker B:So you've been.
Speaker B:You've been straight now or you've been clean 23 years?
Speaker B:24 years.
Speaker A:My 24th year.
Speaker B:24 years.
Speaker B:That's absolutely incredible.
Speaker B:And I want to talk about.
Speaker B:I want to go through some stuff like.
Speaker B:But let's talk about how you've been able to be clean for 24 years, because that sounds like a pretty amazing feat.
Speaker B:And you're going strong.
Speaker A:So green this year.
Speaker A:Iron man number 15.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:But you.
Speaker B:You know, you talk about.
Speaker B:In the book, you have all these different strategies that you have to kind of, I think, keep the beasts at bay.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:To continue to destroy these monsters.
Speaker B:And so let me.
Speaker B:Let me just throw out a topic, and then if you could talk a little about a little bit about it.
Speaker B:So let's start with physical health.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker B:So, like, is that why you got into triathlons?
Speaker A:Well, you know, I was always a good athlete.
Speaker A:I boxed when I was locked up, I worked out.
Speaker A:They always told you in jail you got to get your weight up, and that means, like, you better be hitting the weights and all that.
Speaker A:And then the guy told me to work your program.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So these I went to, I went through the scared straight program, right?
Speaker A:They sent us to Raway, Fish Gill maximum security.
Speaker A:And the life is grouped.
Speaker A:They're never getting out.
Speaker A:They committed multiple murders.
Speaker A:They try to help the youth to not make the same mistakes.
Speaker A:So I talk about this in the book and the guy said to me, what's your program?
Speaker A:I was like, what do you mean?
Speaker A:He's like, what are you doing to better yourself while you're locked up?
Speaker A:You know, stay away from the knuckleheads.
Speaker A:They're not going nowhere.
Speaker A:Most of these people you're around, they're going to end up reoffending and get incarcerated for life, you know, off one bad mistake.
Speaker A:So I was always, I, I, you know, I also, like, I, I joined the military after lockup and I was still an addict and I was selling drugs.
Speaker A:I had a drug business in Norfolk while I was in the Navy.
Speaker A:And I got caught.
Speaker A:I was looking at, I was looking at felony drug charges.
Speaker A:I sold to undercover cops in Norfolk at this punk bar called the King's Head.
Speaker A:In they said I got set up.
Speaker A:So I had level one narcotics and they were talking like eight to 10 years in Leavenworth, you know, And I'm like, I ain't doing that time.
Speaker A:So I split.
Speaker A:So the only job that I could get right when I got out where I didn't have to, because that's how they catch you.
Speaker A:You use your Social Security number.
Speaker A:I never use my Social Security number.
Speaker A:So I got a job as a bike messenger and I was at the same company with Nelson Vales, who won the Olympic gold medal at 84.
Speaker A:And I'm riding on a girl's bike, like just doing whatever.
Speaker A:He's like, you know, if you get a real bike, you could be making serious money.
Speaker A:And they gave you a check cashing card with any name you said.
Speaker A:So I was like Edward Leo Forte or whatever.
Speaker A:Like, you know, and then you go to their bank and with the check and the check cashing card, this is in the early 80s.
Speaker A:And you could just get your money, right?
Speaker A:No, no taxes, no nothing.
Speaker A:I'm not, I'm not.
Speaker A:So my first racing bike was in the Shaky Modulus with the, with the biopace crank.
Speaker A:Yeah, egg shaped crank that they tried to bring back.
Speaker A:But yeah, then I started making like, you know, I was getting in shape.
Speaker A:And then he's like, yo, you should come and do the crit ride at night at Central Park.
Speaker A:And then all those guys.
Speaker A:George Hinkaby I met because he was friends with the Cuevas family.
Speaker A:Who I bought the bike from Andreas Paco Francisco from Spain.
Speaker A:Frame builders.
Speaker A:So then I slowly started getting into the crit rides at night and riding with Mike McCarthy and Frankie Lopez and all these, like, beast athletes.
Speaker A:And I'm keeping up with them because I'm riding, you know, 40, 50 miles every day with a freaking backpack.
Speaker A:And then I had a.
Speaker A:And then I was.
Speaker A:I worked for one of the big weed delivery services for the Pope of Pot, where you would dial 1-800-Watt-OT and I would.
Speaker A:I would do all the deliveries all over the city.
Speaker A:So I'm like, you know, riding crazy miles every day.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I saw the Ironman in with my own.
Speaker A:My late uncle, Rocco D'Angelo, and he was a cyclist from Italy.
Speaker A:I used to go biking with him.
Speaker A:And I saw that race.
Speaker A:It was on Wide World of Sports in the early 80s, and it was the Iron War race that I saw.
Speaker A:And I was like.
Speaker A:I just was.
Speaker A:It was so emotional to see what everybody was going through.
Speaker A:And then I was like, I want to do that race one day, man.
Speaker A:And so then when I hit 50, I was like, as a way to kind of challenge myself and help myself stay clean and everything and stay motivated and especially the discipline that's involved with training.
Speaker A:I did my first Ironman at 50 years old.
Speaker A:The New York City Ironman.
Speaker A:And my band, the Chrome Eggs, played Philly the night before to 3,000 people.
Speaker A:Sold out.
Speaker A:You know what those shows are like?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:People jumping all over you on the stage.
Speaker A:And somebody goes.
Speaker A:I said, you know, somebody backstage asked me if I'm going to take it easy tonight because I got an Ironman tomorrow.
Speaker A:Absolutely effing not.
Speaker A:We just broke into chaos.
Speaker A:So I went back to New York, and It's August, whatever, 11th.
Speaker A:It's 95 degrees, soaked in humidity.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And my brother drove me back from Philly, and I caught literally the last ferry to the swim start, and it was the pro ferry with all the pros on it.
Speaker A:And I'm like, hey, you want some Vega?
Speaker A:I got some vegan stuff.
Speaker A:They're like, who the hell let this guy on this boat?
Speaker A:They're all in the zen mode with their headphones, like they all want to win the race.
Speaker A:And I'm like, this newbie first timer, like, you know, nervous energy, like, trying to talk to all them.
Speaker A:They're like, somebody comes over, they're like, yeah, why don't you go over there and just leave everybody alone?
Speaker A:Racing, I don't know, 13 hours with no sleep.
Speaker A:And I had a stress fracture in my Foot.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Kept going from there.
Speaker A:You know, I.
Speaker A:I just was like, I got the bug, man.
Speaker A:You know, and it's.
Speaker A:It's a lifestyle.
Speaker A:You got to be so dialed in with your diet and your physical training and, you know, in the gym and doing.
Speaker A:I have a coach, Samantha Murphy, from, you know, she's been coaching me, I think, since that Chattanooga race I did.
Speaker A:That was on that Iron Mind thing.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, it's so.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So the physical health, I mean, you've.
Speaker B:You've.
Speaker B:You've taken to.
Speaker B:Me, you've taken that to the whole nother level, and.
Speaker B:And you've.
Speaker B:You've been going strong with it.
Speaker B:So you started the Ironmans.
Speaker B: The first one was: Speaker B:Do you have anything planned this year or.
Speaker A:No, I was supposed to just do Texas, but, you know, two weeks ago, I'm running on these roads, and I run on these back roads.
Speaker A:I live in Florida now, so.
Speaker A:And I've been running on this road for three years.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And nobody goes on these roads except for the people that have the farms there.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And these people get this malinois, which, if you know what a Belgian maliwan is, that's the attack dogs that the special forces use in the police departments.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So Monday, I'm there, and I'm running along, and the dog is, like, running down the gate.
Speaker A:And then I know what these dogs are capable of.
Speaker A:They can climb trees.
Speaker A:They're like.
Speaker A:They call them fur missiles, and it puts us paws up on the fence.
Speaker A:And, like, I'm like, oh, man, this dog.
Speaker A:So then he just calmed down, and I finished my run, Whatever.
Speaker A:And so then last Sunday, I'm doing the run, and I'm like, two and a half miles into it.
Speaker A:There he goes again.
Speaker A:Well, he runs down to the end of the fence line, and the stupid owners had a gap between the gate that closes for the car to pull in and the fence to continue that was, like, this wide.
Speaker A:So the dog comes running out across the road and tries to attack me.
Speaker A:And I had to dive over this fence, and I had already strained the ligament in my knee, so as I.
Speaker A:I had to do a Superman dive over the fence and smash my knee on the fence.
Speaker A:And my meniscus, I think I got, like, a little tear in it, and I had to pick up a stick and just be, like, bashing it.
Speaker A:Then eventually, the dog butt.
Speaker A:Bottom line, I was supposed to do Texas in honor of my brother for tunnel to towers I was raising.
Speaker A:So that was April 26th.
Speaker A:So now I can't Run.
Speaker A:I haven't been able to run at all, so.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:I had to defer the race to Chattanooga September 28th.
Speaker A:And it's kind of weird because it's the day before my brother Frank's birthday, so I was doing the race in his honor anyway.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:Yeah, and then, you know, I do Cozumel at the end of the year.
Speaker A:I have a makeup race to do there because when they transported my bike, they cracked my Di2 box on the front derailleur.
Speaker A:So I had a bike mechanical after the second loop of the bike and I had the, you know, I had to.
Speaker A:I had to pull out of the race.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, it just.
Speaker A:I'm not.
Speaker A:I'm not a pro.
Speaker A:I'm like, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Slow, you know, but it's a lifestyle to me and it keeps.
Speaker A:You know, I'm writing.
Speaker A:I'm.
Speaker A:I'm working on a one man show right now about growing up in New York City.
Speaker A:So I got a new.
Speaker A:These are all the songs for the new album.
Speaker A:I just was up in New York and so, I mean, I got a ton of stuff going on, so it's, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So I'm gonna.
Speaker B:Let me, Let me, I'm.
Speaker B:Let me change this a little bit because I.
Speaker B:I love the way you talk about how important certain things are in your life right now and how they kind of keep you.
Speaker B:Keep you clean.
Speaker B:So you just mentioned it.
Speaker B:So let me ask you this.
Speaker B:Why do you write?
Speaker A:I, you know, it's really strange.
Speaker A:Like, when I was a kid and I was locked up, I would write stories and then give them, you know, mail them to my mother and the teacher, the writing teacher, when I was locked up.
Speaker A:Like, first they did a medical event.
Speaker A:They had me on Thorazine.
Speaker A:They're like, you know, they put me on drugs when I, When I went to lockup.
Speaker A:Because they're like, this dude has the capability of, like, killing someone.
Speaker A:And I knew that that was a possibility because, you know, my mom always said my anger was way worse than my father's ever was.
Speaker A:And I had the ability to, you know, I probably could have been a better boxer than him if I wanted to go that route.
Speaker A:As a matter of fact, somebody seen me fight when I was 14 and wanted to, you know.
Speaker A:But there's.
Speaker A:I started writing as a way to work through a lot of the stuff that I was dealing with when I was locked up.
Speaker A:And then I started writing lyrics with the chrome eggs in 81 and then my other band, blood clot.
Speaker A:Back then, 44 years ago.
Speaker A:But now it's just like.
Speaker B:Do you, do you write every day?
Speaker A:Yeah, every day I do.
Speaker A:Every day.
Speaker B:For how long?
Speaker A:Since like, you know.
Speaker B:No, no, I mean every day you write, but I mean, do you have a certain.
Speaker B:Like, do you write for an hour or just however long?
Speaker A:I get up in the morning, I just.
Speaker A:Wherever the journey takes me, you know, like, I'm, I'm, I'm going over the recipes now.
Speaker A:I got through the whole book.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Going over and fine tuning the recipes and all that.
Speaker A:But yeah, I just find like, I have to.
Speaker A:If I have too many projects going on at the same time, like, I'm going to put this to rest, get this book done.
Speaker A:I try not to spread myself thin working.
Speaker A:I got, I gotta do.
Speaker A:I'm writing a 90 minute performance.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:You know, Chaz Palminteri did A Bronx Tale, right?
Speaker A:And it was about him growing up in the Bronx with the mobsters.
Speaker A:And Robert De Niro came and saw him do the play and then it became a movie.
Speaker A:And I'm just telling my tale of where I grew up in Alphabet City in the Lower east side, and all the amazing people and musicians and the crime and the violence.
Speaker A:But it was, you know, it was always running on a parallel track with the music and the art and everything that saved my life.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So you have to understand, it's like, you know, the drugs are there and I'm seeing people die and fucking get aids.
Speaker A:Excuse my French.
Speaker A:But insanity.
Speaker A:The Lower east side, Alphabet City.
Speaker A:They used to say if you go to Avenue A, you're adventurous, B, you're bold.
Speaker A:Avenue C, you're crazy.
Speaker A:Avenue D, you're dead.
Speaker A:In all the burnt out buildings down there.
Speaker A:Writing lyrics and stories by candlelight.
Speaker A:We had no windows.
Speaker A:I was taking shower, fire hydrant showers in the dead of winter.
Speaker A:Getting on my bike, like riding eight hours a day.
Speaker B:Do you find John, that.
Speaker B:So you mentioned you had a lot more anger than even your father had.
Speaker B:Have you been able to kind of squash that anger or deal with it?
Speaker B:You still have a lot of anger, a lot of anger that resides in them.
Speaker A:Like, you know, I read the Four Agreements, right?
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:Yeah, by Domigo Ruiz.
Speaker A: As a matter of fact, it was: Speaker A:It was my, my birthday present.
Speaker A:My, My friend got me tickets to see him speak in New York.
Speaker A:And it was life changing, you know, and one of the things I deal with still to this day is, you know, just from my background is taking things personally.
Speaker A:It's one of the Four Agreements.
Speaker A:Don't make assumptions, always do your best.
Speaker A:Don't take things personally and be impeccable with your word.
Speaker A:The one that gets me is, like, when people try to test me and like, you know, like, I just don't like bullies.
Speaker A:I don't like people trying to push me around.
Speaker A:And that's, I have an issue with that.
Speaker A:Instead of really realizing it's their poison that they're putting out, I take, I still take things personal sleep from time to time, but I've been able to, you know, work through a lot of the, you know, my memoir, writing the Evolution of a CRO Magnon was very, you know, it was very cleansing for me because nobody ever knew, they knew that I had a rough childhood, but they never knew to what degree put any of that.
Speaker A:And I would always come up to the, the abuse part and stop and have a breakdown and put the book down.
Speaker A:And then I went to Robert McKee's seminar, who teaches the story thing for writing, and he said something, he goes, it's not what happens to a character in whatever you're writing about.
Speaker A:It's what the character does as a result of that.
Speaker A:And that hit me because I was like, yeah, it's not what happens to us because we all go through stuff in life.
Speaker A:Everybody's journey is different, but it's what we do because of what happened.
Speaker A:And I, I, you know, I was a monk for two years.
Speaker A:I was a Hare Krishna monk.
Speaker A:I, I, yeah, you, you, in this.
Speaker B:Book, you talk about discipline.
Speaker B:Discipline trumps motivation.
Speaker B:And you, and, and, and I'd love for you to talk to people about your, your spiritual discipline, that, and how grateful you are for, for that.
Speaker B:And you, obviously, you practice it every day.
Speaker A:That's my teacher.
Speaker A:Led by example, humble, a servant of the people, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah, but like, that's the word I learned when I was a monk was sadna, your sadness, everything, your daily practice.
Speaker A:So every day I get up before the sun.
Speaker A:I, I, I do my devotions.
Speaker A:I do, you know, it's a very big part of, you know, I chant every day and try to reach out and help people.
Speaker A:And it's a, you know, Bhakti Yoga is what that is, what it is.
Speaker A:And Prabhupada brought it from India.
Speaker A:And it was about, you know, being, being of service to other people.
Speaker A:You know, people were of service to me.
Speaker A:And that's how even in my lowest points of my life, when I was like an insane person, there was always people there to set me straight and give me that compassion that I needed.
Speaker A:So I just try to, like, pay that forward now, no matter what it is.
Speaker A:Like, people write me and I get letters, and they're like, dude, I reached out to you, like, three years ago, and you sent me this amazing email, and I'm clean now for, like, you know, four years.
Speaker A:And so those are, you know, that's.
Speaker A:There's a lot of negativity that goes on with social media, but I find, like, it can also be used for very positive stuff, you know, every day.
Speaker A:So I, you know, like, I just stay.
Speaker A:I stay disciplined because, like, you know, there's days I'm not motivated, right?
Speaker A:And, you know, I'm a big follower of Goggins and all these people, and they're just like, man, discipline.
Speaker A:Discipline trumps everything because you may not be motivated to do something.
Speaker A:And there are days I don't want to get out and ride 50, 60 miles or, you know, do whatever, but it's like, it's the discipline that's, you know, because I said discipline creates the habits.
Speaker A:Habits create the routines.
Speaker A:The routines become who we are.
Speaker A:And for me, the whole plant strong thing is part of that, because it's part of what I do.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:You know, I don't want to eat the suffering of other living entities.
Speaker A:You know, Like, I.
Speaker A:I live down here, and when I go through High Springs, all back on those roads back there are all where they have the cows grazing and all the pigs and everything.
Speaker A:And then you see them put in these trucks, and they're on the main street getting ready to go to the slaughterhouse, and they're like, you just see the fear in their eyes, man.
Speaker A:And I'll be on my bike and I'll just go up and start chanting and saying some mantras and prayers for them, because I'm like, your life is about to get snuffed out because somebody wants to eat that animal, you know, and it's just.
Speaker A:That's why I practice ahimsa, you know, like, that whole Vedic way of life, and it's to do no harm, you know, Like, I don't want to.
Speaker A:You know, Joel Kahn made a great post the other day, and it was about, like, you know, oh, this whole Maha movement now.
Speaker A:Make American healthy.
Speaker A:And then they're talking about, you know, cooking stuff and beef tallow and all this stuff.
Speaker A:And I'm like, you know, the messaging is good, but it's always the devil's in the details, as I say.
Speaker A:And he pointed out the health aspects of doing all this.
Speaker A:Yeah, seed oils and, you know, hydrogenated oils are bad, but then you're going to turn around and support the torture of these animals.
Speaker A:And, you know, I saw Frederick Weissman put out a movie called Meat, and everybody should look that up because he wasn't even a vegan or anything.
Speaker A:He was just showing you the process of everything.
Speaker A:And it starts with this horse in the field, and you just see, like, the steam coming out of its nose because it's cold out and it pulls back, and there's all these other horses and cowboys.
Speaker A:And then they round up these cows and they're freaking out, and they put them in the truck.
Speaker A:And I just didn't want, like I said, immediate back to cover immediates with pushees.
Speaker A:I came from a world of violence.
Speaker A:I saw somebody murdered right in front of me when I was 14 years old.
Speaker A:I've been subjected to violence my whole life.
Speaker A:And then when I stopped eating the animals, something clicked.
Speaker A:And I was like, wow, man.
Speaker A: farians told me about that in: Speaker A:I heard about the.
Speaker A:The Green Bay killings and stuff with the police and the Rastafarians, and they was like, talking about Rastafari, Prince of Peace and eating a Hightower diet.
Speaker A:No oils, like, all this stuff, man, and no eating of animals or fish or any of this.
Speaker A:And I was like, you know, I was in the Navy.
Speaker A:I was eating freaking burgers.
Speaker A:But then a year, less than a year later, I meet this bear called the Bad Brains.
Speaker A:And they're telling me the same thing.
Speaker A:And they're these wild, just physical specimen, the singer HR and he's like, we need to hire till diet Mama not eat no animals Rasta.
Speaker A:And I was like, what?
Speaker A:And that's.
Speaker A:And then, like, that case hit me, and I ended up splitting and I went to work with them and.
Speaker A:And that's when I started the plant based.
Speaker A:I went raw.
Speaker A:I met Victorious Kavinskas and Ann Wigmore, and I worked at Prana Foods, which was an expansion.
Speaker A:He was a devotee of.
Speaker A:Of Satch Satchin Ananda, the.
Speaker A:The Integral Yoga Institute.
Speaker A:So I got to go to yoga classes.
Speaker A:So it was like I went to see, like, anybody that was speaking Sri Chin Mori.
Speaker A:No matter who it was, if it was spiritual, I was, like, soaking it up.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker B:Yeah, tell me.
Speaker B:Walk me through.
Speaker B:So your time right now we're recording this.
Speaker B:It's about a little shy of noon Florida time, but what have you.
Speaker B:What time did you wake up this morning and what did you eat and you know.
Speaker A:Yeah, you know, I, I was in Daytona beach doing something yesterday, so I got, I got back late, walked the dog.
Speaker A:You know, usually I'm up 4:35, I do my meditations, my chanting, I read some, some of the vaders, some books and then I start writing and you know.
Speaker B:When do you eat?
Speaker A:You know, it depends, like, you know, if I have some serious physical activity that I have to get done right away.
Speaker A:Usually I'm doing like, I, I don't eat late.
Speaker A:That's the one thing, you know, I always used to have a problem, you know, keeping the weight off and stuff like that because up in New York it's cold.
Speaker A:So I try to do the intermittent fasting and I got turned on to this stuff, Bondi Pure, which is like all superfoods, organic plant based.
Speaker A:So I do a scoop of that in the morning and that just gets me through whatever I have to do.
Speaker A:But usually I'll eat around 9, 10 o'clock.
Speaker A:So four hours after I wake up I get everything done and yeah, and I start moving on to the physical, you know, you know as well as I do, like if you're carrying an extra five pounds around on the bike or whatever, it's just.
Speaker A:No, no, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, you want to be lean and mean.
Speaker B:Yeah, man, you, you say John, in the second half of the book you've got all these great different tools and one of them that I love is that if you want to stay high forever, you got to take the journey inside.
Speaker A:That's it.
Speaker B:And man, how, I mean, what would you say to somebody that wants to take that journey inside but hasn't mustered up the courage to go there?
Speaker A:Well, you know what, there's two.
Speaker A:I always say two.
Speaker A:Fear is an acronym, it has two meanings.
Speaker A:Forget everything and run, or face everything and rise.
Speaker A:And usually we build these scenarios up in our mind of like a difficult task of how hard it's going to be and all this stuff and we create all of this fear based, whatever the hell.
Speaker A:And I'm just like, you know what?
Speaker A:Just get after it, you know, like I look at a, you know, Prabhupada said that man, most of the ills of society, if everybody turned inward instead of dealing with politics and all, it's, it's an endless minefield.
Speaker A:This whole political crap that's going on, this candidate, that candidate, everybody's arguing over everything.
Speaker A:It's like take all of that energy and turn it, turn it inward, you know.
Speaker A:Take all of that energy and do work on yourself.
Speaker A:I always say charity starts at home.
Speaker A:You're trying to be out here fixing everything else.
Speaker A:Are you the.
Speaker A:I just try to be the best example of, you know, Prabhupada said example is better than precept.
Speaker A:So acharya means one who leads by example.
Speaker A:That's what he was.
Speaker A:He slept on the floor, he had no possessions.
Speaker A:He would cook an entire feast and feed everybody and do the dishes before he even took a grain of rice.
Speaker A:He had no bank account, no nothing.
Speaker A:Just they're serving people non stop.
Speaker A:He said nobody should go hungry within a 10 mile radius of the temple.
Speaker A:So I'm like, he set to me that, that set the standard that, you know, that's setting the bar high.
Speaker A:And I'm like, instead of all this arguing over all of this mundane crap, turn that, turn the lens inward and see what's inside of you and fix that.
Speaker A:And that's what I always say too.
Speaker A:Focus on what you can fix.
Speaker A:Everybody's focused on things that they have no control over.
Speaker A:You know what I have control over?
Speaker A:I can get up early today.
Speaker A:I can exercise, I can meditate, I could pray, I could stay clean, I could stay sober, I could eat amazing food, help or feed somebody else.
Speaker A:I can.
Speaker A:You know, there's so many things that we do have control over and instead of arguing over all this stuff that's, you know, beyond our control.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, work with what you got, where you're at.
Speaker A:You know, that's, that's, yeah, you're.
Speaker B:One of the things you're doing now is you're, you're coaching kids, if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker B:And you're helping.
Speaker A:Yeah, I coach.
Speaker A:Well, I coach kids.
Speaker A:I have a coaching business.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So it's mindset and all that.
Speaker A:But there's parents that come and they, you know, their kids sit in on it.
Speaker A:I don't even charge them.
Speaker A:I'm like, you know, just have them sit in on the coaching session.
Speaker A:We'll do an hour.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, and then, you know, I've worked with, you know, teenagers and stuff like that because like a lot of the parents are like, yo, like read this dude's story.
Speaker A:Like, you know, you have it easy compared to what this guy had to go through.
Speaker A:And then, you know, I mean, there's people that have had it harder than me.
Speaker A:So it's, it's always, you know, we have to kill the community and like stop freaking like, you know, like, it's just there's so much division Man.
Speaker A:And it's like, if you really want to upset the establishment, uniting, come together, right?
Speaker A:To me, I'm like, that's what they don't want.
Speaker A:Their philosophy.
Speaker A:Since time immemorials.
Speaker A:Divide and conquer.
Speaker A:That's so, like.
Speaker A:That's why I love the bad brains in hr.
Speaker A:He always talked about unity, right?
Speaker A:Bob Marley talked about unity.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:One love.
Speaker A:One love and everything else.
Speaker A:Those messages and, you know, bringing people together.
Speaker A:Even Malcolm X, after he went to Mecca, and he was like, you know, I was coming, being taught this very racist doctrine from the Nation of Islam and Elijah Muhammad.
Speaker A:And then I went to Mecca and I saw people of all different colors and just worshiping God together.
Speaker A:And, you know, that's really what it's about, you know.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker B:You mentioned that gratitude is super important.
Speaker B:How do you suggest that people develop.
Speaker A:Gratitude, you know, my friend, that he passed away.
Speaker A:Me and Erica used to take care of him a lot.
Speaker A:This guy, Kevin McQuaid.
Speaker A:And he did time in prison.
Speaker A:He was on the papers, man.
Speaker A:He was robbing banks and doing all kinds of stuff.
Speaker A:And an alcoholic.
Speaker A:And he.
Speaker A:He got out of prison and they took out his intestines.
Speaker A:He had cancer.
Speaker A:He was just like.
Speaker A:And I would see him, like, passed out on a bench, you know, peeing himself and, like.
Speaker A:And I just started bringing him food, and I'm like, you know, he was a fan of the CRO mags, and I would just bring him a meal.
Speaker A:You know, I find out where he was and bring him food.
Speaker A:And then one day I walked into Angelica Kitchen in New York, and he was like, yo, I've been.
Speaker A:I've been clean six months.
Speaker A:And I'm like, I could.
Speaker A:I didn't even recognize him.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, and he said something to me, very, very important.
Speaker A:And he said, yo, Johnny, any day above the dirt is a good day.
Speaker A:You gotta give thanks for that.
Speaker A:And he passed away.
Speaker A:He relapsed and fell down the subway stairs drunk one day and went into a coma.
Speaker A:And he passed away.
Speaker A:But, you know, that always stuck with.
Speaker A:With me.
Speaker A:Like, people always would say that to me, you know, any day you're here, take advantage of it.
Speaker A:Because the truth is, all of us have that appointment with death.
Speaker A:You know, Bhagavad Gita, for one who was born.
Speaker A:Death is certain.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Pandit, who was a great philosopher in India, said, they asked, what is the greatest thing?
Speaker A:And he said, the greatest thing is that we've seen everybody before us die.
Speaker A:But somehow or another, we think that we will cheat death.
Speaker A:And it's not going to happen.
Speaker A:But the thing is, live your life with purpose while you're still here, go after those things.
Speaker A:Nothing's unattainable.
Speaker A:Impossible is a word in a fool's dictionary.
Speaker A:Everybody told me I never get a book deal, I'd never get an album out, I'd never do this, I'd never finish an Iron Man.
Speaker A:Iron man was my first triathlon.
Speaker A:I never even did a sprint.
Speaker A:And all these.
Speaker A:My coach Orion Mims was like in the bike store.
Speaker A:He's like a brother, like African American boxer, just like Crushing Everybody doing 10 hour Ironmans.
Speaker A:And like.
Speaker A:And then you know, these jocks were like, oh, I don't think you should try to do an armor.
Speaker A:And Orion goes, shut up.
Speaker A:What this guy's been through an Iron man is a walk in the park.
Speaker A:And he's my coach.
Speaker A:But it's just like, you know, just go after it, man.
Speaker A:You never know what you can accomplish until you take the action to do it.
Speaker A:And that's what it's all about, you.
Speaker B:Know, according to your, your beliefs, what do you think happens to us when we die?
Speaker A:Well, for the soul is never birth, nor death, nor what, nor having once been.
Speaker A:Does he ever cease to exist.
Speaker A:He's not slain when the body slain the consciousness, according to Bhagavad Gita.
Speaker A:And I've even talked to people who had near death experiences and all this stuff.
Speaker A:Yeah, and the consciousness lives on, right?
Speaker A:So it's just like every seven years medically we have an entirely new body.
Speaker A:Every cell in the body changes, right, every seven years.
Speaker A:So where is your child body right now?
Speaker A:When you were 10 years old, what happened to that body?
Speaker A:That body's gone, but we're still here.
Speaker A:The consciousness is still here, observing everything.
Speaker A:But that body is gone.
Speaker A:But we're still the same person.
Speaker A:And we say, my mind, my intelligence, my arm, my leg.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:So who is the possessor of those things?
Speaker A:And then when you look at a body in the, you know, in the, if you go to the wake, they're like, oh, Bobby left us.
Speaker A:Bobby's still right there.
Speaker A:So you know, who was Bobby?
Speaker A:Consciousness.
Speaker A:And that's why Prabhupada said whatever consciousness that you, you attain at the time of death to that state, you'll, you'll begin in your next life.
Speaker A:So it's this gradual progression.
Speaker A:I don't agree with this whole, you got one shot or you're going to burn into hell eternally.
Speaker A:I'm not down with that.
Speaker A:If God is all merciful, why if you led one Bad life?
Speaker A:Would you be doomed to eternity forever?
Speaker A:That's not all merciful to me.
Speaker A:So really what it is is about living this life to the fullest, trying to advance your consciousness.
Speaker A:Don't cause harm to others.
Speaker A:Live every moment to the fullest.
Speaker A:Don't take intoxication.
Speaker A:Now, if you're taking drugs, man, it's.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:Fentanyl is in everything.
Speaker A:It's in ecstasy.
Speaker A:This guy I know did a bump of coke and laid in a coma and died because it had fentanyl in it.
Speaker A:You're playing Russian roulette with your life.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's why my message is, man, you don't need alcohol destroys muscle tissue.
Speaker A:It ages you, you know, I mean, I'm doing pretty good, man.
Speaker A:My six pack coming in at 63 years old this year.
Speaker B:You got me.
Speaker B:You got me by, by a couple months.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, but you know what it is?
Speaker A:It's about putting.
Speaker A:Listen, you're either going to put the work in to do positive stuff which is going to produce positive results in your life, or you're going to do negative things and have a negative result.
Speaker A:So I look at it this way.
Speaker A:I'm trying to live my life so that when I take my last breath in this particular body, you know, Prabhupada said everything is a test.
Speaker A:The final exam is death.
Speaker A:What are you going to think of at the time of death?
Speaker A:If you think of God, you'll go like he said.
Speaker A:If you meditate and chant Hare Krishna, you're going to go to be with Krishna, you know, in the, in the, in the spiritual world or whatever.
Speaker A:But I just.
Speaker A:And, and you know what?
Speaker A:Somebody's like, well, how do you know there's an amp?
Speaker A:Well, you know what?
Speaker A:Even if there isn't, I'm living my life beautifully, man.
Speaker A:And if this is all there is, I'm taking full advantage of it, homie.
Speaker A:You just keep going and doing your blow and telling your war stories in the bars.
Speaker A:Back when I was a kid, you know, it's like, yeah, what's the loss of diminution?
Speaker A:You know, you're out there, you're, you're, you're, you're living a clean life.
Speaker A:I'm able, you know, I'm able to.
Speaker A:I swam two and a half miles in the pool the other day, you know, I'm able to ride my, like, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's, it's a beautiful thing, you know, and making all this, like, beautiful food at my house, which there's no restaurants here, so we cook all the time at the house.
Speaker A:And thank you for all that.
Speaker A:Plant strong.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:All of you.
Speaker A:The box you sent me of the chili and just all stuff, man.
Speaker A:It's like next level.
Speaker A:My partner, you forgot organic on everything.
Speaker B:Well, we're not everything, but we're almost everything.
Speaker A:A lot of it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Taste of it and everything.
Speaker A:I was like, wow, man, you're really killing it.
Speaker B:Like, thanks, jj.
Speaker B:So tell me this for anybody that, that wants to follow you, that wants to purchase the book and, or, or you know, any of your books, where can they go if they want you to coach them?
Speaker B:How do they get involved with your coaching program?
Speaker A:Discipline.com.
Speaker B:John Joseph.
Speaker B:Discipline dot com.
Speaker A:Yeah, and it's.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:I didn't put this book on Amazon just because, like, you know, I've had the other books on there and that, you know, Jeff Bezos just, he takes so much of an author's money.
Speaker A:I'm just like, yep.
Speaker A:You know, and I also wanted to be like, you know, with this type of book, a lot of people bought the book that was sending it to other people or they're struggling themselves.
Speaker A:So I wanted to be able to put a little like inscription in there to motivate them.
Speaker B:So like you did for me.
Speaker A:What does it say?
Speaker A:To my brother, RIP God bless you and the family.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So, you know, it's kind of a hands on.
Speaker A:I don't know what's going to happen with the next book.
Speaker A:I'm, you know, I'd be looking maybe for a publisher, I think, but we'll see.
Speaker A:Because, you know, the publishing world is freaky right now too, people.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:Yeah, dive.
Speaker A:So, yeah.
Speaker A:And the audiobooks do really well, like, because I read it myself and people.
Speaker A:Oh, it's like these bands are like, bro, we listened to evolution like for 17 hours.
Speaker A:Nobody said nothing.
Speaker B:It was, oh, my God.
Speaker B:That must have taken you three weeks to record that.
Speaker A:Oh, my God, it's.
Speaker A:I gotta finish up the edits on this now too.
Speaker A:I did the audiobook of that, so.
Speaker B:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker A:But it's like I try to just finish one thing at a time.
Speaker A:So I'm getting this book done, getting these album done.
Speaker A:This is a one man show.
Speaker A:I got two races coming up later in the year.
Speaker B:Yeah, you're staying busy.
Speaker A:I'm a work in progress, man.
Speaker A:You know, it's like that's, you know.
Speaker B:Well, we all are.
Speaker A:You get out of something, whatever you put into it, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:You know, as we close out here, John I think, you know, you have all these mantras, and the one that I love, that I think is.
Speaker B:That's very applicable in my life is mood follows action.
Speaker A:Rich roll.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:Did he?
Speaker B:Did he?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Mood follows action, not the other way around.
Speaker A:You know, just like you may not feel like doing something, but, you know, I've had that many times with running, especially the bike.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:It's always the running that's like Achilles now, you know?
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker B:Well, especially as we get a little older too, you know, it tells you, man.
Speaker A:And hey, hey.
Speaker A:And I'll be out five miles into the run sweating and the endorphins going.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And I'm like, how the hell was I ever thinking about flaking on this right now?
Speaker A:I just feel amazing.
Speaker A:And that's what I always try to use to motivate me, I guess, is like trying to reminisce on how I feel, you know, when I do the work.
Speaker A:And like Steven Pressfield said, when you resist against something and give into the resistance, that's when we start doing all the mental suffering.
Speaker A:Because every little thing that you resist against it start that you give in.
Speaker A:And it could just be straightening out your office, you know, you keep it, it's gonna manifest into bigger things in your life, you know, and it's true.
Speaker A:Simple as making your bed in the morning, man.
Speaker A:You know, putting your stuff away, whatever.
Speaker A:Like, it's just like, you know.
Speaker B:You know what?
Speaker B:You know, I look around just at your office right now, and what I love, and it's number one on your list of 10 things for people to, I think to kind of help them out, is get organized.
Speaker B:Yeah, right.
Speaker B:And look at that, man.
Speaker B:Yeah, I love it.
Speaker A:And I got pictures of Prabhupada back there.
Speaker A:That's my little something I'm writing.
Speaker A:I got another board over here for the One man show and.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Just, you know, Prabhupada always said you can tell a person's consciousness by the way they keep their space.
Speaker A:So, like, I'm already all over the place with everything.
Speaker A:Like, you know, like, I'll be talking about something and then just change.
Speaker A:Look at that carrot is like, wow.
Speaker A:So I just find the more focused I can be and have my workplace clean and organized and, you know, it helps me a lot.
Speaker B: at I met you, I think, was in: Speaker B: It might have been: Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:I don't know, it was that shortly after I wrote the Engine 2 diet.
Speaker B:You'd met Gene Stone at that ice cream store.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Came down here.
Speaker B:You brought me a bag of.
Speaker B:Of New York City cat ball caps, T shirts, firefighter, you know, gear.
Speaker B:You were incredible.
Speaker B:But I remember thinking, this guy has got more energy than any human being I have ever met in my life, period.
Speaker A:If I still drink, if I drank coffee, I'd be bouncing all over the walls.
Speaker B:But it seems like you've mellowed some over the last 15.
Speaker A:You know, it's.
Speaker A:It still, you know, gets kicked up a notch occasionally.
Speaker B:You know, you're right.
Speaker A:Try to be more Zen.
Speaker A:Like, Zen, like, you know, that's a cool shirt.
Speaker A:That's definitely a cool CBD company, man.
Speaker A:So I.
Speaker A:I CBD for inflammation and pain and.
Speaker A:Yeah, so, yeah, man, definitely works.
Speaker A:It's all organic and, you know, but yeah, just.
Speaker B:Well, listen, jj, destroying monsters.
Speaker B:Anybody that's out there that wants not only an amazing read, but wants tools for helping you with whatever it is.
Speaker B:Eating, gambling, drugs, alcohol.
Speaker B:What else, jj, Last night.
Speaker A:Yeah, like the gambling stuff that.
Speaker A:It's, you know, I knew one friend of mine in New York, he was addicted to scratch off.
Speaker A:Like, I would go in his car and he'd have like a pile of.
Speaker A:I'm like, dude, what is this?
Speaker A:He's like.
Speaker A:And he had an addiction to scratch off.
Speaker A:Like, you know, and he's spending thousands of dollars.
Speaker A:And then last night there was a thing on CBS I just caught, and it was all about online gambling.
Speaker A:And we could be.
Speaker A:Let's get addicted to the things that are good in life.
Speaker A:You know, you're not going to live in a void.
Speaker A:You're.
Speaker A:You're either going to do good stuff or bad stuff.
Speaker A:So I'm done.
Speaker A:I'm done doing the bad stuff.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, and that's why, you know, I find the diet, you know, really helps me a lot.
Speaker A:You know, just.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's part of my routine.
Speaker A:You know, it's like, pray, eat good, you know, the whole nine yards.
Speaker A:Physical activity, help others.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's part of the whole journey.
Speaker A:And I don't, I don't wanna cause suffering to other living entities just because I want to eat, you know, a part of their body or whatever.
Speaker A:It's like, it's totally unnecessary.
Speaker A:I love your dad.
Speaker A:I always quote him and quote you and quote a lot of the people that have been doing this.
Speaker A:Brendan Brazier.
Speaker A:Yesterday was his birthday and he was like, you know, thrive was like one.
Speaker A:He was like one of the first dudes, like, he was credit he deserves because a lot of people came along, but is like a pioneer in this whole.
Speaker A:He introduced me to rich role.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:What.
Speaker B:You know, as we close out here, you are a huge believer in, in giving back service.
Speaker B:What's, what's the last thing you did in an act of service?
Speaker B:Because I know you go to New York, you feed the homeless.
Speaker A:I go out on the line and feed people, man.
Speaker A:It's like you meet the most amazing people.
Speaker A:And I always say, don't judge somebody just because they're having a tough time or they're homeless at the, at the, at the moment.
Speaker A:You know, it's like everybody has a story of what brought them to the streets.
Speaker A:You know, I always, I told that story in the PMA Effect, one of my books.
Speaker A:And I said, yeah, you know, this guy would come to the food and he would never talk to anybody.
Speaker A:And I, you know, I just started sitting down with him, eating with him, you know, at the, in Tompkins Square Park.
Speaker A:And you know, it turns out like he was a big shot Wall street broker and making like high six figures a year to condo in Battery Park City, the summer house upstate, you know, the house in the Hamptons, all the.
Speaker A:He had everything.
Speaker A:And then his wife and children were killed by a drunk driver and he just lost his will to do anything.
Speaker A:He stopped going to work, he started drinking, he lost his apartment, he lost his job.
Speaker A:The guy was living under the FDR man in boxes and stuff like, and like, it's wild because I wrote about after talking to him for a while and then he would help us set up.
Speaker A:I just try to engage him, you know, and, and I was like, yo, what?
Speaker A:And he told me like, like, you know, what had happened.
Speaker A:And I was like, then he just disappeared.
Speaker A:And I was like, man, I hope this dude didn't do something.
Speaker A:And then he showed up one day in a suit, all cleaned up.
Speaker A:I'm like, yo, like, I didn't, I don't remember his name.
Speaker A:And he was like, you know, I went to the Manhattan Bridge and I was going to jump off.
Speaker A:And in my mind's eye, my, I saw my children and they didn't want me to do it.
Speaker A:And he said from that point on, he collapsed on the bridge and just broke down sobbing.
Speaker A:And then he went to rehab and got help and, you know, came out of it and anybody, you know, I've been through it too.
Speaker A:You know, we don't know what people are going through.
Speaker A:And that's where compassion really comes in.
Speaker A:Don't judge somebody.
Speaker A:Like, I've seen the most incredible changes take place in people when some compassion was directed their way.
Speaker A:You know, and we're, you know, we're.
Speaker A:We're living in a world now where it's like, it's cool to be a jerk.
Speaker A:You know, you say stuff online against somebody and you think like, oh, you know, but you don't know what it's doing to people.
Speaker A:Like, this guy I know is his daughter committed suicide because a bunch of bullies just kept being mean to her because of her weight.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's like, you don't know what you're doing to people.
Speaker A:Just, you know, don't be a jerk, you know, and.
Speaker A:And show some compassion toward people and, you know.
Speaker B:Jj, did you ever.
Speaker B:Did you ever think about killing yourself?
Speaker A:You know, I never sat there with suicidal thoughts like, yo, I'm gonna do this.
Speaker A:Mm.
Speaker A:But there was times I had guns and was like, you know, when I was a crackhead and I said this, I was robbing some of the most dangerous drug dealers.
Speaker A:And I remember I hit.
Speaker A:I started out in California and I was dating this model.
Speaker A:She parents lived in Santa Monica on Pacific coast highway in a mansion.
Speaker A:And, you know, it started out this amazing.
Speaker A:Like, I was already an addict by the time a year finished, we were in a frigging crack hotel in Compton.
Speaker A:And I just remember.
Speaker A:And I wrote about it in the book, like, I wish one of these drug deals would just kill me and end my misery.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I don't know why I never thought, like, I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna.
Speaker A:I'm gonna take my life.
Speaker A:But I was taking my life at.
Speaker A:At a slow death.
Speaker A:That's what my brother did to himself.
Speaker A:Addiction is a slow death.
Speaker A:There's not gonna be any good outcome from it.
Speaker A:And I knew that I was gonna be killed or kill somebody or do something stupid.
Speaker A:And, you know, there was one where I really hit rock bottom.
Speaker A:And I was crawling around on the floor in this crack hotel in Compton looking for little rocks in the filthy carpet, like.
Speaker A:And I was just the worst addict you could and.
Speaker A:But I was violent too.
Speaker A:Something I had to consider every day was like, if these drug dealers catch me, they're going to kill me.
Speaker A:You know, I.
Speaker A:I robbed this Colombian cartel member in.
Speaker A:In New York and threw him out of my car at 50 miles an hour after beating him in the head with a pipe.
Speaker A:Like, I was a wild dude.
Speaker A:I mean, I was.
Speaker A:My addiction had me doing, you know, 500 push ups a day.
Speaker A:And like, and I trained in martial arts, so it was always like.
Speaker A:I always knew, like, okay, you get the first.
Speaker A:I wasn't just like, take your best shot.
Speaker A:No, that's not the way I learned.
Speaker A:The way I learned was strike first and make it count.
Speaker A:And that's how I was.
Speaker A:And I knew for a fact.
Speaker A:I was like, somebody's gonna kill me.
Speaker A:And I wish it would happen, but thank God, you know, I'm here to tell.
Speaker A:I'm here to tell the story and more importantly, to encourage others that no matter what you're going through, you could get out of it.
Speaker A:Man.
Speaker A:You just have to, you know, you have your one day people.
Speaker A:And the day one people, right?
Speaker A:One day people are like, one day I'm going to get clean.
Speaker A:One day I'll stop eating crap food.
Speaker A:One day I'll go to the gym.
Speaker A:That day never come.
Speaker A:The day one people say, today's the day.
Speaker A:And I had to say, today's the day.
Speaker A:And I didn't go to rehab.
Speaker A:I had to walk past all the dealers in Alphabet City going, yo, what's up, my man?
Speaker A:Yo, your credit's good.
Speaker A:And they're sitting there smoking rocks.
Speaker A:I had to walk.
Speaker A:I had the kick addiction in the belly of the beast.
Speaker A:I couldn't.
Speaker A:I had warrants still, you know, Like, I had federal warrants for 15 years.
Speaker A:I couldn't go to a friggin.
Speaker A:I couldn't go to a hospital.
Speaker A:I couldn't go to nothing.
Speaker A:The minute they start checking me out, that's it.
Speaker A:And I was doing all this wild stuff while I was a fugitive.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:The other wild stuff is like.
Speaker B:Well.
Speaker A:I would have got caught doing any of that on top of splitting.
Speaker A:I mean, the statute of limitations ran out on the drug case.
Speaker A:It was seven years.
Speaker A:But being AWOL never goes away.
Speaker A:And if they catch you, it's a lot worse.
Speaker B:So after seven years, you're.
Speaker B:You're good.
Speaker B:They can't press charges on you.
Speaker A:No, the drug case, like, it's a seven.
Speaker A:Seven year statute of limitations on the drug case in Norfolk.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, right.
Speaker A:So, like, that went away, but what they charged me with was being awol.
Speaker B:Oh, I got you.
Speaker A:I had to deal with the government stuff.
Speaker A:And then I got a lawyer.
Speaker A:And yeah, they were like, this kid was messed up.
Speaker A:His enlistment, everything was just like, this is what he went.
Speaker A:They gave me, ended up giving me an honorable discharge and even offered me all my medical benefits from the va.
Speaker A:I didn't take it.
Speaker A:I'm like, I'm not going to be A drain on the system.
Speaker A:I didn't, you know, I didn't complete my contract with the military, but I was an addict when I went in.
Speaker A:The day that I went to boot camp, me and my brother smoked four bags of angel dust.
Speaker A:I went to boot camp high on dust.
Speaker A:I've never been on a plane before.
Speaker A:And they had us go to Fort Hamilton and get on a military flight to take us to the airport.
Speaker A: never even been on a plane in: Speaker A:Went from like lock up to boot camp.
Speaker B:JJ, I could talk to you for eight hours.
Speaker B:So, so here's, here's what I love.
Speaker B:And you say this in the book.
Speaker B:If this book just helps one person, one person, it's been worth it.
Speaker B:And I can guarantee you you've helped lots and lots of people.
Speaker A:So, yeah, everybody has bookshelves full of books.
Speaker A:It's not what's in those books.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:Do we apply it to our life and change?
Speaker A:When I read a book, I write things down.
Speaker A:Like I read, I, I read this recently, right.
Speaker A:The 12 week year about goal setting and breaking things down.
Speaker A:So every book that I, I read, I try to.
Speaker A:It's not how many books we read, it's how many books that we apply the knowledge to.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because otherwise it's useless.
Speaker A:If you say, oh, I read all these books, but you don't do what's in the book, what's the value of that?
Speaker A:It's knowledge that's, that's applied to your life.
Speaker A:That's where we see the change.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So when I read stuff from you and you, you know, the, the, the Engine 2 and everything else, I, I was like, oh, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna apply this stuff.
Speaker A:Or, you know, it's, it's what we apply and that's what I say.
Speaker A:If you do what's in this book or you do what's in the PMA effect.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Any of these books, you're going to come out better because of it.
Speaker A:You know, I'm spilling my guts in these books because that's, you know, that's what my writing teacher, Robert McKee said.
Speaker A:I don't have his book handy.
Speaker A:He said, always write the truth.
Speaker A:Always write the truth.
Speaker A:Don't hold my back lit, you know, and.
Speaker B:Well, you certainly did in destroying monsters.
Speaker B:And I'm so glad that you were able to destroy your monsters and be with us today and JJ doing it.
Speaker A:Still doing it.
Speaker B:You sure are.
Speaker B:So I look forward to the next time that you and I get to give each other a big old squeeze in.
Speaker B:In the.
Speaker B:In the meantime.
Speaker B:In the meantime, you.
Speaker B:You keep it real the way nobody else does.
Speaker A:Hey, man.
Speaker A:You too, bro.
Speaker B:So can you give me a plan?
Speaker B:Strong fist bump on the way out.
Speaker A:Boom.
Speaker A:Boom.
Speaker B:JJ until next time.
Speaker A:Yes, brother.
Speaker A:God bless.
Speaker A:Thank you, Rip.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:Destroying Monsters is available now exclusively on John's website.
Speaker B:John Joseph discipline.com if you or someone you love is suffering from addiction, his book may be a source of hope and light in a very dark time.
Speaker B:I'll be sure to put a link in today's show notes to make it super easy to order.
Speaker B:Thank you John for unapologetically being you.
Speaker B:You are a one of a kind and I love you for it.
Speaker B:Until next week, thanks so much for listening and always, always keep it Plan Strong.
Speaker B:The Plan Strong podcast team includes Carrie Barrett, Lori Kordowich, and Amy Mackey.
Speaker B:If you like what you hear, do us a favor and share the show with your friends and loved ones.
Speaker B:You can always leave a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
Speaker B:And while you're there, make sure to hit that follow button so that you never miss an episode.
Speaker B:As always, this and every episode is dedicated to my parents, Dr.
Speaker B:Caldwell B.
Speaker B:Esselstyn Jr.
Speaker B:And Ann Cryo Esselstyn.
Speaker B:Thanks so much for listening.
