In this episode host Upendra Varma welcomes Matt Ford, co-founder and CEO of Prism FM, a vertical SaaS solution for the live music industry.

Here are the talking points,

Product:

• Prism FM organizes all elements of planning live events, including financials, paperwork, payments, and accounting.

Understanding the Customers:

• Prism serves various customer profiles, including music venue owners, performing art centers, Broadway organizers, and talent agencies.

Origins and Background:

• Matt's journey into building Prism stemmed from his experience as a concert promoter and tech entrepreneur.
• He identified the industry's need for a software system to streamline operations.

Initial Growth and Challenges:

• Matt initially closed the first 20 deals personally, leveraging his network and attending conferences.
• Transitioning from founder-led sales to a team-based approach, Prism explored channels like SEO/SEM and traditional marketing.

Sales Process and Pricing Strategy:

• Sales cycles vary, with smaller deals closing quicker and larger deals taking longer.
• Prism employs a sophisticated sales pitch focusing on price validation and showcasing value through time and efficiency gains.

Product Marketing and Network Effects:

• Word of mouth plays a significant role due to inherent network effects, with existing users advocating for Prism within their networks.
• Product marketing emphasizes the platform's ability to connect and streamline workflows between venues and talent agencies.

Team and Product Development:

• Prism's team consists of 26 members primarily focused on product development, engineering, sales, and customer support.
• Matt underscores the importance of in-house product development, emphasizing quality over outsourcing.

Funding and Vision:

• Prism recently closed a $5 million Series B round, totaling $15 million in funding.
• Matt envisions Prism becoming an industry standard within the live music sector, with plans for expansion and potential acquisitions.

Future Growth:

• While specific revenue targets remain uncertain, Matt believes Prism has the potential to reach hundreds of millions in recurring revenue.
• The focus remains on evolving the product to meet industry needs and capitalize on network effects.

Yeah.

2

Hello everyone.

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Welcome to the B2B SaaS podcast.

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I'm your host Binz Overmind.

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Today, we have Matt Ford with us.

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Matt here is the co founder and

CEO of a company called Prism FM.

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Hey Matt, welcome to the show.

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Matt Ford: Hey, really

grateful to be here.

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Thank you.

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Upendra Varma: All right, Matt.

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Let's try to understand,

right, what Prism is, right?

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And why customers are even paying

you money in the first place.

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Matt Ford: I just, I still ask

myself that question also, so I don't

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know if I can answer that for you.

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All jokes aside, Prism is a vertical SaaS

solution for the live music industry.

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So everyone who professionally

plans concerts is our concerts are

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live events, uh, comedy, Broadway.

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Um, And, uh, yeah, they pay us

to use our software system and

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our software system organizes all

elements of planning an event.

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So from, uh, all the financial

surrounding event, the, all the

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paperwork, the payments, the financial

reporting, the accounting all in

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one like purpose built system.

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Upendra Varma: And who exactly are

these people who are paying you?

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Right?

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So I'll just talk a bit about them.

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Matt Ford: Yeah, we have a few

customer profiles that the software

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works really well for music, venue

owners, people who run performing art

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centers, uh, Broadway organizers, and

then we have the talent side of the

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business, which is, um, talent agency.

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So people who represent the band and are

doing like the business of the bookings.

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Upendra Varma: That makes a lot of sense.

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Right?

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So, and let's, let's move on

to understanding a bit about

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your customers here, right?

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Because I think it's pretty clear

and it's a clear vertical SaaS here.

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So, so just, just give us

some context here, right?

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How did it even start?

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Right?

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How did you sort of, you know,

Come up with this idea of, you

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know, starting a SaaS in this

particular vertical niche, right?

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What's your background and

how did it all start for you?

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Matt Ford: Well, first off, I didn't,

I didn't even know the word vertical

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SAS, to be honest, until I was like

many years into building prism.

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So I didn't start off aspiring

to create a vertical SAS company.

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Um, it just so happened

that it worked out that way.

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Um, and you know, really I was,

I've just been following my passion.

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Um, and you know, so taught myself how

to code in college, started a company.

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It was successful in the live music space.

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Um, we had hundreds of thousands of users.

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I worked with a bunch of, you

know, really got something off the

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ground and proven, proven myself.

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And then a lot of projects

just started coming my way.

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And one of those projects that I

found really interesting was, uh,

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Was a, uh, um, a festival system that

I helped build out with a partner.

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Um, just like a way for people

to organize music festivals.

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And I actually dog fooded the

technology myself and started a

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music festival so that I could

really understand the technology.

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Um, I was like early twenties, like

pretty scrappy, crazy idea to just say,

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Oh yeah, let me just, I'm a tech guy.

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Let me just like start up a festival.

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Um, but the festival really

worked and it led to me getting

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a bunch of, um, opportunities to

book venues in and around Austin.

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I ran the festival for four years.

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I almost like became a concert promoter.

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Um, I almost lost my identity

as a tech entrepreneur and

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became a concert promoter.

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And I think, you know, that's what

helped me deeply understand the space.

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And then just through my experience

in the problem myself and meeting

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other organizers of concerts.

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Um, I saw that they were all running

their business off of spreadsheets

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that, you know, bedding together

quick books with calendars, with

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spreadsheets and, and no one had a

really great kind of system of truth.

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And, you know, given my software

background, I could, you know, see

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that and, um, and, you know, made

it come to life and called it prism.

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And I've been working on it ever since.

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And this was about like 20, we

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It took all of 2017 to build

it and get it off the ground.

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And then 2018 was our coming out year.

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Upendra Varma: Got it.

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And what exactly were you

doing before you started Prism?

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Was, were you doing some sort of

consultancy or what was that exactly?

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Matt Ford: Yeah, so I, so there

was a company that predated

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Prism, um, and it was part concert

promoter and part software.

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So I had created like an Airbnb

for venues and artists to match.

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Um, so I had over a thousand bands signed

up in Austin and I was really mostly

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using it myself to like have a roster

of bands that I was booking personally.

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We never really succeeded in

getting other kind of professional

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venues to use the software.

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I don't think it was the right, um,

I've seen this, I've seen this kind

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of idea get tried many, many, many

times, like Airbnb for booking.

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Um, and there's many reasons why

it, you know, I could tell you why

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I don't think it is economically

feasible, at least currently.

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Um, but you know, that, that led me

realizing that it wasn't like the,

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it wasn't like the core booking kind

of network that the industry needed.

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It was more of like a,

uh, like a salesforce.

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com super customized for the industry to

like kind of, to ha to handle the fire

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hose that they all are drinking from

on a daily basis, as opposed to adding

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more complexity to their organization.

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Um, so that's, yeah, that's what I was

doing for Prism was I was, it was, you

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know, part booking, part software system.

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Upendra Varma: All right.

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So let's, let's come back to today, right?

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So, so how many customers

are we talking about today?

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How many paying customers are

you, are using Prism today?

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Matt Ford: We have 315 organizations,

something like that, booking over

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10, 000 venues around the world and

a hundred thousand concerts and, um,

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in total, there's about a, a billion

dollars of payments flowing through Prism

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Upendra Varma: And then give

us a sense of how they pay you.

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Is it, is it, is it simply a subscription

based platform or do you take a cut

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on, you know, in terms of the revenue

that, that goes through your platform?

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What happens?

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Matt Ford: it's purely subscription

right now, which is determined by the

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size of their business by a sales rep

and, um, and it's upsold on renewal,

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like we don't currently have a lot,

any like automation built into.

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Um, the SAS fees, like, Oh,

turn on this module or add a.

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No, like user account or, um, we don't

have anything feature gated really.

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Um, it's just, we, we have account

management that handles upsell and, um,

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and sales reps that like really, you know,

right sides, the deals as they come in.

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Uh, we do plan to take, um, eventually a

cut of transactions process through prism.

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Um, but that's not yet.

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Um, we're not doing that yet.

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Upendra Varma: And then how big of a

deals are we talking about Matt here?

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And so approximately, is

it a thousand dollar deal?

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Is it a 10, 000 deal?

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Is it a hundred thousand dollar deal?

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How much do your organizations

pay you typically on average?

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Matt Ford: Yeah.

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On the high end, we have folks,

you know, deep into the hundreds

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of thousands of dollars.

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And on the low end, we go down to like 5,

000 a year and a lot of stuff in between.

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So it's, it's pretty, it's pretty wide.

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Upendra Varma: that median?

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What's that median look like?

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Something that you sort of

focus on a regular basis.

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Matt Ford: Oh, like maybe, maybe

like 15, 000 a year, 12, 000 a year.

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That's that's yeah.

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Upendra Varma: That

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Matt Ford: mean, it's a lot

of everything to be honest.

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Upendra Varma: it always is.

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So I'm just, I'm just sort of trying to

understand your sales motion because I'm

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going to ask a lot of questions there.

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So just trying to get a sense

of what that deal looks like.

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Matt Ford: Our, our scatterplot is all

over the place, but you could imagine

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that, you know, it's a, it's a higher

volume of deals on the lower end,

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the medium to lower end and a smaller

volume on the higher end, um, that

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we would like, you know, that would

be amazing if it was reversed, but

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it seems to be that way of the world.

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Upendra Varma: And then approximately how

much revenue are you doing today, right?

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Approximate numbers totally work.

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Just to get a sense of

where you are as a company.

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Matt Ford: Um, yeah, we're, we're, uh,

I'm going to be intentionally vague

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just cause we don't publicize our

revenue, but you know, we're, we're

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below 10 million in recurring revenue.

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Well, well below

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Upendra Varma: you above five, 6 million?

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Is that

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Matt Ford: you could infer that if you

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Upendra Varma: sure?

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Yeah, I think that's

more than enough for me.

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Right.

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So, so just want to get a sense

of how you're growing as well.

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Right.

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So.

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Over the past 12

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Matt Ford: Yeah.

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We've been, we've been

growing since our inception.

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We've been growing around like a hundred

percent year over year and sustain.

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I mean, early on, like law of small

numbers, like we had one year where

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we went from 40 K to 400 K and that

was 10 X, but You know, um, but you

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know, after our initial kind of pop,

we, we've been sustaining about,

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you know, two X year over year.

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Upendra Varma: got it, right.

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So enough about the numbers, right?

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So I want to understand what's happening

and what's working for you, right?

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So the past 12 months, right?

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So just help us understand

where you're getting all of

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these new customers from, right?

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What's really been working for you

purely from a top of funnel perspective,

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where are they discovering you?

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Matt Ford: It, I mean, it's, there's

no, no silver bullet right now.

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Like I think, you know, the product

has built in Network effects.

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So, um, there's a ton of

world and word of mouth.

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Um, like if you, if you are a talent

agent and you use Prism and the promoters

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are using Prism, you, you want the

promoters to use Prism because it

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saves you massive amounts of time and

it's a better organ to organization.

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So there's a, there's a lot of like

kind of multi sided pressure to join

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the network and we're, we're leaning

in on that more and more and more, like

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some of the best things If you can pull

it off the best marketing strategy is

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like products, you know, um, and all

the paperwork that leaves prism has our

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logo on it and our marketing website.

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So we generate a lot of marketing just

through product use, which is fantastic.

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Um, but then we do traditional

marketing, SEO, SCM, and we have

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sales reps go to conferences.

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Um, we have sales reps work relationships

and, um, and, you know, I, I do a podcast

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similar to you do here and blast out

to the network and, um, just every,

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we try to leave no stone unturned in

terms of like top of funnel strategies.

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Upendra Varma: So I'm going to ask

you a bit of a question here, right?

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So if you were to pick two

channels, that's, that's, that

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you would really not want to sort

of invest your time into, right?

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What are those two channels which

contributed to most of this, you

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know, brand awareness or, you

know, new customers coming through,

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coming through that funnel?

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Matt Ford: Well, what are

the two that if I had to do

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Upendra Varma: Yeah, that's,

that's really been working for you.

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Matt Ford: product marketing, um,

and I'd say it's a toss up between

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conferences and SEO and SEM.

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Upendra Varma: Got it.

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All right.

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So, so now let's, let's sort of understand

a bit about your product marketing here,

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because that's, that's something that

unique that I've seen over, you know,

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with respect to your company, just

talk about how it all works, right?

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So the way I'm understanding you, you

sell your product to a bunch of business

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users and they sort of onboard more people

into the network and they sort of start

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seeing it and then that sort of spirals

up like what, how does it exactly work?

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Can you just explain that?

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Matt Ford: Yeah, so when you're when

you're planning one concert, you have

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oversimplified, you have the venue,

and then you have the talent agency

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and the venue and the talent agency

coordinate an amazing amount of details.

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Like the the first thing they do

is generate like a pro forma of the

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show, we call it an offer, and it lays

out all the financials of the event.

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And they send that to the agent, the

agent, if they're not using prison,

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the agent, like just kind of copies

and paste that information into their

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system, generates a contract with

all the, and, and these, these deal

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points have like probably 30 deal

points that are meaningful and matter.

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So the, the data entry

is extremely tedious.

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Uh, and then all through the life

cycle of the event, they're just doing

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all these things that, you know, a

software platform can handle really

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easily, but if they're not connected.

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Like it just turns out

to be a bunch of emails.

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So, um, if, if the venue and the agent

is both using prism, the, the deal

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points are all translated perfectly.

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The ticket sales update in real time,

the settlement numbers update in

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real time, the payment information.

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I mean, it's a nine day difference

from one, two people are using

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prism compared to like when one

is in prison and one is not.

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So, um, it's really, it's like,

uh, Implicit network effects.

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There's not like an explicit

way for someone to say.

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Hey, just join prism here

without like talking to us.

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And perhaps we'll get

into that more and more.

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But, um, right now it's like very

much like, uh, you know, yeah, it's,

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our partners want their partners

to join prism and go through our

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onboarding process so that, so that

it's easier to do business together.

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So that's what

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Upendra Varma: essentially you have

a talent partner as a customer.

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So naturally they end up sort of, you

know, bringing all of this, when you,

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when you sort of, when you manage

managers to your platform as well.

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Right.

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And the reverse also works.

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Matt Ford: Yeah.

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And then it's just an amazing

amount of word of mouth.

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Like when we, when we're, you

know, now that we're successful in

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Austin, Texas, like the people who

all run venues in Austin, like.

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Know each other really well and

they're like Hey, you should use Prism.

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We use Prism.

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It's like massively helpful.

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And at first, sometimes

they were, they were caught.

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And they're like, Oh, they

saw it as an advantage.

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They're like, Oh, we, we want to, we

don't, I don't know if we want to tell

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anyone about Prism because we want

it for ourselves, but over time folks

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realize that the more people use it,

the better the system gets and yeah.

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Upendra Varma: And that

makes a lot of sense.

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Let's just talk about

the sales cycle here.

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Right?

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So, so when somebody starts

discovering you, what does it take

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for you to sort of close that 50,

000 deal that you talked about?

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Matt Ford: Yeah, I mean, um, once again,

our scatterplot is like very diverse.

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Um, but you know, if we cut through

it, it averages about 45 days and it's

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exactly what you think you would like.

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The typical small deal closes in 30 days.

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The typical big deal

might close in 90 days.

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But then there's examples

of bull flip flopping.

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So, um, you know, like, yeah, once

again, the, the mean of the mean cutting

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through the noise is smaller deals

take quicker, larger deals take longer.

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Um, but it, but we do have a lot

of like deviation in our mean.

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Upendra Varma: And then what happens

during the sales process as such, right?

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So what exactly are you trying

to sort of, how exactly are you

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showcasing the value, right?

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Is your customer switching from sort

of Excel's and, you know, Google docs

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to sort of your platform or do you

have any competitor out there that you

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want them to switch, pitch from it?

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What, what exactly happens?

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How do you convince them?

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Matt Ford: Yeah.

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Re recently I, I finally hired like

professional sales and, um, you eyeopening

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experience for me because I think, you

know, I, I, I think the biggest thing

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that he's instilled, his name is Dustin.

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Dustin Duvonage, he's instilled, um,

like this idea of price validation,

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um, in, in our sales reps and like

really kind of making a business use

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case around like, Hey, like, you're,

you have a workflow right now that is.

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the core flow of your business and

it takes a certain amount of hours to

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do it the way that you're doing it.

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And, um, to generate a certain

amount of output and what could you,

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how much would it be worth if you

dramatically reduce the number of

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hours and dramatically simultaneously

dramatically increase the throughput.

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Um, and, and then, you know, backing

into price based off of that and.

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Um, you know, at first it was

hard to get Prism sold for 1,

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000 a year or 3, 000 a year.

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And, um, maybe that was the fact

that we just were extremely early.

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Um, but I think, you know, we, we, we

didn't do the best job of validating

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like why a price really makes sense.

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But, you know, to start getting like

30, 40, 000 contracts, one way we

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started talking about it is like,

all right, look, like if you don't

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spend 30, 000 in Prism, like let's

say you go and hire someone for 30K.

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Like what can, what realistically can

one 30 K a year employee do for you?

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Um, what is the value you're

going to get out of prism?

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Um, like, do you care

about your profitability?

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Do you care about getting time back?

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So it is a more sophisticated sales

pitch that we've developed over time

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and it works, it works really well.

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Yeah.

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And I didn't quite believe it at first.

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I was like very much just like build

the best product and they will come.

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And I think that's true

to a certain extent.

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Um, but people also won't pay you

your value unless you ask for it.

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Upendra Varma: All right, man.

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So let's, let's go back

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During this first couple of years, right?

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So just talk about how you got

those first 10 odd customers.

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Matt Ford: Yeah, 2017, 2018, um,

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eye, but, uh, yeah, so, uh, we, we

had a, we had a flagship customer

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we were building for in 2017.

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And it was important for me to

just get a few others in, um,

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like one was absolutely committed.

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And I had probably five that were

like weighing in on specific things.

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And I was meeting with them consistently.

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And that was

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Upendra Varma: did you

knew them basically?

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How did you knew

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Matt Ford: Is that, well, I, uh,

cause I was booking shows in Austin.

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So I had built up a network of

venue owners and just found the

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most kind of tech savvy one.

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Um, you know, for me having five was

great, but having one that was like, I

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am, I'm going to push my team through

jumping on here before it's ready.

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Um, I'm going to push you to get

it ready to have my team jump on.

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But then when it's like good enough, I'm

going to, I'm going to like, You know,

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maybe swallow some grief from my team

of them being slightly more inefficient

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at first trusting that you'll be able

to adapt and make them more efficient.

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Um, that's always been

extremely useful for us.

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Um, and that like, you know,

White House customer that's

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willing to, uh, endure some pain.

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And we've used that in other

customer segments now as well.

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We've had, we, I would say we have

about five or six unique customer

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segments and, and each one I can

point to like an original White House

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customer in those situations that.

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Just wanted it so bad that they

were willing to go through the pain

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management of switching and, and

having something that was nascent.

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Um, and I think the art of that is

just really good communication and, and

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being clear, like, hey, and, and then

just following through, like, talk,

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having real talk with the engineering

team and saying, hey, like, you know,

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we really have to rapidly develop with

these folks, like, we have to find

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a way to get them quick solutions.

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Like, they're, they're taking

a leap of faith with us.

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Um, we have to, we have to just,

we can't leave them hanging

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and say, Oh, you know, you,

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Upendra Varma: yeah, Matt's

one question here, right?

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So when did that transition happen?

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Right.

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And like, for example, when did it

go from you founder led sales to your

359

team, sort of closing that deals.

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So like when you were, when

you were doing that, right.

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So what channels would really be, what

channels have worked for you, right.

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So what was that first marketing channel

that was, that sort of brought you more

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leads and that, that you were able to

close without your own, without you

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not having to use your own network.

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Matt Ford: the first, the

first 20 deals was me.

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I closed personally and it was me

going to conferences and relationships.

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Yeah.

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Upendra Varma: that 20, right?

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From between 20 to 50, what's that?

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Matt Ford: Yeah.

371

Um, you know, then I'd say we started

developing SEO and SEM and just showing

372

up on search engine marketing and that's

never been a silver bullet for us, but

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it's consistently high quality leads.

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Um, and that, and.

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And then I just, and then it was, I mean,

for a long time, we've, we it's our, I

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wouldn't claim that we've done anything.

377

Inventive around getting

ourselves out there.

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It's just hiring good reps that are

showing up at the conferences and building

379

relationships and, and then, you know,

creating word of mouth from the product.

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And then it's just kind of snowball.

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Yeah.

382

It's been a overnight success

that took eight years or not

383

eight, but like six at this point.

384

Yeah.

385

Upendra Varma: So Madeline, talk

about your team today, right?

386

So how many folks do you have on

your team and what do they do?

387

Matt Ford: Uh, 26 primarily, you know, 17

in product and engineering, uh, six in.

388

Um, sales and go to market

and then three in customer

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Upendra Varma: So were you always

building the product in house or did you

390

ever sort of outsource it or all this?

391

And what, what was the reason there?

392

Why, why didn't you

sort of explore sort of,

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Matt Ford: Well, we are nothing but

a pro, like, like you could boil

394

down like, yeah, we have a good

team, but it's the good team is

395

only there because of the products.

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Um, and it's, it's the core of what we do.

397

Like, I think everyone at the company

works on the product, whether you're in

398

customer support and, or you're in sales

and you're getting new people to use it.

399

Um, so, and, and the most direct thing you

can do to work on the product is build it.

400

And, uh, I mean, we take.

401

Every engineering decision, extremely

seriously from architecture to

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code review to QA, um, and, uh,

like you can't, I never felt like

403

I could outsource my secret sauce.

404

Like, it's just, it's not even been

an option for me, like not even close

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quality over quantity, you know,

cause we're, we're a tech company.

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We're not like to outsource my

product, I think would just be

407

like, I like, that would be a

house of cards in my perspective.

408

It's like.

409

I'm like brewing beer, but I,

I don't know how to make beer.

410

You know,

411

Upendra Varma: Yeah.

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That's that, that makes a lot of sense.

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And how much money have you

raised in external funding so far?

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Matt Ford: we just closed

5 million series B.

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Um, and that puts us up to

like 15 million in total.

416

Upendra Varma: All right.

417

So like one last question here, right?

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What's, what's the vision here, right?

419

Where do you see your company going like

five, five, six years down the line?

420

Right.

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What's the big vision here?

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Matt Ford: Um, I think I'm more so

like a two to three year type person

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right now and, and two to three years.

424

The main, the main vision of Prism is

to be, is to create a platform shift in

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the live music industry such that like,

it's not like you're using something

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like Prism to run your business.

427

And I think we're about three

years away from doing that.

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And like it just being so

aggressively good that.

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You know, an overwhelming

percent of the industry is using

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Prism as an industry standard.

431

Um, and it's a fully robust network system

and payments are flowing through Prism.

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Um, so I think that's like mission

one and there's a lot of unknowns.

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It's hard to see around that corner.

434

Like I'm kind of, I'm

really got my head down.

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Like, I know that that could be a

launch pad for many other products and.

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And acquisitions and all that.

437

Um, I don't fully know what's

on the other side of this

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horizon that we're approaching.

439

Um, but that's, that's what I see in

the next three years happening with us.

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Um, I gotta, you know, is that, is

that 50 million recurring revenue?

441

Is that 80 million?

442

Is that, you know, 120,

um, you know, how, how

443

Upendra Varma: you've got to

give me a number here, right?

444

So

445

Matt Ford: I don't, I

don't fully know yet.

446

I don't fully know yet.

447

I mean, uh, the, we, we will find out.

448

I mean, I think it has potential to

be, uh, without evolving the product.

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I think it has potential to be

in the hundreds of millions.

450

Um, but you know, I also like, you know,

we'll see, we'll see how many professional

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venue organizers are out there.

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I've got, I've got numbers on a

spreadsheet, but it's, that's,

453

that's numbers on a spreadsheet.

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Let's, let's see what actually happens.

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Upendra Varma: Yeah.

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All right, Matt.

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Thanks for taking the time to talk to me.

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Hope you scale Prism to

much, much greater heights.

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Matt Ford: Thank you.

460

Thank you.

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God willing.

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Appreciate it.