Monica “M.L” Bullock is a medium, paranormal investigator, and author known for many book series including Seven Sisters, Gulf Coast Paranormal, and Lost Camelot. Here we discuss her early experience with the paranormal, how it led her on a path of spiritual exploration and authorship, why spirits do or don’t move on, ghosts, shadow people, poltergeists, demons, angels, ancient mythology, psychic ability, and everything in between! | https://www.mlbullock.com/ | https://x.com/AuthorMLBullock | https://inthekeep.com/ | https://www.patreon.com/InTheKeepPodcast |

so would you like to be referred to as Monica ml miss bulck m

bulck just Monica's fine that's fine all right so I guess first and foremost you

could just tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do all right my name is Monica and I write under the

name of ml Bullock I lived in South I live in South lived oh my God I live in

south Mississippi and I write ghost fiction are you uh in locale area I am

actually I'm in George County I'm in the Rocky Creek area more specifically but yeah best Catfish House on planet Earth

right that's what everybody says I'm just not a big catfish fan but um

everybody says that it's like right next to my house what about uh The Landmark Cafe you ever been there of course yeah

downtown L's really really come up it's a it's it's such a like preserved little

like Americana town so like if you picture in your mind like what did America look like when Route 66 was

still a major highway like that that's the best way I know how to describe it to people it's a very beautiful little

area especially in start contrast to right across the border in Alabama where it's not as uh welldeveloped I used to

live in theore so I know all about it so uh so for some context for people

listening uh we're going to be talking a lot about the the southeast and the Gulf Coast Area that's a big part of your

work has been the Gul Coast paranormal series I've actually about halfway maybe just over halfway through the gy lady of

Wilmer wow okay the reason why I picked it is because obviously I grew up in

that area so between um that story specifically centers around people want to pull up Google Maps uh Mobile Alabama

the county and then you go north of there there's Wilmer Alabama and then I grew up between there and a place called

citronel Alabama and I know where yeah I know exactly where you're talking about so when you're talking in that in that

story specifically about Highway 98 or bloody 98 or as it's called nowadays Moffet road which leads straight into

Mississippi uh that and then the highway or lot road that goes into citronell

North and then Wilmer Georgetown Road which is pretty much that's the entirety of the what we call the wellmer area

uhhuh when you're talking about those specifically in that story I'm I know exact exactly what you're talking about

like so but for our listeners hopefully they can pull up Google Maps while they're listening and try to put a

cognitive map together' be pretty fun yeah cool so um ghost stories I I I

recommend anybody who's listening to go to your website which I'll link in the show notes and they can listen to your talks about like writing I know you did

one really great podcast that was specifically about your authorship career um but I kind of want to start

with when did you first become interested in the Paranormal uh

1976 and I was living in Perry County Ohio is when

I started my journey so like a lot of people it

started from an experience and when you're 10 or close to that and it's the

70s and the only thing you have to learn about ghost is Scooby-Doo mhm um you're

being terrorized at night your bed shaking and you're so much so that you're being getting in trouble from

your parents because you're running across the floor but you're not running across the floor and um so I it started

in that year it's when it started so had your family moved into a a new old house

at the time or how did this come about if you don't mind I don't mind I just don't want to um I don't want to like

jeopardize all the time here but just to try to keep it short my dad was a Navy

he was in the Navy he served in the he was a seal for a long time he did demolition diving and we always lived

around beaches in the ocean and um my dad got in trouble and got an argument

with the senior person and he was taken off the beaches and sent to Ohio to recruit for two years to teach him a

lesson um but anyway that was in 70s things are very different then um but anyhow um so my parents

bought a colonial twostory very small in Mount Perry Ohio and we were excited

because it was the first two-story house we'd ever lived in we always lived on Bungalows at the beach or little Shacks

or on Navy housing so this was a big deal for us and I think the first month

everything was great but then things started slowly to happen um it started

with the footsteps walking up the stairs and then walking across the floor and

then um things started getting misplaced like my parents would find the keys in

the freezer or find Mama's hairbrush and the the bread um basket or just things

like that and naturally I'm the 10 year-old oldest so I'm the one that gets you know you did this and it wasn't me

but eventually everybody realized what happened because um everyone had an experience with the house and from there

uh it really wrecked my mother's mental state and it it it wrecked our relationship but um yeah just slowly

progressed over the years and kind of snowballed into other things for me uh I

pursued that whole spiritual side because I had that early experience and when you don't have guard rails and you

don't know how to learn about the stuff he can get in a lot of trouble so I did

that something that uh actually had a really indepth conversation with my father about well maybe a couple of

years ago but I think that our generation uh has so much access to information because of the internet Etc

and we're so used to it and we take it for granted that it's really hard for a lot of people my age and younger to put

1900s folks thinking about things in terms of like you literally don't know anything

any information at all that your parents a friend your teacher or the preacher

didn't tell you no and the only way out of that is to go to the library and just

consume information and it's not you can't Google it you have to know the Dewey Decimal System and pray that they

have something that's even akin to what you're looking for and on top of that just to add another layer to it there's

no review system there's no like oh this got five stars on good reads it's just like oh this is the only book in the

library about ghosts or about anything other than just what's on the news

exactly exactly and um luckily for me my mother was a big fan of books so once I

cleaned out the school library reading everything I could about it um she would take us to the regular library and it's

so weird because when we were going through it the parents our parent my parents didn't talk about it to us and

we didn't really talk about it to them but all of us were experiencing it it was just weird it was just a different

time you know there's a lot of things you didn't talk about in the 70s um but yeah the it just slowly

progressed we had an incident that happen before that my my dad had rented

a house before they bought the uh house in Ohio we found Ohio very spooky we

were in Lancaster and they rented a house it was just a little cottage we were going to be there for a few months

till this other house came through and um my mother had a profound experience

with there we found out the lady that lived there before us had got shot and was murdered a home Breakin and um this

woman really loved Elvis Presley records and when we got there the only thing left in the house was this awful red

carpet and a record player and a stack of little Elvis records in the

closet and over the over the unfolding months as we were waiting for the house

to get ready that we were going to move into my mom was playing these records constantly constantly constantly weeping

and crying um I got scratched and stuff but I never thought about it as being paranormal

until years later and uh but that my mother found out that the woman had

gotten killed and she claims that she saw the woman um and then so you know we

stayed at a hotel until we could get into the house house um but yeah it just

I don't really know if it happened from that house and just followed us to the other but the big stuff happened in the

Colonial House in Mount Perry That's before the big stuff happened so I'm I'm reading a book

called real ghosts by author named Brad steager who at least in my understanding

is quite the authority on a lot of the stuff he's passed away now but a a lot

of the stories that have to do with malicious Spirits uh tend to focus on things that do follow people from house

to house either based on an object or an attachment to a person so one of the

things that I'm really genuinely curious about is your opinion on the Poltergeist debate uh do you feel that first of all

this this noisy spirit that was in your house like would it have indicated to you things that people would commonly

associate with Poltergeist or was it something else perhaps um that's a great question you

I've never even thought about that um to to

to what I saw was an a poltergeist I mean I don't know what Poltergeist would look like I mean I've seen plenty of I

now have seen plenty of mediums work and I am a medium and I think that's why my

mother was gifted but she was a you know raised in a very strict Pentecostal

Oneness religion and of course she was put on the altar to pray the devil out of her because she would know things

ahead of that time or she would get warnings or and I think that that just drew my that it was attracted to my

mother and then later to me um but anyway back to your original

question I think there were Poltergeist elements to the story Poltergeist

elements to this this experience but to say that it was strictly that no because

um I saw something and my mother saw something and my sister saw something

and we all saw something different so I'm not really sure how to even say it

you know I'm not even sure to what to call it did you find it to be malicious or just

annoying at first it it slowly built it built it was like um at first it was

just well that's curious I know I didn't leave that there or why am I getting blamed for this or you know blah blah

blah but it slowly became curious draw your curiosity and then it became more of for

me personally Obsession because I'm getting spanked for walking across the floor and I'm not you know know so um

but my sister and I shared a room and our twin beds were on either side of the room and whenever she would say you know

I see it floating over you or I would feel it or it's jerking my bed or shaking my bed to me if it's shaking my

bed and it's grabbing my feet was trying to drag me out of the bed I don't think of that as being friendly I think at the

beginning It was friendly or at least calm enough it didn't just come out with

guns blazing it was just like draw you in you know draw you in draw you in and

then it just kind of built up and just blew up and it was just horrible it's very difficult to to tell

the differ I mean obviously from our side of the coin especially the people who are not like gifted as mediums or

whatever you know if they don't see anything it's really difficult to tell but I imagine in my mind that a

malicious spirit will appear as many different things because it's just trying to fool you it's trying to lie to you and try to like make you

buy into whatever it is that it's doing and whatever it has to do to either control or scare you it would do so for

instance people I I don't recommend this disclosure anybody out there listening

to this for the love of God please never touch a Ouija board in your life but if you do they you know obviously it's

going to lie to you about what it is so if you're like vulnerable and you're looking for your your dead relative or a

friend or something like that that you've lost of course it's going to tell you whatever it needs to tell you to get into your life and I found that I find

that terrifying but in terms of something that's haunting a home do you find that because you said that it

appeared to you and your mother and your sister in different ways what did it appear as or was it uh like sort of

localized to that individual or just random wow great questions um for me it

turned out to be like a goblin it's it sounds crazy but that's what I saw what

I learned was and I had looked and ran and just studied everything I could as 10-year-old girl and uh I heard I read

in a book and I couldn't even tell you what the name of it was but that if you could if when you hear the footstep

ghost because I mean back then there's I didn't know what a poltergeist was we didn't there was nothing like that I'm

sure the Warrens were around but I didn't know about them you know they weren't coming to Ohio but anyway

um I don't know where I was going with that my I saw it as a goblin it was purple

and black it was on the steps and the book told me that if I heard the

footsteps if I could catch sight of it then I would see it and it would be gone

and for me that's what happened but the the the activity still happened for my sister she saw a woman that was in

Victorian dress that floated around the house and like to choke all of us and then my mother never would say what she

saw so I don't know what she saw but I know she saw something it's one of the hard things about this entire sit like

the the entirety this is a research field is it's so hard to even when you're going on eyewitness testimony

it's hard to get a lot of people to even speak and a lot of people who do have experiences will not speak up because

they're afraid of what other people will think of them especially where we're from where it's predominantly very old school in our in our religious

standpoints opinions about that kind of stuff absolutely and very opinionated about it so much so that it cost my

husband his church uh it cost me you know cost us a lot of Heartache but um stick to my guns

and I love helping people I don't charge them for that I go to their house I pray

with them I walk around the house I work with the spirits if I can if it's a human Spirit if it's something else you

know my husband is a minister I'm an ordained minister I mean you can all

right we can command it to leave in jesus' name but you have to wear it down and there's certain things you have to

do to protect yourself you know to determine whether or not it's a ghost or it's a demon and there's a lot more in

the realm of the the astral if you want to call it that uh that we access

through dreams and we access through Witchcraft and we access through prayer and we access through all these

different doors and the thing is you need to go through a valid door where

you're doing research or you're doing investigating whatever you're doing when

you approach the Paranormal field it's important to have your game face on and be ready because you just really don't

know what's on the other side of the door you really don't know I I want to Circle back to the specifically the

topic of like differentiating ghosts and demons or spirits and demons okay and also

astral project we'll get into all that but for now I want to focus still on the the question of poltergeist

uh because I don't know why I've been obsessed with this recently but it seems like there's a big debate within the

community about how to define what a poltergeist is in German it literally means a noisy ghost like just a ghost

that's loud and annoying and bothers people right um but the like I don't

know if you what the the scientific definition or whatever is still heavily debated as to whether or not it is a

spirit or if it is a gift child who

is subconsciously acting out some frustration they have you're you can put your mind ease the bottom line for a

Poulter p a poultrygeist poltergeist is it has to have a human

agent so Poltergeist is it has to be activated with a human agent whether

it's known or unknown that's somebody that's known they're gifted or not known they're gifted the Poltergeist has

activated with the human agent so whereas if you are at a haunted location

a haunting a residual haunting or something that happened at that location that's repetitive haunting you could go

whatever time but you don't need a human agent there somebody interacting with

that haunting but with the Poltergeist you do have to have a human agent they are the ones that give the in the entity

power knowing or unknowing they are the ones that can take the power away knowing or

unknowing so that's the difference about the polter guys that's they work with the human agent there's also a lot of

association between uh epilepsy and Poltergeist huntings and I don't know if

that's just a correlation or if there's anything practical to it but I found that very fascinating as well in my

research that is very interesting especially in uh terms of the pineal gr

gland and the third eye and um you know that's that would go L line in line with

that because I feel like if I'm not mistaken EP epilepsy is about shorts in

the brain like electrical shorts isn't it I'm I'm really not qualified to speak

on it but my yeah my understanding is that it has a lot to do with your uh neur neurot transmitters yeah that's

what that would right in line with yeah absolutely dopamine or serotonin orur

Perrine or something like that brain juices yeah brain ju that's good we we have to get a t-shirt that says that

sell it on your website um yeah I just found it so interesting how like there's there's so

such disagreement even amongst the experts about I mean OB that's in any field you're gonna have you know physicists arguing between string theory

and whatever else is going on Newtonian physics so it it makes sense that in this field it's the same you know people

are going to have disagreements um but I I do find idea of like Poltergeist being attached to a person interesting so my

opinion at least based on like what I've learned recently was not necessarily that it's it doesn't have to be a spirit

present at all it could just be that someone is like has some sort of telek

kinetic ability and isn't aware that they're acting it out you know and it could be temporary but it seems like it

gets particularly nasty when a person who's going through that and isn't aware of it meets a spirit so if there is

something in the house and you're doing that and then the spirit gets pissed off at

you and if you're a certain age so all of those things are that's why it's

important if you're going at this as a researcher it's important to take every

case as its own case you can't just say okay this is Poltergeist this is that

sometimes it can be two or three things sometimes it can be an actual you and

throw a Holy Angel in there who's trying to stop people and this telling you to get out and everyone's thinking it's the

devil you know I mean sometimes that happens so it's just you got to every

it's great that you're learning the basics but just be prepared that even if

you learn the basics there's no guarantee that you're going to learn everything and you're not always going to be you got to go in every paranormal

situation if you're doing it in lifetime and you're helping people or if you're doing research or whatever you got to go

in every situation with being prepared and um that comes through a lot of

different things but yeah you got to know where the entrances and the exits are you got to be prep prepared

spiritually you got to prepared physically and so there's a lot that has to go into it but yeah I I love that

you're finding that and you're discovering that and I did not know that about the correlation between or the

possible correlation between epilepsy and Poltergeist activity that's very interesting yeah I don't want to spread

misinformation or if if you're out there and you have epilepsy like please for the love of God talk to a doctor first

before you go to your priest or whatever it is but yeah I mean it's I wouldn't even worry about it there's no need to

go anywhere really it's just I mean if it's bothering you but learning how to I

think people learning how to ground themselves to stop that is really

important you know yeah it one of our uh one of our co-workers at at our company

in the keep is he he has epilepsy and I'm always like trolling him essentially saying like oh dude it's the Poulter guy

that lives in your house and telling you if you would just get rid of that thing but it's just a running joke but I do

find it very fascinating and the categor categorizations of different uh things

that people interact with is also very interesting uh just to you know as it correlates to video games there's a game

it's very popular right now Alex what's it called p uh it's like a really long

word ouch uh goodness I I'll edit it in if I

can't remember it in the course of this conversation but essentially you and a group of people are you know paranormal

investigators you go to different houses and you have EVPs and and different tools and everything and your job is to

figure out what kind of thing is haunting the house that's the name of the game and it's really interesting because people have put a lot of thought

into this um so like one of the things that just fascinated me the most

recently was what like in your opinion what is a shadowed person and is it you

know is it a lot of different things thank you for listening to in the keep

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the [Music] show uh a shadow person is a lot of

different things it's actually like three different things and I don't know how deep you want to go

with this or how long we have to talk but I'll talk to you all night Shadow People

Are People people say shadow people because they're perceiving uh

manifestation of an entity as a shadow okay that's one two is Cryptids and

three is uh really really bad big bad VY

daddies are shadows and uh people that say oh hat man no dude that's horns those those are

horns and they'll often show up as hats because they're trying to hide that from you but so Shadow horn shadow people

with horns or showing up with a coat and hat um is a like an arc demon um if it's

just a shadow entity in the woods or if you're doing crypted work sometimes

they'll step in and out of the realm if the being is

multi-dimensional and then you have the hauntings where people are in a home and they're seeing a manifestation of either

a ghost or whatever and they're perceiving it as a shadow so there's three different ways that you can

perceive a shadow being and you'd need more information to determine what type of shadow person that is just talking

about like bestiaries you'll often see these broken down into you know Shades

there's so many different words and in different cultures they call things different different ways I I've certainly heard many stories about the

hatman I was a big Art Bell fan if you remember Coast to Coast AM so I got a lot of a lot of that in my ears um and I

agree with you I don't I don't think it's it's I don't think it's a good omen when you see something like that no run

the other way as far and fast as you can and if they're coming in on you at during your sleep you really got to put

some bound up and you know push them back because once they start interfering

with your sleep insomnia is horrible I've had it and it's bad the insomnia from that is bad so uh to so I guess

we'll start with the the crypted point of view because I find that really fascinating too uh so transdimensional

beings or one one theory that I've heard about this particular manifestation is that I mean basically human beings we

were talking about electrodes in your brain this is something I learned on Wikipedia so it's probably not true but

essentially we function at about 60 Hertz which is probably what your computer monitor functions at um and

we're receiving things at about 60 frames per second electronically in our in our minds of course that fluctuates

up and down just like everything else to do with our bodies but that's about where we sit if something exists on a

different frequency than we do and occasionally we cross paths with that maybe we're seeing something that does

exist all the time doesn't interact with us but you're just seeing it that's

possible um or at least it's been put forth that that's a possibility yeah but but what do you

think uh from a crypted standpoint what what is that that people are seeing as a shade or a or as a shadow in the woods I

think you nailed it I think it's a frame per second like just you know quick fast

movement and it's the stepping in from the dimension like you mentioned you know um and I've heard this other other

way of explaining String Theory you mentioned that before you know you're just a two-dimensional thre diens

it's very different the way that we perceive things and even understanding what the fourth dimension would be even

understanding what A fifth dimension would be those are so hard for us to put our minds around but that in fact it is

real I mean and is in fact the possibility of it is real if you don't even want to go that far I go to the

this is an example I give to people when they're like well if it's not if it's invisible and I can't see it I just

don't believe it well if you've ever stepped in a room and you know people were arguing in

it even though you didn't hear them you felt it how many times have we stepped

into an arena or into a group or whatever and we're like were y'all just talking about me because we picked up on

that because there something this there's a lot of information G being given to us like you said there's a lot

of information that we're perceiving with our 60 hertz or megahertz or whatever um but we're perceiving and

processing constantly constantly and not just with our eyes not just our ears but

with our skin with our breathing with all sorts of parts of us awareness in us

and so you know I for me the Cryptids is it's a frame by frame thing we're seeing

they're stepping in and out they're hiding you know they're they they can do that they can do that and if you want to

talk about Origins it we get really deep but um I do believe in a pre-adamic world and I do believe that a lot of

things that we do see are Shades and shadows of what that was and um to know

that and understand that is virtually impossible in this but doesn't stop us from looking

does it I I'm 100% on the same page as you in terms of there there's clearly more to

reality than what we can conceive of we know that inherently we know that we don't perceive time and you know as a

dimension we we we move through it linear linearly or at least we experience linear linearity in time as

humans right um but of course like you said you can walk into a place and if something happened there before even if

it's years before if you walk into a house where a murder or something really dark happened or if you walk out onto a

they don't realize that in fact we could have a whole different conversation about I I think we're like a species

with amnesia like we like human beings in general have latent senses that we've

let go or atrophied over time like a muscle you don't use um yeah and a lot

of people have different gifts some people are more attuned than others but that's also true of sight sound of the T

the sensus that we do have right so one thing that's uh really I'm not going to

say it's proof positive but it's a good example of you don't have a sense for this but it is real radiation like you

could walk into cherin Noble right now walk straight into it you won't feel a thing you will come out with radiation

poisoning and you you won't know it until it happens because you don't have a sense for it that doesn't mean it's

not real I mean the Arc of the Covenant gave people tumors and that's in the Bible if you're a Christian you kind of

can't circle around that right whether or not that means it's radioactive I don't know but it does mean that there

are things that happen that we don't perceive right so it's to me when I was younger I was much more rigid I think I

was very scientific I still am to a large degree and me I was professionally a meteorologist when I was in the Air

Force so I'm used to thinking about things in terms of like strict data what you can and can't prove but that doesn't

mean that just because I can't prove it doesn't mean it's not real 500 600 years ago people didn't believe that America

was real and they didn't know the Earth was round and we're still in denial about that are you following um Travis

Taylor's work what SK Walker Ranch Travis Taylor sounds very familiar

I think it's Travis Taylor what's Travis's last name he's a doctor he's

um he's a he's got like three degrees astrophysicist um Travis Shane Taylor

American scientist and engineer yeah I think I saw him on a documentary by Dr

Dr Steven Greer may have had him I I have a very I have a I have a friend

that knows him and um this man has so many degrees and I

I I don't know what I should say or what shouldn't say but he's being challenged let's just put it that way a man of

science that knows so much and has so many degrees and is a part of NASA part

of space technology I think he's probably even SpaceX now but

um he is being forced to to

tout the position that there is dimensional travel happening and not from the stars from here like

dimensional I if you really subscribe to the idea that we live in a projection

like um for I'll I'll tie this into video games for my audience too let's say that we live in a we call it

simulated reality and I think that the The Matrix metaphor does work for a metaphor but is not necessarily exactly

true but if we exist in a projection of

I don't know the eight-sided Crystal or what whichever version of it you want to call it you could you could say that we live in higher and lower dimensions in

terms of like the biblical sense or like a dantean way of viewing it but it's strange how all of these things seem to

correlate regardless of what we call it right um but it would seem that we are

coming if that's true then everything is local to one point and then the reality

that we experience in three dimensions or in four dimensions if you want to throw time into the mix

uh it it even if we perceive it as distance or height or a difference in

time it's still localized to one point from which it is being projected so in a video game if you were to break out

Super Mario World you could conceivably run into a glitch where an enemy that

doesn't belong in that level is there or it you know stalls the game or you can

jump up into the clouds and you can you know run across and then all of a sudden you've skipped the entire world right

and conceivably you could do that in real life as well so just as we were saying if there's a a glitch in The

Matrix and you see a shadow person who's existing on a different frequency than you do uh there's no reason why you

can't if that exists in a simulated world and we live in a simulated world then why wouldn't that be possible in

our world um I remember talking about I think I had this this thought occurred to me when I was maybe like nine or 10

years old because I was playing Mario and I was explaining to my grandma like I think that's what ghosts are maybe not

all of them but at least some of it yeah um so yeah from a scientific standpoint

if this gentleman's you know talking about transdimensional beings traveling from place to place uh have you ever you

ever studied like ancient Egypt or Samaria at all hold that

thought do I know EG well actually you know what all Egypt stuff is in there I

have written so many books on Egypt and um I have a series that's a fictional

series about oknot and and um but yeah I from a very early age loved Egypt

there's so much Egypt in my soul and um yeah absolutely I think

it's those people really were in tune to the world around them and I mean really

around them and um I find it fascinating some of the stuff the two Enochs and the

different things I mean there's just so many rabbit holes we could jump down here don't even get me don't even get me

tiptoeing on the edge of Egypt we can do a Bunches of different episodes if you want like we could talk about Jesus uh

you know fleeing and learning the the mysteries of the Egyptian mystery school we could get on all that stuff we we'll

we'll keep it you know focused on what we talked about we would talk about today and then we could do another one later if we want

but specifically for me I got really fascinated with th the atlantan priest king or Hermes the Tris magistr or

whatever you want to call him but the idea that he could be in several different places around the world or

even not on this world at once uh seems so pseudoscientific to our modern way of

thinking about things but um I loved the the series in the in the film Stargate uh which was tying a lot of

Zachariah sitchin's work into people Egypt but let's just say for you

know that the the pyramids are you know some sort of space dock or Beacon or

whatever and that gets into Enoch that gets into Ezekiel uh oh Ezekiel is so fascinating

too just the it is very fascinating it's interesting because we just passed the Lion's gate um and the Lion's gate is

where the Orion the belt of Orion is positioned over the pyramids and you

know that they're like aligned perfect perfectly um the third one's just a little off center just like the Bel of

Osiris but uh I even included that in one of my books mention of that and how

the ancient Egyptians used to call him the dancing man but um anyway very

interesting very interesting so w with that said uh

you're you're I don't want to say it's your assertion but what we were just talking about in terms of like being um

able to travel if you were actually existing in one local place like so if if those things

are true then if someone could access the source so if you could go back to

the source of the projection and then put yourself out into another per area that is part of the projection you're

never really leaving the S the place you're just uh folding space time as as a lot of

physicists would try to put it you are but you're not right um

so so like for instance there there's the theory that there are pyramids on

Phobos and on Mars itself I've heard that yeah and there's also the the

pyramids in uh Antarctica that are discussed a lot I don't know if any of that's necessarily true you know people

can mess with images and say a lot of misinformation but I also think that um

you study cabala I'm sure at some point here and there

the tree of life right no matter what culture it is has the you know two pillars on either side and the one in the C so you have intuition and you have

uh knowledge or logic th the word thought in English comes from th um

Hermes being the god of in in Greek mythology of logic reason thought

knowledge Mercury being the Roman manifestation of that and then on the other side of that you have Venus who is

emotion and love J also you know in astrology these are all represented as well right uh and and the the key to

life you know according to Jewish cabala is the center you know to be balanced between the

two uh so if you're trying to li like I don't know live live a life of balance

and and try to ascend you know you can't be totally emotional and you can't be totally logical you have to be somewhere

in between I think that at least in my experience that if we

are um we are far too logical as a society like

we lean too much on what we can and can't prove and not enough on our intuition so if you have the int if if

collectively as a human race we have the intuition that there's something about Phobos that's important to us it's worth

investigating uh and I think that's also true of our our paranormal topics here so like if if so many people intuitively

believe in spirits and ghosts regardless of whether or not it's provable in a what we now call scientific way doesn't

mean it's not true and I do think that there's Merit to it and the balance between that like the pendulum is sort

of swinging back societally right now yeah I think you're right I think you're

right and we do we can look back on history and we can see where we kind of

went off the track and we did go towards all for Science and we did abandon

intuition and inspiration and Imagination because all those three things are the three eyes that work

together you know people are like when you're a child they they they want you to be an imaginative child but they

don't want you to be an imaginative adult but you need to be imaginative

because you have to be able to be a Visionary to be able to do these kinds of things and to study these kinds of

things and so I think it's really important to to do that you know I like

you said if it's interest you you should you should research it you should check it out there might be something there

that you can pick up that you can learn about my son and I were talking about the concept of time the other day he's

24 and uh very deep very spiritual man but he was talking about um we were

talking about what if each one of us is our own main character and all of our

family is just NPCs and they're just interacting with us but we're really here by ourselves but we're all here by

ourselves and we're all in you know it just like it's a way of there's just ways of thinking that are that some

people are not ever going to engage in it it doesn't matter how much you want Society to be more spiritual you have to

abandon your passion for trying to convince people and just convince

yourself and not worry about other people because it's so frustrating when you've experienced all these things and

you witnessed all these things and the very same people that get in trouble are the ones that are going to pick up the

phone and call you at the same time later on they're going to say they never did that you know they're never did that

they never called you and asked you to pray for them they never asked you to come and Sage their house they never ask you to anoint their doors and windows

but in the end they will that's how it works so people can choose to not have a

spiritual life but spiritual life is going to present itself to you in some sort of way you're either going to

smother it with booze and alcohol and pretend it doesn't uh exist when it wants to appear

in your life or you're going to embrace it explore it and determine how it fits into your life so spirituality is a part

of life and I I think you're right we are coming into a time where people are starting to think more they're having

more Leisure Time uh to think more about themselves about their place in the

world place in the universe and um I think we're we're stepping back into

that and the reality of so much that's happening that is Paranormal um yeah it's really I didn't

plan to go on that tangent but since you brought it up I think um it's really normal for people who

have na like a natural affinity for uh like a greater sense a six sense

whatever you want to call it to go down the PA because we are taught in society

so much that you have to as an adult repress that it's not okay to think that way it's not okay to have these ideas

that you can't prove and you're you're insan pain if you do uh that people drown it out with uh

with Hedonism drugs alcohol sex whatever it is um I myself I believe and I've

been told that I'm a natural empath what I maybe that's why I'm so

good at conversations or like that's why I went down this path in my life but I spent a very long time drowning it out

with drugs and alcohol like that was the only way that I knew how to shut it off because it was so a I didn't I n taught

how to deal with it so it was overwhelming and B because I thought I was insane for thinking it wow and you

know what that's so sad because every single one of us has a sixense every single one of us I mean h

how many of us have if you've ever had a dream about flying if you've ever woke

up falling if you've ever I mean these are all things that we all share all

that are just outside the realm of understanding you know and we we all do that so you have to you have to Ty you

have to just like not worry about convincing the world and you have to go on your own Trek and your own and it

sounds like you're already doing that you're well into your journey I feel like you got your staff you got your

stick and you're well into your journey but don't get distracted by trying to convince the people around you I lost so

much doing that I lost my church I lost family members I lost uh friendships and

I'm as a another paranormal person looking out for you a little older than you I'm just telling you don't feel like

that's your mission to try to convince everybody around you you be the pilgrim you be the Trailblazer you be the

Pioneer and you don't worry about what other people have to say or think or do

they want to pray for you great they want to do whatever they do great you know that's great but just don't get

hemmed up in that because that will steal a lot of your Zeal a lot of your energy it'll take a lot of your joy away

from you when you're trying to learn these things and trying to figure out who you are and your place in the grand

scheme of the universe you know you have to just abandon that I feel like that's like part of who you are you like want

to teach you want to your educator you want to stru because that's who you are you like that but this may be not this

may not be a field where you can really Embrace

that as much as you want maybe you can maybe you're the one to do it I know I

wasn't and it cost me a heart attack I lost my best friends I lost a lot of

stuff all because I'm a Christian and I believe in ghosts and they

don't so one of the things about you that is fascinating is that instead of being a non-fiction ghost you know like

like I was talking about Brad Seager earlier like he basically like died with a lot of people just calling him an idiot because I know who Brad stiger is

stiger my bad I'm not that's no you can do it either way but I'm from being up in Ohio stiger I picked it up there so

yeah but I mean a lot of these people who do non-fiction end up just being dismissed as pseudo scientists right but

in your case you write fiction and so uh to tie that back into Christ even never

once told anybody anything definitively he just told Parables and stories and that was his way of getting it across he

did tell you he said work out your own salvation with fear and trembling that's what he said he said to adopt his blood

sacrifice because uh Humanity this is really weird but humanity is

contaminated our DN are contaminated we are contaminated we had to have the blood of Jesus to make us completely

human because we weren't not we were not that that and um G that look God tried

to do that before by taking the Nephilim out but they still managed to come back in and so now here we are again you know

it's happening again and those of us that are awake we have to be awake we have to understand these things we have

to proceive that it's a blood War it's a blood fight it's what it's all about I find it so interesting how you know

there's there's this entire section I believe I think it occurs in multiple different gospels but specifically in

the Book of Matthew where they're coming to the the apostles and the they're coming to Jesus and they're saying like

why why don't you just outright say what you're trying to say why do you always speak in parallel and he says basically

like because they won't understand if I do like if I if I were to just come out and say how I feel and I so to rewind

back to the empathy or empathic thoughts thing I remember telling one of my friends because we were sitting in a

room and there were other people around but they weren't in the room with us and I was saying like if we just walked out there and started telling everybody like

hey I can feel your feelings even though you're not telling me what they are they would they would call you crazy but if

you can explain it to someone in a way that they understand the same way that you teach a child you know you don't tell a kid all the like harsh reality of

the world you tell them a story that they can understand and conceive of their mind and uh the idea that people

are blind and and I think that in his particular case there are different interpretations of course but Third Eye

Blind as in people who aren't aware of their spirituality as a lot of what he was

trying to get at um and that that that occurs in so many different ways but to

back up to your point about uh the Nephilim I wanted to touch on so if and

this is all a matter of your your opinion or your expertise right and let's just go ahead and put this out

there um I was saved uh I'm just so people will know a little bit about you

know I'm not just fing out my armpit um I am 57 years old and

congratulations 57 years young yeah I feel it I feel it I look in the mirror I'm like who is that old lady uh but

anyway I you

know I don't know how to say this I don't know maybe I just should

and say anything well let me ask the question and then if you if it comes to

that's cool if not we can cut edit it whatever you want to do um

so earlier and you said something akin to like everyone has a six sense

yeah I'm not convinced everyone is a person I I agree with you so in terms of

like NE like just specifically Nephilim like people who are you know even we're talking about uh you know the the the

shadow person which we probably need to get back to at some point but now I'm bringing it up um so like if you're a so

like a true sociopath as in you do not feel human empathy or or you literally

hate humanity and I think that there's not not it's a spectrum so there's people

who are more or less you know I think to a degree I could be wrong but that seems

to tie into the at least the metaphor even if someone doesn't want to literally believe it that's fine but

like the idea of a Nephilim of there being these these things that are you know the the word often actually

hilariously gets translated into Giants so that there's that there were once Nephilim on the world and that gets

translated from Hebrew into um right English as there were giants I know what

it was go ahead so but giant literally means of

the Earth yeah and Nephilim is by definition not earth go ahead I'm listening no no no

that was it that was my whole point okay um writing something down because I don't want to forget to tell you

this okay so anyway back to my qualifications because I had went on a

tangent in my brain I was going to tell you something and I need to tell you privately yeah but anyway um something

I'm picking up from you but good thing um but anyway um so yeah I got saved in

um in the 80s I was uh

I have a book out there called Deliver Me From Evil that's my really own one of my only fiction non-fiction books is my

story delivered me from Evil all my fiction stories are the ghosts that I've met put them in fictional stories and

give them a chance to tell their story that's it and that's why people say to me your stories are so real that's

because I really met a ghost in Wilmer and that was the ghost that I wrote about now are the details exactly the

same probably not but I got what I could from her and I understood what she went

through and I put it in the story and she's not forgotten so that's what you got to learn how to do but you got to do

it for yourself and for your own [Music]

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[Music] Steam that's why I was saying what's so

fascinating about the fact that you write primarily fiction is that you found a way to talk about the subjects

that you want to talk about and to tell the stories without being a you know I don't like it when someone is a a

standing on a Podium right nothing against preachers I mean like I'm talking about something

different but like being preachy as in dictating mean because as you said earlier you can't you can't convince

somebody who isn't ready or doesn't want to be convinced that's exactly right exactly right yeah but you can slow like

if you present it to them as something they don't have to take too seriously they can arrive at their own conclusions

exactly let them do the their own you know what and you don't know we don't I

don't know everything sometimes the other person has

Insight I think that it's a it's important for my medium for podcasting for this sort of thing it's very

important to me that I never come across as the authority person I am

exploring as many different ideas as possible so today I might be talking to you tomorrow I might be talking to a

priest you know and I'm just trying to get all the different pieces from every perspective that I can and then arrive

at a for me my own conclusions but also for the audience to make sense of it however they want to okay so I think

that it's important like some the best podcasts or the best radio show hosts or or or authors that collect data in any

way are the the ones to me that present it in a way that people can decide for themselves because otherwise it's sort

of insulting to to the audience to tell them what to believe it's like no just

present them with the facts so if you're watching the television news and they're telling you I don't know about politics or something like that and there's like

there's only one way that this is the way and then the other side is like completely opposite but they also you

know are saying this is the only way and that you have to take it this way I want just wanted to give the people listening

why I feel like can say talk about this because I went from that little girl in Ohio having that experience to having a

mother that had a mental breakdown uh that just was mentally crushed uh a lot

of things happen all together I'm not going to get in there and talk about her shame she's not here anymore it's not I

there's nothing to be ashamed of but she felt it anyway um so but yeah uh after

that I was a teenager I was very abused I got involved in witchcraft I did all

that stuff as a young person I did all the bad things uh I went to Salem I

become a dancer I worked in the adult entertainment industry for 10 years I

was the best at what I did um I was strung out on drugs and I got put in

jail with 27 felonies and that was my first time getting in trouble boy did I do a good

job the very first time and so I was in jail for a whole month and I was coming

down off of drugs in jail by myself in the late 80s or early 90s my dad would

not bail me out he's like nope you're going to sit there and I'm glad he did because a church came through there and

um I had been there for four weeks the fourth week I was going before the judge the church had been there every week but

I wouldn't go because I just wasn't a religious person come on you know I had a spiritual side to me I didn't think

the church had so I just didn't go but right you know anyway so I did go that

last day last Sunday before the Monday that I was supposed to go see the judge because I thought well if I could get

God to put a little word in for me you know so I went in there and come to find out I actually had an encounter I had

like uh I got baptized with fire like hit the top of my head went out my feet

and every thing that was attached to me just got burned off and uh it was

amazing then I got out of jail and my dad wouldn't let me come back home home and I didn't really want to go back home

real and I've been sober since then I've been straight since then congratulations

I've been thank you um I love God serve him with all my heart but it's just not in the way that I would have imagined

but I say all that to tell people that I went to Bible College I went to Bible school I did all the things I was a

children's Pastor for a decade I was on the praise team for 20 years I did all

those things I was involved in my church uh but when it came down to getting help with the Paranormal they just were not

equipped to do it and they were not open to talking about it and when I talked about it I was deemed uh possessed or

whatever you know everybody St away from her you know um so I just kind of pushed

me out and they couldn't tell me you can't tell me any different I know what I

experienced I know what children in my children's church experienced I prayed

with them about the thing under their bed and about the thing in their closet and I tried to talk with their parents

you know and say Hey you really need to tackle this this is problem oh it's just you know whatever no it's not your kid

is really telling you they have a problem but you know my my passion is for people that can't take care of

themselves kids women that have no skills no life skill s m uh you know

people that were trafficked like I was you know not all of that was willing a

lot of that was I was captured and was not willing but I was captured so you know what are you gonna do but um but

anyway hedonistic behavior is not like there's the balance between free will or whatever but I feel like a lot of it is

people just feel trapped in the situations they're in like it it's hard to blame someone when it's like they don't don't know any better or can't

think of a way to get get out of the situation they're in or can't if they're as you said like if you're being trafficked or captured or whatever but

it's it's more than just the physical reality of what you're dealing with it's also like the spiritual battle within

yourself like what do I do I something we were talking about earlier is kind of

your baptism by fire I mean there's that that old country song where he says U some folks get spiritual because they

see the light and some because they feel the heat and I think that the vast majority of people that I've met who

have gone through that process of being saved or being a born again any religion

Christian Muslim whatever uh tend to come from a place where they got into a

very dark path and then they they got to you know people in AA say Rock Bottom a

lot and then you have that Transcendence but that's part of the hero's journey

absolutely yeah and as IM mortal beings trapped in Mortal

bodies we have to we have to we have

to and I don't know how we do it without sounding religious we have to tell people that this Blood needs to be

applied to them because you are an immortal being and there is a life after this that you want to be a part of but

it takes that blood to to cover and to repair the DNA

damage here's something interesting I don't know if you've ever heard of this I know this is a little off topic but

when a woman marries a man and she's with a man the woman's DNA changes do you know that she adopts some of the DNA

from her spouse or her partner so person that has multiple partners is actually a

bit of a chimera a solish chimera because they're a collection of all the pieces of the people that they've been

with so it's important it's important that we remember as we go through life

that we're an IM mortal being and IMM mortal body and and know that's hard for a lot of people but I guess the older I

get the more it's I know it's true and you know I want to help people to have

that Immortal Life to I don't mean like singing on the cloud with the angel and the tensil Halo I mean there's a Savage

World ahead of us and there's a lot of things on the other side that we're going to be doing you know he said we're

going to be priests and Kings well we can't all be on this planet being a priest and King we're going to be across

the Galaxy you know I feel like God's plan for us is huge you know so anyway

sorry that that's so fascinating from the standpoint of um

because it's not something I really thought about myself in depth but think about it you

you'll do it you'll get it you'll understand it these these things are real this the whole the whole reflection

of Noah and I know we're getting off topic but the whole reflection of Noah that he was perfect in his DNA if you do

the Bible study the blueletterbible.org and do the study the word study in

Genesis chapter 6 do the word study and you will see that it's not that he was a

perfect man and he was a perfect Christian his DNA was perfect him and his family were the last ones that's why

God had to put them on a boat and preserve them because they were the only 100% humans it's really funny that you

are actually saying this right now because just last night I was listening to a whole series about Noah and and his

descendency from Enoch um so in I don't know as a person of Faith Like do you do

you think that the Book of Enoch should have been in the cannon yeah I do actually I think a lot of them should

have been in there jubilees Mary Magdalene suanna Joanna all those books

for people to determine for themselves not the Council of niece or

you know the Trent meeting or I can't even remember what it's called now I'm so out of Bible school but um you know

those things were determined by other men I would rather have the we go to

here's what I don't get about Christians we will go to tacitus and we will study

tacitus tacitus was alive I think in 70 BC or 80 I can't remember either side of

the zero he was 70 and he wrote a lot about the Caesars he wrote about the fall of the Roman Empire

Christians will read that and they'll accept that tacitus was alive in 70 and I can understand and believe and trust

that tacitus Rose this but they can't understand and accept and believe that Enoch the grandson of Noah wrote the

Book of Enoch great grand I don't I don't understand that you know I don't understand that make it make sense you

know I think it's very interesting how people um it's a the the termin scient

SC Not Scientology psychology is cognitive dissonance where it's like you

have two conflicting beliefs or or you can accept one thing that logically pans out with something

else but you can't you can accept the one but not the other yeah uh this this plays out all every single human being

is guilty of this it's not I'm not putting anyone down but it's for instance um just the the in in the Old

Testament you have all these people up to up to Noah who lived for you know 900

years something like that right and then now we only live a certain amount of time and then that if you really want to

get deep on that it's because you know there's the idea that the anunaki had a lot to do with it um and that goes way

deep into Egyptian and and earlier Samaran uh and Acadian spirituality

which I think is for me I think it's all connected like I think you have you have the angels that fell then you have the

Nephilim then you have the reim so you have and even today like you mentioned at the very beginning of this

conversation that there are people walking around this Earth that are not people and you're absolutely right

absolutely right that's why you don't know who you're laying down with and you don't know who you're giving having

babies with and you don't know who you're interacting with so you you know you got to be you got to be honed in you

got to you got to have that balance you got to know you got to have your your eyes your spiritual eyes on you can't do

it all the time you got to take breaks especially when you're learning but if you're genuinely tapped

in I feel like you can you even if you don't know it on the surface you know it in your heart like in your soul you'll

feel it like if you're with the wrong person you know you're with the wrong person yeah you know if you're doing the

wrong thing you know you're doing the wrong thing what's harder to figure out is what the right thing to do is at

least in my experience it's like you know if you're let say you're in an unhappy marriage you know you're unhappy

you might convince yourself like oh well I'm staying in this for these reasons or whatever but like you know you're not

happy and in general it's I'm not saying like immediate happiness like in terms

of like straight up Hedonism like immediate gr you know gratification you're not talking low Vibe you're

talking my vibe yeah I'm talking I'm talking about like in yourself like who you really are like you know when

the universe is not rewarding your bad behavior and what's that called intuition right that's something we all

need to tap like you're saying we got to lean into that especially nowadays uh just like and and it says

this also in the chapter six you know in the days of Noah and also after that even on these times that's why that's

why we're seeing this uptick and all this interest in Paranormal Activity it's because there's more of it

happening and there's more of it that's going to happen and there's more things that are going to happen and people are

going to be like oh man what's going on and some of us will know and some of us won't

know so I guess the the next logical step is to ask you when people or when

they are a person like a a human being who passes away and then their Spirit

resides on earth like it stays as a ghost uh so this in my experience

like I I had an experience where like there was a a man who lived in the house that we moved into passed away and he's

still there or at least for me it seems like he's still there I don't at least I

have not yet seen a ghost but I feel like I feel a presence you know and to

ghosts are not to be seen or to be perceived okay uh sometimes you'll see them but those are rare and they don't

usually happen at the beginning of your of your Awakening they usually happen when you're more advanced I like that

word Awakening that's exactly how I described it like a opening is also yeah

absolutely and then the new Awakening do know that's really important to and tap into that um so many times I go to talk

to you about something it's like my brain just goes empty I feel like you're picking up my thoughts before I get a chance to tell them to you um well

that's probably not the worst thing in the world we're all we're tapped in the important thing is that we verbalize it

because it's an audio podcast yeah but I was like there's so many things I want to say it's like you're talking and like

it just goes right on my brain and I like I want to just share all these things with you because it's so rare to find somebody that wants to talk about

the deeper things and you know something I was frustrated with in your other interviews is that they didn't seem to

want to get past the surface level of like oh you're spooky a well tell me more about like not that that's a bad thing but it's like I I genuinely am

curious like what do you think why are you yeah I'm wondering now which interview you saw the one guy was um he

was in the lmbpn publishing company that snagged all my books for a few months till I changed my mind but he I got

interview that okay yeah that was before Co he was blown away that I was a

Christian and doing ghost stuffff yeah I'm like well well okay the Bible says

in I think it's in Mark 16 Jesus says you know he's given us he's given us the

ability to discern Spirits if there were just demons why would we need to discern

anything right okay everything we don't see is a devil everybody got that okay

we're clear that is not what Jesus said human beings are Spirit soul and body

okay this is Monica 101 what I've learned in the almost 60 years that I've been on this Earth so I'm just going to

tell you you can take what you want and toss the rest away for all the listeners and anyone that wants to critique Spirit

soul and body so the body passes away it's cremated or it's plac in the Earth or whatever it is your tradition that

your family does right the soul of the person is anchored with the body

normally uh the soul is your personality the things that you like all the things that make you you

that make you unique they usually go dormant or they can occasionally pop up

uh but they're with the body the spirit however can do a lot of different things

and that's going to depend on the state of the spirit of that Immortal person when they separate when the three chords

are separated so if the three chords are separated and the spirit is uh marked by

the blood of Jesus then that spirit is going to travel to him and he'll send it

somewhere else to do something or you'll be with your family or whatever you guys work out there's a lot of different

things the Bible describes and other written texts described that can happen but it's all good and it's all good good

good so that's happening and also a deceased person if they are their cord

is with the spirit then they can come back to us in dreams and visit with us in dreams they can interact with us most

of the time the Holy Spirit doesn't want like to pull a person together with their

loved one if it's 6 months or less because there's like a there's like a transitional time and you have to give

them the time they need to make that shift it's not just you making a shift they're making a shift and you can pull

them back your love the love that you have with your loved one keeps you connected with them for a very long time

after they're dead um and you're always connected really but just in different ways so the spirit that is redeemed is

with God for his purposes and you guys are working out what you're doing the spirit that is willfully

serving the archons the Devils the demons the the dark side whatever

willfully I feel like are restricted in a holding pattern until a

day in the future and we know what that day is probably and then the third thing

is the person that not purposefully and this is where I L A lot of people but

they're not purposefully serving the archons the demons the Devils or whatevers but they also didn't make this

relationship with with Jesus or partty because they didn't understand that the

immortal life that they had inside of them was Paramount to this encounter so

I personally believe that the grace of God meets them and they have a conversation and they have a decision to

make that's my opinion so the to to to finish the question because that that

was really fascinating like and it's all it's almost like you you know like you were saying earlier like you knew what I was GNA ask before I asked it but like

what so when someone doesn't make that step into the the next life the afterlife Heaven the the whatever you

want to call it um is that is the process of mediumship like

when you were let's say you're going to a house and you're confronting a spirit hasn't moved on and convincing them to

go into the light so to speak is that asking them to make that decision for

themselves or like because I I've heard a lot of people say that it's it's because they don't know their debt they

don't realize but but but in your experience what what is it that prevents them from moving on and how do they move

on there's a lot of things I found a lot of things one thing

is I don't aspire to this I think you can die suddenly and be confused by yeah

but for years and years I don't know that that would be the case um but anyway I feel like that when you're

snatched out dare you go again it's like gone my

answer so when you're snatched out of your life right so if you die very suddenly like

let's say it's an unexpected accident or a or a murder or something like that right right right you'll have people who

stick around for a bit and then so it just requires them to be convinced like hey you're dead by the way that's where

purgatory and people have the name for that that's what that comes in for those of us that do investigations you know we

go into places where there's been residual there's active there's whatever

but yeah um absolutely man this is just so crazy to

me you need to you got to learn to Tamp that ability down but um I imagine your

wife must be Plum frustrated with you sometimes just she's like standing there trying to argue with going what the hell

was I saying you know her name is Faith huh her name is Faith and I don't

think that's a coincidence oh wow okay so I believe that people can come

back and stick around because the process was interrupted someone tried to communicate with them too quickly and

it's taken a little longer for them to do the process there are things that happen on the other side there's things

that happen there's interaction that have to take place there are prayers that were made and promises and

Covenants that have to be fulfilled you have to interact with people on the other side you got to have a

conversation you got to there's a lot of things so a person that's lingering they

either are in a Purgatory State they are confused or they are reluctant to go and

as a medium if I've determine that it's a human and they're not crossed over

into a ared situation cuz there are humans there are dark beings which I'm

going to put everything under there are angels and then there are there are

pairs where a human is paired with a demon or a human is paired with whatever that can happen a lot in death like the

if you die as an addict sometimes unfortunately the soul is captured by

that addiction and that demon is allowed to drag that Soul around because the

soul was captured and it's in a state of capture captivity when it surrenders the

third cord so it's with the demon but as a medium I can come in there and do

Warfare with a demonologist or an ordained minister that believes in

demons because that's important and I can go in there and have a discussion

while he's pushing back the darkness and I can talk to them and O chill bumps and

help them get free and then immediately you have to shut the door I mean immediately you have to

purposefully do it you have to say it you have to speak it you have to be on purpose when you do this kind of work

and it's really dangerous so one time um at my church uh we had a young man that

came in he was in his 20s he was on he struggling with an addiction he came to the church one time we got to minister

to him to be with him to love on him to get to know him we hang out with him afterwards and chatted with him he was

going to come back that next Sunday well he got murdered and um instead of seeing

him someday I came home and we didn't know at the time that he died

but I dreamed about him I'm like why am I dreaming about this kid you know he's screaming in my face and I wake up and

he's still there screaming in my face and then my husband who's a pastor comes in there and he's like who is this

person running around the house because my husband doesn't see spirits but this

guy was connected to my husband because he came to him before he died so um I'm

like I think I know who it is and then I got the call from a church member telling us that this young man was dead

so I said well I know what we got to do and so um my son was there who's also I told you a man of God so we were there

they were praying and my son's like Mom I don't know what you got to do but you need to do it fast because this thing is coming in hot so it's growling you can

hear it with your ears well I'm dealing with this guy and he steps over and it was amazing do I know what happened on

the other side of that door no I don't but I can with full confidence say that whatever happens on the other side of

that door is just and whatever happens on the other side of that door is what needs to happen and I never promise the

spirit or the ghost rather I never promise a human ghost that they're going to go to heaven unless it's a child but

most of the time in my experience I don't meet children right children are not

lingering if someone's telling you that Sally or the children a child it is not

a child that's exactly what I think I I think that it is very common for

something that is malicious to want like I said earlier like it wants your sympathy it wants to convince you that

you're doing the right thing by letting it in and that's all that's such a those words are so common when it comes to

anything to do with demonology because uh anybody who's even read the first

book on the subject would know you have to invite this into your life addiction it could manifest in so many different

ways so like don't take this for the people listening strictly if you're not a spiritual person fine it's cool well

anything in your life at all that is negative you pretty much have to allow it to begin some some degree yes but if

you have the Miss opportunity of moving into a property right where somebody

done some junk that you didn't know about then you may have activity that you did that isn't merited to you it's

not karmic but it's happening to you because it happened in that location so

I agree with you 100% except for the caveat that it can be location based so

on that note places that are haunted by malicious beings that aren't summoned by

the person you know in question like the the the victim in this case does this typically come about because someone was

dabbling in something they shouldn't have been or like a heinous act happened like how how do you think that that occurs to be honest with you most of the

things I encounter are really ancient and they were already here um

but uh people activate them in different ways they can do it through music they

can do it through spells they can do it through sex magic they can do it a lot of different ways I mean I want to

empower them but there's a lot of ways that people can bring those things to light to bring them

give them power but it's going to take your soul it's going to take your life

first you know just what I don't get uh so weird just so weird people will spend

their life for a little bit of power in this Mortal life when you're in a mortal being come on it tends to happen from

desperation in a lot of cases it's not I don't think it's someone who's necessarily inherently evil but they're

desperate oh I've met some inherently evil people for sure there are there are those there or you know we say people

but as we said earlier they might not be you know if you're truly truly evil purely then if there's nothing in you to

be saved are you really a human being or are you something else are you that's a

million dollar question ain't it yeah um I don't know and I can't prove it but I

would say I'm not gonna pretend I know to to back that up a little bit there a

lot of people who make deals with the devil are people who are sad desperate lonely you know whatever and they're

they hen their the sin is Hedonism they are looking for immediate gratification

go ahead that was me me too I mean I think everyone that's what I did and

that was so hard to shake I'm telling you I was saved and still couldn't get rid of it I mean I was saved and it was

dormant for years and years and it just came back to life after I got married you know and I was a Christian and I was

serving in church and I don't understand you know I don't understand we rebuke it in Jesus name well I did that you know

well use oil well I did that no one told me I had to renounce

him and that's where that's where the freedom came is I had to renounce that

Covenant I had to renounce the thing that I offered and I had to just put it

in and I had to immediately I say I renounced this contract this agreement

in the name of Jesus and I call the Holy Spirit to come in and be my lawyer I'm

not dealing with you and you got to do that again and again and again and again and again because they'll come back again and again and again but eventually

it'll stop well the devil's the world's greatest salesman I mean he didn't even

have to sell me I was stupid I was high as a kite facing jail I made a deal in

the dark didn't think anybody heard me but he did and it cost

me it's very interesting how that comes about I so um I was talking earlier

about Art Bell Coast to Coast AM radio show is my hero I even have his signed book right next to me but he did an

episode about he wanted to hear from callers who had made a deal with the

Devil he's like if you've ever made a deal with the devil I want to hear what what you did how how did you do it why

all that sort of thing and almost universally it's from people who are nihilistic like so they don't it's not

like they like I want to make a deal with the devil it's like they don't believe that the devil exists they don't

think anything matter so what do I have to lose by saying something like oh come on I don't yeah give me a million

dollars and I'll give you my soul who cares and then they don't realize the consequences of doing that because they

didn't take it seriously so it's like as you said like you I wouldn't say you're stupid ignorant you know naive abely

absolutely 18y old 19y old strung out on drugs 20s 21 22 I mean absolutely stupid

hedonistic very much so lived a hedonistic lifestyle money fell through my fingers you know um I was singularly

popular of course and you are when you're running with drugs and criminals

but here's the thing a lot of us don't make these deals for million dollars

like you said you know we make it for stupid things or we don't really believe that it's an actual thing but it is an

actual thing there's always someone listening always

always that's why in an investigation like if you're going to help someone or whatever and you get in there and

someone in the home starts paring back something you said earlier you know you're not dealing with the human

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show you're dealing with a demon and so those things know they're not with you

they're not omnipresent or omniscient but they travel and they listen and

they'll come and see what you're coming for and they'll take a look and hang around so you know word of the wise they

are listening always always but the good thing is the Angelic realm which we didn't

really talk much about tonight but the Angelic realm which was just as expansive and somewhat creepy

in some ways but in a good way uh but there are dragons there are Elementals

there are fairy types there are all kinds of things that God created that are barricaded off from us for now but

they are there and you know sometimes people slip through things slip through people interact with them maybe that's a

good place to kind of like because we only scheduled two hours today we could definitely do more because I feel like we could talk forever but yeah

briefly the reason why I think um I get so fascinated with the darker side of

stuff is because I'm always met with anytime you're curious about this stuff you're met with this idea that being

educated on it inherently means that you're a sinner or that you're you know you're gonna be possessed and Priests

especially that deal with exorcism tend to say things like uh don't like you should know that demons exist but you

shouldn't know anything about them like you don't want to and I'm of the opinion and I could be convinced otherwise but

I've always been of the opinions like if you need to know your enemy like so if I was going to like I'm I don't know that

I would ever do this but I like if I was an exorcist I would want to know which demon I'm dealing with like I would want to know of the key of Solomon which one

is this I'm dealing with and I would want to be able to figure out which one it was with data like with information

about what SS did they attach them to what kind of promises do they make how do they get manifested in the first

place because if you're trying to figure that out it would seem like you'd want to know like if you walked into a person who was doing a

Seance or a ritual to try to summon something on purpose um and there's a specific way that they do this

particular entity or if they do it by accident because they didn't know what they were doing which is more often the case of the thing um I would want to

know what you're up against uh but there's so much push back against

knowing these things like you know like Alistair Crowley I mean obviously he fell into a really dark life at the end

of it but you know a lot of the work he did I think was worth knowing or at least worth being curious about and I'm

a guy that goes astral traveling and gets caught out yeah you know I'm

telling you what I think of him like we lost a soldier on the battlefield with that guy we lost a lot of information that's

for sure I mean I don't know if I would say he's on my side or the other side or someone else's side here's another thing

there's not just two sides so there's two basic sides but um

on on both sides you have factions right so like in our mortal realm of Believers

and like you say priests say are you know pastors don't like Pastors in my case your case priests or whatever but

would say don't study that you know uh don't even fool with that but they're learning what what was said to them

right but all that is is to put control on people that's all it is it's in in a

way it would if if fell the information fell in the wrong hands maybe they would hurt themselves but you know what

they're going to hurt themselves anyway you need to teach them how to protect themselves you know that's that's

something that they need to know they need to know I think it's really profound that you say that there's multiple factions and there's also

multiple entities or at least you know if you're studying this stuff at nauseum it's G to come up at some point whatever

absolutely yeah but like Christians almost always um at least on the surface

like your average every like Christian will conflate the devil and every demon

into one thing and of course they're all connected but like if you're dealing with bezel buub or you're dealing with

like uh uh I don't know you gotta name him yeah I get it right it's different

than if you're dealing with the the another one yeah the big dude downstairs like himself or what I I would imagine

that there's like a there's a different way abely they have different wants they have different motivations and it's

gonna that knowing sometimes though to get the name of that thing you got to be on the

property and you're going to have to be there for hours and hours and wear it down with EVPs and you got to wear it

down you got to get out of here you got to you you got you got to go after it and once you know what it is it you'll

get the name and then when you have the name you can use the name and command it

to leave but once you unless you know the name you're not going to be able to command it if it's something that's summoned by by which the chances are

you're probably not going to know the name unless the spirit gives you the name Holy Spirit by the way um or well

I'm just going to go with that because that's what I work with I can't approve of the other stuff I don't know but um

for me in my case if it's the Holy Spirit he'll give me the name uh or if

it's a name that I don't need to know he doesn't give me the name but gives me the authority to command it to leave and

I do that and put up either of some

sort so I I guess toward the last 20 minutes or so here we can focus on the

the other side of things so okay Angels what are they how do how do they manifest themselves Angels um something

I've learned later in life and I can't even tell you where I picked this up from but I've proven it's true

um all the names of God have an angel attached to them for example

in I think it's Isaiah which is my personally my favorite Bible book of the

Bible is Isaiah but Isaiah and John those two resonate with me and then Enoch and then others that I read but um

but anyway please don't take my thoughts I'm

not H I'm just falling into the hole I'm tired but anyway um as I was saying what

was I saying so you were talking about your your favorite book was Isaiah yeah yeah Isaiah the Angels every name uh in

the Bible like oh vanquisher if you look up the vanquisher when you call on the

name of God with that name there's an angel attached to that name that responds to that name so if you're like

oh vanquisher come and save me oh vanquisher come and save me and you know we get told you can't be repetitive

God's not going to hear your repetitions well it does help sometimes s or people wouldn't be praying the the Hail Mary

you know or the rosary but it does help it folks you helps you focus it may not move the spirit more but it helps you

and that's what's important because you got to connect so for Angels connecting with angels getting to know the names of

God there are angels associated with those names but a lot of times those names are hidden and they're only in the

esoteric writing so you may not know understand those names a lot of the

Angels names are hidden from us because God knew that some of us would want to try to command them and we are not to

command them we're to work with them we can ask them for help uh often I call on

Michael the Archangel when I'm doing serious big bad Duty daddy boodoo daddy

you know battles when I'm dealing with something bad I'll call on him or others you know and so there are names that you

can call on I have been to an investigation before where there were two parts of the

haunting one was outside and one was inside inside the haunting was human

spirits but they were on the they were on the Crux of becoming inhuman that can

happen too um but anyway that's a subject for another time but so human Spirits can

just if they're evil and they continually evolve as evil on the other side they can become that right they can

attach to that and that's their identity but you know Angels calling on them

working with them like Joshua you know he's like who are you are you with the

for you you with our enemy are you with us he's like I'm not with either one of y'all I'm with God so we have to have

that mindset again it's not just God and the devil it's not just light and darkness there's factions and the angels

are a faction of the light side now in that Angelic realm there are the

traditional archangels there are the cheram which are the protection Angels

uh mostly over holy relics like the Ark of the Covenant or in the temple um and

there are other classifications there are dragons that are holy there are lions that are holy there I've seen so

many different ones you know um and they interact and people have Angels my son

one of his angels looks like a lion and so we get a lot of we get we joke a lot

about when we see an a graphic of an a lion because they're like oh your Angel's here and so he's encouraged by

that because he sees that but they really are around us and interacting with us uh we just don't look for them

we we look for the darkness because we're we don't feel that the light is more exciting or you know we're not as

intrigued by the light but the the light is also can be very terrifying and

sometimes when you step into an environment where there's a haunting or you so you're told The Haunting you have

to know in your mind and in your spirit that sometimes when it's a Holy Angel

you'll also get that feeling of dread that feeling of dread will come

from the other realm no matter what it is it could be around your bed at night Angels that's stopping by to heal you

for something or to visit you or someone prayed over you and they're coming by to check on you you happen to wake up at 2:

in the morning you're like oh I don't like this and it wasn't anything bad it's just that you were awake and you

were able to perceive the presence of this terrible Angel you know terrible I mean

as in they promote Terror in us because they're fully Immortal whereas where these Immortals housed inmortal bodies

and so our response is different so what else do you want to know about angels I'm not sure what else

to so there's so much to talk about uh in that regard but like for for instance the the depiction of angels because you

brought up lions and Dragons um often the dragon uh I would conflate with the

serpent but you see these depictions that are like the head of you know Lions dragons uh bulls or or boar or whatever

like that and then a human and they they're all conflated into one or the Sphinx I think is another extremely

common example even the Arc of the Covenant is described as having you two sphinxes facing each other and I think

that that the symbols that each of these things represent are quite interesting I wonder if that's born of human

understanding from Earth trying to project our ideas of something from nature onto something bigger than

ourselves or if their symbols are handed down from the top yeah personally my

personal my personal thoughts are that there were

Watchers before there were angels and Watchers which were a different class of

angels they were a teaching Angel an educational Angel um a lot of them were

here from what I study okay right and I could be wrong but from what I study

there a lot of them were here uh in ancient Egyptian times and they were

teaching and they were interacting and the people they they shared these uh

encounters with art so we have you know the constant of that and I think that

the Earth was ruled by the Watchers and that you could say that they were little G's and Little G's do goddesses you know

you could say that U the Bible does call the sons of God you know who is he

talking about he's talking about the Angels because only Jesus is the actual Heir parent but there are all these

angels that are that were created by God because unlike human beings each Angel

was created individually there are no Mass you know

ioot Angels okay I'm going do 10,000 of this and 10,000 of that no everyone of them is a separate being it's a

beautiful has its own talents and its own abilities had their own language their own height hair color you know

they have all of that all of the wonderful things that we know nothing about um that that's all entangled in

the angel World Angel realm so our interactions with them are limited I

feel like and not as accessible as the darkness because God is more protective

of his secrets and also there is a requirement to accessing those beings

there's a requirement and I mean I don't mean anything religious but I mean there's you got to be at a place inside

of you that you can interact with these beings whereas if you're just going to Waverly Hills to encounter you know a

dead crazy guy or maybe a demonic presence or whatever is lingering around

you know you don't have to work for it but whereas if you want to encounter an angel or if you want to have an Angelic

encounter or even a Jesus encounter or a realm encounter where you're just in

that realm you can have those you can pursue those but it takes work to get there and people don't want to do that

they'd rather just you know experience the Paranormal the easy way which is by grabbing our k2s and our digital

recorders and I'm just as guilty I love it but you know it's

different why do you think that Michael and Gabriel are so intrinsically important to

people because they were featured in intrinsically important important stories I mean they're both messenger

angels and they play a role in the past and they if you

were not a religious person and someone that just reads the Bible and just

studies on your own you'll know that uh they also are involved in end times

activities so you'll see them again you know and I think people are just they're used to those names so we've seen them

in Christmas plays you know we've seen we're familiar with them but we're not so familiar with Uriel we're not so fam

familiar with Raphael or you know all these other ones um so yeah I think God

just keeps his cards very close to his vest I think this realm is very protected I think it's like

Massad you know I don't know what the top I don't know anymore my dad was a seal in my day to me the seals were the

top guns because you know that's what I grew up with I you know what team it was on huh do you know which team he was on

no I don't and he's gone oh my dad scrubbed out he had a blown eardrum in

the third year so he got put in electronics and come to find out my dad had a natural skill to break codes and

he didn't even know it he was put in as a code breaker a cryptologist yeah he

would go to all the bases that were getting closed and the government would send him and pimp him out to other governments and he would close their

bases but I mean he did all that stuff he did all that c i mean he did all that with paper and pencils and teletypes

before computers you know so my dad did all that stuff that's very cool my dad

taught me how to fight because I'm like short and small and uh he's like girl you're short and small you're always

going to be short and small here's how you fight number one grab a handful of dirt teacher daughter this number two

sling the dirt in their eyes number three pop the hell out of them and run for your

life there you go so that's what the daav guys taught me well thank you so much for all the

all the time and all of the insight and everything this has been really really eye opening honestly like it's not the

kind of conversation you get to have every day and especially in the context of this podcast a lot of it is very

material you know very much about things that go on at computers so it's nice to get like the metaphysical side of things

as well oh I definitely brought that I'm sorry no it's good that's what I wanted

um okay I hope that we can do it again in the future as well absolutely just holler at me so first of all let's make

sure people know to go to ml buck.com to get all of your books uh and to it's all on Amazon but I

also noticed a lot of it is available on audio book and I'm going to do this for your listeners if anybody wants a

paperback copy of delivered me from evil I will be happy to send them that for free uh they can just email me at author

@gmail.com I should have asked you this first I'm sorry no it's fine is that okay yeah yeah plug it all you want that

the only thing I don't recommend is to like you know give out your you know don't put a return address on it no no

no uh I my address is not on that envelope trust me I've had some weird

encounters um especially when it comes to like spiritual things because people get very passionate and do a lot of

crazy stuff yes I know um what else did I want to say oh next time we have to

talk about King Arthur I know that you did like the whole pin dragon series uh and I am obset the The Once and feature

King is my all-time favorite oh my God I love it have you read p laads p

Merlin Merlin yes ton Marlin Arthur I'm

gonna have to you're gonna have to give me a reading list of yeah God tal Essen is so good that's Merlin's

father his mother was Atlantean and tal Essen is oh man there so oh yeah we'll

have to do a whole another you know thing on like the the angels and the involvement of the the Quest for the Grail and all that stuff because I

taller at me I'll be glad to talk I'm good at that yeah let's do that um but

for for now you have a good night thank you very much thank you so much for inviting me and thanks to

Alex by bye y'all God bless God bless you too

[Music]

bye thank you very much to Monica for coming on the show I really really appreciate it it's like super cool to uh

you know get to talk about those topics that I think a lot of us avoid to a

large extent um and you know I hope that that I get to do that a lot more I think that're we're definitely going to have

her back on um anybody that remembers Art Bell you know he would always have Linda Molton how on for like everything

that we need someone like that probably for the keep uh let's see want to say

thanks to all of our wonderful supporters over on patreon if you're a paid member you do get a shout out on

the podcast just letting you know so I want to say thank you to Shannon

to Michael CL to Frederick shriber to Brad Carney to the wonderful dots OA and

the Great and Powerful Bridge Burner I really really appreciate all the help and uh just so y'all know man this this

show is not just a side project anymore this is what I'm doing uh to a large extent as well as working on in the keep

stuff so we got games and development we got this going on and uh this is my

Enterprise I hope that you will uh support it can uh go find everything you

need to know inth keep.com all of the latest episodes there updates on our games uh articles uh links to all the

different ways to support by the way you don't just have to support through patreon you can make like donations and

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you pretty sure God loves you till next time stay in the key