Francesca Hurt is an expert in understanding how floods operate but what is about her passion for gardening that has changed the way she thinks about life?

I'm Dhruti Shah, and this is my podcast. Have You

Thought About I'm a writer who loves to find out about what

passions people are pursuing, especially if they're managing

to blend together their skills in unusual ways. In each

edition, I'm going to chat with someone I find particularly

interesting and who's managed to fit things together in their

life or profession that you might not think of as an obvious

match. You're about to hear me chatting with Francesca Hurt a

chartered flood risk specialist.

Hi, Fran. Now we've known each other since we were teenagers,

and I tell you every time we meet up, you are a renaissance

woman. I think you can do just about anything, sewing, cooking,

camping, driving, magical mystery tours. There's so much

to talk about, but before we get into that, what are you doing to

help protect the environment? I mean, you work in flood risk

management, but what is that?

Basically looking at trying to assess

flood risk, you know, in the UK, internationally, and try and

figure out the sort of, like the source of the flood risk,

mechanisms of it, who's going to be affected, and then how to

mitigate against it, really, and so reduce loss of life in a

flood, or loss of property damage, and reduce the loss of

expenses and cost people losing their homes, and try and make

people more resilient as well to manage their own flood risk and

take control of their own risk.

At what point did you realize that flood risk

management was your thing?

I guess I was a big geography geek. I was kind

of maybe a little bit obsessed with natural disasters as a

child, which is slightly odd, I guess, but volcanoes and

earthquakes and big floods fascinated me. So yeah. So I

just started geography at university, and then I ended up

doing a more applied Master's in environmental water management.

One of the modules was on flood risk, and I loved it. It was one

of my it was my favorite thing of the whole Master's course.

And then, yeah, luckily, my first graduate job was with a

flood specialist, flood risk consultancy, so I've been in it

ever since.

But a lot of people are speaking about flooding now,

that's something that definitely is coming up when you talk about

things like climate change, but for you, it's something that has

clearly been a passion for quite a long time. So now that you see

that there are more discussions and more action being taken

around flood floods and flood risk. Do you feel slightly

vindicated, in a way?

I don't know if vindicated is the right word,

but it's good to see that the general sort of awareness of it

as a risk is rising. I guess now you know there's been so much

good information out there about the flood risk, especially in

the UK, for well over a decade now. But actually, this year was

the first time I ever saw anyone, oh, you should go check

your flood risk on the EA flood map. I mean, that flood map has

been around for a long time, free online, but that was one of

the first times I'd ever seen on TV was this year.

That was the Environment Agency that you're

talking about, the that their flood risk, because the

listeners are from all over the world, but you haven't just

worked in the UK, and you haven't just looked at water

management, flood water management in the UK. You've

gone to the Caribbean?

I was really fortunate. One of the projects I

got to work on a few years back was over in the British Virgin

Islands. They've got a particular problem with

flooding. They get lots of hurricanes every year. So and as

well as that, they just get, you know, your general tropical

rain. So, yeah. So that was great. We went out there. We did

a lot of work with them, looking at trying to, again, model the

risk. So I'm a flood risk modeler, by by, I guess,

technical background. So there was lots of modeling of drainage

systems and channels and trying to understand how much water was

coming out of the sky and where it was going, what sort of

depths of water they'd be experiencing. Then we worked

with some great engineers from the Caribbean to look at

solutions that could be put in place. We ran some really great

road shows. We called it flood week, and we were standing in

supermarket car parks talking to member the public about things

that they could do to their home, just like little things,

just to try and stop the water getting in, just to try and keep

their property safe. It ties in with the hurricane preparedness

that is so key out there as well. But yeah, and we got to go

into some schools, which was great. And at the time, I was a

guide leader, and I went to go to a guide meeting out there as

well. So it was, it was really sort of fulfilling, sort of like

work experience, learning about other countries, other cultures,

whilst also doing your day to day sort of job.

And why is it so important for you to be involved

in these sort of community activities? Because you're

involved in in the guiding movement for quite a long time

too, and that is very much a commitment that's been around

for quite a while as well. But for you, generally, what drives

you to do these things? Because volunteering is not always easy.

It's not easy, but I think if what you volunteer in

you enjoy, it makes it easier. Yeah, you give up your time, but

you get as much out of volunteering as someone gets out

of you. I think those situations, it's good to give

back, isn't it,?

And with the guiding, I mean, how did that

help you navigate life? I guess you know, were you learning all

those survival skills, like, what are you doing in the

guiding that helps you nowadays and in other parts of your life?

I used to laugh with the ladies I used to do the

guide leading with that. When I was a guide was a bit different.

Back in, like, the 80s and 90s, we did badges, like the home.

Make a badge. So they taught us how to clean and I learned how

to wash up properly, but I did also learn how to change a tire

and put up a tent and start a fire and things like that as

well. So it was a bit of a mix, but yeah, so maybe that is where

some of those skills have come from over the years.

And let's sort of stay with that outdoors theme

that you're an incredibly keen gardener. In fact, you have an

Instagram account focusing on your own garden and how you're,

I don't know. Guess creating something that's very, very

natural. Tell us more about what it is about gardening that you

love the most and how you got into it.

Probably would say it's one of my passions in life. Is

gardening the hobby that takes up the most of my time. I got

into it through my granddad was a very keen gardener. He used to

grow seeds every year. He had an amazing greenhouse. It was

massive, and he had a huge garden. And, you know, he used

to grow its beds like potatoes, rhubarb and tomatoes. So I guess

I was exposed to it at quite a young age. And then I remember

doing a design project at school on looking at garden design

through the ages. So, like, I went around to visit lots of

sort of like, different gardens that had been created. That had

been created, and then there was that sort of like, boom of gun

design TV programs in the 90s that sort of like sparked my

imagination. I suppose it was, no, it's probably about 20 years

ago, I just started to grow my own plants. I used to borrow my

dad's greenhouse and just start growing plants. And it's

amazingly satisfying, maybe or rewarding, to just get some soil

plant a seed, and all of a sudden this magic happens. And

obviously you need to water it and nurture it and keep it

alive, but and you have a plan, and it's just amazing, fortunate

to finally get my own garden a couple of years ago, and that's

been my life at the moment, trying to transform it. But I

think growing plants is one of my favorite things. It's so

calming just sowing seeds and potting up plants, it is good

for the mental health, and it's so peaceful. You do it early in

the morning, listening to the birds singing.

What are your favorite plants like? What is

something that you've always made sure is in any garden that

you've been involved in anything you know, even if you can't

plant it in the soil outside that you've made sure that

you've had it near you.

I like in any garden are plants that will give you

interest in the winter, because I think lots of people think of

gardens and likes in the summer and you got pretty flowers and

vegetables, but there are some beautiful, beautiful plants out

there that just bring you so much joy and color through a

garden through the winter. And so even on the coldest day, you

can go outside and you'll get this, like this bright something

will ping at you, be it like a really nice bright red dog word,

or like a beautiful witch hazel with his yellow sort of ferals

on it. So they're lovely. And then in the summer, I need I

love geraniums. Love them. Can't look about them. They're just

joyous little pom plants. You get them in such I think maybe

also the colors.

Since you're a young child, you've had to deal

with asthma. So how have you managed to, again, navigate life

with asthma? Because air pollution is something that's

been discussed extensively right now, and there is a lot of

conversation around asthma and around breathing and respiratory

issues, but this is something you've had since you were a kid,

so, but you're also amongst the most active people that I know.

So how do you marry the two? I mean, this is probably breaking

my stereotypes here.

Everyone who has asthma has a different trigger. Mine

was always fur cats, so I've managed it by never having a

pet. Unfortunately, I was the kid that was never allowed a pet

because I was allergic to pretty much everything growing up,

other than a fish. I had fish. Yeah, so and like, you know, but

you're right, dust and smoke. I mean, the smoking ban helped

massively all those years ago, because that used to really get

to you back in the day. It's strange, I suppose, because I've

had it since I was so young. I guess I'd just have to learn to

live with it. I was lucky that when I was a teenager, a new

drug came onto the market, and it worked for me, and it kept

everything in control. And Touchwood, it's kept everything

in control since, you know, take your medicine every day, and you

have to just get on with it. But yeah, you're right, the

pollution, you can definitely tell, even I can tell if I

could, I could go away to this, like the seaside, you can

definitely tell the difference.

But you had a mum who was like, You're not gonna

let your asthma stop you from doing stuff. So if you know,

family's clearly quite important to you, but in terms of having

someone help you believe, I guess in yourself in that

respect, how important also, yeah,

I guess it was important to basically make sure

you just knew that you could, you could get up and do

everything I didn't always appreciate as a kid, when my mom

used to make me do all the running races at school, even

though I'd always come last, because it was always a bit of a

struggle. But she's like, just, you still did it. You still did

it. That's the main thing. Maybe that's why I don't necessarily

see asthma as a barrier to anything.

You and I have gone on quite a few magical mystery

tours in the past, but you do travel quite a lot, and why is

it so important for you to be able to go and explore the world

and just go and see what else is out there? And you've gone on

trips by yourself this year, and that's actually quite important,

because some people are a bit scared to go on trips as a solo

traveler, but you have gone on road trips. You have like, you

know, you've. Know what helps you on those journeys?

I've done a few solo sort of travel experiences. The

main one was going around Scotland, and I think so, yeah,

so I guess the one I went on fully by myself, where I just

literally checked myself off, was when I just decided to jump

in the car and drive around the north coast of Scotland, part of

the North Coast, 500 drive. And I think it was great to get away

and experience and just see some of the amazing scenery that this

country has to offer. It's just, it's just nice to get out and

about and you, you know, see different things, meet different

people, hear different accents, and realize how friendly

everyone is everywhere, doing it solo. I mean, I've said I

planned it all, and I made sure I was safe, so if staying in

sets with places, and, you know, I didn't put myself in any sort

of like silly situations, but Scotland was kind of familiar,

even though I hadn't ever been there. So maybe that's why it

made it feel a bit safer.

having that planning and prepping is that

quite important, is that something you'd sort of

recommend, that if you are potentially going off on on your

own somewhere, then I guess to break down that risk a little

bit,

I work in a in a risk management job. So I've always,

you always say, you know, risk management comes into

everything. So, you know, you risk assess things. So for me, I

liked to know where I was going, where I was going to be saying,

give up to you, like your mom, being like, I'm going to be here

on these days. And think, although we live in a world now,

we've got mobile phones, it's not quite the same as it used to

be. But even so, you know, you know they feel, they feel

better. But yeah, I think that's it. Maybe it's just, I'm a

partner, because I've just, you know, that's my in my nature to

do, to assess risk and try and think about things, either that

or I'm an overthinker.

Aren't we all? Aren't we all? What is it about

the 80s that keeps you dancing?

Well, I would say it's the music. It's the music that

keeps me dancing. I don't know why. I just I fell in love with

it. Child of the 80s, in some ways, grew up through it, wasn't

overly aware of most of the 80s music. When I was growing up in

the 80s. You know, my first album was Jason Donovan, who,

well, you know, still a fan. Do you know what it was? It was

probably VH 180s music videos on and it was just like the clothes

and the image and just songs are so great. Actually, you're

really good at this.

How do you maintain such long friendships? Because

not everybody does, the older that they get, but I know that

finally, you're already actually quite good at cementing these

sort of friendships and staying in touch with people that you've

been friends with since you were very little children, which I've

never been able to do. So what is it about you that you think

gives you that ability, especially in a world which is

very disconnected.

I don't think I necessarily have any magical

superpower. I think it helps to make time for people meet up

with people, you know, you know being you know, I'm not married,

I don't have kids. So friendships are really important

to me. So I guess try and make an effort and make the time to

stay in touch when I can. It's nice to meet up and maintain

those friendships. No, it's strange, isn't it? I think

friendships evolve, don't they, you even and you know, not all

friendships evolve in the same direction. People do evolve

apart. Maybe I've just been fortunate, my friends have

evolved. No,

it's interesting, though, because I know I talk to

other people. I don't, I don't actually have a lot of friends,

but I think of it in terms of, like the bus journey. Like some

people get on your bus and then some people get off your bus,

but your bus seems to be quite a long bus. Is what I'm saying is

there's a lot of room on your bus. Fran, at the from what I

can see, and that's really interesting, that you're able to

sort of keep people going on that on that long journey, and

for quite a long time, because not everybody has that ability,

you

know, and it's not been with everyone. I've

lost touch with friends that I work key parts of my life, for

periods of my life that I don't see or speak too much. I mean,

maybe proximity has a lot to do with it as well, I think, you

know, and we've got other friends from school that still

live in the same area, and I think that helps maintain that

friendship as well, because, you know, you're more likely to see

someone if they live close by. Yeah,

you do, but we don't see each other as much as

perhaps we'd like to, and it's because life is is not always

easy. Yeah, exactly. Life is busy. Yeah, I have never met

anyone as engaged with Christmas as you like, you do a lot in

terms of, you know, we know when Christmas is coming because

it's, it's, it's your thing. You are a countdown of Christmas. As

far as I'm concerned. You also do things like the wreath

making. You know, you talk quite a few of us in our friend group

about how to create things, decorations, etc, for Christmas,

but it really is, is a joyous occasion for you,

suppose there's a lot a lot about Christmas's

tradition, isn't it? You just bring out these things like the

same time each year. You know, I've got decorations that were

my parents, decorations from the 70s, and things like that. And,

you know, I bring them out now, and they're like my decorations.

I think maybe I was fortunate. Christmas was always a really

fun, happy time for me as a kid growing up, my mom's, how did

you put it? Engaged with Christmas,

diplomatic the

fact that she was a big fan and made it such a

big thing for me and my brother as we were kids, you know, or a

happy time, and got a big extended family. And so it was

two days of the year where I basically used to spend it with

my entire extended family, uncles, aunties, cousins, and it

was just so much fun.

And that was the amazing Francesca Hurt. Do you

have an interdisciplinary life? Because I would love to hear

from you, and maybe we can chat on this podcast that goes with

my newsletter, which is also called Have You Thought about

and can be found via www.dhrutishah.com Please join

me next time for a fun conversation with another guest

who likes to mix up lots of things in their life. Do listen

to past episodes and rate review the podcast if you've enjoyed

it. Thanks to Rian Shah for the music