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Navigating Horse Encounters: Promoting Awareness and Safety for Horse Riders and Drivers
Episode 105 • 1st August 2024 • The Driving Confidence Podcast • Kev & Tracey Field
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In this episode, Kev and Tracey are joined by Alan Hiscox, the director of safety for the British Horse Society. They discuss the importance of respecting and understanding horse riders as vulnerable road users.

We chat about:

  • The key messages for passing a horse safely
  • The three brains on the road, you, the rider and the horse 
  • Resources on the BHS website

While listening to this episode, ask yourself:

  • How do you feel when encountering a horse on the road?
  • Have you previously considered the perspective of the horse or rider?
  • Would you feel confident knowing what to do next time you encounter a horse?

British Horse Society: https://www.bhs.org.uk/

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Transcripts

audioKevField:

So on this episode, we're delighted to welcome

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Alan Hiscox, who's the Director of

Safety for the British Horse Society.

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Welcome Alan.

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audioalan.hiscox11403142102:

Hello, and thanks very much for

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the invitation for this podcast.

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audioKevField21403142102:

And thank you for coming on.

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So Alan, my first question is,

because a lot of people will not know

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what the British Horse Society is.

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What actually is it?

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What do you do?

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audioalan.hiscox11403142102:

Okay, that's a, that's a very

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good question to start on.

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We are the, um, the largest EQU

charity in the uk and, , we cover

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four main areas, uh, the education,

which is teaching people how to ride

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and how to look after, , horses and,

and, um, anything to do with that.

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So we have some, some stages there

that people can, can take assessments.

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Then we have the welfare department

that really looks after, , the welfare

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of horses out and about in the UK.

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You know, especially perhaps if

people see a horse in a field

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that's, undernourished, they

can, they can let us know.

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Then there's the access department

that looks after all the safe off

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road access for bridleways and

getting horses, actually, which

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is very important, off the roads.

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And then there's the safety,

, team, which is, uh, I head up.

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We're a small but perfectly formed team

of three to cover the whole of the UK.

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And, we are the one stop shop for

anything and everything that may

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cause a carriage driver or horse

rider, you know, an issue with safety.

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So it could be low flying aircraft,

drones, slippery road surfaces.

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Dogs, you know, it's that great one,

it's okay, my dog is okay with the

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horses, but my horse might not be

okay with dogs, so we work with, uh,

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Dogs Trust, RSPCA and Kennel Club.

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Uh, fireworks, you know, far too

many injuries are caused with

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fireworks being let off around horses.

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, but I would say our main thrust, and

95 percent of our work, is all about,

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, safety of horses and, uh, riders and

carriage drivers and horses on the roads.

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And that's what we're really focused

on with the, with the safety team.

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So, in a nutshell, that's

the British Horse Society,

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and that is the safety team.

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audioKevField21403142102: Yeah.

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massive, isn't it?

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Yeah, yeah, that's it.

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And it's a whole new world, I think, For

somebody who isn't a horsey person, maybe

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then they may never have heard of you.

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We see you a lot at conventions

and sort of like industry events,

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so driving instructors know about

you and are hopefully passing on

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messages to their learner drivers.

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But, we just felt that there that you

could bring a whole load of information

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to our listeners, things that they

might never have thought about.

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audioalan.hiscox11403142102:

Well, yeah, I hope so.

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And as you say, it's a bit of a, an

anomaly horses, sometimes everybody

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sees them in the fields, but when you

actually see a horse on a road or a

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carriage on the, on the road, you know,

it can sort of raise the eyebrows.

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And, , you know, I know there's a

lot of drivers out there that sort

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of go, Oh, well, What do I do now?

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So, yeah, it's a really important, um,

subject and, , one that the British Horse

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Society really wants to, you know, involve

ourselves with driving instructors, , and

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the police and road safety partnerships

and local authorities just to increase

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that, , awareness of, , what to do

if you see a horse on the roads.

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audioKevField21403142102: So one of

the questions my, my learners had

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was, and I thought I knew the answer,

but I knew I was going to do this.

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Was why do horses use the road?

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audioalan.hiscox11403142102:

Well, no, that's, that is

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a very, very good question.

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One that we, often have to explain,

, because, as I mentioned, the access team

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with the bridleways, there's just not

enough safe off road access out there.

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So, horses and riders and carriages will

be going from one bridleway to another

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bridleway, or a stable to a bridleway,

or There just might not be any off road

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access that they can use around the area

they live, so they have to go on the road.

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And believe you me, the horse

doesn't want to be there, the

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rider doesn't want to be there.

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It'd be so much better, you know, if we

were off the road on a by the way, you

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know, riding through a forest or a field.

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So yeah, when you see a horse on

the , you know, please don't think,

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oh, it's there to slow us down.

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It's there because We are trying to

find safe off road access, , or because

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there's no off road access anywhere there.

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So, um, yeah, it's a, it's a, it's

a, it's an interesting question and

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you're right, one that people say,

well, why are you on the roads?

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Yeah.

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audioKevField21403142102: And

it's just their perspective

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was, well, there's fields.

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Surely they can,

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audioalan.hiscox11403142102: Yeah,

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audioKevField21403142102: trying

to get you go into a difference

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that's not owned by the horse and

then maybe not allowed to go there.

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So to get from point A to

point B, they have to use.

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the roads as such.

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audioalan.hiscox11403142102: And there

are many, many landowners who allow horses

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onto their lands, you know, in sort of

permissive by the ways, which is great.

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But again, there still

is not enough of that.

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And then we've got, the broader ways that

are defined on maps that we can use and

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areas that horses can get off the roads.

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And yeah, there's nothing better.

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Than being out in the open where

there are no cars and no roads, but

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unfortunately, an awful lot of our, our

work and exercise has to be on the roads.

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audioKevField21403142102: I

seem to be talking a lot here.

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I'm looking at Tracy as I say that.

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Because I've got loads of questions.

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Obviously, I deal with, where we live,

we're fairly close to the country.

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And we, I won't say we see

them often, horses on the road,

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but we do come across them.

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, but if you're living in somewhere like

London, people that then move out to

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the country, I was shocked to see horses

on the road and they think, well, I

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thought that was only part of the theory

test that has a perception and they

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and they were going, what happens now?

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How do I deal with this?

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So the question I'm going to put it

to you is what would you like to see?

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Drivers do when they

meet a horse on the road.

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audioalan.hiscox11403142102: Okay,

well, it's actually, there's four

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simple messages that we try and,

uh, ask drivers to, to adhere to.

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And in fact, they're in the

highway code now, which is great.

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You know, we were part of the highway code

review, um, over two years ago, and we

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asked for our message to be put in there.

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So.

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It's, it's, if I see a horse on the

road, and actually, that first sentence

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is quite telling, because not just a

ridden horse, it could be a carriage

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horse, it even could be a horse that is

in Dartmoor or the New Forest or Exmoor.

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So it's, it's, if I see a horse on

the roads, then I will slow down

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to a maximum of 10 miles an hour.

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I will not sound my horn or rev my engine

and when safe to do so, I'll pass the

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horse, wide and slow, at least two meters

distance and then drive slowly away.

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And each of those messages really

are, they're important on their

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own, but together they will

make a safe pass of the horse.

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So yeah, it's it is, I suppose,

quite simple messaging.

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And it is, in fact, a

behavioral change technique.

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, and the reason the way I was, I was there.

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I'm not an academic, by the way,

in case you haven't gathered that.

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I went to a road safety conference,

and a road safety professional came up

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and said, Do you know you've got a, um,

a behavioral change technique there?

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And I said, No, no, I didn't.

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And he said, Well, yes, you have.

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It's the, if I see a horse

on the road, then I will.

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And then the full messages.

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So, , as that was part of the, , what

the Department of Transport wanted

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to get into the Highway Code, they

wanted it to be behavioral change.

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Then our messaging really

sort of fitted in there.

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So.

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Um, yeah, four simple, , phrases,

, that will make up for a slow pass.

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That's a safe pass as well as a slow pass.

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Yeah,

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audioKevField21403142102: Yeah.

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And I think that's so important

because you mentioned earlier about

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a driver having that thought of.

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what do I do?

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But as soon as somebody has

that thought, what do I do?

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That's likely to trigger feelings of

uncertainty and nerves and anxiety.

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So being able to put across a really

clear message helps fill in that gap.

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So if somebody thinks, what do I do?

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Oh, yes, I remember.

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If I see a horse, I will.

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And then those four simple messages.

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And that helps not only tell the

driver what they need to do to have

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that safe pass, but it helps them do

it in a confident way because they've

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got that knowledge behind them.

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So they're doing it

with certainty as well.

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Yeah.

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audioalan.hiscox11403142102: and then

some, you know, every time a driver

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or a learner sees a horse on the road,

they can use it as an opportunity to

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sort of learn and increase their skills.

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So I suppose, um, you know, rather

than, Oh, there's a horse, it's

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an opportunity to bring those four

messages in and completely say, and it

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makes, it makes the horse feel good.

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It makes the rider feel good.

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, and hopefully it makes

the driver feel good.

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And that's another message that we've

got into the highway code is remember

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there's three brains at work here.

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There's the rider, the driver, but

don't forget the horse's brain.

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And, we all want to feel good when

we're, when we're driving, and if it

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makes other people feel good by what

we've done, I think that's, um, that's

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quite, uh, uh, an important thing as well.

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So, yeah, , it's something that we've.

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Not, I wouldn't say accidentally, but,

um, we put a lot of thought into it,

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but to actually know that it was a

behavioral change technique as well,

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really sort of, , put the icing on

the cake, really, for, for us, you

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audioKevField21403142102: I suppose for

you it's knowing that you're doing the

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right things as well there, isn't it?

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If someone else has come up and said,

I like that, this is a behavioral

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change and this is what we, we want to

see, you know, because this is how we

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change the way people act on the road,

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audioalan.hiscox11403142102: I've got

to say, riders have been letting us

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know that since, um, certainly the

highway coaches came, , changes came

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in, , they have noticed, albeit small,

a difference, and, and The other thing I

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think is, is, is really, , important is

a lot of our, our members and our riders

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let, let us know that actually the new

drivers and the younger drivers tend

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to be the ones that are passing them.

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More safely, if you like, , because they

have had that instruction from, from the

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driving instructors and they are aware of

the safety concerns of, , the, the horses.

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So, yes, , it's sort of, , an encouraging,

time, I think, for, for horse riders, but

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we're not taking our, to you, the driving

term, we're not taking our, our, our foot

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off the accelerator in any shape or form.

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We're actually, uh, making a very

steady progress to, um, trying to

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increase that awareness of all drivers.

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audioKevField21403142102: I think

if we can all work together, you

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know, it makes everybody happy.

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And that's what we try and

put across in our teachings.

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But I suppose I always like to look at the

other side of the coin as well, you know.

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, what might be the dangers if we don't

follow those four steps, you know?

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What might be the dangers

that could happen?

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audioalan.hiscox11403142102: Well, horses

are blind animals, you know, they're, um,

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I don't want to sort of anthropomorphise

this too much, but they're, they're

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acting to a risk assessment that's

thousands and thousands of years old.

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So, uh, if they see something

or, sense something that they're

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unsure of, then that sort of flight

instinct will come into their brain.

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Hence the driver, rider, but

don't forget the horse's brain.

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And okay, horses have been

domesticated for, many, many years.

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So they have, in some sense,

has been desensitized.

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to certain things, but you will never,

ever take that flight instinct, that's

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the evolution that will take the flight

instinct away from the horse, you know,

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and having been in the mounted police

for, for many, many years, you know,

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even police horses, the best trained

police horse will react to something.

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It might only be a flick of an ear

or a movement of a muscle because

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they have gone through the training

and be desensitized, but they

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still have that flight instinct.

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So if they're, you know, unsure of

something, they're either going to

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try and remove that risk, maybe by

kicking out, they're going to reduce

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that risk by moving away from it.

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Or they're going to avoid that risk by

turning around and going the other way.

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But, if drivers, , can, you know,

adhere to those four messages, then

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they help the horse accept that risk.

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And then, it may still react,

but only just to a small extent.

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So, if just sort of getting into your,

your mind again, that, you know, their,

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their brain is working, and they've

got, you know, incredible senses,

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so their eyesight You know, having

the eye on either side of the head.

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They've got monocular and binocular sight.

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And they are set up to see anything and

everything that might cause them an issue.

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So, you know, we've got our eyes on

the front of our, our, our heads,

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they, they can see things behind them.

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So, you know, if, if you're approaching

from behind, they, and, and their

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ears, they know that the car's there.

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So that whole, , 10 miles an hour,

two meters distance really does.

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Does make a difference.

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So, yes, a horse could

move suddenly to one side.

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They could turn around

and go the other way.

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It might not be your car

that's caused the issue.

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There might be a bit of flapping

plastic further on in the road.

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And that brings me on to another subject.

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If a, if a horse rider, You know, asks

a driver to stop or slow down is for

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a reason, because they may have seen

something further up ahead that they

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know may cause their horse an issue.

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So, if, and it says in the

highway code, he riders signals.

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You know, if they see something and ask

you to stop, then they, they know that

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there's something that may cause, uh,

may cause an issue or, or, or slow down.

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So it's, as you, as you mentioned, it's

a partnership approach of everybody,

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the driver, the rider, you know, and the

horse wants to play its part as well.

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, so yeah, in the, in the worst, in, uh,

you know, worst case scenario, you know,

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the horse may sort of suddenly move

across, , and block the car or, you know,

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hopefully it doesn't hit it, but, and,

and cars and metal boxes and, and, you

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know, horses are quite fragile creatures,

but that's what we want to avoid by all

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these, , these messages and, and thoughts.

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audioKevField21403142102: I think it's

great, because it's great to know what

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to do, but then the dangers, but also

Us working together and, the rider,

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actually, their position, and obviously

you know this more because you're,

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you're so much higher, you can see over

hedges, you can see further, you can

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see, you know, probably more than us,

sitting in this car, you know, so it's,

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it's, it's nice if we can, notice the

body language of, of the rider, because

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they will tell us information as well.

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And I think that's one of

the skills that we don't do

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enough is, is notice the rider.

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The rider and the horse are working in

tandem, but I think if we can use that,

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it's a big clue for us as to what to do.

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audioalan.hiscox11403142102: Yeah, it

is, and then, you know, safe passes,

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it does, it makes the rider feel good.

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And hopefully you will get an

acknowledgement if they can take

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their hands off the reins or, you

know, a small, and another thing that

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I don't want to sort of stress it's

not just overtaking is if you are

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approaching a horse coming towards you.

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So, you'll be still asked for those those

messages because You know, you approaching

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a horse that's coming towards you, all

those factors can still come into play.

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So it's not just overtaking a horse,

it's if you're approaching a horse, , on

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a rural road, we ask for those slow

down to the 10 miles an hour and try

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and keep that two meters distance.

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Um, because yeah, all right,

the horse has got the car in its

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sight, it's not behind you, but

still, it's still a moving object.

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And And one that could cause the

horse, you know, some, some anxiety,

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especially, especially at higher speeds.

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Yeah, that, that quick moving.

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So that's the thing we see a lot of

is, um, okay, drivers think, yes, I'm

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going to overtake the horse and I'm

going to overtake it really slowly.

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But when you're coming towards the

horse and you're on the other side

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of the road, they still think, Oh,

it's still okay to go past that, you

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know, 40 miles an hour or so, where

in actual fact, if the car was just

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to slow down as well, it would make,

, everything so much, so much better.

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audioKevField21403142102: I think

that's a really important point

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because I can imagine drivers thinking

it's only if you're overtaking.

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So I think making that really

crystal clear is really important.

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But it is because, , if you are

approaching that horse, you're

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on the wrong side of the road.

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I suppose not so many learners, because,

you know, we, we talk about it, but

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I know drivers that will treat it as

a parked car because the horse is so

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slow, they treat it as a parked car and

just don't, adhere to the fact of what

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might happen, and I, you know, they do

just, I see it so many times where we've

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waited back, you know, we can't see, and

all of a sudden this car that's coming

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towards them just doesn't slow down.

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I just, I don't know what is actually

going through the mind of that driver,

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I would love to know, I can guess,

but I would just, I would just love

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to know, I just think it's one of

those intriguing thoughts that I have.

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audioalan.hiscox11403142102:

Yeah, yeah, no, it is, absolutely,

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audioKevField21403142102: I like

the way that you've brought in

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talking about the three brains.

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Working together or four, even if you've

got another car approaching as well,

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because this is one of the conversations

we had this morning before coming on.

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We were talking about taking

up the different positions,

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putting yourself in the shoes of.

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Each of the different positions to

consider what that might feel like.

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So whether that's the horse, whether

it's the rider, whether it's the driver

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coming the other way, instead of only

thinking about you as a driver and how

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it impacts you when you start to take

account of how everybody else is feeling.

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That's when you.

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Out to that bigger picture and you

are much better able to make a more

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balanced decision on what you're gonna

do when you are factoring everybody in.

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So that's exactly what

we were gonna talk about.

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And you've

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audioalan.hiscox11403142102: Well, if

you want to get a horse rider's point

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of view, if you go to our website, sphs.

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org.

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uk, Go the dead slow page and then you,

there is a film there that we made.

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, it's actually on a virtual reality

headset if, and that's used by

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road safety partnerships, but you

can, um, use it on your tablet.

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, it's from the point of view of a rider

when a car goes past too fast or too close

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and you can move around the 360, , film

and in fact the horse then rears up so

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you can see exactly what it's like to

be, on a horse when, when that happens.

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So, yeah.

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We're not going to say to people,

well, we're going to put you on a

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horse and then we're going to show you

what it's like because, , that's not

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quite , what we're after there, but

it's as close as we can get to for a

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non rider to, to be on a, on a horse.

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And yeah, , it's challenging, you

know, even for experienced riders.

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Um, and actually the highway

code uses the term intimidation.

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You know, um, it can be intimidating

passing cyclists, pedestrians, horse

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riders at inappropriate speeds.

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And we all know, just as walking

along a road, when cars whiz past

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you, and on bicycles, imagine what

that's like if you're actually

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sitting on a horse as well.

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:

So, and we know that, you know, drivers

don't want to be intimidating, but just

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the very fact that they are passing,

A little bit too fast or too close

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is, is intimidating and I can tell

you, riding a horse around London,

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I mean, I know you said that people

don't see horses around London, but

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riding a police horse around London,

even though , it was a police horse,

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the speeds and how close people got.

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You know, it even had stirrups clipped

with vehicles going, going too close.

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:

So, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's challenging

and it's a, it's a very strong word,

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intimidation, I know, but, it can,

um, raise the hairs on the back of

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your neck, shall we say, a little bit

when, , vehicles pass, , inappropriately.

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audioKevField21403142102: is, is

scary and I've, I've seen it, a horse

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kick out and actually kicked a car,

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audioalan.hiscox11403142102: Yeah.

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audioKevField21403142102: it damage.

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audioalan.hiscox11403142102: Oh, yes.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, and that, that's

why, you know, we asked for that two

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audioKevField21403142102: Yeah,

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audioalan.hiscox11403142102: Um, and

the other thing is, if you're on a rural

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road, and maybe it's, you know, single

or one and a half, , sort of lanes, Uh,

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what we're asking, and it says in the

Highway Code as well, just hold back until

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:

you can meet those, those clearances,

and what, and this is the other thing,

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:

there's responsibilities on, you know, no

pun intended, it's a two way street, so

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we're saying to horse riders, you know,

there's certain areas of the Highway Code,

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and there's certain responsibilities that

we have when we're on the roads, as all

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road users have responsibilities, So,

um, you know, we're asking horse riders

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to be aware, you know, look behind,

see where everything was going on.

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And if you're, you know , there's a car

behind, then perhaps, you know, if there's

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:

a gateway you can pull in to allow the

car to go, or, you know, if you're feeling

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:

confident, just crotch on to the next

area where the car driver , can pass.

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:

So, yeah, there's ways that, , we can

help drivers in the same way that we're

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asking drivers to help us as well.

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audioKevField21403142102: I don't

think that's really important.

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:

I suppose it goes back to that.

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:

We're working together, aren't we?

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:

And if we all work together,

you know, everybody's happy.

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:

Um, and that is part of what we,

we do on the roads, isn't it?

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You know, we, we are.

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audioalan.hiscox11403142102: It's that

whole thing about, you know, mutual

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:

respect, and if you haven't got that

mutual respect, that's when you've

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got trouble, , on whichever side it

is, you know, riders respecting, , car

374

:

drivers, cyclists respecting horse

riders, car drivers respecting cyclists

375

:

and horse riders, so yeah, that

whole thing, , and, you know, as

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the FT say, everybody respecting.

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:

Has a right to feel safe on

the roads, and that's what

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:

we're all, we're all aiming at.

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audioKevField21403142102: Brilliant.

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:

And it's been a real insight as well

to someone that's a horse rider,

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:

because we're coming from a driving

instructor, you know, we're more sort

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:

of like, okay, what would you do?

383

:

How would you deal with this?

384

:

Because we want to get them into

their mind and start thinking about

385

:

where you might find these, these

situations, what might happen.

386

:

But coming from a horse rider

like yourself, and you know,

387

:

what you do as a profession, too.

388

:

I think just highlights the

importance of, , what everybody

389

:

is trying to do on the roads.

390

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And I think that's the really

important message, isn't it?

391

:

You know, your message,

what might happen?

392

:

What will you see?

393

:

What will you do?

394

:

Yeah.

395

:

And it's, it's, it's just, Well,

hopefully it's helped people to just

396

:

think a little bit more about what

happens next time I meet that situation.

397

:

Yeah, I couldn't think of

my words for a minute then.

398

:

I just lost my track, , But yeah, I think

, it's an important message that we don't

399

:

normally, , get out to people, you know.

400

:

Just, it's another person, road user, on

the road, and we need to respect that,

401

:

like we would if it was a cyclist, as

if it was a vulnerable road user, you

402

:

know, again, just, just start thinking.

403

:

And put yourself in those shoes,

put yourself in the different

404

:

positions, , just to get a

feel for what it might be like.

405

:

So, Alan, where can people

find those resources?

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:

audioalan.hiscox11403142102: Okay.

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:

Yeah.

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:

If you go onto, our website, so it's, uh,

bhs.org uk, and actually on , the landing

409

:

page, , you'll, if you just scroll down

just a, a little bit, you'll see the Dead

410

:

slow campaign message, and then you can

go straight through to our, our pages,

411

:

uh, for the safety pages, and then you

can go on to all, , there's some films

412

:

there, there's some messages from riders.

413

:

Uh, there's the, uh,

Virtual Reality 360 film.

414

:

There's the Look Out for Laura film,

which shows, a nurse who works during

415

:

the day in , a children's department,

and then , she rides, for sort of

416

:

relaxation, and there's a firefighter

as well, shows what, um, Julie does

417

:

during the day, and then she relaxes

by, by riding a horse on the road.

418

:

So we're trying to humanize

the horse rider as well,

419

:

because that's the other thing.

420

:

You're, you're driving along, yeah, that,

that horse rider could be a nurse, could

421

:

be a doctor, could be a firefighter.

422

:

And so, yeah, there's, again,

we're coming back to this, the

423

:

respect, isn't it, , for everybody.

424

:

, so there's, there's lots and

lots of things on our website.

425

:

And as you know, we, we'd be

very happy to come along to

426

:

any sort of driving instructor.

427

:

Events and, um, and talk to driving

instructors because, you know,

428

:

you, you are very important in the

whole process of getting people

429

:

to, to drive safely on the road.

430

:

So, yeah, anything that, um,

that we can do to help, uh,

431

:

we'd be delighted to do that.

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:

audioKevField21403142102: Fantastic.

433

:

Is there anything else that

you would like to cover today?

434

:

audioalan.hiscox11403142102: Um, just

reemphasizing , those four messages, you

435

:

know, the, if I see a horse on the road,

then I will slow down to that maximum

436

:

10 miles an hour, I will be patient, I

won't sound my horn or rev my engine,

437

:

and when safe to do so, I'll pass slow

and wide, at least two meters distance,

438

:

and then drive slowly away, and I, I

think, you know, they call me a one trick

439

:

pony, and I call myself a one trick pony

because, you know, That really is the

440

:

whole, the whole messaging and what we've

talked about this morning as well is all

441

:

around the edges that adds context to

why we're asking those those messages.

442

:

So no, thank you very much for the

opportunity and great to see you again.

443

:

And I look forward to meeting you again

at another driving instructor conference.

444

:

So yeah, thanks for the opportunity.

445

:

audioKevField21403142102: Fantastic.

446

:

Thank you so much for joining us.

447

:

I really hope that people have found

that helpful and informative and now

448

:

have a little bit of extra knowledge

maybe to feel less nervous next

449

:

time they meet a horse on the road.

450

:

So we have one final question

that we always ask people.

451

:

Alan thought he was done.

452

:

Alan's face has now just changed.

453

:

So, thinking back to when you

was learning to drive, Alan, what

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:

did you find most challenging?

455

:

audioalan.hiscox11403142102:

That's a very, very good question.

456

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I was in the police action.

457

:

I got, I got taught by a police officer.

458

:

instructor, because, that's, that's the

way it was, you, you joined as 18 years

459

:

old, and you, um, they, they taught you

to drive, and the thing that I found most

460

:

challenging was clutch control, believe

it or not, , yeah, I can't even remember

461

:

if there were automatic cars back in those

days, I don't know, but, yeah, the clutch,

462

:

the clutch control, but once, I'd mastered

the clutch control, so everything else

463

:

sort of, I didn't have to worry about,

you know, if you're going to judder once

464

:

you actually started moving smoothly.

465

:

So, yeah, I suppose clutch control.

466

:

audioKevField21403142102: Brilliant.

467

:

Perfect.

468

:

Lovely.

469

:

And so, what piece of

advice would you give to our

470

:

listeners, any of our listeners

471

:

audioalan.hiscox11403142102:

who are struggling with

472

:

clutch control at the moment?

473

:

Love

474

:

Crikey, um, I suppose it's, it's not,

it's not to sort of panic and think

475

:

too much in to it and just relax

and get that, get that, that feel.

476

:

I can remember just Being able

to almost feel when the clutch

477

:

was starting to, um, to engage.

478

:

So, and as soon as I sort of

took that whole, Oh God, the

479

:

car's going to jump or not.

480

:

It just, and then it just, it

just falls into place, I suppose.

481

:

Relax and, um, just treat it

as a, as another part of the

482

:

whole driving experience really.

483

:

And, um, gosh, yes.

484

:

I don't know.

485

:

I really put me on the spot.

486

:

Yeah.

487

:

I don't know.

488

:

It took me a little while.

489

:

I've got to say, you know, and

being in a, in a police car that

490

:

started going, do, do, do, do, do,

it put even more pressure on me.

491

:

But, um, yeah, I suppose

practice makes perfect.

492

:

There you go.

493

:

We'll go for that one.

494

:

audioKevField21403142102: Oh, thank

you so much for sharing that because

495

:

we do like to ask our guests because

that's really helpful for listeners

496

:

who are struggling with things.

497

:

The more that we can share that

actually we've all struggled with

498

:

different things, even if we don't now,

that it just, it just normalizes it.

499

:

So, um, yeah, brilliant.

500

:

Thank you.

501

:

audioalan.hiscox11403142102:

Practice makes perfect.

502

:

Perfect practice makes perfect.

503

:

There, that's it, I think.

504

:

audioKevField21403142102:

Well, there we go.

505

:

We've got that.

506

:

Love it.

507

:

Well, Alan, thank you so much for

joining us today and giving up your time.

508

:

Um, it's been brilliant.

509

:

Yeah.

510

:

Thank you very

511

:

audioalan.hiscox11403142102: okay.

512

:

All the best.

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