Dana Sacco grew up in a small community with big dreams. Despite the diverse range of options available to her and her classmates, Dana was told to "sit down, little girl" by her college computer science teacher when she tried to explain what she'd already done in her business.

"You don't have to follow the traditional path to get ahead." Dana Sacco

This experience of sexism and discrimination has stayed with Dana and she strives to ensure that nobody else has to feel that way. She now stands up to anyone who questions her credentials and refuses to accept any form of discrimination.

In this episode, you will learn the following:

1. How did Dana Sacco and her husband build and run a successful computer store in the early 2000s?

2. How did the technological and digital landscape of the 1980s and early 1990s affect her childhood and education?

3. What experiences did Dana have with gender inequality in her computer science classes, and how has she used her knowledge to empower other women in business?

Dana Sacco is a business automation expert who helps businesses to customise and automate their client journey with their CRM. She grew up in the Washington, DC area and has a passion for learning and technology.

Connect with Dana here:

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/danaasacco
• https://danasacco.co/

Resources

• Get your FREE Video Training: The 5 Step Proven Profit Formula To Double Your Business

About Your Host:

Úna Doyle is the founder of CreativeFlow.tv - a speaker, business strategist and impact coach. Business owners hire Úna to help them to build a business they could sell tomorrow, but don't want to because it's highly profitable, fun-to-run and they get to make a bigger impact on the world.

In every episode, Úna and her guests share strategies, stories and wisdom to help you achieve your goals too.

Who do you know that could be a great guest on this podcast?

Apply now

If you'd like to discuss your business, goals and challenges, then Book your FREE Breakthrough call With Úna

Mentioned in this episode:

She Leads Business Season 2 - Outro

Book your FREE Breakthrough call With Úna

She Leads Business Season 2 - Introduction

(Machine transcript)

Hello. Hello, and welcome back to she Leads Business. And today I am so happy to have with me Dana Sacco. Dana helps businesses to automate and customize their client journey with their crm. And that's a client relationship management system for those. And to do that so they're not tied to the computer all day and can actually have a life. I think we can all relate with that. Welcome. Daniel know.

Thank you so much for having me.

Oh, you're welcome. Dana. I love to get to know the person behind the business. So tell me, where did life start for you and what was it like growing up?

So thank you so much. I actually grew up in the Washington, DC. Area, in the suburbs, and I absolutely love technology. I grew up in the time we were in the 80s where everything was coming about. And in the early 1990s, my now husband and I actually owned a computer store until the early 2000s, where it was a physical computer store, where we were building new and used computers. So we took that and also worked online and had an online store at that time.

Were we part of a family, a small family?

No, there were just four of us. It was myself, my mother, and my father. I grew up on five acres, so in order to get to people, we actually had to walk to get to our friend's house. I didn't live in, like, a really close community, and so we learned to do things for ourselves. I did go to a very large high school, lake braddock Secondary School, which was 7th through 12th grade. So a lot of the people that I grew up with, we knew each other from kindergarten through even now, thanks to social media. So it's a lot of fun growing up in a small community, but a large one as well, where my graduating class was over 750 kids. So it was really kind of really fun. Very diverse.

You can't imagine having that number of people in your year. My high school, we had that number of people in the whole school, maybe even less.

Actually, my husband's entire school was like 150 people. Yeah. And that was only an hour and a half away from where we lived. So it was such a difference. It made it very interesting.

Absolutely. And what did you like most about.

I love to learn? You hand me anything. I've always loved to learn. And being able to take any type of classes because of the structure, our school was even in 8th grade, we had the option to look at some of the larger high school type classes. We were able to look at those. We were able to start those if we wanted to because it was so integrated with everything. So if we wanted to learn something, we absolutely could. And we were very open. We had open classrooms. It was just a lot of fun. I mean, it was completely different than what I've seen other kids go through now.

In what way?

I think that we had so many different choices and we weren't told no, we weren't told you couldn't do anything. And I think that that was such a great time where we were just given so many options in front of us and said, you can pick. So it gave us and then we were able to do it by ourselves. We weren't we could be given something and we were told, okay, go ahead and try it. And we were a generation and a group of people that actually would just go out there and just say, what the heck, let's go for it.

Fantastic. Do you think nowadays choices aren't there for school children?

I don't see them as much. I think that we pushed them to do certain things. And I thought, I have five children and they range in ages 16 on up to almost 30. And it was almost as if people put them on a path and they didn't start to question things until very recently. They were just kind of going through the motions where we would ask a lot of questions and we would just pick up what we wanted to learn. We would pick up books and we would pick up things to learn and we would do it by ourselves. Whereas some of the children, they've been put on a path and it's mainly you have to learn this, this and this to get to the next step. And I think recently it's changed where people where kids can actually say, well, I'm not interested in that. I'm not interested to go to that. Sort of I'm working on this with my high schooler. It probably won't be your traditional go to college, get a job. It's not as much of a focus. And I think that that's actually a really good thing that it's not required to get ahead.

I couldn't agree more. Particularly in America, cost to university and getting a degree is just so huge. People put themselves into so debt when it's not necessary so much of the time that they don't even use the degrees. And they could maybe learn in different ways or follow different career paths and there's so many different types of intelligences. Not everybody is suited to the academic English, math sciences kind of pathway, are they?

No, they're not. And on top of that, you speak about debt and then they come out into the world and you're looking at jobs that aren't even paying for a semester. That's what they're offering for beginner salary. And they're asking that. And they also want you to have all this experience as well as that pretty piece of paper. And the teachers don't mesh. You can't have both. And I know quite a few people who worked through college who didn't get the experience because they made more money delivering pizzas than they would have as an unpaid intern right. To get the so called experience, which doesn't guarantee you anything at the end of the day. So it really is it's kind of the traditional catch 22. It's definitely okay for some people, and it definitely does help some people, certain professions. I definitely want them to go, please get a degree. I want you to know, if you're a doctor, feed them to it. I don't want you on Google. But a lot of people, you know, they'll go into the business aspect of it, and there's so much information out there that's not university that's not costing you 40 grand a year.

Exactly, yes. What's one of your fondest memories from being a child, Una?

The freedom. We had so much freedom. It was, okay, get up in the morning, and it wasn't even calling our friends to see, hey, do you want to meet up where I lived? We literally walked through the back, through the woods to go get to each other's house, and that's all we would do. And then everyone in my neighborhood knew my mother's cow bell, and my mother would ring the cow bell, and we would all come home from anywhere in the neighborhood. We would all just go home at that time because everyone's mothers knew my mother was ringing the cow bell, Doyle was ringing the cow bell, and, okay, it's time to go home. Yeah. It was absolutely great, and I really think I wished that that would be brought back that sort of a freedom, because we didn't have the fear of walking a mile to someone's house.

Right.

We didn't have that fear. We didn't have to check in every five minutes to make sure we didn't have air tags tracking.

Right. Yeah, exactly. What would you say was your biggest challenge? Probably.

I think, in the same respect, our school was very, in its own way, competitive. When you have 700 and something, kids that are all fighting for the same end goal, we were all told to go off to college. I did not. Well, I did. I did leave after a year, but it was was very competitive to say that you got into a school, you got into a specific university. It was just a name thing that you got into status. To say that you got in someplace, it didn't really make a difference.

So how did you deal with us?

I got into a university. I ended up accepting Virginia Tech. And probably, looking back, it probably was not the best choice for me, as it was another large educational space. I probably would have stayed in school if I had gone to a smaller school. But the smaller school didn't have the status that the larger school did. Right. Yeah. We didn't have the football team. They didn't have the everyone wearing their sweatshirts and the school rivalries, they didn't have that at that smaller school. And I should have gone.

So what prompted you to leave after a year?

Technically my grade, I actually came back and went to a community college. My grades weren't great because it was so overwhelming for me. Even after going into a large school, it was very overwhelming for me to be in a class with 100 to 200 students because we were in an auditorium in a movie theater to take classes. So that was very different. And I didn't do well in that sort of an environment. So when I came back home, I ended up going to a community college. And I went there for about almost two years complete. And I did very well. They were small classes. I could work, I could go do my thing, and I could go to class and set my schedule and go have fun where I wanted to.

Well, that sounds a lot better. Yes. Even as an extroverted person, the thought having all the classes like that, in a weird way, it actually feels very isolating.

In a way, it was because you didn't talk to the people next to you and you didn't interact with the teacher. I remember one class I went to, I think it was a biology class. It was not the lab, of course, but it was the and we were in this auditorium, movie theater, and I'm 5ft tall, so if I'm sitting in a movie seat, I'm actually trying to go down to the front because I can't see over people's heads. And that's what it was. I could not even see, I don't think, for the entire semester. I saw my teacher. I could hear him and I could see the slides or the projection up on the screen, but I never saw the actual professor.

I can't imagine that because I'd probably be looking more at the teacher and then glancing at slides because it's connection and engagement.

Right. And so I felt very disconnected with the whole process. I felt like I was failing. I was the AB student. The C would make me angry. And so going into that sort of situation where I could not excel at what I loved doing, which was I love learning more than anything. I still love it. All the books behind me and everything else, I've read them all. So that's just those things that if you don't have that connection and then you feel like you're failing, then it's an awful situation. Yeah.

It's an interesting journey to take, to go from being an A student to a C student because of your environment. So for you, nothing else had changed. Like, you had the same intelligence. It sounds like you have the same willingness, learning, attitude. Yes. Your environment made the difference.

And I think that very different environment.

Yeah. That's something that we can all look in terms of the environment we create for ourselves.

Oh, absolutely. And I think that it also now has to do with who are you surrounding yourself with? And who are you looking at? Who do you admire? And are you willing to put yourself kind of out there? And you said, as an extrovert, I'm kind of a mix. I'm very comfortable with myself being introverted and sitting there and reading books for days on end. But at the same time, I love to have people around me, but they need to be a certain level. It's not necessarily level, but they have to have that energy around you. And I think that as a business owner, surrounding yourself with not only successful people, but people that have an energy that helps you grow is just an amazing feeling. And thank goodness the Internet has brought that.

For sure. It has its pros and cons. Definitely, yes. I think being able to tap into communities of, like, people, it's just such wonderful thing.

It is. It's great because we're meeting people across the world. You and I never would have met, we never would have talked back in a time where we didn't have this technology. And it's just fascinating. And it's absolutely amazing to me that we can make these connections and we can grow from these because I learned so much from you, and I never would have known about you if we didn't have this technology out here.

Definitely. So you went to community college then. And by the way, what were you studying? dada?

Computer science.

Okay, right. That makes sense. And so how did you get from there to when you had the storefront, your husband?

So it was around the same time, and my husband and I had actually started dating when I was in high school, the end of my senior year in high school. And he had gone off to do his thing, and he had to go get his training done. He was an air traffic controller, and I was in the computer science class, and I was going there. I started working with my husband, had a partnership with a friend of ours with this computer store. And it was very small. We were literally in a hole in the wall, think an office type set up where we were still selling new and used computers. And I would go work there part time and go to school part time. And my computer science teacher told me to, sit down, little girl, because you do not know what you are talking about.

Excuse me.

And this is the time and day that I was in computers. I was one of two women in the class, and I was told multiple times I didn't know what I was talking about. And I would explain in detail how he was wrong because I had just built the computer the day before, and he was telling me you couldn't do something. And I'm like, I did that yesterday, thank you. And he's like, no, you really can't. And I was like, yes, you can. And he told me to sit down, little girl. So I got up out of that class and I walked out and I did not go back. It didn't help me. It was the attitude. I knew I wouldn't pass the class anyway because the teacher was never going to give me a passing grade because the papers I was writing were, according to his logic, wrong. So it was very different than what we see now.

Well, thank God for that.

Yes.

So was that at the university or the community?

At the community college.

Oh, wow. Okay. So how did that affect what you were doing? Presumably you were studying that class for a reason.

Well, I wanted a degree because that's what we were taught, and so I decided I was not going to go anymore.

Oh, so actually that was so you left the college in television?

Because I was not going to. He was the only computer science teacher.

Oh, God. Right.

When you have a community college, there are limitations. Back in 91, and I was not going to subject myself to that anymore. I was in tears. And around the same time, my husband bought the computer store from his partner, and I went there full time while he was working. And my husband and I, my now husband, we got engaged and we built that store up. At the time, I don't remember the exact numbers, but it was over a million dollar business. So we built it up and we eventually sold it.

Well, I guess that shows the teacher.

There are some people in this world I would really like to go back and just say hi, especially 30 years later. I would really like to just go back and explain and also share that. Guess what? I kind of did okay with you telling me because I still remember it. I know the feeling. I remember the feeling. And that feeling hung with me a very long time.

It can sense us.

It's anger. It's anger with that sort of thing because I never want anyone else to feel that way. And it's one of the things that I try to strive for in my business, is empowering women to say, you can do this, you have the capabilities to do this, versus accepting things that you do not want to do for less money than you actually deserve just because it's a paycheck.

I'm just thinking of the bank statement with over a million dollars bank account and just kind of sending him a screenshot.

Have a nice day. There's a couple of people that I would do it with. There's a lot of stories I have along those lines. Back in those days, it was very different, and I don't think everyone realizes how different it was and what a fight it was to be recognized as someone that knew what they were talking about because you were female.

Well, unfortunately, I can tell you that from the conversations that I'm having. It's still happening today. It is not to as much of an extent. Yes, it is still happening and I think it's important to talk about it because then you listening can kind of go, yeah, this isn't okay. If I do see this happening, I can talk about this, I can share about this, I can hopefully speak back to them as long as I danger. And that's one of the reasons why this podcast exists, to have these conversations, to be talking the women who are leading businesses and showing what's possible despite the challenges that we had.

Yes, and it does exist today. I can even go back as far as last week where I guarantee you that if it was a man that was running the same business that I do, I don't think that their credentials would have been questioned. And mine were being questioned like three emails in and I finally said, sir, this is not going to work because I'm not going to sit here and justify all of my reasoning based on my credentials for every decision I help make with your business. So I think that as women, we need to step up and we need to be able to say no. And that good grades was all because they have a pulse doesn't mean that they're a good client.

Definitely.

That was kind of thrown at me at one point and I was like, yeah, I guess that's true, wasn't it? I mean, it's definitely happening today.

So was this actually planned or were they a prospect that you were in the process of them becoming planned? What was going on.

Months ago? I actually sent them the original proposal and I never heard back. And then they said, okay, we're ready to go with you and that we're ready to take this next step. And my next availability was to start December 1. And they said, I just need this contract signed, select it and go from there, and then we can go ahead and get started. So they go ahead and they start the process with selecting the service, which is there's only one choice and go to sign the contract and they stop the process. They didn't say anything, so of course my automation sends them, did you have any questions? And they started questioning my credentials of could you handle a seven figure business? And the first thing that popped into my head, I did type it and I actually deleted it was, sir, I am a seven figure business. I think I can handle one. I sent him a thing that said, you know, I just do not think that this is going to work. We've had an hour and a half long meeting. I've sent you the exact process we're going to go through for the next three months because they wanted a trial period, which I do not do, for the type of service he was asking for. And I said, I cannot have my credentials questioned three times in a week over this. I said, It's not worth it to me. I said, So we're just not a good fit.

Did you get a response?

No. Go and continue searching for someone else that they don't have to question everything.

I think sometimes people like that. They will find somebody who will keep justifying and they can. dangle this is the thing that I want you to understand, is that if you're listening, bullies don't like being so when you have boundaries, you do step up. When you do speak back, when you do question what they're doing and call attention to it. They don't like it. Now, occasionally there will be people who are like, oh, my gosh, I apologize. You're right, because there is unconscious bias for sure, whether that's to do with gender or race, whatever it might be. If that doesn't happen, yeah, they'll move on to the next because they want to be the one who's better then, because they actually don't feel I'm not excusing their behavior. But that's also what's going on underneath, isn't it?

It is. And it's funny, because even a few years ago, even probably last year, I would have justified myself because it would have been a nice paycheck. And sometimes we look at that dollar sign, but I was able to take a step back and say, I don't have to justify myself and what I do and what I have done. I do not have to prove myself day after day when we make decisions, especially when I was only going to be working with their company because they didn't want to pay anymore for an hour and a half a day maximum. And that type of stress just isn't needed. It's not needed.