This week we talk about the divestment of the first Catholic school to Educate Together, followed by the findings of the Grace report, indicating a discrepancy between the religious beliefs of teachers and their roles in Catholic schools. While one commentator blames the teachers, another blames the whole Catholic community.

Next, I discuss the Polish government’s ban on homework for primary students, questioning the relevance and format of homework in Ireland’s education system. I haven’t changed my stance since I recorded my podcast on the topic several years ago!

https://anseo.captivate.fm/episode/episode-39-scrap-homework

Lastly, I confess to warming to Minister Norma Foley’s stance against smartphones in schools, advocating for a broader approach that includes legislation to protect children from harmful content. While I don’t believe it’s the school’s role to lead on it, I’m very nervous of what the future generation is going to look like if we all don’t do something.

• 01:06 The Good Grace Report: A Deep Dive into Religious Control and Education
• 05:37 The Shocking Reality: Teachers' Beliefs vs. Catholic School Ethos
• 18:27 Rethinking Homework: Lessons from Poland's Bold Move
• 24:44 Smartphone Ban Debate: A Necessary Measure for Child Safety?
• 30:20 Wrapping Up: Reflecting on Education, Religion, and Technology

MacBook Pro Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera-6:

Hello?

2

Hello.

3

You're very welcome to if I were the

minister for education, a regular

4

podcast, where I go into the world

of primary education in Ireland.

5

And let's, what I would do

if I were the minister for

6

education, this is Simon Lewis.

7

On today's show good grace, the

future of primary education in

8

Ireland, Poland band's homework.

9

So should we, and why I'm warming

to Norma Foley's smartphone ban.

10

If you are interested in subscribing to

the podcast, you can go to any of your

11

podcasting apps and subscribe to if I

were the minister for education, you can

12

also find out more from on shot dot Nash.

13

Where you can tune in to add the

puncture podcast notes and you can

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subscribe to at the new stature that

I sent out every two weeks with more

15

views and news, and also some ICT tips.

16

I also share, and I also share some

extra bits and pieces on my Feedly

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kind of Irish education news, which

you can search for as well on Feedly.

18

Where I scour the internet for stories

about the education system in Ireland.

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So let's get on with it today on go to

our first story, which is the, which

20

is called good grace and give you a

little bit of a background before we

21

get on with things which started off.

22

The last, a few weeks in primary

school education have been quite

23

interesting if you're interested in

patronage and religious control of

24

schools, because for the very first

time, After 13 years after it's it's

25

launched the patronage imperialism.

26

System.

27

Or project.

28

Garnered its first educate together school

to be divested from a Catholic school.

29

This would seem amazing to most people

who think, there's a huge number of people

30

in Ireland that believe that there's

loads of educated kids cause, and they're

31

growing and the Catholic church are

handing over schools to educate together.

32

I bet, but actually the very,

very first open Catholic school.

33

So not a disused Catholic school was

handed over by the Catholic church to

34

educate together for the very first

35

After the patrons and pluralism forum.

36

It was launched.

37

Many of you would say, ah, yeah,

but Lots of schools have opened.

38

The real truth is.

39

Fewer than 20 schools have transferred

over from the Catholic church to

40

multi-denominational providers.

41

Most of the 20 schools that

have Transferred over were

42

schools that were closing.

43

They might've had six

students or eight students.

44

At most.

45

Most commonly so some of you might be

living in county, Kerry by temperature.

46

We've had four schools.

47

A hundred owed from the Catholic

church in the last five or six years.

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Yes.

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And all four of those indeed

were handed over by the Bishop

50

to the community national school.

51

But all of those NGOs are

very small schools that we're

52

probably going to close.

53

And don't exactly.

54

Aren't exactly what you would

call the, the intentions that

55

divestment was, which was two.

56

Ah, divest.

57

I suppose mainly in urban

areas at big schools or as.

58

As in, from Catholic patronage over to

educate together or to this community

59

national school and the community kind

of national school pretty much has had

60

the monopoly on being paid back divested

to, there was one girl Scott as well.

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Got divest to and Tala, but really this

is a functioning Catholic school that

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has moved over to educate together.

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And I say this as the backdrop.

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Really in a way, because, um, there's

a lot of perceptions out there about

65

multi-denominational education in Ireland.

66

Insofar as that people think there's a

lot more of it than there actually is.

67

And I think they may think that I suppose

maybe because these small bodies have

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loud voices, there's been a lot of public.

69

I suppose a lot of public pressure.

70

To, lessen the amount of influence the

Catholic church and other religious

71

bodies have on the patronage system.

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96% of primary schools still are under

a religious control nine about 89.7%.

73

Now.

74

To the Catholic church and.

75

I guess there's a, there's been a lot of,

it has been a huge appetite as Ireland.

76

As Ireland, as a society

becomes less religious.

77

The last census, 2022, only

69% of the entire country

78

even identifies as Catholic.

79

And we asked we have 90% of the schools.

80

And if you even go bed down at the

figures a little bit more, if you're

81

aged, I think it was at age 25 to 29

in the last census, which is basically.

82

The age people, these people

will be becoming parents.

83

Now only 53% of them identify as Catholic.

84

So we're coming into this

kind of weird misnomer.

85

Have a system where, you know,

a lot of half of the people.

86

In the schools no longer identify as the

religion of those schools were not the

87

country that my mother and on many liker.

88

I remember my mom saying

to me when I was young.

89

That Arden's is a country of

95% Catholics, 5% Protestants.

90

And the rest of us are Jewish Ash.

91

That was hurtful.

92

One of her wonderful little jokes.

93

And I wish that she, it

was it's changed now.

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The, this country has changed immensely.

95

We have the fastest growing belief system.

96

If we can call it that is

atheism or no religion.

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And Our schools are very happy

very slow to adapt to that.

98

And I guess, this is this has

been made even, more pointed.

99

By study.

100

That just came out last week,

called the grace report.

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Now the grace report has always be, is a.

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Is from Mary immaculate college, a very F.

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I know it's a very Catholic

university in Limerick.

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It's the teacher training college at

Catholic teacher training college on

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every so often they come out with reports.

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Which are very good.

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And this one is no different.

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They basically surveyed over four

thousands of massive study, 4,000

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teachers in Catholic schools.

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And I remember when this came out,

I was puzzled by why they were only

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serving coffee survey and Catholic.

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Teachers, but I'm very glad they did

because the results of that study.

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The results of that study

were really interesting.

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And there was, there were.

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And I guess you can S if you're watching

on my screen here, if you're tuned

116

in, on YouTube you'll see that, but

if you're not the Irish time gives

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the headline from that great support.

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Basically younger teachers in Catholic

schools are less likely to believe

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in God or attend religious services.

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This study has, caused shockwaves,

despite it not being shocking news.

121

I think if you worked in an Irish

primary school these days, the number

122

of people who would, work in Catholic

schools and say, oh yes, I'm a

123

practicing Catholic and their interview

and all the polls, ethos and so on.

124

But in reality, in the staffroom.

125

Most of the T you know

many of the teachers.

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Absolutely reject a lot

of Catholic teaching.

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There's very few.

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Irish teachers who.

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Don't live in sin in inverted

commas, or would have a problem

130

with someone cohabitation.

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There is a very few Irish, like

most Irish people in society.

132

That would frowned upon someone who

was divorced or going through divorce.

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There's very few.

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Irish primary school teachers, I

would imagine who would be not using

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contraception and things like that.

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And of course,

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Plenty of Irish primary school teachers.

138

Who are gay and you've got plenty of our

school teachers who would believe in.

139

Abortion rights for women.

140

And essentially, I suppose

it came as no surprise.

141

What so ever.

142

To me anyway, at least

that That most that on.

143

At least half of primary

school teachers in Ireland.

144

Do not practice the Catholic faith

and they are teaching children.

145

They're teaching children the

Catholic faith, not as a subject,

146

but they're passing on that

faith to children, their job.

147

And I think people forget this.

148

A lot of people.

149

And I think maybe it is it's.

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This is all part of it too.

151

I think people forget that if you are

a teacher in a Catholic school, your

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main thing, the main thing that you

were supposed to do that's to permeate

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throughout the school day is that you

are supposed to pass on the word of

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God, to those children in your care.

155

And I think a lot of Irish primary school

teachers even reject that and say, oh

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no, we don't do any of that anymore.

157

But the thing is, that's

what you're supposed to do.

158

And in some ways it very much ties in.

159

I know, I think I've had plenty.

160

Of arguments over the years.

161

With teachers who say, put

out the reality on the ground.

162

Sometimes we don't do any of that.

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Try, barely teach religion,

or I barely do this.

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And sheriff.

165

Couldn't a sec that never happens

in the staffroom and so on.

166

And their problem.

167

And I suppose there, and I guess what this

leaves us in a situation is you've got.

168

Expectations from your patron bodies,

that you will be upholding the

169

ethos, which is passing on the word

of God, to the children, praying

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with the children, believing PA

I know this guy, I was sent this.

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A really good video from a friend of

mine by a guy called Robert Nugent.

172

Who's a lovely guy or

very nice, funny enough.

173

It's a weird I, it was

sent to me by someone.

174

And this guy, Robert Nugent, I actually I.

175

I've met him a couple of times.

176

I was really good friends with

his sister in college, and I

177

was actually at the wedding at.

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I at my friend's wedding where I've

left to where I met him last, but

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he's somebody who's really strongly

Catholic and really deep in his faith.

180

And he's really, he.

181

This study.

182

Has really made genuine Catholics

very cross because they believe.

183

You know that if you were to be

a Catholic school, you should

184

be a genuinely Catholic school.

185

I'm not just some sort of a, I

know this term is as, is banded

186

about a bouncy castle Catholic,

because it's very disrespectful.

187

To genuine Catholics the way I suppose.

188

Their religion is being treated, in

some ways, it's abuse, a Bible story.

189

It reminds me, I remember when I was young

though, I went to a Jewish school and we

190

would have been learning about the Bible.

191

There was a story, and I

remember fairly clearly.

192

It was the golden calf in the Bible.

193

So I can't, I like my memory's

a bit hazy, but I think Moses.

194

Is it Moses probably Moses went up to

Mount Sinai to meet God as one does.

195

And when he came down he saw that

the Israelites were worshiping this,

196

they built a golden calf and they

were worshiping this golden calf.

197

And I suppose the analogy of that

story is that they had taken this,

198

relay their religion, and they

had essentially made a false idol.

199

And I think in some ways this is

what's happened with Catholicism

200

in schools such no one is taking

it very seriously anymore.

201

And the golden calf essentially

are the sacraments that people are

202

essentially sending their kids to.

203

Catholic schools, they're outsourcing

their religion and to schools.

204

So they're asking schools to

essentially do do the religious

205

parts of a couple of big parties.

206

They like the idea of the communion.

207

They liked the idea of the

confirmation, but they don't really

208

like the idea of the religion.

209

And it's a very odd thing there.

210

Almost made a culture of it.

211

And in fairness the Catholic church have

turned a blind eye to this for many years.

212

And.

213

Rightly, I think a genuine

Catholics are very angry.

214

At their church leaders for allowing

their faith to be essentially desecrated

215

by people who don't care about us.

216

And they're left in this

sort of situation where they

217

effectively have a school system.

218

That isn't really Catholic,

but it's Catholic only a name.

219

You have essentially a lot of their

missionaries, their teachers, which

220

that's, they're supposed to be

missionaries for the Catholic church.

221

They're missionaries.

222

Our essentially unbelievers.

223

Teaching.

224

I suppose a lot of people who are

unbelievers because again, very less than

225

30% of the population even go to mass.

226

So you've got unbelievers.

227

Teaching unbelievers.

228

To believe.

229

In some way.

230

It just doesn't make sense.

231

And that's my, as this guy,

Robert knew Robert Mnuchin

232

said faith is not subject to.

233

I mean in the last few, the last number

of weeks, I've heard people saying,

234

these people should just get on with it.

235

If you're teaching in a Catholic

school, you get on with it.

236

You teach the religion, even if you

don't believe in it, or you should

237

be able to teach the religion,

even if you don't believe in it.

238

And I thought that line faith

is not a subject was really

239

a really clever sentence.

240

I.

241

I really liked it.

242

And it sums things up to me.

243

And I think the Catholic church

have a lot of thinking to do.

244

I've spoke spoken to a few friends of mine

and a few people online about this who are

245

genuine Catholics, who I call genuine Cox.

246

They believe in their

faith really strongly.

247

And and I really, I enjoy these

conversations because they really

248

th these are intelligent people.

249

If you really think about their faith

at large and live their faith every

250

day, And they're, they're angry.

251

They're really the one

thing they have in common.

252

Most of them anyway is a really

angry at their own church in a way

253

at themselves, in some ways that

they've allowed this to happen.

254

But the main thing they all agree on is

we have way too many Catholic schools.

255

We've lost our way.

256

We need a space for genuine Catholics

to be genuine Catholics and to

257

be unapologetically Catholic.

258

So a lot of the rhetoric right now from.

259

These people here is, I don't know

this guy, but he wrote her a letter

260

in the this is a guy Alexander

O'Hara and the times he was really

261

angry about the about these results.

262

And he actually was blaming

teachers for not passing on

263

the faith and none done that.

264

That does parents will be rightly

disgusted, but parents aren't rightly

265

disgusted thing is they're sending

their children to Catholic schools.

266

Not because they believe in

the Catholic faith that much.

267

And in fact, we the Genesis support for

is, again, an in-house Catholic survey.

268

Only 9% of parents actually send

their children to Catholic primary

269

schools because they're Catholic.

270

And, the, all the other reasons were more

and more important at the NATA only 9%

271

because they were genuinely Catholics.

272

So we have a kind of a situation

which is a gas on surprising.

273

To, to most people.

274

And this it's so unsurprising.

275

He was actually looking at a study

276

the Irish primary principal's network.

277

I won the IPN.

278

We're doing really interesting things,

one of the things was they were talking

279

about right at the road of religion

and education, even back then, this

280

is just after the publication of the

forum of current ism and patronage.

281

And what I found really interesting

from their study on this was at dosh.

282

Most people they stood, they surveyed,

again, thousands of people most believed

283

there needed to be less influence.

284

Our religion and education,

there should be schools should be

285

multi-denominational was the was a result.

286

However, most people believe sacraments.

287

Most parents, this is a study of parents.

288

And so on, those parents wanted that.

289

Should there should be

multi-denominational schools.

290

They said they also wanted to

sacraments to happen in school.

291

So it was a bit of a paradox.

292

Shall we say, and this and in some ways,

That, that, that gives me the message.

293

The parents don't actually,

they, I actually the sacraments

294

and they want to put, they don't

want to put in any of the work.

295

To raise her children

and for those documents.

296

And they have as I said, made a

golden calf of the situation and

297

we'll see this, as we move into into

the month of may, which is, even.

298

I'm saying this now that it's already

in Ireland is known as communion season.

299

And what you'll see there

is parents are stressing.

300

Not over religious things, but

over being able to get a bouncy

301

castle, getting their house ready,

losing weight for the big day.

302

And things like that it's.

303

They've turned, religious very serious

sacraments where you're promising

304

a priest that you are continuing

your journey through Catholicism.

305

They have turned this

into, a secular wedding.

306

In a way that I don't

mean Sackler in a bad way.

307

There is nothing Catholic about the

communion and confirmation anymore.

308

I see that as a very sad thing.

309

For genuine Catholics as someone

with no skin in the game.

310

I've, I have I just feel very

I can understand why they're,

311

why they would be disillusioned.

312

And I wrote an unpublished

letter to the Irish times saying

313

that, this isn't surprising.

314

And I think essentially the Irish

education system, the Catholic

315

education system is really has

been built on a foundation of

316

bouncy castles and helium balloons.

317

Really in the last 20 years,

really just full of hot air.

318

And no substance.

319

And of course I said, then that genuine

Catholics must be very deflated.

320

See, I'm good at these ponds.

321

I'm a real dad joke here.

322

But I think really, . It's

something to reflect on.

323

I think the future of Irish

education, this is really, sent

324

shockwaves though it shouldn't have

it's there in black and white now

325

that teachers under the age of 50.

326

Um, only 41% of them.

327

Even do.

328

Religion.

329

Once a week in their classroom,

that's shocking and wrong.

330

And if you're going to teach in

a Catholic school, I just feel

331

you should, if you should do it.

332

But if you don't believe in

it, how can you, faith is not

333

a subject and Under just 51%.

334

I'd say sorry, 49%.

335

Say they're not committed

to practicing Catholics.

336

Half teachers do not

believe in a personal God.

337

It's pretty bad.

338

I think it was an 18 or 19%.

339

Essentially say that they don't

go to church, except for being

340

a big days or whatever it is.

341

So it's.

342

It's pretty bleak.

343

If you are leading Catholic churches

and that half of your missionaries,

344

don't believe in the message something's

going to have to happen and it's

345

going to have to happen quickly.

346

This may be good news.

347

We're weirding of, for the government.

348

Who are hopelessly and doing nothing about

the whole thing because it's because they.

349

When something is hard, do nothing

was, I think Richard Nixon's mode

350

apparatus, and I think the government's.

351

We're certainly doing that or not.

352

Read Richard Nixon.

353

It was running Ronald

Reagan in the states.

354

And this might push forward

their plan to divest 400 schools.

355

I think the whole divestments

The program is it's just useless.

356

It doesn't work.

357

We need a better system.

358

I'm putting myself out

there to anyone listening.

359

If they are that I have the solution.

360

And I'd love to do it.

361

I think we need we, it starts with a

big thinking with the stakeholders.

362

I would love to run that because I

genuinely think we can get the answer

363

together if we all work together.

364

And we really dig deep

about our commonalities.

365

And I think we can come up with an

education system that works for everybody.

366

Anyway.

367

Speaking of governments at the Polish

government got in the Irish news because

368

they got rid of homework at primary school

level I'm much like Ireland does as dead

369

again, don't nothing really interestingly,

the Polish governments at do have a say

370

in what happens in their education system.

371

Unlike Ireland.

372

Where we have a department of education

who doesn't, who has very little

373

say in what goes on in classrooms,

they have, they provide education.

374

They provide for education.

375

They don't provide education,

the department of education,

376

or they provide for it.

377

So they give money to private bodies.

378

Such as the Catholic church.

379

To provide education and they don't

really have a say on homework and

380

they never ever give a comment

on us, but essentially the, this.

381

The district is a very

long article by Liam Nolan.

382

About Poland, the Polish government.

383

Getting rid of homework.

384

It led to it didn't actually

lead to much discussion.

385

I really thought I'd be on every

radio station talking about this.

386

But I think in some ways, The

topic of homework has been

387

done to death in Ireland.

388

And in some ways there's a

sort of a general agreement

389

amongst most people that.

390

You either wanted.

391

Very much or you don't

want such very much.

392

So it's very polarized.

393

So if the likes of the

journalist Jan Hogan campaigning.

394

From a parent point of view saying she

hates homework and she wants a band.

395

Because she's very busy.

396

And then you've got other parents

who are saying, no, we need homework.

397

Cause we don't know what's

going on in schools.

398

And they could be doing anything in there.

399

Kind of stuff.

400

And we want to know what's going on all

flavors in between radio, I've been going

401

on a journey with homework for many years.

402

I did a podcast about it, maybe I

think five years ago where I concluded.

403

Still where I am at the moment.

404

That I don't see the points of traditional

homework in Irish primary schools.

405

We need to re-imagine homework for

the 21st century and whether we should

406

have number one, whether we should

have it at all, or if we are to have

407

homework, what does it look like?

408

And I've always, I suppose I

came to the conclusion very

409

much from a good study there.

410

A number of years ago about homework.

411

If we were to have homework, you

should have, it should involve choice.

412

It should be personalized.

413

And when I say choice, by the way

the choice to do it or not do it.

414

Choice around the topic of what it

is and make sure it's of interest.

415

If it's a, it can't be just,

it needs to be thoughtful.

416

It needs to be meaningful.

417

And so on.

418

So there's a lot of

questions around homework.

419

That needs to be answered and

we still haven't really had

420

a proper discussion about it.

421

And again, similarly to

religion in schools, I think.

422

When it comes to homework in our

schools, We need to re-examine.

423

Properly what it looks like.

424

We need to talk about it.

425

We need to look at the studies that

are there, bring people together

426

and, decide what does homework look

like in Ireland in the 21st century?

427

Should it be project-based if we

have it, should we have it at all?

428

There's all these, I suppose

there's all these big questions.

429

In potent, if people are interested and

the news of it's essentially being decreed

430

by the Polish government has been mass.

431

On surprisingly.

432

With people being very happy and

people have been very sad about it.

433

David interviewed parents,

they interviewed children.

434

They interviewed teachers.

435

From both sides of the equation.

436

And predictably.

437

As I said, both of both sides.

438

Our representatives but.

439

I would think.

440

Not very much deep thinking about it,

it's the same sort of arguments you'll

441

that you'll hear in RNN from most people.

442

I it's good to practice what you do

in school or it's a waste of time.

443

We should be, children's would

be out playing, they're not very

444

deep thoughts about homework.

445

We have to, we have to really think

more deeply about what the benefit is.

446

And Of one homework.

447

What does homework mean anymore?

448

And, has the word become so poisonous

that we need to change it to something

449

else that accurately reflects what it is?

450

Children essentially assessing themselves.

451

Is there something I need to

practice that I didn't get in school?

452

So the teacher might say, let's

just pick a very simple example.

453

Because I want to go more through

the thought process rather than

454

the actual content of the homework.

455

So your times tables being.

456

Let's pick something controversial.

457

Okay.

458

A teacher let's say, and I'm not

saying this is good or anything

459

like that, but let's say the teacher

is teaching the five times tables.

460

And you're a child in our

class who goes, yeah, got it.

461

And, There's no point in

you being given a sheet of.

462

A hundred, five times tables on

a sheet of paper that you have to

463

fill out because you're not learning

anything new because you've got it.

464

Equally, there's no point in

you going home and practicing

465

them because you've got it.

466

However, if you are a child who's

just struggling a little bit, you've,

467

you just, you've got some of them.

468

You've got the easy ones that say

the easy ones in inverted commas, but

469

there's a few that you don't know.

470

Dan, is it a good idea for

you to practice them at home?

471

And I would suggest it probably is because

it is something you will need to know.

472

In life you will, it is handy to know.

473

Your multiplication facts.

474

And if you haven't got them, it

would make sense to me that you

475

might practice them at home.

476

And you can do that in lots

and lots of different ways.

477

And I'm just saying.

478

These things aren't black and

white, E individual kids needs to.

479

I need to assess where they're

at in a particular thing.

480

And then do it.

481

Let's pick a different example.

482

Let's say a project on the Vikings

because everyone does projects on Vikings.

483

How are you going to present that project?

484

Okay.

485

So might say, you know what, I

don't fancy doing that project

486

and that should be fine.

487

Some of them might be going to, I've

always wondered what food Vikings eat.

488

Go off and find out.

489

Another kid might going.

490

Joel.

491

I really to, I'd love to build a

long boat or I'd like to make a

492

shield or I'd like to make a helmet.

493

That's the kind of stuff I

think we should be looking at.

494

When we're talking about

homework, we need to give choice.

495

We need to make it meaningful.

496

And we need to make sure that, people

are working with their own novel.

497

What will make this useful?

498

I would love.

499

For example, the one who's making is

how much might be showing off, His

500

is his or her skills in in design.

501

And do you know or what

made the helmet you.

502

It wasn't a good design for a

helmet, I was not the helmet at all.

503

We, I think we all could picture a

Viking helmet in our heads there,

504

but while it's that, what it actually

looked like, there is a question

505

that you might do for your homework.

506

I don't know.

507

I might do it for my homework.

508

I'm curious, now that I'm saying it.

509

There's lots and lots

of talk about homework.

510

I think it's an interesting topic.

511

I think we need to think more deeply

about these things and maybe I'm

512

coming up with a theme here because

I've been thinking a little bit more

513

deeply about smartphones and their use.

514

For young people now.

515

I haven't changed my mind in that.

516

I think it's ridiculous for

a child to own a smartphone.

517

It's it's dangerous.

518

I've.

519

I've I've I've compared it to

giving a child a gun, essentially

520

your I, wounds, you give a child

as smartphone for themselves.

521

You are essentially taking away

their innocence and you are

522

giving them access to things.

523

They should not be a, they should not

have, I haven't changed my mind on that.

524

What I was most annoyed about.

525

Was at the minister for education Norma

Foley essentially asking schools to

526

manage this, um, this whole situation.

527

And if you remember from, it's always in.

528

I guess there I've been doing this.

529

My newsletter for, I think

I'm on the 10th newsletter.

530

And I'd say eight out of 10 of

them have mentioned Norma Foley's.

531

Who's the minister for education.

532

Crusade against smartphone

use and open till now.

533

It's really she's been weak.

534

I feel.

535

Basically, these social contracts.

536

With parents signing these, social

contracts with their schools on

537

getting schools to bond smartphones.

538

It's because there's not a

single school in the country.

539

I don't think that had I was allowing the

use of smartphones during the school day.

540

I know I was disappointed by that.

541

And I was critical of her and, for

really doing nothing particularly useful.

542

My, my argument really was that.

543

There's no point in getting

schools to do these things.

544

You need to be stronger.

545

And you need to be talking to parents.

546

You need to be talking to the people

who make the smartphones or sound smart.

547

You need to be talking to the social media

companies where a lot of this dangerous

548

stuff is happening, where, for example,

on Tik TOK or Snapchat or any of the

549

other ones, it's not just designing to

those, but Tik TOK and Snapchat are the

550

two of the more popular apps for children.

551

That if the algorithm there is

essentially, if you're a, if

552

you're an unknown, I just want

to go back to an article there.

553

Sorry.

554

It's this one.

555

Particularly teenage

boys are being bombarded.

556

So if they, if Tik TOK knows

or YouTube knows that you are a

557

teenage boy, You within minutes are

getting misogynistic and violent.

558

Content on your phone, you're

getting as to which is just not okay.

559

And that influences young males

to believe those messages, these

560

violent messages are from our

messages, toxic sort of anti-feminist

561

messages and real extreme messages,

pornography, all this sorts of stuff.

562

And that doesn't happen by accident.

563

And there's a guy and I haven't

got it here on my screen, but

564

there's a guy who's involved and

I don't know his organization.

565

I actually used to play

tennis with them as a kid.

566

His name is Johnny Ryan.

567

And he, I think he wrote a

book years and years ago.

568

And I was like, oh, I play tennis

with that guy, but he's become very

569

big in the idea of I think internet

security and things like that.

570

Well-respected personality

in terms of technology.

571

He believes, he says, I think there

was a program and he said that these

572

algorithms could be switched off tomorrow.

573

Where you are fed.

574

This information, depending on your age

and your gender and all the rest of us

575

girls I suppose it goes into the article.

576

I don't know.

577

Girls are being bombarded with

self-harming videos and things like that.

578

It's really gross when you

think of it, like really.

579

I'm really worrying.

580

I suppose so, nobody knows that this, none

of this is surprising and none of this.

581

You know, his And it should

be surprising to anybody yet.

582

Parents are still buying their

children's smartphones and children

583

are allowing their kids to access.

584

Content.

585

Ah, that is amazing.

586

There's, I think the, in India, UK,

Something like 30% or 30 to 40% of

587

children aged five to seven, have

their own social media accounts

588

on things like Snapchat, Tik, TOK.

589

That's not it.

590

It's absolutely not.

591

And because there are, because they're

under 13, they have to pretend they're 13.

592

So they're getting this

misogynistic, they're getting this.

593

Aggressive.

594

They're getting the sexualized content to

their phones to five to seven year olds.

595

So going back to Norma Foley.

596

Going back to normal Foley,

I suppose what I'm doing.

597

I guess I'm saying I'm warming.

598

To her crusade is because she

is starting to move away from

599

asking schools to deal with it.

600

And she is putting it up to the companies.

601

What I would suggest is the next step.

602

For the minister on.

603

And her entree government partners

really is to start putting in

604

laws and start paving the way.

605

For laws that much a someone under

18 shouldn't be allowed to have

606

alcohol on their person or shouldn't

have a cigarette on their person.

607

They shouldn't have.

608

A smartphone on their person.

609

And if they are.

610

The responsibility lies with the

person who sold at dot item two.

611

The child or to the adult who has

bought it for the child, that's

612

where we need to move to it.

613

I just can't.

614

I.

615

I did a lot of things.

616

I don't understand.

617

And in my day, the big thing was

parents buying 18 videos for their

618

young children to watch in their highs.

619

This is worse.

620

This is absolutely where it's.

621

This is basically.

622

Buying you're buying your child to go and

activate, it's so dangerous and it's and

623

it's not have the parental controls even.

624

Oh, it is exacerbating.

625

So I am warming to the idea,

but y I'm warming to it.

626

Isn't.

627

I suppose there's an education on the

way I'm warming to it, because I suppose

628

the minister is moving away from getting

schools to deal with the problem, to

629

getting, to actually putting in the laws

and to actually do something about this.

630

So look, they are my three stories

for today at the good grace report

631

which I think has sent shock waves

to genuine Catholics and rightly and

632

hopefully this will spark some change.

633

I've got loads of other stories relating

to the role of religion in education.

634

Our.

635

On in the newsletter, which you can sign

up to by going to onshore.net/subscribe.

636

And I've also obviously a podcast

there on homework which is a good

637

number of years old at this stage.

638

But it's still relevant, I think.

639

And the smartphone bond really, I suppose

we're going to have to think of a little

640

I suppose I'm going to think more on

that and maybe publish a few articles on

641

why I'm warming to the idea of a band.

642

Look, if you've enjoyed at this

episode, please do subscribe on

643

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Spotify or what is apple podcasts?

644

I think it's called or any of

the other podcasts and things.

645

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646

Recently I've moved from Castbox

to snipped, which I quite like.

647

For listening to my own podcast to

listen to podcasts around the country.

648

All the show notes from this podcast

will be available on shot dot Nash.

649

Right now, if you're a, if you're

there on, on shot dot Nash.

650

Go ahead and get to it.

651

And as a society, if you are

listening or watching this on YouTube,

652

please add, give a review because

it helps other people to find it.

653

And please recommend it to

your friends and family.

654

And that's it for me.

655

Thanks so much for listening.

656

All the very best take care.

657

Bye-bye.