Ryan Walters pays the piper, politicians don't want Oklahomans to propose ballot initiatives, and we discuss how well the parties are (or are not) connecting with voters.

Links mentioned:

• Walters settled with Ethics Commission for social media violations
• But…a lawmaker, Ellen Pogemiller, has asked the Attorney General to weigh in on Walters’ connection to a new “professional association” called “Teacher Freedom Alliance.“ She asked AG Drummond to “clarify the legality” of Walters’ conduct concerning the new “Teacher Freedom Alliance.” She also asked Drummond to “investigate the financial ties and contacts (Walters) has with TFA.” 
• A law passed last year creating a new penalty for what it called “impermissible occupation” has been mostly cleared for enforcement by the US DOJ. A federal judge put a stay on the bill under Biden, but now the Trump Administration has dismissed it. 
• Speaking of changes to federal policy, the Oklahoma Insurance Commissioner, Glen Mulready, who most of us forget exists, has issued a warning or a heads up to Oklahomans who have health insurance through the Marketplace (aka Obamacare) that their premiums will likely increase dramatically for 2026 if the federal enhanced Advanced Premium Tax Credits aren’t extended by December. 
• David Shor, head of data science at Blue Rose Research, was on The Ezra Klein Show this week, and it’s fascinating to hear / watch. 

Hello and welcome to Let's Pod This.

2

My name is Andy Moore.

3

It's good to be with you again this week.

4

Friends, I'll apologize off the top.

5

I'm a little stuffy.

6

All the wind and the dust

and the wildfires has really

7

got me a little messed up.

8

And I'm sure, like many of

you, are in the same boat.

9

I, it feels like everyone I

talk to every day is like,

10

these allergies are killing me.

11

And politics also slightly killing me.

12

And like many of you, I'm sure.

13

Happy spring break for those of you

who celebrate, who have kids or jobs

14

where you get to take a spring break.

15

Happy sunshine week to all of you who

care about government transparency.

16

As we highlight almost every

year, the Third week of March is

17

historically sunshine week, celebrated

by transparency organizations, and

18

most notably, the press, the media.

19

Each week even Oklahoma Attorney General

Gittner Drummond had an excellent op

20

ed in the Oklahoman about transparency.

21

Headline states, transparency

is the heart of democracy.

22

Which is true.

23

It's at least one of the

valves, primary artery of that.

24

In Oklahoma, the A.

25

G.

26

's office is the Department or

agency that is, I think, primarily

27

responsible for enforcing the Open

Records Act and Open Meeting Act.

28

They do host trainings around the state.

29

I think they had more than 750 people

who attended their trainings this year.

30

They often do that in conjunction with the

Oklahoma Press Association and sometimes

31

with Freedom of Information, Oklahoma.

32

Which is a non profit that

celebrates or champions transparency

33

and the First Amendment.

34

And in fact, FOI Oklahoma will be hosting

an event about transparency, about the

35

Open Records Act, Open Meeting Act, and

its vital importance to our democracy.

36

And just the first amendment in general

and that event is going to be next week.

37

I believe on Tuesday or Thursday, I

think it's on Thursday the 28th We

38

look at my calendar and I'll tell you

it is on nope, I was wrong, it was

39

on Tuesday the 25th, March 25th FOI

Oklahoma presents Summit on Threats to

40

First Amendment Freedoms from 6 to 8 p.

41

m.

42

at the Northwest Library in Oklahoma City.

43

That's the one, Patience Ladding

Northwest Library, it's at

44

MacArthur and 122nd Northwest

122nd, from 6 to 8 in the evening.

45

I will be there it should be an

interesting conversation, a good event.

46

I think there's going to be a number of

elected officials and other community

47

leaders there to really have a, I think

a pretty honest conversation about what

48

are the primary threats that we might be

seeing to our First Amendment freedoms.

49

There are five freedoms

listed in the First Amendment.

50

If you can name them, please send me

an email at podcast at letsfixthis.

51

org and we'll give you a sticker.

52

Who doesn't love a sticker, right?

53

Great.

54

You can also find A.

55

G.

56

Drummond's op ed in the

Oklahoman at theoklahoman.

57

com if you feel so inclined.

58

So I wanted to start this week with

a brief note just of condolences

59

in our hearts are with all of the

victims in Oklahoma from wildfire,

60

wildfires over the past week.

61

Last weekend, I think in my last

episode, I mentioned that I was headed

62

to Stillwater for the Mid South Gravel

Bike Race, which unfortunately was

63

cancelled due to the wildfires as we

drove up there on Friday afternoon.

64

It was a bizarre trip, right?

65

Just, we all remember, like,

the wind was just raging.

66

Crosswinds made it difficult to drive.

67

The dust in the air gave

everything a bit of a sepia tone.

68

And once we turned off of 35 onto

Highway 51 and were headed east into

69

Stillwater, about halfway through

there is where we hit the fires.

70

And to see large scale wildfires just

running rampant across some of those

71

pastures out there was really striking

and it wasn't long before smoke made

72

the roads unsafe to travel in the law

enforcement had his reroute and kind

73

of take some back roads into town.

74

And I think that first night was

Friday night was really anxiety

75

provoking for everybody in Stillwater.

76

We knew the fires were close.

77

We knew that they were blowing

our direction and closing in.

78

When we got to our Airbnb, us and our

friends, we didn't unpack because we

79

thought we might have to leave again.

80

Thankfully we didn't, but as news began

to trickle in as the fires passed and

81

we saw the number of homes that were

impacted that night and the next day.

82

The event shifted from a 4, 300

person, bike race and running race

83

on top of that, to a benefit event.

84

I know they've raised over 10, 000 just

from a couple of cyclists that did, like,

85

really long 300 mile rides, it's like

a a ride a thon almost, to raise funds.

86

A lot of local businesses Stone Cloud

Brewing, some of the event sponsors

87

pivoted and made made some contributions

towards helping those in wildfire relief

88

into the United Way of Payne County.

89

If you are interested in helping victims

of the wildfires in Stillwater or

90

Norman or anywhere else in the state

I suggest, looking for trusted sources

91

there, or if families directly impacted,

finding ways to give to them directly.

92

But groups like United Way, like Red

Cross if you're a Norman Red Dirt Voices

93

is a mutual aid organization, or Red Dirt

Collective, excuse me, Red Dirt Collective

94

is a mutual aid organization that is doing

a lot of work directly with families.

95

They're a great way to give there, so.

96

Gosh what a scary weekend.

97

I know that, the wind, even through

last night, was still pretty high.

98

I think we're experiencing some

high winds coming up in a few days.

99

And until we get some, I guess,

like, April showers to dampen things

100

again, this dry period, this windy

period, means this is the new normal.

101

We can get into a much larger conversation

about climate change and how we arrived

102

at this point, and why weather patterns

have perhaps shifted the way they have,

103

but that's an episode for another day.

104

Let's start with some

updates from last week.

105

There were several news stories

that we covered last week.

106

That we already have updates on.

107

I think some I mentioned

we would, and indeed we do.

108

First of all, State Superintendent

Ryan Walters, as we discussed

109

last week, had settled an issue

with the Ethics Commission.

110

They were also filing some new ones.

111

They were sending some to district court.

112

But this one in particular, they

mentioned that he had already

113

settled, but last week they had

not yet released the terms of that.

114

And this is an issue where he was

using his I guess his personal

115

Twitter account, but it made it look

like it was an official account.

116

It had Superintendent in the name, it

like, it had his official headshot,

117

all those things that you might use

on an official government account.

118

And the Ethics Commission said,

hey, this is very blurry here.

119

You are misleading the public and it

is making it seem like you're using An

120

official account for personal purposes,

namely endorsing and supporting or

121

opposing political candidates in

some other, like, partisan issues.

122

And so, in response, he settled

he has to pay 5, 000 fine, which

123

is not huge, but it's not nothing.

124

And if it was me and I got fined

5, 000, that's a lot of money.

125

He also had to change his profile

photo and his handle, or whatever

126

that's called, the at name.

127

To keep using it as a personal account.

128

And I guess he's done that.

129

I don't know.

130

I don't actually follow him, because

I don't need that in my life.

131

But that's the outcome of that one.

132

But then also this week on the new side of

news, a state lawmaker, Ellen Pogemiller,

133

representative from House District 88,

whom we had on the show just a few weeks

134

ago, actually she has formally requested

that the Attorney General weigh in on

135

whether or not Ryan Walter's connection

to this new professional association,

136

which is called Teacher Freedom Alliance.

137

A representative, Pogue Miller, asked

AG Drummond to quote, clarify the

138

legality of Walters conduct concerning

this new Teacher Freedom Alliance.

139

She also asked Drummond to

investigate any financial ties and

140

contacts between Walters and TFA.

141

What's funny to me about this, or

interesting, is that this group,

142

Teacher Freedom Alliance, I think

they say that they are a professional

143

association or professional organization,

but they really act like A union.

144

And I think Walter's rhetoric around

this, he said, like, now there's an

145

alternative to the woke teacher unions.

146

And anyone who has followed Oklahoma

news for the last several years has seen

147

Ryan Walters use the phrase, like, woke

teacher unions, right, a number of times.

148

He often characterizes them as

being this, like, arm of the left

149

deep state and that they're, like,

indoctrinating teachers, I don't know,

150

like, it's all kind of wild stuff.

151

Considering that they're a labor union

that just wants public employees, teachers

152

and school employees to be appropriately

paid and compensated they, to now be

153

aligning with this group that looks

like it's like a stand up organization

154

just on the opposite side of the aisle.

155

A lot of the rhetoric is definitely

around, um, like using the term

156

freedom in the way that, the

Freedom Caucus and this far right

157

contingent tend to use that word.

158

So we'll see.

159

The AG's office has reported that

they've received that request and

160

they'll be responding as appropriate.

161

So we'll see what happens over

the next few weeks with that.

162

Of course, everything here is like a

little pull, a little more political

163

than usual because the Attorney

General is running for governor.

164

And then rumors are on Ryan

Walters that he's either running

165

for governor or running for re

election as state superintendent.

166

We don't, none of that has

been formally announced yet.

167

But there's this like, I don't know, bias,

expectation, suspicion, something, right?

168

About these two guys in the

news that it makes it difficult,

169

I think, for voters, right?

170

For most of us.

171

Like, you want justice to be

served as necessary, right?

172

Either people are convicted or exonerated

or punished or set free or whatever.

173

It's like the right thing to

do by the letter of the law.

174

But as we all know, when politicians

get involved, it gets murky, right?

175

Because then there are not just legal

incentives, right versus wrong, there are

176

political incentives, how does this play

with my base, my supporters, um, which

177

of these groups is going to donate to my

campaign or to support me along the way.

178

And that, I think, shifts the incentives

that a lot of these leaders have, right?

179

I for one, want our Attorney

General to be incentivized by the

180

law, by doing the right thing.

181

I want our state superintendent

to be incentivized by doing the

182

right thing for public schools.

183

That's his job as state superintendent of

public instruction not by political wins.

184

I also get, right, realistically,

that what I personally may believe is

185

the right thing for Oklahoma's public

schools may be different than what

186

Superintendent Walters believes to be

right for Oklahoma's public schools.

187

That, again, is a much larger

conversation for another episode.

188

I just do think it's funny, just to come

back to, like, that this Teacher Freedom

189

Alliance, like, really looks and is acting

like a teacher's union, but we know that

190

Walters hates unions, so Who are they?

191

What are they?

192

Are they a think tank?

193

I saw them described as a

think tank in one write up.

194

And so, I'll be very curious.

195

Also, whenever new groups like this

pop up, especially around, like,

196

in the close proximity to elected

officials, I get a little suspicious.

197

And it sounds like Representative

Pogemiller might be a

198

little suspicious as well.

199

I guess we'll find out.

200

Also last week, we discussed a law that

is going through the process this year

201

that addresses, we'll say, immigration.

202

That's a broad term for this, but that's

what it's about, and it seeks to fiddle

203

with a a law that was passed last year

that was pretty contentious, and this

204

that deals with a, what they called,

quote, impermissible occupation, right?

205

So this law passed last year House

206

I don't have it written down.

207

Basically created a new penalty

for what they called impermissible

208

occupation, which means like being

in Oklahoma illegally is what

209

they're trying to say, right?

210

I said there's some sort of

permission process, but they're

211

trying to dance around undocumented

folks living in Oklahoma.

212

And that basically, if you are

caught breaking any other law and

213

then you are found to be here.

214

Illegally, then there's

an additional consequence.

215

The law this year would make that

a felony by itself, and the reason

216

they have a law this year is that

the previous law, the one passed last

217

year, 4156, has been on hold, right?

218

A federal judge issued a stay last year

that said, hang on, like, this is perhaps

219

unconstitutional or illegal in some way.

220

So it cannot be enforced while

it goes through the process

221

and that was filed by the U.

222

S.

223

Department of Justice last year

when Joe Biden was still president.

224

As we have a new president now, a

new head of DOJ and the new DOG,

225

excuse me, DOJ administration

has dismissed that case entirely.

226

Which means that law can go into

effect as it was passed last year.

227

Pending another sort of If there's

not another legal challenge filed,

228

or some other stay put on it.

229

As with legal stuff, there's

always something else coming.

230

It also means that the fate of the

bill this year is somewhat in question.

231

I would expect they'll probably still go

through with it, because I think they were

232

aiming to clean up some of the language.

233

Dealt with it before.

234

But regardless, I wanted to update you.

235

Don't you know that has passed?

236

Or been dismissed, so that

it's free to be enforced.

237

The AG's office here said that they were

reviewing it as well, and as far as they

238

can tell, It just means that the federal

government is okay with it being enforced.

239

I think they'll be looking to

take a look at it at the state

240

level now, again, as well.

241

And then for my own piece,

right, this is Andy's commentary.

242

I think this is dumb.

243

This, not this issue necessarily,

but like, this bill necessarily,

244

but this issue more broadly,

that like, the partisanship of

245

law, which I know is a thing.

246

And it's annoying because when we, the

public, start to realize that what is

247

considered legal or illegal varies quite

widely by political winds, right, by

248

who's in the White House or who's in the

governor's mansion or like who's in power,

249

if it means that the law does not stand

on its own, and that erodes the public's

250

trust in institutions a great deal, right?

251

Even if we were to take something as

simple as a speed limit, and let's

252

say speed limits were 55 miles an

hour when Republicans are in charge

253

or 70 miles an hour when Democrats

are in charge, it would be absurd for

254

us to think that we have to drive a

certain speed just because someone's.

255

In charge, in a state, right?

256

That could vary state to state,

that could vary city to city.

257

And it could also like what if

they don't replace all the signs?

258

That's a big expense if they do it.

259

There's all these like

trickle down effects of that.

260

And that would be ridiculous.

261

Because it would just tell us that it is

not based on science or safety standards.

262

It is based on politics.

263

And I think most people feel like

that's a dumb way to govern, right?

264

That there should be, we understand that

there's a certain amount of partisanship

265

that is inherent in the system that might

flavor priorities or some like funding

266

decisions, and maybe even some tax

policy, like there's some element of it.

267

But now in this modern world

where everything top to bottom is

268

completely tainted in partisanship.

269

Red or blue, there is very

little room for anything that is

270

in between or outside of that.

271

If one party is for something,

the other party necessarily feels

272

like they must be against it.

273

There's very little overlap where

both groups are for something or

274

both groups are opposed to something.

275

Then it makes it really hard for all of us

in the world to like find our way through.

276

And so in this, going back

to this example, right, like

277

the idea that someone's.

278

I think most people would agree, right?

279

If there's, if someone is in the

country and has come here not through

280

the prescribed channels, like they are

here in a undocumented or illegal way,

281

not that they as a person are illegal,

that's a whole other conversation, but

282

like their presence here was outside

the prescripted method in the law.

283

Like, I think most Americans agree

like, okay, well, that's not ideal.

284

And that's like arguably even wrong.

285

Or like, okay.

286

And then you have an option of

like, well, what's the problem here?

287

Is it the fact that they are here?

288

Is that the problem?

289

What if they're working and

paying taxes and raising a family

290

and contributing to society?

291

Like their presence might be

great and in many cases is.

292

The problem then is not on the

individual, but on the system

293

that forced them to end up here.

294

In this method, right?

295

Many, most, I don't know, I haven't

started, but many immigrants, I'll

296

say most immigrants, want to come

to America to have a better life.

297

Isn't that the whole thing?

298

It's like inscribed on

the Statue of Liberty.

299

This is a whole thing.

300

America is a melting pot, and we

have celebrated that for 200 years.

301

Our immigration system

right now is a Messed up.

302

And we're not alone.

303

A bunch of countries, like most Western,

civilized, industrialized countries,

304

like, are experiencing this problem with

immigration that they haven't figured

305

out how to wrap their head around

because it has become an intractable

306

problem where neither party wants to

collaborate or compromise with the

307

other to make a solution that's workable

that actually addresses the problem.

308

Even, last year or the year before last

Oklahoma Senator James Lankford like

309

proposed an immigration reform bill that

was, had bipartisan support, but went down

310

in flames because someone who was not yet

the president, Trump, was out of office

311

and he said he didn't like it and that

tanked the bill from outside the Capitol.

312

And so When problems like this that

do have bipartisan support towards

313

solutions, not even great solutions, just

like a temporary partial solution had

314

bipartisan support, and some dude who is

not in office of any kind can sink it,

315

our incentives are misaligned, right?

316

Politicians are governing or attempting to

govern, perhaps for right reasons, right?

317

But they're being incentivized

to do it for wrong ones, right?

318

And often, those wrong ones are

simply just getting re elected.

319

Like, when a politician's primary

goal is to get re elected and not

320

to serve the people that they're

currently elected to serve?

321

This is, we've put the emphasis

on the wrong syllable, right?

322

There's something here that they are

rewarding, that we are rewarding.

323

That is not what most people want.

324

Most people want government to function so

well that we never have to think about it.

325

And that is clearly not the

way things are going right now.

326

Speaking of changes to federal policy,

the, also this week, the Oklahoma

327

Insurance Commissioner, Glenn Mulready,

who most of us forget exists as an

328

individual, but as a position, like

I forget the insurance commissioner

329

is on a statewide elected official,

they'll be on the ballot next year.

330

It's someone we'll be electing next year.

331

He issued a warning, or like more of

a heads up this week to Oklahomans

332

who have health insurance through the

marketplace, the Affordable Care Act,

333

Obamacare, whatever you want to call it.

334

Premiums, the part you pay each month,

are very likely to increase dramatically

335

next year if the federal enhanced advanced

premium tax credits aren't extended.

336

Okay, so let me break this down.

337

The ACA was passed years ago, right,

under Obama, and rolled out slowly

338

across America, not without some

hiccups, but it's been in effect

339

for quite a while now, right?

340

More than 10 years, I think.

341

And in Oklahoma, there's like 300, 000

Oklahomans that have health insurance

342

they buy through the marketplace,

right, through the Affordable Care Act.

343

And just like any insurance, there's

a monthly premium you have to pay.

344

During the pandemic the federal

government, as part of their

345

big stimulus aid bills, included

basically a discount, right?

346

They said, we're gonna reduce

premiums for everybody on

347

Marketplace by a substantial amount.

348

Because there's a lot of, economic

instability, a lot of uncertainty, people

349

are losing jobs, everything was in chaos.

350

And so the Fed said, we're

going to send you some checks.

351

We're going to like, make this big

discount to make it easier to afford.

352

So if you like, lose your job

or things change, maybe you

353

can still keep bumping along.

354

For most Oklahomans, like if you're

an average Oklahoman who has a silver

355

plan through the marketplace, it's like

gold, silver, bronze, platinum, I guess.

356

If you have a silver plan, which is like

a middle of the road, regular plan, Right

357

now, your premium is around 58 a month.

358

That includes this, like, extra discount.

359

But, the pandemic ended.

360

Things are back to normal ish.

361

There's a new administration in town.

362

And so, they're like, a

new congress is in town.

363

They're saying, hey, we

gotta end these discounts.

364

We've been given for several years,

because it's costing a lot of money.

365

In fact, Cumulatively, this costs,

these extra discounts cost like 338

366

billion, which is a lot of money.

367

But it's not going to nothing, right?

368

Like, it's helping pay for insurance.

369

For millions of people.

370

Like I said, in Oklahoma there's

300, 000, just in our little state.

371

And so if you are paying 58 bucks a

month and these discounts go away, it

372

means that next year your premium will

be something like 153 dollars a month.

373

So 100 bucks a month increase.

374

Which is a lot, right?

375

That's a lot for everybody.

376

Most everybody.

377

For sure everyone has

Marketplace insurance.

378

That's a lot of money.

379

That might mean that people

can't afford it anymore.

380

And so they drop their plan

and they don't have insurance.

381

And that sparks a whole other problem.

382

What I haven't heard yet is any

acknowledgement that a lot of the

383

politicians who fought against the

ACA are now fighting for it because

384

they don't want their constituents

to lose insurance coverage, right?

385

This idea suddenly that Congress

might end these discounts and throw

386

a bunch of chaos, a bunch of, and

effectively throw people off insurance,

387

right, by their own volition.

388

Force them off by higher prices means

that fewer people will have insurance.

389

And that is the kind of thing that

like, is a proper incentive, right?

390

Politicians should be incentivized to

make sure that their constituents are like

391

healthy and have some economic security

and aren't gonna go completely bankrupt if

392

they break their arm or toe or something.

393

So we'll see what happens.

394

They've got until December,

so we got a long time to go.

395

But it's going to be a tough deal.

396

Like, I mean, just financially

speaking, 338 billion is a lot of money.

397

Especially when it was like

designed to be temporary.

398

But as we know, the federal government,

there's a lot of stuff that is

399

passed in a temporary way that has

a magical way of becoming permanent.

400

So we'll see what happens with that.

401

And I think, again, this is Andy

talking, but Shouldn't we be talking

402

about single payer insurance again?

403

I know if you like your insurance

you should be allowed to

404

keep it, that's fine with me.

405

But like there's a bunch of other

countries, like most other countries

406

have figured this out decades ago.

407

That it is cheaper and more effective

for everybody to have just like one

408

nationalized system that everybody

has the same Health insurance, right?

409

Because right now with private

companies in there, these are

410

private for profit companies in

many cases, and that means that they

411

are incentivized to make a profit.

412

Which means they have to charge

you more than they pay out,

413

so that they have a profit.

414

And that means that we are paying

money in not to get benefits

415

back, but for shareholders

somewhere to get Wealthy, right?

416

Like this again, this changes

the incentives of how the

417

insurance company behaves.

418

And if those insurance companies

are paying lobbyists or giving

419

money to politicians to get them

reelected, it is creating a cycle.

420

That is just full of

misaligned incentives, right?

421

Politicians pass laws to ensure that

insurance companies can stay in place and

422

earn bigger profits, and then they use

those profits to give bigger checks to

423

politicians to get them re elected so that

they can ensure that insurance companies

424

make bigger profits, and they use those

profits to pay off politicians to pass,

425

like you see this cycle really easily.

426

That is nuts.

427

the kind of system that I want, right?

428

I want people to be able

to go to the doctor.

429

It is insane to me the amount

of money that we have to pay out

430

of pocket every month for health

insurance, whether you use it or not.

431

And then if you do use it, you still

have to pay out of pocket, right?

432

We've been trying to get my

daughter scheduled to have a

433

tonsillectomy for several months.

434

It was supposed to be last fall and then,

or last winter, and she got sick, and

435

so we had to reschedule for this year.

436

And we rescheduled it out far

enough because we needed some time

437

to try to reach our deductible.

438

And the and now it's been punted again,

and so we're still working on it.

439

But our decision is governed not

entirely by our daughter's health,

440

but like by financial consequences

for us, like trying to afford this,

441

which is not the way we should be

thinking about our health, right?

442

When we are constantly having

to think, how bad do I need this

443

preventative measure versus how bad

do I need this money to buy eggs?

444

And when that's the thing we're

all at home worrying about, Right?

445

Then we definitely are not, it

diminishes our bandwidth to worry

446

about big picture problems, right?

447

Threats to the First Amendment, threats

to democracy, or how elections happen,

448

how the initial petition happens.

449

Things that really do have a downstream

consequence for our lives, but when we

450

are forced to be distracted by the inane,

unnecessary, like, budgetary concerns of

451

fiscal policy from healthcare decisions

made a decade ago, and how it affects us

452

month to month now, it is understandable

that we might feel exhausted.

453

And in many cases, voters

decide to tune out, right?

454

I get it.

455

Alright, you may have pickered up

on the fact that this episode is

456

like two parts news updates, one

part Andy's rants about the system.

457

Righteous rants, I will

say, but rants nonetheless.

458

Speaking of threats to the initial

petition process, a bill was

459

passed in the Senate this week.

460

And this is spring break, they were

only in session for two days ironic

461

that they pushed through a nasty

bill when no one's paying attention.

462

And I haven't really talked

about this much on the show yet.

463

I've been trying to get some

people together to discuss it,

464

but we haven't got there yet.

465

Senate Bill 1027 would make sweeping

changes to the initiative petition or the

466

ballot initiative process in our state.

467

And I will begin, as I always do, by

reminding you that the right of the

468

people to petition their government

is the first right that is enumerated

469

in the Oklahoma State Constitution.

470

And that is not by accident, that is

by design, because the framers of our

471

Constitution knew that there would be

times in the history of our state where

472

we cannot and should not rely on our

elected officials to do the right thing.

473

There are, there will be times when

they will be unable or unwilling to

474

pass the laws that our people need

and demand, and we need to have a

475

mechanism to do that on our own.

476

Here we are.

477

I would argue it's more necessary now

than it's ever been because of how

478

deeply divided our state is, right?

479

That politicians who are in office are

not incentivized, as we just discussed,

480

to pass laws, in many cases, that are

actually to the benefit of the public.

481

of the public, and they are certainly

not incentivized on any level to pass

482

laws governing themselves, right?

483

This is why the legislature,

they opted themselves out of the

484

Open Record and Open Meeting Act.

485

This is why the legislature only seems

to propose restrictions on the people's

486

right to petition their government.

487

They never pass laws restricting

their own right to do that, right?

488

We've seen this slide over the

last, I don't know, decade or so.

489

Ballot initiatives are relatively

few and far between in Oklahoma

490

compared to other states that have it.

491

We might have one or two or three

on a ballot, every couple of years.

492

And sometimes, like last year,

there are some that are referred by

493

the legislature and those kind of

sneak in without people being aware.

494

When it's a campaign, when it's

truly a campaign of the people,

495

because that's a lot of work, right?

496

There's a lot of people involved.

497

You have to collect signatures,

you have to promote it, you have to

498

market it, you have to tell people

about it, you have to do months

499

and years of education around it.

500

And that's what's happened with

Open Primaries, which is one that's

501

going through the process right now.

502

I've been talking about Open

503

Oklahoma Academy has been talking

504

Oklahoma United has been talking

about it for several years.

505

Like this is not new.

506

No one's sneaking this in anywhere.

507

It is not even for sure on the ballot yet.

508

We got a long way to go.

509

Minimum wage is going to

be on the ballot next year.

510

Again, that campaign, long, arduous, lots

of like headlines, lots of legal battles.

511

It's a hard work to get

a question on the ballot.

512

Before that, we worked

on one for redistricting.

513

Of course, the pandemic happened and we

weren't able to complete that process

514

because we were all on lockdown.

515

Before that we had Medicaid expansion,

which is something that the legislature,

516

that's a great example, the legislature

spent 10 years talking about it.

517

The legislature even passed

it and enacted it into law and

518

the governor vetoed it, right?

519

This was not a new thing.

520

And it finally, when the legislature was

unable, first they were unwilling, and

521

then they were unable to get it done.

522

It went to the people

and the people did it.

523

It was at criminal justice reform,

but you've also had things that have

524

been championed by Republicans, right?

525

Right to work.

526

Right to farm.

527

That was more of a corporate

farming bill, not really a right,

528

but that's how it was marketed.

529

There were, there've been ballot

initiatives led by, we'll say

530

partisans or partisan esque

people on both sides of the aisle.

531

This is not a tool of the left.

532

This is a tool of the people.

533

And the legislature, in its infinite

wisdom, some members, are once

534

again taking aim at it in a way

that is harmful and unnecessary.

535

So, this bill, Senate Bill 1027,

would do a number of things, and

536

it's only halfway through, right, or

we'll say a third of the way through.

537

It's past the Senate, it's

gotta go to the House, and then

538

ultimately to the Governor's desk.

539

Some of the things it would do is that

it changes how signatures are collected.

540

So right now you have to have

a set number of signatures.

541

You collect them wherever you can.

542

Most campaigns go to all 77 states

because that's the way to do it, right?

543

That's the right way to do it.

544

That's what minimum wage did.

545

That's what Medicaid expansion did.

546

That's, we had a really, developed

field plan for redistricting

547

to go to every county.

548

You want that.

549

This would limit it so that you can

only have 10 percent of signatures

550

from Oklahoma and Tulsa County.

551

Those are, that is, counties

with 400, 000 or more people.

552

And then for all the other counties,

the other 75 counties, you can't have

553

more than 4 percent from any one county.

554

So you could theoretically not have to go

to every county to like meet this, but a

555

good campaign is going to every county.

556

We already do.

557

That's how you do it.

558

That's the right thing to do.

559

And that's how it happens.

560

It also adds some barriers to the process.

561

It like Blocks any out of state donations.

562

It also means you add some changes to the

gist, which is like the language that's

563

on the signature page when you sign.

564

You have to have, signature

collectors I think can't be out of

565

state, that they have name tags,

things that, again, we do right now.

566

It seems pretty clear that

this might be aimed at the open

567

primaries effort that's happening.

568

And I think that campaign is,

I've seen op eds from them,

569

they're certainly worried, right?

570

That if you change the process

midstream, that's not fair.

571

And might, should be illegal.

572

I don't know.

573

So, this bill goes over to the

House now, we'll see what happens.

574

Speaker Hilbert is one of

the authors over there.

575

There are several

authors in both chambers.

576

And so we'll see what happens.

577

It's a long road ahead, right?

578

There's still a lot of session left.

579

But it's, and I don't even know

if it's been assigned to a House

580

committee yet, but I would, if it's

something you're interested in, right?

581

Like, make your voice heard.

582

This is an important issue.

583

We'll send out some action

alerts about it soon.

584

Okay, that's it for a news roundup,

with, at least on the state level.

585

But this week in my weekly consumption

of podcasts and other political

586

media, there's been one thing that's

stood out to me from the rest,

587

and in some ways it's because it.

588

Isn't just on one outlet, right?

589

So there's a guy named David Shore,

S H O R he is head of data science

590

at an organization called Blue Rose

Research, which is a democratic

591

messaging firm, like the research firm.

592

They do tons of studies and

polling and all kinds of stuff.

593

I guess they're big.

594

I don't know.

595

I'm not a democrat.

596

But David Shore was on the Ezra Klein

show, which I listened to a little bit.

597

Fairly often, not every episode,

sometimes Ezra drives me nuts

598

as like a, coastal elite thing.

599

But if you Google David Shore, S H

O R, today, you'll see his Wikipedia

600

first, and then under the top stories,

there's one from Vox, the New York

601

Times, New York Magazine Center

for Economic and Policy, something.

602

Esquire Magazine the Breakthrough

Institute, just LinkedIn in

603

general a bunch of things.

604

And they are all about this guy

and his like new publication.

605

Young guy is like 33 which is humbling.

606

He's like 10 years younger than me.

607

But he has done.

608

His firm has done a ton of research about

609

I think it's fascinating, regardless of

your party affiliation or non affiliation.

610

But I think data about

voters is fascinating.

611

Polling surveys about who we

are as Americans is fascinating.

612

I would I encourage you to

listen to it, or better yet,

613

watch it because he has slides.

614

And who doesn't want to sit around

at home watching a YouTube video

615

of some egghead talking about

political science with slides?

616

But the graphs are really excellent.

617

I will admit, I listened to

Ezra's podcast the other day while

618

we were doing some painting at

the, here in the Democracy Den.

619

And I got done.

620

I was like, shoot, I gotta

watch this whole thing again.

621

It's like an hour long because

I need to see the slides.

622

They tried to describe them, but as

I've talked to other people who watched

623

it, they said it's really compelling.

624

And I think Ezra's voice was pretty

clear that it was really compelling

625

to see some of these numbers.

626

And what's fascinating to

me is this shift, right?

627

So like, I'll just read you some of

the headlines about Shor's article.

628

From Vox, it says, this is why Kamala

Harris really lost, subheading,

629

TikTok is making young voters

more Republican, question mark.

630

And then New York Magazine, why non white

voters and young men drifted to Trump.

631

And then Esquire, when did we decide

that democracy and improving people's

632

lives contradicted each other?

633

This is a.

634

Another I think op ed piece.

635

Maybe it's not.

636

Anyway, that's basically

the theme of all of them.

637

And I think they're putting

too much emphasis on TikTok.

638

In some ways.

639

But they are right to point

out that the media environment

640

is super fragmented, right?

641

Those of you who listen to this show are

a select group of people who pay attention

642

to Oklahoma politics more closely than

probably any of your friends, right?

643

Each of our episodes gets about 3,

000 downloads in a month which is

644

way more than I would ever think.

645

And that's, I take that back.

646

Each episode probably gets 400

downloads in the first month, but we

647

have about 3, 000 downloads each month.

648

So like some people

listen to past episodes.

649

That sounds like a, that's a lot to me.

650

It's not like a murder podcast, but

in the scale of like, well, we've

651

got 3 million eligible voters,

it is a fraction of 1%, right?

652

The kind of people who vote,

especially in presidential elections,

653

are increasingly difficult to

quantify, or to even to qualify?

654

Quantify.

655

Because there's a lot of folks who are

likely voters, and then there's also an

656

increasing number of unlikely voters.

657

I think there's a Trump effect with this.

658

But a lot of this conversation is about

really how Democrats like lost their base

659

and like seem to like be unable to message

to even a lot of their own supporters or

660

more broadly to the electorate in ways

that they used to take for granted, right?

661

I'm thinking back to 2008.

662

And hope and change and Obama's first

term and there was like this sentiment

663

then that like, Oh, Democrats are going

to have a majority for the next 50 years.

664

Like we've crushed it, we really,

we've unlocked the potential.

665

And then eight years later, Trump

was elected and Democrats were

666

like, what the heck happened?

667

I think Democ or Republicans are

struggling with this in their own way

668

as well, and that's a conversation for

another day, but I would encourage you

669

just to watch the conversation around

issues like open primaries, right?

670

Where there is a fraction or a faction

of the Republican base, especially

671

politicians who are more interested

in holding on to power and appealing

672

to a smaller group of voters than

what used to be the case in the party.

673

But Democrats, there's a trope,

right, about Democrats in disarray.

674

Even if you watch the West

Wing, they make jokes about it.

675

President Bartlett makes jokes in,

I think, season six or season seven,

676

about the media loving to write stories

about Democrats being in disarray.

677

And I would say that's probably

why David Shore has been so

678

widely publicized this week.

679

But also, he's got good data.

680

And it really is fascinating.

681

I think As I've told a couple of friends

this week, I think part of the issue

682

in my mind is that a lot of the thing,

this is my own term, but I'm gonna, I'm

683

gonna coin it here on the show, that I

think we think about Republicans being

684

supportive of an American first policy,

especially like in foreign policy, right?

685

But focusing on what's good

for America first, and then

686

worry about other countries.

687

down the road.

688

And while I take issue with that in a

number of ways, I think what Democrats

689

miss out on is not America first, but

it's like an American hedonism, right?

690

Like a pleasure principle of

what it means to be an American.

691

And they haven't, they're like aloof

in a way that makes it difficult.

692

And I don't know if this is like the

Coastal elite bias of the Democratic

693

Party, or this like, education gap that is

often discussed, including on this episode

694

with David Shore and Ezra Klein, or what.

695

But Republicans figuring out how

to connect with regular, everyday

696

folks in a way that is easier,

or at least more successful.

697

Sometimes it's because they're

just telling them what they want to

698

hear, and they know they're lying

about it, and that's problematic.

699

From like a truth standpoint, but

if you just care about electoral

700

outcomes, seems to be working.

701

But then other stuff that I think

the left will write off, right?

702

Like Trump going to the Daytona 500 and

going to like sporting events like that.

703

All I heard from Democrats or I read

online would be people like, Oh,

704

this is costing so much money and

oh, what a hassle for everybody.

705

I was like, yeah, it is.

706

But it's also pretty cool if you're

at an event and the president comes.

707

Right?

708

It might be a hassle, sure, especially

if you don't like the president, but if

709

you do, or you're neutral about it, you

don't really care, it's still cool to

710

be in an event where the most powerful

person in the world is also there, right?

711

To be like, oh wow, they're a

celebrity, I saw them, they're

712

the president, that's cool.

713

And I think that, like, simple explanation

connects with people in ways that

714

esoteric, complicated policy does not.

715

To connect with what we said about

healthcare earlier, a joke that

716

I said to Scott the other day was

Americans say we want universal

717

healthcare, but what Americans

really want is a Bud Light, right?

718

Like there's like a, and I know that's

reductionist and also like not accurate

719

for everybody, but you probably

also chuckled a little bit, right?

720

Because is that solving healthcare

is a huge problem, a huge Yeah.

721

Complicated system that's very difficult,

and it's much easier to be like, Hey

722

man, let's just sit down and have a beer.

723

And that feels relaxing, and

that feels like a relief.

724

And that is the kind of

government that people want.

725

A government that they

don't have to worry about.

726

They're just like, hey, man, this

shit's hard, but he's got my back,

727

and I got a cold one, so, that's okay.

728

And I'm not arguing that we

should all be that way, right?

729

We should not all give up or be simple,

but I do think that anyone who cares about

730

public policy on any side of politics

needs to be more intentional about how

731

we meet people where they are, right?

732

Maybe that's just like, and I think

in many cases that is just showing

733

up and being present and not come in.

734

Necessary with a slide deck, not coming

with a fancy, polished presentation.

735

But it's about building real

relationships, and talking to people

736

for who they are, and accepting them

for who they are, even when it's ugly.

737

A little rough around the edges.

738

Right?

739

I know I say this all the time, but,

again, to reference the West Wing,

740

There's a tremendous scene, right,

where Toby says that government, for

741

all its failings in the past and for

those yet to come, Is a force for good.

742

And I think that's what

most people really want.

743

If you really push them.

744

They don't want it to go away.

745

Entirely.

746

They want it to like, get out of the way.

747

We don't want to have to worry about

saying the wrong thing all the time.

748

Or fitting in.

749

I think that's the problem, right?

750

I think too often, at least

right now, Democrats have made

751

it more difficult to fit in.

752

to their group than Republicans have.

753

You can show up and be a hot mess,

and Republicans are like, come on in.

754

With Democrats, you gotta

be a little more refined.

755

And that is off putting to lots of people.

756

Like, I get it.

757

And on many cases, people are

not switching to Republicans,

758

they're switching to no party,

to being independent, or they're

759

opting out of the whole system.

760

They're saying, gross, I don't want

to have to work so hard to fit in,

761

but I also don't want to be down

here with everybody, this is like a

762

motley crew, I'm just gonna opt out.

763

And that, as I say almost every week, is

my biggest fear, right, that a smaller

764

and smaller percentage of the American

electorate will actually participate.

765

Thankfully, it's not, so far

it's not the case, right?

766

So far, people are actually

tuning in and showing up, at

767

least at presidential elections.

768

But we hope that it happens in

down ballot races as well, right?

769

That we need people to be

tuned in, to pay attention.

770

And we, I argue, we need people to be

smart and to be thoughtful and to do

771

the hard thing, which is to care about

how you're showing up a little bit.

772

Or at least, like, read, you don't have

to like read the whole chapter, but

773

you gotta read the bold print vocab

words before something like, you gotta

774

know how things work a little bit.

775

Because if we expect government to

just be a, Ronco, set it and forget

776

it kind of thing that we don't ever

participate in, then we're not doing

777

the maintenance required to make

sure it's still running properly.

778

So you gotta pay attention to some.

779

But I do think that if you are someone

listening to this and you do any kind

780

of community organizing, and this I'm,

I will acknowledge I am talking to

781

myself right now you would be amazed

at the piles of notes I have about

782

This that we're trying to incorporate

into our work, but like, we have to

783

think about how we're showing up and how

we're expecting others to show up to, and

784

I, we're not, this is not a reality show.

785

We're not trying to, or

it's not like a production.

786

It really is the most basic

of human skills and that's

787

connecting with one another.

788

So.

789

I'm going to walk around with my

head thinking about what Americans

790

think we want as universal health

care, but what most Americans

791

really want is just a Bud Light.

792

In the moment you want to argue about

the quality of Bud Light versus a local

793

craft beer, you have lost them, right?

794

I, that's how it goes, right?

795

You're speaking to a select crowd, but

in general, right, that's not the point.

796

The point is, Americans

want to take a deep breath.

797

Everything is hard.

798

Everything is hard right now.

799

Things are expensive.

800

People are worried about

their jobs and their kids.

801

They are worried about health care.

802

They're worried about going broke.

803

They're worried about the retirement

accounts that are, have lost a big

804

chunk in the last couple of weeks.

805

There's an immense amount of

uncertainty in the future.

806

The Fed is holding the rates steady

because they're uncertain about things.

807

Like, there's a lot of stuff going

on in the world right now, right?

808

Are we going to annex Canada?

809

Are we going to be at war with Canada?

810

What's going to happen with the future?

811

There's a really good episode of

Freakonomics the other day talking

812

about the the future impact of the

national debt and deficit, and how

813

that's The Wharton School of Business

tried to create a financial model, like

814

a computer model to estimate how big the

national debt will be in like 30 years

815

and the model broke because basically

under our current economic status our

816

government will fall apart before,

within 30 years if we don't fix things.

817

So like, shit is bad.

818

Things are not good right now.

819

We've got some real

problems we need to solve.

820

And because of that, we have to be

intentional about how we approach them.

821

And step one is like

getting everybody on board.

822

And that means we gotta be a little more

accepting of who is coming in the room

823

and just celebrate that they're there.

824

We can work on refining things later,

but we need everybody in the room.

825

And if you're gonna, if we're gonna

be at the door, Like a bouncer and

826

keeping out a whole bunch of folks

that want to be in the room really bad.

827

We are limiting our success,

like from step one, step two is

828

educating all those people on the

problem and the solutions, right?

829

Step three is making some action

plans for how we're going to implement

830

the solutions that we've identified.

831

That's a step.

832

Okay.

833

Well, that really ended

up on a rosy note, right?

834

Great.

835

Thanks.

836

Thanks for being here.

837

Like, thanks for listening.

838

Thanks for being willing to stand

in uncomfortable spaces with us, to

839

wrestle with difficult issues with us.

840

Thanks for listening to

my voice for an hour.

841

That's not how you want to spend

your week every week, I don't think.

842

Hey, friends, regardless of what

kind of beer you like to drink or

843

don't like to drink, if you don't

like beer, that's fine, right?

844

Let's find ways to show up for

one another this week, right?

845

Decisions are made by those who show up.

846

A great chance to get involved and to

dig a little bit deeper for all of us

847

is CivicsCon, which is coming up April

10th and 11th at Rose State College.

848

Go to civicscon.

849

com.

850

Get your tickets, they're just 25.

851

We're gonna have some big

announcements coming out in the

852

next few days with an agenda.

853

It's gonna be rad.

854

So if you're not on our mailing list

already, please go to letsfixthis.

855

org and sign up.

856

And then go to civicscon.

857

com to get your tickets.

858

Can't wait to see you there.

859

Until then, have a good weekend.