Have you ever wondered what it really takes to move from shallow success to deep, lasting significance? In this episode of Seek Go Create, Tim Winders sits down with entrepreneur and author Harry T. Jones, who opens up about losing a million dollars, surviving a failed marriage, and learning how generosity and faith transformed his approach to business and legacy. Discover why Harry believes anonymous giving breaks the grip of “more,” how struggle refines our purpose, and why every leader should start thinking about succession—even if they’re not ready to let go. This is a raw and insightful conversation about failure, faith, and building a life—and company—that will outlast you.

"The way to break the grip of money is generosity—anonymous generosity." - Harry T. Jones

Access all show and episode resources HERE

About Our Guest:

Harry T. Jones is an accomplished entrepreneur, author, and creator of the Cultivating Impact Succession method. With over four decades of experience in building and leading businesses—including successfully scaling and selling a fresh food distribution company to a public firm—Harry brings deep insight into leadership, faith-driven business, and legacy planning. He is recognized for guiding leaders through challenging seasons of transition, mentoring CEOs, and developing practical strategies for succession planning that go beyond financial success to create lasting impact. Harry’s journey of overcoming personal and professional setbacks has shaped his mission to help others finish well and redefine true success.

Reasons to Listen:

1. Discover how a million-dollar loss, a failed marriage, and a botched business exit became powerful wake-up calls that shifted Harry T. Jones from chasing shallow success to building lasting significance.
2. Learn why anonymous generosity, redefining identity, and facing personal fears are at the heart of Harry’s unique approach to succession planning and legacy.
3. Get an inside look at real-life business impact stories—like hiring second-chance employees and integrating faith into leadership—that reveal how struggle and faith can fundamentally reshape your purpose and your work.

Episode Resources & Action Steps:

Resources Mentioned in the Episode:

1. Book: Succession Planning for Impact: 7 Steps to Build a Significant Life and a Company that Will Outlast You by Harry T. Jones – Practical guide for business owners and leaders on succession planning and legacy.
2. Succession Planning Jumpstart Guide
3. Subscribe to Harry's Weekly Newsletter
4. Website: cultivatingimpact.biz – Harry T. Jones’ site with more information about his masterminds, resources, and ways to connect.

Action Steps for Listeners:

1. Reflect on Your Identity Beyond Work: Take time to journal or contemplate where you draw your sense of worth—is it tied to your job title, or something deeper? Consider what it would look like to root your identity in something more lasting.
2. Embrace Generosity and Gratitude: Break the grip of “more” by practicing anonymous generosity—find a way this week to give anonymously to someone in need. Start a gratitude list to shift focus from scarcity to abundance.
3. Start the Conversation Around Succession Planning: Whether you’re a business owner, leader, or part of a family business, initiate a discussion about long-term legacy and impact. Consider reading Harry’s book or exploring resources at cultivatingimpact.biz to get practical guidance.

Key Lessons:

1. Generosity Breaks the Grip of Mammon: Harry shares that in his experience, the desire for more—whether money or status—can easily take hold. He found that the best way to break free from this is through anonymous generosity, emphasizing the joy of giving rather than accumulating.
2. Identity Beyond Business: Many leaders tie their sense of self-worth to their professional identity. Harry's journey illustrates the importance of evolving beyond just being defined by titles or success, and instead rooting identity in deeper, lasting values—personally, his faith.
3. Failure Can Lead to Significance: Both Harry and Tim discuss how personal and professional setbacks—failed marriages, lost fortunes, business breakdowns—often serve as divine or catalytic wake-up calls. These tough experiences can strip away ego and foster a more meaningful, impactful path.
4. Impact and Significance Over Success: The episode explores how true significance goes beyond financial success. It’s about the lasting impact your business and life have on employees, customers, community, and family—even if no one sees it but you.
5. The Power of Transparent Community: Harry points to the value of mastermind groups and confidential peer communities for business leaders. These environments allow for support, real vulnerability, and collective wisdom—helping leaders navigate challenges, grow, and finish well.

Episode Highlights:

00:00 Breaking the Grip of Mammon

00:36 Introducing Harry T. Jones

01:44 Defining Success and Identity

05:11 Harry's Spiritual Journey

05:59 The Role of Business in Faith

09:24 Overcoming Financial and Personal Struggles

17:12 The Importance of Generosity

22:54 Transitioning from Operator to Mentor

29:04 The Boxing Metaphor and Business Growth

29:29 A New Calling and Leaving the Comfort Zone

30:44 The Journey of Succession Planning

32:45 The Importance of Business Impact

35:50 Succession Planning for All Businesses

47:21 The Role of Masterminds and Mentors

51:05 Final Thoughts and Resources

Resources for Leaders from Tim Winders & SGC:

🎙 Unlock Leadership Excellence with Tim

• Transform your leadership and align your career with your deepest values. Schedule your Free Discovery Call now to explore how you can reach new heights in personal and professional growth. Limited slots available each month – Book your session today!

📚 Redefine Your Success with "Coach: A Story of Success Redefined"

• Challenge your perceptions and embark on a journey toward true fulfillment. Dive into transformative insights with "Coach: A Story of Success Redefined." This book will help you rethink what success means and how to achieve it on your terms. Don't miss out on this essential read—order your copy today!

Thank you for listening to Seek Go Create!

Our podcast is dedicated to empowering Christian leaders, entrepreneurs, and individuals looking to redefine success in their personal and professional lives. Through in-depth interviews, personal anecdotes, and expert advice, we offer valuable insights and actionable strategies for achieving your goals and living a life of purpose and fulfillment.

If you enjoyed this episode and found it helpful, we encourage you to subscribe to or follow Seek Go Create on your favorite podcast platform, including Apple Podcasts, and Spotify. By subscribing, you'll never miss an episode and can stay up-to-date on the latest insights and strategies for success.

Additionally, please share this episode or what you’ve learned today with your friends, family, and colleagues on your favorite social media platform. By sharing our podcast, you can help us reach more people who are looking to align their faith with their work and lead with purpose.

For more updates and episodes, visit our website or follow us on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, X, TikTok and YouTube. We appreciate your support and look forward to helping you achieve your goals and create a life of purpose and fulfillment.

Now, you can tip us, buy us a coffee, or offer financial support. Contributions start at just $1, and if you leave a comment, you could be featured in a future episode!

Visit our Support page for more details.

Mentioned in this episode:

A Final Challenge: Redefine Success with Coach

Before you sign off, here’s a powerful invitation from Tim: If you’ve been inspired by the stories on Seek Go Create, take the next step with his novel, Coach: A Story of Success Redefined. It’s a transformative journey that invites leaders to rethink success and align their lives with faith, purpose, and peace. Get your copy today at TimWinders.com.

Get More Info About Coach

Harry T Jones: I found that money

or mammon, because it goes beyond

2

money, can get a grip on you.

3

And for me and for others that I know.

4

The way to break that grip is generosity.

5

Anonymous generosity.

6

So that's helpful to me is the joy of

giving it away rather than accumulating.

7

Tim Winders: what did losing a million

dollars, a failed marriage and a botched

8

business exit have in common for Harry T.

9

Jones, they were all divine wake up calls.

10

In today's episode, I sit down with Harry,

entrepreneur, author, and creator of the

11

Cultivating Impact succession method about

how struggle can lead to significance.

12

We explore how faith, and legacy collide

in the lives of leaders who are ready to

13

move from shallow success impact, from

walking away from profits, to preserve

14

community jobs, to mentoring leaders

through transition and breakthrough.

15

Harry's journey will challenge the way

you define success and help you finish

16

well, Harry, welcome to Seek, go create.

17

Harry T Jones: Thanks, Tim.

18

It's great to be here.

19

Tim Winders: I am, I'm

excited you're here too.

20

I'm excited.

21

I just wanna give a shout out to our,

our buddy Michael Bear, who connected us.

22

I always know if Michael

tells me to get together with

23

somebody, it's gonna be good.

24

So I'm expecting this to be good.

25

We got a high bar.

26

So, first question, let

me fire away at you.

27

I gave you the choice between

answering what do you do or

28

who are you, would you choose?

29

Go ahead and pick it and answer it.

30

Harry T Jones: who are you?

31

I'm a fallen broken mess.

32

I'm living a life of second and

third chances, and it's taken me 40

33

years to understand that business

can have a powerful impact in the

34

lives of all the people it touches.

35

I've tried to learn through that and I

learn as far as the who you are, you,

36

we learn through the relationships

that we're allowed to be in.

37

Tim Winders: So, something that I

picked up on when I was checking

38

out some of your stuff is I saw

the word identity a few times.

39

I think I told you, that your succession

planning for Impact book I'm about

40

25% in is what my Kindle tells me.

41

So sure I've gotten to some good stuff,

but there's probably a lot more in there.

42

I did see the word identity pop up a

couple times, which kind of feeds into

43

or out of the question I just asked.

44

What's been your journey far as identity

over the course of your I For those

45

that are listening, neither one of

us would be considered young, young

46

dudes for those that might be looking

in, what's been your journey as far as

47

identity over the course of your life?

48

Is that a long story?

49

Harry T Jones: Oh, I started working when

I was six years old and I was rewarded

50

for working and recognized for working,

and I thought I had to work when I.

51

got outta college and I thought

I had to work a hundred hours a

52

week in order to be significant.

53

And we did have a good team.

54

we were in the fresh food

distribution business, and we

55

had a great team of people.

56

We built it up over 20 years,

had an exit to a public company

57

in the eyes of the world.

58

We had it all.

59

It was glorious, a

glorious financial deal.

60

But then I recognized that was

the only identity I had was

61

being CEO of a great business.

62

And I crashed.

63

Nobody knew it.

64

I hit it well.

65

and when I came out of that, I

went and talked to my pastor.

66

I said, bill, I think I'm

being called into the ministry.

67

He said, you are called to be in business

and we need Christians in business.

68

And they go back and get

into another business.

69

So I did and I approached it

differently, recognizing that

70

was not gonna be my identity.

71

My identity over time has evolved

and through some trials has been

72

my identity is in Christ, and it's

a daily struggle to live that.

73

But in our process, we have

a seven step process for

74

succession planning for impact.

75

The first step is confronting your fears,

and those fears tie back to that identity.

76

Often they're three different categories.

77

The first is fear of loss of identity.

78

as business people, we hold our

title and our esteem based on,

79

what we are in the business world.

80

and that's one of the things that

keeps people from doing succession

81

planning, fear of loss of that.

82

Tim Winders: Hmm.

83

there's something you brought up I wanna

circle back to because it seems like it

84

was a few years ago, so you could maybe

tell a little bit more of the story.

85

is it about business people that when

their hearts begin to soften and they

86

begin to maybe get more focused on the

Lord sometimes it's a struggle that

87

causes that, that's what it was for me.

88

Why is it that they think that ministry

or full-time ministry is the answer?

89

When God had called us.

90

your pa I, I appreciate

your pastor being blunt.

91

'cause he could have had you,

you know, sweeping the floors

92

or, working in the parking lot

and maybe he did, I don't know.

93

But, uh, what, what is it about that Mike,

our buddy Mike, we talk about this a lot.

94

You know, what is it that, someone

who's talented in business, makes

95

them think that their impact is going

to be, going and doing something

96

in a full-time ministry world.

97

Harry T Jones: Well, we're in a

better shape today with faith driven

98

investing, faith driven entrepreneur

of the business' mission world, but

99

we're playing catch up with that.

100

Identity and pastors are lauded.

101

Business people are not necessarily.

102

And yet today when we recognize that

there is a purpose for our business, an

103

impact in our business that will go to

the marketplace, it'll go to places that,

104

Tim Winders: I.

105

Harry T Jones: that most people who

don't know Christ will not be going

106

to church, but they're doing business

with someone and it's our opportunity.

107

So I see that the businesses mission

movement, it's such a positive effect.

108

It affects all types of relationships

in positive ways, the way we treat

109

our employees, the way we treat our

customers, the way we treat our vendors.

110

That doesn't mean we have to be soft, but

we have to be, honest, trustworthy, and

111

be prepared to share the hope that lies

within when those opportunities arise.

112

Tim Winders: I mean, 'cause

truthfully, we're probably in our

113

work setting much more than we're

in a church and or ministry setting.

114

And, and I, my observation is that's when

you can really someone's true character,

115

true nature, true integrity or not.

116

were you, I always joke with

people in the south about this,

117

'cause that's where I'm from too.

118

Were, were you a Christian from

birth or did it something you work?

119

What, did you work yourself into it

later that, I know that's bad theology,

120

but, uh, tell me a little bit about

your, your spiritual journey, because I

121

think it relates to your first business

iteration a little bit also probably.

122

Harry T Jones: Well, there's

the talk and the walk.

123

So I was born into a Christian family.

124

We went to church every week and that was

what I considered being a Christian if you

125

went to church, but only through trials.

126

loss of identity a failed

marriage and, financial losses

127

were the hubris, refined away.

128

And I had to be dependent on God.

129

And only when I got to that point

where I had to depend on God

130

did I give my life to Christ?

131

So I was a good Presbyterian for a long

time, and Jesus never gave up on me.

132

He still pursues me

today, the mess that I am.

133

Tim Winders: So one of the things that

I'm always fascinated, I, my, we kind

134

of popped in and outta church, but

you know, growing up in the south, you

135

just kind of are in this, I don't wanna

say church atmosphere, the Bible belt.

136

There's a reason they call

it the Bible Belt, of course.

137

folks like you, I think something that's

intriguing to me is that you grew up

138

in a church family, you went, but my

observation is there's some point along

139

the way where your faith becomes your

own and you're not piggybacking on your

140

parents or relative or something else.

141

you mentioned some failure and

some things like that, but can

142

you gimme some more detail about.

143

Was that an event or a timeframe that

you could recall or a season in your life

144

that you, your faith became your own?

145

And I'm not talking about

a salvation thing here.

146

I'm talking about you owned it.

147

Harry T Jones: Well, it happened while

I was going through divorce and I moved

148

into, a rental house and my kids had gone

back to school and, and I walked into

149

that dark, cold, lonely kitchen late one

evening and something overwhelmed me,

150

and the message was, if you'll just let

me in, you'll never be lonely again.

151

It wasn't Damascus Road,

it was the turning point.

152

And the next steps were

writing a list of my blessings.

153

I can remember where I was making.

154

I had a 300 mile trip and I had my

legal pad on my console and my truck

155

as I drove down the road making a list

of all the things I had to be grateful

156

for, and the next step was getting

out of the self pity and turning

157

outward, and making a prayer list of

all those people who needed prayer.

158

Those people that I knew in my network

who needed prayer worse than me.

159

Tim Winders: Hmm.

160

Harry T Jones: I'm still

a work in progress.

161

Tim Winders: well, isn't it a shame?

162

Harry and I, this is a, I don't have

data for this other than observation

163

and conversations like this.

164

It appears as if.

165

That bright people, business people,

yourself, leaders that are listening

166

in myself that we know when we need

to probably make some changes or

167

adjustments or things like that.

168

However, we rarely do it on our

own, even though we know the steps.

169

We've got the, whatever, you

know, the five steps of this, the

170

seven steps, the, all the stuff.

171

But it usually is some

kind of, significant event.

172

And usually it's a detrimental

event, health challenge,

173

marriage, business failure.

174

For me it was 2008 and becoming

homeless and bankrupt and all of that.

175

But why is it, and I'm sure you've

put a little thought into this.

176

Why is it that we're that way?

177

Because we're not, we're

fairly bright people.

178

Why couldn't we figure out to make

some of these things work ahead

179

of time instead of getting the

proverbial two by four to the forehead?

180

Harry T Jones: Well, I think

it goes back to the fall,

181

Tim Winders: Blame it on the fall.

182

Blame it on in the garden.

183

Good gracious.

184

Harry T Jones: I disqualify

myself as a therapist, but I do

185

occasionally get into conversations.

186

Like today, I was introduced to

someone who was struggling with,

187

their CEO of a fast growing business.

188

I just, we prayed together and

I asked if they were in the

189

word and how they're praying.

190

they told me about a situation.

191

I said, well, what is God teaching

you through this situation?

192

And with that, it all came out.

193

I just say we're all, anybody I

know with any depth is a mess.

194

the groups that we have, we call

them breakthrough groups, Tim, in

195

these groups of seven or eight CEOs,

we have a code of confidentiality.

196

We have a commitment.

197

We're gonna show up every

month and a commitment.

198

We're going to engage and invest more

than we expect to get out through this.

199

And you don't have to be a Christian

to be in our groups, but you're gonna

200

hear from the various members about

their trials, their struggles, their

201

joys, their growth in their faith,

202

Everybody's got some struggles,

they've got something going on.

203

It's more of our response to them.

204

Do we try to handle it by

ourself or we finally reach the

205

point where we let God help us?

206

Tim Winders: Yeah, so it's interesting.

207

So we get to a fall.

208

I wanna circle back 'cause I

wanna have a little bit deeper

209

conversation about mastermind

versus mentoring a little bit later.

210

But, so your journey, if I'm reading

correctly, you went through few.

211

One of the things we don't shy

away from here at Seek, go create,

212

Harry is talking about things that

the world would consider failures.

213

Harry T Jones: Mm-hmm.

214

Tim Winders: most of us, as we

walk through it, look back and

215

go, you know what that was.

216

What started me down this

path to significance because I

217

understand, understood things more.

218

I mean, I look back and go, wow, but

tell me, let's go a little bit deeper

219

into a couple of those situations,

because if I'm reading correctly,

220

you had a few, what we'll call

seven figure, seven figure losses.

221

So I'd love to kind of

know a little bit more.

222

You just mentioned a marriage situation,

which is, which in a, in any situation

223

is challenging, but when you're a

person of faith and there's been a

224

standard that's held up about marriage,

I'm guessing that that probably took

225

a chunk out of your soul probably.

226

But, talk about some of the business,

what the world would call failures.

227

I call it the journey, but let's talk

about those and, share what we could all

228

learn from that you've gleaned from that.

229

Because I believe a lot of us can get

some wisdom from hearing people talk about

230

things that might be not pretty pictures.

231

Harry T Jones: Well, your timing and

232

I had two investments in financial

institutions, both of which I was close.

233

I was practically an insider with

both of 'em, and they melted away.

234

It just showed me how I cannot

depend on both financial assets.

235

Because they can rust, they

can blow away overnight.

236

and I'm, you know, God's

blessed me immensely.

237

I weathered those storms but

it was a real learning and real

238

test and a refinement period.

239

Tim Winders: And one of the

things, this is what I learned.

240

I'm gonna mention this

and then you can respond.

241

I thought I was well grounded and

I think I also had a little bit of,

242

maybe we'll call it.

243

that the Lord I was just blessed and

highly favored in a way that others

244

weren't because I was super smart

and great in business or whatever.

245

But as I've kind of thought and

meditated on it, I've gone back

246

to, you know, the Sermon on the

Mount in the middle of Matthew.

247

Matthew six.

248

Jesus starts launching into

this, you can't serve God and

249

the correct thing is mammon.

250

We insert money, mammon

includes a lot of things.

251

And I realize that part of my business

journey that I was addicted not to

252

money in cars or anything like that.

253

That was a spinoff.

254

was addicted to more.

255

That if I had one company that was

moving along well, I needed to grow it.

256

If I had X employees or revenue,

you know, and if I had one going

257

along, well, I would start another

thing, you know, let grow it.

258

I just had an addiction to more,

and I believe that that is baked

259

into a lot of business people.

260

Do you observe that also?

261

Harry T Jones: Yes, and I can

judge it more about myself.

262

one of the things I did is I took a

course by Kingdom Advisors called Biblical

263

Principles, principles of Financial

Stewardship, and I wanted to learn myself

264

and to teach my family, and I found that

money or mammon, because it goes beyond

265

money, as you said, can get a grip on you.

266

And for me and for others that I know.

267

The way to break that grip is generosity.

268

Anonymous generosity.

269

So that's helpful to me is the joy of

giving it away rather than accumulating.

270

and I've accumulated some plenty

too, but I have the joy of giving.

271

Tim Winders: That's interesting

that you bring that up.

272

'cause you, you know, earlier you talked

about gratitude and how you counted your

273

blessings when you were in a tough time.

274

And generosity and gratitude are, don't,

I don't know that they're siblings.

275

They might be cousins.

276

there's a tie there to those and

I think what it does is it takes.

277

Or for me takes my eyes off myself.

278

but you brought up something

that's key there that I think

279

some people may have missed.

280

'cause you said it kind of

quickly, you said anonymous giving.

281

Talk more about that and why anonymous

giving is important versus, boastful

282

giving, but, anonymous giving.

283

Why did you word, word it that way?

284

Harry T Jones: my wife Holly, and I

believe that we're just entrusted, we're

285

stewards of these resources to handle well

while we're here and they're not our own.

286

So we typically give

anonymously any major gift.

287

we're gonna give anonymously.

288

We don't need credit for it.

289

Tim Winders: but I mean, you've interacted

with other people, you've probably been

290

around some people that are generous,

and I'm not asking you to name names or

291

anything, but they're generous publicly.

292

And, I can look back on my life

and I know there were times that I

293

probably wanted people acknowledge

that I gave you know what I'm saying?

294

It was a little bit of a, don't wanna

say arrogance and all of that, but

295

what do you notice about others and

the way they give, I'm not asking

296

you to throw anybody under the bus or

anything, but that anonymous giving talk.

297

tell me more about that.

298

I'm intrigued by that.

299

Harry T Jones: Well,

each person is different.

300

That's, that's our preference,

is to give anonymously.

301

you can see how important having names

on buildings is for raising money.

302

So it really turns some people

on, but that's not our style.

303

Tim Winders: Right.

304

Okay.

305

so now let's go back to,

alright, you had some struggles

306

in oh eight coming out of that.

307

How did you regain your footing?

308

Gimme some specific, some details.

309

for me it was quite a season.

310

We had bankruptcy,

homelessness, ugly stuff.

311

and the Lord really pruned

me a bit during that process.

312

But financially I look around and

we're better shape than we even were.

313

I'm not asking for, your bank

balances or anything, but give some

314

people hope or some instruction on

how you went through that journey.

315

I think it's important.

316

Harry T Jones: We were diversified

in our investments and, lean

317

on low, low, low to no debt.

318

And, those.

319

Those two things allow you to, to

survive having that financial strength.

320

Matter of fact, that ties

into businesses too often.

321

I'll get called into a business working

sometimes on succession planning,

322

but they are overextended and so I

think we were both diversified in

323

our investments, had income, we had a

good food business that provided us an

324

income, so we, it was investments that

we lost, but we we're low to no debt.

325

Makes a big difference.

326

Tim Winders: I think often people will

underestimate the grip that debt has,

327

and especially those ebbs and flows.

328

I think debt is something that can,

have impact more than just the.

329

Tangible impact.

330

I noticed that it actually

does something to my soul.

331

Harry T Jones: Well, we, you know, I'm

personally debt free, have been for

332

years, but it took a long time to get

there, then became business debt free.

333

So I think it's okay for a business

to have a appropriate levels of debt.

334

but I'm working with a business right now.

335

It's a, apparently a good business, but

it is not generating enough cash flow to

336

fund its capital expenditures and they

are continuously strapped and they don't

337

have the cushion to survive a major blow.

338

So debt can be used appropriately

in business, but I believe

339

in zero personal debt today.

340

Tim Winders: Yeah, I'm a big fan of

that and I can't say that I always was.

341

I think that was one of the lessons that

the Lord, wanted me to gain because one

342

of the things that I kept doing is I kept

thinking that I'm so awesome that I could

343

spend money that hasn't come in yet.

344

that's a bad formula.

345

so are you still actively involved with

your current businesses or have you

346

moved more into a sharing teaching,

mastermind mentoring business?

347

I know you've got your book, we're gonna

talk about that in a little while, but

348

what's your daily, monthly rhythm now?

349

Are you in business or are you sort

of moving in another direction?

350

Harry T Jones: Well, let's say my

wife thinks I work a full schedule

351

Tim Winders: I.

352

Harry T Jones: But I pick and choose.

353

when I work, I love what I'm doing.

354

And today, so in each year at New Year's,

Holly and I get together and look at our

355

coming year, we celebrate our anniversary.

356

Matter of fact, we're about to

celebrate our 15th wedding anniversary.

357

and I do a reset and our actually

taking our groups to Thomasville.

358

in October to go through this process

of writing your obituary and epitaph

359

and 10, five and one year vision.

360

And this year I realized that I

had accumulated a lot of things.

361

I needed to get rid of some

things so I could do better.

362

So I said I'm only gonna do three things.

363

I'm answering your question about

how I'm spending my time today.

364

Or January the first.

365

I cut it to three things.

366

I wanted to grow gr deeper in

my relationships with Jesus and

367

my wife and those closest to me.

368

Secondly, I wanna be a good steward

of the resources that are entrusted.

369

So I spend time with, investments,

space driven investments.

370

I'm involved with several

businesses, but I'm not operating

371

any business on a day-to-day basis.

372

And the third area.

373

So, relationships, stewardship,

and engaging with entrepreneurs.

374

And that's where a lot

of my time is spent.

375

So tomorrow I'll have calls with

four of the members of our group.

376

We meet monthly, online.

377

Both groups are international.

378

Have four time zones represented

in each, and then I'll have a

379

one-on-one with any member that

wants to meet in between meetings.

380

So that involves some time.

381

And then I just get calls.

382

Somebody knows.

383

And they'll call me and say, Hey,

my sister's having a struggle with

384

their business, or my brother's

thinking about going into a new job.

385

Would you be willing to talk to him?

386

So I get those calls every

week, and I'm so honored.

387

Somebody wants to talk to me and

learn about my cuts and bruises.

388

Tim Winders: But isn't that how you learn?

389

Isn't that how you gain wisdom by

messing up and making those mistakes?

390

Harry T Jones: I've started

drafting a book called Learning

391

Lessons and the intro is.

392

When I had an accident when I was

15, and I had one when I was 16,

393

and my father said, you didn't learn

the first time, so we should learn

394

our lessons the first time around.

395

I'm a little slow sometimes, but if

we embrace our experiences, our good

396

and our bad, we can grow through

life and our life become richer.

397

I've observed, and I hope that I'm on

the latter part, through life, people

398

become either more bitter or sweeter,

some say bitter or better, and it's

399

our response to these consequences and

these circumstances that determines

400

whether we're more bitter or sweeter.

401

Tim Winders: Harry, what

you, we talked identity and.

402

Whittled some things away, I

guess, from what you're doing.

403

And part of that is you're not

really in an operator role anymore.

404

A, as you transitioned, I don't know

if it was abrupt or if it was a gradual

405

over time as you transitioned away from

that, we'll call it an operator role.

406

I think people will know what we're

talking about, you know, where you're

407

hands on doing things in business.

408

Did it impact your identity at

all as you moved away from it?

409

Obviously you had done that years

ago when you made some changes,

410

then you've cycled back in.

411

me about what it was like this last time

as you moved away from being an operator

412

Harry T Jones: It was unplanned.

413

Tim Winders: again.

414

Harry T Jones: I went to Central

415

veteran businesses mission guys.

416

Some of your listeners

may know Hans and Gary.

417

There were six of us total.

418

We spent 14 days in three countries

that end in STAN, and I saw their

419

Christians in business where they

could not pray or quote scripture,

420

but they treated their employees well.

421

They loved their customers.

422

they paid their taxes

and did not pay bribes.

423

And I came back and I talked to

my pastor and I said, Tim, I have

424

squandered 41 years of being in

business by failing to live my faith.

425

and he said, before you beat yourself

up, what are you doing in your

426

business to demonstrate Christ and

double down on it was so clear.

427

My business partner, 21 years,

Randy Harvey grew up tough.

428

we built a great business.

429

He ran the business.

430

I tried to stay out of his way.

431

Randy would hire people

that nobody else would hire.

432

He'd hire 'em outta jail, he'd

hire 'em out of drug rehab.

433

There are times when people

just have a streak of bad luck.

434

he'd give them a chance and

it often doesn't work out.

435

We use the boxing metaphor.

436

He would wipe their face and

stitch up to cut over their eye

437

and he'd put 'em back in the ring.

438

When it works, they make

you a valuable employee.

439

That was the impact that made our

business worth growing and continuing.

440

So I started working, getting

involved with other businesses.

441

We started a business incubator

for the underestimated in our town.

442

And in 2020, God was stirring in my heart

and Holly and I went to the mountains

443

that spring ring brought two weeks

sabbatical and we'd pray together and

444

we'd spend time apart and back together.

445

And I finished a course by Darren

Sheer called Theology of Business,

446

and here it became so clear to me.

447

I was supposed to leave,

I was in my comfort zone.

448

I thought I'd be there

the rest of my life.

449

We used to laugh about my being 90

and being able to roll my wheelchair

450

in the floor level entrance,

the parking lot level entrance.

451

And I went back and told my

partners, Randy, who we'd met with

452

21 years, and I'd recruited my

successor, who was 30 years younger.

453

And I said, guys, I need to meet with you.

454

He said, I'm giving you 12 months notice.

455

I love you, but I'm leaving.

456

I don't know what I'm gonna be doing,

but I'm supposed to be leaving here.

457

And the next day they

said, can we get together?

458

I said, yeah.

459

Said, can we buy you out?

460

I said, I think that's a great idea.

461

And we had a buy sell agreement.

462

So I was gone in six months but I

did not know what I was gonna do.

463

I have, again, I just mentioned earlier,

I'm an accumulator and, one of the

464

things I have accumulated is farms.

465

And so I worked at the farms around

the state and that took a few

466

days and, I just started praying

about it and writing stories.

467

I'd been wanting to catch up on my stories

and I started writing about my screw ups.

468

And a few months later I started sending

these stories out to everybody on my

469

email list, and that went on for a couple

of years and gave me something to do.

470

And, when I started writing

about succession planning,

471

man, it really hit a nerve.

472

And so that's where my focus became,

was succession planning for impact.

473

Wrote the book and now I'm

practicing with these groups.

474

I did not plan to leave there, but

we had a plan in place so that if

475

somebody chose to leave, there was a

buy sell agreement for them to leave.

476

Tim Winders: Well, it sounds

like it was a bit of a journey.

477

I mean, it started when you

were Gary, with Gary, probably

478

Gary Christopher, I'm guessing.

479

Is that who it was?

480

somebody else.

481

Anyway, so you were over, so you were,

you know, traveling and there was a

482

seed planted and then you came back.

483

Probably the Lord had

been working with you.

484

And if I'm hearing the timeframe right, it

485

when were really starting to happen.

486

Some odd things in the

world were going on too.

487

Harry T Jones: yeah.

488

Tim Winders: it got a

lot of people thinking.

489

I think, you know, all of us

were probably going, you know.

490

What's my purpose?

491

Why am I here?

492

You, you know, not that I

think we were living in fear.

493

Some people were, I mean, there was

some, you know, pandemic and things going

494

on, but it kind of got people thinking.

495

And so, and, and it seems as if

you were sort of down a path in a

496

divine way you were just in tune

with what you were doing and sharing.

497

And the Lord sort of opened up doors.

498

What do you think makes

you uniquely qualified?

499

Had somebody ask me this once

and I didn't have a good answer.

500

I hope your answer's better.

501

qualified to speak and talk and work

with people on succession planning.

502

Harry T Jones: I have the experience of

succession planning well and not so well.

503

I have the experience of selling for

financial reasons, and I have the

504

experience of building something to

carry on for the partners to carry on.

505

I had the experience

of working with family.

506

We went through three rounds of

family buyouts in my first business.

507

That was tough I did not

wanna be in a family business.

508

I agreed to be in a management

owned business, and we all get

509

along fine now, but it was tough

510

Tim Winders: Right.

511

and I love that you started writing

and then you just noticed and

512

observed are responding to this.

513

Why is that topic so important?

514

Harry T Jones: Well, 70% of all

businesses never make it to the

515

second generation of leadership.

516

And often it is because the CEO or

founder fails to initiate the process.

517

unfortunately we lose a lot of

businesses that are good businesses

518

with some planning could be carried on.

519

And our ideal client is a founder or CEO.

520

Who recognizes they have an impact through

their business that's worth carrying on.

521

They don't want to hang up their spurs.

522

And that role is something that

where it may be in the business

523

or it may be in a new platform.

524

But it's a way for them to continue to

be engaged and have an impact taking

525

all their experiences and relationships

and gifts and talents that they've been

526

blessed with, and use it in some type

of, of positive influence, positive ways.

527

And, you know, if you look at businesses

and their impact, a question in the

528

book, it has discussion questions at

the end of each of the seven chapters.

529

And one on step three on impact

is, so why don't we go ahead and

530

wind your business down in 90 days?

531

Why would that be bad?

532

What would the consequences be?

533

How would that affect your family

and your employees and your

534

customers and your community?

535

What would happen to the leaders

that you provided to the community?

536

All that would be gone,

and it happens every day.

537

So that's our joy is seeing people

embrace this concept and making a

538

commitment to move their business

forward for someone else or another

539

group of people to carry it on.

540

And it doesn't have to be family.

541

that's another fallacy.

542

So.

543

Tim Winders: Right.

544

So you kind of mentioned ideal

client, and I'm sure there's all

545

kinda variables and things like that.

546

I think this is actually a bit of a myth.

547

Maybe you could either bust it up or

affirm it many people think that this

548

is for the wealthy for, the people

that are in extreme wealth situations.

549

I don't agree that I don't adhere to that.

550

in fact, I think it's powerful for

people at all stages to consider this.

551

But how would you respond to

someone if they say, you know,

552

oh, that's just for rich people.

553

I don't need to consider that.

554

I've just got a, business

Just respond to that.

555

This is just for wealthy people.

556

Harry T Jones: it is for all stages and

all phases of businesses and their owners.

557

one of the things that's been surprising

is we have some professional groups that

558

we work with where there may be a smaller

number of highly qualified professionals

559

who also have contract people and they are

building teams to carry on that business.

560

That has been a surprise to me.

561

one of the best businesses I've seen.

562

One of the most lucrative businesses

I've seen only had five employees.

563

And I won't go into details on what

it was, but it was a great business.

564

So it does not have to be a great

big business to be worth continuing.

565

And when you add up the impact

of contractors and vendors.

566

A small business can have a

lot of impact on many lives.

567

You know, we work with businesses

with hundreds employee also.

568

That doesn't even necessarily

mean that they're wealthy.

569

That just means they have a lot of

employees, but do they have an impact

570

that makes it worth continuing?

571

so yeah, a range of people we worked with.

572

And, you know, listen, Tim, if you or one

of your readers says, I wanna put somebody

573

in touch with you, give me a referral,

I'll talk to anybody and just to see if

574

I might encourage them in a direction.

575

you know, one of the things that

I think each of us are gifted

576

uniquely in being able to discover.

577

What makes us where we thrive,

is a process that a, a friend of

578

mine, Don Ankin Brandt, wrote a

book about, it's called the two

579

10 Project two one oh project.com.

580

And when you recognize your spiritual

gifts and you can stay in those

581

islands of strength, that's where

God, that's where God wants you.

582

He delights in seeing us flourish

where he has give us experiences and,

583

and, and talents and, and spiritual

gifts to use for, for His glory.

584

He wants us to delight in that.

585

That doesn't mean we can only do

those three, those things, but

586

you know, for me it's generosity

and hospitality and encouragement.

587

And when I stay in those

areas, I'm thriving.

588

Tim Winders: One of the words that I saw

a good bit when I was kind of reading

589

through is the word impact, and I think

that word is, I don't wanna say it's an

590

odd word, but I think that words thrown

around good bit and what I've observed is

591

that a lot of people are craving impact.

592

there's a lot of people that are

probably having an impact and

593

they don't even recognize it.

594

I'm guessing you see maybe a little bit

of both talk about the word impact and

595

maybe gimme some examples of, businesses.

596

'cause I think there's some business

owners that's probably listening in that

597

they may not realize amount of impact

that they have, all the way in their

598

communities, their towns, whatever.

599

Just talk about some examples

you've seen of some big impact

600

that people may not realize.

601

Harry T Jones: One of my favorite

stories about my buddy Gil.

602

Gil got up in the middle of the night.

603

He was trying to sort

through some problems.

604

Two 30 in the morning pulls in

the parking lot of his business.

605

There's a car running in the

parking lot and his business.

606

he calls the police and they arrive.

607

It is Cynthia, one of his newer employees

who has been sleeping in her car.

608

She'd come back every night

after everybody left 'cause

609

that was the only safe place.

610

And she confesses that she's homeless.

611

Her husband died and

she's, she's homeless.

612

So Gil helps Cynthia find a furnished

apartment where she can pay by the week.

613

He goes to the supermarket with her to

help her buy affordable, nutritious foods.

614

Helped her repair the tire on her.

615

And with the agreement that

she would develop a budget.

616

three weeks later, he was

walking through the plant.

617

this is several hundred employees

in this business, and, he does

618

management by walking around.

619

what he realized was that she

hadn't given him budget and she

620

got a budget with a tithe for the

company in, Helping Hands fund.

621

What he realized was he had segregated

his faith from his business.

622

It dawned on him the purpose for

him being in business was caring

623

for his people, and that integrated

his faith and his business.

624

It put it all together for him.

625

Now, he has a group of people, a

group of his employees who administer

626

the Helping Hands Fund to do.

627

Mostly zero interest loans, but

sometimes they'll just give somebody a

628

check to pay for a doctor or whatever.

629

his purpose is caring for his people.

630

In order to care for their

people, they must make a profit.

631

They must hold people accountable.

632

They must provide excellence

to their customers.

633

They must provide great

value to their customers.

634

They have to pay their bills on

time, all so that they can achieve

635

their calling, their impact,

which is caring for our people.

636

Tim Winders: and you know, I think

some people believe that impact is,

637

some big world stage type situation,

or getting on a plane and traveling

638

to the other side of the world and

ministering or interacting or sharing

639

the gospel when that you described was

right in front of him the whole time.

640

Correct.

641

Harry T Jones: Yes.

642

And recognizing that, kinda like with

Randy Hart recognized the purpose

643

for Blackberry Patch was providing

employment to people, others had rejected.

644

Once you recognize what the impact

of the business is, you have a reason

645

to get up and go in the morning.

646

You have a reason to grow that

business beyond just your financial

647

rewards, and it carries through

to the culture of your people.

648

Tim Winders: Hmm.

649

there, so, so there's another big word

called significance, and I, and I kind

650

of saw where you were sort of, comparing,

contrasting possibly success versus.

651

Significance.

652

So a lot of people that are in the

business world, and maybe even in

653

ministry too, we've got people that

listen in and that are in ministry,

654

but let's just say business, they,

they look at success and it usually

655

has some dollars with it and maybe some

size and scope of business, but, but

656

significance may or may not tie into that.

657

Talk about both of those words.

658

Compare them or, or, or whatever.

659

I'm sure you've seen a lot of it in your

life and you probably see it a lot with

660

some of the people you interact with.

661

So success versus significance.

662

Harry T Jones: I first

saw the delineation.

663

In the book Halftime by Bob

Buford, and it helped me recognize

664

I needed to make a pivot.

665

It took me a long time to work through

that, but that's where I first saw this.

666

And it's really, are you going to

fulfill the expectations of the

667

world or are you gonna do what

you're called to do here on earth?

668

And that's where the success

versus cigarette, the measurement

669

of the world is money and fame.

670

And I enjoyed that and I, you

know, still flirt with it.

671

But the significance, it may

be one life that you affect.

672

It may be that people don't even know what

you're doing, but you're working to help

673

somebody make a difference in their life.

674

through interacting with

business owners today.

675

Hopefully there's a, cross

fertilization of ideas and how

676

people are making an impact.

677

One of the things about the significance

is you may not be expected or your

678

business may have a unique impact.

679

That, and, and, and sense of

significance through that impact.

680

That's not just like everybody

else, and so don't get caught

681

up on following somebody else.

682

You may have a significance

that you hadn't recognized.

683

Just need to recognize it and pursue it.

684

Tim Winders: Yeah, that is good.

685

how, and this could be a trick

question, I'm not sure 'cause I'm not

686

sure how I would answer it, but is it

possible to measure or are significant.

687

Harry T Jones: Yes.

688

I'm gonna answer this in, in

quantitative and qualitative.

689

Quantitative.

690

I volunteer with an organization

that invests in Christian

691

entrepreneurs around the world.

692

And with every loan application

there is a Kingdom impact

693

assessment considered equally you

have to achieve in both of them.

694

that Kingdom Impact assessment is

used along with the financial results

695

to measure by the mentors of that

business, how they are progressing.

696

so you have a scale of like one

to five and you try to encourage

697

people to move along the spectrum

in each of these areas of kingdom

698

impact that they're being measured.

699

Now there's a really

wise guy named Al Capna.

700

He's in the printing business in

Ohio, and I heard him speak and they

701

were talking about, he was on a panel

and they were talking about metrics

702

and He said, why don't you try this?

703

Why don't you try, in

your weekly meetings,

704

ask your leadership, where have you seen

God at work in your business this week?

705

how has God working in the

lives of those people that are

706

interacting with your company?

707

So that may be a more qualitative

measurement to get us thinking

708

about the intentionality of our

business rather than just a rubric.

709

Tim Winders: Yeah.

710

I like that.

711

And I think one of the things maybe we

need to do also is change our paradigms

712

to metrics that aren't as, I don't wanna

say even tangible, they're just different.

713

They're different than the metrics that

we've used to measure other things.

714

One of the things, and I'm kind of

watching my time here, but one of

715

the things that I love about what

you've done is you've migrated from

716

who was doing, we were joking before

we kind of hit record that I was.

717

Coach, mentor, coach, leader,

mastermind, and all for a while.

718

But then now I'm a COO and I'm actually

doing work again, which you, I joke

719

you, you actually don't do work,

but I don't think that's the case.

720

It's just different.

721

You now are running masterminds and

I've got an article pulled up here

722

that, you have here that's four signs.

723

You need a mastermind, not just

a mentor, so you're contrasting

724

mastermind and mentor.

725

Some people don't understand mastermind,

some people don't understand mentors

726

either, but talk about those two

and contrast why you might need

727

a mastermind, not just a mentor.

728

Harry T Jones: Great question, Tim.

729

I'm in a mentoring role with

four businesses internationally

730

in clearly defined that way.

731

And as a, putting the article, having

a mentor, like having a flashlight

732

to get you along the path, having

a breakthrough group or mastermind

733

is helping you build a new path or

a new road to where you want to go.

734

what we've observed in these

breakthrough groups is.

735

each person identifies at least

one desired breakthrough they want

736

to achieve, and then we focus the

group on that desired breakthrough.

737

The reason it works is these people

are committed to help one another, and

738

typically the answers lie within the

individual, not within the other members.

739

But it's the wisdom and experience

of the group members in asking the

740

questions to help clear the fog so the

answers become clear to the individual.

741

And shared experiences can help do that.

742

having one thing to focus on.

743

Now, several members have, you know, often

as entrepreneurs, they'll have several

744

different desire, praise, but having

one thing that they want to accomplish.

745

Really crystallizes the way the other

members can rally around and help 'em.

746

the sauce is the attitude.

747

We only take about half the people

who apply to our groups, and we

748

want them committed to investing

in other people to help others.

749

And if they're not there,

the sauce doesn't work.

750

Tim Winders: Well, I

think that's powerful.

751

You have to get the right

people around the table.

752

They have to have the right

heart, the right mindset.

753

But to me seems to be, and I've actually

studied this some too, something

754

quite biblical about getting 8, 10, 12

people around a table having them, you

755

know, not necessarily focus entirely

on themselves, they gain from it.

756

I think there's some scriptural

foundation to that too.

757

Would that be correct?

758

Harry T Jones: Yes.

759

and their lives are richer as

a result of this engagement.

760

I have a number of friends who

are involved as chairs of C

761

12 and Convene and other peer

advisories that are really good.

762

Our work is a little different.

763

Our work starts with succession

planning for impact, but we are

764

now working through the process.

765

We thought it was gonna

go for seven months.

766

First group went after seven months,

they said, no, we don't wanna stop.

767

We want to keep going.

768

So we now have years worth of curriculum,

and we get the members to provide input

769

at this retreat we're having this fall.

770

we will go through these exercises

and it's gonna bring on new resources.

771

It's gonna bring on new topics.

772

So we're excited about having

people come together face-to-face.

773

Tim Winders: That's good.

774

You mentioned earlier that you started

writing some articles and that led to

775

your book succession Planning for Impact,

seven Steps to Build a Significant Life

776

and a Company that Will Outlast you.

777

Tell me about the book real quick

and where people can find it and

778

I wanna mention a couple other

things before we finish up here.

779

Harry T Jones: It's easy to go to Amazon.

780

you can go to my website and buy.

781

But it's just gonna direct

you to Amazon it is 20 bucks.

782

our experience is people will

take that and do part of it.

783

if you've got questions, reach out to us.

784

We'll be glad to.

785

I'm in the middle of a

second book right now.

786

It's gonna be a workbook format

to be ready this fall as planned

787

that it'll have checklists and

discussion questions, key points.

788

it all starts with conversations and

in succession planning for impact.

789

The book in the seven chapters, covering

the seven steps there, at the end of each

790

chapter, there are discussion questions

791

The conversation going.

792

Founders often don't like to

talk about succession planning.

793

We give you some, we give you some

suggestions, and yeah, we do have a,

794

a, a weekly email that we put out.

795

You can go to a website and subscribe

to the email as a private email list.

796

Be glad to add it to you, if you want,

there's a connection tab on our website.

797

Just put in there, you're a friend of Tim

Winders and I, I'll be glad, we'll set

798

up a call to, to, hear you out and see if

we can direct you in a way that we might

799

have run across what you're facing today.

800

Tim Winders: So who's the book for?

801

The person that's listening in that

says, you know, you need to get this.

802

Who would it be for?

803

Harry T Jones: I thought it was for

founders and CEOs, Jim, but about half

804

of our engagement comes from people

in the next generation saying, how

805

do we get him just to talk about it?

806

how can we get him to turn over the reins?

807

So it's for those people.

808

Both the founders and CEOs who have

not yet recognized they need to develop

809

a plan, and it's for those people

on their team or in their family

810

who want some ways to engage the

founder or CEO in these discussions.

811

ideally the impact of the business

will continue and the founder or CEO

812

will be elevated where they flourish.

813

They'll have a place, but in

the handoff, we also stress to

814

'em handoff at maximum speed.

815

You've gotta have a clean handoff,

firmly let go and firmly receive.

816

Stay in your lane, get out of the

way, and cheer on the next runner.

817

Tim Winders: Hmm.

818

good.

819

That's good.

820

Final, message there.

821

If someone wants to get more info,

you've already mentioned the book.

822

They could go to Amazon, but if they

want to check out these, you know,

823

breakthrough Masterminds and things

like that, where do they need to go?

824

Go ahead and say it.

825

We'll include links.

826

I've got your website

pulled up here, but go ahead

827

Harry T Jones: Yeah,

828

Tim Winders: let people know that might

just be listening in on the audio.

829

Harry T Jones: cultivating impact.bz

830

biz, and the background on that is

the delineation between creation.

831

We're not creating anything.

832

We're taking what's already been created

and making it better, cultivating it.

833

So cultivating impact biz.

834

Tim Winders: Very nice.

835

We'll include that down in the links

and, man, I appreciate you, Harry.

836

I enjoyed this conversation

and, I recommend, I'm gonna hold

837

it up here that's on my Kindle

succession planning for Impact.

838

is the book kind of hard to see

there, but for those that might

839

be watching in on YouTube, seven

steps to build a Significant Life

840

in a company that will outlast you.

841

I've seen this too.

842

I recommend, at all and various

places for people to begin

843

thinking about succession planning.

844

May not be business or company and

all that, but we're here for leaders.

845

And so, I recommend that

leaders be thinking that.

846

I appreciate this conversation.

847

Been a great conversation.

848

We are seek go create here.

849

Every week we're on YouTube, we're

on all the podcast platforms.

850

are just growing like

gangbusters over on YouTube.

851

It's very exciting.

852

Thank you for all of that.

853

And so we appreciate you and we'll

see everyone next week here at Seek.

854

Go Create.

855

Thanks for joining us.