Download Fairplay Exchange now at https://www.fairplayexchange.co.uk and use code GLU for a special bonus!

Guest: Billy Gowing, Fair Play Exchange.

Fair Play Exchange is a betting app that allows friends to place bets and settle payments online. The app was created to solve the problem of friends not carrying cash for bets. The initial target market for Fair Play Exchange was golfers, as golf has a strong betting culture. However, the app has expanded to include other sports and activities. Obtaining a gambling license and a bank account were major challenges for the company. Building trust and providing excellent customer service are key priorities for Fair Play Exchange. The app aims to create a community of users who can bet and have fun with their friends.

Takeaways

• Fair Play Exchange was created to solve the problem of friends not carrying cash for bets.
• The initial target market for Fair Play Exchange was golfers, but the app has expanded to include other sports and activities.
• Obtaining a gambling license and a bank account were major challenges for the company.
• Building trust and providing excellent customer service are key priorities for Fair Play Exchange.
• The app aims to create a community of users who can bet and have fun with their friends.

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction and Problem Statement
• 01:24 How Fair Play Exchange Was Created
• 03:53 Target Market and User Base
• 06:29 Challenges in Obtaining Gambling License
• 09:03 Initial Target Market: Golfers
• 10:28 Expanding to Other Sports and Activities
• 13:51 Future Features: Sweepstakes
• 16:36 Community Building and User Acquisition
• 18:08 Challenges in Obtaining a Bank Account
• 19:54 Building Trust and Providing Excellent Customer Service
• 21:28 Importance of Onboarding and User Engagement
• 25:20 Creating Community through Golf Events
• 26:31 Promo Code and User Incentives
• 28:25 Conclusion and Call to Action

Golf Lovers United Fanzone!

Fan of the show? Get involved even more by visiting our fanzone, with a range of membership and support options to bring you even closer to the action and to give you chance to have your say on the show!

Vist the fanzone now: https://www.glugc.com/support

--

Thanks to our current GLU Brand Ambassadors:

• LIV Golf Forecasting - https://www.twitter.com/LIVGolf54
• Red Harrington - https://www.twitter.com/RedHarrington44
• Kevin Dignan - https://www.twitter.com/VivaLa54
• Andy Moore - https://www.twitter.com/AndyFreelance1
• Padmini Krishnan - https://www.twitter.com/YoungPadawan051
• Charles Barnes - https://www.teetimes.pub

Thanks to our current GLU Golf Lovers:

• Lisa Lamagna - https://www.twitter.com/LisaLamagna

--

If you like the show, remember to tell your golf-loving friends that they can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and at https://www.glugc.com.

The easiest way to do all of that is at https://www.glugc.com/listen.

If you want to support the show, we appreciate you and you can do that at https://www.glugc.com/support.

Golf Lovers United is produced by Mark (@MrAsquith), Ben (@GolfLoverUK) and J (@ProGolfCritic) every week.

Mentioned in this episode:

The weekly golf recap newsletter that you need

Being a golf lover is always a balancing act between the sport and real life. If you love the game and want to stay up-to-date with everything from the world of golf, you need to be reading the weekly golf news roundup, Tee Times. Sign up now for free!

Tee Times

Speaker: 00:00:03

Well, I'm Ben, Golf Lover UK, as you all

recognise my dulcet, slightly Bristolian

2

: 00:00:09

tones, and I'm joined by a very different

accent from the right the other side of

3

: 00:00:14

the country, Mr.

4

: 00:00:15

Billy Gowing.

5

: 00:00:16

Billy, welcome.

6

: 00:00:18

Thanks, Ben.

7

: 00:00:19

Thanks for having me on.

8

: 00:00:21

And for those that don't know Billy, who

might not know Billy, you probably will

9

: 00:00:25

have heard of his, his betting app, which

is Fair Play exchange.

10

: 00:00:29

Um, I was promoting it the other day on

one of my putting videos and what happened

11

: 00:00:33

was how it came about.

12

: 00:00:34

I found it.

13

: 00:00:35

So I literally sat in the bar, my mates,

and I was sick and fed up of us all

14

: 00:00:40

saying, let's put a fiver in, let's put a

tenner in, and there's always two people

15

: 00:00:43

that don't have any cash in them.

16

: 00:00:44

I'm not getting into the politics of

cashless society.

17

: 00:00:47

That's not for today's episode.

18

: 00:00:48

That's another day.

19

: 00:00:50

Let's not get into naming your friends

either, mate.

20

: 00:00:52

Let's not get, we don't want to go down a

slippery slope here, do we?

21

: 00:00:55

Do you know what I mean?

22

: 00:00:55

You need to keep your friends.

23

: 00:00:57

Ha ha ha.

24

: 00:00:58

but both friends and people don't often

have money on them.

25

: 00:01:01

And I said, I just wish there was a way of

doing this online rather than, and then

26

: 00:01:05

literally my friends said to me, well, if

you heard about this thing, this new

27

: 00:01:08

thing, he said, I've not looked at it, but

apparently mates can place bets.

28

: 00:01:12

And that's how I found Fair Play Exchange

and me being me, I reached out to Billy to

29

: 00:01:15

find out more.

30

: 00:01:16

So Billy, thank you for solving my problem

and tell us how did it come about?

31

: 00:01:21

Why did you solve this problem?

32

: 00:01:23

How did your-

33

: 00:01:24

Vision become what has now become a quite

successful fast growing betting app

34

: 00:01:31

Cheers Ben.

35

: 00:01:33

Pretty much similar scenario to what you

guys had in the pub.

36

: 00:01:36

So we played a lot of golf, me and my

mates, big group of us, local swindle,

37

: 00:01:43

club we're all a member at.

38

: 00:01:44

And every Saturday there'd be a usual

game, about 20 odd players going out and

39

: 00:01:52

we'd have a wage on it.

40

: 00:01:54

Tenors in the middle and then we'd split

it up between the winner, second place,

41

: 00:01:58

third.

42

: 00:01:59

fivers for par threes and loads of side

games going on.

43

: 00:02:04

And every week we'd be going around trying

to organize, collecting the money, half of

44

: 00:02:09

the group never had cash.

45

: 00:02:11

And it just sort of rendered the whole bet

and wages completely void because there

46

: 00:02:18

just wasn't enough money in the pot to go

around.

47

: 00:02:20

And me and my two of my best friends at

the time, we was playing together and we

48

: 00:02:25

just said, there must be an app online

that does this.

49

: 00:02:29

And no and behold, there wasn't.

50

: 00:02:31

So we went away and started sort of

brainstorming how this would work.

51

: 00:02:35

And it was just, you know, we, we liked to

have a bet on anything, whether it's, you

52

: 00:02:39

know, going to snooker, going to darts,

sitting in the pub and silly bets.

53

: 00:02:44

Um, and yeah, that's where it all came

from really.

54

: 00:02:47

Just group pals, trying to get bets on

with their mates and no one ever carrying

55

: 00:02:52

cash.

56

: 00:02:54

Mate, that is...

57

: 00:02:57

No, man, it's huge.

58

: 00:02:59

Yeah, like the idea that you can quite

literally bet on anything, because what

59

: 00:03:06

fascinates me about startups like this is

that they can sound, you know, if it's not

60

: 00:03:11

pitched right, if it's not dialed in terms

of the branding and if you've not nailed

61

: 00:03:16

the name down, something so simple can

almost sound a little bit trite.

62

: 00:03:21

It can sound a little bit, wow.

63

: 00:03:23

what's the point in that?

64

: 00:03:24

But actually, the way that you've

positioned it, the way that you've named

65

: 00:03:28

it, the way that you've put the fair play

word in there, it's really interesting

66

: 00:03:34

positioning because you know you can just

go and get smashed down the pub and have a

67

: 00:03:38

laugh.

68

: 00:03:38

You can bet on anything.

69

: 00:03:39

We can do the most BMX flips.

70

: 00:03:41

You can have a bet on that, but you can

also see this like at the club.

71

: 00:03:44

You can see it at your golf club.

72

: 00:03:45

You can see comps being run on this, side

bets being run, society's being run on

73

: 00:03:49

this sort of stuff.

74

: 00:03:50

So how's the reception being

75

: 00:03:53

across the board, like what type of people

you're attracting with this product.

76

: 00:03:58

Yeah, I mean so I think we were conscious

numbers the other day and 75% of our

77

: 00:04:04

activities been based around golf.

78

: 00:04:06

I mean you guys know there's big I'd say

gambling culture around golf, but you

79

: 00:04:12

know, it's more having that bragging

rights where it's not necessarily about

80

: 00:04:15

winning a fiver But you want to win your

mates fiver you want to take that money

81

: 00:04:19

off your power and it's that bragging

rights and kind of It goes hand in hand

82

: 00:04:23

with golf.

83

: 00:04:23

Right?

84

: 00:04:24

So yeah, we see quite a bit

85

: 00:04:26

of our bulk in golf.

86

: 00:04:29

We've seen quite a lot of fantasy football

bets.

87

: 00:04:30

So you know, you start with fantasy league

season, you've got 20 year mates and

88

: 00:04:35

you'll say, let's put a tenner in, end of

the season, winner takes all, nobody ever

89

: 00:04:39

pays up.

90

: 00:04:40

And again, it's that same scenario where

you're not getting the money out.

91

: 00:04:45

So we've seen quite a lot of fantasy

groups and sort of weekly fantasy bets as

92

: 00:04:49

well.

93

: 00:04:50

And obviously you see, you know...

94

: 00:04:51

Arsenal and Tottenham fans saying who's

going to finish above each other and stuff

95

: 00:04:55

like that.

96

: 00:04:55

So there's a lot of one-upmanship against

your mates on the app.

97

: 00:05:00

I think what's interesting there, and I

want to, for people who might not quite

98

: 00:05:03

understand how this works, let's just run

through the idea.

99

: 00:05:07

So the idea being, let's you, Mark and I,

we've all got, ignore golf in a minute,

100

: 00:05:11

which is easier to understand.

101

: 00:05:13

You, Mark and I, we've got three fancy

football teams.

102

: 00:05:16

We want to place a 50-quid bet each to see

who's going to finish the highest.

103

: 00:05:20

We go into the app.

104

: 00:05:21

We create the market and the competition.

105

: 00:05:23

So we'd create a Ben, Billy and Mark

fantasy football league.

106

: 00:05:29

We select the three people that are going

to take part.

107

: 00:05:32

We select the stake and how much the

winner gets.

108

: 00:05:35

And you just create the part yourself.

109

: 00:05:39

Yeah, so I mean, simplest way to put it is

it's just a communal wallet to replace

110

: 00:05:44

cash betting.

111

: 00:05:44

So the app holds the money in there for

you.

112

: 00:05:47

And then at the end of the season, Ben

wins and we just administer the money over

113

: 00:05:52

to your account and you can withdraw it

just like a normal betting account.

114

: 00:05:56

It's interesting.

115

: 00:05:58

I said to my friend the other day about

it, he said, Oh, I didn't know you could

116

: 00:06:01

use it for sports.

117

: 00:06:02

I've been using it for poker.

118

: 00:06:04

So like my mate's been using it for three

months for poker.

119

: 00:06:09

Yeah, that's exactly right.

120

: 00:06:10

We get a lot of private poker games on

there.

121

: 00:06:14

Yeah, it's another great user case.

122

: 00:06:16

Just another way where people just aren't

carrying cash anymore.

123

: 00:06:20

How far did you have to go with the

compliance side?

124

: 00:06:24

Because betting is notoriously challenging

from a technical standpoint.

125

: 00:06:27

You've got the whole PCI compliance area

to go through.

126

: 00:06:31

You've got ID verifications.

127

: 00:06:33

Obviously you've got the better way stuff

to go through and everything around that.

128

: 00:06:37

Because this is a user generated betting

market essentially.

129

: 00:06:43

How far did you have to go?

130

: 00:06:44

Did you have to go as far as like a bet

365 or were the concessions?

131

: 00:06:48

Tell us a little bit about that.

132

: 00:06:49

I'm fascinated by that.

133

: 00:06:51

Yeah, so certainly the biggest barrier to

entry was getting completely compliant and

134

: 00:06:57

regulated with the UK GC, which is the

gambling authority in the United Kingdom.

135

: 00:07:04

And yeah, that was a terribly stressful

time for me because it was, you know,

136

: 00:07:09

whether or not we was going to get this

off the ground, relied on us getting these

137

: 00:07:12

licenses.

138

: 00:07:13

So it took us, I think, two years in total

from the start of the application to

139

: 00:07:19

getting it approved.

140

: 00:07:20

So I had to get a personal gambling

license myself and then Fairplay has a

141

: 00:07:25

sort of combined remote encompassing

license which covers everything.

142

: 00:07:31

But yeah, I mean, the UKGC are very

stringent in their measures.

143

: 00:07:35

So yeah, there's a lot of hoops to jump

through and a lot of them you have to

144

: 00:07:39

prove to them.

145

: 00:07:40

But luckily, through a lot of hard work,

we managed to get that license.

146

: 00:07:44

And the next thing is just making sure

that you stay within the parameters of

147

: 00:07:49

the...

148

: 00:07:49

what they tell you can and can't do.

149

: 00:07:51

So, you know, compliance is my side of

things within the company and the license

150

: 00:07:58

is such a great asset for us, we have to

look after it with everything we can.

151

: 00:08:03

Yeah, that's interesting, mate.

152

: 00:08:05

My background is product building,

building software and startup background.

153

: 00:08:10

And I've took software from startup

through to exit.

154

: 00:08:13

And that is such a difficult journey to go

on.

155

: 00:08:17

One thing I'm fascinated by, because

you've got a really fascinating inbuilt

156

: 00:08:24

type of audience, which is, if you think

about most startups, it's like, okay,

157

: 00:08:28

here's product market fit, okay?

158

: 00:08:29

Here's a product that is targeting this

market.

159

: 00:08:33

You're solving a problem which exists, but

actually it can fit so many different

160

: 00:08:37

markets.

161

: 00:08:37

We've talked about sports, we've talked

about poker.

162

: 00:08:39

It can quite literally create your own

market and really, really broaden the use

163

: 00:08:47

cases, which is as dangerous as it is

exciting because you could go out there

164

: 00:08:50

and try and be everything to everyone or

you can really focus in and try and target

165

: 00:08:54

some verticals.

166

: 00:08:55

How have you grown this thing?

167

: 00:08:56

What markets did you target to start with?

168

: 00:08:59

Where did you decide to start with that

growth?

169

: 00:09:03

It's certainly golf.

170

: 00:09:07

The idea was born on the golf course.

171

: 00:09:10

Me and my friends, the guys who I started

the business with, we bet all the time we

172

: 00:09:17

play a lot of golf and that's who we

really went after.

173

: 00:09:20

We went after golfers, we did a few

partnerships, we got involved with a

174

: 00:09:26

couple of influencers, put on a few golf

days.

175

: 00:09:30

got involved in a few local clubs.

176

: 00:09:32

To start off with, it was pretty much, a

few of the local golf clubs around Essex,

177

: 00:09:37

just speaking to the management, speaking

to the swindles, seeing what they thought,

178

: 00:09:42

would you use this app?

179

: 00:09:43

Is it gonna make your life easier?

180

: 00:09:45

A lot of people said yes.

181

: 00:09:47

You get a lot of pushback as well, because

naturally, some of the older lads, they're

182

: 00:09:50

like, I've still got a roll of 50s on me.

183

: 00:09:53

You know what I mean?

184

: 00:09:55

Yeah, so it was just always going to...

185

: 00:09:59

start with golf because we knew the

betting market was there and you know we

186

: 00:10:04

knew people were going to use this because

we saw it every week for so long and you

187

: 00:10:09

know the older boys in our swindle they

used to go mental us because anyone under

188

: 00:10:14

the age of 30 just none of us have cash

like we'd never do it and all of that

189

: 00:10:19

awkwardness of oh I'll transfer you and

I'll owe you for next week like no one

190

: 00:10:23

ever pays up on that and no one ever

chases you for it so it all just gets lost

191

: 00:10:27

in it.

192

: 00:10:28

It's always a pain in like my

brother-in-law, Alan, and he's a

193

: 00:10:33

meticulous organizer and he's a really

calm bloke.

194

: 00:10:36

Like anyone who's spent time with me and

Alan knows that the two brother-in-law's,

195

: 00:10:40

I'm not the calm one.

196

: 00:10:43

But if you want to rile him right up,

don't bring a fiver on a Sunday.

197

: 00:10:46

If you want to rile him up, he sent seven

messages to the group for the last 10

198

: 00:10:50

days.

199

: 00:10:50

Don't forget your fiver, don't forget your

fiver, don't forget your fiver.

200

: 00:10:54

And then come Sunday when fiver's in,

there's three people that paid.

201

: 00:10:57

That's the only time you'll see him lose

his temper.

202

: 00:10:59

So you you're saving the world's calmest

man from ever having to lose his temper.

203

: 00:11:06

You're right.

204

: 00:11:07

It's like, at Bristol, we don't have rolls

of 50 with us.

205

: 00:11:10

We have rolls of 10s and 5s, Essex got a

bit more cash knocking around.

206

: 00:11:13

But silly things like, I go and watch a

bit of live cricket.

207

: 00:11:18

One of the things I love to do is, and we

don't do it because someone's got to write

208

: 00:11:23

it down so you don't bother, which is

like, how many runs before the first

209

: 00:11:26

wicket?

210

: 00:11:28

If there's, how many of you, let's say

there's five or six of us going and we all

211

: 00:11:31

stick a 10er in, you're going to have

loads of one-pound bets over the day,

212

: 00:11:34

can't you?

213

: 00:11:35

our pound or when the first wicket falls

for two to five runs, six, eight runs,

214

: 00:11:40

whatever, whatever it might be, how many

wickets, who's going to get the most

215

: 00:11:43

wickets more, how many more courts and

bowls, whatever it might dismissals,

216

: 00:11:48

whatever it might be.

217

: 00:11:49

You can set any of that, right?

218

: 00:11:52

Exactly that.

219

: 00:11:52

I mean, so me and the guys in the office,

we went to the BMW PGA Championship at

220

: 00:11:58

Wentworth and we plotted up all day on a

par three and we just bet on how many

221

: 00:12:04

balls were going to land on the green.

222

: 00:12:06

So whoever decided, whoever was going

first could pick how many balls were going

223

: 00:12:11

to land.

224

: 00:12:11

So I was going to go playing in three

balls.

225

: 00:12:13

So I'd say, well, looking at the three

ball professional golfers, three are going

226

: 00:12:17

to hit.

227

: 00:12:18

the next person could choose whether to

add zero, one or two.

228

: 00:12:21

And we've just literally all day betting

on who is going to land on the green.

229

: 00:12:24

And then we was betting on who was going

to make the part.

230

: 00:12:27

And you know, exactly that just little one

pound bets all day long.

231

: 00:12:29

And because the app's been built in a way

where it's so quick to use and, you know,

232

: 00:12:34

it's seamless, you can just keep repeating

those bets all day long.

233

: 00:12:38

And, you know, at the end of the day, no

one was coming up with loads of money.

234

: 00:12:43

It was just like one or two pounds

changing hands here and there.

235

: 00:12:45

But.

236

: 00:12:46

That's what betting should be about, you

know, fun with your mates and enjoying it.

237

: 00:12:50

No one's going to get striped up on that

because it's against your friends and, you

238

: 00:12:56

know, we only see small stakes really,

like 10s, 15s, 20 quids sometimes, but

239

: 00:13:02

it's just all about having a laugh with

your mates and, you know, taking one or

240

: 00:13:05

two quid off them on silly bets.

241

: 00:13:07

That's the beauty of it, I think, is that

you...

242

: 00:13:11

I think this is perhaps why it fits so

nicely with golf as well, that there's a

243

: 00:13:14

bit of an honor system in play.

244

: 00:13:16

Golf's a very honest game if you're

wanting to play it how it's intended to be

245

: 00:13:21

played.

246

: 00:13:22

And it feels like this, as you say, you're

not going to attract people that are going

247

: 00:13:24

to want to take you for a ride.

248

: 00:13:26

No one's going to want to rinse anyone

just because it is your friends and you're

249

: 00:13:29

building your own markets out there.

250

: 00:13:33

When it comes to...

251

: 00:13:34

building something like this, you've got

to pick your battles.

252

: 00:13:37

You've got to say, right, OK, here's the

thing that we're building first.

253

: 00:13:40

Here's the thing that we'd love to build

now, but actually that might be a year

254

: 00:13:44

out.

255

: 00:13:44

Like, what's the next year?

256

: 00:13:45

What's the next two years look like in

terms of features, in terms of what you're

257

: 00:13:48

going to be doing with Fair Play Exchange?

258

: 00:13:51

Um, yeah, definitely.

259

: 00:13:52

Like exactly what you said, there's so

true, Mark, like you have to build the

260

: 00:13:56

core functionality of it before you put

all the bells and whistles on, right?

261

: 00:14:00

So what we've got now is essentially our

minimum viable product.

262

: 00:14:04

And, you know, we're, we're currently

looking at new features now.

263

: 00:14:07

Um, the next step and phase that we're,

we're sort of planning and going to begin

264

: 00:14:13

to build soon is a sort of sweet state

function.

265

: 00:14:16

So, you know, that classic thing, grand

national, you come out of the office.

266

: 00:14:21

and you've got your tenors and you end up

putting in tenors for people that are

267

: 00:14:24

working for you and that.

268

: 00:14:25

So, you know, a sweepstake function where

you can easily, you know, set them up,

269

: 00:14:30

distribute them in a way where Fair Play

can set up sort of open public

270

: 00:14:35

sweepstakes.

271

: 00:14:36

So say when April comes around, Masters is

coming on, we'll just set up Fair Play

272

: 00:14:42

Master sweepstake.

273

: 00:14:44

You can buy a ticket and then we'll just

give everyone, you know, the algorithm

274

: 00:14:48

will give everyone a random player.

275

: 00:14:51

So it's sort of giving you an interest in

it rather than, you know, some people

276

: 00:14:55

obviously spend ages analysing who is

going to go well around Augusta and

277

: 00:15:01

whatnot and who's a good price but on our

new Sweetsnake feature you'll just be

278

: 00:15:06

given a random player and then that's your

player to cheer on.

279

: 00:15:11

That's huge.

280

: 00:15:13

Sorry to jump in, Ben.

281

: 00:15:14

That really is interesting as well,

because you've got like my club will send

282

: 00:15:18

an email around saying, right, master

sweepstakes.

283

: 00:15:20

Send me a tenner via the bank and bank

transfer it.

284

: 00:15:24

And we'll wait until everything's done and

then we'll spreadsheet it up and we'll

285

: 00:15:27

send it all out.

286

: 00:15:28

So the ability for clubs to be able to

create their own sweepstakes and be able

287

: 00:15:32

to run what is actually quite a

significant part of their business.

288

: 00:15:36

A lot of pro shops are trying to build

revenue through so many different streams

289

: 00:15:39

that

290

: 00:15:40

They want the sweepstakes every week.

291

: 00:15:42

They're running comps, obviously, as we

know, but that everything is moving

292

: 00:15:46

towards, how do we generate additional

revenue that is not based on product?

293

: 00:15:51

It's not based on the weather in so far as

tee times and selling lessons and whatever

294

: 00:15:55

else.

295

: 00:15:56

So I really liked that idea.

296

: 00:15:57

I think it's an interesting way to get the

pro shops interested.

297

: 00:16:03

Because if you can get those guys, if you

can get each pro, each club advocating for

298

: 00:16:06

this.

299

: 00:16:07

Suddenly the trickle down is huge, isn't

it?

300

: 00:16:09

You just get every member using it.

301

: 00:16:11

Of course, and it's a huge acquisition

tool for us, hopefully when it launches.

302

: 00:16:17

Even going back to the Grand National user

case, 40 horses, you get 10 offices

303

: 00:16:24

involved, that's 400 users straight off

the bat.

304

: 00:16:28

So it's just another way that hopefully we

can start building up this audience and

305

: 00:16:32

user base.

306

: 00:16:34

I suppose it's saying as well that.

307

: 00:16:38

people can offer on behalf of the people.

308

: 00:16:40

So we could, we could set up the golf

lovers United podcast, master sweepstakes.

309

: 00:16:45

So we could set one up and invite our,

invite our users to come in and, and

310

: 00:16:50

participate in whatever else it is.

311

: 00:16:52

It's a very clever thing.

312

: 00:16:52

And those that want to do unique bets with

themselves on whether John Ram will finish

313

: 00:16:57

higher than Brooks Koepke can do that.

314

: 00:16:59

But then if you want to go into partaking,

they just buy a ticket and the sweepstake,

315

: 00:17:03

you've got that easy option too.

316

: 00:17:06

Exactly.

317

: 00:17:07

I think when we first spoke, I think we

first spoke that one of the things that

318

: 00:17:10

reason, so Jay's not with us today,

obviously Jay's the other host, he lives

319

: 00:17:15

in America, but Mark and I both have

startups and scale ups and Mark's

320

: 00:17:21

transitioned and sold as well and things

like that.

321

: 00:17:23

So Mark and I really like the business

side of golf and we've got a guy called

322

: 00:17:27

Colin Landforce coming on in a couple of

weeks time, Colin's like the number one

323

: 00:17:31

sort of

324

: 00:17:32

guru in how to build brands by going and

finding suppliers for be it gloves, tees,

325

: 00:17:37

bags, whatever it might be.

326

: 00:17:38

And this business podcast actually is like

business tag on podcasts that Mark and I

327

: 00:17:42

quite passionate about because of our, our

love of business.

328

: 00:17:44

And I think you epitomize what we love

about this.

329

: 00:17:49

You've seen a problem, you fixed it.

330

: 00:17:51

It's relative related to golf, which is

why it's on here, but it's not always

331

: 00:17:57

easy.

332

: 00:17:58

So.

333

: 00:17:58

While you've overcome things and you're

doing great and you're just gaining users,

334

: 00:18:02

what were the tough things?

335

: 00:18:03

Was it all around the gaming license stuff

and there have been other things that have

336

: 00:18:06

been difficult?

337

: 00:18:08

That was particularly difficult, probably

one of the biggest barriers to entry for

338

: 00:18:13

us.

339

: 00:18:15

Believe it or not, a big headache was

getting a bank account because they

340

: 00:18:21

automatically, the banks weren't

necessarily interested in hearing too much

341

: 00:18:27

from us, but as soon as you tick the box

of gambling, they knock you back for a

342

: 00:18:33

bank account.

343

: 00:18:34

So I almost had to really try and get my

face in front of.

344

: 00:18:37

a bank manager to say, look, I need to

open an account for my business.

345

: 00:18:40

And although technically we have a

gambling license, it's not necessarily a,

346

: 00:18:45

you know, we're not a bookmaker.

347

: 00:18:47

We're not, I don't see it as a gambling

product necessarily.

348

: 00:18:49

I think it's more of a financial vehicle

to pull people's money in, you know?

349

: 00:18:53

Um, so yeah, eventually managed to get a

bank account, which was difficult.

350

: 00:18:58

Um, obviously raising money is exciting,

but you know, very frustrating.

351

: 00:19:04

Had to go to

352

: 00:19:05

You have to get so many knockbacks before

you can get someone over the line.

353

: 00:19:09

And then obviously once you get a bit of

momentum, it starts to get a little bit

354

: 00:19:12

easier.

355

: 00:19:14

Building the product.

356

: 00:19:15

So, you know, the actual coding software

side of it is out of my realms of

357

: 00:19:19

competency.

358

: 00:19:20

But, you know, you have to pick the right

partners and pick the right team who can

359

: 00:19:25

build that product for you and have to

have a lot of trust in them to build what

360

: 00:19:29

you want to be built and, you know, solve

the problem that we're trying to solve.

361

: 00:19:33

So.

362

: 00:19:34

Yeah, but many, many different things that

have been super stressful, but also super

363

: 00:19:40

rewarding, you know, to build something

from scratch and get it out there and sort

364

: 00:19:45

of prove the concept that people are

using.

365

: 00:19:47

And, you know, we get great feedback that

people really enjoy the product.

366

: 00:19:50

So, you know, it's incredibly rewarding to

see.

367

: 00:19:54

It feels like community is such a big part

of this growth as well.

368

: 00:19:57

It feels as if not only allowing people to

build their own communities around things

369

: 00:20:02

like the sweepstakes in the future and,

you know, we three building our own books

370

: 00:20:07

and me building books at my club and you

building books at your club and creating

371

: 00:20:12

that sense of individual community.

372

: 00:20:14

But the general bigger picture Fair Play

Exchange community, you know, this idea

373

: 00:20:20

that you're almost

374

: 00:20:23

You're almost creating a movement where we

all move forward with this fun aspect of

375

: 00:20:27

whatever it is that we're into.

376

: 00:20:29

Is that something that you're trying to

focus on as you grow the user base, as you

377

: 00:20:33

focus on user acquisition?

378

: 00:20:36

Yeah, definitely.

379

: 00:20:37

I mean, at the minute user acquisition is

just the main focus for us.

380

: 00:20:41

But what we're seeing quite often is

people inviting their friends to the app,

381

: 00:20:46

which is great for us.

382

: 00:20:48

It's the cheapest way that we're ever

going to acquire customers.

383

: 00:20:50

But essentially, if you enter the Fair

Play app and you haven't got any friends

384

: 00:20:56

on the app, it's redundant.

385

: 00:20:58

You can't use it.

386

: 00:20:59

So you have to go on the app and invite

your mates in order to be able to use it.

387

: 00:21:05

massive for us, you know, and eventually,

you know, we've got loads of different

388

: 00:21:09

aspects that for the road future roadmap

that we can hopefully build around, you

389

: 00:21:14

know, people being able to bet amongst

each other in the community.

390

: 00:21:18

But yeah, for now, the focus is solely

just let's build the build the audience

391

: 00:21:23

and prove the concept before we start

really driving other features in.

392

: 00:21:28

Yeah, that's that stickiness as well is

such an important factor, isn't it?

393

: 00:21:31

With with any kind of app based product,

we found it with our stuff where if we get

394

: 00:21:37

if we get someone registered and the

onboarding is so tight that by the by the

395

: 00:21:43

time they've registered and finished that

registration, they've created a podcast

396

: 00:21:46

and maybe even uploaded a trailer or

certainly got to the point where they've

397

: 00:21:50

put some cover art into the podcast

platform.

398

: 00:21:53

They've put some a title for the show in

there.

399

: 00:21:55

They've put a description in.

400

: 00:21:56

and importantly, they've put their name

into it.

401

: 00:22:00

They feel like they've got some ownership

and the product just became.

402

: 00:22:04

We did that almost from day one and the

product just became that much more sticky.

403

: 00:22:08

The churn rate dropped to a really, really

low percentage because people.

404

: 00:22:14

They they had some skin in the game that

they were invested.

405

: 00:22:16

It was OK.

406

: 00:22:17

Here's my thing on this platform.

407

: 00:22:20

And it feels as if there's a bit of a

journey there for you as well.

408

: 00:22:23

Well, OK, let's build the onboarding out.

409

: 00:22:25

Let's make sure that OK.

410

: 00:22:26

One of the things that I do is make sure

Ben and Billy are in here with me and I'm

411

: 00:22:31

going to chuck a, I'm going to chuck a

quid at a new user so that they can have a

412

: 00:22:34

bet with their friends, you know,

whatever.

413

: 00:22:35

So that's such a fascinating part of this

for me, mate.

414

: 00:22:38

I think how you develop that is, is going

to be really interesting to see.

415

: 00:22:43

I'm fascinated by all of this.

416

: 00:22:46

Yeah, we definitely need to, essentially,

each person at downside the app, we need

417

: 00:22:51

them to be a sort of a salesman for us,

right?

418

: 00:22:54

We need them to go out and that's one

reason, you know, I say to the team, the

419

: 00:22:59

customer service for us is absolutely

vital because, you know, if someone can't

420

: 00:23:05

get their account verified for whatever

reason, we need to be on hand to tell

421

: 00:23:09

them, you know, we can get it sorted out

for you.

422

: 00:23:12

And, you know, if someone's got a problem

with drawing, we need to be able to, you

423

: 00:23:15

know,

424

: 00:23:16

10 seconds of their email coming through,

we need to go back to them and let them

425

: 00:23:19

know there's someone on the end of the

line because ultimately you're building

426

: 00:23:23

trust with your audience and trust with

your user base.

427

: 00:23:25

And like I said before, we need each user

to be a salesman for us and go out and

428

: 00:23:30

shout about, oh, this new app's great.

429

: 00:23:32

It's really easy to use and if you do have

any issues, they're straight away sorting

430

: 00:23:38

it out for you.

431

: 00:23:40

That is so vital, man.

432

: 00:23:41

And I think a lot of startups get that

wrong.

433

: 00:23:43

I think, especially when you consider,

like, you know, in startup world,

434

: 00:23:47

everyone's like a CEO, which sounds like

you're Bill Gates or Steve Jobs.

435

: 00:23:51

And it's always, it's a little bit

bullshitty, isn't it?

436

: 00:23:55

And I always find that it's mental.

437

: 00:23:58

And the idea, and I even still do this.

438

: 00:24:01

Like we created startups, we've sold

startups, and even the one that I still

439

: 00:24:04

work on now as part of the bigger

business.

440

: 00:24:08

Like I still do support because especially

with the most angry people, you know,

441

: 00:24:14

because they present such an opportunity.

442

: 00:24:17

If you can give them the best experience

and if you can say to them, look, I'm Bill

443

: 00:24:21

it, I'm the founder.

444

: 00:24:22

This is what I do.

445

: 00:24:24

I've sorted you out.

446

: 00:24:26

They become evangelists, they become

advocates and they will until they simply

447

: 00:24:31

die, they will tell everyone how good you

are.

448

: 00:24:34

And it's.

449

: 00:24:35

So many people get that wrong.

450

: 00:24:36

So that is so refreshing, dude.

451

: 00:24:37

I think that's a very powerful way of

doing it.

452

: 00:24:41

I'm, I'm literally, you know, on the

weekends, I'm refreshing, I'm sitting on

453

: 00:24:47

CMS, the backend all day, just constantly

refreshing it, seeing what's going on.

454

: 00:24:51

And I'm, I'm sitting there, I'm getting

involved with the admin.

455

: 00:24:54

I'm constantly, you know, going back to

customers, you know, we've, we've got an

456

: 00:24:58

in-house team of people here, but you

know, I feel like it's important exactly

457

: 00:25:03

as you just said, that I'll get involved

in that and no one's too big here to muck

458

: 00:25:07

in and

459

: 00:25:08

do the admin and the customer service

because, you know, it's a fluid

460

: 00:25:13

environment where everyone's got to be

able to do a bit of everything, you know.

461

: 00:25:20

I think, I think it's so key.

462

: 00:25:22

And again, without harping on about it,

it's, we found exactly the same over what

463

: 00:25:27

we're doing and with our onboarding, we

actually found an element of gamification

464

: 00:25:31

really helped.

465

: 00:25:32

So as users went through things turned

green, it bought, it gave a bit of fun and

466

: 00:25:38

experience to buy into it.

467

: 00:25:39

And I think it's very different on how you

do it, but it's nice having three people

468

: 00:25:44

doing three very different things, having

all the same problems and successes.

469

: 00:25:48

I think Billy, the one thing I want to

pick up on there is that community side.

470

: 00:25:52

You talked about your own engine golf

days.

471

: 00:25:54

And I think that's a really big thing.

472

: 00:25:55

Cause if you have a golf day in, I'll just

say Manchester Leeds, Birmingham, one in

473

: 00:26:00

Essex, one in North London, one in South

London, I'll do that one for you.

474

: 00:26:04

I, that's my only impression I got me.

475

: 00:26:06

Um, and one in Bristol, and then you're

doing that and you're having the fair, the

476

: 00:26:10

fair play exchange series you're, you're

creating.

477

: 00:26:12

If you're getting 70, 80 people to each of

those events, you're creating those users.

478

: 00:26:16

It's a fantastic way of driving, isn't it?

479

: 00:26:18

And I think hopefully over the summer, we

can see a load more events and people just

480

: 00:26:22

coming on board.

481

: 00:26:24

I know we got the GLU code.

482

: 00:26:27

What's the GLU code get people again,

Billy?

483

: 00:26:29

Won't you tell people?

484

: 00:26:31

So if the guys sign up to the app and just

put in a promo code on sign up GLU will

485

: 00:26:38

put a five pound free bet in your account

and you know You can test out the app have

486

: 00:26:42

a play with your friends and yeah

challenge your mates or something

487

: 00:26:46

I lost that last night doing that putting

video with prev.

488

: 00:26:49

I lost five pound to him straight away.

489

: 00:26:51

My first bet done, gone.

490

: 00:26:54

Hahaha

491

: 00:26:54

you need those video lessons with

PrevMate.

492

: 00:26:57

So don't be betting when you're getting

taught, this is like putting one on one,

493

: 00:27:00

man.

494

: 00:27:01

we got five more lessons in the series.

495

: 00:27:04

By the time this comes out, we'll probably

be about lesson five, I think, probably.

496

: 00:27:07

We've got five more lessons in the series

and there's a tic-tac-toe in each one.

497

: 00:27:12

So as Prev said, he's going to be 30 quid

up.

498

: 00:27:15

That is easy money.

499

: 00:27:16

That's the easiest money I've ever seen.

500

: 00:27:18

I love that.

501

: 00:27:19

That's hilarious.

502

: 00:27:20

He's prepped a bit for playing it.

503

: 00:27:21

He's a pro.

504

: 00:27:22

Yeah, he's a pro and he's a teacher.

505

: 00:27:23

So he's a good mate of mine.

506

: 00:27:24

He's building up, he's building up his

Instagram channel to do some coaching and

507

: 00:27:28

this, that the other really good bloke and

like I said, well, no one else is doing.

508

: 00:27:32

So as you've seen, you saw the video I

sent you last night that we're, we're the

509

: 00:27:36

only people in the world who are doing a

winter outdoors nighttime putting series.

510

: 00:27:43

There's no one else doing that.

511

: 00:27:45

That's because it's freezing.

512

: 00:27:49

Billy.

513

: 00:27:51

This has been awesome, Billy.

514

: 00:27:52

Thank you so much, man.

515

: 00:27:53

The the next thing I want to do is make

sure everyone gets hold of Fairplay

516

: 00:27:57

Exchange.

517

: 00:27:57

I'm assuming it's Google App Store.

518

: 00:28:01

It's the Play Store.

519

: 00:28:02

Sorry, it's iOS.

520

: 00:28:03

I've downloaded it myself on iOS, but

available on all the app stores just by

521

: 00:28:06

searching Fairplay Exchange.

522

: 00:28:09

It's exactly right, yeah.

523

: 00:28:10

Available on the App Store and Google

Play.

524

: 00:28:12

It's completely free to download.

525

: 00:28:14

We don't take no cut or commission on the

bets.

526

: 00:28:17

It's free to use, yeah, free to download.

527

: 00:28:20

So no reason not to get involved and have

a bet with your mates.

528

: 00:28:25

I love it.

529

: 00:28:25

You can get that at FairplayExchange.co.uk

as well.

530

: 00:28:28

This has been fantastic, Billy.

531

: 00:28:29

Thank you for joining us and to everyone

out there, get over there and get that app

532

: 00:28:33

downloaded and let's create some

sweepstakes and start having a little bit

533

: 00:28:37

of fun.

534

: 00:28:42

Cheers Chaps!

535

: 00:28:43

I'm gonna mark that.

536

: 00:28:47

Yeah, I'm gonna mark that there.

537

: 00:28:48

marking it.

538

: 00:28:49

Then he can end the recording.

539

: 00:28:50

He's just, he's basically marked the bit

for you said, cheers chap.

540

: 00:28:53

So it's just done.

541

: 00:28:54

And I will just cut all that in with some

music and stuff there.

542

: 00:28:58

I'll stop us up on this one.

543

: 00:29:00

that mate.