Angels feel like something for little kids and Christmas trees. It’s Della Reese performing heartwarming miracles on cheesy Sunday night television or the goofy Clarence from It’s A Wonderful Life. Or even a hearbroken Nicolas Cage staring forelornly at the ocean from City of Angels. They’re something silly, like a figurine in your Grandma’s cabinet or laying on a cloud in Heaven playing a harp. And of course the most famous painting of angels in the world doesn’t help.

Raphael’s cherubim from The Sistine Madonna aren’t even the focus of the painting, they’re just looking up at the Virgin Mary and Baby Jesus, but they’re the part that everyone remembers

That’s the touchy-feely Hollywood version. But the word “angel” just comes from the Greek word for messenger which is all the angels were, translated to from the original Bible stories in Hebrew. And in the Old Testament, they’re terrifying. They are the instruments of God’s will. Which means they do things like annihilate Sodom and Gomorrah when God thinks the city is too wicked or defend the Garden of Eden with a flaming sword. They are the forces of Nature carrying out the vengeance of the Almighty, supernatural soldiers of Heaven.

But that’s just the Christian version. Angels are in almost every religion as spiritual beings who carry divine messages, which are sometimes helpful and sometimes bad news. Even Satanists have angels, but they’re atheists who use the fallen angels from Christian theology as metaphors. In fact, angels aren’t even mentioned as having wings for the most part, that’s just a creation of artists in the Middle Ages.

Corin Grillo was a licensed psychotherapist struggling with depression of her own when she prayed to the angels for something that would transform her life from the pit of sadness that she was living in. Shortly after, she witnessed something in the street that she could only describe as a miracle and she began to start seeing signs of angelic influence wherever she went. That miracle in the street altered her life forever and she began to climb out of her depression and find start finding meaning and purpose in life.

Corin started introducing angel invocation into her psychotherapy sessions and seeing results with patients. Whatever was going on, it was working and it led her to develop an online forum where people can connect with each other and try to share miracles and developments in their own lives. That formed the basis of The Angel Experiment, Corin’s guidebook on a 21-day program to try to invoke the power and healing of the angels in your own life.

Corin says that you don’t have to be religious to experience angelic activity in your own life, you just have to go through with the rituals and meditation. After reading the book and going on my own Angel Experiment, it’s interesting because I feel like it’s like Chaos Magick. You’re invoking entities, you’re setting your intentions, you’re journaling your feelings and thoughts looking for synchronicities that happened and gratitude in the good things in your life.

Much like Chaos Magick, or as Dr. Dean Radin talks about in Real Magic , it doesn’t really matter if you have rock solid faith or not, there’s something in the ritual that makes changes happen in your life. When you perform a ritual and set an intention and you try to invoke a supernatural being to intercede on your behalf, your subconscious goes to work. Whether it’s angels helping you or you’re praying to the Saints to ask God for a favor, or it’s one of the entities in the Lesser Key of Solomon , it’s the same thing. Supernatural or not, these prayers are the basis of faith and Corin Grillo’s Angel Experiment is as good of a place to start as any to get some meditation and positivity going every day.

In this conversation we discuss:

• The miracle that started it all for her and pulled her out of her depression.
• What happened when Corin started introducing angel work into her psychotherapy practice?
• The importance of a “sacred space” in your home
• Who are her favorite angels?
• What does an angel sound like when she channels them?

Corin’s story of overcoming her melancholy and keeping fighting the good fight when she was thinking of quitting it all, is heartening whether you believe in angels or not. Her idea of everyday miracles that people can see in their own life is a way of showing gratitude for the good things that do happen.

Welcome to See You on the Other Mike, where the world

of the mysterious collides with the world of entertainment.

A discussion of art, music, movies, spirituality,

the weird and self discovery. And

now, your hosts, musicians and entertainers

who have their own weakness for the weird, Mike and

Wendy from the band, Sunspot. Episode 275,

The Angel Experiment, the magical adventures

of Corinne Grillo, and we're here with the

author of the Angel Experiment. Corinne, coming to us

from California. How are you doing today? I'm probably a little warmer than

you are. I'm great. Thanks for having me. Good. No. We're excited to talk about

the angel experiment. And so I've been reading through the book all this week.

It's an interesting book. You really present it, in a way

that you don't necessarily have to be because myself,

I'm not the world's biggest angel guy. No. Let's just

I'll get I'll get that out there right now. Just laying it right out. That's

great. That's great. You're not the biggest angel guy. I totally

relate. I was not the biggest angel woman for a while. And so,

what inspired you to get behind? And plus, as someone, if you were you were

a psychotherapist in your past Yes. And then you

come on and you release this book. I kinda like, what was

the moment? You know, there there has to be that 1 moment you decide to

go full weirdo. And,

what, you know, what was the moment that you went over and joined us on

this side? Yeah. I mean, it was there was,

yes, a big moment actually that happened. At the time, I was,

you know, clinically trained a psychotherapist and

helping kids, helping rescue gang kids off the street

in the streets of Los Angeles. And, you know, even though I had

this, like, great career on the outside, on the inside, I suffered a lot with

depression for severe depression for decades, just kind of

white knuckling through life and drinking a

bunch, you know, like a 5th of tequila every couple of days. And, you

know, I was I was living the life. Let's put it that way. Sure. And,

and, a friend of mine bought an angel reading

for me just for fun. Right? It was Mike this light hearted thing. So I

think I'm gonna go with, woah. Let's go talk to a psychic. Yay. Right. And

I don't know exactly what an angel reading is. So you're gonna you're gonna have

to let me in on that. Okay. So an angel reading is like, people who

focus on talking to angels for you, and you get, like,

angel messages. And and she was also an angel healer, and I

had never had 1 of these sessions either. So I think I think I'm just

going to run of the mill, you know, psychic and, just, you know, I

always kind of had fun and been curious about things like that. But

but, now the girl who bought me this angel healing had no idea what I

was really going through. Right? Because I used to I used to know how to

play play it play it straight, in front of the crowd. Right?

People Living the functional lifestyle. I think, a lot of

musicians have been there. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Right? And I'm I got the

creative side in me. So, yeah. So but I was living a duplicitous

Mike, looking appearing to be high functioning on the outside, but on the

inside, really struggling to Mike. I mean, wanting to live. And

back then, literally, my only prayer was that that day would be my

last. And the thing really that kept me alive was was my

daughter. You know? So I was I was too much of a of

a wuss to kind of take my own life. But in my

early twenties, I, I definitely did a lot of things

that might lead me to death. Luckily I didn't die. So, yeah, it was a

really rough go for the first several decades of, of my life. So anyways,

I go to this woo, psychic. Right? And, I'm

sitting with her and she starts giving me all of these all of this she

starts dropping down the wisdom about my life. And I didn't tell her a thing

about my life and nobody knew about this stuff. And it's all the stuff I,

like, I didn't wanna talk about. Right? But all the stuff I needed to talk

about and needed to hear. So I was like, okay. There's something legit about this

lady. I'm listening. And when she got into the energy healing do you know what

an energy healing is, Mike? You know, no.

Let's do it. Okay. Well, you know, we we all have energy

bodies, and a lot of paranormal experiences happen on the energetic level. You know,

things flying across the room, and and, you know, it's a ball of energy. So

we are made of we're made of energy. So an angel healing helps

correct your energy field. You know, we have this physical body, and then we have

an energy body. Most people don't know about the energy body.

And because we don't, we end up never giving it never servicing

it. So imagine you've been, you know, for 40 years, you have

this thing that you've never checked the engine. You've never changed the oil.

You've never done all of that. So that can often pollute our system

and make us depressed and anxious and carry a lot of, energy and

emotions that we don't need. Anyways, that's a side note. That makes me

interested, though, as someone who was a psychotherapist

at the time. Mhmm. If you'd you'd

had these feelings, like, what led you? Is that kind of was depression what

led you into psychotherapy in the 1st place? Like, you're like, well, maybe if I

can help other people, I can help Mike? Well, it's not like that conscious decision.

It's not like, oh, yeah. I need to help myself. Therefore, I'm gonna help other

people. It's just that, the I was always

kind of predisposed to talking to people and helping them 1 on 1 even when

I was younger and suffering. I I remember sitting at

school in college and going, oh, my gosh. If I could just get paid to

talk to people, this is what I would do. But I never Mike I don't

know why I didn't think of therapy at the Mike, but yeah, I just have

always loved helping people. And, you

know, because of my childhood and a lot of things that happened, you know,

anybody could tell me anything. I'm not gonna judge anything that's happening.

So, so yeah. But at the time, I didn't really

acknowledge the energy body. Right? So this is my first,

energy healing session, and I started feeling some

pretty intense things flowing through my body, like tingles and things, you

know, it's just I I could feel something happening when she was doing the

session. And so after the session, I felt so much lighter

and brighter, more hopeful. What what happens

during an energy healing session? Do you guys, like, hold hands and close your

eyes and think well, I'm just you know, in this kind of thing, because a

lot of times, when they talk about traditional

religious healing, the laying on of hands and things seems I

mean, that is exactly what you're talking about, that, you know, they had

they would have a thing for it in the church where priests would do that.

They would put the hands on the person and, try to

focus God's healing through them. And what what did you guys

do in an energy healing? And first of all, were you, like,

cynical, and then all of a sudden you felt something and, like, wait. I didn't

expect that to happen? Yeah. Well, you know, here's the thing.

Because because I had you know, I was already kinda going through a rough

patch, I was kinda open minded about it. You know? I was like, okay. Well,

let's give it a shot. Plus, I already knew about Reiki. You may have heard

about Reiki. Yeah. So so I was already open to energy

work. I had just not done it on myself, in years. So I was

open to it. And at this stage, you know, she spent about a solid 30

minutes telling me about my life and stuff she shouldn't know. So there was

an opening for me to go, okay. Maybe this stuff is real. I'll just give

it a shot. So so, yeah, when I started feeling it, I was like, wow.

Okay. I'm feeling something now. And to be honest, this,

I I now teach this stuff. Right? I teach this now to people all over

the world because that's how much it impacted my life and how much it woke

me up to going, oh my god. This stuff is real. Okay. So

but this is just Mike the session. It was really what happened after the

session. That was the event. And so she I leave the session, and

she tells me, okay, Corinne. You

when you leave here, I want to know you have angels. Everybody has angels,

and you need to talk to your angels as if they're real. You need to

ask for their help. And I said, alright. I'll give it a shot because that

was, like, super awesome, what just happened back there. And so

I started talking to them, and then I started noticing synchronicities.

Maybe, like, for example, turning on the radio and it playing an

angel song or, just when I'm thinking about angels, a

truck would go by with angel wings on it. Or that that you

were watching TV and then the Sarah McLaughlin ad with the arms of the angel

comes on with the sad animals. Yeah. I feel like that kind of thing. I

mean and the thing is it was, like, happening at at

at a rapid rate. It wasn't, like, subtle. It was just, like, all day

long by me talking to angels. I'm seeing this stuff, happening,

and I started feeling like, oh my gosh. I'm not alone. This is great. Okay?

So alright. Angels were playing. So that went on for a couple days, and it

I had already felt so much better in my body, in my life. It was

like I felt Mike this weight had lifted. And so I

had started believing in angels, you know, officially starting to believe, like,

okay. There's something going on here that's really weird. Now I am a psychotherapist,

so I know what sounds crazy. Right? So so, you know, but it's

happening. So what am I gonna do? Deny it? But it was really the craziest

thing that happened was on day 3 when I was driving down the hood, through

the hood in LA going to 1 of my client's house, And, it's

Mike broad daylight. No 1 else is on the street, but this bird drops, lands

right in front of me and drops from the sky, lands right in front of

me. It's about pigeon sized. And as I drove around

it, the 1 wing was, trying to push itself

up. The the bird was kind of scooting around a little bit, but I could

see, like, the other wing was mangled. And so I was,

like, kinda you know, it's kind of fairly grotesque feeling.

Like, oh my god. This is, like, so sad right now. What's happening? And here

I am in this angel bliss, and then bam, like, bird carnage right in front

of me. What's this about? And so, but I did the thing. You know, I

did what I've been doing the last couple of days, which is talking to angels.

So I asked the angels to take this bird, out of its suffering. As

I drove around it, I just kinda kept, you know, praying and doing, you

know, the thing. And, as I looked in the rearview

mirror, I watched the bird start shimming a little bit on the ground.

And, as I kept on watching a bird hopped up, a small

tiny bird about this size, about an inch or 2 tall,

hopped up from that bird, flew away. Then a second bird hopped up

from the body of that bird and flew away. And then a third bird that

was a little smaller, a little wobblier, jumped up from the body

of that bird and flew away. And Well, when I read about

this in the book, that's where I was like first of all, I was not

expecting that coming. I was like, oh, the bird would just get up. Like, I

knew, I think, the bird's gonna get up and fly away. Not that the bird

is gonna weirdly reproduce I know. It's weird. Like, and and divide

itself. It divided. Yeah. Divided. So was the bird body still

was the original bird body still there? No. That's the thing. And, you know, usually,

what I would do when I'm driving through the hood as a single woman out

there, I'm not gonna get out of the car because it's dangerous. Right?

Yeah. Right? But after I saw that, I got out of the dang

car and went to go inspect, and there was nobody left

on the ground. And I'm telling you, I could feel Mike, what's the words? Mike,

goosebumps. I call them angel bumps, but it was Mike the static in the air.

And I re and this incredible love, feeling,

and I really don't have words to describe the feeling that went along with that.

But I knew that I had just witnessed a miracle, at least I thought

I did, and it really changed me. Well, I find that

interesting too because it seems like, that's Mike

classical religious ecstasy you experience, you know,

when you're talking about the bliss, the feeling and the the

static in the air that there's something, you know,

otherworldly happening or at least outside of what we would

consider our mainstream physical materialist experience. And

I love that, you know, that's happening to you, like, in just out of nowhere.

It's and those experiences are, I think, the

most interesting because we we think of,

religious or ecstatic experiences. You think, well, it's gotta come

through like a a monk that meditates for a

week, or would come through the guy in the monastery that's

beating himself with the, you know, the hair shirt and, like, cataean

tails or whatever, like, for his sins. And

those that those things have to come through periods of intense

physical manifestation, or it happens to, you know, people's,

blow it out of their minds having mushroom trips in the Amazon rainforest kinda

thing. That's when you expect to have religious ecstasy or after you

touch the face of God. But, you know, in several situations,

that we've talked about previously in the show too, even historically,

people have had, like, just been doing something else, thinking about

something else. And then, you know, something happens. There was,

Mary Chenoweth was a psychic in the, late 19th

century in Wisconsin, and she used to call it the

power. And she was a regular it's a school teacher, but then

the power would give her ideas. And, eventually, it made her

a, millionaire, you know, kinda thing. But

she was, like, sweeping the floor, and all of a sudden, she was struck by

it. Okay. And that that kinda hap so your experience

really reminded me of that of that, these,

ecstatic experiences that people have had, throughout history

where it's not you didn't you weren't like, oh my god. I touched the I

I touched the face of Jesus after I meditated for a week. It was I

was driving, and I hit a bird. And so in the in the least

expected times, and and so I I thought that was really, an

interesting kind of origin that turns you into, Mike, you know

what? I'm a skeptic about angels, but I saw 3 birds

emerge from 1 bird's dead body. I'm

in. I I was definitely in. I

was I was listening for sure after that. And,

yeah, I mean, what are the odds driving through a ghetto

in Los Angeles that it's gonna happen there, and the bird

just stops me right in my tracks, essentially. But, but

yeah. No. And what's cool is not just the event that

happened. It's what transpired afterwards where it was Mike, that

was just the first miracle of many miracles that

happened in my life. Just me sitting here talking to you today,

it's like it's still it's still manifesting from

that first moment. You know, when they said we were talking to angels or

when you got that first angel healing you know, when we think of angels, there's

a couple of of ways that people think about them traditionally. First of all, you

have the idea of the angel of the person sitting on the cloud

playing the harp and, you know, saying hallelujah all day.

Or you have the idea of, John Milton

and his army of angels Mhmm. You know, fighting off Satan

and that kind of business. So, what what

kind of angels are are these that you deal with in the angel experiment?

Yeah. I mean, you know, technically, they're archangels.

I see them as frequencies. So it's more like working,

alchemy. And so angels, they they different angels

have different frequencies, different vibrations. I

have yet to see 1 show up playing a harp. Mostly,

I feel the presence. And so I'm I'm an empath. I can feel the

presence of spirit or angels when they're with me, and they feel different,

very different than if it's a, just a regular spirit or ghost.

And, and so there's a lot of debate as to what angels really are.

Some people think they're interdimensional beings, space aliens. Some people

think, you know, they're often some, you know, heaven up there. All I know is

that they're right here right now for all of us, and they can help us

with the most practical things. Right? They can help

us open up a career path, a life purpose, help us

manifest a a better life, cash, health, all I mean, all of

these things. And so this is that that day started my journey and really

discovering, how to continue to work with with this these

energies practically to help serve my clients. Although it was

kind of tricky introducing angel work into my clientele. Oh, yeah. Because it's

not covered by insurance. Like, psychotherapy is covered by insurance. But, like, when you

start throwing in, being like, okay. Well, today, we're gonna talk to Raziel,

and he's the angel. And you're like, what? And then, you know, all of a

sudden, the insurance company is, like, denied. I know. How do you how do you

sneak that in there? It was so awkward. It was so awkward in the beginning

because here I am, you know, it it was, like, confronted with my with

my traditional education and then the truth of what was

emerging. And here I am sitting with the suffering, someone sitting in front of me.

And so, really, what started happening is that they're telling me, oh my gosh. I

wanna die and all this stuff. And then I I could no longer, you know,

hold it back because I could feel the presence of angels starting to come into

the room. And, like, at a certain point, you just gotta go, hey. You wanna

try something weird? And that's really how I would start. I would start doing

angel healing on them. And and when they're really like, when people

are really suffering, just like when I was really suffering, no one's gonna kick anything

good out of bed. They'll try anything if they're suffering. So I started

introducing that. And then, when people started

healing radically, like, started having radical fast mental health cures

and all of this stuff, I mean, we had people who were crying for 6

months. I remember this woman, she had postpartum, and she just couldn't freaking

sleep. And she she couldn't be happy, and she's suffering

deeply. And so I did I did 20 minutes of

angel work with her. She was open to it because, again, she didn't even have

people don't even have to believe in it. Like, I'll believe in it for you.

And the spirit believes in it for you. You don't have to believe in it.

Just be open to it. So she, she was open to it. And I

she had emailed to me a couple days later saying, ever since our session, I've

been able to sleep, and I stopped crying. So Well, you

know and is is it really that much different than, like,

Freudian dream analysis or, you know, things like that? You know, when you you go

in there, and you're,

saying, okay. Let's take a different tack than what we've been doing.

Mhmm. And even if it's, you know, even if you're dealing with another symbolic

level, that seems to still have an effect.

Yeah. I leave it open for people. People if people didn't feel better thinking that

angels are just inner symbols and archetypes, fine. I'll work with

that. All I know I'm not here to to to split hairs with people.

I'm just here to do the work. So believe whatever you wanna believe, and I'll

believe what I believe, but we're gonna we're gonna handle some business. And it's

interesting too because when you're talking about

angels and we're reading through the different days and the

different exercises of the angel experiment, which really to me seems

like a, well, like a

almost like a grimoire Wendy you think of the idea that you

are doing these experiments to,

and exercises that try to point your life in the right direction

or, you know, point your lane into getting what you want out of your life,

which a lot of times is not being sad all the Mike,

or feeling, healing from grief

and not only depression, but just trauma, maybe. Mhmm.

And so all those kind of things. And it's it's interesting because we

interviewed doctor Dean Radin about his book Real Magic last year. We were talking

about that. And when you get into

chaos magic Oh. It certainly

has the same kind of thing. I mean, you are they

conjure entities Mhmm. You know, is part of it where it's like

you ask this particular entity for help and you ask this, you know, and,

they have this, They go through, and these entities are all out of this, like,

17th century book of different demons and angels. And

it's Enoki and it's I think it's an Enoki and magic. Yeah. That's

exactly right. And it's exactly it's it's the same kind of idea, that

you guys are doing in in the angel experiment. And I just thought that was

interesting because it's Mike a different spin on it. Mhmm. So chaos magicians

have a they're all they're always trying to do things to, like,

some it seems I'm on the chaos magic Reddit board or whatever, and I

sort of read what people talk about. And, you know, when people are talking about

they're doing things like, well, I'm trying to do magic to get a better job

or trying to do magic so I can be better with my girlfriend. All these

different kind of things. And that's they're they're using that mode

because it works for them. Uh-huh. And so you can see that people who were

maybe a little fluffier, would well, the dudes

who were dressed up in all black and that kind of thing, they're not gonna

be sitting there like, I'm gonna go talk to angels. They're gonna go talk to

stuff from a 17th century creature or something. And so this is

the kind of thing where people can achieve the same kind

of thing, I think, but who may not be

or who may be scared because they might think those, like, magic stuff is satanic

or whatever. Right. It's like the association with the the occult is, like, a

little too much for them sometimes. But yeah. And

so, you know, getting into it, how did you

start differentiating who the angels were? Like, when I'm going down the

list, from Michael, Metatron,

Azrael, Uriel, you know, it just I mean, you get a whole

bunch of them, and they're all, based out of, the

bible and the the Talmud and things like that. How do you

differentiate, 1 angel from the other? Like, is he Mike,

hey. I'm Michael. How you do I mean or does he look like, you

know, John Travolta did in the movie? You know, it's so funny because the

first time I would connect with archangel Michael, I'd, like, developed a crush on

him. I mean, that's probably really inappropriate, but it's okay. The angels know who

I am. They know I'm a little inappropriate. So

And they also know humans are humans. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So they don't care.

But, so, yeah, some of it is from research and and working

with these, energies intuitively. So over the years, I've

been working more deeply with opening up my intuition and and learning more

about energy and learning how to do more healing work and stuff like Mike. And,

you know, always being guided from spirit into what I was gonna

learn. But really Wendy came to the set the 21

days of, the angel experiment and how I set up the days,

I would sit every day and ask for, an

archangel to come forward because I wanted to mostly work with the archangels.

And then I would essentially channel

the feeling or the new thought or the opening that they wanted to

give the people for that day. And so I

learned about them all through experience, not just through

books. I mean, I did put explanations, general explanations of the archangels in there,

but I really don't want people to get stuck on any how anyone

else defines anything. I much prefer people to enter into

this field of possibility and magic and discover for

themselves the truth. Okay. Because I thought I was saying, like, specifically, like, if you

look into the history of some of the angels. Right? You know, it's that Michael

is I mean, he's the leader of God's army.

Mhmm. You know, Eric Eric Roberts plays him in the prophecy too.

You know, if you wanna, But that that movie is all about the war in

heaven or whatever. I think John John Travolta played him too.

Right. No. Yeah. John Travolta played in the movie Mike. Yeah. He, like, sprouts wings

in part of it. No. No. I saw it in the theater. But also

so he's the leader of the army of God, and he's the angel of death

that carries souls from earth to heaven. Is it, like, a specific

if you look at the different origins or what people said he

did in the hierarchy. And so then, like, how does

he present himself? Or were you when you're when

you're going in there and you're saying, okay. I wanna set people up with angels.

Why start with Michael? Or how did you know, that

I mean, a he I think it's weird to use a gender for

creations that do not reproduce sexually, so they are gender free.

But, how would you, you know, how did you know that Michael was a good

1 to start with? Well, Michael is just the the ultimate,

kick kick butt warrior, and, you know, what we're all up

against is a bunch of negativity and fear based energy. And

so working with archangel Michael, if that's all people did, they would still

see major results. Right? Because he's really good at

at well, he right? Well, you know but but people

people experience the presence of archangel Michael in different

ways. So if I'm standing up and I invoke him, do an

invocation, my whole body it it's like he lands on my feet and

my whole body, like, tips forward. So then I know, okay. That's Michael. Some people

it's it's some or sometimes you can just feel a lot of heat. So when

people you know, so everybody has their own unique

feeling about how these archangels will appeal to them.

And so that's why I don't like to give a lot of rules of thumb.

It's just, you know, I'm all about experimenting, and you practice and you practice and

you practice until you get a certain result. And so okay.

So let's start I mean, so Michael feels like you feel like you're gonna

tip over. Like, it's a For me. Yeah. Yes. You know, it's a it's an

overwhelming, like, hey, Corinne. How are you doing? I know. It's cool.

And, so when people are trying out the angel

experiment, like, what can they expect to try to do?

So I think so people don't do they think that they have to have their,

like, own room in an hour a day for some kind of meditation? Do they

need candles? Do they need special pillows? Like, if

somebody said, oh, Corinne, I'm buying your book. What do I need to,

you know, what do I need to do to get ready to give myself 3

weeks of giving it a shot? Yeah. Okay. Well, I walk

everybody through step by step exactly what to do. I do recommend

creating a sacred space in your house if you don't have 1. And that's just

really, you know, a place that people go to kind of connect with spirit or

pray, but that could be like as simple as a little candle or maybe just

a little crystal. It could be really elaborate. So I give

different options in the book. And it really, it really is

a beautiful thing to do to create a little sacred space in your home because

you're constantly reminding yourself you're engaged in in an

experiment, and you're calling in the sacred into your life. And I just

find when you go agree with you on that completely. And it's it's funny

because I used to think that was just BS. I had

a 1 time, we were my band was touring, and we were through,

oh, like, way up north in Minnesota. Like, it's, like, almost

to Fargo. Like, we were at the it's the edge of the world, like the

headwaters of Bemidji, Minnesota. Mhmm. And, you'd play

2 nights, and you'd stay with this couple who did all the booking and everything.

And we brought some crew with us 1 time, and we were

looking for places for the crew to sleep. And she's like, oh, well,

they could sleep in here, but this is kinda it's kinda like

my female sacred space and bringing in the energies weird.

And, you know, obviously, they're like, what the hell?

Like, come on. You know? But then I realize that

it's the things that make it sacred, the things that make things special.

Like, I you know, that that's how I think of, like, a a performance or

on stage. They're like, you you treat it sacred, and it

does change everything around it by

and and those arbitrary rules that I used to think were so silly or

whatever are what makes it work.

Yeah. Interesting. Yes. So that's that's where

you're you know, when you're saying that, I I would say, like, 20 years ago,

I'd been like, give me a break, Corinne. Sacred space. Just use the

just use the corner and shut up. But no. III think

you're a 100% like that idea of creating that in I think that

changes just by creating that space in your house in the first place

Wow. Is a is a start and will change things a little

bit. Oh, gosh. It is so true. I've had such incredible things happen

just by setting up a sacred space, whether it's, like, at a hotel. I I

have a travel sacred space that I take with me. It's smaller.

It's cute. It's petite, but, you know, it works. But,

yeah, I love it. I've had incredible experiences just setting 1

up in, like, a new house. You know? And you could just feel, like, the

radiance. It's it's just, like, this beautiful portal to spirit. And, yeah,

if you kind of create a sacred space inside your home, then your home

becomes sacred. Your life becomes sacred. And, and, I've

and I have lots of people writing to me about how much they love that

process and they had never done it before, but they just love that process. So

many people, maybe they go to church, and they think of just church as being

the only place that's sacred. But Right. What happens when you can just

bring it right right next to you? And so that's the the first step is

that in in in another 21 days is make that space in your home.

Then once they kinda get that going, what do you think is the next important

thing so they can get ready so that they can give the 21 days the

best, you know, the best shot they can, the the best

college try they can. Best shot. Okay. It's really important that if you're gonna

do the Wendy day angel experiment, that you

have to read every section of the book. I said III have a section

called pro tips for success, and it's super easy read. But it

tells you kind of what to look for and and how to kind of

think of things. And some some of the stuff takes a little mind shift, a

little quick mind shift. So, read through that

because, we just want you to be set up properly.

And I I really want you to treat this it it it is an

experiment. It's just that your life is the laboratory. And

so be prepared to keep records, have something you could keep

records of cool experiences. We just talked about synchronicities amping up

when you're working with angels, and people start getting,

feeling peace right away. As a matter of fact, someone just posted something in 1

of my, my 7 day miracle challenge Facebook group. And there's a lot of people

who just got the book and they're sharing their experiences. But someone yesterday, just she

said, I just got the book and this in my mailbox, and it was a

check for $12,000. She said, I didn't know this was coming, but now I don't

have to take out a loan. I'm like, great.

Right. Well, that's, Mike, I mean, that's the kind of synchronicity we'd all like to

get. Yeah. I know. But just that that's possible. I just love you know, because,

we have a robust community online, and we love sharing these cool stories. Right? So

we love hearing I love hearing about this stuff. I mean, I it never gets

old for me. It just deepens my my kind of faith that this stuff is

real, and the more that we're all privy to the fact that you have allies

that are sitting right there, I mean, you know, angels they they

we need to make them cool again because angels are cool, and they're here for

everybody. And it doesn't matter if you're religious or on a certain spiritual

path or not a certain spiritual path or whatever. It doesn't matter. They don't care,

So you shouldn't either. Well, you know, I would say that if you guys wanna

think angels are cool, watch the prophecy because Christopher Walken's an

angel, and anything he's in is gonna be cool. It's not

like Valerie Bertinelli in Touched by an Angel or whatever. I mean, I

can I can see if you like that, but I can see where people are

like, well so I'm with you? I do think

that there's a way to make angels cool, and,

that's a it's it's a good crusade to be on.

You what I think here, though, that it's important. You just said, like, read every

section of the book, if you're gonna try it. And that gets back

to is that idea in magic. The important part

isn't necessarily it's not necessarily

that the intention's always there even though the

intention is important, but the ceremony, like, even

if your intention isn't there, going through every aspect of the ceremony. I

Wendy have, like, boiling the eye of newt. Like, make sure it's boiled

or whatever. You gotta go through those parts of the

ceremony to make it work. So no matter how silly

the ceremony feels, and even if you feel it's silly, it seems

to be that the process of the

ceremony going through each bit of it is

what helps somehow your unconscious or the

angels or God or universe or whatever you wanna say, it

helps you point it in the right direction, and it's that ceremony that counts.

And so I just wanted to get like, when you said, like, we'll read the

entire book. Like, that's giving it the college try or whatever is by going

through each piece, and it seems to be that that's how,

quote, unquote, magic works. You have to go through each

piece. Yeah. I think preparation. But, you know, preparation.

And the beginning of the book is really easy to get through. You can burn

through it in, like, a day or, like, a couple hours probably. So but it

is important not to skip ahead because by in

by opening yourself up to these steps and really giving it the old

college try, you're really setting yourself up for

success. And we are hardwired for ceremony. Ritual is fun,

and we forgot how to do ritual. You know, in the West, we don't really

get into it the way, we probably did in the past, but

but it just feels good. We people like it, and it helps open us up

to, these beautiful benevolent forces that are there

right now to support us. Well, you know, I think that's an interesting point too

because I think about, when I went to church in my youth,

and it was just a drag. And you're like, oh, my god. Church.

And then, when I would have friends that went

to, like, Latin countries for study abroad and

things, they'd be like, yeah. We all went to church on Sunday, and it was

awesome because, like, everybody went. The whole community went, and then we were talking

around afterward. Like, the community based part of it, like, the ritual was

important to it, and that created, like, where it was

fun, to go even though it was the same

mass just in Spanish instead of English and Latin. Right? And you're

like, man. Like, it was always just a bummer for me.

So you are you're correct. I think we we we gave rituals a bad

name, in the west, and so people are scared of it because they're just

like, I've been to trust me. I've been to church. I know what happens.

Exactly. I know there's been so much bad press about ritual, about

angels. I mean, we're we gotta bring the sexy back to all of that stuff.

Well and so we should talk about some of the other angels. And who are,

like, your favorites of the of the ones that,

you feel have you've connected with?

First of all, the you you already said the angels are in different frequencies, and

they feel different. So, like, what's what's your favorite frequency?

Oh, gosh. I think it just depends on on what I'm going through and what

I'm doing. You know? So so I've noticed for me, if I go through

different initiations or I'm working with different things, like,

let's say writing this book. So when I was writing this book, Archangel

Raziel was around a lot, really kind of helping me. And it's so

interesting because the cover of this book,

was done by my, by my publisher, but they put sacred

geometry behind there. I never talked to them about sacred geometry. I don't even

I don't even talk about sacred geometry in in the book, but they

put sacred geometry on there, and archangel Raziel governs

that stuff. He's Yes. The the keeper of secrets. Yeah. He's the keeper of

secrets, a master magician. So he is all over this book. He was helping

me essentially bring the power to of the ritual, And so

they, you know, they infuse the work that I do, the whatever courses they infuse

it with their energy. So Raziel was, like, was, you know, showing up

even in the on the cover here. And, and so it depends on

what I'm doing. So in the beginning, archangel Michael, right, he had his work cut

out for me, because I was living so dark and in such a dark

place. So he he really helped, I feel, usher me out

of a really dark period in my life and and help open up my

my energy channels in my life to not not all that fear based stuff, but

I was able to begin hearing the voice of love and and,

the voice of hope and inspiration and possibility. And really, the things I

do today, never could have been possible without the angels

because I I did not believe in myself. I had an extraordinarily low self

esteem. I didn't feel like I had anything to offer. So archangel Michael is just

really great at just cutting through the crap. Just cut through the crap, get to

your juicy essence. Well and so but we talk about that. So when

you say, I mean, we we talk about the the synchronicities that were happening, and

then you see a miracle of the the 3 birds flying

around. Like, what then, is the next step?

Or, like, how do you like, was it through meditation? Was it through

prayer? Was it through like, how then did, you

start go from just having a cool angel healing experience

to the archangel Mike stepping on my feet?

I know. Well, I just started playing more because then I after the miracle, it

was you you well, you can put that back in a bag and pretend like

that didn't happen. But because I was changing so much, like I said, the, like,

years of my trauma was disappearing. I was waking up wanting to

be awake and alive, wanting to engage in

Mike. So I just kept in communion and kept it kept

doing, just sitting with them and do and that's where I kind

of developed some of these rituals here of just opening up the space

for them to come into my life. So slowly but surely,

they guided me to different things, and they guided me in my

sessions to try different things that I had never tried. Like, hey, I'm gonna just

ask archangel Michael to to heal you. How about that? Like, that was

really random for me, but, you know, I just learned to trust my intuition.

And that's something that is really important for us all, that there's, you know,

we we kind of overemphasize just logic and just, you

know, just logic and rational thinking, which is so great.

Scientific revolution was was amazing in a lot of different ways, but it's

knocked the magic out of us. So, so working with our

intuition and really trusting that we have access to

incredible things is a good start. So that's what I started to do. They they

started, you know, helping me see how important it was to trust my

gut, my intuition, to listen to the good voice, the positive voice, and not not

all that negativity that's trying to constantly suck us down. When you were

working with, some of your, therapy patients

Mhmm. Like, when did you decide when were you Mike, alright,

There's a lot of psychotherapists out there that can do the traditional stuff. When did

you make the move to be like, I'm gonna be the angel lady? Because that's

that's a big step, especially because you to get a therapist

career I know. Is a lot of school, a lot of time Yeah.

And effort. And then to, take this

step and and jump in to be Mike, I'm gonna help

people spiritually instead of just shrink their

heads or whatever. Like, that's a like, what was that, you know,

when you were ready to go? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that was a weird process,

but, but not that weird. It was actually pretty

natural, but I had to confront my pride and Yeah. You know, and be

willing to come out of the angel closet. I used to call it angel shame.

I had angel shame. Like, I wouldn't wanna talk about it to anybody. And, actually,

I didn't even I didn't even tell anybody about the the miracle for a couple

years. Right? And so, but I knew what was happening to Mike. And I

started kind of, like, little gorilla tactics in my office,

started, you know, being like, hey. You wanna do some agent work, you know, and

see see what happens? But because it really was because the results that people were

having were so radical, I started putting my

education, and my pride aside for the

truth because my goal was always to just help people, and I'm gonna help them

in the the best way and the fastest way that I know how. And the

spiritual and healing work that I was doing was freaking, like,

working in lightning speed compared to, let's just talk about your childhood for

5 freaking years. Right? And so, so we could handle

it in 30 minutes or we could talk more for 5 years. How what do

you what do you wanna do? And so, yeah, that's how it started. But, yeah,

when I started coming out of the spiritual closet to my colleagues, that was really

interesting because people had a lot of, judgment about that, and I knew

they would. Well and and, like, what how about your husband though too? Because he's

Mike you know, he's thinking, well, we're making good psychotherapist

money, and I hope I hope your I hope your angels have a

checkbook. I know. It's so I know. It was awkward, okay?

He's very grounded, very traditional, very, you

know, fact based. And here I am going in this weird direction, wanting

to invest in, you know, more in trainings that have nothing

to do with my chosen career, with money we don't have, and where our house

is going into foreclosure. And are you sure you need to go to this thing?

And it's Mike, I I just it just seems like fun. I just I just

feel like I gotta go. And so but here's the thing. You know, we've been

at this now for about 10 years, and he's see

he's a believer now. He didn't start to be a believer, but he's watched me.

He's watched what's happened in our Mike, and he's he sees, Mike,

okay. Now he sees miracles now. He can see it. Did he

do any of the experiment? Did he, like, run does he ever come with you

and be like, alright. I'll do some angel stuff with you? Yeah. Well, you know

what's so funny? When I started getting, gaining more popularity and

having more success and people you know, things were really happening for

people, he would wanna want an angel session with me, and I'd be like, you're

gonna have to book a session, and I'm gonna charge you double. Like, I just

he's Mike, no. So friends and family, you always charge double for stuff

like that. Right? You don't give him a family discount. That's crazy.

Not even the angels go for that. Like, hey. They understand. I know. It's just

Mike keep you gotta keep your friends and family out of your practice for Pete's

sake. They're nothing but headaches. But, but, no, he he's a

he's a believer, and he helps me a lot. He does I I do a

I have a member site where I do live, I send audios,

energy healing audios to people every Sunday, and he helps he helps,

edit those because he's an audio designer. So he has radical sometimes

radical insights and experiences doing that, But, you know, I don't try and force

it on him. He doesn't he's he's just coming along for the sweet ride.

Okay. Now, you know, earlier, I noticed you

said that, ghosts and spirits seem to have

a different energy than angels. And you're like, oh, I can tell when it's an

angel that versus a ghost. And I'm like, put the brakes on

for a second and, like, it was this something you had

did could you always tell? Were you intuitive naturally, like, when you were younger? Did

you have any kind of experiences like that? No. Not really. No. This is this

all got activated after the miracle happened. Like, my my some of my

spiritual gifts got activated. And the more that I did angel healing sessions

with people, sometimes they would bring crossed over loved ones to come and talk to

the person if there was some unfinished business there that needed to

be healed. I didn't straight up, like, go, oh, I'm gonna be a medium. It's

just that it's a byproduct of working with angels sometimes. So, like, when I train

people how to do angel work, we do have to train them in mediumship too

just in case that happens. But, yeah, when a crossover loved 1 comes around, I

was shocked because it's not it they it's like talking to

just regular people. It's just talking to people. But when

angels kinda come in, there's a different thing. It's like a effervescence.

And I for me, I get more, physical physical

sensations, like angel bumps, like, you know, there's feathers, like stroking up and

down my spine kind of thing. But it there's a palpable

difference. And, you know, knowing now knowing a lot of intuitives and

mediums, they all kind of agree. There's a whole different energy. None is better than

the other. You just know you know, just the every being, including you, has

your own energy signature. Okay. And I'm just thinking about because

I never have any kind I've never talked to anything from the other side or

whatever. And and so I I always wonder, like, does it

look like somebody's in the room? Does it a voice you hear in

your ears? Is it like you said, so the the angel bumps is a good

description. So now we're getting some you have a physical

sensation Mhmm. That a sense that's out you know, that

like, when I'm talking to you right now, I'm not stroking a feather down your

back. Like, if you're having this thing, like Mike. So you you

get that physical sensation. And then what does it sound like in your

ears? Like, how do you get the the words correct? Yeah. Okay. So

it all depends on what your gifts are, what your spiritual gifts are. So,

so some people are clairaudient. They can actually hear spirit and

hear the voices. Okay? Sometimes that can go south if you're not listening to

the right voices. So you have to be careful if you're clairaudient. Don't listen to

the bad guys. Right? But, clairsentience, feelers can

feel, the you know, and start discerning the the energy.

So let's say, like, I'm in a session. This is back in the day. I

don't do a lot of 1 on 1 these days anymore, but I train people

how to do it. Mike, 1 time I had, I

was doing an angel session, and then I had someone start tapping me, like and

it felt like a person tapping me on the hand, which had never happened to

me before. So I stopped I stopped the session, and it was, this

person's mother-in-law who had crossed over a couple let me

maybe about a couple of months before that. So it can come in a lot

of different ways. Sometimes I could and when so for

me, a lot of it is just a feeling. I get a feeling of what's

being said. I don't always hear. Sometimes I do hear. It just depends on

really the the being that's connecting with you and and how you're

choosing to receive it in that moment. But I learned, like, don't sit

and wait for a full apparition and, oh, because someone's going to hand you know,

someone's going to tap you on the hand or whatever. Don't wait for all of

that. Most of us do pick up on on these things. Like, I I did

not I was not 1 of those people who was like, oh, I've been talking

to dead people my whole life. Like, it you know? I meet a lot I

meet a lot of those people. Right? I know. I'm wondering about it. I know.

You do. But this is why I talk about this so so much is that

we all have access to this stuff. It's just a matter of learning to

reattune and open start flexing those muscles. So, Mike,

literally, you could take a training in the weekend and talk to talk to a

dead person and have it validated more than likely within, like, a few

days. You know? I've never seen nobody and I've

trained hundreds of people all over the world. I've never seen anybody

not be able to do it. It's just a matter of being interested in it,

curious about it, and letting yourself, get it wrong

sometimes. You know? And so when people would do would go through, like, this

angel experiment here, who do you feel

out of the various angels and stuff in there? Are any of

the angels, let's say, not necessarily

amoral, but when you think about, like, the Lovecraftian view of, like,

the indifferent universe, and you think these

angels are spirits on a different or creatures are on a different level.

And even in the Christian Judeo Christian

hierarchy, there's, you know, angels are separated

from humans as God's, like, first creation and stuff.

Like, are all the angels on our Mike? Or some angels, like,

they'll help you if they feel like it? You know, you think even the Greek

gods, when you think about the Greek gods, there's some Greek gods that are, like,

really wanna do stuff for humans and some Greek gods that think of humans

begrudgingly. Yeah. So are so are these

angels different personality wise? Yeah. Well, you know, I

there's more than so I I'm working with archangels, but there's, like,

tons and tons of angels out there, and some of them are considered fallen

angels. So, so we don't necessarily work with those, but

they are constantly kind of in our space trying to get us to do

trying to trying to get us to do things that we're ashamed of or we

don't like, or they're, you know, kinda in our ear telling us to hate ourselves

and stuff like that. Or that's what I found. And that's what I've, that's my

belief at this stage in the game. But Well, that's what I

was thinking about because you have a day where you, like, contact Azrael.

And, like, in dogma, Jason Lee plays Azrael, and he's Mike

a fallen angel. Yeah. So in but in your cosmology,

Asriel's still on our side. Well, Asriel okay. I

think, you know, people might misinterpret Asriel because he helps with the

threshold of death, meaning he helps people who are crossed over

get to the other side, and he also helps alleviate grief.

So so, Azrael, I I don't have a negative

energy or a negative but but, again, this stuff is, like, for us

to really discover for ourselves. These are angels that I

feel are benevolent, and sometimes I feel like we don't know how

to enlist their help in a powerful way. And that's

why they're not hearing us. It's not like, oh, I don't really like you. I

don't know. Yeah. Yeah. But we but we but we you

know, because again, you know, after years of doing this stuff and and

helping people through this, most people through these Wendy day

programs, especially if they actually finish them, will start gaining insights on their

own and gaining inspiration. And let's say 1 day doesn't

feel like anything happened for you. It's just it's still adding to this

alchemy in in your heart, mind, and life. And so,

I it's freaking fun. It's just fun work, and it's crazy.

And it gets crazy weird and awesome and miraculous and cool things

happen for people. Well, I I think also anytime that you're

spending, meditating, thinking,

journaling, and spending time directing your life in

the, you know, correct orientation, it's going to have a

it's gonna have a positive effect. Exactly. And and, you know, reading through your book,

that's exactly the it it puts you it puts people in that positive,

orientation, I really thought. And as someone

and I've seen a couple of things I I think are miraculous.

And but as someone like you who's you you know, you've experienced

a bunch of miracles, is there any 1 in particular that you were

like, alright. This is the blockbuster miracle. Mike, the like,

I can't you know, this this 1 that even I have a hard time believing.

Yeah. I mean, I it's hard to beat the a bird dividing into 3.

That's a big 1. I'm with you. Big 1. I'll give you the next 1

because it's so it's somewhat pertinent. It's pertinent to our conversation.

Okay. When I was developing this book and and I

you know, I've I've I've created a lot of courses. I've done you know,

I usually don't have a problem finishing something. Right? But this book

was, like, haunting me, and I just couldn't make myself finish no

matter what. And so I sit with Spirit, and I was like, what's the dealio?

Right? Like, why is this not working out, and why can't I finish it? And

they said, it's because you're you're trying to self publish it, and you're supposed to

have a a traditional publisher. You need to find someone to

to publish your book. And I was like, you know, okay.

But, yeah, I'm not gonna that's a lot of work, and I was Yeah. Super

busy at the time. So I was like, okay. We're gonna wait another 3

years then. So I was teaching this I was doing this

week long ceremony. I brought 25 people out to the woods, and we did all

this good stuff out there. I invited my friend to come and support,

the team or support the people there. And so on the way back,

she's like, hey. Can we stop by my new client's house? And I said,

sure. You know, she's like, yeah. I just she's

from Canada, but he he's lives right off the freeway

on her way home. So can we stop? And I was like, sure. So turns

out that this man, is the the

owner of the the published New World Library, the

publisher who published my book, who's published amazing authors, you know, like

Eckhart Tolle and stuff like this. So in that moment, I

was Mike and it was about maybe about 6 weeks after,

after III was told, you're gonna get a publisher. You need a real

publisher. So I was like, oh my god. Maybe this is it. Dang it, angels.

But I can't pimp myself out. Like, I knew that if I went in there,

I was not gonna be able to say anything because I I just would freeze

up. You know? So I told my Wendy, it's Mike, it's too bad because I

can't actually tell him I have a book that needs to get published. And

so he looks at me in the middle of a cappuccino that he made for

us, and he looks right at me and he says, do you have a book?

And I said, yes, I do. Thank you for asking. And I started you know,

on the inside, I was, like, you know, 15 teenage girls jumping

and jumping jumping for glee. On the outside, I just seemed

very composed. Like, why, yes, I do. Thank you for asking.

But but yeah. So that is was the beginning of of how this book

got published. It still had to go through committee, but it was like, woah.

It was, like, weeks after they told me I'm gonna get a publisher. So that

kind of thing, has happened a lot. No. I I love to hear about

little synchronicities like Mike, and, it's been a pleasure talking to you today, Corinne, and

I wanna thank you very much for joining us. Now, obviously, we're

gonna have links to the book and Corinne's website at the show notes, otherside

podcast dot com slash 275. But if you are too lazy to

go to the show notes and you just wanna go in your browser and find

her right now, Corinne, where can they find you? Corinnegrillo.com.

It's coringrill0.com,

or you can also find me on Facebook, my

Facebook page, and find our community 7 day miracle challenge in our

in Facebook. So you guys can, try that out for yourself and,

see what happens when you take The Angel Experiment, a Wendy day

magical adventure to heal your life.

Corinne's story of overcoming her melancholy and keeping fighting the good

fight even when she was thinking of quitting it all is heartening

whether you believe in angels or not. Her idea of everyday

miracles that people can see in their own life is a way of showing

gratitude for the good things that do happen. Her story,

plus the thought of angels as warriors with flaming swords, was the

inspiration behind this week's track, The Battle of

Everyday.

This is the battle of everyday.

This is the war to fight

everyday. We need more than a pair to make it go

away. Are you safe? Are

you safe? Sometimes you

want

These just don't give up.

And the better angels of our nature will

fight for us 1 more day.

This is the battle of every day.

This is the conflict of will power versus hurt.

This is the struggle where we pray.

For the strength to keep ourselves out of the

dirt every day,

every day, where every

single victory feels like it's just in vain.

Are you safe?

You're not just up against the whole world. You're

fighting your own brain. Tomorrow

never comes.

We get 1 moment that we can never change.

Please just don't give up.

And the better angels are. All I make sure will

fight for us 1 more day. Tomorrow

Thank you for listening to today's episode. You can find us

online at othersidepodcast.com. Until next

time. See you on the other side. Hello,

friends. This is Wendy. And wow, I am looking forward to trying out

that angel experiment. I'm thinking maybe that'll be a good

resolution for the new year to try that Wendy day challenge.

So thank you so much to Corrine Grillo for joining us today

and to Mike for the excellent job interviewing Corrine. Before we

end this episode, I would just like to take a moment to thank you for

listening to see you on the other side. We really enjoy creating

these episodes. We love the inspiration that comes from the unique topics we

cover, and, and it's super fun to craft new sunspot

songs to go along with those topics. It does take a great deal of time

and effort. So we genuinely appreciate that you include us in your

playlist. Now I would like to send some

extra gratitude to our Patreon community of supporters.

It's a really special group of people, friends of ours who kick in a little

each month and they don't just contribute money, which really does help in keeping

this operation going. But they're also constantly in communication with

us about the specific paranormal topics they're interested in,

questions and things they'd like us to dig deeper into. And also

just fun sharing of things Mike articles and books and

videos that are within the paranormal, world we

love. If you would like to join our community, it's very

easy to do. Just visit othersidepodcast.com/donate,

and you'll see some options for that. 1 of our Patreon members,

doctor Ned, is pledging at a membership level where he's

basically an executive producer of the show. And for that, he gets extra

credit each week. So thank you so much, Ned. Your contribution to this

production is really, truly such a huge help and your support

and your being there and cheering us on along the way always means so much

to us. Once again, if you'd like to join our community, please

visit othersidepodcast.com/ donate. Thank you

so much for listening and have a wonderful week ahead.

Boiling the eye of newt, like make sure it's boiled.