Content warning: This episode contains a mention of miscarriage that is described in some detail. Please take care when listening; if you'd like to avoid that part, it starts around 41:15 and ends by 42:10.

When Rachel Kramer Bussel took a break from law school, she started trying different things. She worked as an admin assistant, wrote erotica on the side, and started a cupcake blog that landed her on The Martha Stewart Show. Her one year leave of absence turned into leaving law forever, but that pivot led Rachel exactly where she was supposed to be. Now, she is a successful writer, editor, consultant, and teacher. We discuss her decision to move away from writing erotica later in life, her enthusiasm for Open Secrets Magazine and sharing other people's stories, and why she's launching a podcast about our attachments to our belongings called Finders and Keepers.

In the second half of the show, we talk about the latest chapter in Rachel's life: motherhood! In 2024, she and her partner adopted a baby. She shares what the adoption process looked like for them, how she felt meeting her daughter for the first time, the predatory Instagram ads targeted at moms, and lots more.

Links:

1. Open Secrets Live Personal Storytelling Summit - May 2, 2026 at Symphony Space in NYC
2. Open Secrets Magazine
3. Rachel's new podcast, Finders & Keepers
4. For more of Rachel and her work, check out her Instagram or website.
5. Emily's website & Instagram.

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I am not thrilled with the Pout Pout Fish series. The one was like, smile, Pout, Pout Fish. And I was like, oh, okay, that looks cute. And then it was basically like, smile even if you're having a bad day. And I'm like, that's like the same thing as when women are walking down the street and guys are like, smile.

Like, why should you have to smile if you're not in a smiling mood?

I have to look up the author of that one because I have a theory that some of the books that make me the most ragey are by boomers.

Hello and welcome to It's A Lot, a podcast about things that are a lot.

On this show we have honest conversations about the highs and lows of social media, parenthood and more. When it comes to complex topics, online discourse can lack nuance and empathy.

That's why we're leaning into deep conversations, making space for conflicting, messy feelings and keeping it real about how we feel. We could all use a little more of that sometimes. I'm your host, Emily Hessney Lynch and today I'm excited to be chatting with Rachel Kramer Bussel. Rachel is a New Jersey based toddler mom and writer.

She's the editor in chief of personal essay magazine Open Secrets and organize the Personal Storytelling Summit, Open Secrets Live that's coming up on May 2nd in New York City. If you're interested, we'll link to that in the show.

Notes her essays on journalism have been published in the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post, and many others. Her work focuses on books, culture, feminism, motherhood, mental health, relationships, personal finance, belonging and belongings.

Rachel also hosts the podcast Finders and Keepers about our attachments to our possessions and is working on an anthology about the same topic. I'm really looking forward to our conversation tonight. Welcome to the show, Rachel.

Thank you so much. I'm excited.

I'm so glad you could be here. I want to get started just talking about your career path. I know you've been writing and editing for a really long time.

How did you actually get started in that field?

I've been writing. It feels like my whole life. I wrote as a teenager letters to the editor, like anywhere and everywhere, New York Times, Vogue, my local newspaper. I didn't really think it was something I could do as a career, but I was doing it in college. I wrote my first op ed that was in the San Francisco Chronicle when I was 19. Just like sending it in.

And I was always kind of like writing these diatribes and kind of rants. And then I went to law school because I did genuinely think that's what I wanted to do with my life.

But at the same time, while I was there, I was at NYU Law and I started writing for the NYU paper and other little like other places. And I think it wasn't like I one day woke up and said, I want to be a writer. It was more, I am not thriving in law school. Like, this is not working.

It took me three years to figure it out. Ultimately, like I stayed even though I was barely going to class. But when that ended and I left, I mean, I officially took a year off, but it wound up being forever off. And so I kind of just worked day jobs, admin assistant jobs, but I was writing on the side and I started writing erotica.

And everything I've done pretty much since law school has kind of been, not sideways, but it's never been something where I said I'm going to set out to do this. Really. Only in the last few years has it been like that.

I pursued a lot of opportunities and I think when I was younger especially, but even now with open secrets, I just try things and see how they'll go. And they, a lot of them aren't things I thought would be a career career, but they wound up being, say, a side hustle.

Like I had a cupcake blog for a long time that just truly started on a whim when people were starting blogs over random topics. And my friends and I wound up being on the Martha Stewart show and we hosted cupcake meetups all over the place.

And I went to Hawaii on vacation and you know, did a cupcake meetup because why not? So I think I've just been open to pursuing different things, maybe because law school failed and I felt like, okay, well, if I'm not going to do this serious career. I'm going to just pursue the things that I'm interested in and hope that it works out. And it did. But it's still a hustle, especially now.

That's really cool though that your path just took you in such unexpected directions and being open to it is what led you there. It kills me that you're like doing cupcake meetups in Hawaii and stuff when you were previously in law school. Clearly law school was not the move!

I still feel like guilty that I left because it would have been nice to have the degree even though I have no interest in being a lawyer. It's not even that I wish I had the knowledge, I just wish I had the degree. Because for whatever reason I still cling to that like, pedigree.

Even though I've done so many other things that I'm super proud of and that I care more about. But like, that is still something that I regret.

If I could do it over again, I would just tough it out and get help and figure out a way to pass, even if it was with Cs. But I'm proud that I didn't just say, okay, I failed at that. I'm like going to fail at everything else.

Like I figured out a way to succeed at these other things even though there was a lot of trial and error in all of those things. And I still feel like, oh my goodness, I've written for the New York Times and like last year I wrote for the Wall Street Journal.

Like I still get those sort of career highs of new things. And that's. I think we might talk about ADHD later. But like, I think there's that dopamine seeking thing of me in me where I want to pursue new things even though they're challenging and they're hard and sometimes they feel crushing, but it's still like I don't like to be bored.

I totally relate to that. Yeah. I was going to jump to ADHD as our next topic because it seems very relevant now. Tell me about like your diagnosis journey for that. Cause I know it was later in life that you got the diagnosis.

It's funny, I don't. I know a lot of people like categorize the diagnosis as this turning point. I don't really categorize it that way. For myself, I sort of had two diagnoses. Like I somewhat diagnosed myself and took my friend's by Vyvanse when she was pregnant and couldn't take it.

So that was only I think a two month supply or something. A long time ago, like maybe 16 years ago. And I just remember the things I was able to do on Vyvanse were amazing.

I was like, wow, this is like having a whole new brain. And then I pursued getting my own prescription for something like that. I think I was given Ritalin that never really panned out. And then I dropped it for a while. And then it was really only when I was 48, slash, maybe I was 49 by the time I did it.

And they don't do controlled substances, so they couldn't do Vyvanse. So they gave me Quelbri, which is more of a slow build than Vyvanse. And it's hard to say.

Like, I think the turning point thing for a lot of people is the realization, but for me, it feels like just an ongoing realization every day that, oh, this behavior that I thought was just my flaw is an ADHD thing.

I think the part where I still need help with, and some of that I do in therapy, but a lot of it I just struggle with and continue to work on is, okay, I know this is an ADHD thing. I'm on medication. I'm trying all the things, but, like, I still have all these behaviors. Like, I still procrastinate.

I still have a really messy office slash bedroom. And often I'm looking for things personally and professionally. And I've started to reconsider whether all those things are bad.

Like the procrastination. I've been doing that. I remember doing it in high school all the time. Like, staying up late and even the sats and just things at college.

I did it, and I don't want to always be stressed about things. I. That's where I think procrastinating has a downside, because you're. I'm still thinking about it all the time and procrastinating it.

But the other night I did a storytelling show and I was just so busy that I didn't have time to work on it beforehand. And I also. Sometimes I'm way ahead on things, and I'll work on something due in June when it's February, because I'm avoiding something due in March.

But I wrote my story, like two hours before I was going to read it. And then. But I've been thinking about it, you know, and I did think about it the day before and earlier in the day, and I kept discarding ideas and then I went with my sort of third option, and then it turned out really well. So I think sometimes, at least for me, my brain kicks into gear when I procrastinate. I just, I struggle. Like, I can't always procrastinate.

And it is stressful. Like when I have an essay I'm supposed to edit and it's gonna go up tomorrow and, you know, I wish I had done it a week ago.

So when I have bursts of inspiration, I might batch edit, like five essays for Open Secrets so that the next five weeks are taken care of. It's just part of it is that I now do maybe five different professional things. And I'm a mom, so it's.

It's hard for me to balance, like, which thing takes priority and it's usually which thing is literally due, like, which has a deadline that is not just involving me, but someone else. So I appreciate the diagnosis.

Like, I identify as having ADHD and I do read about solutions that people have, but I also feel like, especially online, there's so many ADHD consultants newsletters. Like, you could get wrapped up in listening to every ADHD podcast, reading every ADHD book. Like, it can become its own kind of ADHD solution seeking time waster. And so, like, I struggle with figuring out how to actually get stuff done and work on my ADHD at the same time.

I like what you said earlier about starting to shift how you were thinking about. Are some of these things actually bad things? Because I look around my home and often I see like, oh, my gosh, it's so messy. Like, we need to clean, we have too much stuff and all of that. But it's the home of two ADHD years and a toddler.

And I also see, like, the art we've made together and like all the books and the toys we love and things like that. So I try to, like, reframe it for myself. That it's like the creativity and excitement pouring out and not just terrible mess.

I think it's interesting because I am in a relationship with someone who definitely doesn't have ADHD and we're very opposite. Like, he's a minimalist and very neat, and I am the opposite of both of those. And he understands my ADHD or that I have it.

But he'll say things like, but you, you just have to, like, he won't say like, you just have to stop having ADHD. But he will say like, why do you have your phone set up that way? Or your email or your to do list? And I'm like, oh, because I have ADHD.

And he's like, yeah, but those things aren't working. And I'm like, I know a lot of them aren't working, but I just default to them because I don't know how to do things differently.

And I do think I get a lot done despite these often maybe cumbersome ways of working. Like, I mean, just for instance, you asked me for my photo. I was really glad I labeled my headshots.

I had to label them like 20, 26, dash, headshot, dash my name and some other things at the end to differentiate them because I would have all these headshots and like they'd be named Rachel, Kramer, Russell, headshot or headshot. Like I have trouble finding a lot of files sometimes on my computer because they aren't organized.

And sure I could take a whole day and organize them all, but like that is the last thing I want to do. And like admin, stuff like that, I struggle with that. Like tasks that feel tedious, which a lot of them are social media related right now for me.

Like tasks that don't feel creative, like, or bringing something new to the table that just feel like, that I have to do, I definitely avoid them. The only one I am good about is bookkeeping because that feels like something I just do every morning.

I see what charges I have and I put them in my system and then I'm done.

Whereas things that I have to do for an hour, like inputting information, I will either do it and get it done in focus or it will take me, you know, months to do something that could have taken a week. And it has real consequences.

Like last year I hosted Open Secrets Live for the first time and I got the photos from the photographers, I think within three or four days. And I was supposed to send them to someone I was working with on publicity who was going to send them to like publishing related sites.

And I kept writing it on my to do list.

And for whatever reason, I think because I was supposed to send it with a caption, it was that extra step, something about like having to write the caption and look up everyone's names and spellings and just seemed daunting. And so I didn't do it for I think like 10 days. And by then I'm assuming it wasn't timely because it didn't get picked up this year.

Part of why I wanted to do it again was just to learn from all the things I felt like I did wrong last time and this year.

First of all, I asked the photographers to get me the photos the next morning because I've been told that, like, it's better to get them out right away.

I also, instead of getting a zip file of the audio, which is still sitting on my desk from last May, and, you know, we're recording in February, I am going to have my producer come to the event. I'm literally going to just give him the zip file, because that's just something that, for whatever reason, I think because I'm good it words, that's kind of what I feel like I'm good at. I'm not good at audio, I'm not good at video. I'm not good at visuals. I'm just not.

Those aren't my skill sets that they intimidate me so much that I will just avoid them. And I'm kind of amazed that I'm even hosting a podcast, which is launching soon, because I also had kind of a nervous breakdown over it.

I was crying over the recordings because I couldn't find them in my content management that I was using, and I was worried that the audio wasn't good. Like, I was just having so much stress about it that I put it on hold for six months.

I was recording last spring, and then in May, I was having meltdowns over it, and my boyfriend was like, this is not worth it. It's not like you owe it to someone. You're just doing an independent podcast. You don't have to.

And so I put it aside, and in my head, I was like, okay, do I give up and just abandon the eight episodes I had recorded, or do I figure out how to fix that? And it took me till around December to figure out how to fix it. And I'm still super nervous, but I'm also excited. But that's.

That's kind of how I feel. Like, what happened with law school, where I got really overwhelmed and scared and nervous and I gave up. And I don't want to replicate that feeling because I've also done that in other arenas. I don't talk about this that much, but I had a pretty big book deal in my 20s for two novels. And I also basically ghosted on it.

And it's, like, very shameful and embarrassing, and I always worry, like, what if an editor hears that and is like, wow, she's flaky, and she would be a terrible author to work with. And I think part of it is similar to law school in that that wasn't the novel of my heart.

Like, it wasn't like my dream to write any novel and not that novel. And so I tried, but I think I was given this wonderful opportunity, but I was maybe the wrong person to get that opportunity.

And so now the projects I want to work on are different from that, but are ones that I. I'm willing to do the work because I'm more invested in it. And I think that's where my ADHD really can play a positive and negative role. Because when it's stuff I don't care about, it's so hard to motivate.

But when it's something I care about, I'll spend a million hours on it. And I don't. It's not that. It's not that, like, you know, if you do what you love, it won't feel like work. It's not that it doesn't feel like work. It just feels like work I enjoy.

That is so interesting that you walked away from that novel and now you have such a platform with open secrets lifting up other people's voices instead, and you're telling these amazing stories on your podcast, so it seems like you're exactly where you're supposed to be now.

I feel like that. And I feel like in some ways I'm very introverted. I like to work alone. I mean, I do work with people in some aspects, but I like to be the one in charge and be able to work at one in the morning if that's when I'm up when I'm. Whereas, like, if you work in an office or you work on something where you have, like, a co host, you can't really do it that way.

But I'm also an extrovert in that I love people. I love talking to people, I love hearing their stories. And so I feel like I get to do both of those things.

Like, with my writing, it's on my time and in my head is basically where it lives. But with the podcast, open Secrets, like, I've been introduced to so many people that I never would have met otherwise.

And it's not that I met all of them, but, you know, when they're writing an essay about mental health or their friends being their friend, being in a domestic violence relationship, you do feel like you know them. And I do follow most of them.

And like, some of the people who are newer writers, I try to mentor them and encourage them to publish elsewhere too, because I. I don't think it's all about, like, my publication. And I love that there is this literary community on substack, so.

So I feel like I'm the happiest professionally I've ever been, except that I don't have enough time.

Time is always a difficult resource to have enough of, especially for moms. I want to talk a little bit about your erotica writing. I'm just curious about, like, what made you decide to kind of pivot away from that and how you're feeling about that switch at this point in your career?

I think that I was as excited about erotica when I started, when I was around 24,5ish, as I am now about Open Secrets. Like, it was a new thing to me.

I had been reading it for a few years, and then I was like, oh my gosh, I get to write it and people are publishing it and now I get to edit anthologies of other people's. And then I started teaching erotica writing classes. And I, for five years, I hosted an erotica writing series.

I like, throw myself super passionately into anything I'm working on. And I think just after more than 20 years and editing 70 plus anthologies, I was kind of burned out on it.

I also think my life, when I started doing it, was more aligned with erotica. Like, I was mostly single. I was kind of in this sex positive world. Like I was going to sex parties. And it aligned more with my life. And my life is different now. And it's not that I can't write erotica. I mean, it's fiction. But I also felt like as a writer, I'd kind of run out of things to say.

And one of the last books I published was a book of my short stories that spanned from the very beginning to 20, 23 or 4. I wrote two new stories, and they were really hard to write.

Like, I wasn't the font of ideas I was all that time ago because I'd written so many stories in between. And I think I'm more gravitating toward nonfiction, towards essays and journalism. So it just felt kind of like it wasn't a good fit.

Like, I felt like I was struggling, almost like when law school. Like, it was a slog. I wasn't into it anymore. And I always told myself I didn't want to just keep doing it indefinitely.

And there were also some publishing travails where, you know, my publisher was not being the Greatest. And they eventually were sold. Like around the time I was quitting, they got sold and I think are not publishing erotica anymore.

My publishing experience had been really good with them during the heyday, especially around 50 shades of gray. I was making a lot more money than I had been. And then it started to dwindle, dwindle, dwindle.

Which is kind of ironic because right as like smut, which is what everyone calls romance, which is kind of confusing, has been rising. I think maybe people were getting the erotic elements of fiction from erotic romance and romance.

And so the stuff I was editing wasn't selling as well. So it was a combination of like 20 doing the same amount of work for less money because less royalties and lack of interest and also lack of time. Like I just couldn't do the erotica and open secrets. And I had a part time job and then I became a mom. And those all kind of combined to make me just feel totally okay about leaving.

And I feel connected to the people I met, which is dozens if not hundreds of people through my editing. And I think I worked with over 800 authors. I have a list somewhere and you know, I followed them on Facebook. I've met lots of them.

So I feel connected to the people, but I just don't feel invested in it as a genre. And I feel like I had to leave that to make room for all the other things I want to do now.

Have you thought about if you want your daughter to read that erotica one day or if you'll kind of keep it from her until she's a certain age?

I mean, I definitely don't want her to read it because that's just all awkward. But I'm not going to like hide it because I don't. I think like if I did, then she would feel maybe betrayed.

But I've actually been thinking about, I used to have it all on my bookcases in my room. I have one or two, maybe more than that, but I have a few. But it's not like a whole bookcase of it the way I used to have it.

I had every anthology I'd been published in, which is over a hundred, plus all the ones I'd edited like out. And I packed them all up. It's boxes and boxes. I think it's five or six and might be more. I've been thinking about where can I donate them.

I donated a lot of the ones I had collected because I was like, I'm just not reading it as often. And yes, these are books I'VE owned many of them for decades, but I just don't need them and maybe someone else will use them.

So I did donate a lot of the ones that I wasn't involved with, but then I have all these books I edited, and I didn't just want donate them any random place. So I'm kind of looking for maybe there's a. A university with a sexuality collection or somewhere that they will be taken care of. Because I don't want to just like, well, first of all, I'm not going to go to my local suburban New Jersey library and be like, here's hundreds of erotica books. Because that's just weird.

So I do give them away to friends and I do want to keep, like, one copy of all the ones that I edited and some of the ones that I have stories in. But I think turning 52 made me just think about, okay, like, eventually I'm gonna die. These books aren't on a shelf, they're just in a box.

I don't even know which ones are in which box. Like, we have limited space. Like, so it feels like kind of like a breakup, but not a bad one. Just like one of those conscious uncoupling.

Like, I. I just feel like, okay, I'm done with that genre. And it is weird in the sense of I was so into it. Like, I was. I would be interviewed when people were writing about Fifty Shades of Gray. And I did. Did a lot of things in the genre, but I feel like I did everything I wanted to do in it. And now I'm ready to move on. And so I think I'll tell my daughter that that was something that I was involved in.

She's one and a half, so I haven't thought yet about, like, how am I gonna explain sex and bodies to her beyond, like, that I wanna use correct anatomy, but, I mean, I wanna be open about sex with her, but, like, with appropriate boundaries. And I feel like when she's old enough, I don't want her to be at someone's house and they'd be like, oh, I googled your mom and this came up.

But I'm also kind of hoping that by the time in 10 years or eight years or whatever, that some of the erotica will be lower in the Google search because of the other stuff I'm doing.

That makes a lot of sense. So you mentioned getting rid of all those books, which is a good segue to talk about your podcast about belongings. I'm really curious, like, you've written about belongings and hoarding you have your objectives column with Open Secrets, and now you have a podcast about people's belongings. What is it about that topic, about our stuff that is like so compelling and rich for you?

It's funny because I will tell people that I'm starting a podcast about our belongings and they're like, what? And I'm like, oh. And then I, when I start to tell them like some of the examples of things I'm talking about, like miniatures. And I definitely want to interview someone who lives in a tiny house.

I have a friend who her two friends jointly own a teddy bear that has traveled all around the world with them and they dress him up and he's almost like a mascot. And I've talked to people with collections and just people with interesting stories about one item or a collection of items.

I'm going to be talking to someone who's into perfume samples and has hundreds of them. What I like about the topic is that my original thought was a podcast about hoarding.

But a. I'm a hoarder, but most people who are hoarders don't to identify as that because there's so much stigma around it. But I've also come to think of it as a continuum. It's not just, okay, minimalists who own almost nothing and then hoarders who keep everything.

I think we're all somewhere in that continuum. And some, a lot of people will say, like, I'm not a hoarder, but I have like XYZ stash of something.

And the more I've talked to people, the more I've found that their emotional attachments to their belongings, not all of them, but like special ones, reveal so much because someone's record player might be like their most valuable item that they would save in a fire and someone else might, it might be like their kitchen knives or something and. And someone else, it might be a keepsake from a family member. And I have not had trouble filling in my slots of.

I think I have 45 slots for three 15 episode seasons. It's been pretty easy because almost every time I talk to someone about it, either they recommend someone or something comes up in our conversation.

So there's a woman in my mom's group who has a Pyrex tattoo and is super into collecting vintage Pyrex and has a story about like, she eventually got this coveted one that retails for like thousands of dollars, but her aunt had found it at a yard sale and it broke like in her house. Like, I think her kid was reaching for something and it broke and she was, like, really bummed. The.

The part with the logo was intact, so that's what she got tattooed. And to me, like, that's the story behind the story. I mean, it might not sound that interesting. Okay, someone collects Pyrex. Lots of people do that.

But I want to know, like, for her, what is so meaningful about it. And, like, yeah, someone else might have a different story. And I'm hoping that once we're on air, people who collect things will come on.

There's a guy on TikTok who collects 10 Titanic on VHS. He has thousands. I forget. It's like, Titanic fan something. Oh, my goodness, I'm so fascinated.

Like, literally all he posts about is getting more Titanic on vhs. And I get it. There's various versions, but there's not 3,000 different versions of it. So he's just collecting the same VHS tape over and over.

I'm just like, the psychology of that. I could literally probably talk to him for hours. So, like, people like that, but also regular people.

I don't want people to feel like it's only about, like, weird, quirky things. It's really about whatever. Like, I say sometimes I go to someone, I say, look, I know you have a book coming out or you're my friend, and what would you want to talk about?

And then once people have a moment to think about it, almost everyone I've asked has been interested and been able to come up with something that makes sense to base an episode around. So I just think it's a very universal topic that we don't talk about as a topic that often.

But once you get people going, we all own something or have owned something that's been meaningful to us, and that might change over time. You know, like, the thing that was meaningful to you in your 20s is probably different than in your 40s or 50s.

And then as you get older, I think your relationship to stuff changes because you're aware that of your mortality and that, you know, you literally can't take it with you unless you, like, it's in your coffins.

Well, that sounds like it's going to be completely fascinating. I can't wait to listen to the first episode. Let's take a quick break and we'll get into parenthood after that.

So you mentioned becoming a mom just a short time ago. I'm curious how old your daughter is and what kind of stuff she's into these days.

She's a year and a half. Her favorite activities are literally like waving to people and waving the dogs like, if she gets the meet a dog, it's very exciting.

She hasn't met a cat yet. We. We see a cat in the backyard. I don't know whose cat it is, but we see it every couple days. So it's like a big.

It's a big excitement in our house when we get to see the cat. And we always look for the cat, like, and sometimes I use it to distract her.

I'm like, okay, you're trying to get into something in the kitchen I don't want you to get into. So I'm going to open the blinds and we'll look for the cat. So she really just loves people. Like, if she is out and she waves to someone and they wave back to her, that, like, makes her day. And then she'll keep waving. We'll be at a coffee shop and she will wave. They'll wave back, and then she just will continue waving, like, the whole time.

And so sometimes I'm turned away either talking to a friend or I'm eating, and I'll just see that she is just doing that, like, waving and, like, making friends with people. So she. Honestly, she loves that. She loves music. She loves records. Like, we have a record player.

And she especially loves Olivia Rodrigo's Guts album, which she can find because it's purple. She will find it. Like, we'll move it in the collection, and she will look through and then pull it out and beg us to play it.

So we don't play it every day, and she doesn't ask every day, but sometimes she does. And she'll take albums out and we'll.

I don't know if she always knows which ones they are, but if we play it a couple days in a row, like, she will start to recognize the record. So she loves music. She also has a Tony's box that she loves to. It's a. For anyone who doesn't know, it's this, like, cube that plays audiobooks or some are stories and some are music. And so they have a Ms. Rachel one and Lori Berkner and Paw Patrol and Spider Man. Those are some of the ones we have.

But our library also has them, so you can check them out. And she loves it. Like, she dances and she spins around. And I just learned tonight that her and her babysitter have, like, a whole routine. They do this. So some. I think it's a song with, like, helicopter and other vehicles that they, like, act them out. And she.

I mean, today she was, like, spinning and she. I think she liked getting dizzies because I.

She made me spin with her and then I got dizzy and I had to sit down and she was like, get up and do more. Her favorite word is more. I mean, anything like an activity. She always wants to do more. You give her a cracker, she has not even taken a bite.

And she's like, more. And I'm like, I gave you two crackers. There's more right in front of you. She will just ask for more of everything.

And it's very adorable because we live in suburban New Jersey. And she says more like a little British, like, boy. But then the way she says bye is like a southerner. Bye. Bye. So it's just so funny.

I don't know where she got the way she says more, but it's really hilarious. She also loves, like climbing and to the point where she'd be trying to climb up on our couch. And I'm like, your leg is not tall enough.

And so we got her a indoor climbing gym thing that my boyfriend set up and she really, really likes it. Like the first day she was clambering up it and she now like, will skip rungs. And she. She's just such a daredevil about that.

So I started taking her to like, gym classes and open gyms. And she just loves being active and running around.

And she also likes books, which I promised myself I wasn't going to push my interest on my child, but I hoped that I would have a child who likes books. And like now she says book and she'll like flip through them by herself. And that is just the cutest thing.

And then we read certain ones every day and I'm actually wearing. I bought this ring for myself because I liked it. It's a watch. But every time we're reading Goodnight Moon, there's clocks in it.

And if I'm not wearing this ring, I have to go get it because she's like points at my hand and says clock. And it was missing the last couple days and I had to explain to her, like, I did know where it was and we're just going to move on.

And Goodnight Moon. And she was like, definitely disappointed. So I found it on my desk today and I showed her and she was so excited and then I had to take it off and then she tried to put it on her hand and then we had to put it on her stuffed animals like her goat's horn. And she was like, very happy about that.

So it's funny, their interests because I did that thing where I was like, I'm going to get every educational toy that's being, you know, advertised to me. Not every, but like I got two toy subscription boxes because they were both educational toys.

And her first year she was getting one every other month from these companies. So we had a lot of toys and a lot of them she didn't really use at first and we kept them.

And then when she was, you know, six months later or whatever, she would pick them up. And sometimes now she'll play with toys that maybe are technically for a younger age, but she's figured them out.

And then there's other toys that I don't know legally how they decide what age to put on them. But I had this magnet set that I bought for another kid that I never wound up giving them, and it said four plus.

So I wasn't gonna give it to her, but it was out in the hallway and so she kept seeing it. And I was like, you know what? These are just these bendy magnets. I forget what the company's called. You can build like a house out of them.

Like you can do more stuff when you're bigger, but they stick to anything metal and they stick to each other and they're fun. And so I just opened it one day. She was one and she loves them and we play with them all the time. Actually, she's kind of over them by now.

But I just realized, okay, that said four plus, I think, because you can do the building as you're older, but that doesn't mean that a 1 year old can't use it. So I do try to scrutinize the ages because I think sometimes they're ready for something that's technically for older kids.

But maybe legally they have to say three or four, but a one year old who's ready for it could use it.

Yeah, I think some of that's the cover your ass stuff. If there's like a magnet that could break out that they could choke on or something. But yeah, we're using magnatiles that are for three and up and he loves them, so whatever they enjoy. And if they're supervised...

I mean, I'm usually with her, but it is amazing how you turn your head for one second and especially like, she knows what she's supposed to put in her mouth or not put in her mouth. But today she was trying to eat a sponge that she was playing with.

And I kept trying to figure out, like, do I take it away or do I say we don't eat that? Because I kept giving it back to her. And she would kind of look at me like, okay, I'm not going to eat it. And then one second later, it's in her mouth. And I'm like, that's gross. So. And I just. I don't want to take it away.

And she doesn't eat that many things, but sometimes I, like, will see marker all over her face. I mean, it's washable marker, but I still don't really want it on her skin.

So I. I do struggle with, like, how stern to be over those things, because I know that you're not supposed to, like, freak out because it gives them a reaction. But I also know she's curious, what does the sponge taste like? And I'm like, okay. So I try to balance.

I mean, one time she tried to eat an acorn at an outdoor story time. And I. In the middle of the story time, I was like, no. And I, like, had to, like, get it out of her mouth because it was scary. I mean, she didn't try to swallow it, but I think she just was like, oh, a little round thing on the ground. That looks interesting. So it. It's amazing how fast that happens.

There's always something. I was going to ask. What are the challenging things kind of driving you up the wall lately with having a toddler?

She doesn't, like, misbehave. And I know it's not, like, misbehaving because they don't know, but actually, I'll correct that. I think she does know because, like, there's certain things we tell her not to do. And she knows she's not supposed to, like, pull plugs out of the wall or play with the lamps.

Like, we let her turn the lamps on and off, but these are floor lamps. She will try to move them. And she knows she's not supposed to, because I'll go, like, I do this, and then she does it back to me.

So I think there are things that she knows, but she's just curious about them anyway. That's not really what I struggle with. Most of the things aren't really around her behavior.

It's more around just the reality of the time that I have. And sometimes it's also around my. I'm not going to say mom guilt, but, like, I'll have the babysitter here. And she loves her babysitter.

I mean, we consider the babysitter by now kind of part of the family because she's just so wonderful with her. And so they'll be playing, and, like, they don't necessarily need me, but Then I want to do the fun things because they're, like, doing something that sounds cool. Or my daughter is like hysterically laughing and how could I not like, at least peek in and see what she's laughing about?

And sometimes I do join them for half an hour, an hour. And I don't feel bad about it. Like, it is fun and it's kind of nice because I'm not as in charge.

She's playing with the babysitter and I'm kind of watching. And that's nice too, because I get to observe more than being totally on.

But then I'll be like, oh, I didn't get these three things I was gonna do done. And so, like, that's probably my biggest struggle. She's a pretty chill child. Like, she's slept through the night since two months old.

Like, I mean, I sometimes feel bad because I'll talk to their parents. They're like, really? And the other day we were at the gym and I was feeding her from like a box lunch thing I got there.

I don't really let her have processed meats, but she picked up this sausage piece and I was letting her nibble on it and someone said, oh, she, like, she eats meat. I was like, yeah, she kind of eats everything. And they were like, oh, you're lucky. And I was like, oh, I guess we are.

I mean, we are pretty lucky that she's been a pretty not picky eater. Once in a while she doesn't like something, but you can tell when she really likes something, she will devour it. But most things she'll try.

She's curious. I think she's really curious about whatever we're doing. And that's really heartwarming and cute.

And like the other day we were at this takeout place that we get food from a lot and she was bringing me cans of seltzer. And at first I thought it was just cause it was out. And then she was saying, mama.

And then I realized it's polar seltzer, which I have in the fridge, which she's seen me drink a lot of times. And she used to look on the can when she was younger and be really entranced by it. So I realized, like, she recognized that logo.

And I was like, that's so sweet. And then she put one to her lips and I was like, okay, I'll just buy this one. But she was bringing me like five cans.

And I kept saying, okay, thank you, and then put them back, please. So it's just when she recognizes those things or you know, she'll bring me my purse or my water bottle. It.

She's constantly bringing us things that she knows belong to us and that's, it's just, I don't know. So I, I definitely struggle with things.

I feel like I'm blanking on it because I maybe like push that out of my head because I think sometimes I do get frustrated when like nap time, that's been a struggle. Right now it's okay because we have more of a routine. That was hard when she was like six to 12 months. It was really hard.

I, I tried to sleep train and it didn't work in the daytime. Like she just wouldn't go in the crib and then I would be crying to myself or just like miserable because I hear her crying.

And eventually we stopped because I was like, you're only napping for about half an hour and you're crying for half an hour, then I'm stressed out. I'd rather just hold you and get a 45 minute nap. But then eventually she turned one and I was like, we can't hold you forever.

I mean you're going to get heavy. I would like an hour, even half an hour to myself.

And it's much better now that like I, I know I'm gonna get a break with those naps to just do whatever I wanna do. I always tell myself I'm gonna maybe rest, but I almost never take a nap. Today I actually did take a nap, but only cause I was exhausted.

But it is really hard to just fit in all the things I wanna do, especially with adhd because I feel like if I think of something I wanna do in the morning or something comes through that I see in my email, if I have to wait till the night to do it, like I'll be half thinking about it. I wish I could just say, okay, can I pause being a parent for 15 minutes and just do this and then come back?

Like I wish I could like, I don't know, I could just like measure out her naps and tiny doses throughout the day so I could get little things done. And I do sometimes like if she naps in the car, I get a lot of stuff done on my phone. I just wait out her naps.

Like I don't try to bring her inside because I'd rather let her sleep and me get a little peace than bring her in wake, mess up the nap. And then what if the nap gets ruined in the morning? The whole day is kind of busted.

I want to kind of rewind in time and hear more about her origin story, because I know she's adopted, right? So my only frame of reference for adoption really is, I don't think I've talked about it on the podcast, but my brother is adopted, and that was international adoption in the 90s, so, like, totally different ballgame. So can you share kind of what the process was like for adopting a child?

I'm pretty open about her being adopted. I don't talk about the details of her story, but I tried to get pregnant. I mean, when I say try, it sort of feels fake because I didn't do everything. Like, I didn't do IVF. I didn't do IUI. I didn't really pursue those. And I was older. I would have started earlier.

I started dating my boyfriend when I was 36, and he knew I wanted kids. It took him a few years to say, okay, I'm on board. We're trying. Then we were trying for, say, like, five years, 40 to 45ish. And I'd kind of not given up. I didn't have high hopes for getting pregnant.

But I was like, that's weird. Like, when I know that I was pregnant. So, long story short, I had to go to the ER by myself because it was pandemic. Was there for six hours.

I was, like, just, like, bleeding the whole time. It was terrifying. And I was having a miscarriage, but I didn't know I was pregnant because it was only five weeks, and I was okay afterwards.

And they did say I theoretically could get pregnant, but Drew really didn't want me to get pregnant after that again in case something went wrong. Just emotionally, mainly, but also physically because I was older.

And that's not to say that's how it works for everyone. Like, I met people in our agency who three months in their adoption went through, like, it's very much hitter miss and just so individual.

And there were points in the process where I felt like, are we too offbeat? To be selected, because in our agency's case, like, the birth parents select, in most cases, select the adoptive parents.

Because you can see everyone else's profiles, and it's like, most of them were Christian or Jewish or religious. And we're like, I'm Jewish and he's an atheist. Like, we're not religious. We didn't have anything really about that in our profile. We're not married.

We're older. We were in our late 40s or mid to late 40s. So it just sort of felt like, is anyone going to see that we are going to be good parents.

And so I think what really just. I still, like, tear up over this is that we were picked eventually.

And, like, we had 24 hours to go meet our daughter, which was wild, even though we knew that was likely to happen. It's one thing to know that, and it's another to, like, have that happen.

But we were told that they were interested in us because we prioritize art, music, and travel. Like, we had a lot about that in our profile. And I always think about that when I'm just playing with my daughter. Like, I mean, we.

Art and music are part of our life on a daily basis.

Like, my boyfriend's an artist, so there's art all over the house, and she has art up in her room that we look at every day, and we listen to music every day, and we travel as much as we can.

I feel like those are kind of things that help guide me and the things I pursue with her because I feel like that's a connection to her birth parents. I mean, those are probably things we would do anyway, but that's something I, you know, want her to know is both our interests and their interests.

For her, it's like, I thought I was ready, and I was emotionally ready, but it's still really overwhelming. And it's really weird to, like, one day be in this because, like, especially by the time we.

Our adoption went through, I think we were both feeling really frustrated with the process. Like, why isn't anyone picking us? What if it never happens for me, like, what if I turn 50 and it still hasn't happened?

Like, it was really hard the last year, especially because there was one situation where there were emails going around on my birthday, and I was like, oh, it's my birthday, so that means, like, that's a sign. And then it didn't work out. It was a really hard process of waiting. But then we met her, and it was just like, everything felt really right. And.

And I think Something that really was meaningful to me is that I was always the much more eager to become a parent person. My boyfriend was pretty much like, he had never had that ambition. Like, he was open to trying, but he, he had never wanted to be a dad.

He never thought about it before. So I wasn't sure how he would be, like, if he would be not still standoffish, but if he would just sort of be like going through the motions.

But the very first day, like, he was giving her a nickname and like holding her. And he is like such a hands on dad. Like, he is as sappy as I am about her. Like, and he's like. And he's super private.

So I don't want to like get too into how he is as a parent, but he's an amazing parent. And they have their rituals. I have my rituals with her. And like, she knows that, like, we each do different things with her.

And like, he started teaching her cooking because he loves to cook. And so she has one of those stools and they make eggs and they make smoothies and she loves it. And like, I don't cook. I don't.

I would not say I'm a cook. I mean, I have cooked food before, but I don't enjoy it. I will sometimes be like, wow, I'm amazed that I get to be her mom.

Like, it feels really special to me and she's just so funny and sweet and like, I try not to like, when I do get stressed. It's not really about parenting specifically. It's really more about like juggling all the things I want to do outside of parenting with parenting.

I feel you on that. I'm so happy she found you guys and you all found each other because it seems like it's just a perfect fit for everyone.

And I did want to just touch on what you said. I mean, open adoption, from what I understand is the more of the norm now. I don't think.

I mean, maybe there are closed adoptions that happen more privately, but I think it's more accepted that open is better for the kids. So. But it is still like a traumatic process for them. And I'm like, I want to acknowledge that it's not. There are other people involved in her adoption than us and her family of origin. And like, adoption is not this panacea.

It's presented as sometimes with like, oh, well, like, you know, we don't need abortion because we have adoption. And I think it's a lot more complicated. And I, I never want to make it sound like, well, her life is perfect because we adopted her.

Because that's not how I feel. I feel very lucky to be her mom. Adoption is more complicated than it's often presented as, and I'm not an expert on it, but I do try to, like, read books and newsletters and listen to podcasts by adoptees because I think I learn a lot that way.

I really appreciate you saying that because I think it is so complex. And it's been interesting hearing from adoptees on TikTok and stuff in the last few years who talk about the trauma of it.

We only have time for, like, one more question, so I think to close out, I wanna. We talked about belongings earlier, so there's so many things we can have for babies and toddlers. How are you approaching belongings for your kid? And, like, thinking about what to save and what not to save and all of that.

It's so hard. Like, I didn't realize how much stuff I would want to get for her, how much stuff she'd be given on an ongoing basis, and then just how hard it is to call it all. So I do a pretty good job with clothes because I'm like, okay, if it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit.

I've kept a few sentimental ones that either, like, were personally meaningful or just like, that she wore when she was a tiny baby.

But, like, books right now I'm trying to make downsize because we only have so much room and I do have a couple book subscriptions for her because I want to, like, always be keeping up with her learning. But, like, it's just so hard. I think I'm. I really fell for a lot of these Instagram ads of if you buy this toy, your kid will learn to read it. Like, you know, one. I mean, not exactly, but some of them are kind of predatory. They're like, if you don't get this program or toy or whatever, like, they're going to be delayed. And it's so awful how just, like, it preys on all your insecurities as a parent. At the same time, some of the things I've bought have been amazing.

I'll shout out one thing just because I felt like, oh, I took a chance on this and it worked really well. It's called Tappi, T A P P I.

It's this book set where, like, the pen is electronic and you turn it on and you press it on the book and either says, like, caterpillar and makes a noise or it plays a song and it breaks down the sounds by instrument. So she'll have a song that's playing, like, the guitar part, the drum part.

She really likes being in control of it and like, that I think is really cool. So I try to look for things that she can use with us, but. But also on her own. It is really hard for me to get rid of stuff if I think she might use it again.

That sounds like a really cool toy. I'll have to check something like that out.

One thing that has helped me is that I have a lot of friends and family with younger kids, so it feels nice to pass on things that she has enjoyed but has outgrown. Like, that feels easier to me than just like, donating it to some random place that I don't know what will happen to it.

It's so nice having a network of parents to share things with. Like, we've gotten a ton of hand me downs from friends, and it helps so much.

and it feels special. Like, it feels nice that people will give us stuff that they used. Or maybe they didn't use that specific item, but they remember reading it with their kid.

And some of my cousins, the little kids, like, picked out books for her at her first Hanukkah party that they had liked when they were, like, little, and that was really, really sweet. And they put their names in there. So when we read it, I say, this is from your cousin. And. And that's really nice.

Aw. Hopefully no one gifted you the Pout Pout Fish. I hear you are a hater of that one, right?

I am not thrilled with the Pout Pout Fish series. From what I've read, I haven't read them all. I actually have a stack I'm trying to, like, research more because they're.

The one was like, smile, Pout Pout Fish. And I was like, oh, okay, that looks cute. And then it was basically like, smile. Even if. Even if you're, you know, having a bad day.

And I'm like, that's like the same thing as, like, when women are walking down the street and guys are like, smile. Like, why should you have to smile if you're not in a smiling mood? And that was I. That was a message I took away, and I read it several times.

And I was like, I'm going to stop reading this to my child.

I have to look up the author of that one. Because I have a theory that some of the books that make me the most ragey are by boomers like Llama Llama Red Pajama. Have you read that with your daughter?

I think maybe I read one. And I have a friend who also had a problem with that one, but I don't really remember. I think it's been a while, but I know it's not universally beloved.

The llama mom comes upstairs and she's like, you need to calm down. Why are you yelling for me? I'm busy. You have to understand, Mommy's so busy.

When the kid is, like, sobbing because he thinks his mama's gone forever, it's like, sheesh, it's just a kid.

I do really pay attention to the messages because especially at this age, she is absorbing so much. She will pick up on things that I didn't realize she was picking up on.

So if there is a message that we come across that I don't like, I either change the words or. Or I don't read it to her and, like, remove it from our collection.

It is crazy how much they understand. Like, my son doesn't know anything about football. We don't watch football. But we have a bunch of Josh Allen stuff from the bills.

And now he knows Josh Allen. Like, I can say, go get the Josh Allen little person. Or go get the. There's like a sticker on Magnatiles, and he's like, oh, Josh Allen. Like, brings it over.

Like, it's wild. Like, we've named our lamps. Cause we have a bunch of them in the house. So we'll be like, turn on Edison. Or we say it and she points to, like, which one that is. And so we've. We've. We have, like, Curly sue and Edison and Pretzel light.

And it's just so funny because when she starts going to school, we're going to have to use the proper words. Not for every light, but, like, certain things that we just say in the house.

I'm like, they're not going to know what you're talking about if you're just saying, like, an in joke in your family.

I love the weird little family languages that we all have.

It is wild how much they are picking up and, like, when they start talking, saying things that you're like, oh, I didn't know you knew that word or that concept.

Bulba is my son's other new one for Bulbasaur. Very useful word.

Well, thank you for coming on the show, Rachel. This was really fun getting to talk with you more.

Thank you.

This has been a presentation of the Lunchador podcast network.