The significance of effective onboarding cannot be overstated. Poor onboarding practices can have detrimental effects on both employees and companies alike. Despite its critical role, statistics reveal a concerning reality: only 69% of companies possess formal onboarding programs, with over half lasting less than a week. 

Listen in as I talk with Jake Stahl, a fractional Chief Learning Officer with extensive global experience designing onboarding programs. This episode delves into strategies for designing onboarding programs that foster seamless integration, meaningful contributions, and long-term retention. 

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Julie Brown:

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Jake Stahl

Website

LinkedIn

Onboarding is crucial for both companies and employees as it sets the

2

tone for the beginning of a productive

and fulfilling professional relationship.

3

However, according to Devlin Peck,

only 69 percent of companies have

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a formal onboarding process for

employees across the company and

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53 percent have an onboarding

program of less than seven days.

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These programs not only don't last

long enough to have meaningful impact,

7

they aren't well designed either.

8

Welcome to episode 193 of This Shit

Works, a podcast dedicated to all

9

things networking, relationship

building, and business development.

10

I'm your host, Julie Brown, speaker,

author, and networking coach.

11

And today I am joined by Jake Stahl, a

fractional chief learning officer who

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over the past 30 years, has created world

class onboarding programs in six countries

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and has spoken about it in 47 states.

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According to Jake, to hire an employee,

on average, costs the company 18, 000

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just to have them walk through the door.

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Then they have hardware and software

costs, benefits, and their first pay.

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All in all, a company invests well

over 2, 50, 000 before the person even

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sits at their desk for the first time.

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Did you know that the number one reason

that an employee leaves a company in

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their first six months of employment

is because of onboarding or shitty

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onboarding or no onboarding at all.

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And that number is just

increasing by the way.

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So how can companies design onboarding

programs that work, that allow new hires

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to integrate seamlessly into their roles?

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contribute meaningfully to projects and

adapt to the company's processes and

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workflows efficiently and, and build

important inter office relationships.

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Well, we're going to get into all of that

and so much more with our guests today.

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So without further ado, Jake,

it's so wonderful to have you here

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Jake: Good morning and

thank you for having me.

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It's an honor to be here.

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Julie: So onboarding, it's clear that

effective onboarding pivotal for not just

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employers, but the employees as well.

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Could you elaborate a little

on why onboarding holds such

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power within an organization and

then why so many companies are

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failing at onboarding experiences?

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Jake: Yeah.

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So if we think about when we're doing

the hiring process, it's an everybody

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puts their best foot forward process.

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So the company shows its best faces.

40

It does its best interview.

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It provides its benefit package

in the salary, all in an effort

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to bring a new employee on board.

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A new employee reciprocates by putting

all their stuff on a resume and

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following up on the interviews and

weighing their options, you know, is

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the payload, but the benefits good.

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So everybody does this same process

of decision making when it comes

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to bringing somebody on board.

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However, Once that courting relationship

is over, then the honeymoon phase starts.

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And if you think about this in the

way of a marriage, you think about if

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you get married and the wedding goes

off without a hitch and you're great,

51

and then you go on your honeymoon.

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And it's day after day of stormy

weather, uh, the two of you get into

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an argument because the room's not

as big as you thought it would be.

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It tends to put a taint on the

whole process and it tends to set

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the precedent for whether you're

going to be happy in days to come.

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So if we think about first impressions

being everything, the onboarding

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is the first impression of how a

company is going to take care of you.

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And if they don't take care of you in

the first couple of days, it's really

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tough to get that feeling back again.

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And then to the point you discussed

already in the first six months, people

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tend to leave if they're not happy.

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But that first holiday sets

the stage for all of it.

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Julie: When it comes to onboarding, what

do you think is the ideal length of time?

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What is the most effective

length of time for onboarding?

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Jake: Well, it depends on

what your objectives are.

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Keep in mind that onboarding can take

a lot of different shapes and sizes.

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So let's say you're bringing on

a person in the legal department.

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That onboarding may be just getting

them used to the department, the

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current things that the company is

looking at in the way of cases or

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legal procedures that need to be done.

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In that case, it may be as simple as a

week, but if you bring on somebody in

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customer service or somebody in sales,

you've got a Bigger nut to crack, right?

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Because they need to know what happens

with the customer before it gets to them.

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What are they supposed to do?

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What happens after the customer leaves

them and they need to have full product

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knowledge on everything in the company.

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And that's to say nothing of

integration into the culture, right?

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If I'm not integrated in the culture and

feel good about who I'm working with.

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It can be terrible.

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So even the onboardings, I develop a

mentor program to cover people through

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the first six months of their training,

that they can work with a manager or

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a colleague, and just to get off on a

slight tangent, the funny thing about

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a mentor program is new employees hate

to go to their bosses with questions.

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Cause they don't want to make

the boss think I did a bad hire.

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So they prefer going to another colleague.

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So I always institute a mentor program

to get them comfortable and let them

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know any questions that they have,

they can, they can ask at any time.

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But heading back to your question,

customer service and sales, uh, I've

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already done four week on boardings

with them, depending on what the

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product portfolio looks like.

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The procedures the company has and what

their end goals are for the training,

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Julie: So you mentioned culture, and

often, companies talk about culture,

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but I think it's an often overlooked

part of an onboarding process.

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Like, how are we going to integrate

this person into our culture?

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Help them build relationships.

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You know, the studies are staggering

about, 68 percent of people feel like

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they don't have social connections

at work, which trickles down into,

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40 percent of people feeling that

they don't trust their coworkers.

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And it's because we're not building

relationships and You know, only I

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believe the statistic is off the top of my

head, if I'm remembering correctly, that

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only 25 percent of onboarding programs

create, you know, a part of the program

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being relationship building, cross silo

networking, only 25 percent even have

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that as an objective of onboarding.

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So, When you are creating onboarding

experiences for companies, what are

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the tips, what are the tools create

for them, the processes and frameworks

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you create with them so that you are

creating engagement between seasoned

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employees and new employees from day one,

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Jake: right.

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So when I go into companies, what

I often find is they've committed

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what I call random acts of training.

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And what that means is some people have

certain skill levels and some people

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don't, and some people know about a port,

their whole portfolio and some don't.

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So when the first things I do

is get a level set with the

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company and see who knows what.

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Cause you don't want to assign

them to a mentor that is largely

116

unaware of what's going on.

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So part of it is getting a level set

and then making sure the employees

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coming in have that level set.

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But you hit on something earlier,

I would be willing to guarantee

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less than 1 percent of onboarding

programs cover and that's

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generational differences in learning.

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So if you have a Gen X er.

123

That comes into a, uh,

millennial environment.

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The millennial environment is

going to be encompassed by learning

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management systems and videos and

go on YouTube and do this and that.

126

But if you have a Gen X or, or even

a baby boomer, which is still a

127

significant part of the workforce, you

have them come in, you're automatically

128

shutting them out of the culture

because they may not be as savvy.

129

They may not enjoy it.

130

You know, Assimilating

information from a video.

131

So part of onboarding should be a

generational look as to how they

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prefer to learn when they come in.

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And then how do you assimilate

a baby boomer into a millennial

134

environment or vice versa?

135

You know, all those things need to

be taken into consideration when

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you're doing an onboarding program.

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And yet they're largely overlooked.

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Julie: And what do you do?

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I'm very interested in.

140

Like you, I work with large companies

and I try to create relationship maps

141

across silos and I'm quite interested in

how we can build frameworks, especially

142

starting from onboarding, where we

create cross silo relationships that

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actually will grow and will blossom.

144

They're not just a one off.

145

Like you meet with this person

and then you never see them again.

146

Like, what do you think are the most

effective things within onboarding?

147

Because people are so in onboarding,

they're so into like, I got to learn

148

the rules for my job and the moving

parts of my job to the detriment

149

of not being blind to what all the

other moving parts of the company

150

Jake: Right.

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Yep.

152

And that's an excellent question.

153

And I have my own term for this.

154

So I'm just going to throw

out maybe new slang for you.

155

I always make sure we have what's

called the parade of Kings.

156

And what that means is, and that's

actually, I guess, a little sexist.

157

So let's say parade of Kings and Queens.

158

And so, um, You have introductions to

all of the heads of the departments.

159

So part of the onboarding is

let's say the head of HR comes in.

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Hey, I'm Jake head of HR.

161

This is what my apartment department does.

162

This is who your contacts will be.

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This is when you'll need us.

164

This is when you won't and when you

can get a chance as a new hire to talk

165

to a department head and feel welcome.

166

It is an amazing experience and then I

actually have the directors that they'll

167

be dealing with the people who they'll be.

168

Working with side by side, I have

them come on to the, the onboarding

169

to and have them describe when does

the customer hit their department?

170

When does a customer

leave their department?

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Because 1 of the most important things or

the most important pieces of onboarding

172

is somebody knowing how much their

job function affects the bottom line.

173

And the customer, when you know how much

of an effect you have, you feel better.

174

So I make sure they're

introduced to everybody.

175

They will be talking to as part of the

process of them dealing with customers.

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And I think it can't be missed.

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It is such a huge part of the process.

178

Julie: When you were saying, when you're

meeting with department heads in the

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department heads are saying, this is,

you know, this is when you will need us.

180

This is when you won't like, part of

me thinks that is very informative and

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we need information to, you know, make

decisions and know where we stand and

182

whatnot, but like, I know one of your

strengths is in conversations and the

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ability to have really good conversations.

184

Uh, and so I want to.

185

Turn a little bit to the relationships and

conversations that happen within companies

186

because I know this is your strong suit.

187

Like from the moment we walk through the

door to the wall, however long our tenure

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is, we will have interactions with people.

189

And if we can make those interactions

more meaningful through conversation

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through have effective conversation.

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Um, I think that's really important.

192

So you have this thing called the

adaptive conversational blueprint.

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And I.

194

Do not know what that is.

195

So I would love it if you would tell

us a little bit about that and how

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that works within organizations.

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Jake: So my degree is in psychology

and I have multiple certifications

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in neurolinguistic programming.

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And what all of those things teach

you is that if you can make yourself

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Like another person, in other words,

similar in the way they talk in the

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way they act, your bond will grow and

your communication will be better.

202

So neuro linguistic programming says

basically you have five modalities, but

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three which are used primarily, which

is visual auditory and kinesthetic.

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So by talking to another person,

I can start to understand the

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way they process information.

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And as I mirror them, their

body gestures, their motions,

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when I move to their cadence of

speech, we start to form a bond.

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But here's the amazing thing, and this has

been proven time and time again, you and

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I could have a great conversation and you

could feel good after that conversation.

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But that feel good doesn't

come from the conversation.

211

It comes from talking to me and you

associate that good feeling with me.

212

And what that does is that sets a

precedent for all conversations to come.

213

And the foundation of this is

really just the listening aspect.

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How much time do I give you to talk

about who you are and what you do?

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And an amazing thing

happens when you do that.

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The more I listen to you and ask you

about you and understand what you

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do, you get kind of a reciprocation

switch that, that clicks in your head.

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And after a while you come back

to me and say, My God, Jake, I've

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done nothing but talk about me.

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So tell me about you.

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And at that time, you are the

most receptive to whatever

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messaging I can give.

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And because I made you feel good about me,

you're going to want to talk to me again.

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So the adaptive conversational

blueprint says, break the conditioning,

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talking while you're thinking about

what you're going to say next or

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listening while thinking about

what you're going to say next.

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I teach you how to

break that conditioning.

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And then I teach you the basics of

neurolinguistic programming so you

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can adapt your conversation on the

fly to make sure you're getting the

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most out of the entire conversation.

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It's fantastic.

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I, I've done this with numerous

companies and the results are incredible.

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And all we're really doing

is teaching you how to talk.

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And listen again,

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Julie: I suck at listening without

my own voice in my head figuring

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out how I'm going to respond.

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And, I don't think it's because I'm a

narcissist and I just want to talk or

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like I want to dominate the conversation.

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I think it's , because of who I

am and what I do, I get so excited

240

to talk to people that I let it

like run in my brain too fast.

241

And I have a tendency and I, of

cutting people off because I'm

242

like, Oh, I just want to like,

Oh, I have to tell you, me too.

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And so.

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What do you do for someone like me

who is I'm not doing it because I

245

don't want to learn about that person

I'm just doing it because I get so

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excited talking to other people.

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Jake: part of it is focusing on

what the other person is saying.

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And what I typically have people do is I

have them do what I call the two 10 rule.

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So the two 10 rule says that for every 10

minutes you talk, you generate about two

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minutes of questions in the other person.

251

This has been shown time and

time again, public speakers.

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If you're talking for 10 minutes,

I guarantee you've created two

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minutes worth of questions.

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And what winds up happening is people

get excited about the question.

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So I just want to interrupt.

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I just want to say this.

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I need to get the question out of the way.

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So as a speaker, you establish

a cadence for yourself.

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You give yourself two

minutes before you jump in.

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And during that two minutes, you

really focus on what they're saying

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to the point where you repeat some

of the things back that they said.

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So if my wife and I are having a

conversation at the end of the day.

263

And she talks a lot of banking

terms, so she'll say, you know,

264

Jake, we're dealing with today and

she goes to move on and I'll say.

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ACH and then it forces

her to stop and slow down.

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It makes me have some time to think

about what she's saying and maybe even

267

think about what I'm going to say next.

268

But the 210 rule basically

wraps police tape around time

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parameters in your conversation.

270

And to help people with this, I've

actually had people buy stopwatches.

271

And after a while, what happens is you get

so used to this, you create a new habit.

272

And what's amazing is your

conversations flourish.

273

Not only that, But when you show genuine,

genuine interest in somebody else to

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the point where you don't cut them off.

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Allow them to finish a thought,

your relationship evolves.

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Julie: Yeah, I always feel like I think

what mine comes from is I'm always

277

afraid I'm gonna not remember what I

wanted to ask them About the story.

278

So instead of letting them continue

the story and then asking my questions

279

I'm afraid I'm not going to remember

what I was going to ask them or what

280

I was going to say or some pithy thing

I was going to like say to them, you

281

Jake: Yeah.

282

Julie: it's definitely something

I need to work on for sure.

283

And I think it's a by product of being

a professional speaker where literally

284

I just talk for an hour and people

285

Jake: Right.

286

Yep.

287

And what's amazing is if you use

this 210 rule during, uh, I've

288

done public speaking all over.

289

I've been invited to

speak internationally.

290

And one thing I've noticed is if you use

a 210 rule during speaking, it's amazing.

291

And what the 210 rule in speaking is

for every two minutes that you talk,

292

you invite a person An interaction with

the group, like, does this make sense?

293

Hey, is everybody with me?

294

So you do that every 10

minutes, two minutes.

295

And then at the end of 10 minutes,

you kind of go, listen, I've

296

been blathering for a while.

297

We covered a lot of topics.

298

Any questions have come up in the

audience, so you open it up again.

299

So what you find happens is, since people

are constantly generating questions

300

in their head, you give the audience

a chance to empty their head out to

301

focus on what you're going to say next.

302

The last public speaker I taught

this to, he was amazed at the

303

difference in his presentations

and the audience involvement.

304

Julie: So within conversations,

I have heard you say that there

305

is a power of using the word.

306

The word could versus the word should.

307

Tell me a little bit about

308

Jake: Yeah, sure, and there's a

lot of power words like that, and

309

could and should are super powerful.

310

So, think about the last

time you made a decision.

311

And that decision did not pan

out and you're thinking, Oh

312

God, I should have done that.

313

A very good friend of mine used to tell

me you can't shouldn't have anything

314

or you can't should have anything

because it's just not possible.

315

So reframing these thoughts,

like what should I do to

316

reach this revenue this year?

317

Change that to could.

318

And what winds up happening

is you start to brainstorm.

319

About things that you can

do to make that happen.

320

Walt Disney had a famous saying, and

it was, I look at what everybody else

321

does, and then I do the exact opposite.

322

So he never said I should

do what they're doing.

323

He said, what can I do, even if it's

not what everybody else is doing?

324

And when you start reprogramming your

brain to say that lousy decision,

325

that bad refrigerator I bought,

Oh, I should have shopped more.

326

Well, could you have shopped more?

327

Are you cash strapped?

328

Were you time strapped?

329

When you start thinking about what you

can do versus what you should do, it

330

creates an entire change in mindset.

331

But changing the could for

should take some effort.

332

For those of us who always say I

should have done this, it's very

333

difficult to change into that.

334

Let me substitute in the word could,

335

Julie: Yeah.

336

So, the listeners know that

I love, I'm a Peloton addict.

337

I love the tread, the bike,

the mat workouts, the yoga

338

workouts, and Jess Sims is one

of the instructors I really enjoy.

339

And she always reminds us at the

beginning of every, , workout,

340

like you don't have to do this.

341

You get to do this.

342

And there's so many people,

whether they are sick or, you

343

know, for whatever reason, can't

move the way your body moves.

344

So you don't have to do it.

345

You get to do it.

346

And I think that's also, that is chain.

347

I love working out, but there are days

where I'm like, ah, I can't believe

348

I have to do this this morning.

349

No, I don't have to, I get

350

Jake: Right.

351

And that is a great difference in mindset.

352

Another great difference in

mindset is changing nouns to verbs.

353

So I, a good example is if somebody

says, I love dogs, you get the idea

354

that they, they do love dogs, but

it could be a temporary mindset.

355

That's much different than

saying I'm a dog lover that

356

implies past, present and future.

357

So when you say you like to ride

Peloton instead of saying, you

358

know, uh, I like to ride the bike.

359

I'm a biker.

360

I like to run.

361

I'm a runner.

362

It starts changing your mindset

to say this is going to happen

363

well into the future as well

as happening into the present.

364

So all these different

little word changes.

365

You know, there was a great book.

366

What do we say when we talk to ourselves?

367

It, that's a lot of the key

things changing keywords.

368

Julie: I think, and I can't remember, it

might have been the book Atomic Habits,

369

where it said if you start calling

yourself something, you'll become it.

370

Like, if you, if you want to be a runner,

you don't say, oh, I want to be a runner.

371

You say, no, I'm a runner.

372

Even if you run 10 feet,

you're running, guess what?

373

You're a runner.

374

So there is.

375

power in that.

376

It's just a constant reminder

in your brain to do it.

377

And I feel like my prefrontal cortex

is already like overloaded with all the

378

decisions I have to make every single day.

379

And reminding myself of these changes, I

feel like is hard for my, my prefrontal

380

cortex is like, aren't we doing all right.

381

All right.

382

We don't have, you know,

383

Jake: Well, making changes one at a

time is definitely helpful as well.

384

There's no question that the dieting

market is, is a tough market because

385

they ask you to make wholesale changes.

386

You wouldn't normally change.

387

So the self taught market is the same way.

388

Change one piece of self taught for a

month until it becomes a habit, then add

389

another in and, uh, it's more manageable.

390

Because as humans, we like to think

we have this unlimited amount of

391

brain power and honestly, we don't.

392

It needs to be chunked out and delivered

in little pieces so we can assimilate it.

393

Julie: Yeah, like I just I feel like at

any given moment in my day i'm facing

394

decision fatigue and that is also creating

structures around you where you don't

395

have to make so many decisions like

plan out what you're gonna wear the

396

night before and put out your running

clothes the night before like you're Have

397

decisions already made for you so that,

you're not taxing your, decision making

398

abilities, so much throughout the day.

399

Jake: Yeah, and I just wrote a

newsletter article on this very thing.

400

I read that a scientist agreed

that we make close to 30, 000

401

decisions in any given day.

402

So yeah, decision fatigue is very real.

403

Julie: I call it like in my brain,

like the Baskin Robbins is like, if

404

you went to an ice cream store and

there was chocolate and vanilla easy

405

to, Oh, you wouldn't sit in there

and ha for 40 minutes, but you go.

406

To like, an ice cream stand, there's 47.

407

You have no idea what you want, because

you don't want to make the wrong idea.

408

It's like, it's fucking ice cream.

409

Just get an ice cream.

410

If you don't like it, get another one.

411

Yeah.

412

Jake: my mother in law to a diner

just this past week, and it had

413

eight pages packed with food choices.

414

It's like, this is stressful

picking out a food choice.

415

You know, give me five items on the menu.

416

And then

417

Julie: yeah,

418

Jake: from there.

419

Julie: I know, I know, I'm like,

literally prefrontal cortexes

420

are like, give me a break.

421

I mean, I don't know, we probably weren't

designed, evolutionary, to make this

422

many fast twitch decisions all day long.

423

Jake: what were our choices back then?

424

Again, this is what could we have

done versus what should we have done.

425

Well, I have to go to the bathroom.

426

I know I have to fill my

stomach and I need to be warm.

427

So how am I going to

do those three things?

428

And we have more to worry about nowadays.

429

Julie: Yeah, and , the 30, 000 decisions

a day, it's just, it's, it's, And I

430

can't remember the research around

it, but, but how many marketing

431

messages our brain sees every day,

like our brains are doing a lot.

432

Even if you think they're not doing

anything, they're doing a lot.

433

I'm I've tried for years to be a

meditator and I, and I'm, and I'm not.

434

Jake: and me

435

Julie: I'm

436

Jake: I can't either.

437

Yeah,

438

Julie: like the power of suggestion.

439

I am a meditator is not working

for me Jake, but um this woman Um

440

ann swanson just sent me this book

meditation for the real world And

441

it's about and I just started it.

442

And it's literally about just finding

moments of silence within your day

443

like even if you're standing even if

you're outside like just close like

444

even if you just close your eyes for

10 seconds like Shutting out all of

445

the decisions and all the messages

and everything just for a little bit,

446

like even if in very minute pieces.

447

So I'm, I'm trying that out because I am

never going to be a sit down and meditate

448

for 30 minutes a day kind of person.

449

It's just not

450

Jake: There's a great course that is

given in Neuro Linguistic Programming that

451

teaches you how to get out of that rush

mindset and get into a more relaxed state.

452

And there's some very basic

exercises you can do to do that.

453

And it's hysterical, even though I'm

a master practitioner of it, I still

454

don't take the time that I should.

455

You just get overwhelmed with

everything under the sun.

456

Julie: Yeah.

457

I think there's for me, I've

always been a hustler.

458

I just, the way I grew up wanting

to get out of certain circumstances

459

and make my own life for myself.

460

And I think there's part of me in

my evolution where I feel like if I

461

slow down, the world will pass me by.

462

Like, I will miss something.

463

I won't be, , hustling.

464

That is a mindset shift I have to work on.

465

I'm almost 50 years old.

466

I do not have my shit together.

467

That is a mindset shift

I still have to work on.

468

Jake: into the water and she's a

master diver and she's like, Dad,

469

you have the shark mentality.

470

You have to keep swimming

just to breathe and live.

471

And that's the way it goes.

472

So , we're a lot alike in that respect.

473

If I'm not constantly moving.

474

Julie: Yeah, we're sharks, dude.

475

We're sharks.

476

We stop moving, we just keel over and die.

477

Like, you have to remind ourselves

so that our, our systems will

478

continue to work even at rest.

479

Oh, so we could have talked about a lot of

480

Jake: I know.

481

We really could have, we could

have, uh, could have spent a

482

Julie: too bad, it's

too bad our time is up.

483

We'll have to have a repeat.

484

We'll talk

485

Jake: We'll have a sequel.

486

Julie: Yeah, if you want to learn

more about Jake and the work he does

487

with the companies that he works

with and how he could work with your

488

company, visit jakestahlconsulting.

489

com.

490

I will put a link to

that in the show notes.

491

And thanks for being here today.

492

I really loved our conversation.

493

Jake: welcome.

494

And people can also find me

on LinkedIn if they choose to.

495

So please feel free to, to hit me there.

496

But yeah, this was a true pleasure.

497

Thanks very much for this

broad span of topics.

498

This was wonderful.

499

Julie: Right.

500

We were everywhere.

501

Thanks

502

Jake: You're welcome.

503

I stayed after probably every

interview, but there really was some

504

great stuff in this conversation.

505

I think the thing that was most impactful

for me simply because of how easy

506

it is to begin to put into practice.

507

Was the idea of changing

out nouns for verbs.

508

I absolutely loved this.

509

It begins that small repetitive

activity, your pattern in your

510

brain, that mindset shift.

511

That will help propel you to bigger

actions in that in the long run.

512

Also the should versus could conversation

and the lesson within that, I think

513

that will be something that will

be helpful as I go forward as well.

514

And I'm excited to start shifting out.

515

Could for, should.

516

Okay.

517

Onto the drink of the week.

518

I'm still in my silver fitness

challenge and we're on day 18.

519

Today's date, 18 of that.

520

So we have another mocktail for ya.

521

It's the Virgin pina colada.

522

And if you don't want it,

you know, without alcohol,

523

just toss some rum into it.

524

This recipe makes four servings.

525

And here's what you're going to need.

526

Two cups of pineapple juice, three

fourths cups of cream of coconut.

527

Very important cream of

coconut, not coconut milk.

528

Four cups of ice.

529

And then for garnishes pineapple

wedges and maraschino cherries.

530

, what you're going to do is you're

going to pour the pineapple juice

531

and the cream of coconut into a very

high powered blender, add the ice and

532

then blend for like 30 to 60 seconds.

533

I put it in my eyeball.

534

Like a ninja.

535

, blender.

536

That's what I do this thing, because

it really can chop up the ice.

537

, so blend it until smooth, pour

it into some fancy glasses.

538

And then garnish with a

pineapple and cherries.

539

All right.

540

Friends.

541

And it's all for this week.

542

If you like what you heard

today, please leave a review

543

and subscribe to the podcast.

544

Also, please remember to share the podcast

to help it reach a larger audience.

545

If you want more.

546

Julie Brown that's me.

547

You can find my book.

548

This shit works on Amazon

or Barnes and noble.

549

You can find me on

LinkedIn, Julie Brown BD.

550

Just send me a note and let

me know where you found me.

551

When you reached out.

552

I am Julie Brown underscore BD

on the Instagram, or you can

553

pop on over to my website, Julie

Brown, bd.com until next week.

554

Cheers.