Get ready to boldly go where no manager has gone before in an episode stacked with leadership lessons from Captain Kirk and New Edition.

In this insightful episode, Liz and Kere dive deep into the differences between leadership and management, using iconic examples from Star Trek's Captain Kirk and the legendary R&B group New Edition.

Discover the key traits that set visionary leaders apart - from having a clear mission and empowering their team, to embracing authenticity and vulnerability. Get ready to be inspired as the hosts unpack leadership lessons from each member of New Edition, exploring how qualities like business savvy, second chances, and putting the team first can take your career to new heights.

Whether you consider yourself more of a manager or a leader, this episode is packed with practical takeaways to help you boldly go further in your professional journey. Tune in now and get ready to take your leadership journey to new heights!

Hey, everybody. Liz Nolley here.

And I'm Kere Thomas.

And welcome back to the Just Us with Liz and Kere podcast, a place for Black women navigating corporate spaces.

That's right. I love it, Liz. Liz, before we get started, can I just say I'm loving the shirt and the reference? I know we probably have a generation of kids that don't know what it means.

Don't go there.

Like Amir. Our director, who had no idea.

Amir, where is your black card?

I didn't know you were going to call out the black card.

OK, OK, OK, OK, OK, OK, OK, OK, OK.Let me let me let me let me take a pause and regroup because the whole reason why we do this podcast is to help those climbing up behind us elevate.

Reach back and pull one.

So in the spirit of training them up training them up in the way that they should go, Amir, Google Charlie Murphy true Hollywood story Prince and on the show people will start to see that we wear stuff that kind of represents who we are. I wish this was my design because we could sell it at the store at on the store at lizthepurposecoach.com/store.

Shameless plug.

Not so shameless plug. There's nothing shameless about these plugs, but we're not going there anyway. But unlike your shirt, which will soon be on our show, I mean, on the store rather.

Yes.

I have one thing to say about that. Pancakes.

Game blouses.

Kere Thomas 00:2:13

All right, Liz, let's have a teachable moment. OK, wait, wait, wait.

All right, hold on. Let me get my laptop. Even my mama knows what that means, Amir. But never mind. Okay, sorry. See? I got to get my spirit right. He's taking my spirit.

I tell you what, come next episode. He is going to know.

And if y'all are watching, put it in the comments, help brother out, help our director out. Okay. So anyway, let's get into today's teachable moment. Which is all about how the best leaders, like Prince, lead a band. See how I made that? I came full circle there.

I saw what you did there.

You saw what I did there, okay. How the best leaders build teams that win. All right. And, you know, I think as we're navigating corporate spaces, it's important to understand the difference between leadership and management. So, Kere, in your view, what makes a great manager? Let's talk about managers for a second.

A great manager is someone that recognizes your strengths and then they allow you to excel in that role. And they block you from opposition. They're like your quarterback.

Okay. Well, if that's what pours into making a great manager? What then makes a great leader?

A great leader, which can also be a manager, but more likely is someone that is comfortable setting the strategy for what you're doing. Like, this is what we need to do. Let's talk about how we're going to do it and then I'm going to keep everything out of your way so that's. If I'm going to use a football analogy, your manager is the good quarterback. Your leader is that coach off on the sidelines guiding you.

Oh, I love that. Hold on. Yes. I'm too old to be doing that, but Kere’s got bars.

So anyway, you're absolutely right. So here are a couple of things. Managers, I love the quarterback coach analogy because a quarterback stands behind that offensive line and...is like almost commanding and controlling the quote end quote march down the field, right? So managers tend to, in corporate settings, they tend to be more task oriented and assignment driven. And managers derive their authority and influence by the role or the position that they hold. Right. So the quarterback is the general on the field. But there could be another leader somewhere else on the field. But when it comes to executing game plans, the quarterback is in control. Right. So it's more of a command and controls kind of a role. And managers in corporate environments benefit when the corporate culture is more hierarchical and more driven by a ‘respect the position’ versus there's corporate cultures where that kind of management style wouldn't fit well, right? Because they run their organizations in a much more flat kind of way. And managers tend to be, there's the carrot and the stick, right? So they rely on incentives when motivating other people, like more pay or time off, or whatever it winds up being. Right. And a truth is, that's not all.

OK, I know you've worked for this person who was in a manager position. And just by virtue of being in a management position, they thought that they were a great leader.

Yes.

Wait, hold on. There's some very important black conversation happening here. OK, but the fact of the matter is, is that not all great managers are great leaders, but to be effective as a team, you actually need both. You need both energies and both skill sets. So here's the truth about effective leaders. Right. On the other side of the coin is that, you know, leadership isn't about a title or position. How many titles and positions have we had in our professional lives, in our community service lives? Like, it's not about a position or a title you can be a leader even if you're the low person on the on the corporate totem pole.

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah.

So leadership is more about a mindset and a behavior. And that's the beauty of leadership is that anybody can learn to be a leader. Leadership is all about being driven by your values and a mission, right? Versus money and the carrot and the stick. It's all about, I'm following you because I believe in you, right? Or I believe in where the organization is going.

The best leaders embrace their authenticity and their vulnerability. Leaders, as a leader, you don't have to be perfect, right? And sometimes it's better if you're not— if you just own your mistakes. Have you ever worked for somebody like that? Like, were you actually respected them more?

I have actually. I've had, you know, I'm fortunate enough to have had several excellent leaders. Sometimes they were my manager and sometimes they weren't. Sometimes they were just people that I observed. And I think of one president that I supported in this role and she was a unique person when she came into the company. She brought a completely different mindset that traditional corporate was not ready for. She was an out-of-the-box thinker and she had a different way of doing things. But she was willing to be authentically herself and to share the mistakes that she made or the things that she struggled with in order to connect with all of us. And I think that's what made me resonate with her. You know, I have a... I have a funny story to say about her. We were doing an event and I was traveling with her. So she came to my hotel room to pick up a T-shirt.

And a friend of mine was coming to the city to hang out with me. And she came to the door and she knocked on the door. And this president, she went to the door. She opens the door and she's like, 'What's up?' And my friend was like, 'What is happening here?' She's like, 'That's your boss?' Right. The authenticity of that and just her willingness to be real and be human.

That is why people connected with her. And then she's a smart person on top of it. She's great at what she does and knows how to mobilize her teams. That's what makes her a great leader.

Yeah, I love that story because, you know, it is about relatability. Right. Right. And a lot of what we do on this show is around, you know, teaching sort of heady or serious content but in a relatable way. Great leaders also are really good at surrounding themselves by great people and then getting out of their way and let them go be great right so another leadership behavior because it's not just about just because I’m the leader I have to be out in front all the time.

So I also have like the flip side of that with someone who thinks that just because they're in charge that they're a great leader and I very often have to tell them.

Wait, wait, you see my face, right? Because I know her. I know her. So I'm sorry. Go ahead.

But I often have to say, like, listen— just because, you know, your name is on it does not mean that you're the one really doing the best job at this. You're a great manager because you're getting the work done. But in terms of leading your people, people don't want to talk to you. People are concerned. The way that the place is running is a question for a lot of the employees. So, yeah, I think, you know, look at your leadership.

I love that example because it goes back to exactly what we just said about managers, right? Like, just because you have the position or the title doesn't make you a great leader.

Right.

Anyway, so and it doesn't mean that you're going to inspire people to follow you, which is another trait of great leaders. Right. So, you know, I always go back to the reason why your why is important. And it's the whole reason why I named my coaching practice Purpose-Filled Coaching is because it all starts with why. And one of the most transformational 18 minutes you could spend on Al Gore's internet is watching this TED Talk from Simon Sinek. And it's called How Great Leaders Inspire Action. And in it, he talks about the difference. He talks about how Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. at the March on Washington gave the 'I Have a Dream' speech, which is very visionary, versus the 'I Have a Plan' speech, which is very management. Right. And I think that, there's a lot of other good nuggets in the 18 minutes. Please go watch it. But, you know, but I think when I think of leadership versus management, I always kind of go back to that nugget because leadership is aspirational, inspirational, motivational. But it's all about your mission. You're driven, mission-driven, and purpose-oriented, right?

Imagine if he had a plan. We would not be listening to that speech 50 years later. Nobody would care.

It's like Barack Obama. Yes, we can. Not yes, we plan. Right. And speaking of the mission, you know, like I'm going to leave my I'm a close my teachable moment with this model for effective leadership that I think I first tripped over it. I can't remember if I was in undergrad or in grad school, but I had a professor. who liked to teach using pop culture references. And obviously his style resonated with my own. And he shared one of the most powerful models for effective leadership that I think I've ever seen. And it's stuck with me and it's proven the test of time, and space as it were, and that is you only need to look to James Tiberius Kirk, the captain of the Starship Enterprise from one of the most effective leadership models you could ever find anywhere, anyplace. Don't worry. If you're not a Trekkie, it's okay. It's gonna be okay.

Let's point out that you are referring to Star Trek TOS. The original series. The original series. Nothing against Sir Patrick Stewart, though. No, that's true. No, I love him too.

And Whoopi and the King of Reading Rainbow and everybody else that was on that show. But it all starts. Let's go back to the roots of where it all began to Star Trek, the original series. I just said leadership is mission-oriented. In our episode, Captain Kirk. Our five-year mission. To explore brave new worlds, to seek out new worlds, new lives, and new civilizations to boldly go where no man has gone before. Like, you know what it is. You know what the show is about. You know what they were charged with. At the top. Right off the bat, right? And even though I didn't get the words 100% right, we know it all these years later because...they followed their mission every single episode. And invited us to come along too. And reminded, right. So it was all about the mission, right? Which was one of the things Captain Kirk was very clear about, right? In his captain's log.

Mission-oriented, right? But... Remember, we said that one of the best things an effective leader can do is surround themselves with people and then get out of their way and give them the air cover, like you were talking about. To let them go be great. Captain Kirk wasn't the strongest person or the smartest person on the Enterprise.

That was Mr. Spock.

Exactly, right? Captain Kirk didn't know the most about the inner workings of the ship, couldn't fix a dilithium crystal if it blew out, that was.

Scottie.

Exactly. He didn't drive the ship and navigate or anything like that. That was—

Mr. Sulu. Mr. Sulu.

Right. And if somebody got sick—

Bones. Dr. McCoy.

And he wasn't the one making contact with the people in these brave new worlds and new civilizations. That was our Soror.

Uhura.

Lieutenant Uhura, who Dr. King, interestingly, she was going to quit the show. Did you know that she was going to quit the show? And she ran into Dr. King at an event and he said, 'You can't quit because my little girls, this is the only place on television that my little girls can see themselves. You can't quit. And my little girls aren't unique. We need you there.' I'm paraphrasing, of course. Right. Conversation probably went a little different than that.

But you weren't there.

I wasn't. But she stayed on the show. And we're all so glad she did. Yeah, absolutely. Because representation matters, right? So you have this amazing team of specialists that Captain Kirk had, and all of them were great in their respective areas. And Captain Kirk's job was to, one, anchor them and connect all that diversity with the mission, keep them focused on the mission. And then he got out of their way and let them do their job. But if they got into trouble, right? If the Federation came on board and questioned something like that, he was there to give them air cover.

I love the end of the episodes where it's him, Spock, and Bones— just kiki-ing and they're going back and forth on how unemotional Spock is or teasing him about having an emotional moment or whatever the case may be. But, you know, but you make a great point because Kirk was authentic and he was vulnerable. He took his punches. And his people would literally go through time and space for him. Right.

So, just as a few reminders, what I love about this model, Captain Kirk and the crew of the USS Starship Enterprise, reminds us that rank doesn't make you the smartest, most educated, or most capable member of the team. Right. And it also doesn't inspire loyalty like that manager you had. Right. And you got to surround yourself with others who are strong in areas where you have room to grow. I think Captain Kirk did that extremely well. Absolutely. Like we just talked about. Make sure everyone's clear on the mission. Yep. Right. And then take a 'let's go' together approach, not a 'you go' approach. Right. That's management. That's military. That's command and controls versus a 'let's go'. Like, yeah, it was amazing how many episodes Kirk, Spock and Bones, like the leaders of the Enterprise, would beam down to the planet along with the red shirts. Exactly. We knew who was coming back.

I was just about to say, 'Whenever you saw that red shirt.'

We knew who wasn't coming back, but the fact of the matter is that's a 'let's go' move—not a 'you go.' Right.

I'm still going to go down there with you, even though the script says I'm going to come back. That might not. Never mind.

Moving on. And we've talked about this before on the show. It's important to embrace diversity, right? In terms of backgrounds, skill sets, perspectives, right? And I love the mission because the mission was to boldly go where no man had gone before. It wasn't to boldly go and conquer new worlds and new civilizations. It was to explore new worlds and new civilizations, right? There was no colonizing happening with the USS Enterprise. If anything, they were there to prevent colonization. Right. To protect what was already there. To protect because they valued diversity, right? And they had a diverse set of skills, backgrounds, perspectives in the leadership team of the Enterprise. And last but not least, they modeled Captain Kirk in particular as their leader, modeled. Leaning into transparency and vulnerability, yes. So, and as a bonus, the other thing that I really think effective leaders can do is to leverage mindfulness. At the beginning and throughout each episode, and often at the end, Captain Kirk always took time to reflect and appreciate his people in person. And then he also went into his captain's log to reflect on what happened and you know, give people pats on the back and give them accolades and things of that nature.

Thank you. So support that. Yeah.

So that's the teachable moment for today. But before we close out this segment, I want to ask you, I want to ask you out there too, when it comes to your career, do you think you're a better leader or a better manager? And what's one thing you could do to become a better leader?

Oh, wow. A lot of people would say that I am a leader.

I would say that.

I mean, I don't really consider myself, well, no, because I have people that I have managed that have told me, like, I'm a great manager. But I definitely like to give people the room to do what they need to do, get out of their way, as long as we're all set on what the game plan is. I'm gonna let you do that. Yeah. And I also try to be as real as possible. I think that's if you connect with me on that, then you are meeting me where I am. I don't like to have to put on airs or whatever in order to manage you. I want to be real with you. I want to tell you what I like, what I don't like. But then I want you to take that and go do what you need to do.

I love that you said that because I know I'm at my best as both a leader or a manager when I could be myself. Right? And that creating space for that to happen goes both ways. Yeah. Right. And I know for myself, I think I flex in and flex out of leadership and management just depending upon what the moment requires. I'd like to think that I'm a good manager because I know how to get stuff done. And I'd like to think that I'm a good leader.

I'm speaking from experience. That's true.

We have had that working relationship. Over the years. Over the years, several times. So thank you. I receive it. I receive it. But one thing I know that I can do to be a better, more effective leader is to stop taking things personally. Especially at work, because nothing at work is personal, it's just business. But you're a human at work, so sometimes it's easier said than done. But I know sometimes I take things personally in business when I shouldn't. That's my own teachable moment for myself. That's something that I'm striving to get better at.

I think for me, I tend to be...I don't know. I tend to be more passive than I hear other people would like me to be in my leadership roles. So I think that's something that I would look to improve on.

Yes, ma'am. I have been told.

But yeah. But all jokes aside, that is exactly why. I reached out to you to see if you would co-host this thing and come on this journey with me. Yeah. Because you have an amazing voice and I think the world needs to hear more of your voice.

Oh, thank you. I receive.

Anyway. We're going to take a pause for the cause in this love fest and transition it to our next segment. But that's today's Teachable Moment. What do you think?

Thank you, Liz. I appreciate it. And I do want to hear what our viewers slash listeners out there think about manager versus leader. Where do you sit and what do you think are some of the things that you want to work on? Yeah. So you know what I say we do next? One of my favorite things.

Only Liz would come on here and do the entire. Okay. Okay. I'm going to stop you right there.

You've climbed the ladder, checked all the boxes, yet still something's missing. You crave more than just success. You want significance, a career aligned with your purpose. I help corporate women bridge the gap between what they do and who they are. Through transformational coaching, I guide you to gain clarity, align your work with your calling, and lead with confidence and purpose.

So whether you're ready for a shift, a breakthrough, or a new beginning, you don't have to navigate it alone. Purpose discovery and activation, leadership and professional development, mentoring and coaching, all designed for high achieving women. ready to do meaningful work. I'm Liz, the Purpose Coach. Let's align your ambition with your assignment. Book your free discovery call today at LizThePurposeCoach.com.

So I'm good in the vein of leadership and our love of pop culture references once again, you introed it with your little New Edition dance. So Liz, let's talk about top 10 leadership lessons from new edition.

Alright. Let's get, let's get into it. We will get into it. So I have one, two, three lessons, four lessons. That are kind of more general. And then we'll go into one lesson each from Ronnie, Bobby, Ricky, Mike…Ralph and Johnny. I love it. Because you can't say their names in any other cadence.

You have to say it that way. You absolutely cannot.

Unless you're Raphael Sadiq. That's it. That's the only exception to that rule. The only one. Okay. All right, cool. So first, let's get into it.

Some of these are from the text that we're going to draw from today for today's reading is the New Edition biopic. Right. So that's our anchoring text because we have to come back to the book of New Edition. All right. So the first one is we talked about mission, right? In our teachable moment. The first thing is you have to have a vision and a mission.

Absolutely.

New Edition. They are textbook case of what happens when you have a clear vision of what you want to be and where you want to go. They weren't, you know, they weren't aspiring to just be the next Jackson 5. They wanted to find their own voice and being kids growing up in the era that they grew up in from Boston. They were influenced by hip hop, R & B, and dance music, everything so they leaned into their own authenticity and came up with this mélange of sounds. While I mean, part of what got them into trouble with their production team, outside of a horrible contract, which we'll get into in a minute, was this kind of creative conflict over vision. They had a very clear vision of where they wanted to go. Like, yeah, they knew they could kind of sort, you know, Jackson 5 was their inspiration, but they wanted to be their own group with their own voice in their own style yes So that's number one. And part and parcel to that was finding the right members of the team.

So the new edition biopic teaches us that in the beginning read there was Bobby, Mike and Ricky and they were all friends from the neighborhood and stuff and they wanted to win this talent show. The biopic further teaches us that they saw this kid named Ralph Tresvant from another neighborhood who could sing. And they were like, oh, everybody's got a trio.

That guy, Ralph, we need him on our team. He can make us better, right? And then we'll be a quartet, and that'll give us an extra leg up on the competition, right? So in business, that's the same as assessing the market. Scoping out your competition, knowing where you're strong, where the weaknesses are, and what the opportunities are and what the threats are. Yes, that was just a SWOT analysis. Thank you, New Edition. And then going out and recruiting the right talent to help you get positioned for success so that you can meet the needs of the market.

Sometimes you need to partner or merge in order to be successful.

Yeah, 100%. We see it every day. Absolutely. We see it every day. So that's the second lesson from going back to the text and this is something I know as marketing and pr professionals we love to talk about and truly appreciate yeah and that is branding. New Edition, they have built a clear brand from like their moves. Like, you know, everybody knows that this is like the Temptations. Everybody knows this is Four Tops. Everybody knows.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Whenever you hear a New Edition song, you automatically go into that routine.

And you have for decades. Yeah, 30 plus. And like the mega brands, the Nikes, the Coca-Colas, the Apples, their brand has evolved over the years. as they have evolved over the years, but there's that core essence of it that is new addition.

That foundational element never changes, and that's how you know it's new addition.

And even when they did their brand extensions, BBD, you know, and LSG. Yes. All the G's, I guess. I don't know. But, you know, and Bobby Brown went solo or whatever. Like, there was still this kind of connected tissue in the universe something that connected them right and it's all the essence of New Edition and they have been true to their brand from the way that they dress to their dance moves to their harmonies how they sing you know there's a signature there.

One of my favorite things about going to a new edition show is that you get to relive everything about them over and over again. It's funny because we talked about the how, you know, 30 plus years, some things still remain the same. But it's also funny how they've been able to incorporate what's happened along the way. So if you go to a New Edition show now, you see the core group. You see Bobby by himself. You see Bobby leave the stage because he quit. And then you see him come back. You see Johnny do his pieces. You see Ralph do their pieces. And I love how they all still remain core to their brand.

They're like a house of brands.

Okay, cool. Now, the fourth thing, number four, is the moms. If you go back to our text in the New Edition biopic, they got that horrible contract. Right, the TLC deal, right? A lot of times when our young folks hit it big, they buy houses and cars and all these because they get this advance money. Yeah. Right. But what they learned very early on in their careers were to beware the recoupable expenses. I didn't even know what a recoupable expense was before I watched this TV show. But it's the same in business, right? Like you can make a big profit. You can generate a lot of revenue. But if you don't manage your expenses. And I've worked in insurance for a long time. So that expense ratio is just as important to manage as that combined ratio is on the other side, right? Because that eats away at your profitability. Right. Yep. And so the profitability piece matters and you have to manage your expenses. So that's what I'm working, walking away with the moms.

That's also a good thing for, you know, we, we have corporate women who listen this show, but also we have women entrepreneurs who listen. And that is a core thing that we deal with on a day-to-day basis is understanding how to manage your business.

And manage your money. Secure the bag.

Secure the bag. Sis.

I'll say it again. Make sure that bag is secure. Secure the bag. Right. I don't know how many ways we need to say it, but just because you make what you think is quote end quote good money. Right. It's only good money if you save it, invest it and find a way to make your money work for you.

We're going to get into that on another episode. Yes, we have to. We are.

Yes. But if you take every dollar, if you spend your money before you make it, it's not it'll never be enough money. Right. Right. So shout out to the moms for teaching us to be aware of the recoupable expenses.

Now let’s get to Ronnie, Bobby, Ricky, Mike.

Ralph and Johnny. Ralph and Johnny. All right. So let's start with Johnny, the newest New Edition. And the lesson from Johnny is the importance of recruiting and hiring a specialist when you need it. And being able to change to grow. Whether you're trying to change to grow from boys to men.

See what I did there? Or if you're trying to evolve your business into a new market. Sometimes you have to reorganize to change, to grow. Sometimes you have to reposition yourself in your entrepreneurial life to grow and everything. And the addition of Johnny Gill to the group was really a representation of that concept, right? They knew they had to evolve.

They needed it to evolve and they needed to switch things up to reinvigorate themselves. Enter Johnny.

And it's also a nice lesson in diversity. Johnny's voice was so wildly different. So different. Than all the other voices in New Edition.

And he made a mark with that voice because who doesn't know Johnny's part on the end of Can You Stand the Rain? Who always does that same thing? And that was markedly different from previous ballads that they had put out. So, yeah.

Although, shout out to Ricky, my favorite part is no pressure, no pressure. But anyway. We don't want to lose our audience. Stay with us. Stay with us. Stay with us. Don't leave. Okay.

Bring it back. All right. Okay.

So that's Johnny. Hire a specialist, diversity and change, to grow. Right? Yeah. Now, Ralph. Ralph Tresvant to me he represents what he teaches us is that you can be the one out in front, but still help the team. Yeah. And not make it all about you. I saw an interview with them. I want to say they were on the Sherri Shepherd show. And Michael Bivens called Ralph Tresvant the best front man in the business. And it wasn't like a Diana Ross and them situation. Or a Beyonce and them situation, and it never has been. Yeah, and I think that Ralph shows that you can be that guy out in front, but you can also still help the team while you're doing it. Right. And that goes back to, you know, other episodes where we talked about the Wu-Tang Clan and teamwork and everything like that. And I just think Ralph Charles Smith is a beautiful reminder of that. Yes, he had his own solo career. He could have a solo career. He could do his own thing, whatever, whatever. And he is an amazing front man. But he's still all about helping the team. Right. So thank you, Ralph Tresvant.

And he's a man with sensitivity. So who doesn't like that? I couldn't resist. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You heard it coming. You saw it coming, right? Game blouses. So anyway.

Pancakes. Pancakes.

Now, next up is probably my most favorite member of New Edition. All right. Go. Oh, me?

I'll let you do the honors.

Mike. Mike um and you know why…Mike is the business, man. He's a business man for real for real.

Now, I think, and it wasn't personal when he did it.

Well, I was just going to say, like, was that self-serving or did he learn something as a businessman?

Liz Nolley

And I think, in our corporate journeys, a lot of times we see the leaders we work with or report to doing things that we're like. I don't know why I do it. I wouldn't do it that way when I run the company. I wouldn't. I would get up there because you're not privy to the air up there. Yeah. You're just not there. You're just not there. So you're just kind of like— so you don't have a full set of facts and you don't understand the context behind that decision. But once you get there, your perspective changes.

He learned that. But you also have to learn, which I think Mike is an example of, is how to evolve that and how to be more truthful, not even truthful, but more open the groups that you're managing or the people that you're managing about why you're making some of the moves that you're making. And I think that's one way the you know, the landscape of his business has evolved. Whereas before it was just like, take this contract or leave it. But he has helped people become more, here's the contract and here's why. You're going to get this contract.

He's added a little personal to the business, which I think is that nice mix that effective leaders do. Right. So cool. Shout out to Michael Bivens. Then Ricky what I love about Ricky Bell I mean think about new edition they had not one not two but pre johnny gill original new edition they had three lead singers yeah three three lead singers, and I think people kind of...

Arguably, the best one would be Ricky.

People sleep on Ricky, but no pressure. You just proved my point, right? Shout out to Ricky Bell. But the lesson here is there's room for everyone to be great. Yeah. For everyone to be great. Yeah. She's blowing me out of my mind. So, moving on. Everybody should be great. And I think Ricky Bell can play his position when he needs to. But when his solos come out...That's what you remember. And I think the brilliance of his talent got showcased during the BBD era. But he's comfortable there, but he's also comfortable playing his position as a member of New Edition. So there's room for everybody to be great. So thank you, Ricky Bell. I'm sorry, Ricardo Bell.

Back in school, we used to dream about this every day. Did it really happen?

That's the wrong group.

That’s Boys II Men.

Oh, my bad. We're going to have to cut that part out. Okay.

All right. So, first, we gave Michael Lamont Bivens his shout-out. We gave Ralph Edward Tresvant and Johnny Gill Jr. their shout-outs. Yes, because this is their government. Yes, because this is about paying homage to the people who provided the soundtrack of our youth. Okay. And we gave Ricardo Bell his flowers. So now we are up to Robert Barrisfield Brown Sr.

Probably the most recognizable member of the group. And my second favorite, just because he's full of the antics.

Okay. Okay. And that would be the one, the only, the incomparable.

Incomparable it is.

Bobby Brown.

Who married Whitney Houston to the envy of literally the world. Right.

Envy and ire, if I might add.

So Bobby Brown, what I love about Bobby Brown is he embodies the importance of second chances. The 'comeback kid.' And comebacks. In business, I read a book about failing fast, and that's how innovation happens. If you fail fast, you can come back from a failure. What you can't come back from is repeating the same failure over and over and over and over and over again. Right. Right. So there is benefit to failing fast because that's how you learn what doesn't work. And learning what doesn't work is just as important as learning what does work, right? But you have to allow for that second chance, for that comeback, for that trial and error. It's not just about trial all the time to learn. And Bobby Brown teaches us that, I think, in the most beautiful way.

You know, the only way to have a success is to have a failure.

You did it again.

I know. I told you I'm full of them today.

I can't remember if it was Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant who said, you know, it's not about the shots that they make on game day. It's all about the ones that they miss in practice.

Make them absolutely more effective on game. Right. Right. Because you learn what not to do. Exactly. So shout out to Bobby Brown. Shout out to Bobby Brown. All right. So we've got. So here we go.

And number 10 and number one in my teeny bopper heart back when they first took the world by storm with Candy Girl. My favorite. None other than Ronald Boyd DeVoe Jr. Hashtag Team Ronnie. All day. Err day. Sorry, not sorry. Sorry.

Sorry.

They barely let him sing or talk occasionally early on in the early, early, early, early years. Right. They let him do like a line of rap. Right. But he's part of New Edition and what he teaches us and he's my favorite part of New Edition. And he teaches us that you can still stand tall, look good. Stand tall in the back, look good, play your position, and be part of a winning team, right? Just because you're not part of the starting five, you could be number six, seven, or eight off the bench. and y'all win that championship, your ring is just as gold, silver, platinum, or whatever they make championship rings out of as everybody else's. And I love Ronnie DeVoe for that, because he...at least in our source text of the biopic, had no ego about that. He was just like, yo, let's just do what's best for the group.

If happy to be here was a person.

This is all I'm saying.

And Ronnie DeVoe got fans. He got fans. And I know I'm not the only one out there. You are not. There are plenty of people who team Ronnie all day.

All day? All day. And I know he was one of the original Nepo babies of music. Shout out to Uncle Brooke. I was going to say, explain that. So that's how he found his way into the group, right? Because Brooke was doing the choreography and stuff like that. And he was just like, yeah, I work with y'all, but you got to put my nephew in the group. Yeah. Not mad at it.

And here comes happy Ronnie.

What? Tell me I'm wrong.

Listen, you can't have Ronnie, Bobby, Ricky, and Mike without Ronnie.

He leads it all along. That's right. He leads it all off. So I'm just saying there's a place for everybody on the team, right? And in corporate environments, from the CEO down to the people in the mailroom, to the people who clean the office overnight. There are ways to lead. Everybody has a role to play and everybody doing their part, makes the great, great. So let me give a shout out to the members of New Edition one more time for inspiring today's top 10. We have Johnny Gill Jr., Ralph Edward Tresvant, Michael Lamont Bivens, Mr. Ricardo Bell. Robert Barrisfield Brown Sr. I wish he had called himself the first, but that's neither her nor there. And my favorite. We'll add that to the monikers. Ronald Boyd DeVoe Jr. Thank you, New Edition, for your service and for the music, for the soundtrack of my youth, and for inspiring today's top 10 leadership lessons from New Edition. How'd I do?

Thank you. That was excellent.

You're welcome. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How do we do, y'all? You let us know. I just hurt my back. I don't know.

That's a good way to go out.

It is. But that concludes today's episode of The Just Us with Kere and Liz podcast.

All right. Hey, stay tuned for our next episode.

All right. We'll see you guys next time.