Shownotes
What can Harrie Schoots' journey in the textile industry teach us about the evolving nature of craftsmanship, the impact of e-commerce, and the importance of self-sufficiency?
Harrie Schoots brings decades of experience and insight into the textile industry, highlighting craftsmanship's technical complexities and essential role.
Growing up in a generation that valued hard work and humility, Harrie navigated the industry’s shift due to e-commerce and the aging workforce. In this episode, he emphasizes the significance of attracting younger talent and the contributions of educational institutions and even draws connections between the art of textile production and making sourdough bread. This conversation sheds light on perseverance, adaptability, and the push for innovation in a traditional industry.
Highlights:
- Navigating Industry Shifts: Harrie Schoots discusses the significant impacts of e-commerce and technological advancements on the textile industry, stressing the need for technical and transferable skills to stay relevant.
- Generational Transition: Addressing the challenge of an aging workforce, Harrie underscores the importance of drawing younger generations into textile craftsmanship through innovative internship programs and educational support.
- Craftsmanship and Humility: Learn from Harrie’s experiences growing up in an era that prized practical goals and humility and how these values continue to influence his approach to industry challenges.
- Supporting the Industry: Discover how organizations such as NC State College of Textiles and AATCC offer scholarships and collaborate with educational institutions to rejuvenate the textile sector and fill critical skill gaps.
- The Sourdough Connection: Delve into the intriguing parallels Harrie draws between the science of making sourdough bread and the technical processes in textile production, emphasizing the importance of self-sufficiency and practical skills.
- Responding to Crisis: Hear about the efforts made by factories to produce essential items like masks and surgical gowns during the shutdown, and the subsequent challenges posed by cheaper alternatives from abroad.
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Transcripts
Welcome to Blue Collar B's, a podcast that busts the popular myth that we can't find good people, highlighting how the different generations of today, the boomers, Gen X, millennials and Gen Z, are redefining work so that the industrial revolution that started in the US stays in the US. The Blue Collar B's podcast helps blue collar business owners like you build a business that'll thrive for decades to come by turning that blue collar B's into some blue collar business solutions.
Brad Herda [:In this episode, you're going to learn about belly button to belly button recruiting. Five years. Don't wait till it's too late. Textiles are still an export industry here in the US, and working with your hands is rewarding.
Steven Doyle [:Our guest today is Harry Scotes, the youngest of a last generation of people bringing color into our world through textiles. We hope you enjoy the show. Welcome back, everyone, to this episode of the Blue Collar B's podcast with my host, Brad Hurda. How you doing, my friend?
Brad Herda [:I am wonderful, Steve, you finally remembered to put the name of the show in the introduction after getting to do it a couple episodes ago. So thank you for remembering Friday.
Steven Doyle [:I've had some water. Let's go.
Brad Herda [:Are you sure? Only water. Are you sure?
Steven Doyle [:You know, I mean, it is Friday. It is drink 30. So let's go.
Brad Herda [:All right, perfect. Perfect. So, as we discussed previously, uh, you've got some home repairs that you're working on this, this weekend? Uh, yeah. Around the house, yeah.
Steven Doyle [:A little fascia and soffit repair. Gotta. Gotta fix a bay window that's sagging from the previous owners, you know, so just a little. Couple little things. Nothing.
Brad Herda [:No big deal. No big deal. Power tools, some swearing, some new words. It'll be great.
Steven Doyle [:I mean, yeah, we do, we do. My daughters have learned that I have a whole new vernacular when I'm working on construction projects.
Brad Herda [:Here's the key. Are they going to help you or not?
Steven Doyle [:Oh, gosh, no. Now, when I'm laying flooring, they. They have to. But not. Not what I'm doing.
Brad Herda [:Manly things, is that what you're trying to say?
Steven Doyle [:No, no. They will. They will run the saws, they will run the drills. They actually love doing that. But not when I'm working on the ladders by myself. And there's. There's a high probability that things are going to go flying and I will take responsibility for myself and no one else around me. So move out of.
Brad Herda [:Fair enough.
Steven Doyle [:Just better that way.
Brad Herda [:Fair enough.
Steven Doyle [:And you, you've got a couple things that you're you're working on at your house?
Brad Herda [:Yeah, there's some cabinetry. I'm making some drawers. I got to do some painting and just different things. I have a July 4 deadline when this airs. You're going to say July 4? That's six months away. No, it was six months ago, probably I.
Steven Doyle [:Right, right. So that's awesome. So we have an awesome guest today, Brad, who do we have?
Brad Herda [:We have a gentleman that got introduced to. I forget exactly who introduced us, but it was. Had a great conversation. So, Harry scotes. I believe I got that correct. Ryan's with goats. First generation american dutch heritage gentleman who is in the great state of Tennessee with his wife and daughter. He is the last.
Brad Herda [:He is the youngest of the last generation in the textile world of what he does from chemistry. And he's been blessed to go around the country through hundreds of mills and factories to help them with their process on making yarn, microfibers, fabrics, all the things we consume in our clothing, in our furniture, everywhere. He's been involved and has done it. And he is currently the. He was the president of the American association of Textile Chemists and Colorists from 20 to 2021. That's a mouthful, man. And past president until 2024. So this guy has all the knowledge in the textile industry that nobody knows about and that nobody's learning about, and that's why I wanted to get him on the show.
Brad Herda [:So, Harry, thank you for being here to share your knowledge and wisdom of the textile industry and a blue collar space that people don't think of at all. So we appreciate you being here.
Harrie Schoots [:Yeah, it's my pleasure. Thank you for having me on.
Steven Doyle [:So, Harry, what led you down this career path? Wow.
Harrie Schoots [:Let's start. Yeah. That is. That is part of the. The joy of being in textiles in the United States is. Is that I define it as. You can't really explain to your neighbor what you do, right? You can't, and you're in. You're.
Harrie Schoots [:In my world, that is a little different depending on where you live in the United States, but in my. In my life, that is a perfect description of how. What. What it's like to live next to a textile professional. But my dad worked. He actually immigrated here to work on a project that was kind of in textiles. It's called nonwoven's space. And so he helped invent the handy wipe, this little blue and white rag that many of us have used to.
Brad Herda [:I'm serious.
Harrie Schoots [:Yeah. So that was.
Brad Herda [:You're tied to that. You helped your family, helped invent the handy wipes.
Harrie Schoots [:When anyone makes anything, there's a lot of people involved, right? But he. He apparently was, was involved in that. Also. Other products, like the first insert to pampers, that was the super absorbent non woven. Again, and that helps a lot of people, right. But you never know who got it to you. And that describes basically what I am, right. Is I'm somewhere in the back doing something for someone to make something better.
Harrie Schoots [:And so that nonwoven industry was a big deal in the seventies and eighties. It started becoming popular. Those products are still made in the US, and there's plenty of jobs in that space. But like any other kid, they say they're not going to do what their parents do if they're not in the trades, right? If they're in the trades, they say, I want to do what my dad does. But in my case, I was like, I want to do something else. But of course, I end up at NC State, where he ended up working, and I ended up there. And there was a college of textiles, and I transferred in from the northeast when he moved. And there I was getting a pitch to become a textile chemist, a bachelor's degree in textile chemistry.
Harrie Schoots [:And it is actually very much a trade. That degree, that school still, the Wilson College of Textiles, it still produces people who are able to work with their hands in labs, in factories pretty much on day one. That's the place where maybe I have this. This passion for figuring out how to get people to work, you know, to be interested to work in this industry, because I did it and I loved it. I love it. And so, yeah, I just got that degree, Steven, and ended up, because NAFTA had just been signed the year before. I still had 40 interviews on campus with Die houses. Right.
Harrie Schoots [:Do you even know a dye house? Right. I had 40 interviews. Wow. And on the last one, I took the advice that they all wrote down, which was, he's great if he just cut his hair. Right? Back when people still wrote those things on your application, you know? Yep. And I had long hair. I was like, braveheart, you know, this was back in those days, mid nineties. It was the thing to have one, so it was also pretty stupid.
Harrie Schoots [:And so I cut my hair and I got the next job interview. So there you are. I worked my whole life in the industry one way or the other.
Brad Herda [:Awesome. So Steve didn't ask you the question, so I'll ask it.
Steven Doyle [:I did forget you did.
Brad Herda [:So, Harry, what? You kind of alluded to it with NAfta. You gave us kind of a little historical reference there. So what generation are you part of, or do you feel you belong with?
Harrie Schoots [:I am. My understanding is I am generation xdem, right? So I am that generation that grew up just wanting to be able to work enough to pay our bills, right? Our parents were the parents that just barely survived. Right? They made it. They built our. Our lives, and we end up. At least I feel there was a sense of humility in our. In our goals, right? In. I had.
Harrie Schoots [:My goal was just to be a, you know, to not go to jail and pay my bills, right. These were my goals. Take care of my mom. I'll never forget, even at that age, I thought, well, I'm gonna have to take care of my mom when this is all. When she's done, she's not saving any money. Right? So. And I did. In the end.
Harrie Schoots [:I did.
Brad Herda [:Good for you.
Steven Doyle [:Yeah.
Brad Herda [:Did you go to jail?
Harrie Schoots [:No. Oh, man.
Brad Herda [:So we can't even ask that story.
Harrie Schoots [:Too big to get in the back of the police car. I'm six five, so that I've seen cops enough to know I don't want to do anything wrong.
Brad Herda [:So the textile world, right? So you brought up some very interesting things about this non woven textile world that exists, and some of the things are going on. Talk to us a little bit about the woven textile industry, right? So whether it's the cotton t shirts or the carhartt shirt that you're wearing or, you know, the. The fabrics that are going on to our furniture, talk to us about that. And the. The dyeing and the chemistry and all the cool, all the things that have to happen for us to. It's amazing. It's freaking amazing how you go from a plant to wearing this product.
Harrie Schoots [:Yeah, it is. It is amazing. And I. I think what people don't really know is that this whole industry is very long. They call it a value chain, a supply chain. It goes all the way from people growing cotton on one hand or making polyester resin plastic to making yarn and then making fabric knit or woven, and then making a cut and sewn garment, and then. And then, you know, selling those things. And I can tell you right now that there is a tremendous art and science in every part of those steps.
Harrie Schoots [:And I can also tell you that every person who works in each one of those steps says, without me, none of this will work. They will. And I can tell you the story. It's great. I mean, every single part will say, we are the most important. I mean, in serious conversation, you. It's almost happy hour, and at happy hour. That conversation is best because it takes quite a bit of convincing, I think, that the staple yarn guy is going to tell you that the dyer is not as important as what kind of yarn is in this, what kind of fiber is in this yarn.
Harrie Schoots [:Right? And so another thing people don't realize is that there are many, many hands that hold, pull the material that is making its way to the store. And, you know, there, none of them, usually, they don't own each other. They can't tell each other what to do. They have to work together in tandem when they do own each other, that's called a vertical factory. So there are some people that try to make a better product, lower priced product, by owning the entire process, for instance. It's very rare for brands to do that. Brands actually just more like buying the product. Some of them make an effort to be involved downstream, as they call it.
Harrie Schoots [:But basically, you have jobs for people that weaving is done on a loom. And so there are looms spread out across this country, United States, and across the world. 60% of all fabric is. Is woven, probably because more fabric is needed, because most of those, most pants are made woven, and then knit goods are more for the tops and the t shirts and these type of things. So a slightly higher quality, more difficult thing to make. They cost a little bit more, and they take a little bit more effort to get to your t shirt level. But basically, knits and wovens make up all of the clothes that we have. And there are half a million people in the United States working now to make those things, especially for the us government buyers, because of the barium, they have to buy american made product.
Harrie Schoots [:And so that's why we still make about 10% of the world's textiles in the US. And we still have quite a bit of export of product, too. People think that that's gone away, but no, we do export. I think it's in the range of $26 billion worth of textiles outside of this country.
Steven Doyle [:Wow.
Harrie Schoots [:And that's because we make a lot of functional fabrics, functional textiles and laminated products that have value with highly skilled workers in this country still. And so a lot of people don't realize the level of technology there is in making this. Now, this is not Norma Ray, I don't know what generation we're watching tv here on, but, you know, there are movies we've watched about the textile industry. They're almost always bad, right? They're almost always about some terrible manager who's, you know, beating up his employees. And there was a time where that was the case. And so this industry is highly technical and transferable in many jobs. You could work in this place, whether it be in a distribution center, because we do receive a lot of garments from outside of this country. And so there's an entire industry of just managing these distribution centers.
Harrie Schoots [:Think about Amazon. They have a crew of folks that are trying to build private label garments, and those garments will go to distribution centers. All need to have people running them. Great jobs, actually. And e commerce, as we know, has changed our whole industry.
Brad Herda [:So, Harry, as you go through that whole value chain and that vertical integration back in the industrial age, large factories want to be vertically integrated. That's how Steve and I methadore through some of that, where they had their own, we had our own heat treat, we had our own things. We did our own forgings, we did our own castings. And that all went away because of the expense of being experts at all. Those steps became very, very difficult from a budgetary perspective, as you see that diversification happening, what, when you go on all these various companies, what are you seeing in the demographics of the staff members? Are you seeing that Boomer is just hanging on till the very end because they can't get anybody in to come and work? Or are you seeing younger people being involved in the craftsmanship and in the technical aspects of what's going on?
Harrie Schoots [:That's really the part that I'm trying to help. Right. I'm not responsible for getting people jobs, but I help them do get jobs. And I can tell you that we have the industry. I say we. I think I can do that. Now.
Brad Herda [:It's the three of us and our tens of listeners.
Harrie Schoots [:It's all good, Harry, I think. And there are, by the way, to my disclaimer is there's a lot of people who do all this better than me. So it's a very important fact. What I have learned also is that anyone in the textile industry that's been long enough will always start by saying, I'm not sure. They'll always say they don't know. And the older the person is in experience, the more they say that. And of course, that's because there's a million ways to do everything in this industry, and we're using products that are the best option out of many poor solutions. That's the technology.
Harrie Schoots [:This is just the best choice we have right now. Right. And so it's not hard to innovate. But to get back to your point, I would say we have a majority of workers now who are very good, and plants are running because of them that are five years from retirement. Absolutely. And by the way, many could retire today based just on their ability to do so. And so five years or less means people are starting to freak out. I'm going to use that word because for many years, people have just gotten through NAFTA.
Harrie Schoots [:They dealt with importing and dealing with losing business and surviving for so long that margins were tight and they just kept going with the crew that they had. And now they're established. Anyone who's still running now that was open in the nineties is doing, I would call it, a good job. And anyone who's adapted to the needs of the military buyers, for instance, the us army, needs things, and people have adapted and been able to get them what they want, then they get the margin and revenue they need. What's happened is now people are okay, now I need people, right. They say, now I have to hire someone. And the question is, well, how do you interest someone in a job in a factory in America today when they have their cell phones and, I mean, Lord knows what interests anyone at that age. I am also have no idea.
Harrie Schoots [:I have a 16 year old daughter. I can't tell you what interests her. I mean, I wouldn't be able to tell you. I could give you a guess. And so I. Yeah, she doesn't have one because I'm a real parent. Yes. Okay.
Harrie Schoots [:Yes. Yeah. My wife gets credit for that if she ever watches this. So. Yes. Yeah, and that's a big deal. But she doesn't have a phone and all that, so I'm doing the best I can on that level, but, yes, so, so attention spans are down when you make stuff with your hands, though. I just believe that there's a group of people still alive today that want to be able to make something with their hands and feel good about it and get a good paycheck and know they're going to have this job next year.
Harrie Schoots [:And so there are plenty of those, I believe, in the industry. It's just getting the right people to those jobs. And so I would say, and, you know, there is a story I saw, I heard recently from a, a factory in Brooklyn, Ohio, if you know where that is, maybe a few pennies. But I think, you know, this is. There was a. I was at a Miami show at a group called the American Apparels Producers Network. I hope I said all that right. AAPN, they are the western hemisphere provider, textile providers that have managed to connect because of AAPN's efforts.
Harrie Schoots [:And so they had a fireside chat about, how do we get people to work for us just a month ago or two? And the CEO and founder of MMI Textiles, which is a supplier, webbing and narrow fabrics and belting and things that you have, military stuff. There's some camouflage printing, I think, that they do on wovens. And the CEO, Amy Bercher, said they started going to the high school nearby because they're the only textile factory in that area, by the way. And so they went to the high schools. They made a way for the summer internship where those kids would work alongside these employees who are brave enough to say, I'm going to retire in five years. I'm excited. I love that, by the way. Being in an environment where you're so good at what you do that you boast about when you're going to quit, white collar workers can't do that.
Harrie Schoots [:We would wish we could. Right? I used to tell people, you know, I'm getting really good at baking. I'm going to start a bakery. Every time it was bad. Right? Anything. Oh, shut up, Harry. Right. I would hear, because I felt secure in my job.
Harrie Schoots [:I could speak like that.
Brad Herda [:We're going to get to the bakery. Don't worry about it.
Steven Doyle [:Yeah.
Harrie Schoots [:People who can work in a textile factory and are you important, boy, they can say whatever they want. We just would just say, thank you. Can I have another? So anyways, these kids spent a few years in their summers at the high school, and she said they were all excited about maybe because of this, in my resume, I'll be able to go to South Dakota and work in a blue collar job up there that they've heard about. That's exciting. An opportunity. And, of course, the big secret that no one shares is that when you come out of a $200,000 college degree, you're making $40,000. There's people who do that. 40, 45, and they are going to make 80,000 without debt or more.
Harrie Schoots [:Maybe the great part to the story, though, jumping to the end, is that that summer that they graduated high school, they came back to MMI textiles and said, I'd like to sign on as a full time employee. And that was just this huge moment where I'm listening to this conversation going, wow. That's all it really took, was it? It was just to get these kids to realize they thought they were those kids. They felt good about doing a good job with their hands being. And I think that was the experience I had. I, thankfully, was thrown into a job, my first job was. The guy was like, I'll make you the best dyer in the world, but you're going to have to do every single job in this factory first. And so I come out of college thinking, hey, I'm something, right? Which is, of course, the stupidest thing anyone coming out of college thinks.
Harrie Schoots [:And, you know, you just. No one tells you anything, right? They just let you know it. Whatever, kid. And so there I was, doing every job. Third chef, by the way. Why not, right?
Steven Doyle [:Yep.
Brad Herda [:And, yeah, you got an extra $0.20 an hour.
Harrie Schoots [:Two weeks. Yeah, that's right. That's why I found out. That's why everyone was there. $0.20 an hour. And so I did every job for two weeks, right? I was the guy putting spacers between the yarn packages on the big tubes, right? I did the moving around the buggies, right? For two weeks. I. And that was, to me, it built this thing in me that I loved it.
Harrie Schoots [:I love doing it. Well, I'm just that kind of person. And now I'm a chemist, a textile chemist, who helps people get business at brands and let the brand understand a particular way. If they use this kind of cotton, then maybe they'll have these benefits. I do that now, but it's always been important that I remember how one of my benefits in my work is that I know what it takes to do these jobs, that these people, when they have to run a trial, I show up and they see I don't show up with a tie on, right? That was always the biggest. I remember. People show up with a tie, they're not going to work, Harry. Right.
Harrie Schoots [:That was. And so that's. That's. I heard that story about those kids saying that they. They like to stay, and it's a real victory, right, for that company. And I thought, this just has to be a bigger. There needs to be this platform between the textile companies, who all have to also be differentiated, and they need their own business. They need to be successful compared to the others.
Harrie Schoots [:So it's not always every day that they all sit together and, hey, how do we figure this out on a national basis, right?
Brad Herda [:So, Harry, how so you got the company outside Cleveland that went and said, hey, um, we're going to go to our local high schools. Are you seeing others of those remaining factories here kind of going about that same path? Are you able to. Are you able to take that skill and knowledge that you've learned by watching them into your other clients and say, hey, guys, this is how this works. Um, you. Because there isn't because it's such a niche industry, and nobody's watching out for it. Right. The.
Harrie Schoots [:There's a few, you know, during the shutdown, remember hearing about the senators said, we need to be able to make masks. We need to be able to make gowns, surgical gowns. There were some very strong players in that we had. You know, I love seeing actual government workers do their job right, which is to help the people that pay their salary do their job. And I think during the shutdown, we saw that in, like, South Carolina. North Carolina. There were some. I don't, unfortunately, don't remember their names, but they spoke well on behalf of the industry.
Harrie Schoots [:They made sure a few things could be done, and raw material came to these factories, and everyone. A lot of people made products that we don't make even now. So two years later, it's gone. It's gone because I can buy this now for $0.26 from China, this map. So I would say part of the answer to your question, Brad, is I don't know the answer. That's, again, my textile expert answer. The second thing is there are organizations that are trying to do this, obviously, NC State College of Textiles, which is the biggest one in the world. They have a leadership state, I think, and they've done some things working with a college that is a two year school in Gaston County, North Carolina, just west of Charlotte.
Harrie Schoots [:They're cooperating together to help people go through a program there at lower cost. I'm trying to. They're gonna. They're gonna kill me. I'm.
Brad Herda [:It's all good. That's all good.
Harrie Schoots [:That's okay.
Brad Herda [:They could be. They can be one of our guests. When you get them to come, when you get them to listen, you can have them come on. Be on the show.
Harrie Schoots [:So there are people like that doing. And then we have our associations, like the association AATCC, which is that long association. It's 102 years old. We have our efforts where we give scholarships to students. We certainly get their attention by that. We do all sorts of. There's a university layer of students being taught merchandising and apparel design and things like that. And so they're kind of.
Harrie Schoots [:There's so many jobs. There's, like, hundreds of categories in this industry, and do. We do our best to interact with them.
Brad Herda [:Okay, so let's. Let's get to the important part. Let's get to the perfect sourdough.
Harrie Schoots [:The perfect. The perfect what?
Brad Herda [:The sourdough. The perfect sourdough.
Harrie Schoots [:Sourdough. I thought you said salary. I'm like, money. Great. Everyone wants to talk about money.
Brad Herda [:The perfect sourdough. In our conversation, we had that, right? I got this bakery. I want to go to the baker. I'll have a bakery on my bakery. We talked a little bit about the sourdough. Put it in your bio as well, about the perfect sourdough. So let's talk about the legacy of the sourdough, shall we?
Harrie Schoots [:Okay. And I'll even connect it to textiles.
Brad Herda [:Absolutely.
Harrie Schoots [:You will.
Brad Herda [:I know you will. Because this is.
Harrie Schoots [:This is why textiles is an art, is really an art, while it is a science. We're doing things like telling you what color it is with a number. So we've learned to tell stories, because that's crazy to do that, but we do it, you know, that's part of what a ATCC does. They have the standard book. We're the ones that tell you how long the color will last in the sun and those type of tests. Right? So everyone that works in the field that I do, who has stayed in it, has some art that they perform on the side. It's really true. And I started noticing that because of social media, I can see everyone, what they do.
Harrie Schoots [:We got woodworkers, people building tables. I'm, like, looking. I'm like, this is a guy I know from school. He works in the industry, and he was a president of cord cutage business. And I said, you know how to make a table? And then there's people with orchards of fruit, and then I bake. Right? So I describe it as the difference between a textile chemist and a chemical engineer. So everyone knows that name. Chemical engineer is what you're told.
Harrie Schoots [:You make the most money. It's the best job. Right? I. I can tell you, I tried that. I wasn't doing well, let's put it that way, because chemical engineers are absolute. There's no art. It is science. It's exactness.
Harrie Schoots [:It's people who build a house. You can't have people who have. Well, a little bit. What does it matter? In textiles, we do. It's a little bit. It's okay.
Brad Herda [:It'll be fine.
Harrie Schoots [:When you hire a plumber and you're a chemical engineer, you open the door and you say, bathroom's right here. You have a little pen, paper, and you've watched the plumber the whole time. Right? He's sitting there doing his thing, and the chemical engineer is basically saying, I can do that next time. I don't have to hire him. I'm going to do it myself. And we've all seen those after videos?
Brad Herda [:There's shit everywhere.
Harrie Schoots [:There's a science diploma and so. But the textile chemists open the door and they tell them this is where the bathroom is. I'm going back to finish making dinner, right? So they're cook. I'm going to finish making my sourdough. And when I tell you about sourdough, I think someday everyone needs to be able to make food, right. This is a thought of my mind. Everyone sees, you know, not, not being crazy, you know, I don't, I don't think if you have like a store of 90 days of food, then you're going to die. I'm 91.
Harrie Schoots [:Right. So I'm not, I'm not, I'm not talking about, but I'm talking about the comfort stuff that we're all forgetting. Everyone's talking about like having the.
Brad Herda [:We're not on a doomsday. We're not talking doomsday preppers.
Harrie Schoots [:Right, exactly. Because, hey, they're great, right? Just like the guy with the big truck and the big wheels in Houston. We all make fun of it until he saves you from your house. I don't make fun of guys with big trucks and big wheels anymore. I don't because I've lived through, I used to live in southeast Houston and that was terrible, right? The guy with the truck just driving by, you know, how you doing? He's going to McDonald's, you know, and I can't leave my house for three days. So the sourdough thing, I thought, well, when things go south, people can have generators, you can have water, you can, you can learn all sorts of things that are helpful to your neighbors, which I think is important. We need to not be so, you know, useless in the suburbs, right. We need to be useful when it comes to being comfortable or eating and all this.
Harrie Schoots [:And so I thought, well, when things go south, I will be the guy where people come for bread, right, in my neighborhood. And maybe I'll survive because of it. Because you got to have bread tomorrow, too. So just leave my house alone. Okay. All right. So do you like where that's going?
Brad Herda [:So the sourdough is your survival tactic.
Harrie Schoots [:You know why? Because I figured out you can buy the wheat berries. So you can buy shelf stable wheat berries, not ground flour, which we think of when we make bread. But I buy the wheat berries and I grind them myself. I bought a grinder. And so wheat berries on the shelf last forever. And, you know, they've taken wheat out of tombs. You know, they're 4000 years old season. They've made bread out of it, I guess, and it's, I don't want to be the person to try that, but I think six months, you know, a year, and it's no problem at all.
Harrie Schoots [:And so I've started making a sourdough starter with freshly ground wheat berries, which, by the way, include enzymes which help you digest it. And that's part of why our flour on the shelf does not have that. They've taken it out. You know why? And this, by the way, this is, every industry has this answer. They've taken out the oil, they've taken out, like the bran, I forget all the fancy words, but the enzymes, all the things that are not shelf stable, they'll spoil. They've left just the starch or whatever, right? And they took those out because they needed a way to store all this stuff in the silos because we're having less and less farms, right? So we have bigger and bigger silos when there's fewer farmers. And well, what do we, what can we do to keep the rats from eating this flower? How do we make flour inedible to a rat? Well, you take everything out of it, right? So everything of the, here we are, we're eating it.
Brad Herda [:The rats won't eat it, but we'll eat it.
Harrie Schoots [:And that's, that's the whole fast food industry. I mean, I'm sure there's a story for every food type, right, that we make. McDonald's story was, how do we keep these ice creams from melting? That was the number one complaint. And some guy in the corner who's like me, textile chemist, said, well, we can just lower the t sub g of the, of the ice cream, the glass transition temperature. And how do you do that? He asked and he goes, well, you just put a polymer in there, you know, and you know, well, what polymer is available? Well, CNC, you know, carboxyl methylcellulose. Where does that come from? It comes from trees, right? It's wood. So anyways, that's how they fix that problem so it doesn't melt on your fingers anymore. But in sourdough, you, you grind these, these wheat berries and they don't smell good.
Harrie Schoots [:Nothing's normal when you do it yourself, okay? And that, I think that's a tagline for anybody in the trades. Nothing's normal, right. When you have to do it yourself, there's no easy button to press. And that's the same with bread. And so when you make it from scratch, you go through this smells like swamp. It doesn't smell good. Like 14 days. You got to feed it, throw it out, put it in the next one with the new stuff, and it keeps beating.
Harrie Schoots [:And there's this battle between bad bugs and good bugs. It's like Star wars right there in your little jar. And. And eventually, the good bugs always win. It's. It is like a movie, right? I'm like, how do you know the good bugs are winning?
Brad Herda [:It's like a Disney. It's like a Disney production. The good guy always wins, right?
Harrie Schoots [:In textiles, we have standards, right? Yeah. Making sourdough bread on your shelf, there's no standards. There's just YouTube. Right? So. And I watched that YouTube person, like, for a week. My wife can attest to this. And I wrote every word they said. And 14 days later, the good bugs won and doesn't smell like a swamp anymore.
Harrie Schoots [:And I used that to make. To make bread.
Steven Doyle [:Nice.
Brad Herda [:That's awesome.
Steven Doyle [:That's fantastic.
Harrie Schoots [:Yeast. And so that's. I mean, that story goes all the way back to passover, right? And the feast of unleavened bread. That's. No, they didn't have time. It says, put your bread bowls on your back and get out of there in Egypt. And that's what they did. And you can make that, too.
Harrie Schoots [:And that's like tortillas.
Brad Herda [:So back to the textile world. Indeed. When we have young adults that might be in parts of the country where there are opportunities, or even some of the factory folks that might be listening here and there from your own network, how do they get ahold of you? How do they find you? How do. How do we get the last of your kind involved in their business and your uniqueness and wisdom? Because it's important. And you are a guy that's willing to share and support and educate, and I can't stress enough that people need to find you.
Harrie Schoots [:Yeah. You know, I was thinking about that earlier today is like, what, after this call, you know, after this. This podcast? Well, yeah. What if somebody actually is listening, right?
Brad Herda [:There's tens of people that listen all the time. It's all good.
Harrie Schoots [:Tons of people. So. And I'll share this with my network. And so, yes, a lot of people will see it. And I would say, if my name is unique, there is no one on this earth who has my name. Exactly. I've looked it up. So you can search this and find me on LinkedIn, which is a professional networking site.
Harrie Schoots [:And I think anyone who wants to have a professional life, whether you're in a trade or in an office, should have a LinkedIn account. You'll find me, because I get. I'm the only one. There's one guy with a y, Harry. He's in Holland. He owns a bunch of banks. And I just linked in with him. I said, we should be friends.
Harrie Schoots [:He goes, yeah, probably. If you knew dutch people, by the way, you know, that that's a miracle that that happened, because they're like, totally spicoli. They're like, yeah, whatever. You know, they could meet you in Mongolia, and the two dutch people would be like, whatever, right? That's. That's the. I'm an american, so I don't. I don't. I get excited.
Harrie Schoots [:Right? They don't get excited. It's just very, very wrong. But I get excited when someone writes me, asking, hey, how do you help me with a job? So if you write me, that's my name on Instagram as well. And I would say if somebody would find aatcc.org o r G. That is the website for the professional association that I'm on the board of directors, I would be. They can say, I'm sending this letter to Harry. I saw him on a podcast. Can you forward me to him? They will forward to me that email.
Harrie Schoots [:I also have an email, Harry. Textilesmail.com dot. That was a huge victory, by the way, because, you know, Gmail wants you to have numbers in your name for some reason.
Brad Herda [:Right?
Harrie Schoots [:And I just fought all day. I spent like, three, 3 hours. Just. Nope, I don't know. I'm not Harry one. Cause I know there's not Harry. Two, I know you don't need a number. I know it.
Harrie Schoots [:And so I'm just giving you your whole audience to hack. It's totally made up. There's nobody else with my name. There's no need for Harry. 675. It just doesn't need it. So that's awesome. Yeah.
Harrie Schoots [:Just keep fighting. When you get that, you make the email yours, not theirs. Right?
Steven Doyle [:Right.
Brad Herda [:I appreciate that, Harry, so much. Thank you for sharing your stories, your wisdom, and also just the fact that you care so much about what you do and the passion that you do. The wisdom has shined, has shown through tremendously. So thank you very much for your generosity and your time today.
Harrie Schoots [:Yeah. And I hope. I hope that folks find out where you are, too, from my side and connect and. And I think that'll happen when we get the links and the. And all those things will be able to see where all those connections are. And I do appreciate this. This has been fun. I like it.
Harrie Schoots [:It's cool. And, you know, for those that watch this at like 08:00 a.m. on a Wednesday, I'm sorry, because it's Friday right now. 05:00 I'm ready. And so, yep, it is.
Brad Herda [:It is time to go. So thank you very much.
Harrie Schoots [:All right. Thank you.
Brad Herda [:Thank you for listening to blue collar B's, brought to you by vision, Ford Business solutions and professional business coaching, Inc. If you'd like to learn more on today's topic, just reach out to Steve Doyle or myself, Brad Hurta. Please, like share rate and review this show as feedback is the only way we can get better. Let's keep blue collar businesses strong for generations to come. And.