Dr. Kelsy Vick closes out the Goalchella Podcast Festival with self-selected highlights from expert interviews recorded from November through early February, created around common New Year’s goals for women. She revisits key moments from: Dr. Sam Moore on female physiology, menstrual-cycle awareness, resilience in training, energy availability, and the importance of carbohydrates and progressive strength training; Dr. Emily Hilz on the dopamine reward system, estrogen sensitivity across the menstrual cycle, and how hormonal states can influence reward seeking and motivation, plus an overview of endocrine disrupting chemicals (including bisphenols, phthalates, PFAAS, parabens, and flame retardants), where they’re found, and why “safe” levels are complicated by sensitive developmental windows and mixture effects; Dr. Lisa Neff on how relationship quality impacts mental and physical health, including research linking social relationship quality to mortality risk and evidence that hostile couple communication slows wound healing, and how everyday stressors spill over into relationships by reducing connection, increasing negativity and blame, worsening conflict communication, and undermining support; Katie (a certified credit counselor and Bankrate writer) on women-centered approaches to money, breaking habits like impulse shopping and carrying credit card balances, separating emotions from money, and using travel credit cards and welcome bonuses responsibly to reduce travel costs; and Aaron (a certified habit coach) on outcome vs process vs identity goals, the behavior science of cues, ability/self-efficacy, and reward, and designing environments to support habit formation. She thanks listeners for supporting the series, invites topic and guest requests, and transitions back to regular episodes of Wellness Fix the Pod.

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We're wrapping up our Coachella Podcast Festival and as sad

2

as I am that it's ending, I am so, so

happy that I was finally able to share

3

all of these episodes with you guys.

4

So let's go through some of my own

self-selected highlights for each of

5

our expert guests that were a part

of this wonderful podcast festival.

6

Welcome back to Wellness Fix the Pod.

7

I'm your host, Dr.

8

Kelsey Vic, a board certified orthopedic

doctor, physical therapy, and a

9

pelvic floor physical therapist and.

10

I had majority of these conversations

back from, I'd say, November to

11

early February, and I knew that I

wanted to have this podcast festival.

12

I knew that I wanted it to focus on

different categories that a lot of us

13

girls have goals on in the New Years.

14

So I have just slowly been reaching out

to different researchers and experts

15

in certain categories and interviewing

them and having these conversations.

16

As nerve wracking as it is going into

these conversations, and as much as I

17

want to have a wonderful conversation and

be a wonderful host to highlight these

18

guest experts, I do get so, so nervous.

19

But after each and every conversation, I

am riding on such a high, I learn so much.

20

I love learning.

21

I love being able to share what

I'm learning from these guest

22

experts with all of you guys.

23

And so it was so exciting for me to have

these conversations and then really.

24

Be able to hopefully deliver them to you

guys in such a wonderful way that really

25

just highlights some of the truth behind

a lot of the goals that we have as women.

26

So I hope you guys enjoyed them.

27

I sat on some of these episodes

for like two months, probably

28

waiting to release them all together

in this podcast festival style.

29

So it was one of those things where

I was like, oh, I really wish I could

30

release them right now because it

was such a wonderful conversation

31

and I really want them to have this

information, have this education,

32

have this knowledge, and be able to

enjoy this conversation just as I did.

33

But I think, I hope that you guys enjoyed

it in the way that it was released

34

and enjoyed each of our conversations

with each of the expert guests.

35

And I think it's always fun after these

podcast festivals to sort of wrap it up

36

and take out clips that I found very.

37

Impactful in my own life or

knowledge that I didn't have before,

38

that I now have from each of our

episodes with each of our guests.

39

So that's what this episode is.

40

I also say every time to use it

as an episode to sort of guide

41

where you want to listen back, if

you happen to miss an episode or.

42

Be like, oh, you know what?

43

I actually forgot that she said that,

or I was listening to that episode

44

while also talking to my sister,

and I didn't really get to that one

45

and I really missed that segment.

46

So it's a way to have almost like

the SparkNotes, the book club

47

version of the podcast festival.

48

That way if there's anything that you

guys missed or resonated with, you can

49

maybe go back to that episode and get a

little bit of a deeper dive and deeper

50

understanding on each of those topics.

51

So our first guest we had

on the podcast was Dr.

52

Sam Moore, and I don't know if you guys

could tell during the episode, but.

53

We just clicked and I think this

is the episode that I resonate

54

with probably the most in sort

of my education and my expertise.

55

I'm a kinesiology major,

exercise science, so Dr.

56

Sam and I have similar backgrounds

up until the undergraduate level

57

probably, but it's not until we, we

diverge for grad school where she

58

took more of that research route.

59

I took more of the clinical route,

so I always love getting to chat

60

with exercise physiologists and

PhD researchers on the female human

61

body because it's something that.

62

I am passionate about as well and

passionate about it in the way of physical

63

health and wellbeing and exercise and

training, which is exactly what Dr.

64

Sam is the expert on.

65

So I was very grateful to have her

on, not only to share about the

66

female physiology, the female body,

how we can exercise for our female

67

bodies, but also to get her approach.

68

One of the things that really stuck

out to me from our episode together.

69

Was how involved she is in female

physiology training performance,

70

yet how adaptable and resilient

and flexible she is with her

71

own health and wellness routine.

72

So often we can get caught up in what

we should be doing without taking

73

into account our lives that are

influencing what we should be doing.

74

So I loved how she

prioritized the okayness of.

75

Giving our bodies grace and

being resilient with them.

76

No matter the stage in our cycle we're

in, no matter the life stage we're in,

77

no matter what our bodies and minds are

requiring at that point in our lives.

78

One of my favorite clips from the

episode was actually laughing about how

79

we both viewed our menstrual cycles.

80

Kelsy: And for me, a lot of it

is based on my menstrual cycle.

81

Like I, you know, the week before I

started my period in my mid to late

82

luteal phase, it's rough for me.

83

Like, we used to make so many jokes

in, in the lab at UNC, it was a

84

almost all women lab at times.

85

And, you know, we always

talked about the luteal phase.

86

Like she was one of our lab

mates that we couldn't stand.

87

And for me that meant that, you know,

I, I needed to make sure that my

88

water was really on that I was getting

some movement throughout the day.

89

There's like a four to five day block

where I just feel awful and I might get

90

one workout in that block, but getting a

little bit more movement throughout the

91

day because I know I'm not gonna have

the energy to go and do a really hard

92

training session at the end of the day.

93

It is just kind of planning and being

aware of how your body responds and

94

then understanding as you go what

things you need at different times.

95

I like how you personified a luteal phase.

96

'cause I say in my back half, especially

like you said, that week or a few days

97

before, it's like, that's not real Kelsey.

98

You know, that's fake Kelsey.

99

We just do what we can with fake

Kelsey until real Kelsey shows up

100

again and feels better after a workout.

101

That was me just last week.

102

My husband was like,

how do your workout go?

103

I was like, terrible.

104

But that was fake.

105

Kelsey, that's expected at this time.

106

Yeah, I do the same thing.

107

I'm like, well, if Ms.

108

Progesterone's here, like I'm gonna

need to set my alarm an hour later.

109

That is what I need, you know?

110

And I need a little bit more silent

time and I need, you know, to

111

not have an attitude with myself.

112

I need to give myself a

little bit more grace.

113

I probably need to give a little

bit more grace to people around me.

114

But I think like so much of

that is just tracking it, right?

115

Like.

116

Before I used to track my cycle,

I would've guessed that like the

117

worst time was during my period,

because that's what we're taught.

118

And in reality, it's actually usually

not like when you look at it from

119

like an objective recovery standpoint.

120

And so I think like the importance of

tracking it, I also, when I was kind

121

of younger in like my early twenties,

before I started learning or reading

122

about female physiology, um, I would

have these like emotional breakdowns

123

very consistently where I'd be like,

I'm 24, I've got nothing to show for it.

124

I've accomplished nothing in my life.

125

I'm an embarrassment to my family.

126

I don't even know how they

let me keep the family name.

127

Like what have I done in my life?

128

What do I have to show for

these 24 years I've been alive?

129

And then I would start my period like

six days later and I'd be like, oh.

130

I guess I have graduated college.

131

I guess I'm a good person.

132

Like I, you know, try to show up for

my friends or think of whatever it was.

133

And so like once I started to track it,

I was like, oh, that's actually not me.

134

That's not my feeling.

135

That is my luteal phase

when I'm having that.

136

And so then it became this thing of

like every time I would go to have

137

this like spiral, if I've accomplished

nothing in my life, I'd be like, no, no,

138

you're gonna revisit this in seven days.

139

And if you still feel that way, then we

can take it to the higher ups and maybe

140

talk to someone about, but like right now.

141

Just give it a week and you're

probably not gonna feel like this.

142

And it allowed me to regulate

it to a level where like, I, I

143

don't struggle with that anymore.

144

And it was just from tracking it.

145

Speaker 2: I also, of course, had

to ask her to clarify something.

146

I know a lot of us as girls struggle with.

147

Mix of fueling appropriately, training

correctly when it comes to our body

148

composition or body recomposition goals.

149

She chats about the importance of energy

availability and why we as women need

150

to be approaching fasting and carbs

and maybe a little bit of a different

151

way than what we've been told in

definitely in a different way than men.

152

Kelsy: So can you talk a little bit about

just how our bodies as women differ from

153

maybe a metabolic standpoint when it

comes to something like body composition

154

compared to the male physiology?

155

So it's the process of losing

fat and gaining muscle.

156

We call it body recomposition, and

it's quite hard to be totally honest

157

with you when you think about like

what are the physiological systems or

158

processes that are required to lose bat

mass, and then what are the systems and

159

processes required to gain muscle mass?

160

They're kind of in opposition

and so it is challenging.

161

It's challenging thing to do and that's

why sometimes looking at it through

162

too small of a lens timeline-wise can

be difficult in what we see and and

163

I think we see it play out in person,

is that female systems bodies are

164

more sensitive to low calorie intake.

165

And so looking at energy

availability and the threshold at

166

which we see hormonal dysfunction

happen because we know now that.

167

Reds relative energy deficiency in sport.

168

This mismatch of calories in and

calories expended, it can happen to

169

male and females and there's health

consequences and performance consequences.

170

But I think because of some of the kind

of prior work on the female athlete triad,

171

we really focus on the female part a bit.

172

But it can happen to both.

173

And in reality, the threshold of

energy availability that it can

174

happen at for females is much sooner.

175

And so we are more sensitive

to that low calorie intake.

176

And there's even been some really

interesting research that talks about

177

within day low carbohydrate availability.

178

And so, you know, the exercises is

always tough because I think it's

179

easy to talk about what we know

from science, but also life is hard.

180

And there are some warnings, like

usually if I don't get my training

181

in before eight 30 in the morning,

it's unlikely to happen at all.

182

But sometimes when I get up at five,

food is the last thing I want to eat.

183

And you know, I forgot to pick up my

protein shakes at the store and I don't

184

wanna have to eat a banana, or all

I have is a sourdough English muffin

185

and I'm not gonna down that before

I go ride the bike for 45 minutes.

186

And so I'll just put some

electrolytes in my water.

187

It's not ideal, but I think the

balance of science in real life.

188

So I think that's a, a big caveat, but

in the science perspective, the within

189

day low carbohydrate availability

is really negative for females in

190

a way that it doesn't affect male

physiology in quite the same way.

191

So there's some research that says

even just going like two hours without

192

carbohydrate availability, so with like

low blood sugar can be enough to start to

193

induce some of the hormonal dysfunction.

194

You know, I think when we're talking

about like what are the differences

195

metabolically, you know, not eating

enough calories and metabolic suppression

196

with females is a much bigger issue

because we don't have as much resiliency

197

to that, the, the carbohydrates.

198

So like, you know, I grew up as a kid

in a time of like a very anti carb life.

199

You know, it was like, I think it was like

the Atkins side or something like that.

200

There's like no carbs and now it's keto.

201

And we know that females respond

differently to keto than males do.

202

And you know, the

importance of carbs is huge.

203

Like, it's something like I have to

tell my husband about all the time.

204

Like even just the other day I was

going through my dick, this massive

205

headache at 2:00 PM I had to take

a second lay down on the floor.

206

I'm like, what is going on?

207

Why do I feel like this?

208

I'm like, oh my gosh, I

haven't had a carbohydrate

209

since 6:00 AM What am I doing?

210

It just sneaks up on you and you're like,

I haven't even looked at a carb today.

211

Like I, of course I'm unwell.

212

That's my fuel and my energy.

213

And I also think, like

right now, there's so much.

214

Content out there about women

specific this and female focused that.

215

And I think that it really shows

how desperate we are for information

216

because so many women have this shared

experience of like doing this thing

217

that we're taught specific, you know,

help us lose weight or gain muscle or

218

feel better and it doesn't work for us.

219

And it is because a lot of it comes

from research on male physiology.

220

And so, you know, this kind of push pull

of like, there's a lot of influencers

221

putting out content on these things and

you know, I think sometimes you're like,

222

oh, maybe we could like discern that a

little more or like add a little nuance.

223

But I really, I think it's like part

of this like bigger collective push

224

and need and desire for information.

225

The last thing I would say is, is

kind of not shying away from heavy

226

progressive strength training.

227

For the short term and the long term.

228

Speaker 2: Our next guest was Dr.

229

Emily Hills, a neuroscientist and

researcher who has studied how

230

our dopamine system is affected by

everything from hormonal contraceptives

231

to endocrine disrupting chemicals.

232

She starts off by giving us a rundown of

the dopamine system and how our dopamine

233

systems are heavily linked to estrogen

and therefore our menstrual cycles.

234

Emily: so the dopamine system

is part of the brain's reward

235

and motivational system.

236

Dopamine neurons are primarily located

in the midbrain, which is in the

237

back of our brains, and they send

projections throughout various regions

238

of the brain, including the nucleus,

accumbens, striatum, and the prefrontal

239

cortex, and dopamine does unique things.

240

In different regions of the brain.

241

So in the nucleus accumbens, it's

involved in processing primary

242

rewards, and then that information is

integrated by our prefrontal cortex,

243

which is our executive control system

to make decisions about when and how

244

we seek rewards and exert control over

how intensely we seek those rewards.

245

It's a very integrated system that

impacts pretty much everything that we

246

do, learning and memory and motivation.

247

Kelsy: One thing I have been

interested in is, of course, with

248

an audience of primarily women.

249

Are there any differences in how

the dopamine system affects the male

250

brain compared to the female brain?

251

Are there any sex differences

that you guys have seen?

252

Emily: I would say in terms of

its basic function, it does work.

253

The same way in males and females.

254

But an important sex specific effect about

dopamine is that dopamine neurons are

255

very estrogen sensitive, which means that

when they're exposed to estrogens, they

256

fire a lot more rapidly, they release more

dopamine, and that means that women are.

257

Kind of classically considered to be

more sensitive to rewarding stimuli,

258

especially during phases of our cycle

where estrogens might be higher or

259

if we're taking estrogen replacement

therapies or something like that.

260

So we do see more rewards seeking

behavior in females compared to males.

261

Kelsy: That's interesting because one

of the things that caused me to search

262

out someone like you who's researching

this kind of thing and looking into

263

hormonal effects on our dopamine

system, was my own experience, I guess

264

with my own body and my own tracking

and just noticing, especially in that

265

like early phase of my cycle, after

my period was over, I noticed, okay,

266

I'm, you know, I'm ready to go again.

267

I'm back at it.

268

Let's get, you know, I was way more

motivated, way more disciplined, way more.

269

Goal driven in that phase and I started

realizing, I was like, oh, hang on.

270

This is kind of happening cyclically.

271

So you mentioned a little bit how

estrogen and dopamine go hand in hand.

272

Explain a little bit more about

that, especially in regards to

273

like the menstrual cycle and how

different high hormone phases and

274

low hormone phases affect our ability

to be more goal-driven or be more

275

motivated or be more disciplined.

276

Emily: Sure.

277

So I study these things using

rats, and rats have what is

278

called an EST extra cycle.

279

It's very similar conceptually

to the human menstrual cycle,

280

and the main difference basically

is that rats don't menstruate.

281

They reabsorb their urine lining out

each cycle, and it only lasts four

282

or five days, which is great for a

research context because then you

283

can study things in four or five days

instead of over months and years.

284

Right.

285

But things that.

286

Are pretty well accepted, I would say

at this point in science is that the.

287

Estro cycle influences how much females

will seek out rewarding stimuli.

288

So a rat that is in a high estrogen

phase of its cycle will drink a lot more

289

alcohol, or it will emit like pleasure

calls more rapidly and intensely in

290

response to what we would call like

dopaminergic or stimulant drugs.

291

That's what.

292

Researchers use.

293

When we study reward, we use rewarding

stimuli, and the most rewarding

294

stimuli tend to be dopaminergic

drugs like amphetamine or cocaine.

295

And your cycle will impact the

way that females will seek out.

296

Those rewards, how much

they will consume them.

297

When we talk about motivation, I think

there's sort of two types of motivation.

298

It would be essentially motivation in

maybe a positive context or motivation,

299

which could be maladaptive, compulsive

reward seeking higher estrogen phases

300

could be associated with compulsive

behaviors, depending on a lot of factors.

301

Going into that.

302

Speaker 2: Her more recent research

also focuses on the effects of

303

EDCs or endocrine disrupting

chemicals on our brains and bodies.

304

I know I can get so overwhelmed by

phrases like Forever chemicals and feel so

305

discouraged from the amount of toxins in

our environment, in our Tupperware, in our

306

cookware, in our skincare, in our makeup,

which is exactly why I wanted to have Dr.

307

Emily on because I feel like having

a researcher on the podcast who is

308

immersed in this field of study and

understanding how she approaches it in

309

her own life would be very beneficial

for me, and hopefully you guys as well.

310

So Dr.

311

Emily gives us a basic overview

of what endocrine disrupting

312

chemicals are, where they're found,

and what we can do about them.

313

Emily: This is definitely where my

expertise has developed in its fullest,

314

and that would be endocrine disrupting

chemicals or EDCs, which are defined as

315

any exogenous, which means coming from

outside the body chemical that interferes

316

with any aspect of hormone action.

317

And then an important part of that is,

and results in an adverse health outcome.

318

So two main components there is it's.

319

Structurally similar to the body's

endogenous hormones, but it's

320

coming from outside of the body.

321

And then it is having an unintentional

impact on health in a negative way,

322

which is why they're different from

something like hormonal birth control,

323

which is yes, exogenous, but it's

designed to impact the endocrine

324

system purposely, and it doesn't.

325

Cause cancer.

326

I think you also asked

where do they come from?

327

Oh, yes.

328

Just there are several main classes.

329

If there's the Bisphenols,

the Phthalates, perfluorinated

330

chemicals, or PFAS, which have been

popularized as quote unquote forever.

331

Chemicals, parabens, and flame retardants.

332

Our five major classes of BDCs.

333

And then these chemicals are all either

estrogenic or antigenically active.

334

They could be anti-estrogen or like

not pro estrogen isn't really a word.

335

So they are either anti

estrogenic or androgenic or,

336

or a combination of the two.

337

And the reason that they are this way

is because they're structurally similar

338

to our body's endogenous hormones.

339

They can be found in plastics

personal care products.

340

Phthalates are used as

emulsifiers and fragrance.

341

Parabens are used in products

to increase shelf life and as

342

antimicrobials biz fennels are

used in a lot of food packaging.

343

They're also found in plastics.

344

Perfluorinated chemicals or PFAS

are non-stick chemicals, which

345

they could be found in non-stick

cookware, but they can also be found

346

in clothing and fast food wrappers.

347

Anything that's designed to be oil

slick, non-stick tends to have it.

348

Flame retardants are found in a lot

of furniture, synthetic fibers and.

349

To give that little overview real

quick, because I think it's important,

350

Speaker 2: Of course, I had to ask her if

there were safe versus unsafe levels, and

351

this is probably one of the coolest things

I learned from her this entire episode.

352

Kelsy: Are there truly like safe

or unsafe levels of EDC exposure?

353

Emily: No, that's the short answer, but.

354

Also, yes.

355

Something we've kinda been talking about

a lot in this episode is that the idea

356

of sensitive periods of development

where what is harmful at one age or

357

in one sex might not be harmful at a

different age or at a different sex,

358

but saying something that might not

be at a harmful level for me would be.

359

For a child, child, but going

to just like levels of exposure.

360

The reason that these chemicals are

legal is because based on standard

361

toxicological testing, they're not harmful

toxicologically, which means they don't

362

kill cells, but those hazard assessments

don't really look at endocrine mediad

363

outcomes, and they're designed for

like immediate outcomes, so they don't.

364

Incorporate ideas about the long-term

effects of, okay, the exposure happened

365

at this point in time and then years

and years later is when you see the

366

development of an adverse health effect.

367

That's very, that's canonical.

368

EDC is this long latency period between

exposure and harmful health impacts,

369

specifically because the latency tends

to be, you get exposed as developing

370

fetus and then you start seeing impacts.

371

Probably around puberty when you

start going through activational,

372

sex differences into adulthood.

373

So recommendations for

safe exposure levels.

374

But those recommendations are mostly

for adults and they're for like direct

375

toxicology, like toxicological outcomes.

376

So I guess the answer

is yes and no based on.

377

Our FDA health recommendations.

378

Absolutely.

379

And I'm not in a position to fully

challenge that except to say that

380

there's all this research at levels

below the doses that have been tested

381

for these chemicals that prove that

they are harmful below the levels

382

that we're told they're safe at.

383

And then another thing to think about

in that context is that all of these.

384

Chemicals, the ones that we've tested,

which is only a small number of chemicals

385

that are even available or being

produced, are being tested in isolation.

386

So they're only looking at one

chemical, but we're not exposed

387

to anything in isolation.

388

So you.

389

We do know for a fact that the chemicals

interact with each other and when they

390

do, they can have compounding effects.

391

So even if you are maybe being exposed

at a safe level to one thing, you also

392

have six other chemicals at any one time.

393

At any one product, which kind of

creates just like a physiological

394

state of exposure that has long-term

physiological implications that aren't

395

being addressed right now by our

current regulatory recommendations.

396

Speaker 2: I was also so

excited to learn from Dr.

397

Lisa Neff, our relationship researcher.

398

She is out of the University of

Texas at Austin, just like Dr.

399

Emily is, and she has.

400

A lab at UT called the real

Lab or Relationship Experiences

401

across the Lifespan Lab.

402

So I was so excited for our conversation

together, and you can just tell she

403

is a wonderful educator, a wonderful

professor, a wonderful researcher, a

404

wonderful human by how she dives into how

we can better our romantic relationships

405

through communication and how we

handle just different life stressors.

406

She knew the podcast was historically

focused on health and wellness.

407

So it was her idea to open with

the research on how quality

408

relationships actually affect our

physical health and wellbeing.

409

And the study she mentions is one

where my jaw was on the floor.

410

Lisa: So research shows that

our social relationships both.

411

Friends, romantic.

412

All those social network members

have profound impacts on both

413

our mental and physical health.

414

So I'll start with our

emotional wellbeing.

415

Research shows that if you ask people

how satisfied you are in life, the

416

way people answer that question

is by figuring out how satisfied

417

are they in their relationships.

418

Relationships matter more than work than

hobbies, than all those other things.

419

It is the strongest predictor of

life satisfaction and interestingly.

420

When you look at adult relationships,

generally the romantic relationship

421

sort of is on the pedestal.

422

It is one of the most important

relationships that people have

423

in adulthood, be it married or

cohabiting, whatever that looks like.

424

And research has shown that marital

satisfaction and its association

425

with life satisfaction has gotten

stronger over the past 40 years.

426

Meaning that our happiness in our

marriage matters more to our wellbeing

427

today than it did even 40 years ago.

428

But it doesn't just influence

our mental health, it influences

429

our physical health as well.

430

So there's.

431

A lot of research on all the ways our

relationships can both benefit us and

432

get under the skin and cause problems.

433

For us to just give a couple of broad

examples, A few years ago some researchers

434

did a meta-analysis and all that is, is

they aggregated findings from a whole

435

bunch of different studies that had

been conducted looking at predictors

436

of mortality, and they were looking at.

437

All the things that have been studied.

438

So they were looking at, you know,

smoking behaviors and physical inactivity

439

and air pollution, you know, all

these different factors we know can

440

have health consequences for people.

441

And they were also looking

at social relationships.

442

And what they found in this massive

summary of the literature was that the

443

quality of our social relationships.

444

Mattered more than all the

other factors they studied.

445

So people who had at least adequate

social relationships were 50% more

446

likely to still be alive at the end of

the study compared to people who didn't.

447

And the strength of that effect of

social relationships on wellbeing was

448

stronger than things like physical

activity, inactivity and obesity,

449

and those things that we know matter.

450

So this suggests that our health, our

relationships matter a lot for our health.

451

However, we have to make sure that

those relationships are good, right?

452

We know that not all relationships

are the same, and a toxic relationship

453

or a really hostile relationship

can really have some important

454

health consequences for us as well.

455

So in a great set of studies that was

done, uh, by Janice Key quote, Glaser

456

at Ohio State, a number of years ago,

they did work where they basically

457

took this device, you could think of

it as like the size of a smartphone.

458

You put it on the forearm of people

and it created eight little blisters,

459

so they actually wounded participants.

460

They then had these participants who

were couples talk about important

461

issues in their marriage, and they

coded those conversations for the

462

quality of that communication.

463

How well were couples

talking about their problems?

464

Were they using constructive

positive forms of communication,

465

or were they using more hostile

critical forms of communication?

466

What they found was that the wounds,

those blisters, they created, the wounds

467

of the people who used more hostile

communication with their partner healed

468

40% slower than the wounds of the

people who had more constructive forms

469

of communication, which suggests the

quality of our relationship matters.

470

It's not just being in a

relationship, being in a high

471

quality relationship that can have.

472

Beneficial effects for our immune

functioning and being in a negative

473

relationship can have harmful

effects on our immune functioning.

474

Speaker 2: Her primary research

focuses how everyday life stressors

475

affect our relationships, and she

gives such a wonderful explanation

476

on how stressors like traffic or a

big meeting at work can spill over

477

into our romantic relationships.

478

Kelsy: So.

479

Something

480

Lisa: that I think people really need

to keep in mind and you know, when you

481

hear about what does it take to keep a

relationship strong people are often,

482

like, as I said earlier, communication

and gratitude and all these things, but

483

we're not thinking about our broader

life circumstances that all of those

484

stressors we face outside the home.

485

So.

486

Those stressors we have at work.

487

Maybe it's caring for aging parents.

488

Maybe it's a fight we have with a friend.

489

Maybe it's just getting stuck

in a horrible Austin traffic.

490

You know what?

491

Whatever that stressor is, those stressors

change our, our mood, our wellbeing,

492

and we take that home with us and it

spills over into our relationship.

493

It's a process known as stress spillover,

that stressors we experience outside

494

the home, spill over and affect the way

we think and behave inside the home.

495

I'll talk a little bit first about

the way stressors affect us and

496

then I can break it down between

like bigger and daily hassles.

497

But I've done a lot of work on

all the ways stress can interfere

498

with constructive relationships.

499

And basically what stress does is

first it gives us more problems in the

500

relationship that we have to cope with.

501

And second and independently it

hinders our ability to cope with

502

any problems that do crop up.

503

In an adaptive fashion.

504

And so let me give

examples of both of those.

505

First, stress gives us more problems

to deal with in the relationship.

506

What the research shows is

that, you know, we all know we

507

only have 24 hours in the day.

508

That is a reality that we all face.

509

And so every minute that you spend

coping with your stressors is a minute.

510

You're not spending

nurturing the relationship.

511

When partners are coping with more work

stress, more life stressors, whatever, you

512

know, financial stressors, whatever the

stressors may be, they're often spending

513

less time building that emotional capital.

514

They're not engaging in

those nurturing activities.

515

People who have more stress report,

having less time with their partner, and

516

again, we only have 24 hours in the day.

517

If you're working late, that is

time you're not spending with your

518

partner, and they report that the

limited time they do have with

519

their partner is less satisfying.

520

Instead of going on that date

night or doing those things

521

to nurture the relationship.

522

When you're faced with a lot of stress,

often the time you're sharing with your

523

partner is coping with the stress, right?

524

If you have financial difficulties, you're

talking about how to work through that.

525

You're not going on a date

night with each other.

526

And so what happens when people are

more stressed is they start to feel a

527

little bit more emotionally disconnected.

528

I also have research that shows they're

physically disconnected as well.

529

This was a study of newlyweds,

and again, newlyweds.

530

They're in the early phases.

531

Everything's usually pretty

unicorns and rainbows.

532

But uh, I found that even in newlyweds on

days when they had just one stressor, they

533

were less likely to engage in physical

intimacy with their partner compared to

534

days when they didn't have any stress.

535

So it interferes with that kind of

connection that we have with our partner.

536

In addition to just creating more of that

disconnect, when we're stressed, we have

537

more difficulty addressing the problems

that do crop up in our relationship.

538

If the limited time we have with our

partner has to be spent coping with the

539

stressors, well then maybe we'll be okay.

540

If we can use good communication, right,

we can effectively talk through conflict,

541

we can effectively support each other.

542

Stress interferes with all of that.

543

So one thing stress does, I can

sort of walk through a sequence

544

of events when we're stressed.

545

You can think about it as a, it's

a filter in how we view the world.

546

You know, think about when you're

really stressed out, there's

547

sort of a cloud hanging over you.

548

There's a negativity and that

filter comes home with us.

549

So we found in our research that even

among newlyweds who generally see

550

the best in their partner, they're

more likely to focus on the good

551

and downplay the minor negatives.

552

When they're stressed, partners

are more likely to focus on each

553

other's negative qualities and less

so on their positive qualities.

554

So if I'm stressed out, I am much more

likely to notice that my partner didn't

555

unload the dishwasher and not to notice

the other good things they did that day.

556

So when we're stressed, sort of

just colors the way we see things

557

and negativity stands out more,

once we notice that negativity.

558

If we're stressed, we're more likely

to blame our partner for it as opposed

559

to give them the benefit of the doubt.

560

Normally, happy couples when their partner

messes up, they have a grace, right?

561

They're more likely to be like,

okay, you said you were gonna

562

do this, Aaron, you didn't.

563

I know you've got a lot going on.

564

I know this wasn't intentional.

565

We'll deal with it.

566

Versus if I'm stressed,

I'm more likely to think.

567

You said you were gonna do

this errand, you didn't.

568

You're an insensitive jerk, right?

569

You did not pull your weight.

570

Today, we're more likely to have that

more blaming interpretation of why

571

they engage in that negative behavior.

572

And when we try to talk to our

partner about it, we're more

573

hostile in our communication, right?

574

If we're already feeling, I've

noticed these negative things more,

575

I'm blaming you more for them.

576

I'm less constructive in talking

through those problems with my partner.

577

When we do sit down to try

to talk through those issues.

578

And just to really, the cherry on

top of this bad Sunday is we also

579

become worse at being a support

provider when we're stressed.

580

So if we go back to that, you

know, what does it take to

581

be a good support provider?

582

You have to notice your

partner needs support.

583

If I'm stressed, I tend to become more

self-focused as opposed to other focused.

584

So I am less likely to pick up on the

cues that my partner wants support.

585

Let's say my partner's very direct

and they're like, Hey, I need support

586

right now, so I know they want support.

587

Our research also shows that if

I am stressed, even when I know

588

my partner wants support, I'm

less likely to give it, right?

589

I might feel overwhelmed, like

I don't have any resources to

590

give, so I'm just less likely to

provide support in that moment.

591

And if I do dig deep and try hard

to give that support, the support

592

I give is usually of lower quality.

593

It can really interfere with all these

levels of what it takes to keep your

594

relationship happy and strong over time.

595

So stress can be really

damaging to a relationship.

596

Speaker 2: We pivoted a bit from

our typical health and wellness

597

content to bring on a guest who is

an expert in, let's say, financial

598

health and wellness, both when it

comes to personal finance and travel.

599

Katie's a certified credit counselor

and writer for bank rate, so she

600

knows a thing or two about money,

habits and, and how to approach

601

money basics specifically as women.

602

I love this next clip where she shares

some insight into how women should

603

approach finances a bit differently

based on our own strengths and values.

604

Katie: Oh my gosh.

605

Yeah.

606

We talk about standards that were

set by men, like two examples that

607

come to mind are the fact that.

608

The AC temperature in an office is

usually based on like an older man.

609

And the second thing I'm thinking

of is how seat belts were

610

designed to work with a man.

611

And in a lot of ways, I think that

money guidance was also driven by men.

612

I'm thinking specifically of

like Dave Ramsey and those

613

mindsets are not necessarily.

614

The best, nor are they the ones

that are most helpful for women.

615

Women have different things

we wanna spend our money on.

616

We're smarter at making certain decisions.

617

For example, the idea that you shouldn't

have any debt, in my mind is an outdated

618

way of thinking, like especially women.

619

Depending on where you come

from, debt can be the tool that

620

takes you to the next level.

621

Not talking about credit card debt.

622

I'm talking about like if you need debt

to elevate your education levels or

623

your your wealth to start a business.

624

Like those things benefit women.

625

And I also don't prescribe

too total deprivation.

626

I think that it's good to

want to treat yourself or.

627

Add joy to your life

for your friend's life.

628

Like you're saying.

629

It's more about figuring out

how that fits in your budget.

630

So anyway, I think there is a take

on money that women can have that's

631

much more helpful to our finances.

632

Speaker 2: She also shares things we

might need a closet clean out when it

633

comes to our mindsets around finances.

634

Kelsy: Are there certain mindsets or money

habits that we should closet clean out in

635

2026 and sort of shed in this new year?

636

Katie: Yes.

637

I like this idea too because it's

not about doing more, adding this

638

thing to your list, it's more about

just slightly tweaking your habits.

639

One of the things I write about a lot

at Bankrate and probably 'cause I'm

640

so guilty of it, is impulse shopping.

641

You're scrolling on social media.

642

You see this really cute set that

an influencer's wearing and you just

643

need it right then, or I thrift a

lot and it's really easy to have the

644

impulse mindset when you're thrifting

because you think like, if I don't

645

get it today, it's gonna be gone.

646

But if you do that for a $50 vintage

jacket every month, like, okay,

647

now you don't need another jacket.

648

Like there will always be more.

649

Two ways that I prevent this are the wait

24 hours rule, which is like, I can always

650

go back tomorrow if you really want it.

651

It will still be on Etsy in 24 hours.

652

That lets you look at your budget,

look at your closet, make sure

653

it's like actually a good choice.

654

And this could include a trip.

655

Or an experience too, by the way.

656

This isn't just like a

piece of clothing, right?

657

And then also to create

friction between that purchase.

658

And so what I mean is like, it's not

as easy as just having your credit

659

card information saved on TikTok

shop, and you're like, perfect.

660

Add to cart milk.

661

Or like the Amazon app, or, my

gosh, I had to delete the Amazon

662

app for my phone 'cause it was

getting too easy to just order.

663

Off of some, you know, I don't

even feel like going to the store.

664

I just need more shampoo.

665

But then I was just wasting money and

wasted cardboard and shipping, and

666

so I deleted the app off my phone.

667

But creating friction between

your wants and that purchase.

668

But like I was saying, I'm not

a huge fan of total deprivation,

669

so it's okay to want things.

670

That's when that budgeting

act comes into play.

671

Look at how much money you have,

how much is left for that month.

672

Instead of shopping impulsively,

you can shop strategically.

673

Another habit that I think we

could stand to break is carrying

674

a balance on our credit cards.

675

This I thought was kind of

something everyone prescribed too.

676

'cause I was taught this from an early

age, like always pay off your balances.

677

But.

678

In speaking with people at work and

in personal life, I have realized this

679

isn't necessarily a universal idea.

680

People will put vacations or lifestyle

purchases on a credit card and use

681

it as a way to pay it off over time.

682

But credit card interest is one of

the most expensive forms of debt.

683

It's like 19% right now, which is actually

a little lower than it's been, but

684

the highest card can have a 30% rate.

685

And the thing about.

686

Credit card interest is at it compounds.

687

So if you pay a little bit in interest

today, tomorrow you're gonna pay a

688

little bit more on top of your interest.

689

It's just a dangerous game to play.

690

So paying off your balance in full if

you can, should always be like number

691

one priority when it comes to looking

at your money at the end of the month.

692

And then a third habit I think

that we could stand to break is

693

letting money drive your emotions.

694

And I say this one with all the love

and grace because I used to have a lot

695

of money anxiety, like when I would

check my money at the end of the month

696

and say I spent a little too much,

or I didn't have enough left to save.

697

I felt like weird guilt and anxiety

when really money is a lifelong

698

practice, it takes time to be

good at it, but if you're feeling.

699

You know, fearful or anxious about

it, you might be more inclined to

700

impulse shop 'cause you're like,

I'll never get the hang of it.

701

Let me just buy this thing

to make myself feel better.

702

Or sometimes like loneliness

can drive purchases.

703

And I would say overall, the more

that you can separate your emotions

704

from money this year and just

approach it very rationally, like as

705

a tool, nothing more, nothing less.

706

It's not a reflection of your character.

707

That will help you just have

more base around money and

708

make better decisions with it.

709

Speaker 2: Lastly, Katie was able to give

us some travel tips and tricks to make

710

travel more achievable in 2026 and work

with our finances rather than feeling

711

guilty about such an expensive purchase

when it comes to something like travel.

712

Kelsy: What are some of those things that

you wish you knew when it came to travel?

713

Katie: When I became a credit cards

writer, ironically, I learned so

714

much about how to help myself in

my personal life when it comes

715

to taking advantage of like free

credit card stuff, and I say this.

716

With the caveat that you need

to be a responsible credit user,

717

like don't carry a balance.

718

I don't want you to ruin your credit score

for this, but for example, some of the

719

best travel cards out there will give you

like 50 to a hundred thousand points as

720

a welcome bonus when you get them, and

you have to reach them by spending like

721

$4,000 in three months, which kind of

sounds like a lot, but if you look at your

722

budget, it's usually pretty achievable

or you can time it with a big purchase.

723

So I use these welcome

bonuses to pay for my trips.

724

And what I mean by that is like,

for example, my fiance and I

725

are planning a wedding, we're

gonna wanna go on a honeymoon.

726

I just applied for one of these cards.

727

I'm gonna use it to pay for some of

the down payments on my wedding stuff.

728

Earn the welcome bonus,

which right now is.

729

I'll even tell you it's

Capital One Venture Card.

730

They're having a boosted

welcome bonus right now.

731

So you get 75,000 points and you get

a $250 Capital One travel credit.

732

And when you get that, by spending

$4,000 like that is gonna pay

733

for honeymoon flights that will

pay for one of our hotel nights.

734

You know?

735

And otherwise, like in my early

twenties, ironically, I had less money.

736

I was paying for all of this out

of pocket 'cause I didn't know.

737

And so anyway, that's my advice is to

explore credit cards with welcome bonuses

738

and then use a travel credit card for

all your other stuff too at bank rate.

739

I have statistically found that

people prefer cashback cards.

740

I genuinely think it's just easier

to understand you get this much

741

dollar for this much spend, but

travel points actually tend to

742

be worth more than cash back.

743

It's so much more rewarding to

pay for a flight than to get

744

like money back as a statement.

745

Credit on your card.

746

So use your capital card to pay for

groceries, to pay for your essentials,

747

and then you can use that stash

of points to pay for your chips.

748

So that's my biggest money tip

for young people that I wish I

749

had known in my early twenties.

750

And other tips would be to do

things like travel during the off

751

season, live like a local, save

your money and do things like that.

752

Speaker 2: We ended the festival by

bringing everything together with

753

Aaron, who is a Certified Habit

coach, author, and the founder

754

of the Habit Coach Professionals.

755

I love the way she teaches about habits,

goals, behaviors, routines, and all of

756

the behavioral science that goes into it.

757

It will definitely be an episode

I listened to year after year.

758

I'm very excited for her book to come out.

759

She's also launching a newsletter

program that I'll leave the link

760

below for that if you guys wanna join.

761

I know I definitely will be.

762

I've already joined her.

763

Launch Ambassador program to help get

the word out because I really do feel

764

like she educates about behaviors and

habits and routines in such a tangible

765

way for a lot of us, just everyday people.

766

So here's a little glimpse

into our conversation together.

767

Kelsy: So I think there's.

768

A little bit of a difference between

like goals and maybe our habits,

769

but perhaps there shouldn't be.

770

As I'll explain.

771

So oftentimes people, there

are three levels of goals.

772

If you've ever read Atomic Habits

by James Claire, he's talked about

773

this, but there are outcome goals,

there are process goals, and then

774

there are identity based goals.

775

So most people, especially with their

New Year's resolution, set outcome goals.

776

I wanna lose 25 pounds by X date.

777

I wanna meditate more.

778

I wanna feel better.

779

They're kind of like these long

things that are out, not very much

780

definition around them, and therefore

we don't have much control over them.

781

Process goals are the next step.

782

That's really good.

783

Those are the actions that

are gonna actually get us to

784

those outcomes that we want.

785

So maybe I'm actually in the gym for

20 minutes doing strength training

786

three times a week, or I'm reading 10

minutes every morning if I wanna be a

787

better reader or writing whatever those

goals might be, meditating whatnot.

788

Then there's the identity goals.

789

It's like, who do I want to be?

790

What is an innately feels like

me and the values I have and

791

how I wanna live out my life?

792

So digging deeper from that just

outcome based goal that most of us

793

set into those process, and then even

identity goals are gonna help us stick

794

longer when it comes into habits.

795

And the behaviors for those behavior

based goals, behavior's, very complex.

796

Most people don't realize it, but

it's not just like, I wanna do this

797

thing, so I'm gonna do this thing.

798

There are a variety of things that

go into how we make decisions, and

799

then what makes behaviors happen,

and then how does a behavior actually

800

get repeated and turned into a habit.

801

So if we are looking to build better

habits, we need to look into things

802

like what is activating our habits?

803

So both internally, so things

like thoughts, feelings, emotions,

804

sensations, and externally, all of the

dings and pings in our environment.

805

Smells, you know, if you always drive

by a drive through and you always

806

smell the burger and fries, are

you activated to go get fast food?

807

Um, the people you see in your

environment, friends, family,

808

coworkers at home, at work, wherever

you might be in your third space.

809

And then just what's around

your home space, you know?

810

Do you have healthy food sitting

out or is it junk food sitting out?

811

Do you have things that are gonna

encourage you to be active or sit around?

812

Do you have things that are gonna

encourage you to read, to meditate, to

813

write, to be a good partner or a friend?

814

Um, so those things in our

environment are super important

815

to triggering the behaviors we do.

816

We think we have free will, but

oftentimes it's these things in our

817

environment within us and around us

that are triggering us to do things.

818

So we need to take note of those things.

819

We also need to have the ability.

820

To do the behavior which people

think, you know, of course I can

821

write every day, or of course I can

eat healthy, like I have the ability.

822

But there are so many things that go

into ability, the knowledge to do it,

823

the skills to do it, the resources

to be able to do it, but also our own

824

perceived ability and self-efficacy.

825

So do we have the confidence that we can

do this not just on like day one, when

826

we're like super motivated in gung-ho.

827

But on our worst possible day when

like shit has hit the fan and you

828

know everything's going wrong, and

I still need to be able to take

829

action and build this identity that

I want to have through my actions.

830

I think the most overlooked one is we

need to have a rewarding experience.

831

People often forget about this, but we

are wired for immediate gratification that

832

is millennia of evolution, nudging us in

the direction of going towards whatever

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is gratifying immediately and rewarding

immediately and enjoyable immediately.

834

And if we fight that, we're literally just

beating our head against the brick wall.

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So instead of fighting it,

why don't we work with it?

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So a lot of times the things that

are valuable to us and the changes

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we want to make, they're hard to do.

838

They're unpleasant to do.

839

And so how do we make those

more enjoyable and easier to do?

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And then we just have to have our

environments set up so that we can

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consistently repeat the things we want

to do or set up so we don't consistently

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repeat the things we don't want to do.

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And that's just, you know, a

summary and it gets very, very

844

complex when you actually start

to assess those things and dig in.

845

But that's what I would take note

as far as like building a habit.

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And then the goals we set should be more

focused towards those behavior-based

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goals and identity-based goals as

opposed to our outcome-based goals.

848

Speaker 2: I'm so, so grateful to all of

our wonderful guests for chatting with

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us, teaching with us, and allowing us

to learn from their research knowledge

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and years and years of expertise,

whether clinical or in the lab.

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I had so much fun.

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I learned a lot, and I

hope you guys did too.

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I was so, so excited to be able to

share these conversations with you guys.

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So if you enjoy learning just as much as

I do, I hope you also learn so much from.

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Each of our wonderful women

that we've had on the podcast

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over the last four-ish weeks.

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I also just wanted to say a special thanks

to each of you guys for supporting and

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following along, listening and learning

along with me sharing these episodes.

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It means the world to me.

860

I have seen a lot of growth over the last

six months and I have you guys to thank,

861

so please let me know if there is ever

anything that you wanna hear more of.

862

If you enjoy certain topics a little more.

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I am basing it based off the numbers

and a lot of the numbers have guided me

864

towards different experts that I know

you guys are interested in learning

865

from based on our past episodes.

866

But if there's ever anything you guys

wanna learn about a little bit more or.

867

Have me reach out to certain experts

in that field, please let me know.

868

I would be happy to.

869

I love having these conversations.

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I love being able to share them

with you guys, and I'm just

871

grateful for all of your support.

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No matter if that's listening every

week, sharing an episode or subscribing,

873

following along, leaving a review,

following along, liking posts on

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social media, that also helps as well.

875

So I'm just very grateful for you guys.

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Thank you.

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I hope you are enjoying this podcast

just as much as I enjoy creating it.

878

So that wraps up Coachella.

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I hope you guys enjoyed it and I

will see you guys again for our next

880

episode on Wellness Fix the Pop.