Dr. Kelsy Vick closes out the Goalchella Podcast Festival with self-selected highlights from expert interviews recorded from November through early February, created around common New Year’s goals for women. She revisits key moments from: Dr. Sam Moore on female physiology, menstrual-cycle awareness, resilience in training, energy availability, and the importance of carbohydrates and progressive strength training; Dr. Emily Hilz on the dopamine reward system, estrogen sensitivity across the menstrual cycle, and how hormonal states can influence reward seeking and motivation, plus an overview of endocrine disrupting chemicals (including bisphenols, phthalates, PFAAS, parabens, and flame retardants), where they’re found, and why “safe” levels are complicated by sensitive developmental windows and mixture effects; Dr. Lisa Neff on how relationship quality impacts mental and physical health, including research linking social relationship quality to mortality risk and evidence that hostile couple communication slows wound healing, and how everyday stressors spill over into relationships by reducing connection, increasing negativity and blame, worsening conflict communication, and undermining support; Katie (a certified credit counselor and Bankrate writer) on women-centered approaches to money, breaking habits like impulse shopping and carrying credit card balances, separating emotions from money, and using travel credit cards and welcome bonuses responsibly to reduce travel costs; and Aaron (a certified habit coach) on outcome vs process vs identity goals, the behavior science of cues, ability/self-efficacy, and reward, and designing environments to support habit formation. She thanks listeners for supporting the series, invites topic and guest requests, and transitions back to regular episodes of Wellness Fix the Pod.

loving the pod? click the follow button, & we'd love if you could leave a review! thank you x 1000 :)

sign up for the free Smart Girl Newspaper!

insta:: @dr.kelsyvickdpt & @wellnessbigsispod

youtube:: @dr.kelsyvickdpt

tiktok:: @dr.kelsyvickdpt & @wellnessbigsispod

sign up for our patreon for exclusive content & workouts!

We're wrapping up our Coachella Podcast Festival and as sad

2

00:00:03,630 --> 00:00:08,640

as I am that it's ending, I am so, so

happy that I was finally able to share

3

00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:10,020

all of these episodes with you guys.

4

00:00:10,020 --> 00:00:15,510

So let's go through some of my own

self-selected highlights for each of

5

00:00:15,510 --> 00:00:19,620

our expert guests that were a part

of this wonderful podcast festival.

6

00:00:20,130 --> 00:00:21,690

Welcome back to Wellness Fix the Pod.

7

00:00:21,690 --> 00:00:22,350

I'm your host, Dr.

8

00:00:22,350 --> 00:00:24,930

Kelsey Vic, a board certified orthopedic

doctor, physical therapy, and a

9

00:00:24,930 --> 00:00:26,970

pelvic floor physical therapist and.

10

00:00:27,510 --> 00:00:33,330

I had majority of these conversations

back from, I'd say, November to

11

00:00:33,330 --> 00:00:36,990

early February, and I knew that I

wanted to have this podcast festival.

12

00:00:36,990 --> 00:00:42,330

I knew that I wanted it to focus on

different categories that a lot of us

13

00:00:42,330 --> 00:00:44,610

girls have goals on in the New Years.

14

00:00:44,610 --> 00:00:50,220

So I have just slowly been reaching out

to different researchers and experts

15

00:00:50,220 --> 00:00:53,730

in certain categories and interviewing

them and having these conversations.

16

00:00:54,224 --> 00:00:57,705

As nerve wracking as it is going into

these conversations, and as much as I

17

00:00:57,705 --> 00:01:03,434

want to have a wonderful conversation and

be a wonderful host to highlight these

18

00:01:03,434 --> 00:01:07,185

guest experts, I do get so, so nervous.

19

00:01:07,185 --> 00:01:12,854

But after each and every conversation, I

am riding on such a high, I learn so much.

20

00:01:12,854 --> 00:01:13,725

I love learning.

21

00:01:13,725 --> 00:01:16,545

I love being able to share what

I'm learning from these guest

22

00:01:16,545 --> 00:01:17,715

experts with all of you guys.

23

00:01:17,715 --> 00:01:22,125

And so it was so exciting for me to have

these conversations and then really.

24

00:01:22,500 --> 00:01:29,070

Be able to hopefully deliver them to you

guys in such a wonderful way that really

25

00:01:29,070 --> 00:01:33,180

just highlights some of the truth behind

a lot of the goals that we have as women.

26

00:01:33,180 --> 00:01:34,740

So I hope you guys enjoyed them.

27

00:01:35,100 --> 00:01:38,789

I sat on some of these episodes

for like two months, probably

28

00:01:38,789 --> 00:01:42,420

waiting to release them all together

in this podcast festival style.

29

00:01:42,780 --> 00:01:45,600

So it was one of those things where

I was like, oh, I really wish I could

30

00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,840

release them right now because it

was such a wonderful conversation

31

00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:52,500

and I really want them to have this

information, have this education,

32

00:01:52,500 --> 00:01:55,590

have this knowledge, and be able to

enjoy this conversation just as I did.

33

00:01:55,590 --> 00:02:00,090

But I think, I hope that you guys enjoyed

it in the way that it was released

34

00:02:00,090 --> 00:02:03,930

and enjoyed each of our conversations

with each of the expert guests.

35

00:02:03,930 --> 00:02:07,710

And I think it's always fun after these

podcast festivals to sort of wrap it up

36

00:02:07,740 --> 00:02:11,730

and take out clips that I found very.

37

00:02:12,225 --> 00:02:15,645

Impactful in my own life or

knowledge that I didn't have before,

38

00:02:15,645 --> 00:02:19,695

that I now have from each of our

episodes with each of our guests.

39

00:02:19,695 --> 00:02:21,255

So that's what this episode is.

40

00:02:21,255 --> 00:02:24,945

I also say every time to use it

as an episode to sort of guide

41

00:02:24,945 --> 00:02:28,905

where you want to listen back, if

you happen to miss an episode or.

42

00:02:29,325 --> 00:02:30,345

Be like, oh, you know what?

43

00:02:30,345 --> 00:02:33,405

I actually forgot that she said that,

or I was listening to that episode

44

00:02:33,405 --> 00:02:35,925

while also talking to my sister,

and I didn't really get to that one

45

00:02:35,985 --> 00:02:37,725

and I really missed that segment.

46

00:02:37,725 --> 00:02:41,355

So it's a way to have almost like

the SparkNotes, the book club

47

00:02:41,355 --> 00:02:43,125

version of the podcast festival.

48

00:02:43,125 --> 00:02:46,425

That way if there's anything that you

guys missed or resonated with, you can

49

00:02:46,425 --> 00:02:51,375

maybe go back to that episode and get a

little bit of a deeper dive and deeper

50

00:02:51,375 --> 00:02:53,145

understanding on each of those topics.

51

00:02:53,355 --> 00:02:55,395

So our first guest we had

on the podcast was Dr.

52

00:02:55,395 --> 00:02:58,605

Sam Moore, and I don't know if you guys

could tell during the episode, but.

53

00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:04,680

We just clicked and I think this

is the episode that I resonate

54

00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:08,070

with probably the most in sort

of my education and my expertise.

55

00:03:08,070 --> 00:03:11,220

I'm a kinesiology major,

exercise science, so Dr.

56

00:03:11,220 --> 00:03:14,340

Sam and I have similar backgrounds

up until the undergraduate level

57

00:03:14,340 --> 00:03:18,690

probably, but it's not until we, we

diverge for grad school where she

58

00:03:18,690 --> 00:03:19,765

took more of that research route.

59

00:03:20,285 --> 00:03:24,725

I took more of the clinical route,

so I always love getting to chat

60

00:03:24,725 --> 00:03:29,015

with exercise physiologists and

PhD researchers on the female human

61

00:03:29,015 --> 00:03:30,755

body because it's something that.

62

00:03:31,424 --> 00:03:35,415

I am passionate about as well and

passionate about it in the way of physical

63

00:03:35,415 --> 00:03:38,685

health and wellbeing and exercise and

training, which is exactly what Dr.

64

00:03:38,685 --> 00:03:39,704

Sam is the expert on.

65

00:03:39,734 --> 00:03:43,515

So I was very grateful to have her

on, not only to share about the

66

00:03:43,515 --> 00:03:47,834

female physiology, the female body,

how we can exercise for our female

67

00:03:47,834 --> 00:03:49,709

bodies, but also to get her approach.

68

00:03:49,709 --> 00:03:52,484

One of the things that really stuck

out to me from our episode together.

69

00:03:53,035 --> 00:03:57,714

Was how involved she is in female

physiology training performance,

70

00:03:57,924 --> 00:04:02,665

yet how adaptable and resilient

and flexible she is with her

71

00:04:02,665 --> 00:04:04,045

own health and wellness routine.

72

00:04:04,315 --> 00:04:08,515

So often we can get caught up in what

we should be doing without taking

73

00:04:08,515 --> 00:04:13,524

into account our lives that are

influencing what we should be doing.

74

00:04:13,975 --> 00:04:19,675

So I loved how she

prioritized the okayness of.

75

00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:22,740

Giving our bodies grace and

being resilient with them.

76

00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:27,060

No matter the stage in our cycle we're

in, no matter the life stage we're in,

77

00:04:27,090 --> 00:04:31,950

no matter what our bodies and minds are

requiring at that point in our lives.

78

00:04:32,490 --> 00:04:36,690

One of my favorite clips from the

episode was actually laughing about how

79

00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,240

we both viewed our menstrual cycles.

80

00:04:39,830 --> 00:04:42,350

Kelsy: And for me, a lot of it

is based on my menstrual cycle.

81

00:04:42,350 --> 00:04:46,250

Like I, you know, the week before I

started my period in my mid to late

82

00:04:46,250 --> 00:04:48,170

luteal phase, it's rough for me.

83

00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:52,640

Like, we used to make so many jokes

in, in the lab at UNC, it was a

84

00:04:53,180 --> 00:04:55,430

almost all women lab at times.

85

00:04:55,430 --> 00:04:57,710

And, you know, we always

talked about the luteal phase.

86

00:04:57,710 --> 00:04:59,960

Like she was one of our lab

mates that we couldn't stand.

87

00:05:00,230 --> 00:05:04,520

And for me that meant that, you know,

I, I needed to make sure that my

88

00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,580

water was really on that I was getting

some movement throughout the day.

89

00:05:07,730 --> 00:05:11,990

There's like a four to five day block

where I just feel awful and I might get

90

00:05:11,990 --> 00:05:15,410

one workout in that block, but getting a

little bit more movement throughout the

91

00:05:15,410 --> 00:05:18,740

day because I know I'm not gonna have

the energy to go and do a really hard

92

00:05:18,740 --> 00:05:20,030

training session at the end of the day.

93

00:05:20,704 --> 00:05:24,995

It is just kind of planning and being

aware of how your body responds and

94

00:05:24,995 --> 00:05:29,825

then understanding as you go what

things you need at different times.

95

00:05:30,395 --> 00:05:32,315

I like how you personified a luteal phase.

96

00:05:32,345 --> 00:05:36,545

'cause I say in my back half, especially

like you said, that week or a few days

97

00:05:36,545 --> 00:05:38,975

before, it's like, that's not real Kelsey.

98

00:05:38,975 --> 00:05:40,145

You know, that's fake Kelsey.

99

00:05:40,145 --> 00:05:43,745

We just do what we can with fake

Kelsey until real Kelsey shows up

100

00:05:43,745 --> 00:05:45,725

again and feels better after a workout.

101

00:05:46,085 --> 00:05:47,345

That was me just last week.

102

00:05:47,525 --> 00:05:49,355

My husband was like,

how do your workout go?

103

00:05:49,355 --> 00:05:50,284

I was like, terrible.

104

00:05:50,284 --> 00:05:50,944

But that was fake.

105

00:05:50,944 --> 00:05:52,745

Kelsey, that's expected at this time.

106

00:05:53,525 --> 00:05:54,605

Yeah, I do the same thing.

107

00:05:54,605 --> 00:05:56,433

I'm like, well, if Ms.

108

00:05:56,433 --> 00:05:59,735

Progesterone's here, like I'm gonna

need to set my alarm an hour later.

109

00:05:59,735 --> 00:06:01,475

That is what I need, you know?

110

00:06:01,535 --> 00:06:05,434

And I need a little bit more silent

time and I need, you know, to

111

00:06:05,434 --> 00:06:07,085

not have an attitude with myself.

112

00:06:07,595 --> 00:06:09,545

I need to give myself a

little bit more grace.

113

00:06:09,545 --> 00:06:11,944

I probably need to give a little

bit more grace to people around me.

114

00:06:12,365 --> 00:06:15,545

But I think like so much of

that is just tracking it, right?

115

00:06:15,545 --> 00:06:15,785

Like.

116

00:06:16,325 --> 00:06:20,795

Before I used to track my cycle,

I would've guessed that like the

117

00:06:20,795 --> 00:06:23,255

worst time was during my period,

because that's what we're taught.

118

00:06:23,704 --> 00:06:27,635

And in reality, it's actually usually

not like when you look at it from

119

00:06:27,635 --> 00:06:29,585

like an objective recovery standpoint.

120

00:06:30,035 --> 00:06:33,694

And so I think like the importance of

tracking it, I also, when I was kind

121

00:06:33,694 --> 00:06:37,775

of younger in like my early twenties,

before I started learning or reading

122

00:06:37,775 --> 00:06:42,635

about female physiology, um, I would

have these like emotional breakdowns

123

00:06:42,964 --> 00:06:47,585

very consistently where I'd be like,

I'm 24, I've got nothing to show for it.

124

00:06:47,585 --> 00:06:49,385

I've accomplished nothing in my life.

125

00:06:49,385 --> 00:06:51,515

I'm an embarrassment to my family.

126

00:06:52,025 --> 00:06:54,875

I don't even know how they

let me keep the family name.

127

00:06:54,964 --> 00:06:56,674

Like what have I done in my life?

128

00:06:56,674 --> 00:06:59,315

What do I have to show for

these 24 years I've been alive?

129

00:06:59,645 --> 00:07:03,100

And then I would start my period like

six days later and I'd be like, oh.

130

00:07:04,039 --> 00:07:05,780

I guess I have graduated college.

131

00:07:06,020 --> 00:07:07,220

I guess I'm a good person.

132

00:07:07,220 --> 00:07:11,750

Like I, you know, try to show up for

my friends or think of whatever it was.

133

00:07:11,914 --> 00:07:16,339

And so like once I started to track it,

I was like, oh, that's actually not me.

134

00:07:16,399 --> 00:07:17,569

That's not my feeling.

135

00:07:17,929 --> 00:07:20,329

That is my luteal phase

when I'm having that.

136

00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:23,044

And so then it became this thing of

like every time I would go to have

137

00:07:23,044 --> 00:07:26,119

this like spiral, if I've accomplished

nothing in my life, I'd be like, no, no,

138

00:07:26,419 --> 00:07:28,309

you're gonna revisit this in seven days.

139

00:07:28,399 --> 00:07:33,139

And if you still feel that way, then we

can take it to the higher ups and maybe

140

00:07:33,139 --> 00:07:35,119

talk to someone about, but like right now.

141

00:07:35,605 --> 00:07:38,555

Just give it a week and you're

probably not gonna feel like this.

142

00:07:38,555 --> 00:07:41,585

And it allowed me to regulate

it to a level where like, I, I

143

00:07:41,585 --> 00:07:43,295

don't struggle with that anymore.

144

00:07:43,325 --> 00:07:44,555

And it was just from tracking it.

145

00:07:44,805 --> 00:07:47,655

Speaker 2: I also, of course, had

to ask her to clarify something.

146

00:07:47,655 --> 00:07:49,755

I know a lot of us as girls struggle with.

147

00:07:50,205 --> 00:07:55,034

Mix of fueling appropriately, training

correctly when it comes to our body

148

00:07:55,034 --> 00:07:57,045

composition or body recomposition goals.

149

00:07:57,495 --> 00:08:01,875

She chats about the importance of energy

availability and why we as women need

150

00:08:01,875 --> 00:08:05,895

to be approaching fasting and carbs

and maybe a little bit of a different

151

00:08:05,895 --> 00:08:09,120

way than what we've been told in

definitely in a different way than men.

152

00:08:09,785 --> 00:08:15,035

Kelsy: So can you talk a little bit about

just how our bodies as women differ from

153

00:08:15,275 --> 00:08:19,775

maybe a metabolic standpoint when it

comes to something like body composition

154

00:08:19,865 --> 00:08:21,905

compared to the male physiology?

155

00:08:22,115 --> 00:08:25,085

So it's the process of losing

fat and gaining muscle.

156

00:08:25,085 --> 00:08:29,255

We call it body recomposition, and

it's quite hard to be totally honest

157

00:08:29,255 --> 00:08:33,245

with you when you think about like

what are the physiological systems or

158

00:08:33,245 --> 00:08:38,585

processes that are required to lose bat

mass, and then what are the systems and

159

00:08:38,585 --> 00:08:40,534

processes required to gain muscle mass?

160

00:08:40,534 --> 00:08:43,445

They're kind of in opposition

and so it is challenging.

161

00:08:43,475 --> 00:08:46,535

It's challenging thing to do and that's

why sometimes looking at it through

162

00:08:46,535 --> 00:08:51,935

too small of a lens timeline-wise can

be difficult in what we see and and

163

00:08:51,935 --> 00:08:57,875

I think we see it play out in person,

is that female systems bodies are

164

00:08:57,875 --> 00:09:00,485

more sensitive to low calorie intake.

165

00:09:00,485 --> 00:09:04,205

And so looking at energy

availability and the threshold at

166

00:09:04,205 --> 00:09:08,045

which we see hormonal dysfunction

happen because we know now that.

167

00:09:08,900 --> 00:09:11,329

Reds relative energy deficiency in sport.

168

00:09:11,329 --> 00:09:15,500

This mismatch of calories in and

calories expended, it can happen to

169

00:09:15,500 --> 00:09:19,700

male and females and there's health

consequences and performance consequences.

170

00:09:19,970 --> 00:09:23,420

But I think because of some of the kind

of prior work on the female athlete triad,

171

00:09:23,420 --> 00:09:25,160

we really focus on the female part a bit.

172

00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:26,210

But it can happen to both.

173

00:09:26,660 --> 00:09:32,090

And in reality, the threshold of

energy availability that it can

174

00:09:32,090 --> 00:09:34,790

happen at for females is much sooner.

175

00:09:34,790 --> 00:09:38,390

And so we are more sensitive

to that low calorie intake.

176

00:09:38,390 --> 00:09:41,990

And there's even been some really

interesting research that talks about

177

00:09:41,990 --> 00:09:44,750

within day low carbohydrate availability.

178

00:09:45,410 --> 00:09:50,570

And so, you know, the exercises is

always tough because I think it's

179

00:09:50,570 --> 00:09:53,540

easy to talk about what we know

from science, but also life is hard.

180

00:09:53,870 --> 00:09:57,620

And there are some warnings, like

usually if I don't get my training

181

00:09:57,620 --> 00:10:01,760

in before eight 30 in the morning,

it's unlikely to happen at all.

182

00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:06,200

But sometimes when I get up at five,

food is the last thing I want to eat.

183

00:10:06,260 --> 00:10:10,520

And you know, I forgot to pick up my

protein shakes at the store and I don't

184

00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:14,540

wanna have to eat a banana, or all

I have is a sourdough English muffin

185

00:10:14,540 --> 00:10:17,510

and I'm not gonna down that before

I go ride the bike for 45 minutes.

186

00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,060

And so I'll just put some

electrolytes in my water.

187

00:10:20,180 --> 00:10:23,780

It's not ideal, but I think the

balance of science in real life.

188

00:10:23,810 --> 00:10:28,340

So I think that's a, a big caveat, but

in the science perspective, the within

189

00:10:28,340 --> 00:10:32,480

day low carbohydrate availability

is really negative for females in

190

00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,540

a way that it doesn't affect male

physiology in quite the same way.

191

00:10:35,540 --> 00:10:39,590

So there's some research that says

even just going like two hours without

192

00:10:40,130 --> 00:10:44,090

carbohydrate availability, so with like

low blood sugar can be enough to start to

193

00:10:44,090 --> 00:10:45,920

induce some of the hormonal dysfunction.

194

00:10:46,820 --> 00:10:49,880

You know, I think when we're talking

about like what are the differences

195

00:10:49,940 --> 00:10:53,810

metabolically, you know, not eating

enough calories and metabolic suppression

196

00:10:53,810 --> 00:10:58,430

with females is a much bigger issue

because we don't have as much resiliency

197

00:10:58,430 --> 00:11:00,170

to that, the, the carbohydrates.

198

00:11:00,170 --> 00:11:05,540

So like, you know, I grew up as a kid

in a time of like a very anti carb life.

199

00:11:05,630 --> 00:11:08,480

You know, it was like, I think it was like

the Atkins side or something like that.

200

00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:11,030

There's like no carbs and now it's keto.

201

00:11:11,090 --> 00:11:15,650

And we know that females respond

differently to keto than males do.

202

00:11:15,890 --> 00:11:19,160

And you know, the

importance of carbs is huge.

203

00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:22,070

Like, it's something like I have to

tell my husband about all the time.

204

00:11:22,070 --> 00:11:25,220

Like even just the other day I was

going through my dick, this massive

205

00:11:25,220 --> 00:11:28,070

headache at 2:00 PM I had to take

a second lay down on the floor.

206

00:11:28,070 --> 00:11:29,030

I'm like, what is going on?

207

00:11:29,030 --> 00:11:29,720

Why do I feel like this?

208

00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:32,150

I'm like, oh my gosh, I

haven't had a carbohydrate

209

00:11:32,150 --> 00:11:34,430

since 6:00 AM What am I doing?

210

00:11:34,430 --> 00:11:38,450

It just sneaks up on you and you're like,

I haven't even looked at a carb today.

211

00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:40,850

Like I, of course I'm unwell.

212

00:11:40,850 --> 00:11:42,710

That's my fuel and my energy.

213

00:11:42,740 --> 00:11:45,500

And I also think, like

right now, there's so much.

214

00:11:45,905 --> 00:11:51,155

Content out there about women

specific this and female focused that.

215

00:11:51,605 --> 00:11:58,565

And I think that it really shows

how desperate we are for information

216

00:11:58,895 --> 00:12:04,115

because so many women have this shared

experience of like doing this thing

217

00:12:04,115 --> 00:12:07,925

that we're taught specific, you know,

help us lose weight or gain muscle or

218

00:12:07,925 --> 00:12:09,935

feel better and it doesn't work for us.

219

00:12:09,935 --> 00:12:13,055

And it is because a lot of it comes

from research on male physiology.

220

00:12:13,055 --> 00:12:18,395

And so, you know, this kind of push pull

of like, there's a lot of influencers

221

00:12:18,605 --> 00:12:22,385

putting out content on these things and

you know, I think sometimes you're like,

222

00:12:22,415 --> 00:12:26,660

oh, maybe we could like discern that a

little more or like add a little nuance.

223

00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:31,745

But I really, I think it's like part

of this like bigger collective push

224

00:12:31,745 --> 00:12:35,735

and need and desire for information.

225

00:12:35,975 --> 00:12:40,415

The last thing I would say is, is

kind of not shying away from heavy

226

00:12:40,415 --> 00:12:42,005

progressive strength training.

227

00:12:42,590 --> 00:12:44,240

For the short term and the long term.

228

00:12:44,299 --> 00:12:45,499

Speaker 2: Our next guest was Dr.

229

00:12:45,499 --> 00:12:49,099

Emily Hills, a neuroscientist and

researcher who has studied how

230

00:12:49,099 --> 00:12:52,909

our dopamine system is affected by

everything from hormonal contraceptives

231

00:12:52,909 --> 00:12:54,829

to endocrine disrupting chemicals.

232

00:12:55,099 --> 00:12:58,969

She starts off by giving us a rundown of

the dopamine system and how our dopamine

233

00:12:58,969 --> 00:13:03,079

systems are heavily linked to estrogen

and therefore our menstrual cycles.

234

00:13:03,669 --> 00:13:07,359

Emily: so the dopamine system

is part of the brain's reward

235

00:13:07,449 --> 00:13:09,159

and motivational system.

236

00:13:09,379 --> 00:13:13,909

Dopamine neurons are primarily located

in the midbrain, which is in the

237

00:13:13,909 --> 00:13:18,409

back of our brains, and they send

projections throughout various regions

238

00:13:18,409 --> 00:13:23,839

of the brain, including the nucleus,

accumbens, striatum, and the prefrontal

239

00:13:23,839 --> 00:13:27,019

cortex, and dopamine does unique things.

240

00:13:27,024 --> 00:13:28,584

In different regions of the brain.

241

00:13:28,584 --> 00:13:32,574

So in the nucleus accumbens, it's

involved in processing primary

242

00:13:32,574 --> 00:13:37,074

rewards, and then that information is

integrated by our prefrontal cortex,

243

00:13:37,074 --> 00:13:41,664

which is our executive control system

to make decisions about when and how

244

00:13:41,664 --> 00:13:47,304

we seek rewards and exert control over

how intensely we seek those rewards.

245

00:13:47,634 --> 00:13:51,774

It's a very integrated system that

impacts pretty much everything that we

246

00:13:51,774 --> 00:13:54,894

do, learning and memory and motivation.

247

00:13:55,584 --> 00:13:59,874

Kelsy: One thing I have been

interested in is, of course, with

248

00:13:59,874 --> 00:14:01,524

an audience of primarily women.

249

00:14:02,094 --> 00:14:07,224

Are there any differences in how

the dopamine system affects the male

250

00:14:07,224 --> 00:14:08,364

brain compared to the female brain?

251

00:14:08,394 --> 00:14:10,434

Are there any sex differences

that you guys have seen?

252

00:14:10,464 --> 00:14:14,094

Emily: I would say in terms of

its basic function, it does work.

253

00:14:14,344 --> 00:14:16,924

The same way in males and females.

254

00:14:16,924 --> 00:14:22,984

But an important sex specific effect about

dopamine is that dopamine neurons are

255

00:14:22,984 --> 00:14:28,624

very estrogen sensitive, which means that

when they're exposed to estrogens, they

256

00:14:28,624 --> 00:14:34,444

fire a lot more rapidly, they release more

dopamine, and that means that women are.

257

00:14:34,959 --> 00:14:39,429

Kind of classically considered to be

more sensitive to rewarding stimuli,

258

00:14:39,879 --> 00:14:44,559

especially during phases of our cycle

where estrogens might be higher or

259

00:14:44,559 --> 00:14:47,949

if we're taking estrogen replacement

therapies or something like that.

260

00:14:48,309 --> 00:14:54,519

So we do see more rewards seeking

behavior in females compared to males.

261

00:14:55,104 --> 00:14:59,244

Kelsy: That's interesting because one

of the things that caused me to search

262

00:14:59,244 --> 00:15:03,774

out someone like you who's researching

this kind of thing and looking into

263

00:15:03,954 --> 00:15:08,154

hormonal effects on our dopamine

system, was my own experience, I guess

264

00:15:08,154 --> 00:15:12,264

with my own body and my own tracking

and just noticing, especially in that

265

00:15:12,264 --> 00:15:17,064

like early phase of my cycle, after

my period was over, I noticed, okay,

266

00:15:17,064 --> 00:15:18,474

I'm, you know, I'm ready to go again.

267

00:15:18,474 --> 00:15:19,074

I'm back at it.

268

00:15:19,074 --> 00:15:23,124

Let's get, you know, I was way more

motivated, way more disciplined, way more.

269

00:15:23,884 --> 00:15:27,874

Goal driven in that phase and I started

realizing, I was like, oh, hang on.

270

00:15:27,934 --> 00:15:29,974

This is kind of happening cyclically.

271

00:15:30,184 --> 00:15:35,434

So you mentioned a little bit how

estrogen and dopamine go hand in hand.

272

00:15:35,464 --> 00:15:38,704

Explain a little bit more about

that, especially in regards to

273

00:15:38,704 --> 00:15:42,454

like the menstrual cycle and how

different high hormone phases and

274

00:15:42,454 --> 00:15:47,404

low hormone phases affect our ability

to be more goal-driven or be more

275

00:15:47,404 --> 00:15:48,784

motivated or be more disciplined.

276

00:15:49,344 --> 00:15:49,644

Emily: Sure.

277

00:15:50,124 --> 00:15:54,624

So I study these things using

rats, and rats have what is

278

00:15:54,624 --> 00:15:56,304

called an EST extra cycle.

279

00:15:56,364 --> 00:15:59,994

It's very similar conceptually

to the human menstrual cycle,

280

00:16:00,324 --> 00:16:03,354

and the main difference basically

is that rats don't menstruate.

281

00:16:03,354 --> 00:16:07,704

They reabsorb their urine lining out

each cycle, and it only lasts four

282

00:16:07,704 --> 00:16:11,214

or five days, which is great for a

research context because then you

283

00:16:11,214 --> 00:16:14,964

can study things in four or five days

instead of over months and years.

284

00:16:14,964 --> 00:16:15,054

Right.

285

00:16:15,414 --> 00:16:16,199

But things that.

286

00:16:16,809 --> 00:16:21,759

Are pretty well accepted, I would say

at this point in science is that the.

287

00:16:22,119 --> 00:16:28,269

Estro cycle influences how much females

will seek out rewarding stimuli.

288

00:16:28,269 --> 00:16:33,519

So a rat that is in a high estrogen

phase of its cycle will drink a lot more

289

00:16:33,519 --> 00:16:39,219

alcohol, or it will emit like pleasure

calls more rapidly and intensely in

290

00:16:39,219 --> 00:16:44,109

response to what we would call like

dopaminergic or stimulant drugs.

291

00:16:44,109 --> 00:16:44,589

That's what.

292

00:16:44,734 --> 00:16:45,904

Researchers use.

293

00:16:45,904 --> 00:16:49,024

When we study reward, we use rewarding

stimuli, and the most rewarding

294

00:16:49,024 --> 00:16:54,064

stimuli tend to be dopaminergic

drugs like amphetamine or cocaine.

295

00:16:54,544 --> 00:16:58,984

And your cycle will impact the

way that females will seek out.

296

00:16:59,769 --> 00:17:02,499

Those rewards, how much

they will consume them.

297

00:17:02,799 --> 00:17:06,489

When we talk about motivation, I think

there's sort of two types of motivation.

298

00:17:06,489 --> 00:17:12,159

It would be essentially motivation in

maybe a positive context or motivation,

299

00:17:12,159 --> 00:17:17,648

which could be maladaptive, compulsive

reward seeking higher estrogen phases

300

00:17:17,648 --> 00:17:21,743

could be associated with compulsive

behaviors, depending on a lot of factors.

301

00:17:22,959 --> 00:17:24,128

Going into that.

302

00:17:24,589 --> 00:17:28,339

Speaker 2: Her more recent research

also focuses on the effects of

303

00:17:28,368 --> 00:17:32,449

EDCs or endocrine disrupting

chemicals on our brains and bodies.

304

00:17:33,034 --> 00:17:37,234

I know I can get so overwhelmed by

phrases like Forever chemicals and feel so

305

00:17:37,234 --> 00:17:41,284

discouraged from the amount of toxins in

our environment, in our Tupperware, in our

306

00:17:41,284 --> 00:17:45,544

cookware, in our skincare, in our makeup,

which is exactly why I wanted to have Dr.

307

00:17:45,544 --> 00:17:50,524

Emily on because I feel like having

a researcher on the podcast who is

308

00:17:50,704 --> 00:17:55,414

immersed in this field of study and

understanding how she approaches it in

309

00:17:55,414 --> 00:17:58,804

her own life would be very beneficial

for me, and hopefully you guys as well.

310

00:17:59,524 --> 00:18:00,064

So Dr.

311

00:18:00,064 --> 00:18:02,704

Emily gives us a basic overview

of what endocrine disrupting

312

00:18:02,704 --> 00:18:05,404

chemicals are, where they're found,

and what we can do about them.

313

00:18:05,694 --> 00:18:11,214

Emily: This is definitely where my

expertise has developed in its fullest,

314

00:18:11,274 --> 00:18:16,254

and that would be endocrine disrupting

chemicals or EDCs, which are defined as

315

00:18:16,254 --> 00:18:22,944

any exogenous, which means coming from

outside the body chemical that interferes

316

00:18:22,974 --> 00:18:25,134

with any aspect of hormone action.

317

00:18:25,404 --> 00:18:31,704

And then an important part of that is,

and results in an adverse health outcome.

318

00:18:31,884 --> 00:18:34,159

So two main components there is it's.

319

00:18:35,034 --> 00:18:38,424

Structurally similar to the body's

endogenous hormones, but it's

320

00:18:38,424 --> 00:18:39,924

coming from outside of the body.

321

00:18:40,254 --> 00:18:46,404

And then it is having an unintentional

impact on health in a negative way,

322

00:18:47,094 --> 00:18:50,004

which is why they're different from

something like hormonal birth control,

323

00:18:50,004 --> 00:18:54,174

which is yes, exogenous, but it's

designed to impact the endocrine

324

00:18:54,174 --> 00:18:55,774

system purposely, and it doesn't.

325

00:18:56,799 --> 00:18:57,399

Cause cancer.

326

00:18:57,879 --> 00:19:00,039

I think you also asked

where do they come from?

327

00:19:00,339 --> 00:19:00,549

Oh, yes.

328

00:19:00,549 --> 00:19:02,979

Just there are several main classes.

329

00:19:02,979 --> 00:19:06,519

If there's the Bisphenols,

the Phthalates, perfluorinated

330

00:19:06,519 --> 00:19:10,749

chemicals, or PFAS, which have been

popularized as quote unquote forever.

331

00:19:10,749 --> 00:19:15,639

Chemicals, parabens, and flame retardants.

332

00:19:16,374 --> 00:19:19,104

Our five major classes of BDCs.

333

00:19:19,104 --> 00:19:25,524

And then these chemicals are all either

estrogenic or antigenically active.

334

00:19:25,674 --> 00:19:30,264

They could be anti-estrogen or like

not pro estrogen isn't really a word.

335

00:19:30,264 --> 00:19:33,039

So they are either anti

estrogenic or androgenic or,

336

00:19:33,384 --> 00:19:35,064

or a combination of the two.

337

00:19:35,274 --> 00:19:38,514

And the reason that they are this way

is because they're structurally similar

338

00:19:38,514 --> 00:19:40,434

to our body's endogenous hormones.

339

00:19:40,974 --> 00:19:44,364

They can be found in plastics

personal care products.

340

00:19:44,364 --> 00:19:47,814

Phthalates are used as

emulsifiers and fragrance.

341

00:19:47,814 --> 00:19:51,354

Parabens are used in products

to increase shelf life and as

342

00:19:52,104 --> 00:19:55,764

antimicrobials biz fennels are

used in a lot of food packaging.

343

00:19:55,764 --> 00:19:57,264

They're also found in plastics.

344

00:19:57,684 --> 00:20:02,724

Perfluorinated chemicals or PFAS

are non-stick chemicals, which

345

00:20:02,724 --> 00:20:05,544

they could be found in non-stick

cookware, but they can also be found

346

00:20:05,544 --> 00:20:07,764

in clothing and fast food wrappers.

347

00:20:07,764 --> 00:20:11,484

Anything that's designed to be oil

slick, non-stick tends to have it.

348

00:20:11,964 --> 00:20:16,794

Flame retardants are found in a lot

of furniture, synthetic fibers and.

349

00:20:17,589 --> 00:20:21,639

To give that little overview real

quick, because I think it's important,

350

00:20:22,329 --> 00:20:26,439

Speaker 2: Of course, I had to ask her if

there were safe versus unsafe levels, and

351

00:20:26,439 --> 00:20:31,839

this is probably one of the coolest things

I learned from her this entire episode.

352

00:20:32,083 --> 00:20:37,153

Kelsy: Are there truly like safe

or unsafe levels of EDC exposure?

353

00:20:37,663 --> 00:20:40,063

Emily: No, that's the short answer, but.

354

00:20:40,778 --> 00:20:42,128

Also, yes.

355

00:20:42,338 --> 00:20:48,368

Something we've kinda been talking about

a lot in this episode is that the idea

356

00:20:48,368 --> 00:20:55,538

of sensitive periods of development

where what is harmful at one age or

357

00:20:55,538 --> 00:21:00,098

in one sex might not be harmful at a

different age or at a different sex,

358

00:21:00,098 --> 00:21:04,628

but saying something that might not

be at a harmful level for me would be.

359

00:21:05,213 --> 00:21:09,623

For a child, child, but going

to just like levels of exposure.

360

00:21:10,043 --> 00:21:13,523

The reason that these chemicals are

legal is because based on standard

361

00:21:13,643 --> 00:21:19,643

toxicological testing, they're not harmful

toxicologically, which means they don't

362

00:21:19,643 --> 00:21:26,933

kill cells, but those hazard assessments

don't really look at endocrine mediad

363

00:21:26,993 --> 00:21:31,673

outcomes, and they're designed for

like immediate outcomes, so they don't.

364

00:21:32,168 --> 00:21:37,658

Incorporate ideas about the long-term

effects of, okay, the exposure happened

365

00:21:37,928 --> 00:21:41,528

at this point in time and then years

and years later is when you see the

366

00:21:41,528 --> 00:21:43,508

development of an adverse health effect.

367

00:21:43,538 --> 00:21:45,218

That's very, that's canonical.

368

00:21:45,218 --> 00:21:51,428

EDC is this long latency period between

exposure and harmful health impacts,

369

00:21:51,488 --> 00:21:55,868

specifically because the latency tends

to be, you get exposed as developing

370

00:21:55,868 --> 00:21:58,478

fetus and then you start seeing impacts.

371

00:21:58,493 --> 00:22:01,673

Probably around puberty when you

start going through activational,

372

00:22:01,673 --> 00:22:05,063

sex differences into adulthood.

373

00:22:05,273 --> 00:22:08,783

So recommendations for

safe exposure levels.

374

00:22:08,783 --> 00:22:14,813

But those recommendations are mostly

for adults and they're for like direct

375

00:22:15,323 --> 00:22:18,713

toxicology, like toxicological outcomes.

376

00:22:19,223 --> 00:22:22,433

So I guess the answer

is yes and no based on.

377

00:22:22,868 --> 00:22:24,578

Our FDA health recommendations.

378

00:22:24,578 --> 00:22:25,328

Absolutely.

379

00:22:25,688 --> 00:22:30,128

And I'm not in a position to fully

challenge that except to say that

380

00:22:30,128 --> 00:22:34,448

there's all this research at levels

below the doses that have been tested

381

00:22:34,448 --> 00:22:41,258

for these chemicals that prove that

they are harmful below the levels

382

00:22:41,288 --> 00:22:42,968

that we're told they're safe at.

383

00:22:43,058 --> 00:22:48,128

And then another thing to think about

in that context is that all of these.

384

00:22:48,473 --> 00:22:52,373

Chemicals, the ones that we've tested,

which is only a small number of chemicals

385

00:22:52,373 --> 00:22:57,383

that are even available or being

produced, are being tested in isolation.

386

00:22:57,383 --> 00:23:01,043

So they're only looking at one

chemical, but we're not exposed

387

00:23:01,403 --> 00:23:03,413

to anything in isolation.

388

00:23:03,413 --> 00:23:03,623

So you.

389

00:23:04,598 --> 00:23:10,388

We do know for a fact that the chemicals

interact with each other and when they

390

00:23:10,388 --> 00:23:12,158

do, they can have compounding effects.

391

00:23:12,158 --> 00:23:15,938

So even if you are maybe being exposed

at a safe level to one thing, you also

392

00:23:15,938 --> 00:23:19,748

have six other chemicals at any one time.

393

00:23:19,748 --> 00:23:23,228

At any one product, which kind of

creates just like a physiological

394

00:23:23,228 --> 00:23:29,228

state of exposure that has long-term

physiological implications that aren't

395

00:23:29,228 --> 00:23:32,768

being addressed right now by our

current regulatory recommendations.

396

00:23:33,338 --> 00:23:35,738

Speaker 2: I was also so

excited to learn from Dr.

397

00:23:35,738 --> 00:23:38,348

Lisa Neff, our relationship researcher.

398

00:23:38,348 --> 00:23:41,438

She is out of the University of

Texas at Austin, just like Dr.

399

00:23:41,438 --> 00:23:43,628

Emily is, and she has.

400

00:23:44,123 --> 00:23:49,523

A lab at UT called the real

Lab or Relationship Experiences

401

00:23:49,523 --> 00:23:50,903

across the Lifespan Lab.

402

00:23:50,903 --> 00:23:56,573

So I was so excited for our conversation

together, and you can just tell she

403

00:23:56,573 --> 00:24:00,053

is a wonderful educator, a wonderful

professor, a wonderful researcher, a

404

00:24:00,053 --> 00:24:06,263

wonderful human by how she dives into how

we can better our romantic relationships

405

00:24:06,503 --> 00:24:10,373

through communication and how we

handle just different life stressors.

406

00:24:11,408 --> 00:24:14,858

She knew the podcast was historically

focused on health and wellness.

407

00:24:14,888 --> 00:24:17,708

So it was her idea to open with

the research on how quality

408

00:24:17,708 --> 00:24:21,038

relationships actually affect our

physical health and wellbeing.

409

00:24:21,308 --> 00:24:24,878

And the study she mentions is one

where my jaw was on the floor.

410

00:24:25,418 --> 00:24:29,163

Lisa: So research shows that

our social relationships both.

411

00:24:29,843 --> 00:24:31,343

Friends, romantic.

412

00:24:31,343 --> 00:24:35,093

All those social network members

have profound impacts on both

413

00:24:35,093 --> 00:24:36,983

our mental and physical health.

414

00:24:36,983 --> 00:24:39,413

So I'll start with our

emotional wellbeing.

415

00:24:39,833 --> 00:24:44,663

Research shows that if you ask people

how satisfied you are in life, the

416

00:24:44,663 --> 00:24:47,513

way people answer that question

is by figuring out how satisfied

417

00:24:47,513 --> 00:24:48,743

are they in their relationships.

418

00:24:48,803 --> 00:24:52,703

Relationships matter more than work than

hobbies, than all those other things.

419

00:24:52,703 --> 00:24:56,813

It is the strongest predictor of

life satisfaction and interestingly.

420

00:24:57,158 --> 00:25:01,598

When you look at adult relationships,

generally the romantic relationship

421

00:25:02,108 --> 00:25:03,368

sort of is on the pedestal.

422

00:25:03,368 --> 00:25:06,068

It is one of the most important

relationships that people have

423

00:25:06,068 --> 00:25:09,428

in adulthood, be it married or

cohabiting, whatever that looks like.

424

00:25:09,938 --> 00:25:15,578

And research has shown that marital

satisfaction and its association

425

00:25:15,578 --> 00:25:19,688

with life satisfaction has gotten

stronger over the past 40 years.

426

00:25:19,868 --> 00:25:23,468

Meaning that our happiness in our

marriage matters more to our wellbeing

427

00:25:23,468 --> 00:25:25,388

today than it did even 40 years ago.

428

00:25:26,093 --> 00:25:29,693

But it doesn't just influence

our mental health, it influences

429

00:25:29,693 --> 00:25:31,343

our physical health as well.

430

00:25:31,343 --> 00:25:31,853

So there's.

431

00:25:32,513 --> 00:25:38,603

A lot of research on all the ways our

relationships can both benefit us and

432

00:25:38,603 --> 00:25:40,373

get under the skin and cause problems.

433

00:25:40,373 --> 00:25:45,563

For us to just give a couple of broad

examples, A few years ago some researchers

434

00:25:45,563 --> 00:25:51,263

did a meta-analysis and all that is, is

they aggregated findings from a whole

435

00:25:51,293 --> 00:25:55,433

bunch of different studies that had

been conducted looking at predictors

436

00:25:55,433 --> 00:25:57,323

of mortality, and they were looking at.

437

00:25:57,683 --> 00:25:59,093

All the things that have been studied.

438

00:25:59,093 --> 00:26:03,443

So they were looking at, you know,

smoking behaviors and physical inactivity

439

00:26:03,743 --> 00:26:07,613

and air pollution, you know, all

these different factors we know can

440

00:26:07,673 --> 00:26:09,323

have health consequences for people.

441

00:26:09,563 --> 00:26:12,293

And they were also looking

at social relationships.

442

00:26:12,743 --> 00:26:16,973

And what they found in this massive

summary of the literature was that the

443

00:26:16,973 --> 00:26:19,103

quality of our social relationships.

444

00:26:19,808 --> 00:26:23,018

Mattered more than all the

other factors they studied.

445

00:26:23,228 --> 00:26:28,838

So people who had at least adequate

social relationships were 50% more

446

00:26:28,838 --> 00:26:32,948

likely to still be alive at the end of

the study compared to people who didn't.

447

00:26:33,188 --> 00:26:37,568

And the strength of that effect of

social relationships on wellbeing was

448

00:26:37,568 --> 00:26:41,738

stronger than things like physical

activity, inactivity and obesity,

449

00:26:41,738 --> 00:26:43,208

and those things that we know matter.

450

00:26:43,478 --> 00:26:47,978

So this suggests that our health, our

relationships matter a lot for our health.

451

00:26:48,698 --> 00:26:52,868

However, we have to make sure that

those relationships are good, right?

452

00:26:52,868 --> 00:26:57,308

We know that not all relationships

are the same, and a toxic relationship

453

00:26:57,338 --> 00:27:00,338

or a really hostile relationship

can really have some important

454

00:27:00,338 --> 00:27:01,928

health consequences for us as well.

455

00:27:02,318 --> 00:27:07,508

So in a great set of studies that was

done, uh, by Janice Key quote, Glaser

456

00:27:07,508 --> 00:27:11,588

at Ohio State, a number of years ago,

they did work where they basically

457

00:27:11,588 --> 00:27:14,333

took this device, you could think of

it as like the size of a smartphone.

458

00:27:15,353 --> 00:27:18,833

You put it on the forearm of people

and it created eight little blisters,

459

00:27:18,893 --> 00:27:20,963

so they actually wounded participants.

460

00:27:21,563 --> 00:27:25,853

They then had these participants who

were couples talk about important

461

00:27:25,853 --> 00:27:30,053

issues in their marriage, and they

coded those conversations for the

462

00:27:30,053 --> 00:27:31,793

quality of that communication.

463

00:27:31,793 --> 00:27:34,283

How well were couples

talking about their problems?

464

00:27:34,288 --> 00:27:38,063

Were they using constructive

positive forms of communication,

465

00:27:38,063 --> 00:27:41,123

or were they using more hostile

critical forms of communication?

466

00:27:42,068 --> 00:27:46,748

What they found was that the wounds,

those blisters, they created, the wounds

467

00:27:46,748 --> 00:27:51,608

of the people who used more hostile

communication with their partner healed

468

00:27:52,058 --> 00:27:57,878

40% slower than the wounds of the

people who had more constructive forms

469

00:27:57,878 --> 00:28:00,968

of communication, which suggests the

quality of our relationship matters.

470

00:28:00,968 --> 00:28:03,668

It's not just being in a

relationship, being in a high

471

00:28:03,668 --> 00:28:06,068

quality relationship that can have.

472

00:28:06,503 --> 00:28:09,953

Beneficial effects for our immune

functioning and being in a negative

473

00:28:09,953 --> 00:28:12,533

relationship can have harmful

effects on our immune functioning.

474

00:28:12,683 --> 00:28:15,653

Speaker 2: Her primary research

focuses how everyday life stressors

475

00:28:15,653 --> 00:28:19,073

affect our relationships, and she

gives such a wonderful explanation

476

00:28:19,343 --> 00:28:23,333

on how stressors like traffic or a

big meeting at work can spill over

477

00:28:23,333 --> 00:28:25,133

into our romantic relationships.

478

00:28:25,958 --> 00:28:26,378

Kelsy: So.

479

00:28:26,963 --> 00:28:27,683

Something

480

00:28:27,713 --> 00:28:31,523

Lisa: that I think people really need

to keep in mind and you know, when you

481

00:28:31,523 --> 00:28:34,673

hear about what does it take to keep a

relationship strong people are often,

482

00:28:34,673 --> 00:28:38,663

like, as I said earlier, communication

and gratitude and all these things, but

483

00:28:38,663 --> 00:28:43,823

we're not thinking about our broader

life circumstances that all of those

484

00:28:43,823 --> 00:28:45,653

stressors we face outside the home.

485

00:28:45,653 --> 00:28:45,713

So.

486

00:28:46,553 --> 00:28:48,503

Those stressors we have at work.

487

00:28:48,683 --> 00:28:50,723

Maybe it's caring for aging parents.

488

00:28:50,753 --> 00:28:52,793

Maybe it's a fight we have with a friend.

489

00:28:53,093 --> 00:28:56,663

Maybe it's just getting stuck

in a horrible Austin traffic.

490

00:28:56,663 --> 00:28:57,023

You know what?

491

00:28:57,023 --> 00:29:02,513

Whatever that stressor is, those stressors

change our, our mood, our wellbeing,

492

00:29:02,513 --> 00:29:05,783

and we take that home with us and it

spills over into our relationship.

493

00:29:05,783 --> 00:29:09,263

It's a process known as stress spillover,

that stressors we experience outside

494

00:29:09,263 --> 00:29:13,823

the home, spill over and affect the way

we think and behave inside the home.

495

00:29:14,798 --> 00:29:18,068

I'll talk a little bit first about

the way stressors affect us and

496

00:29:18,068 --> 00:29:21,368

then I can break it down between

like bigger and daily hassles.

497

00:29:21,518 --> 00:29:26,888

But I've done a lot of work on

all the ways stress can interfere

498

00:29:27,068 --> 00:29:29,258

with constructive relationships.

499

00:29:29,288 --> 00:29:35,078

And basically what stress does is

first it gives us more problems in the

500

00:29:35,078 --> 00:29:36,878

relationship that we have to cope with.

501

00:29:37,328 --> 00:29:41,468

And second and independently it

hinders our ability to cope with

502

00:29:41,468 --> 00:29:43,118

any problems that do crop up.

503

00:29:43,868 --> 00:29:45,128

In an adaptive fashion.

504

00:29:45,128 --> 00:29:47,138

And so let me give

examples of both of those.

505

00:29:47,738 --> 00:29:51,458

First, stress gives us more problems

to deal with in the relationship.

506

00:29:52,088 --> 00:29:54,878

What the research shows is

that, you know, we all know we

507

00:29:54,878 --> 00:29:56,168

only have 24 hours in the day.

508

00:29:56,348 --> 00:29:58,298

That is a reality that we all face.

509

00:29:58,628 --> 00:30:03,968

And so every minute that you spend

coping with your stressors is a minute.

510

00:30:04,028 --> 00:30:06,128

You're not spending

nurturing the relationship.

511

00:30:06,668 --> 00:30:11,558

When partners are coping with more work

stress, more life stressors, whatever, you

512

00:30:11,558 --> 00:30:15,728

know, financial stressors, whatever the

stressors may be, they're often spending

513

00:30:15,728 --> 00:30:18,248

less time building that emotional capital.

514

00:30:18,248 --> 00:30:20,918

They're not engaging in

those nurturing activities.

515

00:30:21,248 --> 00:30:25,958

People who have more stress report,

having less time with their partner, and

516

00:30:25,958 --> 00:30:27,578

again, we only have 24 hours in the day.

517

00:30:27,578 --> 00:30:29,978

If you're working late, that is

time you're not spending with your

518

00:30:29,978 --> 00:30:33,938

partner, and they report that the

limited time they do have with

519

00:30:33,938 --> 00:30:35,683

their partner is less satisfying.

520

00:30:36,563 --> 00:30:40,403

Instead of going on that date

night or doing those things

521

00:30:40,403 --> 00:30:41,543

to nurture the relationship.

522

00:30:41,543 --> 00:30:44,453

When you're faced with a lot of stress,

often the time you're sharing with your

523

00:30:44,453 --> 00:30:46,643

partner is coping with the stress, right?

524

00:30:46,643 --> 00:30:49,583

If you have financial difficulties, you're

talking about how to work through that.

525

00:30:49,583 --> 00:30:51,383

You're not going on a date

night with each other.

526

00:30:51,803 --> 00:30:56,243

And so what happens when people are

more stressed is they start to feel a

527

00:30:56,243 --> 00:30:58,373

little bit more emotionally disconnected.

528

00:30:58,778 --> 00:31:02,378

I also have research that shows they're

physically disconnected as well.

529

00:31:02,618 --> 00:31:05,078

This was a study of newlyweds,

and again, newlyweds.

530

00:31:05,078 --> 00:31:06,308

They're in the early phases.

531

00:31:06,308 --> 00:31:09,068

Everything's usually pretty

unicorns and rainbows.

532

00:31:09,458 --> 00:31:15,698

But uh, I found that even in newlyweds on

days when they had just one stressor, they

533

00:31:15,698 --> 00:31:18,848

were less likely to engage in physical

intimacy with their partner compared to

534

00:31:18,848 --> 00:31:20,408

days when they didn't have any stress.

535

00:31:20,558 --> 00:31:24,548

So it interferes with that kind of

connection that we have with our partner.

536

00:31:25,358 --> 00:31:31,988

In addition to just creating more of that

disconnect, when we're stressed, we have

537

00:31:32,018 --> 00:31:36,308

more difficulty addressing the problems

that do crop up in our relationship.

538

00:31:36,398 --> 00:31:40,898

If the limited time we have with our

partner has to be spent coping with the

539

00:31:40,898 --> 00:31:42,758

stressors, well then maybe we'll be okay.

540

00:31:42,758 --> 00:31:47,738

If we can use good communication, right,

we can effectively talk through conflict,

541

00:31:47,738 --> 00:31:49,148

we can effectively support each other.

542

00:31:49,808 --> 00:31:51,638

Stress interferes with all of that.

543

00:31:52,028 --> 00:31:55,118

So one thing stress does, I can

sort of walk through a sequence

544

00:31:55,118 --> 00:31:57,128

of events when we're stressed.

545

00:31:57,338 --> 00:32:00,428

You can think about it as a, it's

a filter in how we view the world.

546

00:32:00,458 --> 00:32:02,888

You know, think about when you're

really stressed out, there's

547

00:32:02,888 --> 00:32:04,268

sort of a cloud hanging over you.

548

00:32:04,328 --> 00:32:07,508

There's a negativity and that

filter comes home with us.

549

00:32:07,748 --> 00:32:13,058

So we found in our research that even

among newlyweds who generally see

550

00:32:13,058 --> 00:32:15,878

the best in their partner, they're

more likely to focus on the good

551

00:32:15,878 --> 00:32:18,338

and downplay the minor negatives.

552

00:32:18,908 --> 00:32:23,738

When they're stressed, partners

are more likely to focus on each

553

00:32:23,738 --> 00:32:27,248

other's negative qualities and less

so on their positive qualities.

554

00:32:27,518 --> 00:32:32,558

So if I'm stressed out, I am much more

likely to notice that my partner didn't

555

00:32:32,558 --> 00:32:36,878

unload the dishwasher and not to notice

the other good things they did that day.

556

00:32:36,908 --> 00:32:40,358

So when we're stressed, sort of

just colors the way we see things

557

00:32:40,358 --> 00:32:44,288

and negativity stands out more,

once we notice that negativity.

558

00:32:45,083 --> 00:32:48,893

If we're stressed, we're more likely

to blame our partner for it as opposed

559

00:32:48,893 --> 00:32:50,273

to give them the benefit of the doubt.

560

00:32:50,543 --> 00:32:56,483

Normally, happy couples when their partner

messes up, they have a grace, right?

561

00:32:56,483 --> 00:32:59,183

They're more likely to be like,

okay, you said you were gonna

562

00:32:59,183 --> 00:33:00,323

do this, Aaron, you didn't.

563

00:33:00,383 --> 00:33:01,973

I know you've got a lot going on.

564

00:33:02,213 --> 00:33:03,683

I know this wasn't intentional.

565

00:33:03,713 --> 00:33:04,493

We'll deal with it.

566

00:33:04,943 --> 00:33:07,883

Versus if I'm stressed,

I'm more likely to think.

567

00:33:08,363 --> 00:33:10,163

You said you were gonna do

this errand, you didn't.

568

00:33:10,223 --> 00:33:11,993

You're an insensitive jerk, right?

569

00:33:11,993 --> 00:33:13,103

You did not pull your weight.

570

00:33:13,103 --> 00:33:16,943

Today, we're more likely to have that

more blaming interpretation of why

571

00:33:16,943 --> 00:33:18,563

they engage in that negative behavior.

572

00:33:19,283 --> 00:33:22,943

And when we try to talk to our

partner about it, we're more

573

00:33:22,943 --> 00:33:24,503

hostile in our communication, right?

574

00:33:24,503 --> 00:33:27,143

If we're already feeling, I've

noticed these negative things more,

575

00:33:27,143 --> 00:33:28,463

I'm blaming you more for them.

576

00:33:28,673 --> 00:33:32,273

I'm less constructive in talking

through those problems with my partner.

577

00:33:32,483 --> 00:33:35,063

When we do sit down to try

to talk through those issues.

578

00:33:35,708 --> 00:33:40,418

And just to really, the cherry on

top of this bad Sunday is we also

579

00:33:40,448 --> 00:33:43,358

become worse at being a support

provider when we're stressed.

580

00:33:43,358 --> 00:33:45,998

So if we go back to that, you

know, what does it take to

581

00:33:45,998 --> 00:33:47,528

be a good support provider?

582

00:33:47,828 --> 00:33:49,718

You have to notice your

partner needs support.

583

00:33:50,228 --> 00:33:55,328

If I'm stressed, I tend to become more

self-focused as opposed to other focused.

584

00:33:55,628 --> 00:34:00,038

So I am less likely to pick up on the

cues that my partner wants support.

585

00:34:00,713 --> 00:34:03,803

Let's say my partner's very direct

and they're like, Hey, I need support

586

00:34:03,803 --> 00:34:05,723

right now, so I know they want support.

587

00:34:06,173 --> 00:34:10,072

Our research also shows that if

I am stressed, even when I know

588

00:34:10,072 --> 00:34:12,683

my partner wants support, I'm

less likely to give it, right?

589

00:34:12,683 --> 00:34:16,402

I might feel overwhelmed, like

I don't have any resources to

590

00:34:16,402 --> 00:34:19,583

give, so I'm just less likely to

provide support in that moment.

591

00:34:20,063 --> 00:34:24,503

And if I do dig deep and try hard

to give that support, the support

592

00:34:24,503 --> 00:34:26,213

I give is usually of lower quality.

593

00:34:27,053 --> 00:34:32,123

It can really interfere with all these

levels of what it takes to keep your

594

00:34:32,123 --> 00:34:33,893

relationship happy and strong over time.

595

00:34:33,893 --> 00:34:36,713

So stress can be really

damaging to a relationship.

596

00:34:37,342 --> 00:34:40,402

Speaker 2: We pivoted a bit from

our typical health and wellness

597

00:34:40,402 --> 00:34:44,033

content to bring on a guest who is

an expert in, let's say, financial

598

00:34:44,033 --> 00:34:47,393

health and wellness, both when it

comes to personal finance and travel.

599

00:34:47,813 --> 00:34:50,422

Katie's a certified credit counselor

and writer for bank rate, so she

600

00:34:50,422 --> 00:34:53,513

knows a thing or two about money,

habits and, and how to approach

601

00:34:53,572 --> 00:34:56,092

money basics specifically as women.

602

00:34:56,393 --> 00:34:59,783

I love this next clip where she shares

some insight into how women should

603

00:34:59,928 --> 00:35:03,688

approach finances a bit differently

based on our own strengths and values.

604

00:35:04,683 --> 00:35:05,373

Katie: Oh my gosh.

605

00:35:05,373 --> 00:35:05,763

Yeah.

606

00:35:05,823 --> 00:35:09,033

We talk about standards that were

set by men, like two examples that

607

00:35:09,033 --> 00:35:10,503

come to mind are the fact that.

608

00:35:11,118 --> 00:35:14,658

The AC temperature in an office is

usually based on like an older man.

609

00:35:15,438 --> 00:35:18,648

And the second thing I'm thinking

of is how seat belts were

610

00:35:18,648 --> 00:35:20,388

designed to work with a man.

611

00:35:20,748 --> 00:35:25,278

And in a lot of ways, I think that

money guidance was also driven by men.

612

00:35:25,548 --> 00:35:29,508

I'm thinking specifically of

like Dave Ramsey and those

613

00:35:29,508 --> 00:35:31,668

mindsets are not necessarily.

614

00:35:32,013 --> 00:35:35,643

The best, nor are they the ones

that are most helpful for women.

615

00:35:35,643 --> 00:35:37,953

Women have different things

we wanna spend our money on.

616

00:35:38,163 --> 00:35:40,503

We're smarter at making certain decisions.

617

00:35:40,533 --> 00:35:44,913

For example, the idea that you shouldn't

have any debt, in my mind is an outdated

618

00:35:44,913 --> 00:35:47,253

way of thinking, like especially women.

619

00:35:47,253 --> 00:35:50,553

Depending on where you come

from, debt can be the tool that

620

00:35:50,553 --> 00:35:51,633

takes you to the next level.

621

00:35:51,948 --> 00:35:53,298

Not talking about credit card debt.

622

00:35:53,298 --> 00:35:57,828

I'm talking about like if you need debt

to elevate your education levels or

623

00:35:57,828 --> 00:36:00,348

your your wealth to start a business.

624

00:36:00,348 --> 00:36:02,148

Like those things benefit women.

625

00:36:02,178 --> 00:36:05,598

And I also don't prescribe

too total deprivation.

626

00:36:05,598 --> 00:36:10,428

I think that it's good to

want to treat yourself or.

627

00:36:11,013 --> 00:36:12,843

Add joy to your life

for your friend's life.

628

00:36:12,843 --> 00:36:13,563

Like you're saying.

629

00:36:13,563 --> 00:36:16,173

It's more about figuring out

how that fits in your budget.

630

00:36:16,173 --> 00:36:20,253

So anyway, I think there is a take

on money that women can have that's

631

00:36:20,313 --> 00:36:22,713

much more helpful to our finances.

632

00:36:22,803 --> 00:36:25,893

Speaker 2: She also shares things we

might need a closet clean out when it

633

00:36:25,893 --> 00:36:28,623

comes to our mindsets around finances.

634

00:36:29,183 --> 00:36:34,013

Kelsy: Are there certain mindsets or money

habits that we should closet clean out in

635

00:36:34,013 --> 00:36:36,653

2026 and sort of shed in this new year?

636

00:36:37,433 --> 00:36:38,063

Katie: Yes.

637

00:36:38,333 --> 00:36:42,413

I like this idea too because it's

not about doing more, adding this

638

00:36:42,413 --> 00:36:46,343

thing to your list, it's more about

just slightly tweaking your habits.

639

00:36:46,733 --> 00:36:50,753

One of the things I write about a lot

at Bankrate and probably 'cause I'm

640

00:36:50,753 --> 00:36:52,643

so guilty of it, is impulse shopping.

641

00:36:53,093 --> 00:36:54,833

You're scrolling on social media.

642

00:36:54,833 --> 00:36:58,943

You see this really cute set that

an influencer's wearing and you just

643

00:36:58,943 --> 00:37:02,723

need it right then, or I thrift a

lot and it's really easy to have the

644

00:37:02,723 --> 00:37:05,243

impulse mindset when you're thrifting

because you think like, if I don't

645

00:37:05,243 --> 00:37:06,623

get it today, it's gonna be gone.

646

00:37:07,058 --> 00:37:11,858

But if you do that for a $50 vintage

jacket every month, like, okay,

647

00:37:11,858 --> 00:37:14,288

now you don't need another jacket.

648

00:37:14,288 --> 00:37:15,428

Like there will always be more.

649

00:37:15,698 --> 00:37:20,468

Two ways that I prevent this are the wait

24 hours rule, which is like, I can always

650

00:37:20,468 --> 00:37:21,818

go back tomorrow if you really want it.

651

00:37:22,058 --> 00:37:24,488

It will still be on Etsy in 24 hours.

652

00:37:24,488 --> 00:37:27,248

That lets you look at your budget,

look at your closet, make sure

653

00:37:27,248 --> 00:37:28,898

it's like actually a good choice.

654

00:37:29,258 --> 00:37:30,638

And this could include a trip.

655

00:37:31,193 --> 00:37:32,783

Or an experience too, by the way.

656

00:37:32,783 --> 00:37:34,673

This isn't just like a

piece of clothing, right?

657

00:37:34,823 --> 00:37:37,943

And then also to create

friction between that purchase.

658

00:37:37,943 --> 00:37:41,393

And so what I mean is like, it's not

as easy as just having your credit

659

00:37:41,393 --> 00:37:44,123

card information saved on TikTok

shop, and you're like, perfect.

660

00:37:44,123 --> 00:37:45,203

Add to cart milk.

661

00:37:45,443 --> 00:37:48,833

Or like the Amazon app, or, my

gosh, I had to delete the Amazon

662

00:37:48,833 --> 00:37:51,653

app for my phone 'cause it was

getting too easy to just order.

663

00:37:52,223 --> 00:37:54,533

Off of some, you know, I don't

even feel like going to the store.

664

00:37:54,533 --> 00:37:55,643

I just need more shampoo.

665

00:37:55,643 --> 00:37:59,453

But then I was just wasting money and

wasted cardboard and shipping, and

666

00:37:59,453 --> 00:38:01,043

so I deleted the app off my phone.

667

00:38:01,043 --> 00:38:05,303

But creating friction between

your wants and that purchase.

668

00:38:05,363 --> 00:38:08,783

But like I was saying, I'm not

a huge fan of total deprivation,

669

00:38:08,783 --> 00:38:10,733

so it's okay to want things.

670

00:38:10,853 --> 00:38:12,683

That's when that budgeting

act comes into play.

671

00:38:12,683 --> 00:38:15,473

Look at how much money you have,

how much is left for that month.

672

00:38:15,803 --> 00:38:19,253

Instead of shopping impulsively,

you can shop strategically.

673

00:38:20,063 --> 00:38:23,633

Another habit that I think we

could stand to break is carrying

674

00:38:23,633 --> 00:38:24,833

a balance on our credit cards.

675

00:38:25,163 --> 00:38:29,033

This I thought was kind of

something everyone prescribed too.

676

00:38:29,093 --> 00:38:32,213

'cause I was taught this from an early

age, like always pay off your balances.

677

00:38:32,213 --> 00:38:32,303

But.

678

00:38:32,888 --> 00:38:37,358

In speaking with people at work and

in personal life, I have realized this

679

00:38:37,358 --> 00:38:39,308

isn't necessarily a universal idea.

680

00:38:39,308 --> 00:38:45,218

People will put vacations or lifestyle

purchases on a credit card and use

681

00:38:45,218 --> 00:38:47,378

it as a way to pay it off over time.

682

00:38:47,468 --> 00:38:52,568

But credit card interest is one of

the most expensive forms of debt.

683

00:38:52,598 --> 00:38:56,438

It's like 19% right now, which is actually

a little lower than it's been, but

684

00:38:56,438 --> 00:38:59,348

the highest card can have a 30% rate.

685

00:38:59,378 --> 00:39:00,278

And the thing about.

686

00:39:00,653 --> 00:39:02,543

Credit card interest is at it compounds.

687

00:39:02,543 --> 00:39:06,863

So if you pay a little bit in interest

today, tomorrow you're gonna pay a

688

00:39:06,863 --> 00:39:08,993

little bit more on top of your interest.

689

00:39:09,023 --> 00:39:10,763

It's just a dangerous game to play.

690

00:39:10,763 --> 00:39:16,043

So paying off your balance in full if

you can, should always be like number

691

00:39:16,043 --> 00:39:19,553

one priority when it comes to looking

at your money at the end of the month.

692

00:39:20,333 --> 00:39:23,123

And then a third habit I think

that we could stand to break is

693

00:39:23,123 --> 00:39:25,313

letting money drive your emotions.

694

00:39:25,673 --> 00:39:29,393

And I say this one with all the love

and grace because I used to have a lot

695

00:39:29,393 --> 00:39:33,893

of money anxiety, like when I would

check my money at the end of the month

696

00:39:33,953 --> 00:39:38,753

and say I spent a little too much,

or I didn't have enough left to save.

697

00:39:38,783 --> 00:39:44,303

I felt like weird guilt and anxiety

when really money is a lifelong

698

00:39:44,303 --> 00:39:48,773

practice, it takes time to be

good at it, but if you're feeling.

699

00:39:49,343 --> 00:39:53,543

You know, fearful or anxious about

it, you might be more inclined to

700

00:39:53,543 --> 00:39:55,703

impulse shop 'cause you're like,

I'll never get the hang of it.

701

00:39:55,703 --> 00:39:57,533

Let me just buy this thing

to make myself feel better.

702

00:39:57,683 --> 00:40:00,713

Or sometimes like loneliness

can drive purchases.

703

00:40:01,043 --> 00:40:04,643

And I would say overall, the more

that you can separate your emotions

704

00:40:04,643 --> 00:40:08,633

from money this year and just

approach it very rationally, like as

705

00:40:08,633 --> 00:40:10,433

a tool, nothing more, nothing less.

706

00:40:10,433 --> 00:40:12,203

It's not a reflection of your character.

707

00:40:12,548 --> 00:40:15,308

That will help you just have

more base around money and

708

00:40:15,308 --> 00:40:16,568

make better decisions with it.

709

00:40:16,758 --> 00:40:20,328

Speaker 2: Lastly, Katie was able to give

us some travel tips and tricks to make

710

00:40:20,328 --> 00:40:25,068

travel more achievable in 2026 and work

with our finances rather than feeling

711

00:40:25,128 --> 00:40:30,228

guilty about such an expensive purchase

when it comes to something like travel.

712

00:40:30,558 --> 00:40:33,528

Kelsy: What are some of those things that

you wish you knew when it came to travel?

713

00:40:34,008 --> 00:40:37,218

Katie: When I became a credit cards

writer, ironically, I learned so

714

00:40:37,218 --> 00:40:40,188

much about how to help myself in

my personal life when it comes

715

00:40:40,188 --> 00:40:44,718

to taking advantage of like free

credit card stuff, and I say this.

716

00:40:45,318 --> 00:40:49,038

With the caveat that you need

to be a responsible credit user,

717

00:40:49,038 --> 00:40:50,808

like don't carry a balance.

718

00:40:50,808 --> 00:40:54,438

I don't want you to ruin your credit score

for this, but for example, some of the

719

00:40:54,438 --> 00:41:00,438

best travel cards out there will give you

like 50 to a hundred thousand points as

720

00:41:00,438 --> 00:41:04,968

a welcome bonus when you get them, and

you have to reach them by spending like

721

00:41:05,298 --> 00:41:09,708

$4,000 in three months, which kind of

sounds like a lot, but if you look at your

722

00:41:09,708 --> 00:41:12,768

budget, it's usually pretty achievable

or you can time it with a big purchase.

723

00:41:13,173 --> 00:41:16,923

So I use these welcome

bonuses to pay for my trips.

724

00:41:17,313 --> 00:41:20,373

And what I mean by that is like,

for example, my fiance and I

725

00:41:20,373 --> 00:41:22,953

are planning a wedding, we're

gonna wanna go on a honeymoon.

726

00:41:23,013 --> 00:41:25,443

I just applied for one of these cards.

727

00:41:25,773 --> 00:41:30,633

I'm gonna use it to pay for some of

the down payments on my wedding stuff.

728

00:41:30,873 --> 00:41:32,883

Earn the welcome bonus,

which right now is.

729

00:41:33,183 --> 00:41:35,673

I'll even tell you it's

Capital One Venture Card.

730

00:41:35,673 --> 00:41:38,133

They're having a boosted

welcome bonus right now.

731

00:41:38,133 --> 00:41:43,353

So you get 75,000 points and you get

a $250 Capital One travel credit.

732

00:41:44,073 --> 00:41:48,873

And when you get that, by spending

$4,000 like that is gonna pay

733

00:41:48,873 --> 00:41:52,473

for honeymoon flights that will

pay for one of our hotel nights.

734

00:41:52,503 --> 00:41:52,863

You know?

735

00:41:53,283 --> 00:41:57,363

And otherwise, like in my early

twenties, ironically, I had less money.

736

00:41:57,783 --> 00:42:01,113

I was paying for all of this out

of pocket 'cause I didn't know.

737

00:42:01,323 --> 00:42:05,103

And so anyway, that's my advice is to

explore credit cards with welcome bonuses

738

00:42:05,373 --> 00:42:11,313

and then use a travel credit card for

all your other stuff too at bank rate.

739

00:42:11,313 --> 00:42:15,903

I have statistically found that

people prefer cashback cards.

740

00:42:15,933 --> 00:42:19,863

I genuinely think it's just easier

to understand you get this much

741

00:42:19,863 --> 00:42:23,553

dollar for this much spend, but

travel points actually tend to

742

00:42:23,553 --> 00:42:24,993

be worth more than cash back.

743

00:42:25,368 --> 00:42:29,538

It's so much more rewarding to

pay for a flight than to get

744

00:42:29,538 --> 00:42:31,548

like money back as a statement.

745

00:42:31,548 --> 00:42:32,568

Credit on your card.

746

00:42:32,928 --> 00:42:37,998

So use your capital card to pay for

groceries, to pay for your essentials,

747

00:42:37,998 --> 00:42:41,178

and then you can use that stash

of points to pay for your chips.

748

00:42:41,178 --> 00:42:44,538

So that's my biggest money tip

for young people that I wish I

749

00:42:44,538 --> 00:42:45,828

had known in my early twenties.

750

00:42:46,278 --> 00:42:49,938

And other tips would be to do

things like travel during the off

751

00:42:49,938 --> 00:42:53,118

season, live like a local, save

your money and do things like that.

752

00:42:53,598 --> 00:42:56,148

Speaker 2: We ended the festival by

bringing everything together with

753

00:42:56,148 --> 00:42:58,878

Aaron, who is a Certified Habit

coach, author, and the founder

754

00:42:58,908 --> 00:43:00,528

of the Habit Coach Professionals.

755

00:43:01,218 --> 00:43:06,318

I love the way she teaches about habits,

goals, behaviors, routines, and all of

756

00:43:06,318 --> 00:43:07,998

the behavioral science that goes into it.

757

00:43:08,538 --> 00:43:11,208

It will definitely be an episode

I listened to year after year.

758

00:43:11,208 --> 00:43:13,098

I'm very excited for her book to come out.

759

00:43:13,098 --> 00:43:16,368

She's also launching a newsletter

program that I'll leave the link

760

00:43:16,368 --> 00:43:17,958

below for that if you guys wanna join.

761

00:43:17,958 --> 00:43:19,008

I know I definitely will be.

762

00:43:19,278 --> 00:43:20,478

I've already joined her.

763

00:43:21,258 --> 00:43:25,968

Launch Ambassador program to help get

the word out because I really do feel

764

00:43:25,968 --> 00:43:31,428

like she educates about behaviors and

habits and routines in such a tangible

765

00:43:31,428 --> 00:43:35,148

way for a lot of us, just everyday people.

766

00:43:35,718 --> 00:43:38,268

So here's a little glimpse

into our conversation together.

767

00:43:39,423 --> 00:43:40,083

Kelsy: So I think there's.

768

00:43:40,458 --> 00:43:43,758

A little bit of a difference between

like goals and maybe our habits,

769

00:43:43,938 --> 00:43:45,348

but perhaps there shouldn't be.

770

00:43:45,348 --> 00:43:46,068

As I'll explain.

771

00:43:46,068 --> 00:43:48,528

So oftentimes people, there

are three levels of goals.

772

00:43:48,558 --> 00:43:51,108

If you've ever read Atomic Habits

by James Claire, he's talked about

773

00:43:51,108 --> 00:43:54,288

this, but there are outcome goals,

there are process goals, and then

774

00:43:54,288 --> 00:43:55,488

there are identity based goals.

775

00:43:55,758 --> 00:43:59,358

So most people, especially with their

New Year's resolution, set outcome goals.

776

00:43:59,658 --> 00:44:01,908

I wanna lose 25 pounds by X date.

777

00:44:02,118 --> 00:44:03,768

I wanna meditate more.

778

00:44:03,768 --> 00:44:05,328

I wanna feel better.

779

00:44:05,328 --> 00:44:09,198

They're kind of like these long

things that are out, not very much

780

00:44:09,198 --> 00:44:12,228

definition around them, and therefore

we don't have much control over them.

781

00:44:13,413 --> 00:44:15,093

Process goals are the next step.

782

00:44:15,093 --> 00:44:15,693

That's really good.

783

00:44:15,693 --> 00:44:17,793

Those are the actions that

are gonna actually get us to

784

00:44:17,793 --> 00:44:18,993

those outcomes that we want.

785

00:44:18,993 --> 00:44:22,323

So maybe I'm actually in the gym for

20 minutes doing strength training

786

00:44:22,323 --> 00:44:25,773

three times a week, or I'm reading 10

minutes every morning if I wanna be a

787

00:44:25,773 --> 00:44:29,433

better reader or writing whatever those

goals might be, meditating whatnot.

788

00:44:29,763 --> 00:44:31,113

Then there's the identity goals.

789

00:44:31,113 --> 00:44:33,213

It's like, who do I want to be?

790

00:44:33,213 --> 00:44:37,593

What is an innately feels like

me and the values I have and

791

00:44:37,593 --> 00:44:39,003

how I wanna live out my life?

792

00:44:39,063 --> 00:44:42,273

So digging deeper from that just

outcome based goal that most of us

793

00:44:42,273 --> 00:44:45,993

set into those process, and then even

identity goals are gonna help us stick

794

00:44:45,993 --> 00:44:48,273

longer when it comes into habits.

795

00:44:48,603 --> 00:44:53,823

And the behaviors for those behavior

based goals, behavior's, very complex.

796

00:44:54,483 --> 00:44:57,063

Most people don't realize it, but

it's not just like, I wanna do this

797

00:44:57,063 --> 00:44:58,148

thing, so I'm gonna do this thing.

798

00:44:58,848 --> 00:45:02,688

There are a variety of things that

go into how we make decisions, and

799

00:45:02,688 --> 00:45:05,898

then what makes behaviors happen,

and then how does a behavior actually

800

00:45:05,898 --> 00:45:07,938

get repeated and turned into a habit.

801

00:45:08,208 --> 00:45:11,568

So if we are looking to build better

habits, we need to look into things

802

00:45:11,568 --> 00:45:13,608

like what is activating our habits?

803

00:45:13,998 --> 00:45:17,808

So both internally, so things

like thoughts, feelings, emotions,

804

00:45:17,808 --> 00:45:22,248

sensations, and externally, all of the

dings and pings in our environment.

805

00:45:22,248 --> 00:45:25,158

Smells, you know, if you always drive

by a drive through and you always

806

00:45:25,158 --> 00:45:28,728

smell the burger and fries, are

you activated to go get fast food?

807

00:45:28,998 --> 00:45:31,758

Um, the people you see in your

environment, friends, family,

808

00:45:31,758 --> 00:45:35,658

coworkers at home, at work, wherever

you might be in your third space.

809

00:45:36,048 --> 00:45:38,208

And then just what's around

your home space, you know?

810

00:45:38,553 --> 00:45:41,253

Do you have healthy food sitting

out or is it junk food sitting out?

811

00:45:41,253 --> 00:45:44,613

Do you have things that are gonna

encourage you to be active or sit around?

812

00:45:44,883 --> 00:45:47,763

Do you have things that are gonna

encourage you to read, to meditate, to

813

00:45:47,763 --> 00:45:50,163

write, to be a good partner or a friend?

814

00:45:50,523 --> 00:45:53,763

Um, so those things in our

environment are super important

815

00:45:53,763 --> 00:45:55,053

to triggering the behaviors we do.

816

00:45:55,053 --> 00:45:58,533

We think we have free will, but

oftentimes it's these things in our

817

00:45:58,533 --> 00:46:01,923

environment within us and around us

that are triggering us to do things.

818

00:46:01,923 --> 00:46:03,933

So we need to take note of those things.

819

00:46:04,233 --> 00:46:05,853

We also need to have the ability.

820

00:46:06,528 --> 00:46:10,428

To do the behavior which people

think, you know, of course I can

821

00:46:10,458 --> 00:46:13,488

write every day, or of course I can

eat healthy, like I have the ability.

822

00:46:13,488 --> 00:46:17,688

But there are so many things that go

into ability, the knowledge to do it,

823

00:46:17,718 --> 00:46:21,498

the skills to do it, the resources

to be able to do it, but also our own

824

00:46:21,498 --> 00:46:23,358

perceived ability and self-efficacy.

825

00:46:23,928 --> 00:46:28,668

So do we have the confidence that we can

do this not just on like day one, when

826

00:46:28,668 --> 00:46:30,708

we're like super motivated in gung-ho.

827

00:46:31,098 --> 00:46:34,968

But on our worst possible day when

like shit has hit the fan and you

828

00:46:34,968 --> 00:46:37,278

know everything's going wrong, and

I still need to be able to take

829

00:46:37,278 --> 00:46:41,058

action and build this identity that

I want to have through my actions.

830

00:46:41,478 --> 00:46:45,498

I think the most overlooked one is we

need to have a rewarding experience.

831

00:46:45,708 --> 00:46:50,568

People often forget about this, but we

are wired for immediate gratification that

832

00:46:50,568 --> 00:46:55,218

is millennia of evolution, nudging us in

the direction of going towards whatever

833

00:46:55,218 --> 00:46:58,608

is gratifying immediately and rewarding

immediately and enjoyable immediately.

834

00:46:59,253 --> 00:47:03,183

And if we fight that, we're literally just

beating our head against the brick wall.

835

00:47:03,183 --> 00:47:05,493

So instead of fighting it,

why don't we work with it?

836

00:47:05,823 --> 00:47:09,633

So a lot of times the things that

are valuable to us and the changes

837

00:47:09,633 --> 00:47:11,403

we want to make, they're hard to do.

838

00:47:11,673 --> 00:47:13,023

They're unpleasant to do.

839

00:47:13,263 --> 00:47:16,953

And so how do we make those

more enjoyable and easier to do?

840

00:47:17,253 --> 00:47:20,763

And then we just have to have our

environments set up so that we can

841

00:47:20,763 --> 00:47:26,163

consistently repeat the things we want

to do or set up so we don't consistently

842

00:47:26,163 --> 00:47:27,993

repeat the things we don't want to do.

843

00:47:28,368 --> 00:47:31,668

And that's just, you know, a

summary and it gets very, very

844

00:47:31,668 --> 00:47:34,248

complex when you actually start

to assess those things and dig in.

845

00:47:34,248 --> 00:47:37,128

But that's what I would take note

as far as like building a habit.

846

00:47:37,158 --> 00:47:40,488

And then the goals we set should be more

focused towards those behavior-based

847

00:47:40,488 --> 00:47:44,388

goals and identity-based goals as

opposed to our outcome-based goals.

848

00:47:44,818 --> 00:47:48,478

Speaker 2: I'm so, so grateful to all of

our wonderful guests for chatting with

849

00:47:48,478 --> 00:47:52,318

us, teaching with us, and allowing us

to learn from their research knowledge

850

00:47:52,318 --> 00:47:56,278

and years and years of expertise,

whether clinical or in the lab.

851

00:47:56,818 --> 00:47:57,718

I had so much fun.

852

00:47:57,718 --> 00:47:59,428

I learned a lot, and I

hope you guys did too.

853

00:47:59,428 --> 00:48:03,028

I was so, so excited to be able to

share these conversations with you guys.

854

00:48:03,208 --> 00:48:08,938

So if you enjoy learning just as much as

I do, I hope you also learn so much from.

855

00:48:09,523 --> 00:48:12,043

Each of our wonderful women

that we've had on the podcast

856

00:48:12,043 --> 00:48:13,933

over the last four-ish weeks.

857

00:48:14,443 --> 00:48:18,493

I also just wanted to say a special thanks

to each of you guys for supporting and

858

00:48:18,493 --> 00:48:23,713

following along, listening and learning

along with me sharing these episodes.

859

00:48:23,713 --> 00:48:25,063

It means the world to me.

860

00:48:25,453 --> 00:48:28,813

I have seen a lot of growth over the last

six months and I have you guys to thank,

861

00:48:28,813 --> 00:48:32,923

so please let me know if there is ever

anything that you wanna hear more of.

862

00:48:32,953 --> 00:48:35,713

If you enjoy certain topics a little more.

863

00:48:35,713 --> 00:48:40,573

I am basing it based off the numbers

and a lot of the numbers have guided me

864

00:48:40,573 --> 00:48:43,813

towards different experts that I know

you guys are interested in learning

865

00:48:43,813 --> 00:48:46,063

from based on our past episodes.

866

00:48:46,093 --> 00:48:49,903

But if there's ever anything you guys

wanna learn about a little bit more or.

867

00:48:50,278 --> 00:48:54,058

Have me reach out to certain experts

in that field, please let me know.

868

00:48:54,148 --> 00:48:55,108

I would be happy to.

869

00:48:55,108 --> 00:48:57,688

I love having these conversations.

870

00:48:57,688 --> 00:49:00,268

I love being able to share them

with you guys, and I'm just

871

00:49:00,268 --> 00:49:02,038

grateful for all of your support.

872

00:49:02,038 --> 00:49:06,628

No matter if that's listening every

week, sharing an episode or subscribing,

873

00:49:06,628 --> 00:49:10,558

following along, leaving a review,

following along, liking posts on

874

00:49:10,558 --> 00:49:12,178

social media, that also helps as well.

875

00:49:12,178 --> 00:49:14,128

So I'm just very grateful for you guys.

876

00:49:14,158 --> 00:49:14,548

Thank you.

877

00:49:14,548 --> 00:49:19,048

I hope you are enjoying this podcast

just as much as I enjoy creating it.

878

00:49:19,543 --> 00:49:20,683

So that wraps up Coachella.

879

00:49:20,683 --> 00:49:24,133

I hope you guys enjoyed it and I

will see you guys again for our next

880

00:49:24,133 --> 00:49:25,603

episode on Wellness Fix the Pop.