Dr. Rustin Moore, Dean of The Ohio State College of Veterinary Medicine and author of the book "Unleashing the Bond: Harnessing the Benefits and Safeguarding the Risks of Human-Animal Interactions", joins us to discuss the importance of the human-animal bond and his upcoming book release. This book is for all audiences, and shares the science behind the bond as well as stories that highlight the important role animals have in our lives.

To pre-order, visit www.rustinmooredvm.com

Mentioned in this episode:

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Dr. G: Hi and welcome to

the Animal Welfare Junction.

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This is your host Dr.

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G and our music is written

and produced by Mike Sullivan.

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Today we have a repeat guest, Dean

of the Ohio State University College

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of Veterinary Medicine and now author

of the upcoming book, Unleashing the

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Bond, Harnessing the Benefits, and

Safeguarding the Risks of Human Animal

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Interactions, Dean Rustin Moore.

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Thank you so much for being here.

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Welcome to the Junction.

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Rustin Moore: Well, thank you so much

and thank you for inviting me back on.

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I appreciate it.

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Dr. G: No, anytime.

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So for anybody that has not,

because you, you were in one

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of our actual first episodes.

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So for anybody that has not listened

to that, can you give a little bit of

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a background on your story and kind of

what drove you to where you are today?

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Rustin Moore: Sure.

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Um, my name is Rustin Moore.

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I grew up in West Virginia and, uh,

came to veterinary school here in 1985

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at Ohio state and graduated in 1989.

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I did a one year internship at

the University of Georgia in

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large animal medicine and surgery.

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I came back here the following

year and did a four year combined

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equine surgery residency and PhD.

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I then went to Louisiana State University

School of Veterinary Medicine, was on

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faculty there for 12 years, and came

back here in 2006 as department chair

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of clinical sciences and held a number

of roles since that time, including,

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I'm in my 10th year as the dean.

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So, what got me here, I guess, is, uh,

you know, like all of us, we started

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out, uh, at a very young age wanting

to be a veterinarian, and I guess I'm

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an example, like many people, of where

you can go in veterinary medicine, it's

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endless in terms of the different career

paths that you can take, and, um, so,

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that's where I am today, and on top of

my real job, I've been writing a book.

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Dr. G: And is this the first

book that you have written?

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Rustin Moore: It's the first book that

I have written and, and self publishing.

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I have written chapters in books and

I've written lots of scientific articles.

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And I've done some creative

writing and stuff like that.

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But this is the first book that I have

written and published will be publishing.

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Uh, and it's sort of one of those

hybrid publishing where, um, I'm using a

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company and, but I'm self publishing it.

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Dr. G: So, you know, the human

animal bond, I feel like there's been

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more and more about it, everything

from one health to the importance

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of human animal interactions to

co housing and all of that stuff.

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So what would you say was your

drive behind writing this book?

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Rustin Moore: Well, I had done a TED

talk back in 2016, uh, called The Power

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of a Pet, and it's out on YouTube.

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And so back in late fall, I got

an email from the founder of this

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company called Manuscripts, saying,

I saw your TED talk, and I think

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you should turn this into a book.

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And I said, well, thank you very much.

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I don't have time.

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Uh, and I'm really not

the one to write this.

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And then I got another email from the

same person and essentially he said,

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I said, well, thank you so much again.

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I don't have time, blah, blah, blah.

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And then he convinces me to get on a

video remote virtual call with him.

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And I came away from that

agreeing to write the book.

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And the rest is history,

as they would say.

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But I will say, once I committed

to it, I have found it one of

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the most energizing things that

I've done in a long, long time.

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Um, just learning about the

bond more, even more so than I

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knew, and the science behind it.

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And there's so much research being done,

uh, just coming out every day on it.

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And then, the interviews with people.

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I've interviewed probably

over 70 people thus far.

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Um, and still have a few more to

do because as I go into the editing

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process, uh, in the next, uh,

start, uh, next month, and then

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that's the revision editing piece.

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I can still change things

and add some stories.

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So that I have found.

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So.

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It's so interesting and so compelling.

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There's, there's certain things that

I hear that are repeated messages,

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sometimes said different ways.

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It just points to me that the

bond is universal, but yet

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it's very individualistic.

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Um, you know, between a person and

their dog versus some other person

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and their dog or a person, the

same person and their other dog.

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Uh, it's just really, really profound.

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Dr. G: So who would you say is

your target audience for this book?

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Rustin Moore: Well, that's.

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You're right, asking the right questions.

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This one.

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So when I started this process, I was

asked the same thing by the company

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and I said, well, actually, it's.

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It's everyone.

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You know, it's not a textbook.

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So it's not, you know, for veterinarians

or veterinary students or whatever.

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There's stuff in there that I

think veterinarians and veterinary

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students and veterinary techs and

tech students and the whole health

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care team would find interesting

and perhaps informative and helpful.

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But it's also for human health

care workers, social workers.

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It's for just people who are animal

advocates, animal lovers, animal owners.

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When we talk a little bit about the

content, you'll see that there's a lot

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of things in it for just about anyone.

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And I would say even if you don't

have a pet or have never had a pet,

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There's probably something in it

interesting for you, uh, as well

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as the stories that people tell.

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Dr. G: I think, I like that you say, you

know, even though it's not a textbook,

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it's something good for veterinarians and

technicians and all that stuff, because

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I think that there has been a disconnect,

you know, when I was growing up.

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The, the bond between pet owners

and veterinarians was really strong.

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And I feel like we have

lost some of that over time.

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And I don't know if it's technology,

if it's advancement, like what kind of

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things are happening, but I feel like

there's a little bit of a disconnect

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between veterinarians and pet owners.

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And some of that could be just a lack of

truly, really understanding the importance

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of that human animal bond, right?

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Not seeing it as just.

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A person and their dog seeing

it as this human bringing in a

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member of their family for care.

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Rustin Moore: Yeah, no, I agree.

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And actually I was just talking

yesterday to one of our, um, associate

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deans, because I know I was doing

an interview, uh, over the weekend

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and someone asked me a question and

I said, I don't remember ever being

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taught anything about the human animal

bond ever, uh, in school or otherwise.

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So I asked her, I said, what's in our

curriculum around the human animal bond?

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And, you know, we don't

have much of anything.

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And so I imagine we will.

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But I think you might be right that,

you know, back, you know, 10, 20, 30

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years ago or longer, yes, there was,

there were bonds, but I don't think

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they were as intense as they are today.

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Um, and I don't know that back then that I

ever felt like a pet was a family member,

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which I certainly feel that today and as

do 95 percent of people who have a pet.

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So I think you're right that some of that

could be a lack of awareness, uh, about

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how the bond appears with given people.

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And it's not the same with everybody.

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Um,

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Dr. G: yeah, because we have talked

about and I believe that we touched

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on this before the that whole idea

mentality of if you cannot afford

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an animal, you should not have that.

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And that disregards that

human animal bond, right?

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Like this, that disregards the

importance of that, of that animal

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to that person and that person

to that animal because the animal

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doesn't care that the person doesn't

have money or, you know, even, even

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individuals experiencing homelessness.

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That, that dog still is bonded to them

and them to, you know, to that dog.

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Rustin Moore: Yeah, no, I agree

with, uh, completely with that.

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And, um, you know, and there's parts

of that in this book actually about

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the bond, whether it's with, uh, the

bond with, uh, those who are homeless

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or the bond with, um, with prisoners.

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I, or, or those who are incarcerated.

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I visited two, uh, prisons here in

Ohio and interviewed incarcerated

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men who are part of their family.

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Dog programs and their wildlife

rehabilitation programs and, you know,

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the bond is profound and universal,

regardless of people's background,

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their age, their mental capacity.

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Um, it's, it's just.

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This really, really, um, has,

has solidified that in my mind,

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even more so than, than before.

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Dr. G: So for individuals that

do not truly understand what

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the human animal bond is, how

would you explain that to them?

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Rustin Moore: Well, so the, to me,

the, the human animal bond and,

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and, you know, people refer to it

the bond, they refer to it as the,

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uh, connection or the interaction.

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It's, it's basically, I mean, not that

indifferent from say the bond that you

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may have with a family member or a child.

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Uh, so really.

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It's it's yes, there are emotions

associated with it, but there's

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also science associated with it.

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More and more data is coming out.

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So, for example, there's tremendous

positive benefits on people's health,

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physically, socially, behaviorally,

emotionally, mentally, psychologically.

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By interacting with a pet that doesn't

even, that doesn't even mean you have to

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own the pet, but just interaction with it.

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So things like just

petting it or stroking it.

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Uh, we in your body or our bodies,

we release chemicals, biochemicals,

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neurotransmitters like oxytocin

or dopamine, which are feel good

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or uplifting type of hormones.

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Um, and also our cortisol levels or,

uh, or stress hormone goes down, uh,

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heart rate goes down, blood pressure

comes down, uh, and there's so many

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other medical, um, benefits from it.

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But it's that, it's sort of an

emotional yet biochemical reaction,

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uh, in between us and the animal.

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And actually it's been shown

that some of these same, uh,

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things happen in the animal.

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Their oxytocin levels go up, their stress

levels go down, their heart rates start

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coming down, you know, and almost in

synchronous with, with, with the person.

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So, I don't know if that, you know, I

sort of talk about this in the beginning

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of the book, because a lot of times

people, I think, think of this as

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an emotional feel good relationship.

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And it is, but there's

so much more than that.

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And we even know that some people grieve

more when their animal passes than if a

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human family member passes, um, and and

I think 1 of the really important things.

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I mean, there's a lot of important things,

but trying to normalize the, the, the bond

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and that it's okay to grieve and it's okay

to celebrate, you know, a celebration of

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life or a memorial service or whatever.

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You know, I think.

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Years ago, people, if they, if they even

were willing to talk about it, they, you

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know, that about what they're, they're

going through as they lost an animal.

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A lot of people say, well, what's that?

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This is a dog.

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You know, what's the big deal?

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Well, trying to get the word out

that, no, it's not just a dog.

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You know, it's, it's, it's

like losing a family member.

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Dr. G: Yeah, one of the things, in one

of my animal law classes, they were

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discussing the topic, and I don't know if

it's in your book, but about court dogs.

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About how some places are using dogs

to, especially with children, that have

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to endure really difficult situations,

And they have found that these dogs

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make the child be at ease and be

able to testify their information.

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You know, we're talking about

really difficult cases, children

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that have been abused, assaulted.

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And, and these dogs just provide that

comfort to help them get through that.

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Rustin Moore: Yeah, absolutely.

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I cover that.

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There's a whole section on, it's sort of,

I'll say working dog, but that includes

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a lot of things, including emotional

support, therapy dogs, service dogs.

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But yes, there are a lot of places

have what are called facility dogs.

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Um, and so that could be in the courtroom,

that could be in a jail, that could be

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in, uh, a school, that could be in a

nursing home, um, for those very reasons,

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but, uh, yeah, and it just provides

a level of calmness, and it also, I

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think, provides a level of confidence.

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For particularly in in

vulnerable people like Children,

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Dr. G: one of my special

interests with animal animal

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cruelty and neglect is hoarders.

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Right.

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And I think that that's kind of

animal human animal bond gone too far.

218

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And I think that it is important

to understand the human animal bond

219

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when dealing with these individuals,

especially when you know they're not

220

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doing it maliciously they're doing it

because they can't help themselves.

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So is this one of the things

that we need to evaluate as far

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as protecting the animals from

humans and humans from animals.

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Rustin Moore: Yeah, I call

it the dark side of the bond.

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Uh, and I would say most of the, the,

the, the outcomes of the bond are

225

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very, very positive, but hoarding, uh,

domestic violence, child abuse, um,

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and even, you know, I was interviewing

a couple of people about dog fighting.

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And there is, you know, there's a

bond there between them and that dog.

228

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Now, it differs clearly from a pet, but

that to me is a bond that's gone too far.

229

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Way too far.

230

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You know, but even, we know that, you

know, and we know, and this isn't the

231

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dark side of the bond, but the bond

can sometimes be so strong that people

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will not do what's best for them,

they'll do what's best for the pet.

233

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And that's not a bad thing,

but it, you know, it could go

234

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too far in some situations.

235

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Dr. G: Yeah, I guess with that we're

talking about, you know, with like

236

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the homeless and people with lack

of funds that they will feed the dog

237

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before they will feed themselves.

238

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Right.

239

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And it's kind of you got to

take care of yourself so you

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can take care of your family.

241

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You know, it makes you think of the whole

put your mask, oxygen mask first and

242

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then put the mask on on everybody else.

243

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Rustin Moore: Yes.

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Dr. G: So of the I know that

you did a lot of interviews.

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Is there one particular interview

that really touched you as you were

246

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in your journey to write this book?

247

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Rustin Moore: Well, I would say every

interview I've had has touched me, moved

248

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me, and I would say in every interview,

at some point during the interview, I got

249

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chill bumps, and I'm not making that up.

250

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It's true.

251

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But one that comes to mind, because

I would have never, ever expected

252

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this, So I, the second prison

that I visited was, um, the, the

253

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Madison, uh, County or the Madison

Correctional Institute in London, Ohio.

254

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And one of the things I was, I

was at this particular facility.

255

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They gave me a little office to use and

they would bring, uh, both individually,

256

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either incarcerated men or sometimes

the staff members in for me to interview

257

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about this, these programs, the dog

programs, the wildlife programs.

258

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So, about the 4th person that came in,

came through the door, um, you know,

259

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probably, well, I know he's probably mid

forties, dark hair, thin, scruffy beard,

260

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and he had this huge smile on his face.

261

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And as soon as he came through the door,

he said, when I heard you were coming

262

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here, I was so hoping I could meet you.

263

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And I thought, hmm, how do I know you?

264

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Or, you know, I mean, I was just like,

you know, and I said, well, why is that?

265

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And he said, my daughter graduated

from your college a few years ago.

266

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And I said, Really?

267

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And I said, Who's that?

268

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And he told me the name.

269

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And I said, Oh, I know her.

270

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She's great.

271

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I said, She's from West

Virginia, where I'm from.

272

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And he's so what I learned from

that, not only about, I mean, the

273

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interview was incredible about the

bond and what this program meant

274

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to him and how it's changed him.

275

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But he grew up 20 miles

from where I grew up.

276

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Our high schools were rival high schools.

277

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Now he was nine years behind me.

278

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So nine years younger.

279

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Um, and so when I, when I left,

I actually, this person is a.

280

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As a Facebook friend, and so

I sent a private message and

281

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said, I just met your father.

282

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What an incredible interview and, um,

and so then after I wrote the story,

283

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I asked her if she would like to read

it and she said, yes, so I emailed

284

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it to her and then she, I don't know,

several days later, got back to me on

285

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Facebook and with a message and said,

Something about, oh, it, you know,

286

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it took me a while to get through it.

287

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It was so tear, tear jerking or

something like that in a positive way.

288

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And she then said, could I share

that with my grandmother, which

289

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would be her father's mother?

290

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And I said, absolutely go ahead.

291

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And so that's just shows

how small this world is.

292

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Um, and that was something

that was pretty moving to me.

293

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Dr. G: That, that's,

that is a great story.

294

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It, it actually gave me

chills listening to it.

295

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Um, so let's talk about the book

sections on your, on your book.

296

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Um, so I see that there's, as of this

time, there's six different sections.

297

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So the, let's go over the first section.

298

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It looks like it's more on like

history of the human animal bond.

299

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Rustin Moore: Yeah, it's, it's, it's the

history of domestication and how that

300

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has evolved, uh, there's a chapter on

pet humanization on, on consumer spending

301

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on, on pets and how much that is and on

what types of things about how society

302

00:18:27,419 --> 00:18:33,229

is really, you know, Demanding more,

more services, but also to demanding

303

00:18:33,239 --> 00:18:38,409

that there are more pet inclusive

facilities and pet inclusive amenities.

304

00:18:39,109 --> 00:18:40,759

So that's what that section is about.

305

00:18:42,199 --> 00:18:45,429

Dr. G: And then the second one is

about the science behind the bond.

306

00:18:46,199 --> 00:18:46,509

Rustin Moore: Yeah.

307

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So that, that starts the first chapter

in that section starts with the science

308

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and that goes to the research that's

been done and sort of the biochemical

309

00:18:56,914 --> 00:19:02,444

and, you know, other types of changes

that occur in one's body and how and

310

00:19:02,444 --> 00:19:08,864

why people benefit from it health

wise, physically, emotionally, etc.

311

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And, and then there are, you

know, there are a number of, um,

312

00:19:13,499 --> 00:19:17,489

chapters in there after that,

that sort of go into specifics.

313

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For example, it's been shown that dogs,

or probably other animals, can benefit

314

00:19:24,319 --> 00:19:30,159

children with autism, uh, uh, elders,

or people with Alzheimer's or dementia,

315

00:19:30,759 --> 00:19:35,189

and people with post traumatic stress

disorder or syndrome, as an example.

316

00:19:35,209 --> 00:19:36,089

There's many others.

317

00:19:36,089 --> 00:19:40,379

Um, as well as ones that

are on more physical.

318

00:19:40,839 --> 00:19:47,109

Uh, things like, you know, weight control,

uh, decreased risk of heart disease.

319

00:19:47,509 --> 00:19:51,409

Um, there's studies that have shown

that you have about a 40 percent

320

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greater chance of living and surviving

a heart attack if you have a cat.

321

00:19:55,549 --> 00:20:00,319

Um, which, you know, to me was a

bit surprising that a cat versus a

322

00:20:00,319 --> 00:20:05,149

dog, but, um, you know, so that's

what that, that section is about.

323

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Dr. G: So is it, you know, we know

about emotional support animals.

324

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Do you see, uh, like a health support

animal thing evolving at some point?

325

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Rustin Moore: I do.

326

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And actually, that was part of my message

on my TED Talk back in 2016, which is

327

00:20:23,379 --> 00:20:27,989

why I think one of the audiences for

this book are healthcare workers, human

328

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healthcare workers, and social workers.

329

00:20:30,659 --> 00:20:35,769

Um, imagine, um, well,

let's talk about prevention.

330

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Let's say somebody is overweight

and they tell, you know, the doctor

331

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says, you know, you need to exercise.

332

00:20:44,299 --> 00:20:48,639

Well, you know, like the

compliance level of that.

333

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Long term is not high, but if you

prescribe them a dog and the dog

334

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needs to be walked or they're in a

household and they smoke and their

335

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cat is having problems because of

that, you need to quit smoking.

336

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They'll do it for the cat.

337

00:21:06,459 --> 00:21:07,769

They won't do it for themselves.

338

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So I think there, there are

certainly behavioral changes that

339

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people can make that a pet can

help them make and stick to it.

340

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Um, And then there are other, uh,

situations, like, for example, and,

341

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and this, I think anytime you go into a

healthcare facility, everybody's going

342

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to have some level of stress, of, you

know, even if it's a wellness check,

343

00:21:34,579 --> 00:21:36,069

like, what are they going to find today?

344

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And so, imagine somebody going in

to the ER, and they're there by

345

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themselves, they, you know, they

may, may be single, they may not have

346

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family, And I've never once in my

life when I go into a medical facility

347

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ever been asked, do you have a pet?

348

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Ever.

349

00:21:56,699 --> 00:21:59,699

Imagine if they ask, do you have a pet?

350

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And the person says, yes, um,

it's a dog and, uh, well, is

351

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someone taking care of it?

352

00:22:06,759 --> 00:22:08,629

Well, no, I, you know,

this was an emergency.

353

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Okay, well, how can we help you?

354

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That would be one.

355

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The other one is someone

is, is in the hospital.

356

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They had a total hip replacement.

357

00:22:15,899 --> 00:22:17,169

They had a quintuple bypass.

358

00:22:17,169 --> 00:22:17,249

Yes.

359

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They had whatever and they're

going home and do you have a pet?

360

00:22:22,569 --> 00:22:23,569

Yes, I have a dog.

361

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I have a, what is it?

362

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It's a six month old German shepherd.

363

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Oh, well, how does it exercise?

364

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Well, I walk it.

365

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Well, who's going to walk it because

you're not going to be walking a six

366

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month old dog right after you go home.

367

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And more importantly, I think

someone transitioning into

368

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palliative or hospice care.

369

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Do you have a pet?

370

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Yes, I have two dogs.

371

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Do you have a plan for your dogs?

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After you, you know, know, well,

would you like us to help you find

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a loving home so that you don't

have to, to worry about that.

374

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Those are just some of the things that

I think should be everyday conversations

375

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Dr. G: that that's actually

interesting is are my last episode.

376

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It was about stories from

individuals that have experienced

377

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homelessness for different reasons.

378

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And some of them were because they, uh,

one gentleman that shared his story,

379

00:23:14,914 --> 00:23:19,244

he had to go into the hospital to

have, um, surgery, surgical procedures.

380

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And his primary concern was who's

going to take care of my dogs.

381

00:23:22,214 --> 00:23:25,274

And this great organization down

in Cincinnati took care of his dog.

382

00:23:25,274 --> 00:23:26,594

So then he was able to go

383

00:23:26,944 --> 00:23:30,044

into the hospital knowing that

the animals were taken care of.

384

00:23:30,394 --> 00:23:34,084

Another individual shared that

she had suicidal ideations and her

385

00:23:34,084 --> 00:23:37,654

animals, her cats were the ones

keeping her from ending her life.

386

00:23:37,984 --> 00:23:40,314

Knowing that if something

happens to me, who's going to

387

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take care of these cats, right?

388

00:23:41,934 --> 00:23:44,144

So just like that's psychological support.

389

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Rustin Moore: And that just, that's

another example of how strong and

390

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enduring the bond is, regardless of

someone's background, socioeconomic

391

00:23:53,874 --> 00:23:56,054

status, mental capacity, etc.

392

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Dr. G: So this brings us then to

the third section, which is the

393

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stories of the enduring bonds.

394

00:24:03,234 --> 00:24:05,224

Rustin Moore: There's stories

throughout every chapter.

395

00:24:05,874 --> 00:24:09,194

Uh, but in, in, in some of

these, there's more, you know,

396

00:24:09,194 --> 00:24:10,524

it gets in more depth of stories.

397

00:24:10,534 --> 00:24:16,484

So there's stories of, for example,

uh, and most of these are true,

398

00:24:16,704 --> 00:24:19,374

they're all true, but they're

authentic stories, meaning I, they

399

00:24:19,374 --> 00:24:20,994

aren't repurposed off the internet.

400

00:24:21,554 --> 00:24:25,214

Um, so I've tried to get new

stories through these interviews,

401

00:24:25,214 --> 00:24:30,004

but there's a, there's a chapter

on sort of called enduring bonds.

402

00:24:30,374 --> 00:24:37,004

Um, and so, you know, there's, you know,

when a dog is rehomed, you know, 20 miles

403

00:24:37,004 --> 00:24:38,874

away and it ends up at the back door.

404

00:24:39,394 --> 00:24:43,404

Uh, or cats or other animals

that find their way home after,

405

00:24:43,884 --> 00:24:45,524

you know, really long distances.

406

00:24:45,524 --> 00:24:47,894

And I'm not talking about

with a microchip that somebody

407

00:24:48,074 --> 00:24:49,504

connects you, but on their own.

408

00:24:50,044 --> 00:24:53,014

And that's fascinating to me

and the science behind it and

409

00:24:53,014 --> 00:24:54,794

how they, they navigate that.

410

00:24:55,124 --> 00:24:59,114

You know, part of it is

nose, you know, smell.

411

00:24:59,364 --> 00:25:06,164

Part of it, though, is just sort of this

Uh, I don't know, geospatial awareness.

412

00:25:06,254 --> 00:25:09,794

Um, and then some of it is

landmarks in terms of vis vision.

413

00:25:10,144 --> 00:25:11,794

And so it, it's really interesting.

414

00:25:11,794 --> 00:25:16,214

And, and so that's, that's just some

of the stories that are in there.

415

00:25:16,304 --> 00:25:19,154

Uh, some of them very, very moving.

416

00:25:19,244 --> 00:25:22,034

Well, they're all moving, but

some of 'em are really profound

417

00:25:24,014 --> 00:25:26,624

Dr. G: So then the next one is,

as you were talking, you had a

418

00:25:26,624 --> 00:25:30,404

section on the working dogs and

their handlers and therapy animals.

419

00:25:30,949 --> 00:25:34,529

Um, so what are, what are some of

the, what are some of these jobs

420

00:25:34,529 --> 00:25:38,739

that dogs have that have an impact

on the humans that they help?

421

00:25:39,749 --> 00:25:39,999

Rustin Moore: Sure.

422

00:25:39,999 --> 00:25:42,749

Well, so I'll give you a few examples.

423

00:25:42,749 --> 00:25:47,389

One, um, um, human remain

search and rescue dogs.

424

00:25:47,989 --> 00:25:51,269

So those dogs are trained to detect.

425

00:25:51,619 --> 00:25:53,589

The scent of human remains.

426

00:25:53,919 --> 00:25:55,849

So this is not a living person.

427

00:25:55,849 --> 00:26:04,839

This is, uh, and there is a similar

same, um, um, smells that are

428

00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:07,829

gases.

429

00:26:08,549 --> 00:26:12,299

That come off of decomposing human flesh.

430

00:26:12,929 --> 00:26:17,899

And so when these dogs are trained, and

you go out to look for some, for the

431

00:26:17,899 --> 00:26:23,849

remains of someone, they'll run right by

a decomposing rabbit, or a decomposing

432

00:26:23,849 --> 00:26:25,529

deer, or a decomposing anything.

433

00:26:26,289 --> 00:26:31,689

And they can smell these, these,

um, these, um, remains, whether

434

00:26:31,689 --> 00:26:35,369

they're buried underground, they're

submerged completely in water.

435

00:26:35,839 --> 00:26:38,589

I have a classmate in vet school, Dr.

436

00:26:38,589 --> 00:26:41,169

Kim Stewart, that is, I

highlight in this book.

437

00:26:41,619 --> 00:26:46,609

Um, she has a dog, Seamus,

who is, um, eight years old

438

00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:48,269

at the time I interviewed her.

439

00:26:48,699 --> 00:26:52,479

And he had identified, found

the remains of ten people.

440

00:26:53,269 --> 00:26:55,829

First time when he was just

under two years of age.

441

00:26:56,439 --> 00:27:00,089

Two of those ten people, People or

those remains were completely buried

442

00:27:00,089 --> 00:27:04,209

underground, two were completely submerged

underwater, and the other ones were

443

00:27:04,209 --> 00:27:05,969

in a variety of different locations.

444

00:27:07,449 --> 00:27:09,239

Another would be service dogs.

445

00:27:09,249 --> 00:27:16,189

So, I interviewed a lady who has had a,

has had a service dog since she was, um,

446

00:27:16,269 --> 00:27:18,839

in high school or, uh, in high school.

447

00:27:19,019 --> 00:27:21,729

Uh, she, uh, had developed

muscular dystrophy.

448

00:27:22,139 --> 00:27:27,689

She's had four dogs,

um, and, It's the dogs.

449

00:27:27,699 --> 00:27:32,399

I mean, she's in a wheelchair and has

been since back in high school, but that's

450

00:27:32,419 --> 00:27:34,689

what gave her the confidence to go on.

451

00:27:34,689 --> 00:27:35,989

She became a school teacher.

452

00:27:36,009 --> 00:27:36,729

She teaches.

453

00:27:37,499 --> 00:27:42,819

She's married, but I got to interview

her about her four dogs, but I also

454

00:27:42,819 --> 00:27:47,389

got to interview the puppy raiser

of one of them and the trainer.

455

00:27:47,389 --> 00:27:48,649

So I had this triad.

456

00:27:49,239 --> 00:27:56,689

Of the bond between Ezra and Sharon,

Ezra and Beth, Ezra and, um, the

457

00:27:56,729 --> 00:28:02,389

trainer, uh, Adrena, and then the

bonds that they had with each other.

458

00:28:02,809 --> 00:28:04,189

So it's really fascinating.

459

00:28:04,189 --> 00:28:08,539

And so, you know, there are every,

uh, I could go on and on about these

460

00:28:08,539 --> 00:28:13,989

different uses of dogs, uh, and

these dogs in love what they do,

461

00:28:14,039 --> 00:28:16,169

and they, they have drive for it.

462

00:28:16,589 --> 00:28:17,639

Um, so.

463

00:28:17,954 --> 00:28:23,354

The bond between the handler and

the dog is profound and in most

464

00:28:23,354 --> 00:28:24,824

of the things it's teamwork.

465

00:28:26,784 --> 00:28:30,054

Dr. G: Yeah, when, when we were

discussing actually one of my animal

466

00:28:30,054 --> 00:28:33,444

law classes we were discussing as far

as the working animals and how some

467

00:28:33,444 --> 00:28:36,494

people feel that the animals are being

used and abused by their handlers.

468

00:28:36,844 --> 00:28:41,014

And in my personal experience, especially

with like working dogs for police

469

00:28:41,014 --> 00:28:43,424

dogs, these dogs love their job, right?

470

00:28:43,424 --> 00:28:46,704

Like these are not dogs that are

picked up and made to do this.

471

00:28:46,714 --> 00:28:49,794

These are dogs that are picked because

they have certain personalities

472

00:28:50,044 --> 00:28:52,084

that make them want to do it.

473

00:28:52,264 --> 00:28:57,324

You know, we talk about people that, that

purchase or adopt certain breeds and then

474

00:28:57,324 --> 00:28:59,924

they can't deal with them in their house

because the dog is tearing the place

475

00:28:59,924 --> 00:29:01,684

up or running or hurting or whatever.

476

00:29:01,684 --> 00:29:04,974

And it's because these dogs have

that drive to do that, right?

477

00:29:05,004 --> 00:29:08,379

So it makes them happy Yeah,

478

00:29:09,239 --> 00:29:13,759

Rustin Moore: I interviewed a

guy, Joel, who has been an animal

479

00:29:13,839 --> 00:29:20,659

trainer for over 30 years with a

variety of different shows, and he

480

00:29:23,389 --> 00:29:26,869

adopted over 3, 000 animals from shelters.

481

00:29:28,419 --> 00:29:32,959

And these are the dogs and cats and other

that nobody else wanted because they

482

00:29:32,959 --> 00:29:36,759

either had too much drive and he told

me a story once about one of the shows

483

00:29:36,759 --> 00:29:38,679

he needed a cat that would climb a rope.

484

00:29:40,099 --> 00:29:45,139

And so he went to the shelter and there

was a little card on the front of the cage

485

00:29:45,139 --> 00:29:49,529

that said the reason it was relinquished

because it climbs curtains constantly.

486

00:29:50,574 --> 00:29:55,084

And so he asked if he could call the

former owner to talk to the person,

487

00:29:55,764 --> 00:29:59,784

and he did, and he, she said, yeah,

we had to get, we just couldn't keep

488

00:29:59,784 --> 00:30:03,824

the cat, I mean, we tried everything,

we squirted it with a squirt water

489

00:30:03,824 --> 00:30:07,524

gun or a squirt bottle, and he said,

perfect, that's the cat I want.

490

00:30:07,984 --> 00:30:12,924

Uh, and that cat went on and, and

those animals, a lot of people think

491

00:30:12,934 --> 00:30:17,614

that those animals that are in those

shows are abused, those animals have

492

00:30:17,614 --> 00:30:19,534

such a tight bond with the handlers.

493

00:30:20,014 --> 00:30:22,834

They, they spend hours

a day with the handler.

494

00:30:23,174 --> 00:30:27,914

How many people, unless you're

retired, how many of us that work

495

00:30:28,864 --> 00:30:31,034

spend that kind of time with our pets?

496

00:30:32,054 --> 00:30:37,834

And, uh, when those animals are retired,

they, they adopt them themselves.

497

00:30:38,394 --> 00:30:40,704

Um, and sometimes when he

told me stories, they would.

498

00:30:41,499 --> 00:30:47,009

They would retire a dog from some of

these things, and the dog would be

499

00:30:47,009 --> 00:30:50,839

adopted and go with the, you know, the

trainer, and the dog would go into this,

500

00:30:50,889 --> 00:30:58,359

like, I'll say depression, just moping

around, not eating, and one time they

501

00:30:58,359 --> 00:31:04,349

brought it back, uh, and just started

back in one show a day, and the dog

502

00:31:04,349 --> 00:31:08,659

was completely, you know, so, that

tells me that, you know, and that's

503

00:31:08,659 --> 00:31:12,789

just one example, but it tells me that

those animals have a pretty good life.

504

00:31:14,184 --> 00:31:17,194

Dr. G: Yeah, we got to think that

animals as sentient beings, there's

505

00:31:17,194 --> 00:31:21,744

not that much difference from us as far

as we have drives to do things, right?

506

00:31:21,744 --> 00:31:23,214

Like we became veterinarians.

507

00:31:23,214 --> 00:31:24,014

That's our drive.

508

00:31:24,264 --> 00:31:27,624

There are other people that are

in math and science and whatever.

509

00:31:27,924 --> 00:31:30,444

So animals have those drives themselves.

510

00:31:30,484 --> 00:31:33,764

So it takes a little bit of

time to understand what their

511

00:31:33,764 --> 00:31:37,174

needs are so that then we can

better help them be themselves.

512

00:31:39,444 --> 00:31:44,144

So the, the next section looks like it's

about strategies to safeguard the health

513

00:31:44,144 --> 00:31:46,284

and well being of both animals and people.

514

00:31:47,579 --> 00:31:50,489

Rustin Moore: Yeah, so the way that

there's, uh, there's a number of

515

00:31:50,489 --> 00:31:54,189

things there, but I'll just say

one of the chapters is on how to

516

00:31:54,189 --> 00:32:01,309

safeguard your pet and therefore

the bond inside the house and yard.

517

00:32:02,219 --> 00:32:08,569

So that's around poisons, that's

around, you know, electric cords

518

00:32:08,569 --> 00:32:12,159

that you could chew on, that's,

that's about, uh, poisonous plants

519

00:32:12,159 --> 00:32:17,249

in the yard, that's about, uh, And

I have stories of all this stuff.

520

00:32:17,249 --> 00:32:21,869

There's a, there's one, um, where my

neighbor, my former neighbor, their

521

00:32:21,869 --> 00:32:27,139

dog was out, a little white dog, little

miniature poodle was out one night.

522

00:32:27,629 --> 00:32:33,249

And she heard, uh, went out to use the

bathroom and she heard it, you know,

523

00:32:33,299 --> 00:32:38,269

yelp and went out there and assuming we

think it was an owl because it had these

524

00:32:38,279 --> 00:32:40,449

scratch marks right up its both sides.

525

00:32:40,909 --> 00:32:44,909

Um, I had my two dogs when I,

before I got the third one.

526

00:32:45,499 --> 00:32:52,109

Uh, one time a doe was in the other, in

the neighbor's yard and I saw the doe

527

00:32:52,489 --> 00:32:56,859

coming toward them and I went down and,

you know, called them to me because I,

528

00:32:56,859 --> 00:33:02,449

you know, she was coming toward the yard

and, and then they took back toward her

529

00:33:02,449 --> 00:33:08,009

and she came in and she took both front

feet and smacked one of them four times,

530

00:33:08,209 --> 00:33:12,959

twice each and, you know, he ran back to

the house, the house, yelping and, you

531

00:33:12,959 --> 00:33:14,669

know, she could have really injured him.

532

00:33:15,099 --> 00:33:18,679

Uh, and then that was a Saturday

evening, and I came home about a

533

00:33:18,679 --> 00:33:22,159

Wednesday afternoon and just let him

out without looking, and that darn

534

00:33:22,169 --> 00:33:26,299

deer was out there again, and the

other one, she got the same treatment.

535

00:33:27,209 --> 00:33:33,279

So, it's, it's about, um,

raising awareness about how to

536

00:33:33,369 --> 00:33:35,049

keep and safeguard your pet.

537

00:33:35,429 --> 00:33:39,879

The one that's outside the home, that's

everything from, you know, not leaving

538

00:33:39,879 --> 00:33:45,469

your pet in a car, um, and I have a story

that's just heartbreaking about that.

539

00:33:45,939 --> 00:33:49,819

Um, you know, things that, uh,

animals could, like, if you're out

540

00:33:49,829 --> 00:33:54,549

in the water, they, you know, in

terms of lepto or algal bloom or,

541

00:33:54,769 --> 00:33:56,919

um, you know, all sorts of things.

542

00:33:56,919 --> 00:34:00,239

So that's a lot of what that

chapter, or that section's about.

543

00:34:01,809 --> 00:34:05,319

Dr. G: Which would be extremely important

for pet owners, because, I mean, so

544

00:34:05,319 --> 00:34:08,989

many, so many injuries and accidents are

preventable, and it's just because of lack

545

00:34:09,009 --> 00:34:10,929

of knowledge or lack of education on it.

546

00:34:11,759 --> 00:34:15,179

Rustin Moore: Yeah, and, you know, stuff

like fireworks and other stuff, it's,

547

00:34:15,188 --> 00:34:21,103

you know, Um, I won't, I can't, I'm not

going to say that it's all inclusive

548

00:34:21,103 --> 00:34:26,293

of every possible thing because that

would be impossible, but it touches

549

00:34:26,293 --> 00:34:32,254

on, you know, many of it, you know,

chocolate, xylitol, uh, things like that.

550

00:34:33,514 --> 00:34:37,224

Dr. G: And the last section, section

six is your overview and conclusions.

551

00:34:37,333 --> 00:34:40,833

So what would you say is your

overall take on all the information

552

00:34:41,014 --> 00:34:43,304

that, that you learn and all

these stories that you heard?

553

00:34:44,174 --> 00:34:50,474

Rustin Moore: Well, one of the questions,

well, I ask most every person I

554

00:34:50,474 --> 00:34:53,643

interview the following five questions.

555

00:34:56,074 --> 00:35:00,494

Before the reader reads the book,

as they pick it up, what message

556

00:35:00,494 --> 00:35:01,814

are you hoping to send to them?

557

00:35:02,614 --> 00:35:06,664

Number two, what emotions do

you hope to evoke in the reader?

558

00:35:07,484 --> 00:35:12,044

Number three, what call to action do

you hope to inspire in the reader?

559

00:35:13,214 --> 00:35:17,784

Number four, when they've read

the book and completed it and gone

560

00:35:17,784 --> 00:35:21,094

on about their daily busy life, a

year later, what do you want them

561

00:35:21,094 --> 00:35:22,614

to take away and remember from it?

562

00:35:23,274 --> 00:35:26,964

And number five is, for someone

who's never had a pet, never had a

563

00:35:27,274 --> 00:35:29,844

working dog, never had a whatever,

I'm interviewing them about, what

564

00:35:29,844 --> 00:35:30,844

would you tell them they're missing?

565

00:35:31,769 --> 00:35:35,789

So, you can imagine what those various

things are, but a lot of it's about,

566

00:35:36,099 --> 00:35:40,469

you know, calls to action is understand

the responsibility of owning a pet.

567

00:35:41,189 --> 00:35:45,919

Uh, if you don't know this, um,

you know, there are many mutual

568

00:35:45,929 --> 00:35:49,239

benefits back and forth between the

pet or the animal and the person.

569

00:35:49,519 --> 00:35:52,669

So, yes, you're benefiting, but

the animal is too, or the animal's

570

00:35:52,669 --> 00:35:53,939

benefiting and you are too.

571

00:35:54,699 --> 00:35:58,709

Uh, you know, some calls to

action may be that we need more.

572

00:35:59,044 --> 00:36:03,884

Public housing that is pet friendly,

uh, or that we need more affordable

573

00:36:04,004 --> 00:36:09,374

veterinary care, or we need to do

X, Y, and Z to maintain, I say to

574

00:36:09,934 --> 00:36:12,744

protect, preserve, and promote the bond.

575

00:36:13,284 --> 00:36:16,254

Um, and so there's a variety of things.

576

00:36:16,294 --> 00:36:17,074

It could be.

577

00:36:17,799 --> 00:36:23,819

Um, things that are

about law or regulations.

578

00:36:23,919 --> 00:36:26,149

It could be just about behavior change.

579

00:36:26,149 --> 00:36:30,169

It could be about, um, you know,

there, there are a lot of positive

580

00:36:30,179 --> 00:36:34,259

benefits of children interacting

with animals, cognitive development,

581

00:36:34,489 --> 00:36:39,439

social skill development, et cetera,

but there's also responsibility

582

00:36:39,699 --> 00:36:41,789

and there's, you know, done right.

583

00:36:42,534 --> 00:36:47,384

You can teach them responsibility,

follow through, et cetera.

584

00:36:48,764 --> 00:36:51,874

Dr. G: So how can our listeners get

their hands on a copy of the book?

585

00:36:51,874 --> 00:36:54,344

I guess, when, when does the book,

when is it scheduled to come out?

586

00:36:55,054 --> 00:36:58,034

Rustin Moore: The book is scheduled

to come out sometime in, in the

587

00:36:58,034 --> 00:37:03,204

first part, first half or first

quarter of 2025, so next year.

588

00:37:03,914 --> 00:37:08,334

The book essentially has been written,

it just needs, I've submitted it to the

589

00:37:08,334 --> 00:37:14,284

editors, and so the next 3 or 4 months

I will be working with the revisions

590

00:37:14,284 --> 00:37:18,584

editor to tighten it up, and then it

will go to copyright, or copy editing.

591

00:37:20,584 --> 00:37:28,734

So right now, people can, between July

31st and September 2nd, people can pre

592

00:37:28,734 --> 00:37:33,589

order, or sponsor or support the book in a

variety of ways, which are on the website.

593

00:37:34,159 --> 00:37:39,019

Um, and by doing that, there's a multitude

of perks that other people won't get.

594

00:37:39,299 --> 00:37:45,259

And that's everything from, um, when you

receive your book or books in the mail,

595

00:37:46,259 --> 00:37:48,249

they will already have been signed by me.

596

00:37:49,839 --> 00:37:58,429

Um, there will, there are tickets, uh, to,

there will be an in person launch party.

597

00:37:59,024 --> 00:38:02,994

Uh, and there will be a virtual launch

party and, uh, I don't know that all

598

00:38:02,994 --> 00:38:07,064

the details around that yet, but that's

what will be, um, for some of them.

599

00:38:07,134 --> 00:38:11,804

Um, also, uh, well, anybody who pre

orders a book or does any of those other

600

00:38:12,104 --> 00:38:17,274

types of sponsorships, uh, will get

an invite to join my, what's called my

601

00:38:17,294 --> 00:38:22,774

author community, which will be like

a blog and they'll get regular updates

602

00:38:23,244 --> 00:38:26,794

on the progress of the book excerpts

from the book, they'll be asked

603

00:38:26,794 --> 00:38:29,604

their opinion about certain things,

including the cover of the book.

604

00:38:29,604 --> 00:38:32,054

The current cover is not, it's

not what it will look like.

605

00:38:32,054 --> 00:38:34,404

It's actually just a mock cover.

606

00:38:34,844 --> 00:38:38,454

Uh, so there will be, uh, I

will be working with someone

607

00:38:38,454 --> 00:38:39,654

in design to design it.

608

00:38:39,654 --> 00:38:44,184

But, you know, I will be asking my author

community for, for their ideas and input.

609

00:38:44,184 --> 00:38:45,504

And there's a whole lot of other things.

610

00:38:45,844 --> 00:38:52,094

Uh, so, you know, if you want to be

part of that, you can do so by going

611

00:38:52,094 --> 00:38:57,684

to the website by September the 2nd

and doing whatever, whichever of the

612

00:38:57,694 --> 00:38:58,984

options that you want to choose from.

613

00:38:59,944 --> 00:39:00,304

Dr. G: Excellent.

614

00:39:00,324 --> 00:39:04,274

And we will be sharing the website for

anybody that's listening so that they can

615

00:39:04,274 --> 00:39:10,154

go in now after, after that deadline of

September 2nd, can people still, uh, like,

616

00:39:10,164 --> 00:39:13,294

can they get in a wait list or something

like that, or can they still pre order?

617

00:39:14,924 --> 00:39:19,034

Rustin Moore: I'm trying to figure

that out because the website that,

618

00:39:19,064 --> 00:39:21,174

where this sits is with the company.

619

00:39:22,114 --> 00:39:27,514

I also have my own personal site that

has the same information, but I don't

620

00:39:27,514 --> 00:39:28,864

know how that's going to happen.

621

00:39:29,624 --> 00:39:33,894

The reason for the pre ordering and

the support is I have to demonstrate to

622

00:39:33,894 --> 00:39:39,114

the company that I have enough support

to actually continue with the book.

623

00:39:40,384 --> 00:39:43,524

And I've gotten really good

support so far, so I'm very happy.

624

00:39:43,944 --> 00:39:48,864

Um, and, um, but certainly there

will be ways to get the book,

625

00:39:49,044 --> 00:39:50,114

certainly once it's published.

626

00:39:50,134 --> 00:39:54,839

I don't know about, I'll have to figure

out with the company and also what I

627

00:39:54,839 --> 00:40:02,479

could do if people missed the, the, uh,

September 2nd deadline for preordering.

628

00:40:03,909 --> 00:40:07,259

Dr. G: So anybody listening hit

that, hit that website right now.

629

00:40:07,609 --> 00:40:10,019

I saw that because the time

is, time is running out.

630

00:40:10,489 --> 00:40:13,599

Um, and, and I saw that you're

asking people when they share the,

631

00:40:13,639 --> 00:40:17,459

the information or anything to use

the hashtag #UnleashingTheBond.

632

00:40:17,539 --> 00:40:18,059

Is that right?

633

00:40:18,789 --> 00:40:20,229

Rustin Moore: Yes, unleashing the bond.

634

00:40:20,709 --> 00:40:24,729

Um, share wide, far and wide with people.

635

00:40:25,169 --> 00:40:27,129

Um, absolutely.

636

00:40:27,149 --> 00:40:31,709

And the people that I interview, as

you've probably seen on social media,

637

00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:37,629

is I'm trying to highlight each of them

throughout this, you know, between now

638

00:40:37,629 --> 00:40:41,719

and when the book launch or the book

is published, um, telling just a little

639

00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,669

bit of their story, but thanking them

and showing pictures of them and their

640

00:40:44,669 --> 00:40:49,149

various pets as a way to say thank you

for your time and sharing so openly.

641

00:40:49,804 --> 00:40:51,084

Very moving stories.

642

00:40:52,464 --> 00:40:55,444

Dr. G: Well, I want to congratulate

you and thank you for doing this,

643

00:40:55,464 --> 00:40:58,944

because I think that it is very

necessary, very needed, very important.

644

00:40:59,379 --> 00:41:01,959

Um, and I'm looking forward to reading it.

645

00:41:02,109 --> 00:41:04,439

I will be one of those pre signs.

646

00:41:04,869 --> 00:41:07,879

And, uh, and yeah, thank

you so much for being here.

647

00:41:08,839 --> 00:41:12,119

Rustin Moore: Well, thank you for

inviting me, but more importantly, thank

648

00:41:12,119 --> 00:41:16,059

you for all you do, both with your,

your animal welfare connection, but

649

00:41:16,059 --> 00:41:18,989

also, uh, is it connection or junction?

650

00:41:18,989 --> 00:41:19,649

Dr. G: Junction.

651

00:41:19,809 --> 00:41:20,229

Rustin Moore: Junction.

652

00:41:20,229 --> 00:41:20,419

Yeah.

653

00:41:21,369 --> 00:41:22,479

Uh, either way.

654

00:41:22,539 --> 00:41:24,949

Um, and all you do in the community.

655

00:41:24,959 --> 00:41:28,189

I mean, whether it's mentoring our

veterinary students or, you know,

656

00:41:28,189 --> 00:41:32,119

providing care for the vulnerable

populations of people and animals

657

00:41:32,129 --> 00:41:34,339

to, uh, you're amazing in all you do.

658

00:41:34,339 --> 00:41:35,339

So thank you for that.

659

00:41:35,859 --> 00:41:37,119

Dr. G: Well, thank you

so much for saying that.

660

00:41:37,119 --> 00:41:38,299

It means a lot coming from you.

661

00:41:38,869 --> 00:41:42,649

So for everybody that's listening,

Unleashing THE Bond, check it

662

00:41:42,649 --> 00:41:44,989

out, pre-sign, read it, get it.

663

00:41:45,259 --> 00:41:48,699

And, uh, thank, as always, thank you

for listening and thank you for caring.

664

00:41:50,299 --> 00:41:50,849

Rustin Moore: Wonderful.