Public transport is under pressure to do more with less: cutting emissions, managing ageing infrastructure and meeting rising passenger expectations, all while budgets remain tight. In this episode, Dr. Kaan Yildizgoz speaks with Gautier Brodeo, President of the International Association of Public Transport (UITP), about how the sector can meet these demands without losing sight of the people it serves.

Gautier shares his view on the biggest challenges facing public transport today, from climate adaptation to workforce shortages, and explains why AI and automation should support staff rather than replace them. He also discusses UITP's priorities for accelerating decarbonisation, the barriers to net zero mobility, and why urban density remains central to building successful transport networks.

Whether you lead an authority, an operator, or a supplier, this conversation offers a clear view of where global public transport is heading, and what it will take to get more people choosing it, more often.

Chapters:

00:00 Welcome and Intro

00:17 Meet UITP President Gautier

02:01 Biggest Challenges and Trends

06:17 UITP Priorities

10:12 World Public Transport Day

12:11 AI and Digital Investment Focus

15:09 Workforce and Future Skills

19:42 Net Zero Barriers and Solutions

26:09 Mobility Vision for 2035

28:14 Closing Thoughts and Sign Off

Connect with Us:

Website: https://mobilityredefined.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/mobility-redefined/

Mobility Redefined is brought to you by Modaxo https://www.modaxo.com

Host: Dr. Kaan Yildizgoz

Producer: Mike Cartmel

Executive Producer: Darren Turpin

Special thanks to:

Brand design: Tina Olagundoye

Digital Media: Belén Iturrioz Campo

Marketing content and Mobility Redefined newsletter: Mike Cartmel

If you have a question or comment, email us at [email protected]

Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Modaxo Inc., its affiliates or subsidiaries, or any entities they represent (“Modaxo”). This production belongs to Modaxo, and may contain information that may be subject to trademark, copyright, or other intellectual property rights and restrictions. This production provides general information, and should not be relied on as legal advice or opinion. Modaxo specifically disclaims all warranties, express or implied, and will not be liable for any losses, claims, or damages arising from the use of this presentation, from any material contained in it, or from any action or decision taken in response to it.

Thank you for listening to Mobility Redefined, brought to you by Modaxo. For more insights and information, please visit mobilityredefined.com. That is mobilityredefined.com. Welcome to the Mobility Redefined Podcast, where we bring together the world's leading voices in mobility to explore the ideas, innovations, and leadership shaping the future of transportation. I am Dr. Kaan Yildizgoz, and today I have the great pleasure of welcoming a leader from the sector whose career has been dedicated to advancing public transport at both national and global levels. Today, joining me is Gautier Brodeo, who is the President of UITP, the International Association of Public Transport. Gautier, thank you for joining us.

Thank you. Thank you, Kaan. And I'm happy to share some time with you.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Many of our listeners will know Gautier through his leadership within UITP. He recently took up his term as President of UITP, representing now the global voice of the public transport sector, bringing together nearly 2,000 member organisations from 100 different countries. At the same time, Gautier has played significant, important roles in the past at different cities, running public transport in those cities. I have personally had the privilege of knowing and working together with Gautier for many years through UITP, and it's a real pleasure for me to welcome him today. In our conversation, we will be exploring global trends, the priorities for UITP under Gautier's presidency, and what the future of urban mobility may look like over the coming decade. So, Gautier, if you're happy to, I would like to start by asking you some questions. I'm keen to hear your opinion on these.

Yeah, please feel free, Kaan.

Thank you. Thank you, Gautier. Thank you. Let me ask you a general question, but a very important one. Through your role, both at UITP and in your former organisations, you have a unique view of public transport systems across the world. What do you see today as the biggest challenges facing public transport, and which trends do you believe will have the greatest impact on mobility over the next decade?

For me, public transport is no longer simply about moving people. It's the platform that enables sustainable, inclusive, and competitive cities. Demand is returning strongly in many cities and regions, but passenger expectations have changed. Cities face, in fact, three challenges. One is about climate commitments, and it means that we need more PT, but not just more PT, more adapted public transport for climate change. Urban growth is another challenge. It's good for PT because if a city is growing, we need more public transport, but we need to be ready for this. The other important challenge is budget constraints and financial investment. So public transport must deliver more capacity, better passenger experience, and greater resilience at the same time. You asked me about the trends, and the biggest trend for me will be AI and data-driven operations. I want to say that AI will not be the thing that replaces mobility, but that helps to facilitate it, and our sector could become a model of governance for artificial intelligence. Another trend is to have integrated mobility ecosystems. We shouldn't have boundaries between buses, trains, metro, cable car. All means of transport should be integrated. Electrification is also a big trend, along with decarbonisation and real-time passenger information. Our passengers are waiting for good information, especially when there are, if I can say, bad events on our network. We have to have the right information in real time. I also mentioned climate adaptation and network resilience. And there are two other trends. One is cybersecurity, and behind that, safety. Another trend is the age of our customers, because we're starting to have older people, and not just older people, but older people in good health. It means they want to use public transport, and we have to take care of that. So the question is no longer whether public transport will transform, but how quickly our sector can scale innovation. Time in our sector is a big question, because it takes a long time to deliver a project. When I mention AI, when I mention data, everything moves very quickly. AI isn't a subject that stays still. It changes every day. You have a new AI development almost every day, and that's not the case in public transport, so we have to adapt to these new tools. The future of mobility will not be defined by technology alone. It will be defined by how effectively we use technology to make public transport more attractive, more reliable, and more inclusive.

Perfect. When I look at the challenges you're listing, mainly around climate change, fast-growing cities, and funding-related challenges, they're also linked with all the trends you were summarising, which we're experiencing all around the world in our daily management of transport companies in different cities. Based on these challenges and trends, can you tell us what you see as your key priorities for UITP during your presidency in the next term? In particular, what can we expect from your next Summit in Hamburg, taking place in a year from now, and which topics do you believe will dominate discussions at this Summit?

UITP's role is to help our sector move from ambition to implementation. Inside UITP, we have the core of our members who are able to do this, because we have everybody. We have the PTAs, so the public transport authorities, and public transport operators. We have the infrastructure managers, we have the industry, the manufacturers, and everybody is on the same boat. We can change, and UITP will be able to help by moving this from ambition to implementation. So I think the priority will be accelerating decarbonisation, and we have to support members in moving from targets to delivery. UITP is also the place where we can share practical solutions and best practice globally, because some of our members have already started, and maybe sometimes finished, electrifying their buses. We can bring this experience and share it inside UITP in order to avoid mistakes, or in order to go quicker than expected, because we have this previous experience across different countries. For decarbonisation or electrification, we can also share the legislation, because when you bring in a new depot with electrification, it means you also have regulation, and regulation can differ between countries. Through UITP, we can help with that part, so growing together is important for me. The other priority for me is also driving innovation. I already mentioned digitalisation, artificial intelligence, and automation, which are creating opportunities for every operator. We ensure that innovation benefits both large and smaller cities, because public transport isn't only in the big cities, the big megacities of the world. We also have smaller cities, and when we want to push public transport, we have to reach everybody. Another priority for me is strengthening public transport's voice. Public transport must be recognised as a strategic investment, not simply an operating cost. When you put in one euro, I think you know this, in UITP we have this motto: when you put one euro into public transport, you will find five euro back in the economy. The thing is that the one euro is...

A great investment for the cities, huh?

Yeah.

Return on investment is very high on this one.

Yeah, exactly. So anyone thinking like a financial person will put in one euro to get five back. But the thing is, the one euro comes from investment, from the financial side, and the five euro goes into the economy. The one who puts in the one euro maybe won't find direct feedback on that one euro invested, but society, globally, will get this money back. That's why public transport is a political decision.

Certainly, now, creating more jobs with public transport, or creating more trade activity, even for authorities collecting more taxes, this one, when trade activity is better, that means a return for the authorities. When you talk about public transport's voice, I wasn't planning to mention this, but I need to. You ran a great campaign in April for Global Public Transport Day. When I saw all the posts from around the world, from cities celebrating this day, led by you, it was a great feeling.

In the Burj Khalifa. I saw this.

And when [landmark reference in Canada, name unconfirmed], you can feel the spirit between people, even when they're not from the same country. You feel the spirit between people who serve, and people who...

That was the great thing, seeing people celebrating it. Their faces showed how they took it, like a festival. It was a great moment for me, and still is.

For UITP, and for me, one priority is also to have it officially recognised by the United Nations.

That's not happened yet.

Perfect, ready for the future.

Yes.

Perfect, that's fantastic. You mentioned artificial intelligence, automation, and data analytics as part of the digitalisation trend. Can you elaborate on how these trends are transforming the day-to-day mobility of people, and where authorities and operators should focus their investment to achieve the greatest impact from digitalisation?

On artificial intelligence, digitalisation, and technology more broadly, technology is not an objective in itself. Its purpose is to improve service for passengers and productivity for operators. The most successful transport organisations will not be those with the most technology. They will be those that best combine technology with human expertise. When you use technology, I think you always have to ask yourself, will this technology bring more humanity to public transport? AI applications are already in place in some parts of our public transport, and there is more to come in creating value. We can mention predictive maintenance, demand forecasting, incident management, customer information, and workforce scheduling. So you can see that AI will be able to bring this, and we also have to have key investment priorities. Focus on data quality, which is very important, to have good data. It's good to have data, but you need clean data to be able to use it and get the results you're looking for. The best digital infrastructure is also important, because infrastructure is sometimes hard, and we'll be able to get feedback from our infrastructure with these new tools. I also already mentioned cybersecurity, interoperability, and staff training. I also want to give you a message about automation. Automation will support and help workers more often than replace them. I remember, well, I wasn't born yet, but in the old days, before this, there was a person at the station with a tool to punch a hole in the ticket.

Yeah, also in the buses, conductors. They were validating tickets earlier when you got on.

Yeah, and so that job disappeared, but in the end we kept the one thing, which is control of the ticket. Now you do it with your smartphone, with your credit card, whatever, but it doesn't mean that workers in public transport are worth less than before. We are growing.

That's actually my question here, because public transport employs around 12 million people globally, if I'm not wrong. With this changing technology, maybe you can elaborate a bit on this from that perspective, because I also saw, over the last two or three years, some cities facing challenges around workforce limitations, attracting drivers, and so on. I also wonder, during this transformation we're experiencing in the sector, how can the sector attract the next generation of talent? What skills do you believe will be most critical for the future workforce, considering all these automation and AI trends?

For me, the future of public transport depends as much on people as on infrastructure. The competition for talent should be framed around purpose. Public transport offers the opportunity to shape the future of cities. The sector employs, and you mentioned 12 million, but it could be more, because you also have indirect jobs.

Certainly.

People who clean, who do other things around public transport. It can be the biggest employer in a city. Many operators face shortages of drivers, technicians in general, and digital specialists. We also have to take care of young professionals, who are our future too. So the sector needs to be an attractive employer, including for women, and women can play a key role in our future in public transport. UITP also supports this, and UITP can help by giving the best image of our sector. The sector should reflect the people it serves. How do we attract talent? For me, we can highlight public transport's contribution to sustainability and quality of life, because in this job, the aim is to serve people. Sometimes people in their jobs are looking for a reason to be in that job, and for us, I think it's quite simple. Every day when you wake up, you help people to move. That's great for me, it's very good. We also have to modernise our branding, we can create more flexible career pathways, increase diversity and inclusion, which, as I mentioned, includes women, but there's also broader diversity to include in public transport, and invest in lifelong learning opportunities. For future skills, from a technical point of view, we can think about data analytics, AI literacy, cybersecurity, and systems engineering. When I mention these technical skills, there's also a challenge behind them, which is new skills versus old skills, because, as I mentioned, we're in a long-term business. Our systems stay in place for, I don't know, 25 years for signalling, and for a train, we can go more than 60 years. So you keep old materials in your company, and you also have to keep the basic skills. We're really technical too, things like boilermakers or welders, I don't know if you know this term.

Yeah, certainly.

Yeah, so these jobs are so important. There are more IT jobs, but these are essential for our sector too. There's another set of skills that's also very important to me, and that's human skills. UITP's strategic plan is titled "People First". We also need skills within our sector for good leadership and good collaboration, people who think in a passenger-centric way, and who can manage change. If you feel good in your job, you'll feel good with your clients. For me, that's essential.

Certainly. When you were talking about trends, you also mentioned decarbonisation and electrification. From your perspective, what are the biggest barriers to achieving net zero mobility, and what practical steps would you advise cities and operators to prioritise to accelerate momentum for this transition?

Public transport is already one of the most sustainable modes of transport, but the sector must continue to lead by example. The fastest route to net zero mobility isn't simply replacing vehicles, it's enabling more people to choose public transport every day. For me, the main barriers are, first, and we already mentioned this, funding gaps. Another is ageing infrastructure. We have to deal with infrastructure that's already in place. When you have a tunnel in a city, you're not going to build another one right next to it, so you have to keep it and manage that infrastructure. Sometimes it's more than 100 years old, and even when you create a new line, you create it for life. We never see a metro line disappear anywhere in the world.

Yeah, like the metro in Paris, you have great experience with that.

Exactly. Another barrier is slow permitting processes. Another point is energy availability, which is key, and energy is a challenge everywhere in the world now, given the current crisis in the Middle East, and also the crisis with Iran and Ukraine, which is difficult for everybody. So there's a question of energy availability, but I also want to say one more thing: it's important to have clean energy. You can have electricity, but if you produce it with CO2, that's not the best solution either. We have to find clean energy. The last barrier, for me, is that we need long-term policy certainty, because it takes time, and sometimes when you decide to build a new metro line, it won't be the politician who made the decision who cuts the ribbon at the end. So practical priorities for me: electrify bus fleets where appropriate, extend rail and mass transit capacity. When you have existing infrastructure, you have to find ways to increase capacity on your trains. We create longer trains, we create double-deck trains, and we can also work on the operating system itself. We have to create a system of operation that allows more trains on the same track. For this, we developed GoA4, the Grade of Automation for driverless operation, and everybody in the world uses this system now. It was created inside UITP. So UITP has a very specific role in setting the standards for our sector. Another practical priority could be improving network integration, and encouraging a shift away from private cars. I think we'll win when people sell their car, not just stop using it for a while, because if they have no car at all, they will, for sure, use public transport. The last point is about using data to optimise energy consumption. Decarbonisation isn't only a transport challenge. It requires coordination across energy, urban planning, economic development, and housing. Housing is important, and UITP also works with UN-Habitat on this. I don't know if you know this, but there's a survey, going back maybe 40 years, on the average commuting time for people in cities, and this average has stayed roughly the same over that time. It means that as cities grow, and public transport networks grow with them, people sometimes prefer to move further out, to the suburbs, to have a bigger house, more space, or whatever. Behind that, it means we also have to deal with housing and urban planning, which is important, because we have to keep density. If you have good density, you'll have good public transport. If you look at Tokyo or Hong Kong, they have a good system, but they also have the density. I'm not saying we should try to create Hong Kong or Tokyo everywhere, but density matters. Increasing public transport is good, but you also have to take care of how you plan the urbanisation of your city. So collaboration with policymakers and decision-makers is key, and UITP's advocacy work at city, country, and regional level is a major attraction of UITP membership.

I think this is very important, what you're saying. For example, when you gave the examples of Hong Kong and Tokyo, and linked it with density, what we know very well is that this is also closely linked with the cost of transport. We know that in cities where there's good public transport and a good level of density, with integration of mobility and urban planning, the cost of mobility is around 6% of total GDP. But in cities where this isn't the case, unfortunately, it's closer to 15% of total GDP. So there's a direct link with finance, and with the economy of cities as well.

Exactly.

Yeah, fully agree.

And this also means we have to be attractive, but also good at our operations. That's why when I mention AI, when I mention personalised information and so on, all of this will bring about better transport.

Thank you, Kaan. I just want to conclude with a few words. Public transport sits at the centre of some of society's biggest challenges. I already mentioned climate action, urbanisation, social inclusion, digital development, and economic competitiveness. So our task at UITP, and across our membership, is clear: make public transport a natural choice for more people, in more cities, more often. If we succeed, we won't only transform mobility, we'll help transform cities themselves. For me, this is really a choice for society.

That's a great ending for the podcast, Gautier. Thank you once again. And thanks to all our listeners for joining us for another episode of the Mobility Redefined Podcast. If you enjoyed today's conversation, please subscribe, share this episode with your colleagues, and join us again as we continue speaking with the global leaders who are redefining how the world is moving. Until next time, thank you for listening.

Thank you, Kaan.

Thank you for listening to Mobility Redefined, brought to you by Modaxo. For more insights, visit our website at mobilityredefined.com, or follow us on LinkedIn. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast on your favourite app to stay updated with our latest episodes. Thank you for tuning in, and we hope you enjoyed the conversation.