What does emotional sobriety mean for adult children of alcoholics and dysfunctional families? If childhood trauma taught you to stay on guard, people please, expect disappointment, overreact to triggers, or constantly prepare for what might go wrong, you may still be reacting to life through survival patterns you learned years ago.

In Part Two of my conversation with Meagan DeMatteo, author of Emotionally Sober and Unimaginably Good, we go deeper into what happens when childhood dysfunction follows us into adulthood—not just through our thoughts, but through our emotions, relationships, reactions, and nervous system.

Meagan shares a powerful idea from her own ACA recovery: adult children can become reactors instead of actors.

When you grow up around alcoholism, addiction, trauma, or unpredictability, you learn to respond to what's happening around you. You put out fires. You stay prepared. You protect yourself from disappointment. You learn to watch the people around you instead of asking yourself what you want or need.

Those survival skills may have helped you navigate childhood, but they can also follow you into adulthood as hypervigilance, people pleasing, emotional reactivity, control, distrust, anxiety, and the feeling that you always have to be prepared for something to go wrong.

That's where emotional sobriety comes in.

In this conversation, Meaghan and I explore what it looks like to experience an emotion without allowing that emotion to automatically control your reaction, your relationships, or the story you create about what's happening.

We talk about triggers, emotional regulation, inner child healing, reparenting yourself, people pleasing, self-trust, subconscious beliefs, nervous system regulation, and learning to pause before those old knee-jerk survival responses take over.

Meaghan shares a powerful example from her own healing when she began noticing an old belief underneath many of her reactions:

“Everybody always needs something from me.”

Instead of shaming herself for having the reaction or immediately trying to convince herself that it wasn't true, she learned to listen to that younger part of herself.

She observed it.

She acknowledged it.

She created safety around it.

And then she began looking for evidence that the belief she had carried for so long might not actually be true anymore.

That's an important distinction for adult children:

Awareness is the first step. But awareness gives us the opportunity to choose what happens next.

We also talk about learning to name your emotions, noticing where you feel them in your body, understanding the beliefs underneath your reactions, building new patterns, allowing yourself to be witnessed, and realizing that having an emotion doesn't mean you have to act on it.

Because emotional regulation isn't about never getting triggered.

Healing isn't about never feeling angry, scared, disappointed, overwhelmed, ashamed, or hurt.

It's about learning how to experience those emotions without allowing them to run your life.

And Meaghan leaves us with a beautiful reminder:

Emotion is energy in motion.

It moves.

You don't have to suppress it.

You don't have to be afraid of it.

And you don't have to let it drive the bus.

If you've ever wondered why you can logically know you're safe but still have a huge emotional reaction—or why something seemingly small can trigger something that feels much bigger—this episode will help you begin looking underneath the reaction.

Because sometimes the adult you knows everything is okay...

while a much younger part of you is still preparing for what used to happen next.

💜 If you haven't listened to Part One of my conversation with Meaghan, go back and listen to that episode first, then come back for this deeper conversation about emotional sobriety, childhood trauma, ACA recovery, inner child healing, emotional regulation, nervous system healing, self-trust, and creating a life that is more than simply survivable.

About Meagan DeMatteo

Meaghan DiMatteo is the author of Emotionally Sober and Unimaginably Good. Through her writing and lived experience, she explores emotional sobriety, ACA recovery, childhood survival patterns, self-awareness, and what becomes possible when we begin taking responsibility for our healing without shaming ourselves for how we learned to survive.

Connect with Meagan

Continue the conversation with Meaghan and follow her work on emotional sobriety, emotional recovery, ACA recovery, and creating an unimaginably good life.

📸 Instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/megdematteo

✍️ Substack — The Unimaginably Good Life:

https://substack.com/@megdematteo

Connect with Tammy

If you're beginning to recognize your own childhood survival patterns and you're ready to understand what's underneath the people pleasing, overthinking, triggers, self-doubt, or emotional reactions, you don't have to figure it out alone.

💜 Learn more about Tammy's coaching, resources, and support:

https://www.tammyvincent.com/

💜 Book a complimentary Clarity & Calm Call:

https://calendly.com/tammyvincent/clarity-and-calm-call

🎧 Follow the Adult Child of Dysfunction Podcast for more conversations about adult children of alcoholics, dysfunctional families, childhood trauma healing, nervous system regulation, emotional neglect, people pleasing, boundaries, self-trust, inner child healing, and breaking generational patterns.

You are allowed to feel your emotions without letting them run your life. 💜

hello everybody and welcome back.

2

Today we have with us a guest that

was just on two days ago, or a day

3

ago, or it could've been yesterday.

4

So it's Meaghan Dimattio, and

we had such a good time talking,

5

and we didn't get to finish half

of what we wanted to talk about.

6

So I wanted to bring her back and

just go ahead, and we're gonna

7

just continue on the conversation.

8

So if you did not hear the last episode,

please go back and listen to it.

9

You will not be disappointed,

and you will see why we had

10

to continue the conversation.

11

Welcome back, Meaghan.

12

Hi, Tammy.

13

It's so good to be back here and

be with you again in conversation.

14

Thanks for having me.

15

Yeah.

16

Oh, you're welcome.

17

There were so many things I felt

like we wanted to talk about.

18

We didn't get into the ACA journey.

19

We didn't get into talking about,

emotional sobriety, and that was

20

one of the topics that you mentioned

it, and I really wanted to hit on

21

that today specifically to start out

our conversation, 'cause a lot of

22

people hear that term and they're

like, "What are you talking about?"

23

So can you talk about that a

little bit for the audience?

24

Yes.

25

I'm so glad that we're, that we are going

here, 'cause that's what I titled my book.

26

My book is called Emotionally

Sober and Unimaginably Good.

27

And when I had pitched the book, I wanted

it to be called The Unimaginably Good

28

Life and that term was meaningful to

me because for me, when I embraced my

29

recovery, I spent a long time thinking,

"I don't need to be in recovery.

30

I'm not the problem.

31

I'm not the problem."

32

And then one day I was like, "I

think I might be the problem,"

33

and I w- embraced recovery.

34

And one of the questions that I had to ask

myself was, what if I could live a life

35

that was- not just survival, survivable,

but one that was unimaginably good.

36

And that kind of became like my mantra.

37

, What if life could be so good that

I have no frame of reference for it?

38

That it's unimaginable to me because of

the ways that I've learned to adapt in

39

my past and the ways that I've learned

to settle for a crappy existence in a lot

40

of ways, not all the ways, but a lot of

the ways, and it could be a lot better,

41

and in order to do that, I had to learn

how to become emotionally sober, and I

42

had to learn how to take accountability

for the ways that I had become reactive.

43

If anybody's been to ACA, which is

the 12-step program for adult children

44

I'm not a representative of ACA.

45

Nobody can really speak on

behalf of it in a media capacity.

46

But just from a, personal anecdotal

experience of being in that program

47

the … One of the first things that

you learn to understand about the ways

48

that alcoholism and addiction influence

you and shape you as a young human

49

learning to develop and grow, is that

we become reactors as opposed to actors.

50

So when a, a healthy human is developing

in a healthy environment, they learn to

51

say, "I want this thing, and I'm going to

create this thing, and I have full faith

52

and confidence in my own abilities to do

that, and I know that I'll be supported."

53

In a home that is disrupted by

alcoholism, addiction, other kinds

54

of traumas, we're not actors.

55

We're reacting to things around us.

56

We're putting fires out.

57

And so we develop these kind of superhuman

strengths almost, these overworked muscles

58

to react to things, to be on guard, to

be prepared to fight for ourselves, to be

59

prepared to advocate for ourselves, to be

prepared to be disappointed and maybe we

60

have defense mechanisms around protecting

ourselves from that disappointment.

61

And it starts to, over time,

really warp the perspective

62

that you have on the world.

63

You don't learn that the world is a

safe and reasonable place where if you

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want something, it's usually within your

capabilities to have it and to create it,

65

and people will love you no matter what.

66

It's like the perspective of

the world that we have is like I

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have to be prepared for anything,

and I am prepared for anything.

68

And so for me, it was this feeling

of like I realized I'm drunk

69

on my own emotions right now.

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The tiniest little inconvenience could

just set me off on being prepared to

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fight for myself, being prepared to yell

at somebody if I had to yell at somebody.

72

Be prepared to research what I

needed to research in order to

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go in there and find the thing.

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And these are strengths, of course.

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They are often skills and adaptations

that are rewarded in, and sometimes

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even incentivized in the workplace.

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But they don't really lead

to an unimaginably good life.

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They lead to a life that's very

tightly controlled and rigid and

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scared and fearful and suspicious.

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Like I, I think I was just

living in suspicion all the

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time of people around me.

82

And and I had to learn to let that

go and see the world through sober

83

eyes that weren't affected by the

lens of fear, so that's what the

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book means to me, and that's why it

has the title Un- Emotionally Sober.

85

Oh, I love that.

86

And it is funny because I think about

it, and I remember saying to somebody

87

one time, "Wouldn't it be nice…

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Just think about this.

89

Put yourself in this scenario.

90

Wouldn't it be absolutely amazing if just

one time somebody said something and you

91

could actually stop, pause, and respond

instead of just knee-jerk reaction?"

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Yes.

93

Because that's how I feel, like these

are just, when you're not- emotionally

94

sober, you have these knee-jerk

reactions, and they're all defense.

95

They're all defense.

96

Yeah.

97

So anybody can say anything, and you're…

98

It's like this wall goes

up, and you're ready.

99

You're ready to either put the wall up

and keep the wall up, or you're ready to

100

bust through the wall or whatever it is.

101

But just to be able to and

especially when you become a parent.

102

That, I think, is one of the most critical

times that you learn this skill, and

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you take part in learning this skill

or getting the training or getting

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the help or whatever it is you need to

be able to re- respond versus react.

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Because so often our children,

ooh, they trigger us.

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And they're not- They're like little

mirrors … triggering us be- right?

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And they're not triggering us

because they're doing anything wrong.

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They're triggering us because we're

still back in the five-year-old

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body driving the bus, right?

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Yes.

111

So talk about- Yeah

112

some of the things that you

did to help that, to get

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yourself- Yeah … out of that.

114

I love that you mentioned parenting.

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I'm not a parent yet.

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I would really like to be.

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But I remember the moment that I realized

I have to parent myself, and up until

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that point, I had heard about inner

child healing on the internet, right?

119

It was, it- trending on TikTok for a

while there, on Instagram, a lot of

120

self-care, hashtag self-care stuff.

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Learning how to parent yourself again.

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What does that even really mean?

123

It- it's really abstract, and

but that's where I started.

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And I, and now I f- you know, talk to me

when I become a parent of another human

125

being, but I do feel like I learned some

skills on how to parent myself that are

126

applicable to other relationships, whether

they're interpre- intrapersonal, like

127

with myself, or I've learned that I've

become less reactive of other, around

128

other people and towards other people

because I've learned how to nurture

129

myself and take care of myself and

parent myself the way that I want to.

130

A little story about triggers.

131

There's a, an anecdote in the book

y- you talk about the inner child

132

that's still in the driver's seat.

133

I think I started to crumble and

fall apart when I lived in New York.

134

I lived in New York for five years,

and I was under an immense amount

135

of stress, and I, had a really bad

breakup and it was like a, a bottom

136

of sorts for me, an ACA bottom.

137

And in the process of kind of

rebuilding from that, I learned

138

how to, like you said, notice

my triggers, be aware of them.

139

That was step one.

140

Step one for me was like, oh, I'm having

this reaction, and I couldn't necessarily

141

stop it, but I was able to almost just

go into this place of observer and

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watch myself have it and watch myself

cope with all of my old bad coping

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mechanisms, whether it was, going to the

bodega and buying a pack of cigarettes.

144

I was like, "I know that I'm doing this

because I'm having this really strong

145

reaction against something that feels

uncontrollable," and I know that's

146

not the ideal thing that I want to

be doing, but I was just watching it.

147

Similar to, like, how you would watch

a toddler, like, throwing a tantrum on

148

the floor, and you're like, "Okay, this

little creature lacks the skills that

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she needs to be able to articulate the

problem and do something about it."

150

And so I'm not gonna shame her.

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I'm not gonna throw her in time out.

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I'm not gonna, like- tell

her she's a bad person.

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I'm not gonna add fuel to this fire.

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But I am gonna notice it and observe it,

and then whenever she's regul- and h-

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maybe help her regulate it, and then when

she's regulated, then we'll talk about

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different choices that she could make.

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I rem- and the triggers were,

like, I was in such a depleted

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state at the, the triggers were,

like, so innocuous and so silly.

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And s- and they brought up all this

stuff that I wasn't even aware of

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m- that I had been upset about.

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So one time I was walking in

Central Park, and this is what

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I t- talk about in the book.

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This woman … I was … So

in New York, it's a constant

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struggle to get alone time.

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The city is packed.

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It's crowded.

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Anywhere you go in public there's

just, there's few spaces where

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you can really just unwind.

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So I became very protective of places

of, that felt like they were could,

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I could have some kind of privacy and

some kind of res- quiet reflection.

171

So every day I would go to the park, and

I was walking around the park, and I had

172

my headphones on, and I was giving off

all the signals of "Don't talk to me."

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I had my head down.

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I had a hat on.

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I had sunglasses on.

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I had my headphones in.

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And this sweet woman came up

and asked me for directions.

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And again, very innocuous, but in my

mind, the narrative was like, "This is the

179

only hour that I get this day for myself.

180

Everybody needs some- something

from me all the time, and th- I'm

181

gonna take an hour to myself."

182

And I was probably

feeling guilty about it.

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All the emotions were activated.

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I was drunk on emotions.

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And so when this woman asked

me for directions, I think

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I just sloughed her off.

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I wasn't rude towards her.

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I was like, "Oh, sorry, I don't know."

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And then I started walking really fast.

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But when I tell you, because I had started

learning how to observe my triggers and

191

observe my reactions, I watched this

narrative play out in my head of this

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inner probably 12-year-old or something.

193

And I'm telling you, it was like she had

learned that I was a non-reactive person.

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I was learning how to not be reactive

in the real world, but she also learned

195

that she could express all of those

things to me without me doing something

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dangerous, to make them go away.

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I could just hold them.

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I could just listen.

199

So when I tell you my inner

dialogue was like I cannot believe

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that woman would come up to me.

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Didn't she see that I

had my headphones on?

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And doesn't she know that I'm a local?

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I'm not a tourist.

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I'm not trying to be social.

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I'm going on a walk.

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This is my neighborhood, and who is she

here, crowding my neighborhood, and da.

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And really, when it came to it, the

pervasive whine and the pervasive gripe

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that my inner child had was everybody

always needs something from me.

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Everyone always needs something from me.

210

And because that's how I felt

in my core, I was having that

211

experience everywhere that I went.

212

Everywhere that I went, I was

seeing evidence that people

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always need something from me.

214

I can never get time alone.

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I'm always needed.

216

And because I just watched myself whine

in my, m- in my inner dialogue, I was

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able to finally change that narrative.

218

And then I was like, let's

get curious about this.

219

Does everybody always need

something from you all the time?

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No, that's not fundamentally true.

221

It might feel like that's true,

it's not fundamentally true.

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And I could actually learn how to

engage with that part of myself.

223

And I think a lot of your listeners

are probably familiar with IFS and

224

parts work, internal family systems.

225

And what I started to do

was- I would start journaling

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with those parts of myself.

227

And so I would just, I would let them

all come to the table, and I would

228

let them all whi- mo- whine and gripe,

and I would let them all complain.

229

And I wouldn't feed into the reaction.

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I'm sorry.

231

My neighbor's calling me.

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I wouldn't feed into their reaction.

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I wouldn't say, "Yeah, go tell that lady.

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She's terrible," go fight her."

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No, I wouldn't do that, and I wouldn't

feed into the victim narrative either,

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and I wouldn't say, "You're right.

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Life is so hard.

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Everybody does need something

from you all the time.

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You deserve…

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You know what you deserve?

241

You deserve to go, buy a designer bag."

242

I wouldn't, I w- I would just let the

emotions exist without feeding into them.

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And I learned how to become the sober

one that would say, "Okay, thank

244

you for sharing that information."

245

"But it's not actually true.

246

Let's see what's actually true."

247

So let me stop you right there.

248

Let me stop you and let me ask.

249

So if you didn't feed into it, you

didn't get her, your inner whatever,

250

your inner child, that part of you

more angst by being like, "Oh yeah,

251

you're right," and you didn't spoil…

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I don't wanna say spoil her- yeah … but

give her what, treat her ex- extravagantly

253

just because and let her be the victim,

what was your inner dialogue back?

254

And let her have control, let her have

control over my credit card, so what was

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your inner dialogue going back to her?

256

'Cause that's gonna be very

important for the listeners.

257

Yeah.

258

That is such a great question.

259

I will say it's different every time.

260

So in the book there are some

some questions and some kind of

261

prompts and scripts that you can

use if it's not coming to you.

262

But I think everyone

has their own language.

263

There was a period of time when my

inner children would just I would

264

just they would journal with symbols

and colors and stuff, and scribbles.

265

So it doesn't have…

266

I wanna just say that.

267

It doesn't have to be, there's not

the perfect words that's gonna make

268

everything okay, and if you follow

this prescriptive path, it's gonna…

269

it has to be, like, a, an individual

relationship, just as it would

270

with a real child in the world or

a real friend, and that's what-

271

Emotional sobriety is relational.

272

It's not, if you follow a

template then you're get a- gonna

273

get a set of certain results.

274

Emotional sobriety is the ability to

be relational and be in the moment.

275

So I will say it's different, but…

276

And it's different every time.

277

Different for every people, for- different

for everyone and different every time.

278

But I think in that case that was

the core kind of wound for her, was

279

everybody always needs something from me.

280

Everyone always needs something from me.

281

So then I think I just responded

by saying something like,

282

"Thank you for telling me."

283

That's usually the first

thing I always say.

284

Thank you.

285

Thank you for telling me.

286

Thank you for telling me.

287

And then there was the period of time

that I like to call my pillow hugging

288

period, because sometimes I would

literally just hug a pillow and feel as

289

though I was hugging that little inner

six-year-old or inner eight-year-old who

290

was crying to me, and that was deeply

therapeutic And then she kinda started

291

to realize that she could trust me and

that I was just gonna be a safe space.

292

So then that's when real

kind of dialogue would start.

293

And I think I could say to

her, "Let's go out on…

294

next time we go out on a walk, and

let's just count how many people need

295

something from us, and we'll just see."

296

And we would go out, and it would be

like, maybe we would pass 50 people on the

297

walk, 'cause it's New York, it's crowded.

298

So maybe we would pass 50 people,

and wouldn't you know, 49 of them

299

didn't need anything from me.

300

And then it was like a game.

301

And then it was like let's

go out tomorrow and see."

302

And if we passed 70 people on the

walk wouldn't you know, only one

303

person asked me for directions.

304

And it's and you can…

305

So then she starts to trust you,

because it's something she can

306

get her mind behind, something

she can be actively involved in.

307

And you're not punishing her, right?

308

If I had immediately responded to myself

"Megan, you're being unreasonable.

309

You're just being unreasonable again.

310

You're being dramatic.

311

People don't always

need something from you.

312

That's stupid."

313

If I had just immediately

tried to be combative with

314

myself I, I wouldn't have…

315

I might have changed the behavior,

but I wouldn't have changed the

316

fundamental belief that lies beneath it.

317

But because I could just immediately

validate that feeling and say, "Thank

318

you so much," "I'm so glad that I

know that this is how I feel now,"

319

or how you feel to your inner child.

320

Then you can say, once you gain their

trust, you can say let's explore

321

this idea, this belief that you have,

and let's find out if it's true."

322

And it can become like an

adventure game together.

323

So that's fun.

324

And then sometimes, yeah, she

just needs me to tell her, "I

325

don't need anything from you,"

"i don't need anything from you.

326

You can come to me exactly the

way that you are, and I s- I'm…

327

It's not gonna change

how much I love you."

328

And that's a very comforting thing to

say to your inner children as well.

329

Yes.

330

It's And it's always good to

find that evidence in a, like

331

you said, in a playful way.

332

So you're not c- coming back

and being like, "Hey, you idiot.

333

Look, 50 people just passed

us and nobody needed anything,

334

so get it out of your mind."

335

Because you're right, at the

end of the day, it's all about

336

whatever part of you is not feeling

safe, s- you have to get them.

337

Safety is number one, and

that is why these reactions

338

that we have are so visceral.

339

They're so violent and they're … and

we can't control them when they happen-

340

Yeah … at first because that is so

deep into our subconscious that we're

341

like, where did … and half the time,

I remember in the beginning, it was

342

like, where the heck did that come from?

343

But then when- Yeah … you can do

like you said and walk it back and

344

find what gave you that belief, it's

usually from when you were little.

345

Whether it's five or 10 or

12, I always say when you are

346

little, everything seems big.

347

Yes.

348

Yes.

349

Everything seems big.

350

Love that.

351

I love that.

352

So as an adult, when you have these

v- reactions that seem like you're

353

overreacting for the actual, the

punishment needs to fit the crime

354

kind of thing, and I'm like, no,

when you were little and something

355

like that happens and you have

that exact same feeling, it's huge.

356

Yeah.

357

It's so true.

358

And I remember it- when I first got

to New York I was so overstimulated

359

and I think, triggered just from

the amount of people all the time

360

everywhere that needed things from me.

361

'Cause I, I was one of those people

that always felt responsible for other

362

people, so it's A- and that's kinda what

I love about New York is 'cause it…

363

there's so many people there that it

was finally overwhelming enough that

364

it made me go, "You know what, Megan?

365

It's time to let that belief go."

366

'Cause there was a point in my life

when maybe I thought I could be

367

everything to everybody and serve

other people, and be their hero, be

368

their savior, be their people pleaser.

369

But when I got to New York humbled me.

370

It was like, "Nope, that's not even

sta- statistically possible here.

371

This city is just too big.

372

You gotta let that belief go, otherwise

you're not gonna be able to get out

373

or leave your apartment, you're gonna

be so overstimulated and overwhelmed."

374

But I would have these weird reactions.

375

I would do things like, if I was

feeling, if I was feeling beat up like

376

people wouldn't appreciate me enough,

or people always needed things from me,

377

or nobody saw me, the, the, the wounds.

378

I would…

379

It would come out in weird behaviors.

380

I remember one time I told my therapist,

I was like, "I think I was playing chicken

381

with somebody on the street today."

382

It was like they were walking towards

me and I was walking towards them,

383

and in my head I was like, "I'm

not gonna be the first one to move.

384

They're gonna be the first one to

move," and then I think we clipped

385

shoulders and I was like, "Oh,

what, do they wanna fight me?"

386

There was this inner voice in me that was

like, "Go back and, hold your ground."

387

And then, and then I would pass somebody

who didn't leash their dog very well

388

or didn't clean up after their dog

or something, and it was like…

389

Or no, a, a big one for me was,

like, if somebody's dog the leash

390

crossed my legs or something and

I was afraid I was gonna trip.

391

Then I, it was like, then I was like,

"This person's terrible and I can't…

392

Didn't they see me?

393

Why would they let their

dog cross in front of me?"

394

And that is just…

395

I was going through life looking

for evidence that would validate

396

this belief that I was the, I

was personally victimized all the

397

time from other people's actions.

398

And that is just a symptom of

living a life where you do feel…

399

Because as a child, like you said,

everything is big when you're a child.

400

When you're a child you are

the victim of people's actions

401

because you don't have any agency.

402

But as an adult you have agency.

403

And so I ha- finally had to say

to myself, "You know what, Megan?

404

You just really can't go around feeling

like, letting the neighbor who's walking

405

their dog just ruin your whole day,"

that is just- Not that the emotional

406

drunkenness of that life is just, it warps

your perspective, 'cause it, it validates

407

the old belief that you have no control

when in fact we actually do have a lot

408

more agency and control than we feel.

409

And I love that you said that

because we always say, people are

410

like, "Awareness is everything."

411

And I'm like, "Awareness is the

first step, without a doubt."

412

Yeah.

413

But once you become aware, now

it's your responsibility to change

414

how you start looking at things.

415

And you have a choice every day.

416

Every day, every situation, you

can get angry, you can be happy.

417

You can look at the positive,

you can look at the negative.

418

And yeah, sometimes you might

have to do a little negotiating

419

with yourself to do that.

420

But you do have agency

and you do have a choice.

421

And talk about how, what were the

things that you went through to make

422

yourself, I don't wanna say make

yourself, but get yourself steered

423

in the right direction of starting

to make those more positive choices,

424

and looking for evidence that your

inner dialogue was not always correct?

425

Yeah.

426

I do…

427

Okay, wait, can you ask

the question one more time?

428

So basically you're having these

thoughts and you're, you know in your

429

mind you're reacting to the feeling that

everybody always needs something from me.

430

What is the thought

process you went through?

431

Like, how did you change?

432

Like, how did you start making those

shifts to- Yeah … to not necessarily

433

doing the 50, I know you did the 50,

let's count 50 people, and the games and

434

stuff like that, but just on a regular

basis so that in the moment, because I

435

think that's where people really struggle.

436

They know, they know logically

what they should do, and they know

437

logically that it's ridiculous, and

they've already sh- found the evidence

438

for the fact that this is not true.

439

And but in the moment is- … when they're

going to make those knee-jerk reactions.

440

How did you start kinda s-

halting that a little bit?

441

That is such a great question.

442

If it's not already

obvious, I'm a big tracker.

443

I actually, and this is why the whole

re-parenting thing I took it literally.

444

I was like…

445

and I also should say, I at one

point in my past lives taught

446

kindergarten for a few years.

447

So all those tools that I used with

kindergarten students, they applied to

448

adults who are in recovery and trying

to change their behaviors, because

449

kindergarten is all about socialization

and behavior and it's the first time

450

that metacognition really comes online

for kids, and so it's h- teaching them

451

how to think about their thinking.

452

So I used a lot of the same strategies.

453

I tracked, I would say to myself so

awareness is the first step, right?

454

So I would say, "Okay I've been

observing myself for a little while

455

and I know that I get really triggered

around these things, so let me try

456

to incentivize some new behaviors."

457

And I literally got a

chore chart from Etsy.

458

I found a really nice one.

459

It's like- You're so cute.

460

I am.

461

I'm a kindergarten teacher.

462

That, I should've been a kindergarten

teacher in my for the, in, in a

463

parallel life I am one, so yeah, like

I literally got a chore chart, and I

464

literally would give myself stickers

and I'd be like, "If I do, if I

465

respond favorably in, in a situation

that would otherwise be triggering,"

466

like I would give myself a sticker.

467

Or if I let me see if I can get out of

the house and do a walk in the morning

468

before I check my email or something.

469

And if I did that, I would give

myself a sticker, and I would see

470

how many days I could do it in a row.

471

Just to sh- just to kinda show myself

that I have con- I have agency.

472

I have control over the

choices that I make.

473

Now th- are you gonna be perfect?

474

No, you certainly cannot expect

perfection with your- from yourself.

475

And that is where having the tools to s-

to self-regulate come in really handy.

476

Like one thing that is just really-

helpful and practical is just naming it.

477

Like a lot of adult children are

so divorced from the emotions that

478

we feel, and then that adds to

the emotional drunkenness, right?

479

Is that we have an emotion and

then we try to suppress the emotion

480

'cause it was always unsafe for us

to have the emotion in the past.

481

And then we c- don't even know how to

name it because it's so squashed down

482

that it starts ruling all of our, you

know, and then we, but then we're s-

483

subconsciously reacting to it, so it's

ruling all of our decision-making.

484

So I think just naming it can be really

helpful and realizing that the, the

485

walls aren't gonna come crumbling down.

486

Hopefully listeners have some

relationships with people in their

487

life where they can do that safely.

488

You might act unfavorably at a dinner or

something with a friend, and then you can

489

reflect on it and say, "Oh, I'm so sorry.

490

I shouldn't have said

that," or, "You know what?

491

That insult just flew out of my mouth.

492

I didn't mean that.

493

That was sarcastic, and I'm sorry.

494

I was feeling protective of you," or,

"I was feeling protective of myself,"

495

or I think just being able to name it "I

bought this pack of cigarettes because I

496

was stressed and I was feeling stressed."

497

Just being able to say "I am

feeling stressed right now in my

498

body"- … can be extremely powerful.

499

And being able to name where you feel it.

500

I'm putting my hands on my chest.

501

I feel, I always feel it right

here in my chest and in my throat.

502

Some people clench their fists.

503

Some people, they feel

it in their shoulders.

504

Shoulders go up.

505

Yeah, I was gonna say, the shoulders

go up or sometimes you get that

506

pit in your stom- it's a million

different ways, and it's…

507

I love that you said that.

508

That is so important to name, to know

where you're feeling it in your body-

509

because that's where you're holding it.

510

That's- Yeah … and I do a lot of

energy work with just breathing into

511

that spot and literally bringing that

energy to that exact spot that you're

512

feeling the tension, the stress, the

whatever it is and sitting with it and

513

knowing that any emotion is going to, if

you, unless you keep provoking it, it's

514

going to pass in less than 90 seconds.

515

90 seconds or less.

516

I love that, that fact.

517

That is such a comforting fact.

518

And I remember even one time I…

519

This is something I tell myself a lot.

520

Emotions won't kill me.

521

Emotions are- … not ever gonna hurt you.

522

The ways that I react to them

can, and have, and certainly

523

have put me in danger before.

524

But the emotion itself is just it's

like a wave, and so if you can s- if

525

you can learn to sit with it and then

say it, naming it out loud, almost

526

like you're watching clouds pass by

or if you like to go swimming in the

527

ocean, like you're, you can feel the

wave pick you up, and then you can feel

528

the wave put you back down, and your

to- your toes touch the sand again.

529

It's- It's like that.

530

And then if you…

531

So first feeling it, and then naming

where you feel it in your body, and

532

then if you can name it, developing

a vocabulary for your emotions.

533

And then conversationally being able to

say it to friends and trusted loved ones.

534

That's where meetings come in really

handy because you have, three, two or

535

three-minute shares, and you can just say,

"Today I w- woke up feeling really ashamed

536

of things that I had done in the past,

and I noticed that shame in my chest.

537

And then I went to the coffee shop,

and I was embarrassed because I

538

forgot my wallet, and I felt foolish.

539

And then I went back and got my wallet,

and I was proud that I had put it

540

somewhere, that I would remember."

541

And so it's like suddenly we're

naming all the things, like shame,

542

embarrassment, pride ha- and then

I was happy that I saw my friend.

543

Just being able to narrate three minutes

of your day can be extremely powerful.

544

And the great thing about meetings

is that you're not getting feedback.

545

No one's workshopping you.

546

No one's trying to argue with you.

547

Nobody's saying "Why

did you feel that way?"

548

Or, "Oh, don't feel bad."

549

It's like you're just allowed to

say, "I feel bad," and- … and

550

be witnessed in that.

551

And it's funny with ACA meetings, I notice

I get just as mu- I have s- clients that

552

come to me, and they're like, "I just

wanna share what I shared in the ACA

553

meeting because I wanted some feedback."

554

Some people want that, it is

a non-judgmental, and you do.

555

You talk for two or three minutes, and

you tell your story, and then they're

556

like, "Thank you for your share."

557

And I've had people come to me and

go, "I wanted them to say something

558

or give me some input or d-" and I'm

like that's what the, the groups on

559

the side are for," that's what your,

your- Yeah, and fellowship … your

560

group coaching or whatever you do.

561

But- Yeah … I ha- it's f- it is

funny that many of my people that

562

I talk to, we start our visit with-

Okay, what happened in your meeting

563

that you weren't able to finish?

564

Yeah.

565

So but it is- Yeah … it's a different…

566

It's flipping it around.

567

It's a different perspective because

as an ACA, you also want to know

568

that you were seen and heard and

validated, and you don't know what's

569

on the other side of those thinking.

570

So it goes- Yeah … both ways.

571

But I agree with you.

572

It's just nice to be able to

say it out loud because- Yeah

573

there's…

574

it's more powerful to say it out loud

or put it on a piece of paper to get

575

it physically out of your body than to

just think it, and they've proven that.

576

Yeah.

577

Yes.

578

Affirmations, if you say

them out loud, are more…

579

They raise your dopamine higher

than if you just think them.

580

Because you're keeping it in your

body, and I think that goes- Yeah

581

back to the mind-body, that

whole- Connection … the

582

whole mind-body connection.

583

Yeah, absolutely.

584

So- 'Cause you're building a neural

pathway every time you either take an

585

action or say something or, or it's

like you're building a memory and a

586

neural pathway and, you're linking a

thought to your voice and to your mouth.

587

It's like the motor, all of the, the motor

functions are on and working together.

588

And- Yep … we're deeply

somatic, and we're deeply social.

589

Yes.

590

So I think people just honoring that.

591

It…

592

we're so somat- So the more you

can get into your body and then

593

the more you can be witnessed

that's how we exist as humans.

594

Oh, yeah.

595

And yeah.

596

Yeah, and I love that you said that

with the neural pathways because I was

597

picturing that when you were talking

about the 50 things and the evidence,

598

showing yourself that this is n- actually

not true because you're building a new

599

pathway to believe something different.

600

And eventually anything, people are

always like this is just the way I am.

601

That's how I was raised.

602

That's how I was taught.

603

That's what I believe now."

604

Anything that you can believe

right now can be changed.

605

Yeah.

606

You can change that, and it's

just by going with your theories

607

of think something different.

608

If you think something different,

eventually enough your brain is going

609

to be wired that way to look for that,

and that is one of the things, that

610

is one of my biggest tips with people

that are adult children of any kind of

611

dysfunction that are wired to look for

the positive, is when something bad

612

happens, let's say you stub your toe.

613

Let's just take that, right?

614

You stub your toe, and

you're thinking, "Oh, my God.

615

That hurt so bad.

616

That's terrible.

617

Blah, blah, blah."

618

That's okay though.

619

I didn't break my toe.

620

Yeah.

621

I stubbed my toe.

622

I could have broken my toe,

and I didn't, so I'm happy.

623

And I know it's- … so hard to think

like that, but if you always find the

624

good in something, eventually your brain

will be wired to look for the good.

625

I use the example of my

husband and I in the car.

626

He has the worst road rage in the

world, and it just drives- … me crazy.

627

And I remember one time-

Road rage people crack me up.

628

They crack me up because they're

not o- they're often not angry in

629

real life, but then it's like they

all, they channel it in the car.

630

That's where they allow it to come out.

631

Yeah, and it's crazy.

632

And one time I remember this car

like, foom, cut us off, and my

633

husband's, "Bah bah," saying all

the words and sh- throwing all

634

the gestures and all that stuff.

635

And I'm thinking to myself, "Man, I'm

so glad I'm not in such a hurry that

636

I have to cut people off in traffic."

637

And I had a smile on my face, and I

know, I just kn- I could feel- … like

638

him staring through my soul like,

"Why are you so happy right now?"

639

But it takes a long time to do

that, but I tell you, wow, what a

640

difference when you just everything.

641

You can practice it.

642

Everything that happens.

643

You drop something on the ground.

644

Wow, I'm glad it didn't break.

645

Just flip the b- flip the story.

646

I m- I've been doing- Did

you- … NLP for many years.

647

Go ahead.

648

I was gonna ask, did you read the part

in the book about my breaking my foot?

649

No.

650

Okay.

651

'Cause I was like, "You did your

homework before this call," 'cause

652

I actually talked about that.

653

So when I started embracing this whole

th- in the book I talk about the first

654

step is seeking expanding evidence,

and then making the subconscious

655

conscience, like conscious and

realizing the thoughts that you have.

656

… And I kinda talk about how I

started that whole process.

657

And then I was like, "And then I

got, I got the opportunity to…

658

I got the final exam.

659

I got the opportunity to put this all

into practice," because very shortly after

660

I started tracking all of my behavior

and, putting myself on a better path and

661

I was a good little student about it.

662

I was putting, giving myself my stickers.

663

I fell and broke my foot, and it

was the most random accident ever.

664

It was because I, my foot had fallen

asleep and I didn't realize that it

665

was asleep, and then I tried to walk

on it and w- and it didn't work.

666

It didn't function, and I broke my foot.

667

And I was like, "Oh, are you kidding me?"

668

And I kinda challenged myself.

669

I was like let's just see if I can

still find expanding evidence."

670

If I can still go out in the world

and look for possibilities as

671

opposed to use this as a reason

to just give up on everything.

672

And I will say in my life I finally…

673

I had quit my job fairly recent,

fairly fairly close to that time.

674

And so f- finally the stakes

were high enough that I had to.

675

I couldn't not I couldn't crumble

because I had made this decision

676

to quit my job and go freelance

full time and become self-employed.

677

And it was a motivator because I

was like, I can't give up here.

678

I have to continue practicing

what I preach, and I have to

679

continue challenging myself to see

possibilities everywhere that I go."

680

And when I tell you I had the best time.

681

I went to the airport, and

it was like, as soon as my…

682

I was, my- I actually laugh with my

mom about this story 'cause my mom and

683

I, we have we share a sense of humor.

684

It's the one, one of the ways

that we stay in touch as adults.

685

We don't m- we're not fully estranged,

and we we still talk occasionally.

686

And I really love that my mom and I

share a similar sense of humor because

687

we're both equally as dramatic and and

like theatrical in our imaginations.

688

And so I'd go to the airport.

689

My f- I get out.

690

I have this boot on my foot, and the,

as soon as my boot hit the sidewalk, I'm

691

telling you, these people, the attendants,

they all went, "She's got a boot.

692

She's got a boot."

693

And they just surrounded me,

and they put me in a wheelchair.

694

And I had somebody escorting me to the

gate, and I had somebody push- getting me

695

through security faster than everybody.

696

And it was like I felt like

I was in a five-star hotel.

697

It was just every- everything

I needed was taken care of.

698

And I always say Did I get that

treatment only because I had decided to

699

have a positive attitude that morning?

700

No.

701

There are lots of factors at play

that are outside of my control.

702

I don't think people should try to, only

expect life to be perfect all the time.

703

But I will say had I been in a different

mindset, had I been in a state of

704

mind where I was looking for all of

the ways that people were wronging

705

me and I had showed up to the airport

combative and skeptical and afraid,

706

then I might have refused their help.

707

I might have said "What are you doing?

708

Don't touch my bag."

709

"I got this.

710

I got it."

711

Or they…

712

Or honestly, they might just not

have even been drawn to help you.

713

That's true.

714

Because I, My biggest thing in this

right now, my biggest message to people

715

is the energy that you put into the

world is the energy that you get back

716

out of the world, and that is why the

positive and the flipping things in

717

your mind, no matter what, it- Yeah

718

because you're putting positive

frequencies out into the world, and

719

you're gonna get back more of that.

720

So if you're looking at evidence of

things going wrong, the universe is

721

gonna give you more things to go wrong.

722

If you're looking at evidence

of everything being okay, the

723

universe is going to give you more

evidence of everything being okay,

724

and I truly believe that 100%.

725

Me too.

726

I love it.

727

The universe is "Oh,

that's how you see it?

728

You want more of that?

729

That's how you see it?

730

You want more of that?

731

Oh, that's how you see it?

732

You see the world as a helpful,

benign place that assists you,

733

at your every waking need?

734

Oh, great.

735

Here's more of evidence of that.

736

Here's more evidence of that."

737

Yeah.

738

And it's just it's…

739

Life has just become this game

of how long can I surf that?

740

Like, how long can I just

s- milk that feel-good?

741

And and that's not to say that I don't

have sad days and I don't have emotions.

742

Of course I do.

743

Of course I do.

744

I'm just not- I'm just not

getting high on my emotions.

745

I'm just not letting my emotions activate,

my cortisol levels to the point where

746

I'm ready to fight people and I'm

ready to, And I'm c- creating these

747

narratives in my head that it just create

rifts, that, that seep into all of my

748

relationships, when I, when there's…

749

Go ahead.

750

No, go ahead.

751

No, I was just gonna say, you're not

letting your emotions control you.

752

They're not running your life.

753

They're not writing the story.

754

You're having them.

755

You're regulating.

756

You're acknowledging them.

757

You're going through them, and

then you're regulating, and

758

you're coming back to square one.

759

And your base level is now at a

one or a two, where I'm sure if

760

I asked you, I don't know how

many years ago, "What's your base

761

level of stress on a daily basis?"

762

It's gonna be seven to nine.

763

That seems to be, of the 300

people I asked- Wow … I would

764

say 80% of them said seven to nine.

765

Wow.

766

Seven to nine- On a base level.

767

That's- And I have no idea.

768

It's seven to nine, and I couldn't e- I'm

shocked at that fact because I thought

769

that was normal, yeah, and everybody's

walking around and you just say, "When

770

you woke up, how stressed were you?"

771

And they're like, "Seven.

772

About a seven.

773

About an eight."

774

Yeah.

775

I'm like, oh my God, and you

haven't even gone into the day yet.

776

I'm like- Yeah … so how about

wake up and put Louise Hay on?

777

Because if nothing else-

778

Yes.

779

Yeah, I love a good, I love a good

Abraham-Hicks, like- Yeah, just- … put

780

it on for five minutes and just make

yourself wake up in the morning,

781

look around the room, and find five

things that'll make you grateful

782

or thankful or just not negative.

783

People wake up- Yeah … and the

first thing they do is check their

784

bank accounts on their phone.

785

I'm like, stop.

786

Don't do that.

787

That sets the tone for the entire day.

788

That is the frequency that

you are now going out with.

789

Yeah.

790

And it's interesting too, 'cause a- as

we're talking, I'm making a connection.

791

I'm like, oh, those helpful attendants

who wheeled me and escorted me to my

792

gate- It's like my- I see my emotions that

way, they come to me with information.

793

They're pissed off about something.

794

Oh, forgive me, am I allowed

to say that on, on here?

795

You can say whatever you want.

796

Okay, yeah.

797

They're pissed off about something.

798

They're, in disdain.

799

I have this one inner child, and I

just call her Sarah Saboteur, and

800

she just wants to sabotage everything

that I do because, "How can I go on?

801

Life is just so terrible," and how the…

802

she's, she just cannot…

803

The injustice of the world is so grave

to her, and she just- she weeps at

804

it all, and it's like these, these

are my emotions, and they're- and I

805

experience them, but I see them like

those messenger- or not those messengers.

806

I see them like those

attendees at the airport.

807

I see them like they're here to

tell me information that I need.

808

They're here to guide me in the

direction that I need to go.

809

They're like my loyal my loyal

posse, what would I do without them?

810

But the- but even they are here to

help me because I have decided that

811

I'm somebody who is going to have

a favorable life and who's going

812

to be pointed towards solutions.

813

And so when I have a- an intense

emotion now, I'm like, "Thank you.

814

This is information that I need as

I steer my ship towards the solution

815

that is gonna benefit us all," amen.

816

So when…

817

Is your book already out?

818

It comes out in a week.

819

Oh, okay.

820

So this'll be- Yeah … airing

after it actually comes out.

821

But we will do- I'll do an email

before, on launch day if you want,

822

and send out to my people, and then

preemptively get them ready for

823

the la- for the episode coming out.

824

That would be super fun.

825

Tell people, Megan, tell people

if they wanna work with you what

826

you do now in this capacity,

and where they can find you.

827

Yes, I, And thank you.

828

I, right now I'm writing, so you

can find me over at Substack.

829

My Substack is The Unimaginably Good Life.

830

And I'm a travel writer, so I do

have an unimaginably good life.

831

I get to travel to really fun places.

832

And I'm gonna be pouring more of that

into the Substack, and then I'm also gonna

833

be continuing this conversation about

emotional spritie and emotional recovery.

834

So find me over there.

835

Perfect.

836

So where can they find you?

837

Just on your Substack, and we'll

have that in the show notes?

838

Yeah.

839

That's the best place to go?

840

Yep.

841

Okay.

842

And then if anybody wants to get a

preview of the book, you can go to

843

my website, megan divadio dot com,

and there's a place there where the

844

first chapter is available for free.

845

Okay.

846

Perfect.

847

And oh, this was fun.

848

This was…

849

We had two episodes,

and it was just- I know

850

super fun.

851

So thank you so much for coming on.

852

Tammy, thank you for inviting me back and

being one of the first first places that

853

I've been able to talk to about this work.

854

I don't often get interviewed,

and this was such a delight, and I

855

feel seen and witnessed, and I feel

appreciated, so thank you for having me.

856

It's been really fun.

857

Oh you are very welcome.

858

But before you go, and

you're not off the hook.

859

Ah.

860

If you had to give the listeners

one big words of wisdom, piece of

861

advice, or something they can take

with them to make their day a little

862

brighter, what would that message be?

863

Yeah.

864

I think since, like we've been

talking a lot about emotions in this

865

episode, I think just keep in mind, I

would say keep in mind that the word

866

emotion just means energy in motion.

867

It's got the word motion right there.

868

So it's not gonna last forever.

869

It's gonna move through you.

870

When we allow emotions to move

through us, then they usually s-

871

you know, dissipate like a wave.

872

So I would say just keep that

in mind, and be comforted by the

873

fact that they are ephemeral.

874

And yeah, if you can surf the

good ones, surf the good ones.

875

Amen.

876

Thank you so much again, Megan.

877

I appreciate you.

878

And for everybody else out

there listening, come back,

879

listen to the last episode.

880

We just did another episode

just right before this one.

881

Grab Megan's book when it's ready.

882

It'll be in the show notes, and you

all have a blessed and wonderful day,

883

and know that, like she said, energy,

emotion is just energy in motion.

884

Keep it positive.

885

The more positive energy you

put into the world, the more

886

positive you're gonna get back.

887

So love you all, and

you have a blessed day.