In this episode, a Buddhist monk shares the benefits of being other focused vs self focused. Focusing on one self oftentimes can leave us unhappy and unfulfilled. In this podcast we discuss why focusing on the other or developing an other focused mind opens us up to happiness and a more fulfilled life.
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Today Dreamer hosts conversations to help individuals cultivate their practice of presence. The intention is to provide an inspirational space for integrating dreaming and doing into being. If you’re interested in cultivating your practice of presence in service to a blossoming of the emergent world story then please feel free to subscribe here:
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Michael Barticel (host of Today Dreamer) is a podcast host, sacred space holder, meditation teacher and videographer from Melbourne, Australia.If you’re interested in working with Michael one-on-one feel free to check out the website for more information: https://www.todaydreamer.com/workwithme
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Welcome to another episode of the today dreamer
Michael Barticel (Host):podcast, where we explore through conversational space ways in which
Michael Barticel (Host):to develop our practice of presence.
Michael Barticel (Host):Integrating dreaming and doing into being in service of a blossoming
Michael Barticel (Host):of the emergent world story.
Michael Barticel (Host):This is why the show is alive.
Michael Barticel (Host):And it's here for you.
Michael Barticel (Host):This conversation is also here for you.
Michael Barticel (Host):A little while ago.
Michael Barticel (Host):I met up actually quite a while ago.
Michael Barticel (Host):I met up with a Buddhist monk to talk about life.
Michael Barticel (Host):Yeah.
Michael Barticel (Host):People have just from all over the world, really engaged with that conversation
Michael Barticel (Host):and found a lot of value from it.
Michael Barticel (Host):So I decided to meet up again with the same Buddhist monk, uh, again,
Michael Barticel (Host):Don king from the Cadabra meditation center in Monbulk Victoria, Australia.
Michael Barticel (Host):Yeah.
Michael Barticel (Host):And we had a conversation about the true path to happiness.
Michael Barticel (Host):And this is that conversation.
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Michael Barticel (Host):What else is there to say?
Michael Barticel (Host):Well, I don't think there is too much else before getting into
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Michael Barticel (Host):If you're watching on YouTube, let's, um, let's take a breath together before
Michael Barticel (Host):moving into the conversational space.
Michael Barticel (Host):So I'd like to invite you now, wherever you are amongst whatever's been going
Michael Barticel (Host):on in your day to just pause if it feels right, gently close your eyes now.
Michael Barticel (Host):So we can do that together.
Michael Barticel (Host):Just began by slowly, yet, naturally taking a deep breath in through the
Michael Barticel (Host):nose and into the depths of your belly.
Michael Barticel (Host):It's kind of a slow as naturally possible.
Michael Barticel (Host):I mean, enjoy the feeling, the subtleties of the breath.
Michael Barticel (Host):Take your time with it.
Michael Barticel (Host):Whenever you reach the peak.
Michael Barticel (Host):Just pause for a moment.
Michael Barticel (Host):Now, anything that's happened to just float away, calming the
Michael Barticel (Host):mind and easing any tension.
Michael Barticel (Host):When you feel called the deuce.
Michael Barticel (Host):Gracefully exhale on the way out, further releasing any tension from the body.
Michael Barticel (Host):My
Michael Barticel (Host):also take your time with this part.
Michael Barticel (Host):When you get to the bottom, the exhale, you can pause for a moment there as well.
Michael Barticel (Host):When you're ready, my eyes to gently open
Michael Barticel (Host):let's get into this conversation.
Michael Barticel (Host):Great.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So from, just from what you were saying, I guess most people
Gen Dornying (Monk):that journeying through life and to fulfill their own wishes, that's, that's
Gen Dornying (Monk):a default position for most people.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So when Buddha taught, he said, all living beings have one principle aspiration,
Gen Dornying (Monk):which is to make themself happy, not just the happiness of, um, enjoyments,
Gen Dornying (Monk):but, but deep and lasting eternal, uh, happiness without any suffering ever.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And that's a principle aspiration of each and every living being now, um,
Gen Dornying (Monk):we all set out in life to fulfill that wish to fulfill the wish I want to.
Gen Dornying (Monk):I want true and deep and everlasting pure happiness, but the very nature
Gen Dornying (Monk):of that wish is self-focused.
Gen Dornying (Monk):I.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Want to be happy, but, but also taught that focusing on oneself is
Gen Dornying (Monk):the greatest obstacle to being, to fulfilling a wish, to be truly happy.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And so at some point, and you mentioned earlier the inflection point at some
Gen Dornying (Monk):point in our spiritual and emotional development, maybe with the help
Gen Dornying (Monk):of meeting a spiritual guide or a spiritual teacher, at some point, we
Gen Dornying (Monk):realize that to fulfill that wish for ourself to be happy, we have to abandon
Gen Dornying (Monk):the wish for ourself to be happy and instead wish for others to be happy.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And so we start to the journey.
Gen Dornying (Monk):If you like, from one point of view, is this journey from a self-focused.
Gen Dornying (Monk):To an other focus place.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And as I was saying earlier, then perhaps the analogy that you, that
Gen Dornying (Monk):you could use to describe that is if you were trying to start a fire with
Gen Dornying (Monk):two sticks, I've never been able to do this, but apparently this is possible
Gen Dornying (Monk):that you rub two sticks together.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And I was never really a boy scout, but you rubbed the two sticks together
Gen Dornying (Monk):and eventually you'll make a fire.
Gen Dornying (Monk):But what do you do with the sticks?
Gen Dornying (Monk):The sticks are they're thrown into the fire in a similar way.
Gen Dornying (Monk):When we begin to understand that true and lasting happiness is
Gen Dornying (Monk):found in our love of others.
Gen Dornying (Monk):The self-focus motivation that if you like took us to that
Gen Dornying (Monk):realization is consumed by that love.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So we no longer have any self, um, concern.
Gen Dornying (Monk):We ha we only have other concern and it's only then that we
Gen Dornying (Monk):will realize what happiness.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Until then we will always be deceived by a notion of happiness that is, as we
Gen Dornying (Monk):talked about last time, as a notion of happiness, that may arguably be actually
Gen Dornying (Monk):just suffering, disguised as happiness.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Um, and, and how is that?
Gen Dornying (Monk):Well, this notion of this notion of happiness that is suffering
Gen Dornying (Monk):disguises, happiness is the reduction of a previous problem.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So for example, if I'm lonely and I develop attachment to
Gen Dornying (Monk):having a relationship, then it w the, the relationship will look
Gen Dornying (Monk):like happiness, but it's not.
Gen Dornying (Monk):It's a reduction of my previous problem of loneliness.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Many people get into a relationship thinking it will fulfill that wish
Gen Dornying (Monk):used to be happy, and they think, oh my gosh, I wish I was alone.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Or I wish my partner would take up a hobby.
Gen Dornying (Monk):I wish they'd go out because that's not the happiness is a feeling.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Uh, uh, peaceful, feeling a feeling that the rights from a peaceful mind
Gen Dornying (Monk):and ultimately focusing on ourselves always make us feel unpeaceful and
Gen Dornying (Monk):focusing on others, because it opens the mind would always give us peace.
Gen Dornying (Monk):You could divide meditation into, to contemplation, otherwise
Gen Dornying (Monk):known as analytical meditation.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And then the second type is placement meditation, which is a single pointedness
Gen Dornying (Monk):of mind in the Buddhist tradition.
Gen Dornying (Monk):We say that both have to be disciplined.
Gen Dornying (Monk):We won't reach our spiritual destination by just closing our eyes and allowing
Gen Dornying (Monk):the mind to wonder, even though, even though we may be wandering around very
Gen Dornying (Monk):meaningful topics about the nature of reality and the purpose of life and,
Gen Dornying (Monk):uh, how to fulfill our deepest wishes.
Gen Dornying (Monk):The meditative journey of contemplation and meditation
Gen Dornying (Monk):still has to be very disciplined.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And so one must have an idea of the objective and then the analytical
Gen Dornying (Monk):meditation, or the contemplation becomes a purposeful internal investigation, which
Gen Dornying (Monk):is always taking us towards our objective.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So for example, in this discussion so far, we're talking about the
Gen Dornying (Monk):idea that if I love others, I will fulfill my wishes to be happy.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So then we have to then take that a bit deeper by understanding.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Well, okay.
Gen Dornying (Monk):At the moment, there's a lot of emphasis on the thought I want
Gen Dornying (Monk):to be happy, so focused mind.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And so what is that mine?
Gen Dornying (Monk):And why does it need to be abandoned?
Gen Dornying (Monk):What is its nature and what are the faults of the mind and so on.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So then you might sit in contemplation considering what, for as long as I
Gen Dornying (Monk):want myself to be happy, I will start placing value on the things around
Gen Dornying (Monk):me that appear to give me pleasant feelings or appear to make me happy.
Gen Dornying (Monk):I will lower the value of things that appear indifferent to me.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And I may even start to reject the things that look like.
Gen Dornying (Monk):They might interfere with my happiness and cause me a problem.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And this has many, we would contemplate this in meditation
Gen Dornying (Monk):for as long as I'm focusing on my focusing on myself, I'm going to want
Gen Dornying (Monk):to draw towards me certain things.
Gen Dornying (Monk):I'm going to have a cold indifference towards many things, and I'm
Gen Dornying (Monk):going to want to push away other things now to start a fire.
Gen Dornying (Monk):It's not a stretch of the imagination to then think, well, if I, if I develop
Gen Dornying (Monk):these thoughts, I will naturally begin to crave certain things.
Gen Dornying (Monk):I will naturally begin to the anger or hatred towards other things.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And the result of this is that my mind is going to start doing this because
Gen Dornying (Monk):it'll be like life on the ocean waves.
Gen Dornying (Monk):I'm going to start bopping about on uncontrolled, emotional feelings that have
Gen Dornying (Monk):been determined by the way, I'm projecting my reality through craving and hatred.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And so on.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Many people think that the world around them, uh, exists inherently.
Gen Dornying (Monk):You know, I see a nice thing.
Gen Dornying (Monk):I feel good, but what's happening is because of the self-focus mind,
Gen Dornying (Monk):our S our pleasant feelings with respect to something, make it look.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Rather than it being inherently good.
Gen Dornying (Monk):That's why some people fall in love with certain people who others detest.
Gen Dornying (Monk):It's not the reality is not, it's not entirely objective.
Gen Dornying (Monk):It's subjective.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So if we were meditating on this, we'd think deep but deeply, we think,
Gen Dornying (Monk):well, um, what, what's the real worst excesses of a cell focused mind.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And then we start realizing, um, things like addiction, you know,
Gen Dornying (Monk):things like selfish behavior arguments and this harmony in the world.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And then we look at the global effect of everybody's selfishness and we can
Gen Dornying (Monk):see what, what happens in the world.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And we start thinking, this is point isn't it deeper, deeper, deeper.
Gen Dornying (Monk):This is a poisonous mind.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Um, then you might argue in your own contemplation and
Gen Dornying (Monk):you might object what I want.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Confidence, self esteem.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And so I need to focus on myself.
Gen Dornying (Monk):I need to focus on my good qualities, but then we can say, well, it's not out of
Gen Dornying (Monk):self-confidence or self-esteem that we get driven to the depths of alcoholism.
Gen Dornying (Monk):We, we give up our responsibilities or we, what was pain to someone because
Gen Dornying (Monk):we've developed anger, none of this leads to self-confidence herself,
Gen Dornying (Monk):steam, and then we can then much more naturally reach a conclusion I'm going
Gen Dornying (Monk):to love other, because we've had analyze very deeply what it is we're trying
Gen Dornying (Monk):to abandon and why we're trying to do it, Tane what we want to attain.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And if we do that in a very strict way, following these,
Gen Dornying (Monk):this controlled right word.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Yeah.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Controlled contemplation, purposeful investigation.
Gen Dornying (Monk):In our mind, we will then reach a single pointedness, almost a sense of liberation.
Gen Dornying (Monk):I would love for others.
Gen Dornying (Monk):I'm now free from selfish concern and it feels good.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And then we can use our imagination.
Gen Dornying (Monk):If we then imagine our mind space to be filled of all living beings.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And we transform our whole heart into the wish, may they all be happy?
Gen Dornying (Monk):And personally, I like to then imagine that my wish has some power and the,
Gen Dornying (Monk):in my imagination, I see them begin to smile and that feeds back into the
Gen Dornying (Monk):meditation because it makes it, it gives my meditation more confidence.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And then as we meditate on this, we can call it wishing love, wishing
Gen Dornying (Monk):up our mind become single pointed.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And then we get into the idea of what mindfulness is.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Once the mind is single pointed in this case on love, the ability to hold that.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Without any wondering now the conservation is finished, so no more wondering no more.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Um, considering other things we need to hold the experience of love
Gen Dornying (Monk):moment to moment to moment to moment.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And that holding is, is done by what we call in Buddhism.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Mindfulness.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Now mindfulness is really popular word.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Everybody's talking about mindfulness.
Gen Dornying (Monk):It's like the poster word for perhaps a multi-billion dollar spiritual
Gen Dornying (Monk):movement, but nobody really knows what it is like if we were to, if someone's
Gen Dornying (Monk):practicing mindfulness and we say, say to them, um, okay, well give me
Gen Dornying (Monk):a explanation of what mindfulness is.
Gen Dornying (Monk):People have many ideas, some people say, oh, it's just watching a thoughts
Gen Dornying (Monk):or being aware of your feelings.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Maybe letting your mind go blank.
Gen Dornying (Monk):But mindfulness is a, is it a term.
Gen Dornying (Monk):To describe a part of the mind, which we call mental factor or mental function.
Gen Dornying (Monk):It's the part of the mind that functions to remember what's a hold.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So if you're somebody who, who constantly loses their keys or leave
Gen Dornying (Monk):things in the pocket of an airplane, you know, if we're a person who forgets
Gen Dornying (Monk):things, then, then we, we are someone whose mindfulness is not very strong.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Someone who has a good, sharp memory, they have good mindfulness.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Mindfulness is like a muscle in the mind that can be trained like any muscle,
Gen Dornying (Monk):you know, like if you go to the gym and you, you keep lifting weights,
Gen Dornying (Monk):you will strengthen your muscles.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So by training in single pointedness, our mindfulness is becoming strong.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So mindfulness is not a practice as such.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Mindfulness is just the part of the mind that has the ability to hold
Gen Dornying (Monk):single pointedly and to remember.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So if in this case, we're meditating on this love, nice feeling, warm,
Gen Dornying (Monk):warm, heart arises, feeling of being close to all living beings.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Um, ho ho whole mind is pervaded by the wish may they be happy?
Gen Dornying (Monk):And then that whole experience is being held.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Single-pointed the moment to moment to moment to moment for one of them
Gen Dornying (Monk):or less for one of them more Buddhist expression, it's like killing two birds.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Of course we don't kill anything in Buddhism, but the, the ability to hold
Gen Dornying (Monk):that feeling is not only improving our happiness, the happiness of love, but
Gen Dornying (Monk):it's also strengthening our mindful.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So that we become sharper, clearer, more focused, more ability to remember
Gen Dornying (Monk):more ability to make spiritual progress, their ability to control
Gen Dornying (Monk):our emotions, overcoming emotional problems, or coming from a strong mind
Gen Dornying (Monk):or coming from exercising mindfulness.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So we can do this moment to moment to moment holding in meditation.
Gen Dornying (Monk):This feeling of love.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Please jump in at any point, if I'm talking too much, Michael,
Gen Dornying (Monk):but we, we meditate like this.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And then we go through a complete internal transformation of the
Gen Dornying (Monk):person we are, because our ability to hold that experience is changing
Gen Dornying (Monk):who we are because we begin as a person who's focused on themselves.
Gen Dornying (Monk):But through this chat, this holding these experiences in
Gen Dornying (Monk):meditation for a discipline, very controlled, very structured.
Gen Dornying (Monk):What is what comes out.
Gen Dornying (Monk):The other end of the meditation is a brand new person, because what is
Gen Dornying (Monk):a person just in that label, but the thought, I, you say the thought, um,
Gen Dornying (Monk):the thought me is the label given to the collection of my body, which is a machine.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And my mind should my mind be pervaded by love, then the thought I isn't, I who
Gen Dornying (Monk):is happy, an I that cherishes others.
Gen Dornying (Monk):We wake up in the mornings.
Gen Dornying (Monk):I am happy because that I is a label given principally to a mind that's
Gen Dornying (Monk):pervaded by good feelings coming from LA.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And that's only the beginning really, because eventually is there's
Gen Dornying (Monk):limitless possibility as to who we can become, which is ultimately
Gen Dornying (Monk):Buddhahood complete, fully enlightened.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Yeah, the potentiality
Michael Barticel (Host):is quite interesting in itself, but
Michael Barticel (Host):I'm drawn to the, I guess the significance of the initial ambition,
Gen Dornying (Monk):this idea of, um, be motivated by
Gen Dornying (Monk):selfishness, some, some clarity and
Michael Barticel (Host):some contemplation on what the ambition is.
Michael Barticel (Host):And they're all almost seems to be a sense of,
Gen Dornying (Monk):um,
Michael Barticel (Host):you know, see this time and time again with this
Michael Barticel (Host):idea of a feeling and you know, that word's also quite loaded, but feeling,
Michael Barticel (Host):um, a sense of love and then within your practice and then taking that
Michael Barticel (Host):feeling and holding it, um, and maybe applying it in different ways with
Michael Barticel (Host):like, um, as a mental exercise and then.
Michael Barticel (Host):You know, how does that fit into, how does that within your
Michael Barticel (Host):practice fit into your life?
Michael Barticel (Host):And like you mentioned, they kind of feed into one another and there's this
Michael Barticel (Host):kind of spiraling process that goes on.
Michael Barticel (Host):But I think the initial ambition and exploring that, um, seems
Michael Barticel (Host):like a significant thing to do.
Michael Barticel (Host):Seems like, and, and then even like revisiting what our ambition is and,
Michael Barticel (Host):and checking in with that, cause that seems to develop and change.
Michael Barticel (Host):I feel, um, maybe, maybe not the exact ambition, sometimes it would be, but
Michael Barticel (Host):it's also, uh, the words or the language we use to describe what that is.
Gen Dornying (Monk):When you say ambition, do you mean, do you mean,
Gen Dornying (Monk):what is it we want from life or.
Gen Dornying (Monk):What is it where we're going or what do we wish for, or what, when or
Gen Dornying (Monk):why do we become a spiritual person?
Gen Dornying (Monk):Or why do we enter the spiritual?
Michael Barticel (Host):
:I think all of that.
Michael Barticel (Host):
:And, um, and yeah, like what is the motivation behind what we're doing?
Michael Barticel (Host):
:Um, what's the,
Gen Dornying (Monk):you know,
Michael Barticel (Host):
:what are we doing here?
Michael Barticel (Host):
:And, and, and why are we doing any of this?
Gen Dornying (Monk):Um, that's a big question.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Gen Dornying (Monk):I mean just the, just the motivation of, of most people and I guess I'm
Gen Dornying (Monk):generalizing, but there are, there are many altruistic people in this world who
Gen Dornying (Monk):are striving to find a way of bringing great benefit to others and to this world.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Um, but at risk of generalizing, most people's ambition is
Gen Dornying (Monk):just, I want to be happy.
Gen Dornying (Monk):I think I want to be happy.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And it's, it is.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Depending on what appears in one's life and what various conditions arise.
Gen Dornying (Monk):It is finally that ambition, which is arguably selfish.
Gen Dornying (Monk):You know, I just want to be happy, but it is that motivation that finally will
Gen Dornying (Monk):lead people to realize to the, to the realization, if I'm going to be able to
Gen Dornying (Monk):do this, then I need to completely change.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Um, I need to completely change in a very profound way as part of your question.
Gen Dornying (Monk):I mean, it's the, why are we here?
Gen Dornying (Monk):Thing?
Gen Dornying (Monk):I mean, it's, it is related to a huge question.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Why are we here?
Gen Dornying (Monk):What is the meaning of life now?
Gen Dornying (Monk):If, if in terms of the meaning of life, if I'm principle, aspiration
Gen Dornying (Monk):is everlasting happiness and we find, or our subsequent wishes.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Are in line with that principle aspiration.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And since our main wish in our life is to be happy.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And we find a life that fulfills that wish then arguably, and we can go, we'll
Gen Dornying (Monk):go deeper into this in a moment, but on a, just on a surface level, if my wish
Gen Dornying (Monk):is to find everlasting happiness, and I find the means to fulfill that wish,
Gen Dornying (Monk):then I found the meaning of my life.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Well, we have to understand what is the lasting happiness.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And we need to probably go a bit deeper on that because I once gave that said
Gen Dornying (Monk):this in a teaching and later somebody who attended the teaching began to
Gen Dornying (Monk):fail that surfing was a virtue because for him surfing in his mind was the
Gen Dornying (Monk):source of everlasting happiness.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So in his mind, he said, I found the meaning of life because I go so.
Gen Dornying (Monk):But if surfing was really a true source of the hub of happiness, then the
Gen Dornying (Monk):more you sir, the happy you'd become.
Gen Dornying (Monk):But in reality, after about four hours, your body will start to
Gen Dornying (Monk):tell you that's enough, maybe six hours, maybe eight hours.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Maybe it's eventually, it's going to start to hurt.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Moreover, if, if surfing was where happiness came from, what would you do
Gen Dornying (Monk):if you lost the ability to it became sick and you lost the ability to surf?
Gen Dornying (Monk):Well, you became too old.
Gen Dornying (Monk):You'd be crushed.
Gen Dornying (Monk):If you felt that was a true source of happiness, you spiral into depression.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Therefore that's an incorrect statement.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So then we could say, okay, well, you would expect me to say, because
Gen Dornying (Monk):I'm a Buddhist monk in a piece is the true source of happiness,
Gen Dornying (Monk):therefore meditation choose.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Or that you'd expect me to say that.
Gen Dornying (Monk):But if, if you, um, new, even in your efforts to find happy, maybe
Gen Dornying (Monk):you found some peace, but if you knew that at some point in the future, you
Gen Dornying (Monk):still have the potential to suffer.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And you knew that even while you're enjoying your inner
Gen Dornying (Monk):peace, so-called inner peace.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And anyway, whether it's the softwaring of aging or this unknown sickness that
Gen Dornying (Monk):you may develop may develop terminal cancer, terminal illness, or just the
Gen Dornying (Monk):death process, even though you may be enjoying a peaceful mind and at a very
Gen Dornying (Monk):low level in your heart, we know as human beings that these things are coming and
Gen Dornying (Monk):so deep down there will be a low level anxiety that interferes with that peace.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And therefore we need an even greater.
Gen Dornying (Monk):If we are to find a meaning of life, we need an even greater spiritual
Gen Dornying (Monk):ambition to find permanent liberation.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Now what that is and how to do that.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So is it maybe discussion?
Gen Dornying (Monk):We have a bit later, but in terms of, so say you find that say you
Gen Dornying (Monk):actually developed such profound peace for realizing whatever.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Like last time we discussed the nature of cell, say we discover such a profound
Gen Dornying (Monk):piece that Def will no longer cause us a problem, but you then realize in
Gen Dornying (Monk):your heart and the depth of your ex, your ex, your meditation, the people
Gen Dornying (Monk):you love are still suffering, or they're still going to suffer again.
Gen Dornying (Monk):You can't say you found lasting happiness because it's very difficult
Gen Dornying (Monk):to be able to say, I am truly happy in the knowledge that people you
Gen Dornying (Monk):love still have potential for sex.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And eventually, of course, if we get the first meditation,
Gen Dornying (Monk):right, that'd be everybody.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So even, even the strength of mind that stops us, fearing death is not enough.
Gen Dornying (Monk):It's not real everlasting eternal happiness, because otherwise
Gen Dornying (Monk):it'd be like being imprisoned.
Gen Dornying (Monk):It'd be like, we were in prisons with our mother.
Gen Dornying (Monk):We found a way out, but we left our mother.
Gen Dornying (Monk):You know, we we'd never be able to live with ourselves.
Gen Dornying (Monk):If we got out of this situation where we were in prison or I'm free.
Gen Dornying (Monk):I found my liberation you'd know in the back of your
Gen Dornying (Monk):mind, you left your mum there.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So in a similar way, if we are to find the highest levels of happiness, finally,
Gen Dornying (Monk):we need to dedicate our own being in this world to the liberation of everyone.
Gen Dornying (Monk):It doesn't mean we necessarily achieve.
Gen Dornying (Monk):In our life, although how wonderful, if we do, we achieve a state of
Gen Dornying (Monk):mind that can draw everybody to the same state, how wonderful.
Gen Dornying (Monk):But if we are using that as our trajectory through life, I'm working for the
Gen Dornying (Monk):benefit of each and every living being, then I think you could find the true
Gen Dornying (Monk):meaning of life and true happiness.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And I think that's where it lies in that hugely altruistic,
Gen Dornying (Monk):deeply compassionate space.
Gen Dornying (Monk):How'd you do it?
Gen Dornying (Monk):That's a big question.
Gen Dornying (Monk):How did you, yeah.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Yeah, it's
Michael Barticel (Host):almost, it seems as though in some sense that it
Michael Barticel (Host):may be like an impossible task, but it doesn't mean that it shouldn't be striped
Gen Dornying (Monk):for precisely know.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Yeah.
Gen Dornying (Monk):It's interesting.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Because it's not about, it's not about your actions.
Gen Dornying (Monk):It's about who you feel you are in terms of perfect mental stability and
Gen Dornying (Monk):inner peace and emotional strength.
Gen Dornying (Monk):It's it's to know what I up, I abide in this world for the sake of all beings.
Gen Dornying (Monk):I mean, that's a tremendous source of self-confidence.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Um, it's a self confidence that comes from not having a self, you know, no ego.
Gen Dornying (Monk):It's just, Hmm.
Gen Dornying (Monk):I'm just striving to become a force of good.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Of course.
Gen Dornying (Monk):If you could misunderstand that you could become hugely ego mystical.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Couldn't it.
Gen Dornying (Monk):I am a force for good and as well, it's, it's a much, it's a selfless state whereby
Gen Dornying (Monk):the mind has just become a servant.
Gen Dornying (Monk):It's much more lowest of all than highest of all.
Michael Barticel (Host):There's traps, peppered within everywhere.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Um, you know, is a good expression.
Gen Dornying (Monk):They're all indeed.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Everywhere.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Yeah.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Um,
Michael Barticel (Host):so what's coming to me at the moment is this idea
Michael Barticel (Host):of we've spoken a lot about happiness.
Michael Barticel (Host):The, the words being used a lot of times, um, and suffering seems to be
Michael Barticel (Host):different types of suffering and different ways to navigate within suffering.
Michael Barticel (Host):And what's come clear to me what seems to be the case, um, over the
Michael Barticel (Host):last year or so, is this idea of, uh, sinking into suffering to, to enable
Gen Dornying (Monk):us to, uh,
Michael Barticel (Host):find compassion for others by recognizing the similarities
Gen Dornying (Monk):and to overcome,
Michael Barticel (Host):or kind of move into and through,
Gen Dornying (Monk):um, instead of.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Away from, and, you know, distract ourselves, but it
Michael Barticel (Host):seems like a very difficult thing to do.
Michael Barticel (Host):It seems like the most difficult thing to do.
Michael Barticel (Host):And the thing that, you know, from a primal sense, we don't, we kind of
Michael Barticel (Host):trying to stay away from, or there's like this innate fear or this kind of,
Michael Barticel (Host):uh, tension, you know, it's almost like
Gen Dornying (Monk):going
Michael Barticel (Host):into our suffering or scuff, the
Michael Barticel (Host):suffering more skillfully
Gen Dornying (Monk):suffering skillfully.
Gen Dornying (Monk):It's it's a great term.
Michael Barticel (Host):Yeah.
Michael Barticel (Host):It's a difficult thing.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Yeah.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Yeah.
Gen Dornying (Monk):It could do a course how to suffer skill for me.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Yeah.
Gen Dornying (Monk):I don't know how popular many people would take that.
Gen Dornying (Monk):I can.
Gen Dornying (Monk):I think it's about it's about clarity and discipline in order to
Gen Dornying (Monk):be able to determine exactly what is.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Suffering to be able to really hone in on what is suffering.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Because again, a lot of people feel that suffering is the theater that's sort of,
Gen Dornying (Monk):um, that the sufferings of response to.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So it, when, when Buddha taught, he said the very essence of any problem
Gen Dornying (Monk):is pain, painful feeling in the mind, painful feeling and that everything
Gen Dornying (Monk):that we believe to be suffering is really just the circumstances that
Gen Dornying (Monk):are triggering the painful feelings.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And so, but as human beings, we often say, well, my suffering
Gen Dornying (Monk):is, is the circumstances.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And so we devote a lot of time and energy to trying to navigate the circumstances,
Gen Dornying (Monk):but we never devote any time and energy to being able to control the feelings.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And so, as a result, we never free ourselves from suffering, which
Gen Dornying (Monk):is find ourselves going from.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So-called source of suffering to another.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And that also in terms of, I think what you were getting at was using our
Gen Dornying (Monk):suffering to have compassion for others.
Gen Dornying (Monk):It also becomes more difficult to do that because we haven't clarified what
Gen Dornying (Monk):is suffering very clearly for ourself.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Um, just to take a lighthearted example, once I was teaching in, um, in new south
Gen Dornying (Monk):Wales and Newcastle lake Macquarie, and that day I'd met a lady who was
Gen Dornying (Monk):renovating her investment property.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So she had a home and then she had this other property and, uh,
Gen Dornying (Monk):she couldn't decide what floor to put in the investment property.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And it caused her huge emotional distress to the point where she was, um, in tears.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Now that night, when I was giving the talk.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Um, I used her as an example, and somebody hack or like someone
Gen Dornying (Monk):shouted out in the group and said, well, she deserves to suffer.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So suggesting that, you know, this is someone who's wealthy, got everything
Gen Dornying (Monk):and she's become some miserable over a floor or she deserved to suffer.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And I thought it was very interesting because maybe for that person changing
Gen Dornying (Monk):a floor is makes no difference.
Gen Dornying (Monk):It's, uh, it's menial.
Gen Dornying (Monk):It's, uh, it's, it's stupid.
Gen Dornying (Monk):But what you can't do is say that that woman's suffering was not real, but
Gen Dornying (Monk):that person was really suffering just because the person in the crowd wouldn't
Gen Dornying (Monk):have found those circumstances enough to trigger emotional pain, they cannot deny.
Gen Dornying (Monk):But this other person is in pain and therefore that person couldn't
Gen Dornying (Monk):have compassion for that lady because this person is not really
Gen Dornying (Monk):understanding what is suffering.
Gen Dornying (Monk):How do we get
Michael Barticel (Host):
:from that point of, okay.
Michael Barticel (Host):
:Even if this person was to realize that, you know, this
Michael Barticel (Host):
:lady was suffering from her own
Gen Dornying (Monk):delusions,
Michael Barticel (Host):how do we move past the realization to the
Michael Barticel (Host):felt, experience and match things up so we can kind of sync up and feel
Michael Barticel (Host):into, uh, the suffering of the other person, even though it's not ours.
Michael Barticel (Host):And even though we wouldn't suffer in the same circumstance because
Gen Dornying (Monk):you know, it's
Michael Barticel (Host):just flooring.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Well, you know, um, we don't have to wait
Gen Dornying (Monk):very long until we experienced that.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Suffering.
Gen Dornying (Monk):I mean, suffering does tend to befall us fairly effortlessly.
Gen Dornying (Monk):I mean, how happiness eludes us suffering comes with our choice.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So what we have to do is if we're going to learn this empathy, we have to
Gen Dornying (Monk):start to, and this is where I think you were going with suffering skillfully.
Gen Dornying (Monk):I think we have to start to use our own suffering more.
Gen Dornying (Monk):For example, if something goes wrong in our life and we ourselves start to
Gen Dornying (Monk):experience some emotional problem, the compassionate practitioner will use the
Gen Dornying (Monk):suffering that we're experiencing as an example of the suffering of others.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Like for example, um, some pain comes up in some difficulty in our life and
Gen Dornying (Monk):we express with some painful feeling.
Gen Dornying (Monk):If we sit down, not do not be afraid of the feeling, just allow the feeling
Gen Dornying (Monk):to be in our mind, but then recognize.
Gen Dornying (Monk):But there are millions of people who have the same problem and the same pain,
Gen Dornying (Monk):but probably a lot worse than we have.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Now.
Gen Dornying (Monk):What happens the mechanics of this process are that it's not that we suddenly
Gen Dornying (Monk):become this altruistic, compassionate person, great being I am, because I'm
Gen Dornying (Monk):now thinking of other now what's actually happening is that we're developing a
Gen Dornying (Monk):certain perspective of our problem.
Gen Dornying (Monk):It becomes reduced in the light of the fact that there are millions and
Gen Dornying (Monk):millions of people who are drowning in the same problem, but a lot
Gen Dornying (Monk):worse except we know what they're going through because we have it.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So if we start to understand as this, as we, as the mind opens, and as our
Gen Dornying (Monk):perspective begins to change that new perspective causes this pain
Gen Dornying (Monk):to reduce just through perspective.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Now as this develops, it can then become a wish or may actually
Gen Dornying (Monk):let me just think about this.
Gen Dornying (Monk):May, may they be free because they're millions and I'm one.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And th the, a few moments of bad feeling in the mind of one living being is not
Gen Dornying (Monk):a catastrophe in the light of the same emotional feelings in the minds of
Gen Dornying (Monk):millions and millions of living beings.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Suddenly we feel like a grain of sand on a beach and everything reduces the
Gen Dornying (Monk):pain, reduces the self focus, mind reduces the other focus, mind opens up
Gen Dornying (Monk):the perspective changes, and this process alone starts to give rise to inner peace.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Then the wish for them to be free, then feelings of compassion,
Gen Dornying (Monk):then huge happiness coming.
Gen Dornying (Monk):As a result of this experience, I've almost had
Michael Barticel (Host):the opposite experience happened.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Yeah.
Gen Dornying (Monk):The pain goes up and the happiness
Michael Barticel (Host):goes down in a
Gen Dornying (Monk):sense, I think this is common.
Gen Dornying (Monk):This is common, but there is sometimes a huge mistake that we make where
Gen Dornying (Monk):we mix compassion with rejection.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So instead of completely opening our heart to the thought this suffering
Gen Dornying (Monk):is happening, may it sees, we started in, it's hard to recognize
Gen Dornying (Monk):we subtly develop the thought.
Gen Dornying (Monk):I don't want this to be happening, which is an aspect of anger
Gen Dornying (Monk):because it's a rejection.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And for as long as we have, even just an aspect of anger, we will
Gen Dornying (Monk):crush ourselves emotionally.
Gen Dornying (Monk):I think
Michael Barticel (Host):that may have happened, but it felt more like
Gen Dornying (Monk):an acceptance of the fee.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And it was like
Michael Barticel (Host):almost too intense to hold the pain and the suffering
Gen Dornying (Monk):of others, but there's must be a there's must be a
Gen Dornying (Monk):contradiction between an acceptance and a feeling of, of it being too much.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Yeah,
Michael Barticel (Host):yeah, yeah.
Michael Barticel (Host):Yes.
Gen Dornying (Monk):I mean, I, this, he used to teach in Glebe in Sydney
Gen Dornying (Monk):and, uh, and there was a lady that is to assist the class, used to help me.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And the one day we were talking about compassion and she said,
Gen Dornying (Monk):um, she said, though, every month I do my compassionate things.
Gen Dornying (Monk):You said, I subscribe to the RSPC magazine.
Gen Dornying (Monk):She said that this is my it's different to your situation because
Gen Dornying (Monk):I can see that you're a deep thinker.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And I think she was a little bit more on the surface.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Anyway, she sent them, she said, this is my compassionate action.
Gen Dornying (Monk):This is what I do each, each year.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Mum.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And she said, but I will never open the magazine.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And I said, well, why would you not open it?
Gen Dornying (Monk):We buy this magazine.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Why do you not open it?
Gen Dornying (Monk):She said, because the suffering is too much for me.
Gen Dornying (Monk):I don't want to see it.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Of course, I wouldn't say this to her, but when I contemplated and
Gen Dornying (Monk):reflected on that situation, I realized that that wasn't compassion.
Gen Dornying (Monk):It was a rejection of the suffering and then a kind of a kind of, um,
Gen Dornying (Monk):transaction to pay her own conscience off.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So I don't want to see the suffering, but here's some money you see,
Gen Dornying (Monk):rather than I have to accept.
Gen Dornying (Monk):There is an awful lot of suffering in this world.
Gen Dornying (Monk):It is tremendous amount of suffering, but I need to know this because
Gen Dornying (Monk):my ambition, as we talked about earlier is to be a force for healing.
Michael Barticel (Host):So it almost becomes motivation as well.
Michael Barticel (Host):Absolutely.
Michael Barticel (Host):Yeah.
Michael Barticel (Host):Okay.
Michael Barticel (Host):That kind of ties back in quite nicely.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Yeah.
Gen Dornying (Monk):It's a good question.
Gen Dornying (Monk):It's a good point.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Yeah.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So there is a meditation, there is a book actually, which a lot
Gen Dornying (Monk):of these topics you can read about which you can download for free.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Um, it's called how to transform your life is the name of the book.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And it's written by my teacher, my spiritual guide.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Yep.
Gen Dornying (Monk):and, but it's available for everybody for free and there's a
Gen Dornying (Monk):website called how to tyl.com and all these things we've discussed.
Gen Dornying (Monk):You can.
Gen Dornying (Monk):In the book on how to meditate on them, but in there's a really simple, really
Gen Dornying (Monk):beautiful meditation about where he explained that all of our daily problems
Gen Dornying (Monk):and all of our unhappiness and lack of happiness and the greatest obstacle
Gen Dornying (Monk):to our happiness arises from wishing ourselves to be happy all the time.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And he said, if we practice stopping this wish, so it's a practice, the
Gen Dornying (Monk):practice of stopping the wish for myself to be happy all the time.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And instead wish for others to be happy all the time.
Gen Dornying (Monk):We will have no experience of suffering or problems.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And he says at all, it's a big call.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Yeah.
Gen Dornying (Monk):No experience of suffering.
Gen Dornying (Monk):At all.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And he said, we can see from this, that the real source of all of our
Gen Dornying (Monk):problems is the uncontrolled desire.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Wishing ourselves to be happy all the time.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So I thought it'd be nice.
Gen Dornying (Monk):We can meditate on that.
Gen Dornying (Monk):We do it in two stages.
Gen Dornying (Monk):We'll imagine we've stopped the wish for ourselves to be happy all the time.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And then we'll start almost like this cloud is lifted off our shoulders.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Like we're off the hook.
Gen Dornying (Monk):The SA the servitude has come to an end.
Gen Dornying (Monk):We're no longer a slave to our desire.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Just be in the quietude of that experience.
Gen Dornying (Monk):We can then gently turn our mind to others and see if we can hold a
Gen Dornying (Monk):feeling of love moments, a moment, practice mindfulness as well.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Should we try it?
Gen Dornying (Monk):Let's do it.
Gen Dornying (Monk):All right.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So comfortable posture straight back, hands in your lap.
Gen Dornying (Monk):No, your eyelids
Gen Dornying (Monk):drop, drop your shoulders.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Breathe gently through your nose.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And just to bring yourself into the present, just focus on the sensation
Gen Dornying (Monk):of the breath for a minute or so,
Gen Dornying (Monk):the cooler as you inhale and the warmer, softer sensation as you exhale.
Gen Dornying (Monk):If we practice stopping
Gen Dornying (Monk):wishing for ourselves to be happy all the time.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And instead
Gen Dornying (Monk):wish for others to be happy all the time.
Gen Dornying (Monk):We will have no experience of suffering, um, problems at all.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So firstly, imagine
Gen Dornying (Monk):that your wish to be happy all the time.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Let's see.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Yeah.
Gen Dornying (Monk):The mind becomes completely still and present no longer craving searching
Gen Dornying (Monk):and enjoy this mental peace for a couple of minutes.
Gen Dornying (Monk):I imagine.
Gen Dornying (Monk):In the vast space of your mind, you see all living beings
Gen Dornying (Monk):and consider how deeply they long to be happy
Gen Dornying (Monk):and saying how wonderful if they could be at peace.
Gen Dornying (Monk):How wonderful if they could experience everlasting happiness,
Gen Dornying (Monk):transform your whole heart.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Into this wish.
Gen Dornying (Monk):May they be happy?
Gen Dornying (Monk):Imagine your wish has real power.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Then you'd begin to see them smile peacefully.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Hold this wish and a warm heart feeling of being close to.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Moment to moment to moment,
Gen Dornying (Monk):enjoy and transform your whole mind.
Gen Dornying (Monk):In your, in your own time.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Begin to
Gen Dornying (Monk):relax your meditation,
Gen Dornying (Monk):come back to your breath.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Well, the mind is, should be relaxed, peaceful, and just focusing on the breath.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Cool.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Does your inhale the warmer, softer sensation as you actually.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And without losing any feelings of love, any feelings of peace can rise
Gen Dornying (Monk):from the meditation when you feel.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So I think the important thing is, is as you incorporate this kind of
Gen Dornying (Monk):meditation into your life externally, we don't need to change too much.
Gen Dornying (Monk):In the beginning, we just take this peaceful feeling
Gen Dornying (Monk):and then we take it into life.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So we can still go for a coffee with our friends, but for us, the
Gen Dornying (Monk):happiness is not coming from the core.
Gen Dornying (Monk):But I love for a friend or experience we're having from within.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And we just understand that there is a conventional basis for interaction.
Gen Dornying (Monk):So externally remain natural in so externally, ordinary,
Gen Dornying (Monk):and internally, extra ordinary.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And then in that way we can bring it together like a union of our spiritual
Gen Dornying (Monk):development without causing any problems or worry in other people, uh, and
Gen Dornying (Monk):just fits in quite nicely into the modern world, even though the bottom
Gen Dornying (Monk):world is getting crazier by the month.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Hmm.
Michael Barticel (Host):You mentioned the
Gen Dornying (Monk):picturing that by holding that feeling sense that
Michael Barticel (Host):spreading the happiness across the, I
Michael Barticel (Host):was picturing stars as people.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Yeah.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Yeah.
Michael Barticel (Host):Um, you know, the effect that that's actually having.
Michael Barticel (Host):I think that it
Gen Dornying (Monk):does.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Absolutely.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Yeah, because we're going to discuss last time.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Reality is, and we touched on it earlier.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Reality is not as objective as we have always believed.
Gen Dornying (Monk):We know that even on a basic level from the fact that when our mind changes,
Gen Dornying (Monk):things look different, you know, people look more attractive to a beautiful
Gen Dornying (Monk):mind than they do to an unpleasant mind.
Gen Dornying (Monk):And so you simply cannot deny that when one meditates on the wish all beings
Gen Dornying (Monk):to be happy, that that is not bringing goodness into this world, it would
Gen Dornying (Monk):be an extreme to deny that I think.
Gen Dornying (Monk):Mm Hmm.
Michael Barticel (Host):Thank you for tuning into this episode
Michael Barticel (Host):of the today, dream a podcast, hopefully you found something.
Michael Barticel (Host):That will allow you to deepen your practice of presence and
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Michael Barticel (Host):That's all for me.
Michael Barticel (Host):And I will catch you in the next episode, in the meantime, be well