Episode Summary

Join Harry Duran, host of Vertical Farming Podcast, as he welcomes to the show, co- founder & CEO at Brick Street Farms, Shannon O’Malley. Brick Street Farms is a hydroponic, indoor city farm that grows leafy greens year-round in technology based, climate controlled environments. Their mission is to grow the most nutritious produce at the heart of consumption.

Today, Harry and Shannon talk about how Shannon became an ‘accidental co-founder’ within the Controlled Environment Agriculture (CEA) industry. Shannon discusses the key differentiating factor of Brick Street Farms and shares some of the amazing work they are doing to educate society on this growing segment. Harry and Shannon talk about the recent extreme weather, most notably the deep freeze in Texas, and how more of these climactic events are impacting how our food is grown, harvested and delivered to us. Finally, Shannon speaks to the initiatives Brick Street Farms is involved with, including combatting food deserts.

Episode Sponsor

CULTIVATD

Key Takeaways

• 
  
• 02:58 – Harry welcomes to the show Shannon O’Malley, who joins the show to discuss her engineering background and her passion for building and creating
• 
  
• 
  
• 13:39 – An accidental co-founder
• 
  
• 
  
• 17:18 – Extreme weather and vertical farming
• 
  
• 
  
• 21:11 – Brick Street Farms’ origin story and a key differentiating factor about them
• 
  
• 
  
• 25:51 – An amazing reaction from the community
• 
  
• 
  
• 27:32 – Educating the masses on career opportunities within the vertical farming industry
• 
  
• 
  
• 32:30 – Challenges that the Controlled Environment Agriculture (CEA) industry faces, including contamination
• 
  
• 
  
• 35:57 – Taking on a leadership role at Brick Street Farms and facing new challenges such as COVID-19
• 
  
• 
  
• 41:59 – Connecting with other CEA companies
• 
  
• 
  
• 44:08 – What’s next for Brick Street Farms as the grow and expand their team and organization
• 
  
• 
  
• 51:09 – Harry thanks Shannon for joining the show and let’s listeners know where they can learn more about Brick Street Farms and connect with Shannon
• 
  

Tweetable Quotes

“I definitely think my passion for science and engineering laid the foundation for me today to at least have the curiosity to try.” (13:08) (Shannon)

“A key differentiating factor for Brick Street Farms is that our focus is wholesale hospitality and direct-to-consumer and not mass distribution through grocery stores or food supply companies.” (22:29) (Shannon)

“We would not have been able to get where we are today if we didn’t have the amazing reaction and support of our community.” (26:25) (Shannon)

“We like to use a phrase called, ‘Advanced Simplicity.’ We build our machines so that anyone can operate them because you have to be able to build this labor force and this workforce. And we get folks from all walks of life, former delivery drivers and warehouse workers to plumbers to science students. And so we want people to be able to come in and be effective right away.” (30:58) (Shannon)

“Brick Street Farms is only as successful as we build our Thrive Containers. And Thrive Containers is our manufacturing brand. Brick Street Farms can only be as successful as good of a machine that we build. So, we work to build a machine with highest ROI with the lowest inputs.” (43:00) (Shannon)

“We’re focused on expanding our brand, our marketing, our consumer outreach and governmental affairs.” (46:03) (Shannon)

Links Mentioned

Shannon’s LinkedIn

Brick Street Farms Website

Brick Street Farms Twitter

Brick Street Farms Instagram

Brick Street Farms Facebook

Thrive Containers Website

Sponsor Info:

Cultivatd Website

Cultivatd Instagram

Cultivatd’s Twitter

Cultivatd’s Facebook

🎙️🎙️🎙️

Podcast Production and Marketing by FullCast: https://bit.ly/3sxZ34y

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Mentioned in this episode:

2025 Precision Ag Report by iGrowNews

2025 Precision Ag Report

2025 Precision Ag Report by iGrowNews

2025 Precision Ag Report

$680 million poured into precision ag last year.

Autonomous weeding robots dominated, and John Deere made 2 acquisitions in 3

months. A food company, not an equipment maker, bought a

robotics startup to protect its own supply chain. The deals are

accelerating, the money is moving, and the winners are already separating from the

pack. If you're investing, building, or buying in this space,

you need the full picture before your competitors get it. The 2025

Precision Agriculture Intelligence Report From iGrow News is now

available. Get your copy today at

igrownews.com/precision. If you are starting a

vertical farm and don't know where to begin or which technology would suit your needs,

then reach out to the experts at Cultivated. As indoor farm brokers, they

help connect you to the right technology and ensure your project is successful.

Best of all, their service is free because they work on behalf of their

partners. Visit cultivated.com to learn more. And

that's spelled C-U-L-T-I-V-A-T-D.com,

or click the link in the show notes. You know, our machines— we like to

use a phrase called advanced simplicity, and we build our

machines so that anybody can operate them,

because you have to be able to build this labor force and this workforce.

And we get folks from all walks of life, you know, former delivery

drivers and warehouse workers to plumbers to science

students. And so we want people to be able to come in and be

effective right away.

Welcome to the Vertical Farming Podcast, weekly conversations with

fascinating CEOs, founders, and agtech visionaries.

Join us every week as we dive deep into the world of vertical

farming with your host, Harry Duran.

Vertical Farming Podcast Season 4 is here,

finally! That was,

uh, my best trumpet impersonation.

If this is your first time listening, then you're probably wondering where you're

at. This is the show where we interview fascinating CEOs and founders of the leading

vertical farming companies from around the world, and I am your host, Harry Duran.

So excited to kick off season 4 and super honored to be

partnering once again with the team at Cultivated, who you heard mentioned at the

beginning of the show. We're honored that they've continued to partner with us as the

title sponsor for season 4. Stay tuned for a round 2

episode with one of the co-founders. If you're not familiar with them, once again, they

are serving as vertical farm brokers and help match your project with the

right indoor farm technology, which is going to save you a lot of time and

money. I bet you want to know why. It's because the service

is free, since the service is paid for by their partners.

So make sure you check them out, Cultivated,

C-U-L-T-I-V-A-T-E-D.com.

Okay, in case you are just joining us again for the very

first time, you probably missed all the amazing interviews from seasons 1 through

3. We wrapped up season 3 with Austin Webb of the Fifth

Season Fresh. We kick off season 4 with Shannon O'Malley.

She's the co-founder and CEO at Brick Street Farms, a hydroponic

indoor city farm growing leafy greens, and their mission is to grow the

most nutritious produce at the heart of consumption. We talk

about how Shannon became an accidental co-founder within the controlled

environment agriculture industry, and she discusses the key

differentiating factor of Brick Street Farms, shares some of the amazing work they're doing to

educate society on this growing segment. And we jump into

a variety of topics, including the recent extreme weather at the time of the

recording, specifically the deep freeze in Texas, and how

that kicked off a discussion about climactic events and how they're impacting how our

food is grown, harvested, and delivered to us. And then finally,

Shannon speaks about the initiatives Brick Street Farms is involved with, including

combating food deserts, which is near and dear to my heart.

We're super honored to have a couple of Return and

new sponsors also for this show. I'll introduce both of

them and then we'll jump right into the content. First up, new sponsor

Freight Farms. For those of you not familiar with them, they manufacture

and sell the leading vertical hydroponic container farm, the Greenery S.

It's built inside a 40-foot shipping container and it uses innovative climate

control technology paired with an IoT app called

Farmhand to enable anyone to grow fresh food anywhere in the

world. We were honored to interview John Friedman way back in

season 1, episode 5, founder and CEO of

Freight Farms. So make sure you check that episode out if you haven't already.

Visit freightfarms.com/verticalfarmingpodcast

to learn more. And return sponsor Indoor AgCon. Whether you're starting up or

scaling up, Indoor AgCon can help you grow your vertical farming business.

Live and in person this year, the premier trade show and conference for vertical farming

and CEA heads to the Hilton Orlando from October 4th through 5th.

Explore an expo floor filled with new product resources and business

solutions. Attend idea-packed educational sessions led by top

CEOs and thought leaders and connect with peers and potential business partners at the

networking events. Learn more and take advantage of early bird registration

discounts at indore.ag and save an additional $100

off registration with our promo code

VFPOD2021. If you enjoyed this

episode or past episodes, I'm looking forward to our next round of reviews. Leave

yours at ratethispodcast.com/vfp and I'll be sure to read

So excited to be back with you. Let's get started and jump into this

conversation with Shannon. So Shannon O'Malley, co-founder and

CEO at Brick Street Farms, thank you for joining me on the Vertical Farming

Podcast. Well, thank you so much for having me. I look forward to this

discussion. So where's home for you now?

Well, home for me is St. Petersburg, Florida. So we are

in west central Florida, part of the Tampa Bay area.

And how long you been there? I've been here going on about 14 years,

and Brick Street Farms has been here just about

6 years. Okay. And where'd you grow up? I'm

originally born and raised in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

So Western PA, went, grew up, college and grad school

were at the University of Pittsburgh. And, uh, as is the

case sometimes when you're on LinkedIn and you start to see what people are into

and what their hobbies and interests are, I did notice, and something that caught my

eye, I was— let's see if I had that right— a volunteer paramedic with the

National Ski Patrol? Yes, I

was. I'm a bit out of practice now because I'm obviously in

St. Petersburg for the last 14 years. But yes, I

was a member of the National Ski Patrol for 16 years.

I joined when I was 16 years old. I

was an avid snow skier growing up. And

you can join at the age of 16 and you actually get your paramedics training

through it as well as survival skills. And joined at

16 up until the day, up until the season that I

moved to Florida. And, uh, I imagine there might be some interesting

stories from that experience. It was, it was a lot

of fun in Western Pennsylvania. I mean, through the winter months, there's not much else

to do but ski. And there's 2

Appalachian-based resorts not too far from Pittsburgh. So it was Seven Springs and Hidden Valley,

uh, skied almost every weekend. You learn a lot about

survival skills and, you know, cold weather

emergencies. So yeah, I was a certified

paramedic for about 16 years. Very interesting.

And do you have an appreciation for the

seasons in terms of— like, there's people that just like to live in the warm

weather and they just really never experience winter. And then some

people— I'm in Minneapolis now, so I'm kind of Processing this. So you're on

cold weather all the time? Well, no, we're actually having a beautiful summer here,

but when it's cold, it's cold. Like, it's like minus— It's really cold. 20.

It's really cold. It's really cold. Yeah. So there's a

school of thought that says, well, it lets you get to appreciate the

changing of the seasons. And then winter, just when you've just had about enough of

winter, then, you know, spring comes and then summer comes and then fall comes.

And did you ascribe to that school of thought as well? I,

you know, being born and raised in the Midwest and Pittsburgh, considering it

Midwest, you know, it's cold 6 or 7 months out of the year.

It's a sleeting gray cold, unlike your,

you know, Colorados. So that's why I fell in love with

skiing. Keep you busy. It's something that you can do in the cold weather.

Since I've been in Florida for going on 14 years now, I

find myself missing the cold more and more.

When I first left, I was like, I don't care if I ever see snow

again in my life. But, you know, 14 years later, I'm

actually starting to plan ski trips again. So, you know, it's the

grass is always greener kind of thing. Yeah. And I think it— I

don't know if the word that people describe it as, it hardens you up, or

it makes you a pre— well, when you think about like what bears do, like

they hibernate, and then it allows you— I think it's this idea of

contemplation and reflection and What you— something you can do

in like those winter months when you, you're not out and about. So I'm trying

to figure out if there's something to do that. It's called like the season of

rest and, you know, rejuvenation. So

nature has these cycles and the winter

months are a time for rest and contemplation,

or, you know, football if you're from the north.

But, uh, yeah, it's definitely a season, a down season for sure.

In Florida, you don't really get that so much. It's just,

you know, sunshine all the time, and it's just, is it a little bit hot

or extremely hot? Extremely hot and humid. Yes,

very, very humid. I was just in Naples 2 or 3 weeks ago.

One of my best friends, he's got a restaurant there in Naples. Yeah, it

just kind of smacks you in the face as soon as you leave the house.

It really, it really does. You just have to be prepared to

That's it. It's funny because you drive around, you see these really fancy

houses, but the whole backyard is like screened in. So it's like

a little complex in there. I imagine that's to keep out the bugs.

That's to keep out the bugs. That's, you know, that's something

that I learned when I came down here. When I was in Pittsburgh, I was

an avid gardener, Master Gardener in Pennsylvania,

and it's very different seasons. Water

source is the, you know, the Great Lakes, which is amazing freshwater

source. The soil's very fertile and you have the wonderful season.

What winter brings with it is a season that kills off any pests

and puts bugs into a dormant mode and allows everything

to rejuvenate. When I came to Florida, I tried the

same thing and, you know, just did not have the same success. So

I tip my hat to our traditional soil farmers and

those that are prolific raised bed Folks, because, you

know, they spend a tremendous amount of energy and effort in composting, and you

don't get that season, you know, for pest control.

And so going back to those cages, that's really what it's about, is the—

I mean, it's mosquito season in full force right now. So, wow.

You mentioned Master Gardener. Is that a— you need to get qualified to be

called? Yeah, it is a sort of— it is a certification that you can go

through. There's A couple nonprofit groups that offer

it. You can also go through some local universities. It's

someone who grows for hobby, not

for livelihood, to put it that way.

And interesting to see how that's come back full circle to where you are now.

Yeah. Yeah. It's, um, I started with soil

and I will admit that I failed with that down here in

Florida. And so I ended up buying hydroponic stand of sorts, tower system.

them and really liked it that I ended up converting

my 2-car garage into my first

hydroponic experiment, uh, semi-climate

controlled but not really. And just really

expanded, fell in love with it, started experimenting with NFT,

deep water culture, vertical growing, aeroponics, just

started playing around with everything and everything from lettuces to

herbs to flowers. Tomatoes. And then from there,

just kind of a hobby gone wild, you know, and Harrisburg Street

Farms and shipping containers 6 years later. Were you

always adventurous in terms of, you know, I get the sense that

there's a lot of tinkering going on because if you start with something in your

garage and then you keep at it, is— do you think that's like a function

of like your personality? Because I noticed early on you were into like business intelligence

projects and information systems. So is, is that sort of how

your mind works? It does, for better or for worse.

So my background is in engineering,

and I really enjoy the process of building things,

and I'm not sure I'm ever really done building something. So

continued to build the, you know, the garage grow room, and then I built a

shipping container. Now I've built 17 shipping containers, and now

I'm designing this hub concept. So I just feel like it's this

process that never really ends, and it's this iterative process.

Where I've kind of taken everything that I've learned along the way

through schooling, through my experience with

Master Gardening to— I worked for Duke Energy for a long

time. So, and there's this environmental sustainability

initiatives to improve 2-way electric grid

and implement different energy-saving technologies.

Smart grid, if you're familiar with that term, smart grid.

And yeah, I work very

closely hand in hand with my engineering team here at Brick Street Farms

now. It's great to have a team to work with. It's not

just me anymore. But yes, I

think my favorite part is building.

Were you like that as a child? I think so. I was always a big

fan of Legos and blocks and the Lincoln Logs.

I had the Lincoln Logs and the coloring books. As a child,

though, I was very physical, meaning

I had a lot of energy. So I was put into

sports very young. So I think I did not really

sit still very much. So I think it was more sports.

Do you remember Mr. Wizard? I am probably dating myself with that reference. I do.

Was that on PBS? I think it might have been on PBS. Yes, it was

on PBS. Yes, I remember Mr. Wizard. For the

listener who might not have any idea what we're talking about, he was

sort of like a— he's the Bill Nye.

Yes, of our generation. Yes, of our generation, because I just

turned 50. He was the original science guy. Yes, yes. And it was just cool

to see him do these little experiments. And do you think that's important?

And, you know, when someone that's young

demonstrates an aptitude or a passion for things like

engineering or building, that it's important that they find an

outlet or a way to express that? Well, absolutely.

Whether your interest is in science or the arts, I think a

younger generation having exposure basically to STEM— science,

technology, engineering, manufacturing— you

know, if I would have thought that building a CEA

indoor hydroponics company out of shipping containers was possible as a

child, I mean, this industry didn't really exist, not in the

form that it does today. way back when, but

I definitely think that it laid a foundation for me today to at

least have the curiosity to try. I do

think that there's certain personality traits, people that are maybe more risk

tolerant. When you mix engineering and

building things with people that have a little bit higher risk tolerance, like entrepreneurs,

that combination can be a, you know, very forceful—

Yes. And so timing-wise, you mentioned that you're

working on this garage project, but was vertical farming on your

radar or hydroponics or anything? Is this sort of like you sort of

came in through the back door because you were just doing it yourself and just

figuring out that there actually was an industry around these things?

Yeah, I am an accidental co-founder. So I was working for

Duke Energy in smart grid projects. So I was working on the

forefront of infrastructure projects to make our

electric grid and carbon footprint significantly more efficient.

So, to use less resources and to make it smarter with a lot of

AI and machine or drone monitoring is what I

was working on. And then, I was doing this kind of garage

project in the background. And then, I started to

apply what I had learned in school through engineering

and what I was learning at Duke Energy to my garage

project. And, I started building a

platform, a control platform, a monitoring platform. I started using the

First beta version of Nest cams that were out there. Just kind

of kept at it. Really rudimentary app

that we built. And from there, I just

realized that humans could do better and that

there was a tremendous opportunity. The produce that was coming

out of the plants that I was growing in my garage were better than what

I was finding at the grocery store. And I

realized that I had a 2-car garage and I was growing enough. I was sharing

it with my friends. I was sharing it with my neighbors. I was bringing it

in to my coworkers. I mean, we eat a lot of vegetables, but

that was more than a household of 2 could eat. What were you growing? All

different types of lettuces, spinaches, kales, all the main

culinary herbs like basil and cilantro, and then peppers.

Everything from banana peppers to hot peppers, tons of— I was

trialing heirloom tomatoes because heirloom tomatoes from

Pennsylvania are phenomenal and you have a really hard time getting

those down here. Eggplants, okra, all different kinds,

anything that you can grow. And I just— cucumbers, just too much

for us to eat. And I started to realize that,

look what I was growing in my garage, and it tasted better than

the grocery store. And I started thinking

about, man, like, we can really do this on a scale.

And while I love the concept of community gardens, I tend to find that

they lack the magnitude to make a

significant impact, either being seasonally or being run

by volunteers for whatever it might be. And I realized if I could

do this in my garage, why not use—

find another space? And my husband and I, quite frankly, we just did not

have— and his name is Brad Doyle, my co-founder— we didn't have

the money to buy a warehouse. We were entirely self-funded to get

started. And so we bought a shipping container.

And the rest is history. So we needed a controllable space.

And I mean, I would probably be in a totally different environment if we had

a warehouse to get started, or a totally different situation if we had had a

warehouse. Might be more like some of the other

folks that you've interviewed. But we ended up with shipping

containers, and we've continued to tinker and apply some of the smart

grid technology to our farm containers.

And we've continued to iterate and we can produce 2 to 3

tons per container per year. Wow. Which is pretty

incredible without pesticides, without

fungicides, basically in all— we are not certified organic,

but we do practice organic practices. And,

uh, you know, we're really proud of that. One thing that I think is interesting

is your experience at Duke. And what comes to mind is the

recent power grid issues in Texas, right? And so this, it's top of

mind and people are thinking about those, but I feel like your understanding of how

that works and how your farms can leverage that

to its best use and benefit and also be prepared, because if

I don't know the extent to that, how something like that can happen in other

states, but I'm sure that's, that's something that you've thought of. It could happen

anywhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For different reasons. I mean, Texas was

because of a deep freeze that, you know, once in a century freeze.

Well, maybe not once in a century anymore, but in In Florida, it can happen

with a hurricane or a heat wave. I mean, the Pacific

Northwest and California right now are having a tremendous drought and

heat wave. I mean, their electric grid is overloaded right now with rolling

brownouts, blackouts. So, what we've done is we've taken

those learnings and we built those very early on into

our machines. So, the 2 largest expenses

with indoor farming from my perspective are electricity and

labor. You still have. And, there's a few other ones in there, but

if I had to pick 2. And so, very early on,

obviously, light selection is critical. Type of

lights, the strength, magnitude, whether they're dimmable, all of that goes

into your decision. But, we took building

our farm and looked at it from an ecosystem almost as if it was a

living, breathing ecosystem, not just the plants but the mechanics of it and And how

do we control our air conditioning with our lights

and with our power source and what time of day we're using? So

we were very much focused on the relationship

between all the power demands and

our electric source in order to reduce our carbon footprint. So that

was first and foremost about how to divert power

within the machine where needed, how to build redundant

systems. How to move power through

different components and how to provide a

relationship. So if a machine was getting too hot or too cold,

so that it could— it was intelligent enough to

self-correct right off the bat. And so

that's what we've learned. It's called self-healing systems. So we've

taken components of both smart grid and self-healing and applied them

from the beginning. And do you feel that

that puts you in a position where you feel at least a little more

confident that if something of an event of that caliber were to

happen, that you'd be well positioned to handle that?

I believe not isolated, we would not

be, but in combination with some of the other steps we've taken,

such as natural gas generation on the back

end. So our machines can run off of electric or gas.

Okay. So that's an option. We're just moving into

solar offset with battery backup. So, I

think when you take the self-healing system internally and you

combine it with redundant systems and

different power sources that we've done, that we're in an excellent

position regardless of what happens around us.

Yeah. I mean, in the 3 seasons, and this will be

season 4, this episode, but I think it's the first conversation

where there's been a little bit of a deeper dive on the power

that supplies these systems and, and thinking through all the challenges

and redundancies that are necessary. And I can't imagine anyone

more well-suited to figure those things out than someone who's

had experience in energy as well. So. Thank you. I think Duke

gave us a little bit of a leg up from that perspective.

We know what happens when power goes wrong. So. Yeah.

And so talk to me about the thought

process and what was happening in your mind as you start to think

about, you're at Duke, but this is picking up and now, you know,

is this going to become a company? Am I going to, are we going to

get bigger and who's going to run it? All those questions.

I don't know if I overestimated it or underestimated it, but it

has been a rude awakening the last 6 years. So yes, we started.

3 containers. Okay. And then quickly added 2 more.

So my husband and I were co-founders,

and once we started building,

we were both still fully employed. I'm actually— my husband worked at Brick Street Front,

or I'm sorry, Duke Energy as well. And I was, for the

first year and a half, 2 years, I was

fully employed at both companies, and so was Brad.

And it started to take off. And we realized very quickly that in

order to service our customers and for it to

take off, it needed a dedicated resource. And

we always knew that that was going to be me. And so I stepped away

in February of 2016. I stepped

into Brick Street Farms full-time, and we have

grown exponentially since then. One, a key differentiating

factor for Brick Street Farms is that Our

focus is wholesale hospitality and

direct-to-consumer. Okay. And

not mass distribution

through grocery stores or food supply

companies. I don't want to name any of them, but we're, you know, we're not

looking to compete in that market space. So, there's a lot of folks that

are competing for those big grocery accounts. And

quite frankly, They can have it. It's

wonderful what they're doing. I think, I think it's great to bring a fresh product,

but what that's gonna do is it just commodit— it just

commod— Commoditizes. Makes a commodity outta— thank you.

Commoditizes the product and it

just becomes another name on a shelf, just like the same

products we have from Southern California right now. Exactly. Yeah.

And, but I mean, it is a great product that they're bringing and, you know,

we're all thankful for their contribution. But our model is

focused on being located

in the community that we serve. So we are putting

our hubs in urban centers, in urban cores, and we're

servicing the 30-mile radius around each hub. Okay. So

we're building relationships directly with hotels

and restaurants, mom-and-pop restaurants, school districts that

surround us where we live and farm

Our product, we also do distribution entirely

ourselves. So we do all the delivery, we control our

supply chain. And then finally, we have an

onsite retail market at each of our hubs. Our new hub is

being built targeting end of the year to open, first quarter next year at the

latest. And we have an onsite retail market.

So think about like we truly are your neighborhood farm.

You've got your butcher shop, you've got maybe your local brewery,

and now you've got your farm that you can come to and get all your

fresh produce, some other locally made goods, enough to make a

dinner, some beer and wine, shop and, and walk home,

and you know where it came from. So with our

direct-to-consumer model, we really are focused on the

community that surrounds us, and we're not trucking anywhere.

Why was that a model important for you to adopt?

I saw that it was a gap in the industry. I really wanted

to connect directly with our buyers. So we

started with a small CSA, so

direct-to-consumer in that model. But because our machines

grow predominantly leafy greens, herbs, flowers, that

a CSA in the traditional sense got a little bit boring after a while.

So, we focused on expanding to our wholesale hospitality accounts to

provide the restaurants with the best, freshest, local,

nutritious greens that they can get. But, by focusing on the

community immediately around us, we're able to pass through the

longevity of the product to our consumers. So,

our product lasts 17 to 22 days. That's great.

And, we are harvested and delivered within 24 hours.

Wow. So whether it's restaurant account or direct to your

kitchen, you get the full benefit

of it being locally grown. And having had this model in place

for several years, I imagine, what's been the response from the community?

Fantastic. We're going to just put a little pin in 2020

that happened, but

that's the model that we started with and that's the model that we're

going forward with is I envision a hub in every major

urban city. Very walkable district. In addition

to that, we have cold storage lockers and home delivery. There's a lot of, a

lot of options that we have in order to get the product into our consumers'

hands. We would not have been able

to get where we are today if we didn't have the amazing

reaction and support of our community. We're driving a

membership program. We are the premier produce provider in the

Tampa Bay area. We're working on expanding throughout the state of Florida,

hopefully up the East Coast. And we like to

focus on maintaining that direct relationship

with whether wholesale account or your family. They

recognize our brand. They know what it means. They can see it,

touch it, feel it. They can come see the farm and it just builds a

loyalty that I don't think folks in the

massive grocery industry Yeah, that makes

sense. And we're betting the house on it. So we're literally betting the farm

on it, I think, is it. You know, we're doubling down, we're expanding.

So that's our expansion plans, is to

continue to build these hubs. Our first one, our— we're in our

headquarters now. We'll have our first serious significant independent prototype

here by the end of the year, and then we'll have another one in Tampa

in 2022. What is the job market

look like from your end where these are

roles, careers that people may not have thought were

possible or even existed, you know, 15— I wouldn't know. 10, you

know, 20 years ago? Yeah. And, and then how do you

think about that in terms of educating the community? Because it's, it's education a

couple of fronts. It's education on the product, nutritional

benefits, where it's come from, locally sourced, but then it's also

people that could see this as a possible career and aspire to something in this

industry? If somebody had told me in college that I would be running

an urban farm, a controlled environment agriculture farm in hydroponics, I would

have thought you were out of your mind.

So it's a great question, and education is a huge

piece of what we do. From the consumer standpoint,

it's really educating about what hydroponics is and how that

compares to Organic predominantly is what we deal with, and then

also conventional. Typically, once we get our

product in a consumer's hand, it speaks for itself, and then they see the

longevity of the product. We just typically have to overcome some

nutrient questions and typical pesticide questions, which are very

easy to answer. As far as the community for who we are,

we actually very early on, mostly out of

necessity, But we have built significant relationships with

local universities. So we have 3 or 4 major universities in

the area that we have an accredited internship program with. And so we

court or recruit students from biology, botany,

chemistry, horticultural sciences, environmental

sustainability. We recruit even business and marketing

students. We recruit them, they come here and you don't have to have any

experience to start. You just have to have a desire. to

make a difference in the world and have a passion for what you're doing, and

we can train you to do the rest. So

I think 15 years ago there was

maybe this many people, this tiny amount of folks, and

it was maybe more traditional greenhouses. Yeah, hydroponic stuff.

Hydroponics way back when. But nowadays,

uh, with Brook Street Farms and other companies in this space

getting the press that they have recently, it really is a

known career option. And we have

no lack of students that are interested in it, and we actually have a lot

of people that are making career changes into CEA.

You know, it's always great to find people with

hydroponic or greenhouse experience, which is typically the only

talent pool we have access that would have any type of

experience that would translate. But

I mean, any of the sciences can really be applied You

know, inside, inside of our farms. And what's the reaction to folks who are

new to the industry, or maybe in an adjacent or a

completely different industry, when they start experiencing this? It's a lot harder than they

think it's going to be. They think, oh my gosh, it's

indoor farming, push some buttons and the lettuce comes out, it runs

itself, right? So the Jetsons. Yeah,

yeah, they think it just takes care of itself, but you're still dealing with a

living, breathing product. You know, and as much as we can

manipulate and influence Mother Nature, she still very much has

a mind of her own. You know, our machines—we like to use a phrase

called advanced simplicity—and we build our machines

so that anybody can operate them because you have

to be able to build this labor force in this workforce. And we get folks

from all walks of life—you know, former delivery drivers and

warehouse workers to plumbers to science students.

And so we want people to be able to come in and be effective right

away because, like I said before, electricity and

labor are the 2 biggest expenses and

training somebody takes a tremendous amount of resources, especially

for a startup. So we work on streamlining

the workflow from the farmer's perspective to be as

efficient as possible. Okay. I like to say efficiency

doesn't just apply to electric or utilities, it applies

to human efficiency as well.

So regardless, when people come in, they realize that, you know, you still have—

in our case, and I know some other companies are focused on robotics, in

our case, you still have to touch a plant at least 3 times. You know,

you still have to seed it, you still have to transplant it, you still have

to harvest it, which still requires human intervention.

from our model, at least. And final

piece that we don't talk about a lot are the

sanitation and cleaning processes that are required,

because if you don't have a healthy system, you're not going to have

good plants. And that is a very labor-intensive

process too. Well, I was going to bring it up and you gave me a

nice segue, but we'd be remiss if we didn't discuss what's recently in

the news, BrightFarms and salmonella. And so

I'm wondering, you know, what your reaction was when you heard the news. And obviously,

for everyone in vertical farming, it's, you know, it's a bit disappointing to hear something

like that, and you hope it doesn't color people's perspective

of what's happening. But I'm curious what your thoughts are. Well, it's a

reality check, I think, for all of us in the CEA industry.

I think that I'm not sure the general

public will pick up on it as much or any different than

any of the other salmonella or E. coli outbreaks that

have occurred. Yeah, that's true. For the traditional soil romaine or the salad— Fresh

Express had one, or salad bags. There's been 5 or

6 of them over the last couple of years with major recalls.

I'm not sure the layperson will pick up on

BrightFarms being hydroponic, but what they're picking up on is just

another salmonella recall. But maybe they will.

I think that it's a wake-up in the sense that none of us

are immune to that, and it just further

reinforces the vigilance that we have to have to

maintain our environment's cleanliness and

sanitation. Yes, cleaning and maintenance

is actually probably more than 50% of the

effort that goes into running a hydroponic farm,

controlled environment agriculture. You know, being indoors,

challenge is, and to BrightFarms' example,

when you're a closed environment, If you have an infestation

or an infection or an outbreak, it's like a petri dish

and it's going to spread rapidly, whatever it

might be, whether it's fungus gnats or algae or

salmonella. So staying

vigilant with your management

techniques is definitely critical. Yeah. And I

think it's important that, I mean, it's for all intents and purposes, it's still a

nascent industry. And I think these things are, this probably won't be the

last time, but To your point, it is a good wake-up call, especially

for folks in the business, and to understand and

just be more aware that that's something that can happen, that there's proof that it

did happen, and I imagine there's a lot of extra

scrubbing going on lately. I think a lot of people are

double-checking their own systems, their own processes. I

think one advantage that CEA has in

this particular instance, is that it is very easy to track your

lot and perhaps the source, in my opinion, the

source of the contamination, which may be easier in this sense from

a warehouse to a particular road to a particular pump or tank or

whatever that might be, as opposed to

100,000-acre fields. That's a good point.

It could have been in the field. It could have been from the worker. It

could have been from the transportation truck. It could have been from the warehouse, it

could have been from the distribution center. Typically, in CEA,

you go from farm to transportation to end user. Now, that

transportation can either be a third party or be controlled by

the actual farm. So, there's significantly

less steps, which I think would make easier to

manage and take corrective action on. Yeah,

makes sense. I'm curious how

prepared you felt for taking on the

leadership role at Brickforms? Well, I'm

not sure, you know, anything fully prepares you to be

CEO of a startup. You definitely pull

from your professional background. I had the opportunity

to climb the ladder a bit at Duke Energy, which I think prepared me.

Okay. Major difference for me was is that

we were self-funded when we started. So, I cashed out my

401, I remortgaged my house,

and when that is on the line, failure is really

not an option. And so, that has a certain added level of

stress. But what prepares me for

this, startups are unlike anything else. They have a unique sense of

stress. And that I'm not sure working

for an established corporation has. I recognize there's stress

in both, but coming— But there's a safety there.

There's a fallback option. Yes. I realize now

I've got how many families are dependent on our payroll

and we have investors. So, we've been successful

to date. If you saw our announcement, if not, you could find it

on our Instagram. I did. I was going to ask you about that as well.

Yeah. Yeah, we were, you know, it was our final seed round.

We were successful in bringing the Lykes Brothers Company on board, one of

the largest, most influential agriculture companies in the US.

They're an ideal partner for us. They completely

believe in our hub mission and bringing production to the point of

consumption focused on end users. They're behind us

100%. Just the resources and the

influence that they bring brings us a tremendous amount of

credibility and obviously capital. But,

you know, as a leader in this industry, you

know, it's not just me anymore. It's not just me and Brad anymore.

Moving into this next level, you know, we're beholden to our

investors. We are beholden to our community.

We've made commitments. And we are beholden and we put our

staff first and foremost. You know, if you take care of

people, they'll take care of you. And even as a small

company, we try to reward our employees with, you know, obviously

livable wages and health insurance and, you know, lots of other

incentives that we work to make their lives better.

It's making this transition now and

looking ahead to our Series A.

So we're preparing for that now. We'll be opening

that up here in the next 60 to 90 days to do our

first Series A raise, which is a huge jump.

I think that biggest lesson for me as a leader

is I'm always looking ahead at where

we're going and what we're doing and driving the company.

On the other hand, I have to remember sometimes how much we've already accomplished.

And give the proper recognition with how far we've come

and with what we've achieved. And I think that's something that's

important for me to constantly remind myself. Yeah, because it's

sometimes hard to see how much progress you make. It's only when looking

back that you can be like, oh, I can't believe it's been so many years

and we've made so much progress. Just surviving 2020, I feel

like we should get a round of applause. Yes, everyone that has.

You know, it's like the year that I wish didn't happen, but

it was good and bad. You know, we learned a lot, made us get efficient,

but just like everybody else. And just what we learned, what wasn't working

and what was broken. And obviously, you know, you talked about owning the

supply chain and just not realizing how much dependency we have

on exterior forces. And to your point, another

wake-up call for the industry. And I think it brought a lot of awareness

also to having access to local food. Food deserts, you know, these

conversations are now— I feel like they're more top of mind now for people. I

couldn't agree more. Our membership

and direct-to-consumer drastically increased during

2020. A couple of reasons. One, I mean, there was major supply

chain issues at grocery stores, and what was there was getting sold out. And

when people realized that they had a farm in their neighborhood, or that, you know,

they could either walk to or people could drive to People,

you know, we were open, obviously with social distancing, but we were open

the whole time. And, you know, now that things

are starting to normalize, you know,

we've maintained most of those relationships. Those customers have stayed with

us because they realize it is a better product and we are a valuable resource

to have in their neighborhood. People want us in their neighborhood.

And then as restaurants are starting to open again, To be able to

get a local product that is so fresh, it

helps stretch their dollar from a purchasing perspective.

And kind of to layer on 2020, I

mean, you've got the West Coast and Southwest going through a

massive drought, which they are now rationing water for

farmers in California and Utah, and 30%

of fields are not even getting planted this year. Wow. Because

of the water shortages. And so, you're starting to see prices of

basic goods Lettuce, almonds, onions,

garlic are starting to go up, and folks realize that, that we're right

here. Yeah, there's some crazy— what's the stat on almonds?

It's— they use a lot of water. It's some absurd,

like, a gallon of water an almond. I don't know, don't quote me on that.

Something like that. Yeah, I remember when I heard it, it was like, makes me

feel really guilty every time I eat an almond. Yes, they are incredible,

which is A lot of people are switching to oat milk because of that. But

yes, yes, we are. We as well. It goes a lot further. What was

your entry into the, the overall

bigger industry? As I don't know if you, you were able to make it start

making it to events and conferences, and have you started to connect

other folks as well? Just in the last

year, we've sort of— Brick Street Farms has been

quietly but aggressively advancing, I would say. We

have been, with my background being in engineering and all the

Duke information that we just, just discussed, we've been

perfecting our systems quietly for the last 5 or 6 years

to build a model that I would put

my own seal of approval on and put it up against

any other machine that's out there on the market. So not only

we design and build our farms, But one of the unique aspects

is that we also operate those, grow the produce, and sell the

produce. So there's a saying, it's kind of eat our own dog

food. Our farms are only as successful as we build. So Brick

Street Farms is only as successful as we build our,

what we call our Thrive Containers. And Thrive Containers is our

manufacturing brand. It's owned by Brick Street Farms, but Thrive

Containers is the brand for the machines.

And Brook Street Farms can only be as successful as good of a machine that

we build. That's true. So we work to build a machine with

highest ROI with the lowest inputs. So,

you know, we, we are really working to build our machines to

be as efficient and productive as possible because we're not building

them and just letting them go. Shipping them off. Yeah. Yep.

Yeah. It's that you have a vested interest in ensuring that they're

performing at peak capacity. Yep. And we're able— we have

the benefits. So, we've got our building team and we've got our farming team.

The feedback loop is immediate. So,

we're able to make tremendous progress very quickly. I was curious,

as you start to think about growing the team and

there's different needs that you had when you started in 2016 and

now it's fast forward 5, 6 years later, what were some of the

experiences you had in deciding where to— where it

made sense to grow the team and where you could hold off and how that's

panned out and what that looks like and what are some different challenges you might

have now? Oh gosh, I feel like that's probably a question you could ask any

startup. Yeah, like I said, being self-funded to start until our

recent Likes Brothers investment, you know, we were operating on

what we brought in is what we could invest. So we worked on a

shoestring. So we focused on investing in

technology and engineering because we needed to produce a farm that

could grow the most nutritiously dense,

healthy, beautiful crop, the highest yield possible

is what we needed because our income depended on it. We also

wanted to work on how do we reduce our electric bill and

how do we reduce our labor costs, you know, there because

we believe in paying folks a living wage and we do

spend a significant amount of time training our staff. So we

invested first in our engineering. I was able to contribute quite a bit

to that. And then building our farming staff.

So I can't go out and hire people that know how to do this,

or at least now I guess you could start to, but the last

few years. So going out and recruiting farmers

and then how to train them to be farm managers and

how to move into supporting customer service, which

is our wholesale customers and then our retail market. So, for them to get that

full lifecycle. We are now investing in all areas of

the business, obviously continuing to invest in our engineering and our

designs, which will be debuted with our Brick Street Farms

Hub at the end of this year, which is a completely new

design from what we have at our headquarters. So, that'll be a

state-of-the-art facility. Okay. With experiential retail.

But right now, we're focused— in addition to that, we're focused on

expanding our brand, our marketing,

our consumer outreach, governmental affairs. We have a team

here that is directly focused on working with local

government officials from the city, state, county, federal

level to influence legislation that benefits

controlled environment agriculture in urban areas. This is an area

that our company is very passionate about because we want

to be in the urban core, and most ag laws are based on rural

traditional agriculture, and, and some of it is prohibitive, let's put

it that way. And so we want to be right downtown. So we have a

team that is working on advancing legislation in

favor of urban, true urban farming,

but to do it under the lens where we have no chemicals, no pesticides,

carbon neutral. And that's a huge initiative for

us. And obviously, we're starting at home here in Pinellas County.

It's a very important one, because just to the topic of food deserts, right, and,

and having local access to food, and it's something I think people don't think about.

So the fact that you're making it a conscious effort to

have those conversations, to have those discussions with local officials,

because the lead time on getting something like that changed, it's probably a little

Oh, we've gone more— we've gone further than just talking. We're actually

drafting legislation. Oh, good. And, you know, working in Tallahassee

to help lobby and get this— get these initiatives passed,

trying to help set some state-level standards that

counties can follow. But then we're also working on local

building and zoning codes. People don't seem to realize how

much building and zoning codes influence That's true.

And it completely influences whether or not we could be in your neighborhood.

So, we've— we're going top-down and bottom-up. Very smart.

Luckily, everybody wants us in their neighborhood. So— Yeah, yeah. Especially when they're,

they're fans of the product and fans of the brand. And I think you've built

up that goodwill in the community to show that you're here to stay, you're here

to grow, and you're here to sort of rising tide lifts all

boats. Like, as you guys have success, then the community sees the

benefits of that success as well. Well, we're a healthy addition. to the community.

And, the fact that we're so modular that we can produce so much food that

we can feed a small city. And, one

other area that we're investing in, you've said this a couple of times,

is we have Brook Street Farms as an associated— we also have a

501. So, Brook Street Farms has Desert Farms

Foundation. Okay. And, that is our nonprofit

organization that is focused on addressing food

deserts in America and specifically focused

on food inequality and nutrition inequality in our

communities. So, what we focus on is how do we apply

the technology and engineering from Brick Street Farms to address food

deserts. And we're not looking at this of bringing a grocery store into the

neighborhood. We're looking at how do we bring fresh,

nutritious produce to the heart of the

issue. And we're partnering with local public

and private institutions here to

actually place some of our farm containers in the most desperate

food deserts in our community. And at the same time, that's

very much an urban area. At least food deserts can be anywhere,

but in our neighborhood it is urban. And we are working on

closing that gap and building that relationship because Desert

Farms Foundation really believes that it's nutrition for all, which is our

mission. And we realize that with the

capabilities that we have, that we have a responsibility to

positively impact the communities that we, that we live.

So we're investing heavily in our foundation. Well, I think that's really

exciting. It's really inspiring because I think it's creating

an awareness not only for the consumer, but also for the people who can see

that this is providing a benefit for where they live. And,

you know, their kids now are growing up and seeing that this is happening. And,

and speaking to our earlier discussion about the potential for

exploring this as a career. And so all those now, all that visibility,

I think is helpful. And I think what's also interesting is

how all the things you've been working on your entire life have

sort of now, the little pieces have come together and probably in a way that

you wouldn't have imagined to have you end up here with

Brick Street. And I think it's been really fascinating and really,

Educational for me to have this conversation with you. No, thank you so

much. I appreciate it. And thank you for recognizing that. It's

been a journey. We have a road ahead of us. I think the

next 24 months are going to be exponential for

Brick Street Farms in our expansion. Like I said, we are

tackling CEA in a different way. Yeah.

And we're really excited that also by supporting Brick Street

Farms, You are directly supporting Desert Farms Foundation. So,

we look forward to how we can expand both entities. So, we'll

make sure we include all the links we mentioned in the show notes. And I

know that you guys are pretty active on your blog as well. So, there's constant

updates highlighting team members. You just recently announced the

funding. So, you guys do a really good job on the marketing front as well.

Well, I will let my marketing team know. Thank you so much for the compliment.

And where's the best place for folks to learn more about Brick Street or

to connect with you or the team? The best way to learn more about Brick

Street Farms is at brickstreetfarms.com. In addition,

if you want to learn more about our technology or the containers specifically, you can

go to thrivecontainers.com. Okay. And in short order,

our Desert Farms Foundation website is currently being

constructed, and that will be coming out soon. But you can find some

basic information about the foundation on the Brick Street Farms website as

well. And if there's any marketing announcements that are coming up, and obviously

you've got another possible good news on the funding as well, when

that happens, you know, feel free to always just share with me and I'll make

sure to promote it as well on socials. Absolutely, of course. I know

you've been working with our head of business development. Yes. Uh, Madeline

McNaughton. Yes. And, uh, yeah, so we'll always be in touch and,

uh, you know, we look forward to staying in contact. Yeah. And

so Shannon, thank you for the— for taking the time. I'm just really appreciative that

we got connected and I just, as I've been learning more about the

industry, and I'm trying to tell some of the different stories of

people that may not be getting as much airtime or stage

time. So it's really refreshing to just paint a

broader picture about what's happening in the vertical farming industry, and to have

it be inspiring. I'm Latino, so, you know, to people of color, to women,

you know, to understand that this is an industry that's growing, that has a lot

of opportunities, and I think that the future is pretty bright. There's more than 3

companies in this space, so we'll get

Yes, we will absolutely get there. And I appreciate you taking the time

for speaking with me. I've been listening to your podcast for a while and I

find all of these varying perspectives interesting. So I

definitely will continue to listen. I appreciate that. Thank you, Shannon. Thank

you, Harry. Thanks again to Shannon for coming on the show and sharing her stories.

Full show notes available at verticalfarmingpodcast.com.

Special thanks to our season 4 title sponsor, Cultivated, If you're

looking into a vertical farm and don't know where to start or which technology would

suit your needs, reach out to them today. Best of all, their service

is free because they work on behalf of their partners. Learn more at

cultivated.com, and that's spelled C-U-L-T-I-V-A-T-E-D.com.

Just leave out that last E. Also, special thanks to Freight Farms,

manufacturing and selling the leading vertical hydroponic container farm, the Greenery S. Visit

freightfarms.com/verticalfarmingpodcast.

and Indoor AgCon. Learn more and take advantage of early bird registration

discounts at indoor.ag. And don't forget the $100 off you can

save with promo code

VFPOD2021. Podcast production and marketing provided by Fullcast. Sign up for our

free podcast brainstorm to learn how a podcast can be helpful for

your business at fullcast.co/vfp15.

And again, that reminder, if you're enjoying the show, leave us a rating and a

review at ratethispodcast.com. And we will

be sure— that is me— read them out on future

episodes. Tune in next week for my conversation with

Craig Hurlburt of Local Bounty. Until we meet again,

here's to your health. Thanks for listening. To read the full show

notes for this episode, which includes any links mentioned in the

episode, as well as a full show transcription, visit

verticalfarmingpodcast.com. There, you can sign up

for our email list to be notified when new episodes are published.

$680 million poured into precision ag last year.

Autonomous weeding robots dominated, and John Deere made 2 acquisitions in 3

months. A food company, not an equipment maker, bought a

robotics startup to protect its own supply chain. The deals are

accelerating, the money is moving, and the winners are already separating from the

pack. If you're investing, building, or buying in this space,

you need the full picture before your competitors get it. The 2025

Precision Agriculture Intelligence Report from iGrow News is

now available. Get your copy today at

igrownews.com/precision.