In this episode of PSP, host Nii Wallace-Bruce discusses Rory McIlroy's thrilling victory at the Masters, his first win at the tournament in 14 years. Special guest, Donnie Dotson, founder and CEO of Carry Golf (8:40), joins the conversation to break down the memorable moments of the weekend and the mental resilience required for success in golf (2:35).

Dotson also shares insights into his organization, Carry Golf, which helps up-and-coming golfers with financial support (13:33). The discussion highlights the growing importance of analytics in golf (5:12) and the challenges young athletes face in securing the resources needed to compete professionally (20:46).

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Opening and closing music courtesy of Jeremiah Alves - "Evermore".

Welcome to PSP.

2

I'm your host, Mr.

3

Nemo Spruce, and It is the

Monday after the Sunday.

4

That was Master Sunday

and it was an epic finish.

5

Rory McElroy, he had a case of the

Sunday Scary so that we didn't have

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to, after 14 years, broke through

to win his first master's tournament

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and he had to do it via the.

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Regretted a

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Playoff 18

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he took care of business

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in the end.

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able to, push past

Justin Rose from England.

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It was

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great Day for

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Ireland,

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Northern Ireland.

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it was great

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Great day for those who are

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into that TGA golf.

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Probably not a great day for

the LIV golfers, but we can

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leave that for another day.

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Nevertheless, I wanna bring in

someone who's gonna help us break

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down that Epic Masters weekend.

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He has his own business , that

helps golfers getting into the

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game and furthering their game.

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It is Donnie Dotson,

founder and CEO of KA golf.

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how you doing?

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Donnie Dotson / Carry:

I'm doing very well.

29

I appreciate the chance to come on your

show and excited to chat about, what

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we saw yesterday and over the weekend.

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PSP: Absolutely Donny think of

masters moments, was Tiger Woods

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four or five years ago, coming back

from injury and winning How epic

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was Rory McElroy's victory to you?

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Donnie Dotson / Carry: Yeah, I think it's

definitely in the conversation of most

35

memorable masters, certainly within, my

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What was exciting about yesterday and the

parallel between Tiger's last victory is.

37

It wasn't smooth sailing for all 18 holes.

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he had to go through some

emotional and, golf ups and

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downs over four or five hours.

40

It seemed like every time he had

gotten ahead, he was gonna stay there.

41

All of a sudden someone else made a charge

or he had, a less than desirable shot.

42

So made for a rollercoaster of emotions

wonderful tv, wherever you were viewing

43

for Rory, it's the culmination of His

life's dream he's now won all the majors.

44

He's in rarefied air with five other

people to complete the career Grand Slam.

45

So as I think about yesterday, I

put it into the conversation of

46

greatest masters we've ever seen.

47

PSP: the whole weekend was pretty special.

48

Rory did get out to great

start of a Thursday, Friday,

49

the first customer rounds.

50

He led the, the top half into the

weekend, and then it became a real

51

dog fight for him to stay at the

top and to finish the way he did.

52

How important is the mental aspect

staying the course between the ears

53

as much as making shots on the green,

54

Donnie Dotson / Carry: Well,

for Rory this weekend, that was

55

everything, he hit some of the best

shots I can recall given the moment.

56

he also hit some of the worst

shots, which were part mental

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and physical execution breakdown.

58

I believe in golf.

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More so than any other sport.

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So much is played between the ears.

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for our business, Carrie, we help up

and coming professional golfers who

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have all the talent and work ethic

in the world all the self-belief.

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I.

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But they're, they're on the front

end of their career where it's

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financially very challenging.

66

how can we help keep them in the game?

67

And, and certainly one of the

resources we wanna provide is is

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the ability for athletes to get

the right mental edge and coaching.

69

we look at their resilience, have they

overcome some adversity off the course?

70

one of the stats that I'm particularly

fond of within golf is called bounce

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back percentage, and that speaks to

how often someone makes a birdie After

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making a bogey the previous hole.

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I think that's a good indicator.

74

you see all the greats do it.

75

Scotty Scheffler, who finished top five

this weekend, didn't have his best stuff.

76

But if you go back and look the

holes where he had a lapse and made

77

a bogey, it's amazing how many times

he follows that up with a birdie.

78

And in Rory's case.

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he set a record.

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He had four double bogies over the

course of the masters and still won.

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And that's never been done before.

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And so that speaks to just incredible

talent, but incredible mental resolve

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to say, Hey, no matter what I encounter

out here whether self-inflicted or

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otherwise, I'm gonna finish the race.

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And I think there are other

times in his career where.

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Given what transpired, some of those

unforced errors or, double bogies, he

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might have mentally not been as tough.

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But he found a way his team found a way

to stay in the fight we all like stories,

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where people have to overcome adversity.

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he certainly did so this week, and it's,

it's a testament not only to the physical

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skill, but certainly his mental toughness.

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PSP: I remember when he burst on the

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the course, set to blow everyone away.

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it seemed like he was gonna be

the heir apparent to Tiger Woods.

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he may still be.

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that, but at that time it seemed like

he was gonna take all before him.

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And then it was almost like a

meltdown on those last few holes.

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So to see the full circle, to see him have

that experience, channel it and use it

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to go beyond in this current tournament.

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And overcame the bogies,

that ability to bounce back.

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You mentioned the bounce back metric.

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How important is analytics

in golf nowadays?

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'cause I think about baseball analytics,

basketball's adopting analytics.

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How important is it for golf nowadays?

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Donnie Dotson / Carry: data and

analytics in basketball and baseball have

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changed the game, in tremendous ways.

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it's the same for golf not long ago,

having a high-end launch monitor, you can

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think you know, TrackMan or foresight.

109

Stuff like having one of

those was, was nice to have.

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and they've quickly become table stakes

as players want to better understand spin

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rates and, exact distances for every club.

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Regardless of elevation, regardless of of

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weather

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conditions.

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And I think that speaks

to overall strategy.

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for OnCourse there's been a proliferation

of companies and resources out there that

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help players think about how they're gonna

take their game, whether they're a long

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hitter, a short hitter, whether they're

really good around the greens or maybe

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struggle with scoring clubs, how they

can take their game to a given course

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each week and best attack that course

based on their strengths and weaknesses.

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it's pretty fascinating to watch.

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It's interesting as a fan, when you're

watching it on TV to see the calculations

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that an athlete and and their caddy is

going through before they, before they

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hit a given shot or play a given hole.

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it's also fun when data analytics

say do X Rory's a great example.

126

There were instances where the smart

play, the statistical you know,

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recommendation would've been you hit a

bad shot off the tee, take your medicine

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punch out into the fairway and maybe

try to get up and down for par or bogey

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PSP: but

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Donnie Dotson / Carry: He said, all

right, I recognize what stats and,

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and data may say, but I'm still

a incredibly talented athlete.

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And, and he went after some shots

that were probably ill-advised,

133

but to his credit, pulled him off.

134

And, you know, from a viewing

standpoint, it, it, it made

135

for even more compelling drama.

136

PSP: Yeah.

137

I think for who weren't able to

watch, definitely check out what

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Rory did in the final round on

the 15th hole in the 17th hole.

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Those.

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Yeah, I can see those being in a 30 30.

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Rory's gotta get his own 30.

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30 by the way.

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Donnie Dotson / Carry: I agree.

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some holes on the front nine where he

was, blocked out by the trees a bit.

145

I remember listening to, the US

broadcast Talking about, a window

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to go through and, you know, you're

not, you're watching it on tv so you

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don't see everything, to its fullest.

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But it was hard to see those

windows if not all of them.

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And not only to have the creativity

and talent to pull off those

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shots, but also just to have the.

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mental toughness to say, I'm

gonna do something hard and cool

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for everyone watching at home.

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you're right, 15 and 17, those shots,

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PSP: shine.

155

Donnie Dotson / Carry: after, 16, he

missed a putt he should have made for

156

birdie On 13, the previous par five He

went from a great position for birdie

157

and really pat his lead to hitting

probably the worst wed shot of his career.

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And, and one of the worst wed shots, I,

I can recall giving the stakes and rather

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than walking off with a birdie or easy

par, he walked off with a double bogey

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and all of a sudden it was game on again.

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fascinating stuff and I think.

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Going back to the original question,

stats and data, played a big role

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in how he attacked the course

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But then there was some gut

instinct, stepping up and hitting

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a shot, even if it went against

what stats and data recommended.

166

PSP: No doubt there was some

muscle memory in there as well.

167

The masters are unique in the sense

that it's always played a little

168

Augusta, that there isn't a whole

lot of change from year to year.

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So can get a good feel for the course

if you're playing there quite readily.

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Now, is interesting 'cause I know that

you spend a lot of time in the water

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of analytics a company I've had an

interest in sport radar as well as in

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finance you also had the mental toughness

and the discipline from your service.

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you are a Marine, so you

for your service there.

174

how do you combine those two

traits to create the business

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that you have carry golf?

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Donnie Dotson / Carry: when people

ask how did you go from being in the

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world of national security and finance

to creating carry, it's easy for me.

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for me.

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At almost 44.

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It's easy for me to kind of weave together

a narrative or personal journey where

181

all the different stops along the way

for me personally and professionally

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made sense and resulted in carry.

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You know, my personal

background, I grew up in South

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Florida, so golf is everywhere.

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I played recreationally only,

never played competitively.

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And my handicap would bear that out,

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out, my parents didn't have a ton

of money things like college or

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a country club membership we're

definitely not on the table.

189

if it wasn't for my military service,

I could have never afforded college

190

if it wasn't for people going

out of their way to invest in me.

191

Maybe not in terms of, you know,

financially, but certainly in

192

terms of mentorship, leadership,

wisdom, we wouldn't be having

193

this conversation right now.

194

And so as I think about my career.

195

PSP: career

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Donnie Dotson / Carry: There was so

much planted in me or that I began to

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envision at a young age that has its

fingerprints on the origin story of Carey.

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PSP: but

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Donnie Dotson / Carry: But in a more

tangible sense, military experience.

200

does give you discipline,

which I badly needed.

201

Also, going back to that

conversation of resilience,

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PSP: night,

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Donnie Dotson / Carry:

While I never played

204

PSP: played

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Donnie Dotson / Carry: I can see

a lot of parallels between what it

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takes to be a successful professional

golfer and a successful entrepreneur.

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Resilience is key to both.

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You're gonna have plenty of days where

you feel like things are going well,

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but then you're also gonna have plenty

of days where it feels like it's a

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real struggle and you just have to keep

putting one foot in front of the other.

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And then, you know, you

mentioned sport radar.

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I got to do a variety of things there

in my two years with the company.

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I joined just before Covid, shut down

sports and, the world it was a crash

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course for someone who is a fan many

sports and grew up playing them,

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but never worked in the industry.

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When you're just a fan It's easy to lose

sight of the fact that all of these these

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athletes, these teams, these, these events

that we watch on TV or in person, that

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they're also underlying businesses too.

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it gave me appreciation for how

leagues federations make money, but

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certainly how teams and individual

athletes not only make money, but fund

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their professional athletic endeavors

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Going back five years to the start of

Covid, I was ignorant to the path from

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being a good amateur or collegiate player

to making the top global golf tours.

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I was ignorant to the

depth of talent out there,

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Competing on lower level events.

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if it wasn't for being at

Sportradar, a company that transacts

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in collecting sports data from.

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Events all over the world and then

distributing that data to media outlets,

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sports betting and fantasy operators.

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I probably wouldn't have

had the key discovery that

231

led to the origin of Carrie.

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so much talent out there competing,

to earn their big tour cards.

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in the early days of their careers.

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Unlike other sports where there's

guaranteed compensation, golf

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doesn't come with that, right?

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So you can think of golf, tennis,

there's plenty of others where if

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you're an individual athlete, you

are essentially your own business.

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like most businesses, your first order

of business once you turn professional is

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PSP: is

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Donnie Dotson / Carry: gotta find the

runway to train and compete the right way.

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PSP: Money.

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Donnie Dotson / Carry:

And there are a lot of,

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PSP: of,

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Donnie Dotson / Carry: Some athletes.

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Thrive.

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Most struggle to get

the funding they need.

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PSP: So,

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Donnie Dotson / Carry:

my career journey, which

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PSP: which

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Donnie Dotson / Carry: some tangible

and intangible skills along the way

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ultimately culminating at Sport Radar

before launching Carry really helped shape

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my appreciation for this reality that

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PSP: And

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Donnie Dotson / Carry: regardless of your

background, regardless of your profession,

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what adversity you've had to overcome.

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There is no such thing

as a self-made person.

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if you've had any kind of success in life,

there are a lot of other people who had

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a hand in getting you to where you are.

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how could we create a company

within golf that really lives out?

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Those ethos where we could help up and

coming athletes chase their dreams, right?

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And, and people who have been

successful and other walks of

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life could kind of pay it forward

263

PSP: Absolutely.

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if you head over to carry golf,

you can see athletes who have

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benefited from this partnership.

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it's not just male athletes,

it's female athletes as well.

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You've got athletes on there.

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LPGA tour.

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Epson tour.

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college athletes, you got athletes

in the PGA tour, the Korn Ferry,

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which feeds into the, PGA tour.

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How have you managed to, build

out this network of golfers.

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Donnie Dotson / Carry:

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I had just raised a small round

from angel investors in my network.

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I said, Hey, we want to create this

platform that's gonna help up and coming.

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Professional golfers, men and women chase

their dreams and ideally go from chasing

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their dreams to living their dreams,

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Playing, competing,

winning on the top tours.

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our model has evolved about a month

ago, we launched a, a new marketplace,

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which you can find@appcarry.golf.

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I.

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And that has right now about 40

athletes, a mix of men and women, we're

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always gonna have at least 50% women.

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as expensive as it is for the

guys competing in the early days,

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it's even more so for the ladies.

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our model has evolved and with this

marketplace, a resource, a platform

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where up and coming athletes,

from many sports tell their story.

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Hi, I'm nee here's my resume cv.

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Here's a little bit about who

I am as a person and here's

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different ways you can support me.

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through corporate sponsorships or brand

ambassadorships endorsement deals.

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You know, donating to, to

someone's career fund or.

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one of the things that's unique to our

marketplace is people can support golfers

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by buying unique experiences, Golf is

an experiential game, and what we've

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learned over the last few years since we

launched is that most people who supported

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previous iterations or athletes on our

platform were doing it because they love

297

golf and they wanted to feel closer to

the game and, to professional golfers.

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So how could we create.

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Different experiential elements.

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think private Pro-Am outings with

our golfers swing lessons caddying in

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practice rounds of big tournaments.

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there's really an endless

amount of possibilities.

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it's been a neat endeavor and, and

I'm excited about where our model sits

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now and, and where our platform sits.

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And I'm excited that over the next

six months, I anticipate onboarding

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another hundred athletes let's make

this truly a, a place where athletes

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and, and fans of sports can go and

say, this is a great resource for

308

supporting the next generation of stars.

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PSP: golf is an Olympic sport.

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that's hoping to make the

game more international.

311

reaching parts of the globe

where it hadn't reached before.

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when you and I were younger,

it was about Woods, John Daily,

313

Annika, Sosti, Kari Webb, and LPGA.

314

Tell me where you see the game going

in terms of personalities and the

315

future of golf in the near term.

316

Donnie Dotson / Carry: golf

has always been a sport.

317

it sometimes gets a bad name or bad

branding as, a, a boring sport, often

318

played by stodgy folks from wealthy

country clubs there's some of that,

319

but it's also a game, especially at

the highest levels of personalities.

320

I grew up A huge fan of Chichi Rodriguez.

321

Every time he made a putt, he did

his swashbuckling sword routine.

322

that was entertaining, whether in person

or, on TV over the years, you can think

323

of the Lee Trevinos, you can think of the,

the Chevys, the certainly Tiger Woods.

324

Like these were big personalities

that had an influence beyond golf.

325

when I think about golf in 2025, a

lot of the players we work with, a

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lot of these young athletes, their

starting point, the reason they got

327

into the game because of Tiger Woods,

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Either they were a young boy or girl when

he was in his heyday 20, 25 years ago,

329

or someone in their family was a big fan.

330

I'm reminded one of the athletes

we just started working with

331

comes from South Africa.

332

he's got dual citizenship in the uk,

where he resides most of the year.

333

His name is Robin Tiger Williams.

334

his dad a successful cricket player, loved

golf and named Robin after Tiger Woods.

335

it really speaks to the influence of

personalities if one generation can

336

be influenced by a tiger or an Annika

as they mature carve their paths as

337

professionals, we'll see more and more

personalities come into the forefront.

338

and frankly, that makes for a

lot more entertaining sport.

339

It makes for a lot more engaging

conversations like this one.

340

there's probably 25 people I could

list right now that I think of as a

341

big personality within the sport, not

the least of which would be Bryson, who

342

went into yesterday's final round with

a chance to win golf's in a good place.

343

the household names we love to

cheer for and watch there are

344

many of those even without the.

345

Tigers and Annika is still competing.

346

And as someone who works with

younger pros, I can tell you there

347

are many wonderful personalities

poised to become household names soon

348

PSP: I look forward to

seeing that down the line.

349

It's good to hear the

game is in a good place.

350

innovations and analytics are

helping optimize performances

351

and with sustainability and

day-to-day survival off the course.

352

'cause let's face it.

353

You gonna be able to eat

in between rounds, right?

354

I have one question

355

Question.

356

NCAA athletes because name,

image, and likeness has come up

357

in the last four or five years.

358

is Carrie able to assist with

NIL for athletes in college

359

Donnie Dotson / Carry: With our new

model, our new marketplace you're

360

gonna start seeing us onboard

quite a few student athletes.

361

We're working with Nicholas Matthews in

his last year at North Carolina State.

362

Very talented and great

person on and off the course.

363

our marketplace model, particularly

the experiential elements , that I

364

was speaking to a few minutes ago,

because it offers a quid pro quo

365

for anyone who supports athletes.

366

We're now in a place where we can

start supporting, college players.

367

I think that's a great opportunity, not

just for us, but certainly for athletes.

368

One thing that I found is, you know,

our starting point for, for Carrie was.

369

let's eliminate or at least

mitigate the variable that finance

370

plays within an athlete's career.

371

The oldest cliche in golf

is the sports meritocracy.

372

If you play well, you'll climb the levels.

373

I fully agree with that, but it

assumes that everyone is starting with

374

a similar allocation of resources.

375

And , to your, earlier point.

376

If you're the kind of player that's

wondering where your next meal's gonna

377

come from or how you're gonna afford

to travel to the next tournament or

378

the entry fee, you're not exactly

competing on a fair spectrum with

379

the person who's taken a private jet.

380

has, two or three track mans launch

monitors a personal chef, all those

381

resources, those are great for the

people who have earned them for sure.

382

But how could we mitigate that Working

with college players is exciting for us

383

we found for some players waiting until

they turn professional, 22, 23, 24.

384

In some cases it may be too

late because they didn't get

385

that support while they were.

386

17 to 22, didn't play against

the highest levels in college.

387

didn't get the right coaching.

388

how can we be a resource for players in

their later amateur days to say, I've got

389

what it takes I want to give it a run.

390

As a professional, how can we,

build a community around them?

391

support structure much earlier so

that when they turn pro, it isn't?

392

Now I gotta figure out where my

funding is coming from, where

393

my next tournament's gonna be.

394

rather they're already in an

ecosystem setting them up for success.

395

I would love to see us work with more

student athletes and excited about what

396

NIL does for us to be able to do so.

397

PSP: Absolutely.

398

Obviously had a few careers

leading up to this one.

399

I get the sense you've always had to look

ahead, whether as a marine or in finance

400

analytics, always about what's next?

401

do you see any potential challenges?

402

in the golf industry or even beyond

that, that you're gonna have to

403

navigate in the next few months,

404

Donnie Dotson / Carry: one attribute

that combines all the different

405

things I've done over the last 20 plus

years can be looked at as an element

406

of like perpetual worrying or, or

perpetual planning, in the Marines

407

we always talk about proper planning,

preventing piss poor performance.

408

that's true in every walk of life.

409

where I sit now from a, a standpoint of.

410

You know, what are my, my big

concerns as it relates to the business

411

or the fundamentals for carry?

412

it's hard to tune out whether it's

geopolitical or, economic here in

413

the US it's been a rollercoaster of

at least a few weeks when it comes

414

to all things capital markets, all

things tariffs, potential trade war.

415

And I, I think those things are

concerning for any business.

416

But when you are a younger business

like ours, targeting, discretionary

417

spending, from companies or

individuals, it's hard not to worry,

418

If a company we are gonna do business

with has a strong foothold or exports

419

from a country that's now looking

at 50% or greater tariffs, how does

420

that impact their marketing budget?

421

How does that impact a deal

that we may have in place?

422

So I think for me, in the short term, and

423

concern is the macroeconomic environment?

424

How does it impact, our business model

and our ability to get sponsorships for

425

deserving athletes recognizing companies

may be looking at their marketing

426

and, cost of goods sold differently.

427

PSP: with proper planning, you

can prevent piss for performance.

428

I've learned something new today.

429

Now is that five or six Ps?

430

Donnie Dotson / Carry: So I think

it's six Ps but there was a five, six,

431

or seven version depending on which

adjectives you wanted to add in there.

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And may, maybe that's for

a different conversation.

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PSP: no worries.

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I'm sure I've used said

adjectives on the golf course.

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'cause my level of patience is not

as much as some of your clients or

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folks you saw on the mo, but all good.

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I have utmost respect for those

who play golf professionally.

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some of the best and have it going

on between the ears as we discussed.

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Donnie Dotson / Carry: I'm glad you

said that because, starting this with

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Carrie, I'm a fan of the sport, it

really tries my patience whether I'm

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playing poorly watching it on tv.

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it's such an impossible sport in

so many ways when you think about

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everything it takes to make it as

a professional athlete or golfer.

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I hate the idea that people who have the

talent the work ethic and the game and,

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and the, the, the mental fortitude or,

or strength between the ears, I hate the

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idea that they have all those things.

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And the one missing ingredient might

just be, startup capital, right?

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when I think about golf, the

things it takes have, success

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as a professional tour player.

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Even the macroeconomic environment I

think startup capital, is the easiest

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to deliver you could give me a million

dollars to play golf every day for

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the rest of my life, and I'm never

coming close to being a tour player.

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most people are in that category.

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these players who really do

have the tangible and intangible

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skills the whole reason we exist

is because the sport's hard.

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let's try to mitigate important variable.

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so athletes can go about not only chasing

their dreams, but living their dreams.

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PSP: Absolutely.

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make sure you check out Kerry

Kerry Golf on X, formerly

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known as Twitter at no Kerry?

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No, spelled KNOW.

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And on Instagram at Your Carry.

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find more information and you can

also see some athletes from this very

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innovative and unique solution, bridging

the gap between golfers and their

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dreams because like Donnie's mentioned,

is not always easy to pursue such a

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dream, but with the help of support

of others, folks are able to make it.

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So don't even

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Appreciate time today.

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is there anything else you

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Donnie Dotson / Carry: Else

wanted to share the audience.

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No, I, I'm just grateful for coming

on the show and chance to chat.

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this is my first time talking about

the Masters since it transpired

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yesterday and was fun to relive some

of those moments shots that I think

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will endure for many decades to come.

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PSP: no doubt about it.

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And shout out to Jim Nance, by the way

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Donnie Dotson / Carry: Absolutely.

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PSP: there's an answer Who says.

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The most when he says nothing, you

know, just being able to capture

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that moment for about five or six

minutes when Rory broke through.

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you can tell that done a few masters

tournaments and he understood the moments.

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Donnie Dotson / Carry: You're right.

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I saw something on Twitter

right before we got on here.

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PSP: hmm.

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Donnie Dotson / Carry: between

him and Trevor Immelman,

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the color analyst for CBS.

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When Rory won, there was like a

seven minute period where they

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combined to only say 46 words.

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PSP: Yes,

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Donnie Dotson / Carry:

makes for great viewing.

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I didn't necessarily appreciate it in

the moment, but afterwards you think

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about it and it's like, yeah, we just

wanted to hear the conversations.

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We wanted to see the embraces between him

and his daughter and wife I think they

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captained the boat really well there.

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PSP: I'm looking forward

to that documentary when it

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comes out on Rory McElroy.

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Donnie Dotson / Carry:

It'll definitely be out 30.

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For 30.

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You're right.

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PSP: a hundred percent.

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I'm looking forward to that.

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In the interim, we'll wait

with interest, but in the

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meantime, check out Carrie Golf.

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This is another episode of PSP, and I've

been your host, Neal Bruce, take care.