It’s the basic question we all want an answer to, how do you sell more products?

My guest on the podcast today is here to help. Mark Endacott runs an online retail company, a business consultancy firm specialising in one to one sales training and business mentoring and an online sales training course which is launching soon. Put it simply Mark knows sales.

We talk about some of the mental blocks you might be experiencing when it comes to selling. Mark gives some great advice about how to overcome them whether you are selling face to face, online, on your website, on social media, or in emails.

We dig deep into the art of selling, from understanding your core product function to harnessing emotional connections. Mark shared invaluable tips on overcoming the fear of selling, leveraging email marketing, and the power of a compelling call to action. Plus, we talked about the importance of knowing your target market and adapting your strategies. Whether you're a startup or an established brand, this episode is a goldmine of insights

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Welcome to the bring your product idea to Life podcast.

This is the podcast for you if you're getting started selling products or if you'd

like to create your own product to sell. I'm Vicki Weinberg, a product

creation coach and Amazon expert. Every week I share friendly,

practical advice as well as inspirational stories from small businesses.

Let's get started.

Hi. So today I'm talking to Mark Endacott. Mark helps people

understand how and where to sell their products, overcoming the fears and

mental blocks that hinder their success. So the conversation I had with Mark

today is all about sales and specifically how you can sell more of your

products. We talk a little bit about some of the mental blocks you might be

experiencing when you're thinking about selling. Mark gives

some great advice about how to overcome any mental blocks you might be experiencing

when it comes to selling your products, whether that's face to face, or whether that's

online, on your website, on social media, in emails. We

cover all kinds of topics and I think you're going to get some really useful

and practical ways out of this episode that you can sell more of

your existing products. So I would love now to introduce you to Mark.

Hi, Mark. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me.

Oh, you're so welcome. So, can we start with you? Please give an introduction to

yourself, your business, what you do, and who you work with. Yeah.

So my name is Mark Endercott. I actually run three

different businesses. I run an online retail company.

I run a business consultancy firm specializing in one to

one sales training and business mentoring. And I have an

online sales training company with an online sales training course

launching soon. Brilliant. Thank

you. So I invited you on to talk about sales and

specifically selling products, how we can sell more of them, and maybe some

of the barriers that are preventing us from getting more sales at the moment.

And one topic I'd love to talk to you about and get your take on

is fear of selling. Because as silly as it may sounds, especially when you're

selling, whether it's a product or a service, often we can be a little bit

hesitant or scared about selling or

seeming salesy. So can you talk a little bit to that, why you

think that is, and perhaps any advice you have on how we can get around

that? Yeah, so, I mean, there's kind of two different elements

to this. I spend a lot of time talking about the psychology of sales

and of the sales process. And people have

fear around selling for two reasons. One is perception of

themselves and the other is the inability

to actually ask for money so they don't

want to come across as pushy. The biggest problem is that people

associate sales with car salespeople and those kind of

door to door salespeople, those kind of hard sell,

pushy, I'll take your money no matter what I'm selling you kind

of thing. And that's actually such a minority

of what sales is. Sales is like a whole

combination of marketing, branding and then the ability

to actually close a deal. And I

often think that people's fear is around not

wanting to appear as if they're trying to sell. And

the reality is everybody's trying to sell something to somebody. It

doesn't matter what your job role is. And I used to have this conversation a

lot before I went self employed, that every department

in a business is in sales, whether they want to be or not, because

they have an impact on how the business chooses to operate

and therefore how the business chooses to sell. And

it's about understanding that sales isn't

selling, it's helping. If you're doing it correctly, and if you're

properly verifying customers and clients, things like that,

you're helping them because you're not selling them something they don't need.

And if you can kind of look at it that way, that helps with that

side of it. But then the other side, which is the whole fear

around asking for money, a lot of that.

Sometimes it's a fear of money, sometimes it's a fear of rejection.

But a lot of people have money hang ups around.

They either don't understand and perceive the value of

what they're selling themselves, so they don't know how to

kind of ask for x amount of money for this

product, or they

just genuinely have a money kind of mental block

that means that they find it uncomfortable to talk about.

I spend most of my time working with people around those two things. The perception

of how it looks to sell and how you

actually get comfortable about talking money

with potential customers and clients.

Yeah, that's really helpful, thank you. And as you were talking, I was reflecting on

the fact that you were talking about helping. And I think that obviously if you're

selling a product, you're selling it for a reason. And whatever it is,

you're selling it with somebody in mind, your product is going to help someone in

some way. And whether helping means, I don't know, brightening up their

wall, or it's more of a practical product that, I don't know,

helps them get their baby to sleep or whatever the thing is,

presumably there's that aspect to it as well. That as if you know that what

you have is a good product and it genuinely meets a

need, I think that's also perhaps a good place to start

from as well. Yeah. So you've really got to

understand what you are trying to achieve with your

product and who you are trying to help. And that,

like, for example, if you think about

the number of times you'll see an advert on social media for something that

isn't relevant to you, and you find yourself thinking, who

set these adverts up? Who do they think they're

targeting with this product? And it's interesting

that the same thing happens when you are physically talking to somebody, trying to sell

them a product. You need to verify if they actually have a

requirement for your product before you ever sell them anything. And I

see so many people, I work with a lot of sales teams,

and the salespeople think that everybody's their

potential client. They could sell to anybody. And actually,

within the first five minutes of a conversation, you should be able to determine if

you can help that person, not sell to them, help

them. And that's how you build the relationship. If you can help them

with product that you have within your arsenal of

options, then that's great. You can then proceed down

a sales process and try and

explain to them how you can help them. But if

you haven't within the first five minutes, understood

whether you can help them or not, you really aren't doing the right things. You're

not asking the right questions, you're not understanding your role in a sales

process. Thank you. And I guess that's really

helpful when you're selling. I don't know if it's a trade shower in a shop

and you're seeing your customers face to face, but how can we apply

that when we're selling online, for example,

or when we're doing social media posts about our products?

Yeah. So when you're selling online, obviously it's slightly

different, but you still need to understand that

you want a. For example, let's take a website page with a product

description and photos and all that. That needs to very

quickly highlight who it helps, how it

helps, and what it does exactly in that order.

So if you put a social media post out, so say you were

talking example about trying to get a baby to sleep. Product help of getting

baby to sleep. The top of the social media post,

are you a tired parent?

Does your baby struggle to sleep without being

cuddled? We've got the product for you. And then you

talk about what the product does, how you can evidence and

prove that the product works, social proof is always massively

important, but it's about tapping into the

emotions. It's always with sales, it's always about the emotional

connection. Why does this person want to buy your

product? You can have the best product in the world

that does exactly what that person needs. But if they

don't connect with the idea, if they don't understand

the idea, if they don't emotionally invest in

what it can do for them, it's going to be a lot

harder to sell to them. That makes a lot of

sense. And I think also by taking that approach, you're also

kind of getting the attention of the people who might

be your customers. So in your example, tired parents, but

anyone else, if you're not a tired parent, you'll probably just

scroll right past that post because it's not for you. So I guess there's something

in knowing who you're targeting as well, because there is

that saying, isn't there, that if you're selling to everybody, you're selling to nobody.

So I guess there's an element of if you're really set on what your product

does, who it's for, who it's going to benefit. Because I think it can be

really tempting to say, oh, well, my products are for everyone, but nothing's

for everyone. No, again, it's something

that when I've done sales room

with various people, like small business owners,

the number one thing is what's your niche? Well, I don't really have a niche.

Okay. Our first session is entirely

dedicated to understanding why you do have a niche and you just haven't

found it yet, and how important that is.

Even down to people selling services or people selling their own time.

They need to niche the number of people out there who are just generic

business consultants or business coaches.

It's so much harder to sell yourself as a I can answer

every question business coach than it is as a I am a

business mentor with a specialism in sales.

So people who are looking for a mentor who can help them to improve their

sales figures, I immediately am going to be more

attractive to them than just a generic business mentor who doesn't specialize

in sales. So it's about

understanding. Again, everybody has an emotional attachment to

what they do. One of the hardest things that people

have to overcome when they start selling a physical product.

And it's harder in person because online you can just kind of

ignore it. But the rejection element of it as well,

and bad reviews online are the equivalent to a rejection in person.

I would say it's not personal.

It will feel personal because it's your product, but it's not a

personal attack. It's that person's opinion, their

perception, their understanding of that product and why it's

not right for them or why it didn't work for them. And all

it is is something you can take on board. And it might

be that your website page description

sold it to that person when it wasn't right for that person. Go

back and look at your wording. Why did that person leave a one star review

saying it didn't do what it should have done, when actually it wasn't designed to

do what they wanted if they've bought it, thinking

it will? You need to reword your description so that it

highlights that it doesn't do that thing. Otherwise you're just going to continue to have

disappointment. That's really helpful. That's another really good

takeaway, actually, about being really clear about what your product is and what it does

and possibly what it doesn't do as well. I know that. I really appreciate when

I read a product description and it will say at the end, I don't know,

this product doesn't come with this feature or this thing or

this isn't included, whatever it is, because there's nothing worse than

spending your money on something, receiving it and thinking, oh, that isn't

what I expected. So I think the more information you can give,

the better. I think that there's a lot to be said for sort of a

customer knowing exactly what it is that you are selling because then they're making

really informed decision, which I think also coming back to that psychology bit makes

you feel better as well, because you know

that you're not selling. I don't know. You're not being disingenuous.

Disingenuous. You're not being dishonest. You've given a really accurate description.

I think that can also really help. Yeah, I mean, how often do

you buy something online or you go to buy something online and as

you're just making the decision, you scroll down, go, I should have a look at

the reviews. And it's a review that highlights you that it doesn't do

the very thing you were buying it for. Everything about the

product description and the photos implies, oh, yeah, that's perfect. That's exactly what I've been

looking for. And then you get down to the reviews and one review says, it

doesn't do this. And you go, I won't buy that. Then, because

that is exactly what I wanted it for. And you would have fallen into the

same trap as the person who left that review. That's a poor product

description in that situation because it's implying it can do something. It

can. And that's almost the used car salesperson of

product descriptions. And it's about, yes, it's

important to get sales, but it's getting the right sales

and getting sales for the right reasons. That's really what's

key. And the sooner people understand

that the psychology of sales, it's a two sided

coin. It's got both the consumer and the

seller on the same coin, just on different sides.

And it's a real difficult balancing act getting that

coin to land perfectly on the edge in the middle so

both sides can see the benefit. It's very easy to flip

it. It lands seller side up. Your psychology is great. You think you're doing

well, but actually the consumer isn't getting the best

deal or the other way around. You're not getting the best deal. A lot of

people who sell a product undervalue the product

because they're looking, I'll make it as cheap as I can.

I'll sell it as cheap as I can. And then

two years down the line, they're going out of business because they actually

undervalued their product. They never made enough money from that product, even though it was

fantastic. It's about having a balance between

consumer need and seller need.

That's true. And you made some really good points there, Mark. And actually, something I

think worth just considering is, as you just rightly

said, that it's not just about selling your products. You also want to hopefully

get decent reviews for your products because it doesn't matter how many people are

buying it if they don't like it. And also, you don't want people buying your

products and then returning it because they're not happy with it.

So that's the other side of that as well, isn't it? That it's not just

about getting sales. I think as you're saying, it's about getting the right

sales. Yeah, 100%. Thank

you. So I would love to talk a little bit now about

any sort of. I mean, you've given us plenty already, Mark, but any other

tactics or tips you have that small product businesses can start to

implement now that will hopefully make a difference to their.

Kind of. We've covered a few different elements of it, but for

me, it's about really nailing down what

your product is designed to do. So

a lot of people end up in small business because they have an idea. They

go, oh, this is needed in the world. I can do this. Some people just

see something wholesale and think, I can make a few quid selling that. What

I'm going to say isn't really for those people. This is more for people who.

It's their product.

Understand that your product isn't for everybody,

first and foremost, and that's okay. There is

nothing wrong with the fact that your product isn't for everybody,

but it's important that you know who it is for. And as soon as

you understand who your product is for, you'll be able to

change the way you sell it. And it might be that

I work with some people who they think online retail is the

best place by far to sell their product, but it's a product that's really

hard to demonstrate what it does online.

And I've actually worked with a couple of people who've changed from being

retailer to being wholesalers, and their sales have taken

off as a result, because actually what they needed was the product in physical

shops so people could get hands on with that product, they could see

what it did. And as soon as people saw what it did, they bought it,

because it was kind of pretty revolutionary in the industry it

was in. But it's really hard to see what it does

online. And all the video demonstrations out in the world

didn't have the same effect as people getting their hands on that product and trying

it. So they kind of changed tac entirely from

being retailer to wholesaler and their sales

ten times in a year, because once

they even just taking it to retail environments and going, I'd

love for you to stock this product. Those retailers, the minute they saw it.

Yeah, please. How much is it? How many can we have? It

changed the game for them. So understanding where to sell your

product is equally as important as understanding who you're selling it

to. Know your market and know where those customers

are in the market. So there's kind of like just

a few straight off the bat tips for people who design their own

product in. Terms of, can I just ask a few

questions before we move on, mark? Of course, yeah. So what about for

the person listening who says, well, I don't know,

I sell, I'm trying to think of something that's sort of

not say something. I don't know. Let's say earrings as an example, because

obviously there's so many earrings in the world. There's lots of people

selling earrings. Let's imagine you're someone who sells a product like that, where you think,

how do I differentiate my products? Because

obviously they have the benefit of they might complete an

outfit, make you look good, make you feel good. How would

that person, because I think it's a lot easier when you're selling something

that has a really, like, if we take this helps your baby to

sleep. I feel like that in some ways for the right person is

a much easier sell because you've got a small baby, it's not sleeping. You want

a solution, you go and buy one. When you're buying something that's, I don't

know, earrings or clothes might be another example, or perfume. That's

more of a, I don't want to say luxury item, but more of maybe an

impulse purchase or. I'm not articulating

myself well, but hopefully. It'S a fashionable purchase, not a functional purchase.

Yeah, that's the word. It's not functional. It's something that you maybe want rather

than need. How would you go about selling a product that

fits into that category? Interestingly, I take the same approach

with both things. So the classic example that sell

me this pen type thing is I use that

as an example of this exact thing. So sell me these

earrings. It's not about the earrings. It's about how

the earrings make you feel. It's about what you're doing when you're

wearing the earrings. These aren't just

earrings. These are the earrings you'll be wearing

when you get to collect that award that you've been nominated for in

your field, in your industry, for being great at

it. These are the earrings that you will choose to wear to

your child's wedding. These are the earrings that

you want to be wearing the day your fellow proposes to.

It's about the emotional attachment that makes those

earrings special. That's what makes them stand out, is these

aren't just the earrings that you wear. These are the

earrings that you feel. These are the earrings

that genuinely will make you

want to put them on for special occasions.

And if you're selling five pound everyday earrings, okay,

these are your functional earrings that you can wear every day. They're not too blingy,

but they're not too small. They tick that box. But if you're talking about high

end, like more luxury earrings that are an expense

product that needs selling, not just like an impulse purchase. If you're

talking like 150 pound earrings type thing, it's

about the situation in which you will wear

them. That's what you sell them on. That's useful.

Thank you. And also, sorry to ask questions, but how? Well, actually, I'm here to

ask questions. How does brand fit into the sales piece as well? Because

that's something else I think is worth thinking about. So, as I said, if

we stick with the earrings examples, and especially if we look at, say, the mid

range price points, not the really cheap, not the 150 pounds,

but kind of the mid range, there are lots of

businesses in that space, and as there are lots of businesses in lots of spaces.

So how can you use your brand to support you

in the sales process? Because I think for some businesses,

that is what differentiates them from the other products on the market.

You could perhaps buy a pair of silver hoop earrings from various

places. So it might be that actually it's not so much

the product that you're selling, but it's maybe the brand or the

ethos, what they stand for. How does that all tie

in? Weirdly, the exact same way

the classic, this is not just a pie, this is an

M S pie. If you take that mindset and apply

it to your know, this is not just

sales training. This is Endica associate sales training.

It's about how you elevate your brand and all of your marketing and all

of your approach. If that's kind of where

you sit, if you sit in the mid range of the market, all

of your branding should imply that you are at the higher end of the

market. You want to be a semi

aspirational brand in this day and age, a day

of social media, where Instagram is king. It's

so important for people to be

seen to be wearing the right thing.

If you were selling earrings as an example, it's about,

again, even for the mid range, what those earrings

represent. And that's where your brand is

massive. You want your brand to become

a desirable brand. You want your brand to be something people are happy to

talk about. So when somebody says, oh, they're nice earrings, where'd you get them? You

say, oh, I got them from Ears and co. Or whatever

the company is, know, I got them from ears and co. They do absolutely

great work. You should see what they do. They've got a charitable element so that

a pound from every pair goes to charity, whatever it be. Do things that

differentiate your brand and elevate your

brand so that when people talk about the

earrings, they talk about the brand more than the product.

That's the key. And that's what the high end companies are

really good at. So they make you talk about the

brand, not, oh, that's a nice dress. Where'd you get that dress? Oh, it's

Chanel. Did you see that? They also brought out some great bags. And

very quickly people move on from the very thing that they're wearing

to talk about the other things that they have. That's what great brands

do and that's what you want to do. If you're a mid tier brand, you

want to have that kind of aspirational element that people almost want

to brag that they're wearing you and then talk about that.

So again, it's that emotional investment in the brand. So the

emotional investment in the product comes from what you're doing when

you're wearing those earrings. And then it's the

emotional backup that you get from. And not only am I wearing them

while I'm doing that, but I'm wearing ears and co. And

that's what all of your branding and marketing and brand awareness should work

around. That's useful. Thank you. And I'm just

reflecting again, I think it all again comes back to your customer, doesn't it?

And knowing what's important to your customer. So, for example, is your

customer someone who's interested in sustainability? Do they want to shop

with brands that give something back? And

I'm just reflecting that. I think that also would really help to know

what's important to your customer. So those are the things that you talk about,

because that can make the difference between them buying from you and buying somewhere

else. Yeah. You've just got to think that if you're a

mid tier brand, you'll have people who buy your. So,

earrings class example, you'll have people who buy your earrings and wear them every day

as a mid tier brand and their luxury item is the 150 pound

earrings. But if you're like a 50 pound set of

earrings, you will also have people who wear five pound earrings every day and you

are their luxury brand. Like in their

affordability scale, you are the top of their end and you

need to make them feel like that. That's what you have to remember. So you

will hit both markets, so you will have people who wear yours as every

day, but you'll have people who, yours are the special ones and it's

about how you appeal to both of them. So that's where your

marketing might be targeted slightly differently and you can talk

about both elements of that and that might be down to the

designs. So you have your special occasion designs and then you have your everyday

designs and the special occasion designs are the ones you're targeting

at people who would normally buy five pound earrings. Your everyday designs are the people

who would wear your 50 pound earrings every day.

That makes sense. And I think that's a really good advice

as well, to think about this across your product range. So that especially

if you have more than one product, which lots of businesses do,

it's okay if your different products are aimed at different

customers, because I think we can fall into the trap of thinking

that our customer is our customer and it's the one customer

we have in mind when we think about our whole product range. But of

course, that very likely isn't the case for all of

us. So that's actually a really good reminder. Thank you for that.

I mean, you just got to think like people uni the

pizza Oven company. So they sell

massively expensive pizza ovens at the high end of their scale, but they also

sell like a 20 quid pizza stone. So you can stick it in your normal

oven and anybody can make a pizza that's better than it would normally be

using the pizza stone. So they have their. This is

a more luxurious pizza experience for the everyman, and this is

the high end if you want a pizza oven experience for people who are willing

to spend a few hundred pounds. So that's a good

example of your product range, can hit

various customers along the way. That's a really good example.

Thank you. And I think that's actually a really useful thing for people to think

about is that is your customer different for the different products

that you sell? Because quite likely that it is. I mean, even

if you're selling products for babies, let's say you have babies at different stages. So

you might have some products that are aimed at parents of newborns and some that

are aimed at parents who are entering the weaning stage as an example.

And yes, they're not vastly different,

but they are different. Yeah,

100%. Well, thank you. I think

I rudely interrupted you early when you were about to tell us some more of

your tactics for how we can improve our sales. So I'll let you keep going

through them, Mark. Yeah, I mean, it kind of comes back to what we've just

been talking about. It's about thinking about the

functional, practical element of your products as well. So

understanding what

your products do, how they service a requirement

as much as anything. So, for example, if I was to sit here and say

to you, do you have a car? Do

you drive your car every day? Yes. No. Well,

do you drive your car every week? Yes. Okay.

Does your heater in your car annoy you? Because it either doesn't get hot

quick enough or it is too cold or like it's blowing air too much,

that kind of thing? Yes. If I had a product that

could reduce that airflow so it was just slightly less aggressive on your face, would

that be of interest to you? Yes. So the

functional element is what sells that product to you because it's an annoyance that

gets to you daily. I don't know if that's a thing, by the way, if

that isn't a product, somebody should make that product because the speed

at which those fans come on is annoying.

But yes, that element is the

functionality that you need to be able to explain.

And the best way to explain it is by asking questions

again. So if you were selling that online, you almost

want to answer the questions that you would expect

or give the answers to questions, people that you expect. So I've just

asked you those questions there. You almost want that to be the

flow of your product description. Are you tired of getting

hit in the face by the fans in your car when you've got it on

auto climate control mode? That it's just a little bit too aggressive and it's really

annoying? This is how we can solve that. Our product is designed

to solve that annoyance. So again, it's

about how you detail

functionally what your product does, how it serves a need,

because that's what it all comes down to. Everything is about the need.

If you are in any sales game, it's what the need is and how you

identify that, how you confirm that the need is what you

think it is. Because as a salesperson, you can ask questions

until you're blue in the face and go, right, I've got the perfect product for

you. If you haven't confirmed that what you understand the problem

to be is the main problem, you might try

and sell them the wrong thing. So you need to know what the

need is and how your product helps it by confirming that that

is the right need. And then you can sell them the perfect product to help

with their situation based on the functional service that it

delivers. That's really helpful. Thank you. And I think I'll also add

that I think there's also an element of being open to

finding out that the need, perhaps basically open to feedback is what I'm trying to

say. Because I've worked with businesses before who've said to me, oh, I really thought

that my product, I designed my product for this reason, but actually this

group of people are buying it for this reason, and it wasn't quite

what they expect. The customer wasn't quite expected. How the product's been used wasn't quite

how they expected. And I don't know what your take on that is, Mark. I'd

love to know. Mine is that I think that's actually fine as long

as you listen to that and go, okay, so people are using it for this.

Maybe I can lean into that a little bit more when I talk about it.

For example. Yeah. The person

who designed the bike tire patch for when your bike tire gets a puncture, that

wasn't its original purpose. Its original purpose was in maritime, so it was for

boat repair. And then they found that more people were

buying it to repair bike tires than were buying it to repair boats. So they

pivoted how they marketed that product. And suddenly it's a bike tire

patch, not a boat repair patch. And once

they started to change how they marketed it, the sales took

off because it was only people who saw it and thought, oh, I could use

this for my bike. And people who were practical enough to think of the other

use for it, who were using it for that. And the minute they changed their

marketing, that company took off. And

being flexible and being willing to pivot to customer

demand and customer realization of what your product

actually can be used for is incredible.

One of the products I sell a lot is a range of pipe clips.

So if you have pipes

in your walls or anything like that, the clips that hold them to the walls,

I sell a selection of them. The number of people who use those pipe clips

for everything else, oh, I use it to hold

my broom to the wall in my cupboard so it's not falling down. All

those kind of things. People use them for hanging tools in garden sheds.

And the number of people who use these products for

completely opposite things to what they're actually designed for is

huge. But that's great, because that just means I have more

opportunity to. This product isn't just for this

purpose, that's what it was designed for. But you can buy it for this

or this or this. It opens up the market to new opportunities for

me that I can choose to market

to those people. Yeah. And I guess that makes

it a lot easier for you to talk about your product as well, because you

can talk about the different uses. For example, you can talk about, I don't

know, here's some pictures of how our customers are using these

clips or whatever it is. I guess that also opens you up to

just not because I think something that can be hard, particularly when selling your products

online, say social media, is that you don't just want to keep saying the same

thing over and over. Of course there's an element of that because not everyone sees

everything. But I certainly found when I had my product range, I got really

bored of kind of. I felt like I was repeating the same

narrative over and over. And actually, what's your

take on how much of that should we do in versus finding other

angles to talk about? Because I assume that being consistent and

saying the same message over and over to a point isn't a bad

thing, but what's sort of the balance between

repeating the same messages and actually thinking about new ways to talk about your

products? Yeah, I think that's, again, down to

a bit of brand authority and recognition, like product

recognition. Once you've built up a level

of people, your classic

paper red cups that you might have for a party.

I use them when I'm painting edges, when I'm

edging in, painting, when I'm walls, because they're perfect.

You just pour a little bit of paint in there, like the perfect size to

dip your paintbrush in and go edge in your walls. If they sold them as

that, every decorator under the sun would buy them because they're cheap and they're

incredibly helpful, but they don't. But

those paper cups they are known for. If you want a party,

here's the paper cup that you can use.

Recycle materials, et cetera, et cetera. And it's recyclable. All that jazz

people get to know. You need to reach the point where

you have some authority and you are seen as a player

in that industry. Like your earrings, for example.

Earrings are probably not a great example because they're not super functional for other things.

But once you talk about your pipe. Clips, if you like, we can

talk. That's the easier example. There you go. That's a

pipe clip. Hinge pipe clip.

People know that is a pipe. Know you

put your pipe in, lock it down, it holds it in place.

They've been around like donkeys years and

they'll be in everybody's house in the UK.

I don't need to explain to people that that's a pipe clip who use pipe

clips because they know that they will buy them. Like plumbers

and heating installers, they will buy those clips every day.

It's the people. So I don't have to really talk with

consistency about what that does anymore, that sells itself. If people want them,

they know that I sell them, they can get them. The

other avenues, therefore, that I can explore are

if I put it that way up in my garden shed, I can put a

tool in there, lock it up, and it will hold the tool stored more

conveniently out the way. Anything like that. Like, say, in the cupboard holding

a broom. But it's only worth

my time looking at those avenues, because people

already know what its main function is. And people buy it a

lot for its main function. That means that I have the opportunity to

explore other ways of marketing it. If people weren't

buying it for its primary function in quantity, that's where I

should be focusing my efforts. Because not enough people buy it for other reasons to

justify the time of marketing it

solely on that. So again, it's

driven by demand. The demand for this is 95% as a

pipe clip, 5% as other weird and wonderful uses.

So why would I

spend 95% of my time marketing it for the other

uses? Well, I wouldn't, because the demand

isn't massive for it for other uses. But it does mean that I

can put some of my marketing budget towards that. And I can look

at whether I can increase the number of people purchasing it for other reasons. And

it's about understanding that, that it's

known for what it does. And like I say, you could take a lot of

things. Guitar strings, they're known for what they do.

They are good as guitar strings. I have seen people use them

on strimmers. So when they're out strimming their grass, you can use a

guitar. If you run out of plastic for your strimmer

head, but you happen to have a guitar string knocking about, you can use a

guitar string as a strimmer attachment. Same thing with cable ties. People do

that with cable ties. They use them as strimmer attachments. It's

understanding that there might be other uses

for a product, but knowing whether it's worth marketing

it for that use or not, or whether it's just an incidental use, that some

people might buy it for that. And

that's kind of down to you to determine for your product

whether it's worth the time and effort marketing it for the other use or not.

That makes a lot of sense. Thank you. And I was also thinking, as you

were talking, there's also the possibility of sending really

mixed messages. So if you at the outset said, I'm selling this,

and you can use it to attach your pipes, or you can use it for

your garden shed. That thing

about selling to everyone, selling to no one, probably both of those people.

The people looking for it for their pipes, and the people looking for. I don't

know, some way to store their tools, you're probably going to put off both of

them because they're going to go, well, which is it? Last week he said it

was this. This week he said it was that. Who is this actually for? Because

I think when I'm just thinking as a customer now, you kind of

want to know that what you're buying is the thing for

you. And I think if the messages are mixed, whether that's to do with the

product or the brand, and you're not quite sure what something is or what someone

stands for, I think if there's any sort of uncertainty, it

doesn't help with trust, does it, in the brand or in the product.

Yeah. That comes back to that authority that I was talking about. You want to

be an authority in what you talk about what you sell.

So that's a pipe clip. That will always be a pipe clip.

I might put out a social post that says, what other uses do you have

for these pipe clips? We've had customers use them for X, Y and Z, and

that might generate some sales of people who go, oh, that's a good idea, I'll

buy some for that. But the reality is it's a pipe

clip. And at the start of that social media post, I would describe it as

a pipe clip that you can use for other things. So it's still

the main focus and the main reason for that product is

the functional hype clip element of it. The fact that it has

other uses is great, but it is a pipe clip. So again,

that comes back to what I was saying about you need to understand the function

your product serves because that is

what people are looking for. When people go online and they

search for something, they are searching for a product

that does x, Y or z. How do I attach my

pipes to the wall? Well, if I don't come up with that product when they

search, that I'm missing a trick because

that's what that product is designed for. And it's about

thinking about the kind of things that people search or the kind of questions people

ask. You need to be working on that as part of your

marketing approach as well. Thank you. So I think it

makes sense that as well as not trying to target every customer,

you're also not trying to claim your product does everything under the

sun. And I guess your product needs to have one

primary function. And as you say, if it's

used for other things or if people do different things of it, that's kind of

incidental. But I guess it needs to have a primary use or

purpose. Yeah, I mean, classic example, the

baby monitor we've got has a nightlight

function and a little projector function. Both of them are

rubbish. We bought a separate little star

projector thing for our baby's room. That is a million times

better. But it was more. I didn't

buy it to be a projector or to be a nightlight. I bought it to

be a baby monitor. The extra things that came with it.

Okay, well, we'll give them a try. When they were rubbish, I bought a product

that was designed for that purpose. First and foremost, that product is

designed to be a baby monitor. Presumably you saw

enough reviews and evidence that it worked really well as a baby

monitor. Yeah. And that's exactly what sold it to me,

was all the reviews said it's a fantastic. Not a single review

mentioned any of the additional functionality of it.

But every review said it's a fantastic baby monitor. So that's why

we bought it. And like I said, the fact that they decided to

throw in three or four additional features to the product, none of which are

particularly good, doesn't matter, because that isn't why I bought it. And there

are other products that serve that purpose. So again, it's

important to remember that as well. If you have a product that has its main

function and you think, oh, but I could also have it do this and this

and this. Yeah, great. Put those additional features and functions into

your product, but don't lose sight of what its main

function is, and don't drop the quality of the main

function to include extras in the price. You want to

be the best at what the main function is, not average at the main

function, but with some fancy features, I'd actually go as

far. To say for that particular product. I think I'd actually go as far to

say as I would possibly, if that was my product. Remove the extra

features because it sounds like

they're not being used and they're not necessary. Presumably it's more costly to have them.

I'd even go as far to say as I would consider whether it was worth

even having them. And do they devalue the

product on the basis of, you think, well, is it really that good? If

these extra features are kind of poor, how

good is it as a baby? But thankfully, it's a really good baby monitor. It's

just the extras aren't they felt like afterthoughts

and that's how it comes across. That's really interesting. So

what I'm taking from you here is, I think clarity is really key about your

product, your customer, your brand, and just being really clear on who you

are, what your product is, what it does, who it's for, and just having

total clarity because I think that clarity will also give you the confidence coming back

to what we were talking about right at the beginning to actually sell your

product. Yeah. And like I said, there's a big difference between

selling online and selling in person. Selling in person is where the fear

is actually having a physical conversation with somebody to

talk about selling a product. That's where people get scared around

rejection, around fumbling their words, around the money element.

That's something I work on with people every day.

Selling online is much more about how you describe your

product accurately and how you market to your

niche. Because you can have a

conversation with somebody that looks like your ideal client on paper, and through that

conversation you have to verify if they are or not

online. You don't get that luxury. Your website has to be able to do that

for you. So that's where people

that use things like Chat GPT to write product descriptions. Okay, it's a

great tool to use for a start point, but

honestly, if you're not editing it to

smithereens, like, if you're not very good, if you're not good at starting with a

blank piece of paper and writing a product description, it's a good thing to help

you get a start. But if you're not editing it and turning it

into a sales process of a product description, you're not really

using your product description correctly.

Absolutely. Yeah. In this day and age, it's so

easy to pick out lazily written product descriptions that have

just used an AI tool, versus people

who understand their market, understand their niche,

understand what function their product serves and

how they can put that across. Interestingly enough, I

recorded an episode about AI yesterday, which I think will be

out ahead of this one, which we were talking about. Exactly that, how AI

is a starting point, but it's not the

total solution. And I think, again, you've worded it really well there, that if

you know all of these things that we've spoken about and you've got that

clarity, it makes it a lot easier to sell your products,

whether it's online or on social media. And I do think still, by the way,

there is still some fear of selling, even if you sell online, because I

know plenty of businesses who don't want to do posts selling their products, don't want

to email their lists about their products because of that fear of

selling. But I'm assuming that you would say that all of the advice you've given

about selling face to face still applies in that if you know your customer, you

know what your product does, you know how it would help them or benefit them,

there's still a lot to be said for doing that. Yeah. I mean, with a

lot of people, it's set yourself

a goal. This is the way that I always say it. So

if you're just absolutely terrified of writing an email marketing

campaign and actually I'm scared that I'll come

across too salesy, too pushy, set yourself a goal and just go

right. Firstly, the goal is start, send

one, but have a goal of, you're going to send ten

because as you send one and then a fortnight

later you send another one, fortnight later you send another one. They'll get easier to

write, you'll get better at them, but you'll also start to see that

people don't care. People really aren't

offended at you sending them an email. And

people who choose to get offended and go, oh, unsubscribe from your email list, I

didn't want that. That's fine. They weren't your customer to begin with. It's not

a bad thing to get them off of your email list. So

just start and have a goal of doing ten, whether it's

social posts, whether it's emails. Just have a goal that you will

do ten. Because by the time you get to ten, you'll start to see

the benefit of doing it. You might get some extra sales, you'll certainly get some

feedback and it will encourage you to continue doing so and that fear

will start to dissipate. That's really helpful. And I

mean, something else I would say as well is that it can be scary to

think about sending emails, selling your products or post on social

media, but I'm sure that all of us have brought something.

I certainly have. I've brought something from an email that landed in my inbox. I've

brought things that I've seen advertised on social media more than once.

So I think we have to remember that we're customers too, and

we shop that way, so there's no reason to think that other people don't.

Yeah, exactly. Not everybody can afford to do it.

But if you are genuinely just terrified of sending an email

campaign or writing a social post, pay a copywriter to do it, to

write it for you, and then all you've got to do is schedule it.

There are a lot of people out there and I know and I

work with various copywriters and I've got clients that I recommend to

various people that it

just removes the biggest issue that a lot of people have, which

is. But I just don't know if what I'm writing is right. And

that's where a lot of their fear comes from again, the fear of rejection,

that if they take the time to write something,

put their personality into it, put their love, thought and care into it, and the

first time they write it might take them 6 hours to actually craft it how

they want it, and then it doesn't sell anything. They take that

personally. Well, get a copywriter to write your first five

for you, learn how they are wording

things, learn how they're doing it, and then you should be able to emulate that.

But it means that if you don't get any sales from the first five, that's

on them, that's not on you. You don't have to take it so personally.

That can help remove some of the fear as well. Yeah, that's really

good advice. Thank you. And I'm a huge fan of outsourcing where you can,

and I know it's not always possible for everyone. And I also would say that's

also where AI can help. We spoke about product descriptions, but also with your

emails. I'm not saying you should use AI to write your emails for you, but

I don't think there's anything wrong with using it as a starting point just to

get beyond that blank page, because I think that can also be a really big

barrier. I know for me that can be one of my, the biggest things holding

me back is the blank page and having to put those first

words down. And I think any tools you can use, and most of these are

free to just get something on the page that you can go, well, that's not

quite right. I wouldn't word it like that. But it gives you something to work

with as well. So for anyone who finds that's a barrier, I think that could

be worth looking at. Yeah, you've got tools like canva that can

write or give you an email template that you can

then use Chat GPT to create your wording,

that then goes in it, that you then edit it and make it right. Yeah.

The biggest thing, by the way, I'll throw this out there. The biggest problem I

see with most email campaigns is what their call to action is.

People write really well thought, well worded, well crafted emails and

then their call to action is like, find out more,

find out more. I'm sorry, that isn't

generating an emotional investment. It's don't miss

out. Buy now. People are so scared about coming across

as salesy that they actually don't ever ask people to spend

money. Find out more is a

really poor way of getting people to click on that button.

Thank you. That's a really good. What would you, would you just have buy now,

shop? It depends on what it is.

Depending on earrings, for example.

Select your style today.

That's where if you've got like an email campaign that highlights a few different

options, choose your style now and

then. That's what the button is. Because it's not

about. I just want to find out a little bit more about it. It's, oh,

yeah, I want to pick the ones I'm going to buy right now. It's a

call to action. It's not a call to find out, it's a call to action.

It's a call to act. It's a call to make a purchasing decision. And

if your email has been worded correctly, they should be clicking on that link

ready to buy a product. That's really helpful. Thank you.

So I think stronger wording on your call to action buttons is

really key. And I think at the minimum, shop now. Buy

now. But I like your idea of saying something a bit more

creative, but just compels them to, like you say, take action.

So, okay, so, no, find out more. Yeah. Get the emotional

investment back into it. So find out more. If that's what

your call to action button says in your email. Your email hasn't told me enough.

What was the point of your email? If I have to click a button to

find out more information, your email didn't tell me enough.

So if find out more is what your button says,

you really need to work on your email game because

it's just not doing it. That's really helpful. Thank

you. No worries. We weren't meant to be talking about email marketing, but

that's just the sideline. No, this is great, marks. I think

you've given us so many practical tips and

advice, and sales covers all of these areas as well. So as we said earlier,

it's not just about face to face online. It does cover emails and ads and

social media. And as we said before we started recording, we could be here for

hours, but we will attempt to wrap things up now.

So what I would love to know from you, and obviously you've given us a

lot, so this might be a hard question, but what would your

number one piece of sales advice be for a product business.

Understand what

emotional connection people have to your product.

It's easy to think like, oh, I sell kitchen spatulas. There's

no emotional connection to that. There is. This is the spatula

that will serve your kids their favorite meal.

This is the spatula that will whip up

your son or daughter's wedding cake.

Sell the emotional attachment. Why are people going to

be emotionally invested in your product?

Because that's how you generate a following. That's how you generate a brand.

That's how you generate real interest. So

understand mugs.

This is my choice of mug for when I am on calls

because it's plain and quite boring. I have a

whole plethora of really quirky mugs. My favorite mug that I use a lot of

the time says, daddy's mug because I'm a father to a

one year old. Somebody bought that for me when he was a week old. It's

my favorite mug because one of my favorite facts about myself is that I am

now a dad. So the emotional attachment

I have to that mug is tenfold to my boring, plain

mugs that I use for things like podcasting.

So even mugs can have an emotional attachment, an

emotional connection. So whatever your product is, it will

have one no matter what you think. And if you can't think of it,

work with somebody who can help you identify what that emotional attachment

is. That's super helpful. Thank you. And I really like the

fact, as well as whether it's teaching us about the emotional connection to your mug.

You also shared that the other mug, the one you called the pouring

one, also has a purpose, has been really plain and great for when you're on

call. So it still has a purpose. So that's really

good example. Thank you. This mug's emotional attachment to me

is to the point my wife has wanted to throw them out five times, and

I've said no because know landed a lot of big

clients holding this mug. It is important to me.

Well, thank you so much for everything that you've shared today, Mark. We're going to

have links in the show notes to your website and to everywhere

people can find you and. Yeah, thank you so much. No

worries. Thank you, Vicki. Thank you so much for listening.

Right to the end of this episode, do you remember that you can get the

fullback catalog and lots of free resources on my website,

vickyweinberg.com. Please do remember to rate and review this

episode if you've enjoyed it, and also share it with a friend who you think

might find it useful. Thank you again. And see you next week.