The month of April represents an exciting transition for university students, that is as it marks the end of a school year and the beginning of a new one. For many students, the transition could be greater than beginning a new school year, and instead, they begin a new chapter as they graduate and explore their career options. 

Just like the yin and yang, a transition could be both exciting and distressing. As students graduate and ask themselves the famous question of “now what?” we realised it would be a great opportunity to introduce the Career Centre at York University and support those students in making their emotions during the transition lean more towards the exciting part of the binary.  

In this episode our host Susu B. had an amazing time speaking with Jasmine Moron. Jasmine reflected on different misconceptions about career building, the difference between a career and job, who you can reach out to for help and when you should do it. This episode has truly impacted my perception of a career and the career centre in general; now I know they do far beyond telling you to get a job!

Resources

• Faculty of Graduate Studies Individualised Development Plan 
• Division of Advancement - Alumni and Friends https://www.yorku.ca/alumniandfriends/benefit/career-support/ 
• Level- Up series - The Level Up series invites alumni leaders to help new grads navigate life and work after getting their degree, covering subjects like professional networking, career development, and life skills. https://www.yorku.ca/alumniandfriends/level-up-series/ 
• York U Alumni Perks - https://yorku.alumni-perks.com/ 
• The Career Centre- Lounge, counselling, job fairs, job search advising, career peer educators. 
• CareerJoy - Alumni who mention they are York graduates can get discounts of up to 15% on all CareerJoy career coaching services. 
• Career Cycles - Operated by a former York University Career Centre Career Counsellor, Career Cycles offers career counselling and job search programs and services, including resumé and interview support. 

Susu B.: Oh dear. April is here and many of us are wrapping up their school year. But in todays episode, we want to focus on those who are wrapping up their entire degree as they graduate and move forward to the next step of their life. Although this transition is huge and exciting, it could be really overwhelming to think of what you should be doing as your next step as a new graduate. But hey, you are not alone. There are things you can do to ease into this transition, like consulting the Career center at York University about some tips they could give. The point of having a degree is to secure a career anyway, isn't it? In this episode, I had the distinct pleasure of speaking with Jasmine Morton, a career educator at the Career center at your university. In this interview, Jasmine taught me that your time as a student is a part of your career. And as a student at your university, you need to remember that the Career center is not necessarily only for career support, but it is where you consult experts about what your true potential is. I really hope you can join us on this journey. A few mindful minutes can really make a difference. So, let's dive into our conversation with Jasmine.

Susu B.: Jasmine, how are you doing today?

Jasmine: I'm good, thanks. How are you?

Susu B.: I'm doing great. I'm very excited for today's episode. I think the Career center is really something that everyone hears about a lot. But do you really go like you need to actually know more about it. So, before we begin, can you tell me a little bit about your role in the Career Center?

Jasmine: Actually, yeah, absolutely. So, I am a career educator at the Career Centre and so my role specifically is to help people with the practical applications of getting a job. Things like resume, cover letter, LinkedIn, networking, job search, strategy, interview prep, on the job, success. It never ends really. And I'm one half of this team and then the other half of the team we have are amazing career counselors as well and their job is to help with the overall career exploration. So, whenever someone has the question of what I can do with my degree or what would I even like or what options are available to me, we would refer them to the career counselors. So, I have an amazing team. I'm very happy to be part of them.

Susu B.: We're very happy that you guys have an amazing team. I feel like you guys really do it like from A to Z. In my introduction actually I said that the point of having a degree is to secure a career anyway, so I Would really like to know your opinion on this statement.

Jasmine: It's a difficult one because as you probably hear from my accent, I'm not from here. so I'm going to draw a comparison because I'm from the UK and in the UK we have different funding structures. The point in the UK to go do a degree varies. However, when you then come to Canada, which has a very high concentration of international students and domestic students pay a lot more money out of pocket as well and have loans, etc. I do feel like for the most part they are coming to university because they are hoping that more job opportunity is going to be opened up to them. What I would say is that I'd want to separate the definition of career and job. I, I think we can have something that we call, quote unquote, just a job, something that we do to earn money to pay the bills, etc. Of course, but a career is so much wider than that. It takes in so many different facets of your personality, of your desires, your interests, everything that makes you unique as a person. And so, there are going toa be other factors that fulfill you in terms of coming to university for a career. I see it as part of your career story, but it isn't the be all and end all either. I won't go too much into it because I know you'll probably have further questions on it, but I can't give you a direct answer. I think majority of students in Toronto are probably coming to university, yes, to find some sort of job opportunity, but that's not it alone.

Susu B.: Right. And I love that you say that it's part of the journey rather than this is the destination.

Susu B.: Actually, the reason I asked the previous question was as I see many students anxious about the first step after graduation. some students have loans to be repaid, which would suggest getting a job as the best first step. and some wonder if continuing their education, like going for a master's degree, would be a good way to avoid that transition in general. So, what is the recommended first step after graduation, if there are any.

Jasmine: It's never going to be the same for everybody. It's gonna sound cheesy, but I always say you gotta follow heart. You're not going to remember the things that you were trying to do just because you're going to remember the things that brought you fulfillment and the things that brought you joy. Now I don't want to be blind because that's a very privileged perspective to come from. There are people who have dependents, rent to pay, international students who have paid through the nose to come to university domestic students who've also done the same. The best thing to do. If you're unsure, definitely come to the career centre for sure. Start with the career counsellor, go and speak to them. They're all so wonderful and they can help you to explore so many different assets about yourself, as I said earlier, and that will hopefully give you just a little bit clearer of the direction and it's led by you. No one's going to tell you what to do or force you to do a particular option. It's very much led by you. So, it's a non-judgmental opportunity for you to absolutely let all of your wonderful ideas fly and to feel sometimes you might even just go for a bit of encouragement. You know, it's just like I want to do this thing. Is it crazy? And we're like, no, go on, do it. It's amazing. and then afterwards that's when you probably come to the career educators etc and we can help you with the practical applications or you can come to workshops as well on all of those topics. So, start off with that. No person's journey, path, cycle, whatever it is you want to call it, is the same. So, if you're graduating and let's say you see one of your peers and, and they have, I don't know, the internship you thought you wanted or the job or they're going traveling or whatever it is, please, I know what TJ said and done, but do not compare yourself. We're in a world that is extraordinarily unstable when it comes to the labor market. Jobs and different industries require different things. It might not even be that Toronto is the place for your specific industry. You may have to move; you need to explore, and you need to take your time to do that. In terms of should you do a master's degree? Never do a master's degree because you feel like you have to. You should do a master's degree because you want to. And I speak true to this because I dropped out of university. When I left school, I was very much forced to go. Not by my mum, she's wonderful. I was forced to go kind of by the school. They weren't very supportive. And I studied sociology and politics, and I dropped out after the first year, worked a lot, et cetera, and then went back to university and did end up completing a master's degree in career management. Wonderful. Yeah. And I remember sitting down the first day and they were writing down on the board all the different things that we were gonna go over that year and I was like, oh, this is it.

Susu B.: You fell in love.

Jasmine: Yes, this is what I've been looking for. When I, first dropped out of uni, everything made sense. And it wasn't the case of falling into place. It was a case of I actually took the time to explore. So, I did plenty of jobs to earn money. I worked in a gym, I worked in a cat hotel, I was a nanny, I worked in marketing. I did loads of different things. And guess what? I still have what I would class as successful career because I'm doing what I want to do.

Susu B.: Because it is, I think like the idea of having transitional skills or transferable, I think Yeah, course, transferable skills is something that really you could get from any job. Just public speaking is one that you do in many jobs. just speaking to customers. And I'm really glad that I'm speaking to you because sure, as you mentioned, life is really full of choices. You mentioned a lot of them. And just like a new graduate might, be deciding on starting their career or continuing education, undergrads also have a lot of choices to make. For example, should I focus on school to get good grades or focus on volunteering to strengthen my extracurricular, record or find jobs to directly relate to this idea of a career or building for a career? which of these options would you advise students to focus on to become attractive candidates to future employers?

Jasmine: Well, let's start with the fact that you already have a career. You're in your career right now. This is part of it. Your education is part. It's not separate. You're volunteering your education, internships, co-op, the job, at a fast-food restaurant, or working as a receptionist. All the things that you've done are part of your career. So, we'll start with that. I recognize you. I see you. I see the blood, sweat and tears you put into studying. I've been there; I get it. So, I just don't want you to ever feel like you're not doing enough. So, let's just stop there.

Susu B.: I'm very happy because I remember when I first moved to Canada as well, I realized that I'm technically a full-time student, like that's my job. And I was like, oh, you could put that as a job now.

Jasmine: Yeah, you can. Because it is probably more intense than most jobs you'll do in your life. To be honest with you, it gets a bit easier once you get comfortable in what you're doing. And you get into your flow, and you get a little bit more confident in what you're doing because you've practically applied it to things. I would actually say that sometimes, sometimes it can be easier to be in a job than it is at university. So, it can get better. What can they do to stand out? So yes, so starting with that is emphasizing your education. You're spending three, four, however many years studying. So, for a lot of people, they don't really mention much about it in their applications.

They absolutely should. In that time especially. I know if you've come to York University, you would d have been working on projects, you would d have been working on assignments, maybe you did placement, et cetera, during that. These are things that you can absolutely highlight underneath your education section.

Susu B.: I'm recognizing it now, I think my resume, I'm always trying to put like the volunteer experiences or the extra stuff that are extra. But for me, education section is just like, oh, that's a given. Like obviously I'm expected to have education.

Jasmine: Yeah. But not every degree is the same. Right, right. So, they don't know exactly what you've covered unless it's maybe a degree that has a very specific structure like training to be a nurse or a doctor. There are things you have to cover, but for a lot of degrees you pick the university hopefully because you like what they were teaching and what you could learn. And so therefore you should talk about that within your applications. Most people ask me, what do you do? How do you write a resume or a CV if you don't have much experience? And I always say, well one, you do have experience because your experience is your education. So, start off by emphasizing that and then everything else is valuable. Whenever we say experience, we don't just mean paid. You got to remember that it's everything. So yes, if you think your job is unrelated, it's related. As you really rightly mentioned earlier, transferable skills, it's all about keywords. And at the end of the day, I always don't want to admit this, but it's true. I've got to tell you the truth. At the end of the day, job searching, it's a competition. It's a bit of a game and it's a bit of a competition. And it's not always the case that the most qualified candidate is gonna get the job. It's those who are able to exude confidence through their application, those who have paid attention to the skills, the requirements, the values, the mission of that company and have reflected those within their application in any way, shape or form, whether that's through paid or unpaid experience or education. These are the people at the very least who are getting put forward for interview. So, if you're worried because your peer or whatever has done like five internships and you haven't. Okay. It's okay. Yeah, I mean it's okay. Like it's not too late, but yes, okay, that may mean that they've got some more to talk, but you still have stuff to talk about and you've gotta put your hat in the rings. The only way you're gonna fail is if you don't. Someone's gotta say yes at some point.

Susu B.: That's beautiful, Jasmine. I feel like this is just uh, like a TED talk that everyone. I'm not kidding, it's a beautiful one. Like I would listen to this just to remind myself that some self-compassion would be really, really needed. before thinking about career big words like that, I really want to discuss another important emotion which is regret. I think graduates, may have such an emotion as they realize that there are things they could have been involved in but quote unquote, it's too late. Or as they even try to apply for jobs and find it, as you said, too competitive, and maybe they don't have like these five internships to account for that. How can a student who already graduated or is about to graduate navigate the emotion of regret in a rather productive way?

Jasmine: Regret is a really tough emotion. And I think I'll add something personal in here that when I first moved to Toronto about year and a half ago and started here at York University, I regretted leaving home. I was like, what on earth have I done? I had the job I wanted, the friends I wanted the apartment I wanted, you know, I had everything at home, and I came here, had nothing and.

Susu B.: Was like all the immigrants relate.

Jasmine: But then as time went on, the amount I learned about myself was insane. You learn so much about yourself when you can look in hindsight. And so now I genuinely don't regret the fact that I left. It's been tough. I know that journey was tough, but I know that I also learned what I do want from life, what I don't want from life. And that's going to be continuous forever, that learning. But you can look at your degree as that you learned a lot about what you do and what you don't want. It's also definitely not too late. So, as a graduate, you are now an alumni, you're a York U Alum which is really exciting. And that's already a title. That's already a title right there. It's. Well, that you should shout for the rooftop. You did it. You did it. That is amazing. And so, you have access two different alumni events. So, the career center does a little bit, but there's also a specific alumni team that run alumni events, networking, etc. And then in your department, in your faculty, they'll probably have a specific alumni person or team who will run things as well. So, you still have the opportunity to get your foot in the door with these networking opportunities too. And then in terms of the career center, you can use us two years after you graduate.

Susu B.: That's beautiful.

Susu B.: I was like, oh, once I graduate, then goodbye.

Jasmine: No, we do not drop you like a hot potatoes. All right? A career is your whole life. Okay? So, for the next couple of years, we're there to help you. We will support you like you said from A to Z. So even if you're like, you know what, I just don't even know where to start. Just come to us and even if we're the wrong team, we'll try and help you find the right one. Right? So, it is not too late. No need to feel regret because the fact that you did the degree is hard enough and it's. That's tough. So, I'm proud of you already and I hope that you do feel proud of yourself and start taking advantage of the opportunities you have as an alum who is now qualified to do more stuff.

Susu B.: Oh my God, I love the word qualified. I'm qualified. Amazing. Yeah, that's a very positive word. I know this might look like I'm really looking for ahead, beyond finding a job, but how would you deal with finding an occupation that does not necessarily align with your major or interest? Actually, like from where I come from in Egypt we have this saying, it said, um, love what you do until you do what you love. So would you agree with something like that or would you think of it of more of a. You tell me. I don't want to give you suggestions. You tell me, how do you think of a statement like that?

Jasmine: I mean, I'm always open to hearing your thoughts anyway because I learn from, I learn from all of you as much as you come to learn from me. And I genuinely mean that. So yes, I did mention it earlier. It's a case of really emphasizing your transferrable skills. So again, right before I became a careers advisor, I worked in a gym doing Reception in sales. And so, I had to take that experience and twist that into okay, trust me with these teenagers and their careers. and so therefore I thought about, okay, how can these two things link? One of them is I get to assist and support a wide range of different types of people, different ages, different issues, different categories. I work with team members, I work irregular shifts, things like that. So, what you're doing is you're picking out again those transferrable skills. Your degree does not define what you have to do. I would really get into networking if you can. So, like I mentioned before, you can go to events, but if you would rather sort of sit at home and ease into it, a great tool is using LinkedIn. I know some people are a bit terrified about. And just to plug us again, you, you can come to our LinkedIn workshop, or you can have a one-to-one LinkedIn session with us and we can help you with it. But on LinkedIn there's a really cool tool called the alumni tool. And if you go and you search at different jobs and different people, you can find alumni who are just like you and who have been in that position and chat to them and ask for advice.

Susu B.: So, what made you leave a job like the gym? That's really like what I'm thinking of. Like would I stick to the job that I don't really love? Till when? M When is it like enough? When do I leave?

Jasmine: I always say your guts gonna tell you, but the thing is you need to know your guts. Methodology, right? So, I left the gym because by that point finally I'd realized that I really enjoy helping people and also that I'd done so many different varying jobs before that and then helped others to get jobs because they noticed that I was decent at doing it, and so it did click one day it was actually a super rainy day outside and I did an event and I came back fed up and I was like, I can't do this anymore. And then I went, what if I could help other people? So yes, I could say in the moment I realized that. But it wasn't, it was time. It was time to look at and identify separate things I liked and didn't like about my role. Regardless of what degree I'd done, regardless of what I thought I was going to do. So, it will, you will slowly slide into place. But I always say accept help as well from people. There is help, whether it comes from York U, whether it comes from charity or a, government organization. Go and speak to the professionals, they're there to help you. And there is absolutely no shame because everybody got where they are with help. So yeah, that's how I found out. I was very introspective, and I talked to people.

Susu B.: I think it's beautiful that you mentioned the rainy day and like, I can't do it anymore because probably in that particular moment you felt helpless or you felt like maybe some of the anxiety, regret, all like these, like maybe some of their negative emotions. But now you think about it as like, that was actually like the new step in my life. Because many people could think like, this is, oh, that's my downfall. Or like, that's not a good step while you're in it. But after that it's actually a new beginning. When should students reach out to the career center, for example, like first year students who really have basically no idea what they really want to do. Am I still able to come and reach out?

Jasmine: I wish more first year students came to me. I actually do. Our services are available to any York University specific student. That does exclude a couple. But if you're unsure, then come to us. But pretty much every single course within York University can come and use us from the day they're here to two years after they leave. So come anytime. The earlier you come, if you think of it this way, if you're tailoring your resume now, when you come to us again in two, three years’ time, you're just tweaking it. It just takes off the pressure a little bit when you're really busy doing all your assignments, etc. So ye come to us anytime. We've got drop ins 5 days a week virtual at York lanes 202 McLaughlin College. You can come and book an appointment with us on Experience York. You can come to our workshops, which you can book on Experience York. You can come to our careers fairs which happen in winter and fall. There's much there and you can have it at any time. It's open to all of you.

Susu B.: That's, perfect. Then as you mentioned, resume building. There is one more question that I have. There’s lot of research about how your resume might have indicators of your identity, including your gender, ethnicity or even your views. Like if you volunteered for 2SLGBTQIA+ organization, this would view, like show, reveal your view of, um, the community, which could impact whether you get a job or not. So would you advise the students to alter their resume to avoid this prejudice or resist it by keeping those indicators.

Jasmine: That is A really excellent question. And just to add to that, sometimes people also ask me this about their name. Should they westernize their name as well? Because they're concerned, they're not going to get a role with their Born name given name. You gotta be true to yourself because if you ignore those parts of you that align or you're an ally or anything like that, and you go to an organization that doesn't support those, you're gonna be miserable. You're going to be miserable. So yeah, if you are doing 2SLGBTQIA + or working with a specific religion or a belief or something like that, then you've got to hold true to those things and apply for organizations that support those things. So, I would look at whenever you're applying to something, look at their mission, their values, their about, their story, stalk their leaders on LinkedIn and stuff, find out what they stand for and check they align with your values because that's going to be really important for your fulfillment.

Susu B.: I think that's beautiful. I'm glad that you took it from this perspective that you want to end up in an environment that welcomes you. Yeah, so is there anything else you would like to add? Jasmine?

Jasmine: The main thing I want to say is that everything you do, whether you love it, hate it, you're just okay with it. It all contributes to your wider life story. and nothing ever goes the way you expect it to. Let me tell you that right now. Nothing ever goes the way you expect it to. So again, it's gonna sound corny, but you've just got to enjoy it whilst you can. Seriously. And it will come if you really are passionate, if you genuinely, really enjoy and love something, you will find opportunities from it. But just don't tunnel vision because you'll find perhaps opportunities that you didn't expect, just like I have. And I love my job. So, I never would have thought I was going to be a career educator when I was 18 and fresh out of school. And I love it. So, you will find what you love, and you also deserve that too, right?

Susu B.: That's beautiful, Jasmine. Thank you so much. It was an honor having you today.

Jasmine: Thank you so much.

Susu B.: I really want to thank our special guest today, Jasmine Morton, a career educator at the York University Career Center. I really enjoyed our enlightening conversation. Thank you, Jasmine, for being such a valuable resource. If you are a student at York University, you can connect with the career center by visiting the website @careers.yorku.ca. On the website you can find information on networking opportunities, career development, webinars, job postings, and one on one appointments with career educators and counselors. You can also find links to all the services Jasmine mentioned in the show notes for this episode along with more valuable information, tips and resources. Visit our website @go.yorku.ca/wbpodcast. Click on the Episodes link and look for Episode Graduated: Now what?

Susu B.: This episode was co-produced by the well-being and YU Podcast Team. Our podcast coordinator is Prabhleen Luthra, our technical editor is Ethan Muir, and I am your host Susu B. And as usual we well leave you with the quote of the day: You’ll learn so much about yourself when you can look in hindsight.

Thank you for listening.