Today's listener question is from someone who lost their beloved Mom two years ago, and their father has gotten more and more isolated-- because Mom was the social heart of the marriage. What can you do when you're worried about an isolated parent, but you live hundreds of miles away? If you've ever had your heart break not only from your own loss, but from watching your loved one go through it in their own way, we've got some support for you in this episode of Baggage Check.

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Dr. Andrea Bonior: One excruciating thing about losing someone you love is that you have to watch others you love go through that loss as well. What happens when you are rebuilding your life and getting help, and another loved one is struggling?

Today we are answering a question from a listener who is concerned about his widowed father. After the loss of the listeners mother the father just doesn’t seem to be taking care of himself in the day-to-day-- even though doesn’t seem overtly depressed. Most concerning, he’s extremely isolated socially. But our listener is an only child who lives 400 miles away. If you’ve ever wondered how to help a loved one from afar, or when you’re going through your own pain, or if you’ve ever been worried about the isolation of an older parent, you’ll want to tune in to today’s baggage check.

Welcome, I’m Dr. Andrea Bonior and this is baggage check mental health and advice with new episodes every Tuesday and Friday. Baggage check is not a show about luggage or travel. Incidentally, it is also not a show about proper skee ball technique.

Okay, on to today’s show. We’re welcoming a listener who is struggling with the level of isolation they see in their father after the loss of their mother. Thanks so much to the listener who volunteered their voice. As always, we are very appreciative because we are always looking for voices! Most people prefer to email rather than send a voice memo. Does that have to do with the fact that people tend to fear public speaking more than they fear a gruesome death due to a thousand blood-sucking man-o-wars? Probably. And just like most people prefer to email rather than send a voice memo, I am assuming that most people would rather hear a listener’s voice rather than mine reading the letters. So we’ll keep chugging along looking for volunteers! For now, let’s listen, um, to the listener!

Listener: My mother passed away two years ago of cancer. She and I were very close, and it’s a loss that I know I will carry with me for the rest of my life. I have been in therapy, have a very supportive partner, and I think am coming to terms with the loss and doing okay. Who I really worry about is my father. He lives a few states away, so I don’t see him often, and we don’t really have a phone relationship—he was always the “Glad you’re doing well, but let me go get your Mom on the phone” type of person. On the surface I don’t have any signs that he is having a terrible time or anything but I feel like he is very much lost just in taking care of himself without my Mom. She did everything domestic, I mean absolutely everything related to homemaking and food and cooking and shopping and just the daily ins and outs of life and he always let her. I tease him sometimes about what he is eating, and whether he has learned to boil water yet but honestly it’s not far from being that dire. I think he lives like a 19 year-old frat boy. But that’s not even my main concern. My biggest concern is that I think he is very, very isolated. My mother was like a cruise director in terms of their social life—she was great, she was so social and planned everything. And honestly I don’t really know if he had many friends of his own, ever. His friends were mainly the husbands of her friends, and some coworkers that he probably hasn’t kept up with now that he is retired, which he did when she got cancer. He is only 65 and was sort of a work-a-holic before retirement so he never really even developed that many hobbies, except maybe golf that he would do for professional networking. I ask him sometimes how he spends his days and it sounds like he mainly watches TV. I asked him if he talks to anyone throughout the day and he occasionally talks to his brother—though I can only imagine those conversations since my uncle is not much of a talker either. I think he talks to his neighbor every once in a while. But it really makes me sad, that his life has gotten so small since the loss of my Mom. I don’t know how to help him; I’m an only child 400 miles away.

Dr. Andrea Bonior: I’m so sorry. Seriously, my condolences on the loss of your beloved Mom, to such a monster of a disease, and now my heart hurts for you and your Dad, and your concern and love and care and worries—they all show through so much in your letter. And it’s a different kind of grief, this grief and stress about your father-- the grief that comes from the worry that someone you love is shrinking, that their life is starting to diminish, that darkness is settling. And that they aren’t able to be living their lives in the way they used to.

So my first question is: how would he assess his situation? Has his isolation just sort of taken hold, and it is the way it is, and he might not actively acknowledge being in distress about it? Loneliness can be like that. It’s like it just settles in; it’s not that all of a sudden on a Thursday afternoon while watching a documentary on shark feeding you feel empty. It’s that connections decrease, a wall starts to build, you reach out a little less, people reach out to you a little less, you share less of your life and so you don’t have that cycle of following up with people. And it seeps in. So I’d be really curious to hear what he has to say in terms of his isolation. Does he notice it? Does he care about it? Is he in denial about it? Might he have less isolation than you think he does? Like maybe he actually is chatting with people, is keeping up with people, is occasionally having guests?

Other considerations-- Might he views this a temporary break that he needs during his mourning of your mother? Might he feel it’s a bit of taking care of himself to not have social demands? Might he feel that this is how he naturally is, more introverted, and he’s returning a bit to that, in the absence of your Mom? Because that’s a crucial question here: whether or not he’s in distress about this, whether or not he views it as a problem. And speaking of whether we view things as a problem, it’s important to recognize that isolation and loneliness are not always 100% the same thing.

There are people who are isolated but are not necessarily lonely. It’s not common, but it happens. And there are people who are lonely but not isolated – that is actually very very common. People who seem to have a lot of connections on the surface and definitely don’t suffer from a lack of friendships, but feel disconnected with every cell of their being. Who feel depressed. In those cases, those folks will feel alone even in a room full of people that they trust.

But again, we don’t know any of this in terms of your father. We can’t make any assumptions, because we also don’t know how much companionship he really needs. Now I’m a huge believer in the importance of social support. I teach about it, I give talks on it, I’ve submerged myself in the research on it-- social support is a fundamentally important aspect of well-being, both physical well-being and emotional well-being. Good social relationships help your cardiac health, they keep your immune system in good working order, they can lower your blood pressure. And for older folks especially, it’s very important for cognitive well-being too. It’s often overlooked that isolation increases the risk of dementia, and isolation greatly increases the rate of cognitive decline. And unfortunately that’s a vicious cycle, because as someone gets older and it’s starting to experience cognitive deterioration, they naturally start to socialize less and get fewer visits from people. So anyone listening who might be thinking, well it’s not such a big deal if this listener’s Dad doesn’t hang out with people, this isn’t junior high where he needs buddies in the lunch room, I would say that MIGHT be true, but then again it may very well be a huge deal, even just for his health. So we need to really look at the overall health risk of not having interactions over the course of the day and what that might do to his brain into his body.

But how much social interaction does he really need? It really could vary-- maybe he needs a lot less than your mom did. When we talk about all those risks of loneliness, it’s really about feeling satisfied by the amount of social interaction that you have. It’s not a certain number of friends, or a certain number of hours spent socializing. We’re kind of like plants in that sense—our need for social support is like plants’ needs for sun. And virtually all plants need some element of sunlight, but some need a ton of sunlight and some need just a bit of sunlight. Those are the ones I like. Because I can shove them in a random corner and not immediately be deemed a plant murderer. The snake plant? Very very forgiving. The ZZ plant? Heck yeah.

But anyway, people are the same way. Some people need 10 best friends and lots of raucous parties. Some people need one close confidant. The important part is whether his needs are being met, so there is a conversation that has to happen in order for you to figure that out. And it can be very casual, like “Dad, I was thinking about how different your day to day life is since the loss of Mom. And obviously there are so many ways it’s different, but I wonder about the level of interaction you have with the world, and how that feels to you. Because I know Mom used to be responsible for so much of your social life. Do you miss that part of your life? Do you think about wanting to be more ****? Because I want to listen, and see where you are with all that.”

So then, if you jointly identify a gap in what he’s getting versus what he needs, then you can help him brainstorm how to fill it. What’s important to him? What are his interests? What are his values? What kind of things would appeal to him – what about some element of volunteer work, which could be not only interesting in a way to meet new people but also give them a sense of purpose? I know, people are tired of hearing about volunteer work, but we actually see a pretty big mood boost from it in the data.

How tech savvy is he? Are there message boards or listservs that he could join about golf or some TV show he likes or other aspects of his interests? Is there a neighborhood listserv that has meet ups? Or what about sites like meetup.com? Now of course we don’t want the emphasis on technology to backfire. Widows and older people are just as prone to tech addiction as younger folks, once they have dipped their feet into the waters. So you don’t want him somehow getting more isolated by scrolling scrolling scrolling and having fewer opportunities to interact out there in the world, but there are still ways that he might be able to connect online that resonate with him and open up entirely new worlds for him to be exposed to.

Is he a curious person? Cause we’re obviously talking about social connection, but one thing that becomes important also is mental activity and intellectual engagement. He doesn’t have to start quoting John Paul Sartre – I always wonder if I say that right – and I even narrated an audiobook where that was literally the first phrase said, and it was my own fault since I wrote it – so this is like exposure therapy for me saying it again—anyway it’s not like he suddenly has to go and get a PhD, but if there are things that he enjoys learning about, or habits like Wordle or sudoku or ways of getting novelty, trying new foods new hobbies fixing stuff around the house – although it sounds like the his frat lifestyle isn’t necessarily allowing for that-- but that is very important to even if it doesn’t directly involve social connection.

I’m also wondering: can you talk to some of the old friends that he used to have? Or some of your mom’s old friends? It’s not like you’re doing an intervention on him behind his back, but if you have a relationship with any of them, maybe you shoot them a little note on social media, just mention casually that you sometimes worry about the fact he doesn’t get the amount of interaction that he used to. It could be that he gives off such vibes of self-sufficiency that people kind of stay away. And it’s true that people tend to disappear after loss cause they’re worried about saying the wrong thing – which, you know, the disappearance ironically IS the wrong thing, so it’s often this awful paradox where people screw up because they’re worried about screwing up – we’ll have to have an episode on that sometime. It’s also very common that if your parents hung out with a bunch of other couples, that those couples don’t include him anymore because they think it would make him feel worse being the sole widower there. And it could be that your dad indeed WOULD feel awkward in those interactions. Honestly your dad might’ve felt awkward in those interactions even when your mom was alive – again we don’t really know his baseline level of introversion here. So we don’t automatically want to assume that he’s supposed to just keep having the life he used to with your mom. But, on the other hand, if he really enjoyed hanging out with those guys while your mom was alive, and now even misses out on all the husband-y stuff because his wife has passed away, that’s an extra layer of tragedy.

I’m just gonna rapid-fire some more ideas at you here, some things to think through and explore. He’s very young in terms of the senior world, but might there be some senior services in his area that he could get connected with, that might have various activities that could potentially be of interest to him? Is there a community center or county or city recreation programs that he could get involved with, maybe some that are particularly geared toward seniors, or classes, or gym memberships, or golfing groups toward seniors that he might be interested in? And I’m curious how much he talks about this loss, this great loss that the two of you suffered. Might being in a grief group actually be helpful for him?

And I know some of you were thinking, let’s see if she can get through this episode without mentioning some sort of mental health treatment – well those of you who bet against it go ahead and collect your cash. Now I’m not saying he absolutely needs a grief support group, but I am saying that I have seen those groups change lives in terms of the social connection piece alone. It’s obviously been a little while since the loss, so he is not super early in the mourning process, so his needs might not be as acute for the actual emotional support of group therapy, but a support group in terms of connecting with other people who have lost partners could be really helpful. Even if people are very different from him, there can be a pretty profound connection with others who really “get it” in terms of loss. And honestly, he might just meet some buddies. I have seen it happen time and again! I mean yeah it’s unlikely that he’ll find the perfect Grieving Golfers group, but again I have seen grief group save lives. In fact I would venture to say that group therapy or support groups for grief are some of the most powerful types of treatment that there are. And giving men in particular a forum to express their emotions and be vulnerable with each other can be so important, because our society doesn’t always allow for that. We had an episode on that recently with Dr. Harold Woody Neighbors, talking about older men, and masculinity, and how it makes it hard for them to get the same cultural acceptance in terms of sharing emotional distress with each other.

So, back to more questions. Did he ever have a place of worship—does he have a faith that he might want to explore through attending religious services of some sort, and getting to reap the social connection benefits of doing so? No matter how you feel about religion, we do have some data that suggests that things like potlucks are pretty great for us.

The elephant in the room here is dating. If he starts getting reconnected with some of his old friends or some of your mom’s old friends, their way of showing care for him may be to try to get him out into the dating field again, whether with someone they know through their garden club or maybe with them themselves. I think it’s important that you go into this being honest with yourself about how you would feel about that? And how do you think he would feel about that? There are no right answers here, but the more you communicate about it, the less there will be weirdness if it does start to happen.

And as for the frat-boy aspect, beyond just the social isolation, there might be some really actionable tangible things you can do here. And to be clear, we mean no disrespect toward any frat boys—some of them might be keeping their frat houses looking like the cover of House Beautiful, I don’t know. But anyway, interventions on that front can be something you can make tangible progress on. Like maybe gifting him an Instant Pot with some super simple recipes. No I don’t get any affiliate sales from them, but they can be a godsend for people who want to be able to start cooking but are intimidated or, people who, shall we say, want to want to cook, but really don’t want to cook.

I think it could be really good for you to start planning your next visit with a bit of clarity about some things that you can get him set up with, whether it be helping him with some technology stuff, or visiting a community center with him, or stocking his fridge together, or showing him how to make a recipe or two. Maybe you could make some joint goals for him that would be motivating—really small, specific goals, like finding a place to work out, or compiling a list of some potential volunteer opportunities, or learning three new dinners to cook. But don’t make him feel like he’s a “project.” This should be framed as an opportunity to find some joy, or adventure, or fun, rather than you are “fixing” him.

And you can continue this even while you are long distance, and it has the added bonus of strengthening your relationship, by finding something fun for the two of you. Maybe you’re not gonna have deep heart to hearts over the phone about the state of your feelings, but maybe you can get into a new TV show together, or challenge each other at Wordle each morning, or play some other online game together, or try a new hobby together. Something low-key and low pressure, something that allows a natural avenue for connection rather than the stilted phone call. Maybe it will even inspire him to do something similar with his brother.

And I know I’m sort of joking here about how he’s not going to want to talk about his feelings, but that’s another thing-- maybe you can actually normalize talking about feelings and encourage him to open up. Creating a space for it, by talking about your own feelings and how you may sometimes experience your own grief, or when you might feel the most vulnerable about the loss of your mom. Because I know we’ve been focusing on him, but you’re grieving too, and that’s something that you sadly have in common, and that might actually strengthen your connection over time if you’re both willing to be vulnerable.

And because almost everyone likes to feel useful, and it can help increase our sense of self-efficacy and purpose, think about whether there’s something you could use his help with. He’s obviously had a really esteemed professional career – are there questions that you might have for him about your own career? Are there a little things you might need his advice on?

Pets are also a great form of companionship, and also an interesting way of potentially meeting other people. Dog parks are wonderful for human recreation as well as pet recreation. And even if he doesn’t meet a new BFF at a dog park, there’s something really important about even one-off connections, just people coming together for a moment in time, where you’re simply talking about, I don’t know, how your dog once ate an entire stick of butter-- but it’s just a way of being human together and having that brief moment of connectivity. Now of course, this only applies if he actually has an interest in a pet in the capacity truly to commit to taking care of it.

Anyway, I feel like this was more of a smorgasbord of ideas than one unified cohesive piece of advice. But I think that also speaks to the fact that little interventions here can make a big difference-- and that there is no one size that fits all for people in his situation. Isolation is so common, but can be so devastating. It makes many tough things even worse – like grief, like health challenges, like the logistics of caring for a big house. But you’re definitely not alone in this. And of course the whole point of this is for him to know that he’s not either. Good luck trying some of these things. And please feel free to let us know how things turn out. And if any listeners out there have been through this? Please feel free to reach out on our Instagram page or shoot us an email. You can find that link at baggagecheckpodcast.com.