In this episode, Sophie Jackson speaks with Shunji Kiyokawa, CFO at Valeo Japan. They explore Shunji's journey from his early years through to his current role, look at the key decisions and experiences that shaped his path, as well as his insights on managing an international career, working across cultures and languages, and navigating opportunities and challenges along the way.

Hello and welcome to Ask A CFO, the podcast series that shines a light on the different paths taken to become Chief Financial Officer, whilst also exploring the personal stories of those that have made the journey.

I'm Sophie Jackson, and in today's episode, I'm delighted to be joined by Shunji Kiyokawa, CFO at Valeo Japan. Together, we explore his journey from his early years through to his current role, look at the key decisions and experiences that shaped his path, as well as his insights on managing an international career, working across cultures and languages, and navigating opportunities and challenges along the way.

Hello, Sophie.

Hi, how are you doing?

Good, Yourself.

Yeah, very good. So first of all, can I ask you just to introduce yourself and tell me your job?

Okay, so hello everyone. My name is Shunji. I currently work in Valeo, Japan.

In Valeo, I have two hats. I started my career in Valeo five years ago. I joined as a brain division, Japan ASEAN Finance Director looking after Japan, Thailand and Malaysia.

And then in 2005, last year, around March, I started my second role, so I have a double hat. Where I also took over the role of the corporate function for Japan, Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia, looking after the shared service centers, covering customs, tax, treasury, accounting and so on.

And it's quite unique in a way, because in Valeo, we divide the finance function into where the division, where I'm in brain, you do the controlling. We build budgets, we build the mid-term plan, and we use the numbers to make the business better. And the shared service center, the corporate function governs the common function of tax, customs, treasury and so on.

So my role, in a way, I control from sales to operating margin, and my other role gives me exposure in respect to whatever below operating margin in respect to tax and so on, I'm also able to get involved.

In terms of my day-to-day, if I divide it into three areas, it can be during closing. So when I need to close a month, it will typically be with my team, meeting them on a daily basis. Understanding what's behind the numbers, the landing of the numbers, and making sure that we're forecasting the numbers where we want to land and to meet the target.

After the closing, we typically use the numbers because we're controllers to tag along with the business to shed light in respect to problematic areas of our business. So we could have loss-making products where I'll need to tag along with sales to consider any repricing. I might work with the plant to see whether there's any areas where we can get any efficiency gains. I could be working with purchasing in respect to make versus buy, and so on and so forth.

And during the whole month, there's dozens of people working for me now that I need to make sure that the people are happy. So my job in a way is to remove their bottlenecks, understand their issue, so that they can concentrate on the accounting or the controlling work that they will need to do.

So I would say my day-to-day is these three areas.

Amazing. And then tell me a little bit about your early life. So where did you grow up? How did those early experiences before you started in the workplace shape you?

It's a long story. Overall, I think I've been lucky, very lucky in the way that I was brought up, thanks to my parents. My dad worked for a Japanese OEM, so whenever they built a factory overseas, our family would be shipped there. So I was born in the States, you know, where my dad was working.

And my family were all Japanese, so mom, two older brothers, the ages were quite apart. We stayed six years in the States and then back to Japan, six to ten. From ten to 15, we were in the UK in Derby for the same reason, my dad's work.

And during my UK times, I took the decision. I went to the local school for one year. And then thereafter, I decided to join a boarding school in the UK. So I was surrounded by English kids and kids from Hong Kong, from Africa, and so on. So it was in the UK back in the 1990s, but surrounded by very many nationalities when I was young.

And I came back to Japan when I was 15, from 15 to 22 in Japan, graduated a local university with a bachelor's in business.

And when I was 22, I couldn't find a job in Japan. So, I decided that I'll work abroad and there's this organisation called the AIESEC, which provides international foreign internship exchange.

And I decided to work in PwC in Estonia, in the Baltics. And I've been around, I've been, you know, exposed to different cultures, different nationalities.

You know, how did that shape me? I think there's two or three points.

One, thanks to my family, I was able to get this experience. And because I was surrounded by my two brothers, my parents, I think I'm a Japanese. My origin is Japanese. I think, my colleagues don't say so, but I believe I'm a Japanese. I think in the way that Japanese think. So that's the origin that I have.

And secondly, I think my parents, especially my mother, she was a very quick thinker, very smart, very impatient, extremely direct for a Japanese. She had a, I wouldn't say a foul mouth, but she was very, very direct. And I think I inherited part of that. And during my career and so on, surrounded by many multinationals, I think it has helped me, you know, go through that experience.

And number three, as explained, born in the States and living in the UK in a boarding school, spending time 24/7 with international kids has also given me some characteristics of accepting differences, adapting as well.

So overall, I think I have, because of that, a broader or a lower boundary compared to, I think, other people. And the ability to accept differences.

And I don't consider it as a risk, but a lot of people tell me that I take risks, but going to Estonia was considered as a risk for some of my colleagues. My risk level is very low, or I take challenges without thinking that it's risks. So I think, you know, how I was born and raised and so on has shaped me in such a way.

Amazing. And then you mentioned sort of briefly there the beginnings of your career journey. When you look back to what's taking you to where you are now at Vallejo, what do you notice as some of the key steps along that way?

I think I've been fortunate, again, with how I was brought up. And I also believe I was very fortunate in respect my career leading up to Valeo. And I think I can divide it in three phases.

And you will see that I had a lot of tailwind from regulatory changes and also the people I met during that time.

So the first phase is where I started my career in Estonia with PwC doing external audit or supporting external audit.

And my second internship was in Australia, in Adelaide, working for what was known as Solar Optical. It was an American glass manufacturing company. And I started doing Sarbanes–Oxley, SOX, at the time. And it was around 2004, 2005, which was the first compliance year for Sarbanes–Oxley.

So obviously, being a new regulation, the SOX auditors or internal auditors were high in demand at the time. So when I finished my internship in Adelaide, it gave me a position in Toyota in Melbourne as a SOX auditor. And I did, I think, one year of SOX. And then the second year I was doing dealership audit, running around 200 dealerships nationally to recharge, you know, to get back incentives and fleet discounts that we provided.

And I think it was in my first year or end of the first year doing dealership audit that the company was looking for someone who can do transfer pricing international tax. They had some issues with the tax authorities and they needed someone because transfer pricing is cross-border. You need to have someone who can speak Japanese and speak English. And I happened to be able to do that. So I put my hand up and that was a moment where I made the career change from an internal auditor to a tax person. So that's basically my first phase of my career.

And the second phase is transfer pricing was also very high in demand at that time. You can search in Google and it will give you a lot of pharmaceutical, Japanese trading houses, automotive that had a lot of transfer pricing issues, disputes.

And also transfer pricing, it's an interesting subject where economics, understanding of the business, tax, accounting and legal kind of intertwine into one subject, which is for me, transfer pricing. And thanks to this and the position was in high demand in the market. So I was able to, for the first time, go back to Japan to work for a big four as a transfer pricing manager.

And it also gave me a ticket three years down the line to go back to Europe in Luxembourg to work for another big four as a transfer pricing director.

So again, you start to get the feeling of how fortunate I have been in respect to getting a tailwind on the regulations. So that was my second part.

And the third part was TP has given me a ticket to what I do today. So when I was in Luxembourg, one of my clients wanted to establish a headquarter in Switzerland.

And that company after establishing the company in Switzerland, they asked me to quit transfer pricing and join as their VP of Finance for one of their automotive segments.

And it's very rare when you're doing such niche transfer pricing that you give an opportunity to change your competence again, roll into an audit to tax, then tax to finance.

So I took the opportunity, I moved to Switzerland, I worked two or three years in that company just before COVID, trying to turn around a business that was not really working very well financially and operationally. And after two or three years, one, I was not mature enough as a professional. And number two, a business can't be just turned around by one person.

So I decided that I wanted to go back to Japan. My kids were old enough. They learned the language. So in 2019, I came back to Japan to work for a pharmaceutical.

Why pharmaceutical? Because unlike automotive, they make money. So, you know, I changed my job to pharmaceutical then.

But pharmaceutical, when I opened the box, it was a little bit different from my experience in that there's not really much to control as a finance person in a pharmaceutical. Because the selling price of a drug is regulated to make sure that the drugs are available at a reasonable price to the customers.

And also the how you make a drug, your manufacturing cost is also heavily regulated because you can't use any kind of compounds to make a drug. It's heavily regulated on how many times you can mix a drug, what kind of coating you're going to make on a drug.

So when your sales and your biggest cost, which is your material cost, and the labour is regulated, there's not much really a controller can do.

So I started to miss automotive. And in 2021, I joined Valeo, back to automotive again. So that was my third phase.

I started as a Controller in Valeo And then last year, I started doing the corporate function, taking over the corporate function for, which includes internal audit, treasury, tax and customs, which I had my previous experience in. So it's kind of everything linking together into my current position.

To sum it up, very fortunate in respect to the regulatory tailwind, in respect to SOX and TP, which gave me access to changing the country, changing my profession. And giving me exposure to other countries and so on, which kind of landed me today in Valeo, being able to utilise what I've learned so far in my career.

Excellent. And then when you look back over the duration of your career, would you say there's a particular mindset or strategy that you've had consistently that you can identify?

I wouldn't say strategy because a lot of it comes to luck on who you meet and what kind of opportunities are given. But in terms of mindset, I think there's two parts, my personal life, my family, and as a professional.

In terms of personal life, family, again, I use this word many, many times, but I've been fortunate. And I feel that whatever I received, I need to give it back to someone. And typically you give it back to your kids. You want your kids to be exposed in the same environment that you had been exposed because you believe that will give you the return when they get older.

So, I've been around, but one of the things that fuelled me, for example, coming back from Australia to Japan and Japan to Luxembourg was my kids to be able to give them the language capabilities because in Japan a lot of people only speak Japanese and me being able to speak Japanese and English has brought me where I am today.

And also, the other part which I mentioned was them being able to be exposed in a foreign country with different people would also give them the adaptability to change and being able to accept differences. So that has kind of fuelled all this change in my career and changing countries and so on.

And professionally, I still believe what I have experienced during my compliance days. So Sarbanes–Oxley and TP, I really enjoyed and it's part of me now and I utilise it every day. But compliance isn't really what makes a company better. It's a given, you know, it's a must. You need to comply with things and that's first priority.

But more during my career, while I worked, I started to get the sense of, I want to be part of the business. I want to be a gear within the business to make a change of the business, to bring the business to a better state, be a catalyst of change and steer it in the right direction. And I think this part has also kind of steered me out from the internal audit and from TP and move into what I do as a controller today to try and tag along with the business, with other functions, with other departments to try and make the business better.

And then you've mentioned several times there, I think, for your journey, but also now for the next generation in your family, the significance of having experience in different countries, different cultures.

You've worked in many different environments, Estonia, Australia, Japan, across Europe. What are some of the biggest challenges that you've encountered when you work in different cultures?

So challenges. Professionally, at one point in time on that day, I think I had bad days and good days. But most of what I remember is family related.

Like, again, taking kid to an unknown country is a lot of challenge for them and for wife and I. Making sure they blend in to the local school, making sure they learn languages that we can't even teach them. So I remember a lot about, the family issues.

Professionally, it's funny, because I don't remember having any kind of challenges in other countries. My challenge was, I think the one that I can at least remember was in Japan when I moved back in 2019 working for this pharmaceutical, that it was the first time for me to work for a Japanese pharmaceutical.

They hired me because they were at that point owned by an Indian pharmaceutical group. So they wanted someone when they were recruiting me who had automotive background. So being cost conscious and being able to bring that, cost mindset into the land of pharmaceutical.

And also being the bridge between India and Japan, thanks to my language capabilities. But three months after I joined the company, the Indian company basically divested the Japanese company to a Japanese fund. So it turned Japanese. So one of the key reasons why they hired me was gone.

And as explained before, in pharma, your sales and your cost of goods sold is basically heavily regulated. So not much you can do as a controller.

And this company, because it was owned by an Indian company, it was basically doing what the Indian company told them to do. And they didn't have the ability to make decision on its own.

So me, you know, coming in fresh back to Japan and wanting to make change, because that's the reason why they hired me. I was confronted with people who didn't want any change and just wanted to have their day-to-day as usual.

So, trying to adapt to those change, but also trying to make a difference to make the company better was one thing that I can remember as a challenge.

But other than that, I think for me, the takeaway is that the challenge and surprises actually come out from nowhere. And for me, it was Japan, where it was completely unexpected because I thought I was a Japanese.

But it gave me the lesson that you need to continue to adapt, be it if you're a Japanese. And while you are limited in what you can do, you need to try to take away whatever you can.

And during that time, my Swiss company was the first company in which I started to do finance. And I had never done myself standard costing, inventory management and so on. And this company had allowed me to do that hands-on, you know, from using SAP directly and formulating the report and analysis myself.

And another important part is I only stayed there for two years, but once you think you've done what you can, and what you can give, you sometimes need to make up your mind and have the courage to also let it go and then move on to your next step.

Absolutely. And then if we think about the different people that have shaped who you are, so you mentioned your mother and her energy, but can you tell me a bit about any figures or mentors throughout your career and the impact that they had on you?

Yes, again, I was very lucky in terms of my bosses as well. Not everyone.

There were a few that I would say they were unique, but there were a few people back in the time in Australia where when I changed from internal audit to tax, my boss basically was very happy that I wanted to change.

And when I moved back to Japan to join Big Four, my transfer pricing boss was also encouraging me to do that while he needed to bridge some of the gaps that I was doing at the time.

My boss in Valeo was also, a guy that puts the spotlight on you, not on himself, and gives all the credit.

The partner that sent me from a big four in Luxembourg to the Swiss company, you know, when I changed my profession from transfer pricing to finance, he found me that position and he again encouraged to make a switch to a broader position.

And there was one guy during the Swiss company, while, it was extremely tough to work in that company, one of the VP industrial person, his son was my age and he really treated me, he was a British guy, he really treated me like his son, you know, when I was having a bad day, he would take me out for dinner and so on and so forth.

So there was many, many people that kind of were inspirational, that was a good coach, good mentor.

And if I sum it up on what I learned from them was, enjoy work. A lot of the people who I talked about enjoy what they did, so enjoy work. They put their team or people above you.

So they didn't really care about their interests, but they did best for what they thought this person should deserve. They treated their people like their family. They protected their people.

They think outside of the box. So they're very, very creative people.

And the concept of paying forward. So do something good and you'll get it in return someday or what goes around comes around.

I think these people have taught me and it also teaches me to make sure I do the same to my people.

But if I was to give one person, it would be a person that I would never want to work with. It was a nightmare working with. He was a CEO of a company, but he had a background as a CFO. So he knew operations and he knew about his numbers. And working with him, frankly, it was a nightmare. He would make sure I feel that I'm replaceable. He would throw papers at me, and he made sure that I felt that I wasn't good enough.

And at the time, it was extremely tough. But in hindsight, looking back now that I'm a little bit more experienced than before, he was a very good CFO. I'm not sure whether he was a good CEO, but he was a very good CFO.

And the things that whether he was trying to teach me, I kind of understand it now. It's only been the last two or three years where I kind of start to reflect and say, okay, this is what he meant.

And now I have the tools and the people and my own knowledge to use that to the benefit of my company.

And it also kind of in reverse, also taught me how to treat my people or treat my colleagues and so on because you want to be treated in a way that you want to be treated. So it's someone I still remember and I still appreciate that time is giving me so much benefit today as a professional.

I find that so interesting because I've never thought about my first boss was an absolute living nightmare, but also quite amazing. And I've never thought about the fact that actually both sides of that coin taught me a lot.

I really went into managing people with a real distinct appreciation for how much you can affect them when you have that kind of environment where you're like at 1am with people screaming at you and stuff.

So I've never thought of that, shaped you in a positive way as well. Thank you for that.

Now, what I wanted us to talk about as well was when we think about being a CFO and what makes you successful, so you just touched on that, the positive traits of the tyrannical boss that you had.

What qualities do you think are most important when you think about what it means to be a successful CFO?

I think there's a technical side and there's a behavioural side to that question.

In terms of the technical side, with AI upcoming, a lot of the bookkeeping reporting functions, which can easily be automated, will likely be replaced. So as a CFO, you need to focus on what brings the most value. And I personally believe that's controlling.

So using the numbers that's being booked and reported, to identify issues of the company, to tag along with sales, purchasing quality with the plant, to shed light on that issue, working together to make the numbers or make the business company better. So on the technical side, I think it's controlling.

On the behavioural side, I think it's agility, anticipation, ability to take decisions. Automotive, as you see in the news and so on, it's a very kind of uncertain environment, geopolitically, and also with the emergence of the Chinese OEMs and so on, that the environment is in a way unpredictable. And, you need to have the agility to adapt to those changes.

And while I say unpredictable, you need to anticipate what could potentially be coming and prepare yourself and the team to take action. And then while being uncertain, it's better to take some decision than not to take any decision. So the ability to take decisions.

So I'll say in terms of behavioural aspect, agility, anticipation and the ability to take decisions in an uncertain environment, I think is very, very important.

The third part, which I think is, again, a behavioural people side of things, is basically your people. I was a consultant. I was at a staff lab at one point. Now I have, I don't know, a dozen of people reporting into me and there's a limit on what I can do on my own.

So to make sure that you kind of orchestrate these people by coaching them, guiding them, mentoring them and training them to make sure it's not just you, but the team work as one to make sure things get done and to make sure that you one day can depart from this position feeling that you have a success already.

Fabulous. And then you've been in your current role now at Valeo for I think it's around five years. Tell me what that's been like, because that's the longest stint you've had. So tell me what's special about working at this company?

Yeah, you're right. In July, in two months, I would be finishing my five years and going into an unknown territory in my sixth year, because I've been hopping jobs six or seven times.

I've been, again, I've been around. I was a consultant, so I've seen many clients in different industries and different companies. I've been around in terms of different countries, so I think I can paint why I kind of am in Valeo today.

And I think there's five things which I like about Valeo is as a controller, number one is Valeo provides you with a good controlling environment where the systems and tools that we have is pretty much standardised across the globe.

So I can ship a person from Malaysia to my team and the person can be starting to work on day one. So that allows us to do the bookkeeping and the reporting really quickly. That allows more time to be focused on controlling, to use numbers to make the business better.

And because why the company invests so heavily on the finance function is because they feel that finance is a business partner that makes the company better. So that's number two, where there's a culture in Valeo that finance has a certain weight.

You know if I go to my boss today or to my colleagues to say, I have this issue and the numbers are here, can we make it better? They would actually take action. Whereas in my previous company, in pharmaceutical, unfortunately, such was not the case.

So there's a weight and the culture in Valeo as a controller where you can make a difference.

And number three, it's a French company, and I'm in the far East, in a very little country, Japan. But unlike other foreign capital companies, they don't tell you what to do. Yes, there's things that they tell you what to do in respect to this system we're going to standardise, so you need to implement. But in respect to how we want to steer the business in Japan, or in ASEAN.

They are actually interested in what our opinion is. And if we can prove through that data and a story that the way that we want to go, which may not be directly the way that the company wants to go, they're ready to listen. And there are several cases where the group, the headquarter has given us the green light to proceed.

So they want to listen. I don't feel like I'm working for a French company. I feel that I'm working for Valeo Japan and we have some freedom to take a decision which we think is right.

And number four is connected to that. They want to have local people in each country.

So my predecessor was a French person, but they hired me being a Japanese. And I, over the last five years, I start to see more and more Japanese people joining the company. And I think if things can be done local by the local people, I think it's better.

So that approach as well, you feel respected, know, that it's a French company, but they respect the local people. So that's number four.

And number five, and I think this is the most important, unlike my previous experience, you know, having to face nightmares every day, the people I work with is genuinely good. I don't know why. It could be the tone from the top that, good people hire good people.

But I think it's the first time in my career where I don't really have anyone where I need to finger point to say I don't like this person. You know, the people who I work with on a day-to-day basis, including France and including other countries and including my team in Japan, they're all good people.

I think these are, I think it was four or five reasons that I would say still keeping me in Valeo. And I have, for the first time, never thought about changing jobs. So it's kind of new for me as well.

And overall, when I joined five years ago, the company, because it was during COVID, the company's financial situation was not in a good state. And it took us approximately two to three years to turn that business around. And we're now profitable. We get new businesses that we never had before.

And the company makes me feel that I'm one of the gears within the company that is making a difference to steer the business in the right direction. And at least from my experience over my career, I have never felt that, I'm that gear within a company that is making a difference.

And because of the fact that we were able to make a turnaround in the first two or three years, and then in addition to that, bring new businesses into Japan, it's now becoming very, very hard for me to say goodbye. And I'm not really thinking of it.

And I still feel that there's more to do to make sure Japan and ASEAN keeps growing in accordance with the company's strategy.

Excellent. And then finally, if you think about our audience, which is those at any stage of their career in finance, inspired by hearing stories from CFOs. What's one piece of advice you'd like to leave them all with?

I've been lucky and fortunate. So I don't think I'm in a place to give advice, but I could leave a message.

For the first time in my career, and I tell a lot of people, especially my team, I wake up every day and I want to go to work. And I have never felt such a way.

And looking back, you know, I had the tough times that I explained before. During those tough times or when I was changing jobs, I would have never thought that I will be placed in this kind of situation where I wake up every day and I want to go to work. I always had this kind of fear that it will be this three to four year cycle that I'll be changing jobs until I reach 60.

So looking back, I think it's luck. You know, how, who are your parents? How are you being raised? In what kind of environment? But I think one of the reasons why I feel in such a way is because I took all my decisions to move countries, move companies. I was never told to do so. I don't let other people take decision on behalf.

And each step of my career, I think I worked hard. I gave it my fullest. And that kind of moulded me or shaped me in a certain way that I kind of appreciate today. And I wake up and I say, I want to go to work.

So my message is, you know, I assume there's a lot of people out there in the market that has the same feeling, you know, would this be my last job or do I need to change again?

But the message will be that I think there's a place where everyone will fit somewhere. For some, it could be after two or three years. For some, for me, it took me, I don't know, 15, 16, 17 years. But there is a place for everyone, I think, where I hope that they will wake up and say they want to go to work.

But there's also a part, I think, where one would need to kind of shape yourself to fit into that position. So it's not a given. I think you have your role to play to take decisions in every experience to do your fullest. And at one point, both will match and then hopefully one day you'll wake up and say, I want to go to work.

Amazing. Well, thank you so much, Shunji. It's been such a pleasure to get to know you and to hear your story.

Thank you for having me.

A very big thank you again to Shunji for joining us. I absolutely loved hearing his story, and I'm grateful to him for sharing it with us all.

If you enjoyed this episode, please do subscribe and share, and stay tuned for the next Ask A CFO episode as we continue to bring you the journeys of current and former CFOs across the world.