Shownotes
Quality relationships are one of the most powerful — and overlooked — drivers of long-term health. In this Goalchella episode, we explore the softer side of wellness with Dr. Lisa, breaking down the science of how relationships impact our physical, emotional, and psychological well-being across the lifespan.
We discuss research showing how supportive friendships, family bonds, and romantic relationships influence everything from immune function to stress resilience. Dr. Lisa shares insights from her work on romantic relationships and marriage, including how happy couples manage conflict, support one another effectively, and strengthen their connection during the good times — not just the hard ones.
This episode dives into concepts like capitalization, gratitude, emotional capital, and sacrifice, explaining why how and why we show up for our partners matters just as much as what we do. We also unpack how everyday stressors quietly erode relationship quality, why daily hassles can be more damaging than major life events, and how couples can buffer stress and even grow stronger through adversity.
We close with an important conversation about friendship — why diverse social networks protect our health, how friendship dynamics differ for men and women, and why maintaining friendships alongside romantic relationships matters more than we think.
If your 2026 goals include deeper connection, this episode will reshape how you think about relationships as a core pillar of wellness.
Links/Research Articles:
https://sites.utexas.edu/realproject/
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Transcripts
If you've ever wondered how some
relationships stay strong through
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life's ups and downs, and why
others sometimes don't, you're
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going to love our guest today.
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She's a researcher and expert on marriage
and family relationships, a professor of
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human development and family sciences at
the University of Texas at Austin, and the
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principal investigator of the relationship
experiences across the lifespan lab.
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Her research focuses on identifying
the factors that promote stable, happy
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marriages across many life stages.
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And how external stressors work,
pressure, finances, caretaking, major life
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changes, all affect relationship dynamics
and real people, not just theories.
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In today's episode, we're breaking
down what relationship science
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really tells us about connection,
conflict, and resilience.
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So you can start applying
it to your own partnerships.
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Dr.
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Lisa Neff.
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Welcome to Wellness Exists the pod.
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Kelsy: As someone who has been in the
physical health and wellness space
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for so long, I've recently become
more and more interested on what I
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call the softer side of wellness.
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And your research falls under
that softer side umbrella for me.
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So how do.
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Things like relationships
and quality relationships
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actually affect our health and
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Lisa: wellness.
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Absolutely.
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So research shows that our social
relationships, both friends,
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romantic, all those social network
members have profound impacts on
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both our mental and physical health.
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So I'll start with our
emotional wellbeing.
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Research shows that if you ask
people how satisfied you are in life.
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The way people answer that question
is by figuring out how satisfied
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are they in their relationships.
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Relationships matter more than work than
hobbies, than all those other things.
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It is the strongest predictor
of life satisfaction.
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And interestingly, when you look at adult
relationships, generally the romantic
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relationship sort of is on the pedestal.
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It is one of the most
important relationships that
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people have in adulthood.
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Be it married or cohabiting,
whatever that looks like.
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And research has shown that marital
satisfaction and its association
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with life satisfaction has gotten
stronger over the past 40 years.
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Meaning that our happiness in our
marriage matters more to our wellbeing
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today than it did even 40 years ago.
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But it doesn't just influence
our mental health, it influences
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our physical health as well.
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So there's a lot of research on
all the ways our relationships
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can both benefit us.
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And get under the skin
and cause problems for us.
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to just give a couple of broad examples,
a few years ago some researchers did a
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meta-analysis and all that is, is they
aggregated findings from a whole bunch of
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different studies that had been conducted
looking at predictors of mortality.
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And they were looking at all the
things that have been studied.
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So they were looking at, you know,
smoking behaviors and physical inactivity
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and air pollution, you know, all
these different factors we know can
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have health consequences for people.
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And they were also looking
at social relationships.
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And what they found in this massive
summary of the literature was
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that the quality of our social
relationships mattered more.
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Then all the other factors they studied.
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So people who had at least adequate
social relationships were 50% more
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likely to still be alive at the end of
the study compared to people who didn't.
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And the strength of that effect of
social relationships on wellbeing was
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stronger than things like physical
activity, inactivity and obesity,
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and those things that we know matter.
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So this suggests that our health.
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Our relationships matter
a lot for our health.
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However, we have to make sure that
those relationships are good, right?
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We know that not all relationships
are the same and a toxic relationship
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or a really hostile relationship
can really have some important
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health consequences for us as well.
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So in a great set of studies that
was done, uh, by Janice Kolt Glaser
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at Ohio State a number of years ago.
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They did work where they basically
took this device, you could think of
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it as like the size of a smartphone,
and you put it on the forearm of people
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and it created eight little blisters.
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So they actually wounded participants.
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They then had these participants
who were couples talk about
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important issues in their marriage.
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They coded those conversations for
the quality of that communication.
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How well were couples
talking about their problems?
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Were they using constructive
positive forms of communication
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or were they using more hostile
critical forms of communication?
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And what they found was that the
wounds, those blisters, they created
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the wounds of the people who used
more hostile communication with
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their partner healed 40% slower.
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Then the wounds of the people who
had more constructive forms of
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communication, which suggests the
quality of our relationship matters.
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It's not just being in a relationship,
but being in a high quality relationship
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that can have beneficial effects for
our immune functioning and being in a
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negative relationship can have harmful
effects on our immune functioning
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Kelsy: I feel like my jaw's on the floor.
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That's so cool.
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Especially relating the.
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Again, like I say, the softer side and
that's definitely not scientific at all
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or anything, but I pictured as a softer
side relating back to the physical, I
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am curious when they did that study,
were the couples together speaking
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was one partner hearing the hostile.
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Communication from the other?
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Or was it, were they
individually talking about it?
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Lisa: No, they were having a
conversation with each other.
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Wow.
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So they were set up in a room,
sort of like we're in now.
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Mm-hmm.
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And they were told to think of an
important issue in their relationship
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and talk about it with each other.
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And usually the instructions are with the
goal of trying to work Twitter resolution.
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And so then the researchers generally
leave the couple alone and videotape them
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as they communicate through that issue.
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So you can see what their communication
dynamics are in real time.
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Kelsy: So piggybacking off of that
a little bit, what has the research
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shown are some of the qualities
or characteristics that underlie
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strong romantic relationships?
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Lisa: There are so many, right?
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I teach an entire course at
this, at ut I could spend a
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whole semester talking about it.
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But, you know, piggybacking off
those ideas of good communication.
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The way that couples resolve conflicts
and the way that couples support each
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other are really important predictors.
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You know, being able to navigate
those situations so, conflict.
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Is inevitable.
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No relationship is immune to conflict.
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Unless you have paired off with a perfect
clone of yourself, there's going to be a
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moment where you and your partner disagree
or you want different things, and you're
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gonna have to work through that, process.
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And so the ways that we approach
conflict are really important.
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You know, the couples who struggle
more have problems diffusing
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negativity when it arises.
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Obviously we want to try to focus on
more constructive ways of talking about
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our perspective and, you know, the
problem and the way it's affecting us
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when we're talking with our partner.
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But if, we all have.
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Less than perfect moments.
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Even me as a relationships researcher
don't always phrase things in the
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most, you know, constructive way.
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And so in those moments of
negativity, happy couples are
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really good at diffusing them.
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So if one person engages in a negative
or hostile speaking turn, the other
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partner doesn't reciprocate it, right?
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They bring the tone down and try
to, um, minimize that negativity.
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Unhappy couples.
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It's like ping pong.
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They go back and forth in that negativity,
and once they get in a cycle of
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negativity, they can't break that cycle.
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It just becomes a cycle
of negative reciprocity.
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So, you know, trying to
avoid those cycles is one.
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there's also been some
interesting research on.
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Learning how to pick your
battles, but also not suppressing
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your emotions too much.
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There's sort of, a fine line in terms of
dealing with problems in the relationship.
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Research shows that sometimes avoiding
confronting your partner on something
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has more harmful consequences for you
in terms of rumination and wellbeing
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than just having the argument itself
you don't want to just continually
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stuff down your feelings and suppress
your feelings talking to your partner.
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And again, trying to use a
more constructive approach
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is going to be more helpful.
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But also, making sure that you're
choosing the right time and the right
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moment to bring those issues up.
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And there's research that
shows that as we get older.
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People get better at that.
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They get better at picking their battles.
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They get better at knowing when to engage
and when to maybe make sure you're in
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the right frame of mind to approach
that conversation in a constructive way.
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That's
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Kelsy: something I
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Lisa: had to
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Kelsy: learn about myself in my
ripe old marriage of seven years.
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But it's, it's that constant
balance of yeah, how much is too
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much where I'm not suppressing
and how much is, you know, like.
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Uh, petty or like you said, not
being able to choose your battles
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and just bringing everything up.
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So it's this constant sort of balance
and it's good to know that throughout
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time you start to pick up on those
sorts of things with your partner.
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Absolutely.
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You also mentioned support too.
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Yes.
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So
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Lisa: talk a little bit about that.
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So, if you think about traditional wedding
vows, you know, what are they about?
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Like, you're my person
for better or for worse.
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You are my support, foundation
and support's a really important
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part of a relationship.
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However, being a good support
provider is one of the hardest
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things to do in a relationship.
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If you really break it down and think
about what it takes to be a good support
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provider, first you have to notice
when your partner needs support and.
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That's not always easy to do.
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'cause sometimes we're not always good
about directly asking for what we need.
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You know, we're more likely to give
those indirect cues, and hope that our
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partner picks up that, oh, I wanted
you to unload the dishwasher, right?
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So, to be a good support provider,
you have to be in tune and know
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that your partner wants support.
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Then you have to decide are you gonna
give it, and what kind of support
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are you gonna give in that moment?
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Then once you decide on what support
you're gonna give, you have to
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deliver that support in a way that is
perceived as helpful by your partner.
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And that last part is key, right?
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How many times have people
had the best of intentions?
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They offered their partner support,
but it was not received as such
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because there are so many ways.
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That support can go wrong, right?
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You could possibly misunderstand
the kind of support your
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partner wants in that moment.
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the stereotypical one is,
I wanted emotional support.
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I wanted you to listen, and instead
you gave me practical support
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and tried to fix the problem.
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So you have to know what kind
of support is, matching, the
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recipient's desires in that moment.
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And there's a lot of research
showing that another reason.
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even well-intended support can misfire
is that when people get support, it
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can often make them feel incompetent
or lower, their self-worth because
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they're aware that they're not able
to handle their own problems, and
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so they need help from someone else.
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So interestingly, some research
has shown that a way to get around
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that where you can offer support
in a way that won't be perceived
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as, oh, you think I can't handle.
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My own issues is to give what's
called invisible support.
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And I always say that the word
invisible is a bit of a misnomer
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'cause it's not totally invisible.
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I would say it's more
like indirect support.
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So there's research showing that sometimes
the best support is the support that maybe
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isn't clocked as support by the recipient.
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So you know, if you're thinking about
practical support, if you have a partner.
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Who maybe has to give a big speech,
let's say, and they're really
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nervous preparing for the speech.
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They're putting a lot of, effort into it.
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One thing you could do is maybe take care
of some of the chores that they normally
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do, but don't make a big deal of it.
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Just do the dishes and
don't call attention to it.
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So that's why, I mean,
it's more like indirect.
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You're providing the support, but not
making a big deal of, look what I'm doing
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at this moment for emotional support.
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Interestingly.
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The way invisible support works
there is, let's say your partner
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gives that speech or is, you know,
nervous about giving that speech.
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You know, we often wanna say
things like, you're great, you are
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wonderful, and pump them up that way.
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But sometimes it can be more
effective if you're like.
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Remember the last time you gave a
speech, I heard other audience members
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say that you were so good at it.
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Like that third party overhearing
where it's more indirect.
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It's not coming from me, but
it's like other people have said,
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you're really great at this.
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So that more indirect way.
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And when you give that invisible
support, sometimes you can, you make
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the recipient feel better without making
them conscious of their own limitations.
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Kelsy: It's interesting hearing you
break down all of this and then thinking
247
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back to, you know, different things
that my husband and I have been through
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or talking through and different
ways that I've tried to support him
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and have tried to learn and tweak.
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And it's interesting to hear the, the
different components of it all from
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your mindset and how you even research
it and how it has been researched.
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Because I'm resonating so much.
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I'm like yes, I struggle with
that, or I understand what
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you're talking about with that.
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Mm-hmm.
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It's cool to be able to relate to that.
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Knowing that's what the science is
saying and what it's providing, but
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also having these real life examples
in the back of my head of like,
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that's another approach I could try
next time this happens or something.
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So it's really, really cool.
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I know a lot of romantic relationships and
like you said, relationships in general.
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We experience highs and lows and mm-hmm.
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Of course we'd all like to stay in that,
that high, those ups part of the equation.
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So what are some ways that we can.
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Work on those relationships In
those high moments to help the
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relationship once we might experience
some of those lower moments?
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00:14:26,681 --> 00:14:30,431
Lisa: There's a lot of things
that people can do to keep what
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00:14:30,431 --> 00:14:31,811
is already a good relationship.
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Strong.
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One building off that
idea of social support.
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There's research suggesting that it's
important not only to support your
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partner when things go wrong, but
it's really important to support your
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00:14:44,341 --> 00:14:49,051
partner when things go right, and that
is a process known as capitalization.
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So when you have good moments,
let's say your partner comes home
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and they just got promoted at work.
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Research shows that when we experience
those joyful moments, we get a boost
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in our mood and wellbeing, but that
boost is even bigger when we share
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that joy with someone else and they
can experience that joy with us.
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Where social creatures and being
able to share our accomplishments
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positive moments with someone else
makes that moment even sweeter for us.
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one way.
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To be a good support provider.
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is being there for your partner when
things are going well, when they
284
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have good moments, be enthusiastic.
285
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Be equally joyful with them.
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00:15:29,741 --> 00:15:31,031
it's not that hard, right?
287
00:15:31,031 --> 00:15:33,971
Your partner comes home, they got
a promotion, celebrate with them.
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That's fantastic.
289
00:15:35,051 --> 00:15:35,981
That's wonderful.
290
00:15:35,981 --> 00:15:38,111
Like you, you work so hard for this.
291
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I'm so proud of you.
292
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As opposed to, and this
does happen sometimes saying
293
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something like, that's great.
294
00:15:43,191 --> 00:15:44,871
That's gonna be a lot more work.
295
00:15:44,871 --> 00:15:46,161
Are you sure you can handle it?
296
00:15:46,371 --> 00:15:46,611
Right?
297
00:15:46,611 --> 00:15:49,011
That kind of response is
going to dampen the joy.
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00:15:49,311 --> 00:15:52,401
You wanna be a good support
provider in the good moments
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00:15:52,401 --> 00:15:53,751
as well as the bad moments.
300
00:15:53,841 --> 00:15:58,761
And interestingly, research shows,
you know, we can ask people how
301
00:15:58,761 --> 00:16:00,591
supportive do you think your partner is?
302
00:16:01,101 --> 00:16:03,191
And you know, people
have an answer to that.
303
00:16:03,511 --> 00:16:06,901
when people are sort of reflecting
on instances to decide, do I
304
00:16:06,901 --> 00:16:08,341
think my partner is supportive?
305
00:16:08,851 --> 00:16:11,941
Often they are thinking of, has my
partner been there for me in the
306
00:16:11,941 --> 00:16:15,811
good times more than has my partner
helped me out when I was struggling?
307
00:16:16,171 --> 00:16:19,351
It's those capitalization
moments that really matter.
308
00:16:19,351 --> 00:16:25,471
So making sure to build on those
moments, be your partner's champion
309
00:16:25,531 --> 00:16:29,431
during the good moments, and then even
if you mess up a bit during the bad
310
00:16:29,431 --> 00:16:32,731
moments and don't give the right side of
support, you get a little bit of a pass.
311
00:16:32,761 --> 00:16:34,711
You're still a supportive
partner in there,
312
00:16:35,411 --> 00:16:39,711
Another thing we can do, to help
keep the relationship strong.
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00:16:40,211 --> 00:16:43,841
Is build something known
as emotional capital.
314
00:16:44,261 --> 00:16:49,421
So when I talk about emotional capital,
you can think about relationships as
315
00:16:49,421 --> 00:16:54,371
having an emotional piggy bank, and
every time you and your partner share
316
00:16:54,371 --> 00:16:57,281
a small positive moment, this does
not have to be anything grandiose.
317
00:16:57,281 --> 00:17:01,031
It could just be, you know, having
a pleasant meal together, having
318
00:17:01,066 --> 00:17:05,251
a, meaningful conversation, doing
a leisure activity together.
319
00:17:05,256 --> 00:17:09,306
You know Whatever it may be, those
small positive moments that can seem
320
00:17:09,516 --> 00:17:12,576
really simple on the surface add up.
321
00:17:12,726 --> 00:17:17,675
Every one of those is like a deposit
in your emotional piggy bank, and that
322
00:17:17,675 --> 00:17:19,476
is the building of emotional capital.
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00:17:19,896 --> 00:17:24,846
And it's really important to do that
because research shows that the more
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00:17:24,846 --> 00:17:29,976
emotional capital you have built up in
your piggy bank, the less conflict and
325
00:17:29,976 --> 00:17:34,206
problems are harmful to your relationship
when they eventually arise, and they will.
326
00:17:34,831 --> 00:17:38,821
You'll come up at some point, but
people who have accumulated more
327
00:17:38,821 --> 00:17:43,901
emotional capital, who have invested
more in spending that quality time
328
00:17:43,901 --> 00:17:48,641
with their partner as the relationship
goes on when those conflicts arise.
329
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They're just not as troublesome.
330
00:17:50,681 --> 00:17:52,211
They're able to get through it better.
331
00:17:52,211 --> 00:17:54,731
It doesn't affect their overall
relationship happiness to the
332
00:17:54,731 --> 00:17:58,391
same degree as people who have
less emotional capital built up.
333
00:17:58,661 --> 00:18:02,291
So that is really important for keeping
the relationship strong over time.
334
00:18:02,791 --> 00:18:07,111
And just to add on that I will say,
when I'm talking about emotional
335
00:18:07,111 --> 00:18:10,051
capital, as I mentioned, it does
not have to be anything grandiose.
336
00:18:10,101 --> 00:18:13,461
it can just be simple routine
moments of positivity.
337
00:18:13,961 --> 00:18:18,946
But there is also research of as people
are in a relationship longer and longer.
338
00:18:19,446 --> 00:18:23,386
Boredom can set in, the routine
can maybe become a little too much,
339
00:18:23,386 --> 00:18:27,256
and you have to invest a little
bit more to keep the spark alive.
340
00:18:27,916 --> 00:18:31,966
And so investing in those
positive moments still important.
341
00:18:32,176 --> 00:18:36,646
But if you see yourself getting
in a, a rut where it starts
342
00:18:36,646 --> 00:18:37,726
to feel a little, you know.
343
00:18:37,981 --> 00:18:38,551
Boring.
344
00:18:38,551 --> 00:18:40,621
Like you, you're, you're sort
of losing the connection.
345
00:18:40,921 --> 00:18:45,061
Research shows that engaging in
novel activities together, so
346
00:18:45,061 --> 00:18:50,251
things that neither of you have
done together can actually really
347
00:18:50,281 --> 00:18:51,811
reinvigorate the relationship.
348
00:18:51,811 --> 00:18:52,981
So I don't know if.
349
00:18:53,186 --> 00:18:56,846
maybe you go take a ballroom dancing
class or whatever it is, like some
350
00:18:56,846 --> 00:18:59,366
activity that is new to both of you.
351
00:18:59,606 --> 00:19:04,676
Engaging in those novel activities can
sort of reignite some of that spark.
352
00:19:04,946 --> 00:19:08,636
And this has been shown not only
in terms of just general feelings
353
00:19:08,636 --> 00:19:12,686
of happiness in the relationship,
but also sexual intimacy and sexual
354
00:19:12,686 --> 00:19:14,006
satisfaction in the relationship.
355
00:19:14,006 --> 00:19:16,916
It can bring a new energy to the
relationship and help people,
356
00:19:16,916 --> 00:19:19,036
keep that energy more alive.
357
00:19:19,751 --> 00:19:24,191
In fact, research has shown that that
can be true even if just one person
358
00:19:24,401 --> 00:19:26,681
goes out and engages in novel activity.
359
00:19:26,681 --> 00:19:30,971
So if I'm in a relationship and maybe
I decide I'm gonna, I don't know, go
360
00:19:30,971 --> 00:19:35,261
take a language class or something
new to challenge myself, even though
361
00:19:35,261 --> 00:19:38,441
I'm not doing it with my partner,
I'm bringing home sort of a new
362
00:19:38,441 --> 00:19:42,551
excitement, new energy that carries
over, and my partner will also be
363
00:19:42,551 --> 00:19:44,141
happier in the relationship as well.
364
00:19:44,211 --> 00:19:48,501
Kelsy: I have this concept from a physical
component of, I call it the longevity
365
00:19:48,501 --> 00:19:52,341
fund, and I think of the longevity
fund as the hydration, the mindfulness,
366
00:19:52,341 --> 00:19:53,811
the exercise, little deposits.
367
00:19:53,811 --> 00:19:53,901
Mm-hmm.
368
00:19:54,171 --> 00:19:56,421
Exactly you're saying with
the emotional component.
369
00:19:56,601 --> 00:20:00,351
So it's funny to see this mirrored
and be like, oh my gosh, I understand
370
00:20:00,351 --> 00:20:02,151
this component because yes, I.
371
00:20:02,511 --> 00:20:05,241
I know whenever I have had an
injury or my patients have had an
372
00:20:05,241 --> 00:20:08,091
injury and they have to dip into
what I call this longevity fund.
373
00:20:08,091 --> 00:20:08,181
Mm-hmm.
374
00:20:08,421 --> 00:20:09,801
More from a physical component.
375
00:20:10,281 --> 00:20:13,461
They heal better because of the
muscle mass they've built, the bone
376
00:20:13,461 --> 00:20:16,701
marral density, all of the resiliency
factors that they've built physically.
377
00:20:16,851 --> 00:20:21,951
But it's very, very cool to hear your
side of it being more of the emotional
378
00:20:21,951 --> 00:20:26,481
capital side and that we can actually do
the same thing with our relationships.
379
00:20:26,531 --> 00:20:29,381
Coming from the, again,
physical therapy background.
380
00:20:29,381 --> 00:20:33,671
I know a lot of my patients also
have a partner who either has.
381
00:20:33,826 --> 00:20:36,946
Memory issues or different things
like that so it's very, very cool to
382
00:20:36,946 --> 00:20:40,536
me from more of that side of things
to hear that even if one partner.
383
00:20:41,036 --> 00:20:42,626
Participates in a novel activity
384
00:20:42,706 --> 00:20:46,906
That can help strengthen this relationship
once people start to lose possibly their
385
00:20:47,206 --> 00:20:50,446
physical capabilities and they're no
longer able to quilt or sow or whatever,
386
00:20:50,446 --> 00:20:54,526
or their mental capacity and their
capabilities and their memory especially.
387
00:20:54,526 --> 00:20:57,491
So for me, that's a little bit of a
heartwarming thing to think about.
388
00:20:57,951 --> 00:21:01,891
Not only now for younger marriages
and younger relationships, but
389
00:21:01,921 --> 00:21:05,171
also thinking more towards my
grandparents' ages and knowing that,
390
00:21:05,501 --> 00:21:06,551
they are struggling with physical.
391
00:21:07,051 --> 00:21:09,891
Challenges and memory challenges
and all of that, but knowing
392
00:21:09,891 --> 00:21:14,241
that you can contribute to that
relationship, even if just one
393
00:21:14,241 --> 00:21:16,521
person is doing that novel activity.
394
00:21:16,704 --> 00:21:21,024
Lisa: Another way you can strengthen
an already healthy relationship
395
00:21:21,024 --> 00:21:24,724
or keep it strong over time is
to make sure throughout your
396
00:21:24,724 --> 00:21:28,144
relationship, and this sort of
goes along the lines of being sure.
397
00:21:28,219 --> 00:21:32,299
To be a good supportive partner,
but also to express gratitude to
398
00:21:32,299 --> 00:21:35,559
one another in the relationship for,
doing little things for each other.
399
00:21:35,559 --> 00:21:39,279
Maybe sometimes sacrificing, you know, I
wanted this for dinner, but we'll do it
400
00:21:39,669 --> 00:21:40,929
this way 'cause that's what you wanted.
401
00:21:41,139 --> 00:21:44,499
But always showing that
appreciation and that gratitude
402
00:21:44,499 --> 00:21:45,729
for the little things you do.
403
00:21:45,729 --> 00:21:50,069
And research has shown that expressing
gratitude Toward your partner is sort of
404
00:21:50,069 --> 00:21:51,779
like a booster shot to the relationship.
405
00:21:51,829 --> 00:21:57,329
it gives you a little boost and in some
research, by, a woman named Yin Park
406
00:21:57,329 --> 00:21:59,189
that I think is just so fascinating.
407
00:21:59,549 --> 00:22:04,379
She was looking at are there better or
worse ways to express that gratitude?
408
00:22:04,379 --> 00:22:08,489
You know, if you want to make sure
your partner feels appreciated for
409
00:22:08,489 --> 00:22:11,339
the things they do for you, what
is the best way to convey that?
410
00:22:11,369 --> 00:22:14,819
And she was really looking
at the difference between.
411
00:22:15,529 --> 00:22:19,669
What you can think of as cost,
highlighting expressions or
412
00:22:19,669 --> 00:22:20,779
responsiveness highlighting.
413
00:22:21,529 --> 00:22:22,069
Expression.
414
00:22:22,069 --> 00:22:23,059
So let me give an example.
415
00:22:23,059 --> 00:22:26,449
Imagine again, I'm preparing
for this big speech.
416
00:22:26,449 --> 00:22:30,379
We'll stick with that scenario and I'm
working really hard and I'm feeling a
417
00:22:30,379 --> 00:22:34,489
bit overwhelmed and my partner goes out
to my favorite coffee shop and brings
418
00:22:34,489 --> 00:22:38,599
me my coffee, and just sort of brings
it to my desk and is like, here you go.
419
00:22:38,599 --> 00:22:40,129
To help you get through this.
420
00:22:40,789 --> 00:22:42,169
I wanna express gratitude.
421
00:22:42,489 --> 00:22:46,539
One way I could express gratitude
would be by highlighting the cost.
422
00:22:46,569 --> 00:22:48,279
It was for my partner to do this.
423
00:22:48,369 --> 00:22:49,449
Thank you so much.
424
00:22:49,449 --> 00:22:52,869
I know that coffee house is out of
the way for you, so I appreciate you
425
00:22:52,869 --> 00:22:54,339
doing that and bringing me this coffee.
426
00:22:54,839 --> 00:22:58,439
Another way you can express
gratitude is called responsiveness
427
00:22:58,439 --> 00:22:59,879
highlighting, and that is.
428
00:23:00,334 --> 00:23:01,954
Thank you so much for
bringing this coffee.
429
00:23:01,954 --> 00:23:06,004
This is exactly what I needed
because I need an energy boost
430
00:23:06,004 --> 00:23:08,524
to get through my day, and this
coffee's really gonna help me.
431
00:23:08,524 --> 00:23:12,514
So it is really highlighting how
what the partner did is helping
432
00:23:12,514 --> 00:23:14,104
me and my needs at that moment.
433
00:23:14,254 --> 00:23:15,124
And so they were.
434
00:23:15,354 --> 00:23:19,854
Wondering which one of those kinds of
gratitude expressions is gonna make
435
00:23:19,854 --> 00:23:21,774
the recipient feel most appreciated.
436
00:23:21,954 --> 00:23:24,834
And interestingly, I found this a
little surprising 'cause a lot of
437
00:23:24,834 --> 00:23:27,894
people, when I teach this in my class,
they all think the cost highlighting,
438
00:23:27,894 --> 00:23:28,854
I would've thought the same thing.
439
00:23:28,854 --> 00:23:29,334
It's not.
440
00:23:29,334 --> 00:23:32,424
It's the responsiveness highlighting
that the recipient felt.
441
00:23:32,774 --> 00:23:38,344
More appreciated and happy knowing that
they had met your needs than, if you had
442
00:23:38,344 --> 00:23:40,084
just highlighted the cost it was to them.
443
00:23:40,114 --> 00:23:42,484
So I thought that was a really
interesting finding and something
444
00:23:42,484 --> 00:23:45,094
to keep in your back pocket next
time you wanna express gratitude.
445
00:23:45,244 --> 00:23:48,064
Kelsy: I love the little tips and
tricks too, but that is, I totally,
446
00:23:48,064 --> 00:23:51,324
I was thinking, I was like, how would
I have expressed it just without
447
00:23:51,324 --> 00:23:54,764
even knowing, you know, if my husband
brought me coffee, because that's a.
448
00:23:55,114 --> 00:23:55,774
Totally.
449
00:23:55,774 --> 00:23:58,564
Something that would work for
me is in helping me prepare.
450
00:23:58,564 --> 00:24:00,514
I was like, oh, you know,
the key to my heart.
451
00:24:00,514 --> 00:24:06,534
But, um, I definitely would've done a
cost response, I guess, versus a like.
452
00:24:07,034 --> 00:24:09,074
Experience, reaction, response for myself.
453
00:24:09,074 --> 00:24:10,334
So that's interesting.
454
00:24:10,334 --> 00:24:11,714
'cause I would not have thought of that.
455
00:24:12,104 --> 00:24:14,474
Moving away from maybe some
of the high moments mm-hmm.
456
00:24:14,714 --> 00:24:19,754
And a little more into what your research
is on different daily life stressors
457
00:24:19,754 --> 00:24:22,341
that might impact a relationship What.
458
00:24:22,841 --> 00:24:25,421
Are some of those daily life
stressors that we might not
459
00:24:25,421 --> 00:24:29,321
actually know about and how do those
affect our romantic relationships?
460
00:24:29,531 --> 00:24:30,311
Lisa: Absolutely.
461
00:24:30,311 --> 00:24:34,831
So something that I think people
really need to keep in mind and.
462
00:24:35,331 --> 00:24:38,511
You know, when you hear about what does
it take to keep a relationship strong
463
00:24:38,511 --> 00:24:42,381
people are often, like, as I said earlier,
communication and gratitude and all these
464
00:24:42,381 --> 00:24:47,961
things, but we're not thinking about our
broader life circumstances that all of
465
00:24:47,961 --> 00:24:50,241
those stressors we face outside the home.
466
00:24:50,241 --> 00:24:50,631
So.
467
00:24:50,846 --> 00:24:52,916
Those stressors we have at work.
468
00:24:53,086 --> 00:24:55,096
Maybe it's caring for aging parents.
469
00:24:55,126 --> 00:24:57,166
Maybe it's a fight we have with a friend.
470
00:24:57,436 --> 00:25:01,006
Maybe it's just getting stuck
in a horrible, Austin traffic,
471
00:25:01,006 --> 00:25:04,146
you know, whatever that
stressor is, those stressors.
472
00:25:04,646 --> 00:25:08,546
Change our, our mood, our wellbeing,
and we take that home with us and it
473
00:25:08,546 --> 00:25:10,136
spills over into our relationship.
474
00:25:10,136 --> 00:25:13,616
It's a process known as stress spillover,
that stressors we experience outside
475
00:25:13,616 --> 00:25:18,206
the home spill over and affect the way
we think and behave inside the home.
476
00:25:18,716 --> 00:25:22,316
And, I'll talk a little bit first
about the way stressors affect us
477
00:25:22,316 --> 00:25:25,706
and then I can break it down between
like bigger and daily hassles.
478
00:25:25,806 --> 00:25:31,326
But I've done a lot of work on
all the ways stress can interfere
479
00:25:31,416 --> 00:25:33,606
with constructive relationships.
480
00:25:33,636 --> 00:25:39,426
And basically what stress does is
first it gives us more problems in the
481
00:25:39,426 --> 00:25:41,286
relationship that we have to cope with.
482
00:25:41,676 --> 00:25:46,386
And second and independently it hinders
our ability to cope with any problems
483
00:25:46,656 --> 00:25:49,506
that do crop up in an adaptive fashion.
484
00:25:49,506 --> 00:25:51,546
And so let me give
examples of both of those.
485
00:25:51,996 --> 00:25:55,956
First, stress gives us more problems
to deal with in the relationship.
486
00:25:56,456 --> 00:25:59,246
What the research shows is
that, you know, we all know we
487
00:25:59,246 --> 00:26:00,536
only have 24 hours in the day.
488
00:26:00,686 --> 00:26:05,456
That is a reality that we all face,
and so every minute that you spend
489
00:26:05,636 --> 00:26:08,366
coping with your stressors is a minute.
490
00:26:08,396 --> 00:26:10,526
You're not spending
nurturing the relationship.
491
00:26:11,021 --> 00:26:15,941
When partners are coping with more work
stress, more life stressors, whatever, you
492
00:26:15,941 --> 00:26:20,081
know, financial stressors, whatever the
stressors may be, they're often spending
493
00:26:20,081 --> 00:26:22,601
less time building that emotional capital.
494
00:26:22,631 --> 00:26:25,301
They're not engaging in
those nurturing activities.
495
00:26:25,601 --> 00:26:29,981
People who have more stress report,
having less time with their partner.
496
00:26:30,151 --> 00:26:31,941
Again, we only have 24 hours in the day.
497
00:26:31,941 --> 00:26:34,791
If you're working late, that is time
you're not spending with your partner.
498
00:26:35,481 --> 00:26:38,421
And they report that the limited
time they do have with their
499
00:26:38,421 --> 00:26:40,401
partner is less satisfying.
500
00:26:40,931 --> 00:26:44,741
Instead of going on that date
night or doing those things
501
00:26:44,741 --> 00:26:45,881
to nurture the relationship.
502
00:26:45,881 --> 00:26:48,371
When you're faced with a lot of
stress, often the time you're
503
00:26:48,371 --> 00:26:49,211
sharing with your partner.
504
00:26:49,736 --> 00:26:50,996
Coping with the stress, right?
505
00:26:50,996 --> 00:26:53,936
If you have financial difficulties, you're
talking about how to work through that.
506
00:26:53,936 --> 00:26:55,766
You're not going on a date
night with each other.
507
00:26:55,826 --> 00:27:00,616
And so what, happens when people are
more stressed is they start to feel a
508
00:27:00,616 --> 00:27:02,746
little bit more emotionally disconnected.
509
00:27:03,166 --> 00:27:06,776
I also have research that shows they're,
physically disconnected as well.
510
00:27:06,996 --> 00:27:09,426
This was a study of newlyweds,
and again, newlyweds.
511
00:27:09,426 --> 00:27:10,686
They're in the early phases.
512
00:27:10,686 --> 00:27:13,416
Everything's usually pretty
unicorns and rainbows.
513
00:27:13,806 --> 00:27:16,056
But, uh, I found that even in newlyweds.
514
00:27:16,556 --> 00:27:20,906
On days when they had just one
stressor, they were less likely to
515
00:27:20,906 --> 00:27:23,486
engage in physical intimacy with
their partner compared to days
516
00:27:23,486 --> 00:27:24,776
when they didn't have any stress.
517
00:27:24,926 --> 00:27:28,966
So it interferes with that kind of
connection that we have with our partner.
518
00:27:29,466 --> 00:27:34,326
But in addition to just creating
more of that disconnect when we're
519
00:27:34,326 --> 00:27:39,276
stressed, we have more difficulty
addressing the problems that
520
00:27:39,276 --> 00:27:40,716
do crop up in our relationship.
521
00:27:40,766 --> 00:27:42,986
If the limited time we
have with our partner.
522
00:27:43,631 --> 00:27:45,851
Has to be spent coping with the stressors.
523
00:27:45,851 --> 00:27:47,111
Well then maybe we'll be okay.
524
00:27:47,111 --> 00:27:49,721
If we can use good communication, right?
525
00:27:49,721 --> 00:27:52,121
We can effectively talk through conflict.
526
00:27:52,121 --> 00:27:53,561
We can effectively support each other.
527
00:27:54,161 --> 00:27:56,291
Stress interferes with all of that.
528
00:27:56,391 --> 00:27:59,481
So one thing stress does, I can
sort of walk through a sequence
529
00:27:59,481 --> 00:28:01,156
of events when we're stressed.
530
00:28:01,656 --> 00:28:04,806
You can think about it as it's a
filter in how we view the world.
531
00:28:04,836 --> 00:28:07,266
You know, think about when you're
really stressed out, there's
532
00:28:07,266 --> 00:28:08,616
sort of a cloud hanging over you.
533
00:28:08,646 --> 00:28:12,036
There's a negativity and that
filter comes home with us.
534
00:28:12,096 --> 00:28:17,406
So we found in our research that even
among newlyweds who generally see
535
00:28:17,406 --> 00:28:20,226
the best in their partner, they're
more likely to focus on the good
536
00:28:20,226 --> 00:28:22,746
and downplay the minor negatives.
537
00:28:23,246 --> 00:28:27,416
When they're stressed, partners
are more likely to focus.
538
00:28:27,731 --> 00:28:31,631
On each other's negative qualities and
less so on their positive qualities.
539
00:28:31,871 --> 00:28:36,911
So if I'm stressed out, I am much more
likely to notice that my partner didn't
540
00:28:36,911 --> 00:28:41,201
unload the dishwasher and not to notice
the other good things they did that day.
541
00:28:41,261 --> 00:28:44,741
So when we're stressed, it sort of
just colors the way we see things.
542
00:28:44,741 --> 00:28:48,901
It negativity stands out more
once we notice that negativity.
543
00:28:49,401 --> 00:28:53,271
If we're stressed, we're more likely
to blame our partner for it as opposed
544
00:28:53,271 --> 00:28:54,681
to give them the benefit of the doubt.
545
00:28:54,891 --> 00:29:00,831
Normally, happy couples when their
partner messes up have a grace, right?
546
00:29:00,831 --> 00:29:03,501
they're more likely to be like,
okay, you said you were gonna
547
00:29:03,501 --> 00:29:04,701
do this, Erin, you didn't.
548
00:29:04,761 --> 00:29:06,381
I know you've got a lot going on.
549
00:29:06,571 --> 00:29:08,041
I know this wasn't intentional.
550
00:29:08,071 --> 00:29:08,881
We'll deal with it.
551
00:29:09,301 --> 00:29:10,591
Versus if I'm stressed.
552
00:29:11,266 --> 00:29:14,026
I'm more likely to think, you said
you were gonna do this errand.
553
00:29:14,026 --> 00:29:14,536
You didn't.
554
00:29:14,596 --> 00:29:16,306
You're an insensitive jerk, right?
555
00:29:16,306 --> 00:29:17,476
You did not pull your weight.
556
00:29:17,476 --> 00:29:21,316
Today, we're more likely to have that
more blaming interpretation of why
557
00:29:21,316 --> 00:29:22,966
they engaged in that negative behavior.
558
00:29:23,626 --> 00:29:27,316
And when we try to talk to our
partner about it, we're more
559
00:29:27,316 --> 00:29:28,846
hostile in our communication, right?
560
00:29:28,846 --> 00:29:31,516
If we're already feeling, I've
noticed these negative things more,
561
00:29:31,516 --> 00:29:32,836
I'm blaming you more for them.
562
00:29:33,046 --> 00:29:36,646
I'm less constructive in talking
through those problems with my partner.
563
00:29:36,856 --> 00:29:39,496
When we do sit down to try
to talk through those issues.
564
00:29:39,996 --> 00:29:44,786
And just to really, the cherry on
top of this bad Sunday is we also
565
00:29:44,816 --> 00:29:47,726
become worse at being a support
provider when we're stressed.
566
00:29:47,726 --> 00:29:50,366
So if we go back to that, you
know, what does it take to
567
00:29:50,366 --> 00:29:51,926
be a good support provider?
568
00:29:52,196 --> 00:29:54,176
You have to notice your
partner needs support.
569
00:29:54,566 --> 00:29:55,766
If I'm stressed.
570
00:29:56,201 --> 00:29:59,711
I tend to become more self-focused
as opposed to other focused.
571
00:29:59,981 --> 00:30:04,421
So I am less likely to pick up on the
cues that my partner wants support.
572
00:30:05,021 --> 00:30:08,151
But let's say my partner's very direct
and they're like, Hey, I need support
573
00:30:08,151 --> 00:30:10,161
right now, so I know they want support.
574
00:30:10,491 --> 00:30:14,421
Our research also shows that if
I am stressed, even when I know
575
00:30:14,421 --> 00:30:17,061
my partner wants support, I'm
less likely to give it, right?
576
00:30:17,061 --> 00:30:17,721
I might feel.
577
00:30:18,211 --> 00:30:22,141
Overwhelmed, like I don't have any
resources to give, so I'm just less
578
00:30:22,141 --> 00:30:23,971
likely to provide support in that moment.
579
00:30:24,361 --> 00:30:29,281
And if I do dig deep and try hard to
give that support, the support I give
580
00:30:29,281 --> 00:30:33,631
is usually of lower quality, and so
it can really interfere with all these
581
00:30:33,631 --> 00:30:38,251
levels of what it takes to keep the
relationship happy and strong over time.
582
00:30:38,751 --> 00:30:41,121
Stress can be really
damaging to a relationship.
583
00:30:41,661 --> 00:30:48,051
And something that is interesting is
research has looked at, okay, what kinds
584
00:30:48,051 --> 00:30:51,651
of stressors are most damaging you can
think about, you know, I've been giving
585
00:30:51,651 --> 00:30:56,031
examples of daily hassles, like, you
know, you've had a work deadline or.
586
00:30:56,196 --> 00:31:00,156
you got stuck in traffic or whatever
these everyday hassles are that just
587
00:31:00,156 --> 00:31:04,776
sort of put a cloud over us versus,
you could also think of major stressors
588
00:31:04,786 --> 00:31:09,506
There's been research on natural
disasters, COVID, you know, someone
589
00:31:09,506 --> 00:31:11,456
being diagnosed with a serious illness.
590
00:31:11,456 --> 00:31:17,456
All of these major stressors and research
has looked to see which has the most
591
00:31:17,456 --> 00:31:19,106
consistent effects on relationship.
592
00:31:19,136 --> 00:31:22,556
And interestingly, what they find is.
593
00:31:22,941 --> 00:31:27,051
Daily hassles have a more
robust, negative effect on
594
00:31:27,051 --> 00:31:28,551
relationships than major stressors.
595
00:31:28,551 --> 00:31:33,071
And here is why when a major event
happens, you know, an illness, someone's
596
00:31:33,071 --> 00:31:37,121
fired from a job, people are very
aware that stressor is happening.
597
00:31:37,841 --> 00:31:38,861
there's sort of an.
598
00:31:39,361 --> 00:31:44,401
Unspoken rule that your job is to pull
together and try to work through it, and
599
00:31:44,461 --> 00:31:47,851
you are aware that you're stressed and
it's gonna be harder to work through it.
600
00:31:47,851 --> 00:31:52,921
And so you try to correct and do better
by your relationship during those times.
601
00:31:53,401 --> 00:31:57,331
Assuming that you have coping resources
available to help you with the stress,
602
00:31:57,391 --> 00:31:59,731
some couples weather that storm, okay?
603
00:31:59,941 --> 00:32:02,521
If you don't have coping resources,
then the stress is still gonna be
604
00:32:02,521 --> 00:32:06,541
harmful to you, but there's a chance
you can do okay because you're aware
605
00:32:06,541 --> 00:32:11,731
of the stress and it's more likely to
mobilize cooperative efforts, mobilize
606
00:32:11,731 --> 00:32:14,731
support in the relationship, and
they're gonna try to do more to overcome
607
00:32:14,731 --> 00:32:17,221
that stress together daily hassles.
608
00:32:17,721 --> 00:32:19,191
Affect you without your awareness.
609
00:32:19,221 --> 00:32:23,331
We're not always aware that the
reason I'm so snippy is because I'm
610
00:32:23,331 --> 00:32:24,741
grumpy 'cause of traffic, right?
611
00:32:24,741 --> 00:32:30,291
we don't make that connection and so
we just behave badly, not recognizing
612
00:32:30,471 --> 00:32:32,061
the role that our stress is playing in.
613
00:32:32,721 --> 00:32:33,951
Shaping our behavior.
614
00:32:33,981 --> 00:32:35,961
And so it's a lot more insidious.
615
00:32:35,961 --> 00:32:39,231
It sort of spills over into our
relationship without our awareness,
616
00:32:39,291 --> 00:32:42,651
so we're not trying as hard to
correct our behavior in those moments.
617
00:32:42,651 --> 00:32:43,371
Does that make sense?
618
00:32:43,401 --> 00:32:43,851
Totally.
619
00:32:43,851 --> 00:32:47,661
so that's why those daily
hassles can be so harmful to us.
620
00:32:48,301 --> 00:32:50,371
Kelsy: The more that I think about it, I
would've thought major life stressors for
621
00:32:50,371 --> 00:32:54,901
sure, but the fact that you're more aware
of those, it is more of a teamwork thing.
622
00:32:54,901 --> 00:32:57,721
You're like, okay, I understand your.
623
00:32:57,946 --> 00:33:00,316
A parent is ill, like,
we have to come together.
624
00:33:00,316 --> 00:33:02,596
I know that I'm gonna have to take
care of the home a little bit more.
625
00:33:02,596 --> 00:33:03,496
You're gonna have to be there.
626
00:33:03,526 --> 00:33:03,616
Mm-hmm.
627
00:33:03,976 --> 00:33:04,756
I understand that.
628
00:33:04,756 --> 00:33:06,976
Like, now that you say it,
I'm like, oh, well of course.
629
00:33:07,036 --> 00:33:08,806
But what about those daily life stressors?
630
00:33:08,806 --> 00:33:11,086
Are there things that you
guys have seen that we can do
631
00:33:11,086 --> 00:33:12,966
to help buffer that or help.
632
00:33:13,466 --> 00:33:15,866
I guess bring awareness to that, to foster
633
00:33:15,866 --> 00:33:17,486
Lisa: that teamwork during those times.
634
00:33:17,696 --> 00:33:17,966
Yeah.
635
00:33:17,966 --> 00:33:21,836
So there, there are, uh, a couple
things, building on this idea of why the
636
00:33:21,836 --> 00:33:24,056
major life stressors are less harmful.
637
00:33:24,296 --> 00:33:26,576
This idea of awareness is important.
638
00:33:26,816 --> 00:33:28,976
So even with daily life stressors.
639
00:33:29,606 --> 00:33:33,026
Just knowing about this effect making
sure that you're a little bit more
640
00:33:33,026 --> 00:33:37,856
aware of how those everyday hassles
might be influencing you can help
641
00:33:38,096 --> 00:33:42,446
because we definitely have research
that shows that when people are more
642
00:33:42,446 --> 00:33:44,756
aware of their stress and their.
643
00:33:45,041 --> 00:33:49,861
More likely to blame the stress for
the issues they're having, then you
644
00:33:49,861 --> 00:33:51,811
don't have that same stress spillover.
645
00:33:51,811 --> 00:33:55,921
So if you can just become more aware
of the way those everyday hassles are
646
00:33:55,921 --> 00:34:00,031
affecting you, you can work harder to
correct your behavior or at least give
647
00:34:00,031 --> 00:34:01,171
your partner a heads up and be like.
648
00:34:01,736 --> 00:34:03,206
I had a really rough day.
649
00:34:03,626 --> 00:34:05,006
I'm sorry if I'm snippy.
650
00:34:05,066 --> 00:34:08,416
I need a moment, and just just
try to diffuse the situation.
651
00:34:08,866 --> 00:34:12,106
By the same token, that can be hard
for the stressed out person to do.
652
00:34:12,496 --> 00:34:16,366
So I always say to the partner
of the stressed out individual,
653
00:34:16,726 --> 00:34:20,056
try to be as gracious as possible
in that moment and know that.
654
00:34:20,661 --> 00:34:23,271
Your partner is acting this
way because of their stress.
655
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:27,751
And if you can bite your tongue, don't
engage in negative reciprocity and try to
656
00:34:27,751 --> 00:34:33,161
be, a, more supportive, generous person
and, understand they are stressed and
657
00:34:33,161 --> 00:34:34,420
give them the space to get through it.
658
00:34:34,630 --> 00:34:37,931
Sometimes it can really help for
the partner of the stress individual
659
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:39,821
to diffuse the situation until.
660
00:34:40,036 --> 00:34:41,206
The stress subsides.
661
00:34:41,545 --> 00:34:44,815
if we can always take turns being
stressed, that's ideal, but I understand
662
00:34:44,815 --> 00:34:45,835
it doesn't always work that way.
663
00:34:46,085 --> 00:34:49,295
Kelsy: I think Brene Brown has the
concept where, you know, you and your
664
00:34:49,295 --> 00:34:51,306
partner say, I'm showing up at 50% today.
665
00:34:51,306 --> 00:34:55,025
I feel like that's kind of a nice
external third party view of like,
666
00:34:55,025 --> 00:34:56,496
listen, my tank is here today.
667
00:34:56,496 --> 00:34:57,065
Exactly.
668
00:34:57,336 --> 00:34:59,976
What, is that a helpful
strategy, do you think?
669
00:34:59,976 --> 00:35:03,681
For I, I think it would be helpful
absolutely so I know a mantra
670
00:35:03,731 --> 00:35:05,381
That always comes to mind for me.
671
00:35:05,381 --> 00:35:08,441
Anytime I face a personal challenge,
A relationship challenge is there's
672
00:35:08,441 --> 00:35:09,551
light at the end of the tunnel.
673
00:35:09,581 --> 00:35:11,771
We always hope that there's
light at the end of the tunnel.
674
00:35:11,771 --> 00:35:13,361
So have you guys seen that?
675
00:35:13,421 --> 00:35:18,791
Couples that overcome these daily life
stressors situations, or even major
676
00:35:18,791 --> 00:35:21,551
life stressors in a productive way.
677
00:35:21,911 --> 00:35:23,231
Is their relationship stronger?
678
00:35:23,231 --> 00:35:26,231
Is there a light at the end of the
tunnel if they can successfully navigate
679
00:35:26,231 --> 00:35:30,281
some of those either minor daily life
stressors or the major life stressors?
680
00:35:30,311 --> 00:35:31,121
Lisa: Absolutely.
681
00:35:31,121 --> 00:35:34,961
Couples can build a resilience
to the harmful effects of stress.
682
00:35:34,961 --> 00:35:37,901
You can think of it as, you know,
practice doesn't make perfect, but
683
00:35:37,901 --> 00:35:39,311
practice makes a whole lot better.
684
00:35:39,831 --> 00:35:44,061
in one study that we did, we
were looking at newlywed couples.
685
00:35:44,561 --> 00:35:48,281
How the stressors they had at the
beginning of their marriage and how
686
00:35:48,281 --> 00:35:49,571
they coped with those stressors.
687
00:35:49,691 --> 00:35:52,691
And then we followed them over the
next five years through what we
688
00:35:52,691 --> 00:35:54,221
know is a very stressful event.
689
00:35:54,251 --> 00:35:55,781
It's a joyous event, but a stressful one.
690
00:35:55,781 --> 00:35:57,131
And that is the transition of parenthood.
691
00:35:57,251 --> 00:36:02,031
And how did they cope with
that new stressor that can, be
692
00:36:02,031 --> 00:36:05,121
really challenging for a lot of
couples and daily to negotiate?
693
00:36:05,121 --> 00:36:05,661
Yes.
694
00:36:06,161 --> 00:36:14,951
And so what we found is that, if couples
have moderate levels of stress and they
695
00:36:14,951 --> 00:36:19,961
have the skills and resources necessary
to successfully address that stress,
696
00:36:20,531 --> 00:36:26,351
they are more resilient to stressors
down the road compared to people who
697
00:36:26,411 --> 00:36:31,511
might have good resources but have less
experience managing stress together.
698
00:36:31,811 --> 00:36:34,721
So the couples who started
out their marriage with.
699
00:36:35,456 --> 00:36:38,816
Very little stress, but still
had some good communication.
700
00:36:39,146 --> 00:36:43,586
They struggled more when they became
parents in terms of how that stress
701
00:36:43,586 --> 00:36:46,346
affected their relationship compared
to the couples who had already
702
00:36:46,346 --> 00:36:50,726
had some experience applying their
skills to other stressors, and now
703
00:36:50,726 --> 00:36:52,136
were faced with this new stressor.
704
00:36:52,436 --> 00:36:55,826
So there definitely is
evidence that stress resilience
705
00:36:55,826 --> 00:36:57,446
can be built up over time.
706
00:36:57,841 --> 00:36:59,006
Kelsy: That's the light
at the end of the tunnel.
707
00:36:59,206 --> 00:36:59,326
Absolutely.
708
00:36:59,326 --> 00:37:00,451
I love to hear that, that too.
709
00:37:00,451 --> 00:37:03,781
Especially as someone who would like
to eventually enter that parenthood
710
00:37:03,781 --> 00:37:08,221
stage and knowing, that it is this
resiliency building and maybe again,
711
00:37:08,221 --> 00:37:11,101
putting into that emotional capital
to be like, okay, here's these little
712
00:37:11,101 --> 00:37:13,711
things that we can do for each other
that strengthen our relationship, the
713
00:37:13,711 --> 00:37:16,291
resilience that we're building through
all of these daily life stressors to
714
00:37:16,291 --> 00:37:18,271
help us in this next stage of parenthood.
715
00:37:18,691 --> 00:37:22,081
So sidestepping a little bit, let's
dive into friendship and I know
716
00:37:22,081 --> 00:37:24,631
that's not necessarily your primary.
717
00:37:24,631 --> 00:37:24,641
Mm-hmm.
718
00:37:25,141 --> 00:37:30,001
Research focus but talk to us a little
bit about friendship and especially
719
00:37:30,001 --> 00:37:34,051
you mentioned before this when we
were sort of prepping how men and
720
00:37:34,051 --> 00:37:37,111
women approach friendship a little
bit differently or maybe require
721
00:37:37,111 --> 00:37:38,551
different things from friendship,
722
00:37:38,801 --> 00:37:41,981
Lisa: there's been a lot of
research showing that men often
723
00:37:41,981 --> 00:37:45,881
benefit from being in a romantic
relationship more than women do.
724
00:37:46,061 --> 00:37:47,471
Men and women both benefit.
725
00:37:47,551 --> 00:37:49,951
but men get more of a boost
and people have been trying to
726
00:37:49,951 --> 00:37:51,511
figure out, well, why is that?
727
00:37:51,991 --> 00:37:56,221
And a big part of that seems to be that.
728
00:37:56,806 --> 00:38:01,816
When they enter a romantic relationship
for men, their partner becomes
729
00:38:01,816 --> 00:38:03,526
their primary source of support.
730
00:38:03,646 --> 00:38:08,356
Their partner is their everything, their
best friend, their support provider.
731
00:38:08,536 --> 00:38:13,336
Whereas women more likely to keep
a network of friends and divide
732
00:38:13,336 --> 00:38:14,626
some of those responsibilities up.
733
00:38:14,626 --> 00:38:19,096
So they have their partner, but they also
have other people who also are sources
734
00:38:19,096 --> 00:38:21,016
of support for them in their life.
735
00:38:21,046 --> 00:38:25,616
And that means, you know, if men are
totally relying on their romantic partner.
736
00:38:26,106 --> 00:38:29,286
if that relationship falters it
can create more issues there.
737
00:38:29,566 --> 00:38:34,166
So women are more likely to, keep
that friendship network and keep
738
00:38:34,166 --> 00:38:35,996
those other avenues of support.
739
00:38:36,026 --> 00:38:41,906
And that also has been shown to be really
important for couples relationships.
740
00:38:42,016 --> 00:38:47,266
Sociologists have identified some
trends over the past 40, 50 years that
741
00:38:47,266 --> 00:38:52,636
couples are becoming more isolated,
that compared to previous generations,
742
00:38:52,816 --> 00:38:56,746
couples today are less likely to spend
time with friends or be involved in
743
00:38:56,746 --> 00:39:00,606
community organizations or just be more
socially connected, that couples are
744
00:39:00,606 --> 00:39:02,556
becoming more of an island, so to speak.
745
00:39:03,006 --> 00:39:08,316
And that can be damaging because in my
lab we've done some research showing that.
746
00:39:08,661 --> 00:39:13,881
Having those external sources
of support can be really helpful
747
00:39:14,361 --> 00:39:16,971
when you're faced with conflict
in your romantic relationship.
748
00:39:16,971 --> 00:39:18,651
So in this particular study.
749
00:39:19,151 --> 00:39:22,901
We were looking at daily
conflict with a partner.
750
00:39:22,901 --> 00:39:25,321
So, we did what we call
a daily diary study.
751
00:39:25,321 --> 00:39:28,261
So every night before bed
couples are completing a survey
752
00:39:28,261 --> 00:39:29,401
about the events of their day.
753
00:39:29,461 --> 00:39:32,971
And part of that was did you have
any tensions or disagreements
754
00:39:32,971 --> 00:39:33,961
with your partner that day?
755
00:39:34,021 --> 00:39:37,736
And so, there's always gonna be some
days where those things happen every day.
756
00:39:37,751 --> 00:39:41,021
We were also measuring
people's cortisol level.
757
00:39:41,471 --> 00:39:44,201
In the morning and the evening
to look at their cortisol slopes.
758
00:39:44,201 --> 00:39:48,371
And as you may know, the, natural
slope of cortisol is when we wake
759
00:39:48,371 --> 00:39:51,281
up in the morning, it tends to be
sort of high to gear us up for our
760
00:39:51,281 --> 00:39:54,401
day and then it steadily decreases
over the course of the day.
761
00:39:54,701 --> 00:39:57,611
If it doesn't, that's a
sign of sustained stress.
762
00:39:58,001 --> 00:40:02,231
And so, we were looking at the link
between conflict with my romantic
763
00:40:02,231 --> 00:40:04,541
partner and my physiological stress.
764
00:40:05,236 --> 00:40:09,406
But we are also interested in the role
external friends play in that link.
765
00:40:09,586 --> 00:40:13,666
And so on average, what we found
is that on days when I had more
766
00:40:13,666 --> 00:40:17,416
conflict with my partner, I was
more physiologically stressed.
767
00:40:17,866 --> 00:40:23,746
But if I reported having more
satisfying relationships outside of
768
00:40:23,746 --> 00:40:26,116
my marriage, that link disappeared.
769
00:40:26,566 --> 00:40:30,086
Those conflicts with my partner
we're not creating more physiological
770
00:40:30,086 --> 00:40:33,566
stress in me, which just says
I'm better able to weather.
771
00:40:33,926 --> 00:40:37,466
The troubles in my relationship
if I have other sources of support
772
00:40:37,706 --> 00:40:40,406
to confide in and, you know,
help me through those times.
773
00:40:40,616 --> 00:40:41,636
And that was male and
774
00:40:41,636 --> 00:40:41,996
Kelsy: female?
775
00:40:41,996 --> 00:40:42,416
Both.
776
00:40:42,421 --> 00:40:42,491
Yes.
777
00:40:42,546 --> 00:40:42,936
Lisa: benefit.
778
00:40:42,936 --> 00:40:43,926
Male and female both
779
00:40:43,926 --> 00:40:44,646
Kelsy: had that benefit.
780
00:40:44,706 --> 00:40:45,576
That's interesting.
781
00:40:45,756 --> 00:40:48,126
And so women are just
better at having those.
782
00:40:48,411 --> 00:40:52,221
Other people outside of the romantic
relationship, men maybe struggle with
783
00:40:52,221 --> 00:40:55,221
that and it might take a little more
effort to build that, that network
784
00:40:55,221 --> 00:40:56,361
and that community a little bit.
785
00:40:56,661 --> 00:40:57,291
It makes sense.
786
00:40:57,331 --> 00:41:00,301
And I see it too, just playing
out in all of our friendships
787
00:41:00,301 --> 00:41:01,671
that we have as a couple and.
788
00:41:02,256 --> 00:41:04,356
Being a girl, I feel like
girlhood and friendship mm-hmm.
789
00:41:04,596 --> 00:41:06,246
It comes a little more naturally to us.
790
00:41:06,366 --> 00:41:08,676
We did an episode on Friendship,
I think back in November with
791
00:41:08,676 --> 00:41:10,086
the Thanksgiving episodes.
792
00:41:10,176 --> 00:41:10,386
Yes.
793
00:41:10,386 --> 00:41:14,016
And friendship and gratitude
and all of the fun things.
794
00:41:14,016 --> 00:41:18,636
And there was a, a theory, I think it's
called the tend and befriend theory.
795
00:41:18,636 --> 00:41:18,726
Yes.
796
00:41:18,726 --> 00:41:19,896
Where Yes, absolutely.
797
00:41:19,926 --> 00:41:24,276
Females are more, when they're faced
with challenges, they go to the tend and
798
00:41:24,276 --> 00:41:26,616
befriend, we wanna take care of others
and we wanna bring other people into that.
799
00:41:26,616 --> 00:41:27,396
Exactly, yes.
800
00:41:27,426 --> 00:41:27,851
Where men maybe.
801
00:41:28,521 --> 00:41:30,141
Go more towards that fight or flight.
802
00:41:30,201 --> 00:41:31,491
Yes, absolutely.
803
00:41:31,761 --> 00:41:33,321
So it, I thought that
was very interesting.
804
00:41:33,321 --> 00:41:37,071
I was like, wait I see that play
out too, so Well, I know I learned
805
00:41:37,101 --> 00:41:38,331
so, so much from you today.
806
00:41:38,331 --> 00:41:41,331
I really appreciate you coming on
and I feel like I was nodding the
807
00:41:41,331 --> 00:41:42,411
whole time and jaw on the floor.
808
00:41:42,411 --> 00:41:43,581
I was like, of course that makes sense.
809
00:41:43,791 --> 00:41:46,851
Selfishly, this has become a more of an
interest of mine and something I wanna
810
00:41:46,851 --> 00:41:50,811
dive more into, as I mentioned earlier,
being so invested in the physical
811
00:41:50,811 --> 00:41:53,331
health and wellness space and tracking
objective measures for muscle mass and
812
00:41:53,331 --> 00:41:56,691
bone marral density and cardiovascular
factors, and all of these things.
813
00:41:57,201 --> 00:42:00,511
And then realizing that the amount
that I run, the amount that I
814
00:42:00,736 --> 00:42:03,621
exercise, quitting, smoking,
whatever it is that you're trying.
815
00:42:04,041 --> 00:42:07,551
To do from a health behavior
standpoint might not even move the
816
00:42:07,551 --> 00:42:11,061
needle as much as some of the quality
relationships and building some
817
00:42:11,061 --> 00:42:12,711
of that community outside of it.
818
00:42:12,921 --> 00:42:16,731
So I love that you are able to come on
and share all of the benefits of that
819
00:42:16,781 --> 00:42:21,551
and the evidence physically of those
benefits too, with the wound healing.
820
00:42:21,551 --> 00:42:22,931
That is such a cool study.
821
00:42:22,931 --> 00:42:25,911
And measuring cortisol levels with
friendship, all of those things are
822
00:42:25,911 --> 00:42:29,781
things that people understand I feel
like a little bit better than maybe.
823
00:42:30,281 --> 00:42:33,431
This more abstract concept of how
do I even measure my relationships?
824
00:42:33,431 --> 00:42:34,026
How do I mm-hmm.
825
00:42:34,151 --> 00:42:35,771
Measure the quality of my relationships?
826
00:42:35,771 --> 00:42:38,411
So I appreciate you coming on
and breaking it down and, and
827
00:42:38,411 --> 00:42:39,341
talking about the research.
828
00:42:39,341 --> 00:42:41,081
I know I learned so, so much.
829
00:42:41,441 --> 00:42:42,281
Thank you very much.
830
00:42:42,281 --> 00:42:42,761
That was fun.
831
00:42:42,851 --> 00:42:43,361
Of course.
832
00:42:43,361 --> 00:42:45,371
So I will leave the link to Dr.
833
00:42:45,371 --> 00:42:48,551
Lisa's lab below and all of her
research articles below, if you guys
834
00:42:48,551 --> 00:42:50,291
are curious on what to dive in more.
835
00:42:50,541 --> 00:42:54,021
I think this will be an episode that I'm
gonna have to listen to probably every
836
00:42:54,021 --> 00:42:58,041
so often, especially if I need a little
bit of a refresher of like, okay, what
837
00:42:58,041 --> 00:43:02,631
did she say about support or conflict
management and all of these things that
838
00:43:02,631 --> 00:43:04,131
we all experience in our relationship.
839
00:43:04,131 --> 00:43:07,671
So I'm grateful to have this resource and
I'm grateful that you are able to come
840
00:43:07,671 --> 00:43:08,931
and share that education with others.
841
00:43:08,931 --> 00:43:09,951
So thank you so much.
842
00:43:09,981 --> 00:43:10,851
Thank you for having me.
843
00:43:10,851 --> 00:43:13,311
I hope you guys learned a lot and I
will see you guys again in the next
844
00:43:13,311 --> 00:43:14,751
episode of Wellness Exists, the pod.
