In this episode of Odejuma, Harry chats with Will Rhem Jr., a dancer, choreographer, poet, and teacher raised in the Gullah Geechee culture of South Carolina. Will has danced on Broadway and taught at Columbia, but this conversation lives somewhere quieter. He talks about tending the self like a garden, the parts of him left untended that kept growing anyway, and the childhood he had to walk back through to write his poetry collection, ‘Abandoned Gardens Still Grow.’ He reflects on Gullah Geechee identity, truth-telling as his first calling, and turning healing into a short film called ‘Bloom.’ It is an unhurried conversation about resilience, self-love, and what it means to grow in the dark. He closes the episode with a reading of one of his poems, and it is worth hearing in his own voice and will definitely leave you with something to sit with.

Connect with Will on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/willrhemjr/

Buy his book here: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/abandoned-gardens-still-grow-will-rhem-jr/1147522239

Connect with Harry on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/harryitie

For more information on Harry, visit: https://www.harryitie.com/

Get Odejuma delivered straight to your inbox, alongside personal reflections on the episode, by subscribing to the Substack here: https://odejuma.substack.com/

Support my work: https://buymeacoffee.com/harryitie

Hi, my name is Harry and welcome to Odejuma.

Odejuma is an ishakiri farewell that loosely translates to till tomorrow.

But for me, I look at it as a promise that there is so much more in life to look forward to.

And this interview driven storytelling podcast is rooted in that promise.

So as you take the time to listen, I want you to feel that as we go deeper with folks from across the Black diaspora, exploring the adventures, resilience, joy and the ordinary moments that change their lives that you would have a good hearty laugh with or you find something to sit with.

Because there is power in the stories of everyday people and these stories are worth telling.

Hey, y'.

All.

Welcome to another episode of Odejoma.

I'm super excited to be here with you today because I have a really exciting guest who I'm going to be getting to know.

But first, if you're just joining us, if it's your first time listening, use that like button, use that subscribe button, use that follow button.

Whether you're listening on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, wherever you listen to your podcast, if you're watching on YouTube, don't forget to actually use the subscribe button as well so you get notified when new episodes are around.

I'm Harry Ta.

I'm excited to introduce my guest to you today.

Will Rem Jr. Is a dancer, choreographer, poet and teacher who has spent his life moving between forms.

He was born in Frankfurt, Germany and was raised in the Gullah Islands of South Carolina.

He carries both distance and deep roots in the stories that he tells.

He has danced with, you know, popular artists and served as swing and movement captain in Harry Potter and the Cursed Child on Broadway.

He's a teacher.

His poetry collection Abandoned Gaddin Still Grow.

Trish is a journey through healing in four parts and is now becoming a short film called Bloom.

I'm super excited to welcome Will Rem Jr to Odejumah.

Hi Will.

How you doing today?

I am great.

Thank you for that wonderful introduction.

That was really good.

Thank you, thank you.

But yeah, I'm feeling really good.

I'm happy to be here.

Thank you for having me.

Looking forward to chatting with you, getting into the things and yeah, having a great convo.

Awesome, awesome.

And thank you also for sharing.

I think, I think, I think I don't know how I found you.

I think it was through your book, which I ordered by the way, and she gets to me really soon.

But I think I found you through your book.

I think it was on threads or something.

I was like, oh, this would be A very.

This would be someone I want to have conversation with.

Right.

I also like the idea behind splitting a poetry collection in four parts.

So something very spiritual about looking at what you were trying to do there.

So I'm very excited to dive right into, right into that conversation.

But I want to start off with.

For folks who are just hearing about you for the first time, for folks who I just, you know, threw a bio at, who is Will Rem behind all of these accolades and all this work that you've done?

Who is the person behind the story?

Yeah.

So again, like, first of all, nice to meet everybody who's watching this for the first time.

My name is Will Rem Jr.

I'm originally from South Carolina.

Buford, South Carolina.

Shout out to all my Gullah Geechee folks if you know, you know.

But yeah, I am just a creative, spirited black man from the South.

I'm an HBCU graduate alumni Bethune Cooking University.

And I love to create.

I love art, I love food, I love to eat.

Yeah, I just love to take my real life experiences and turn it into art.

You know, I am a storyteller, but I'm a truth teller first.

And I love to tell the truth that I live and the truth that I see and experience.

And I like to just kind of take it and make it into something beautiful, into something that I can share with people.

Yeah.

And that's, that's, that's, that's kind of the gist of who I am, I guess you want to say really cool guy, real chill guy.

You know, I just like to, to create and just be and have fun.

I love music.

Going into listening to, like, different DJ and house sets.

Love house music.

And I'm a really cool guy.

And I want to say first, shout out to Threads, because Threads has connected me with so many people.

And I know you mentioned earlier that's how you found me.

Yes.

And I recently got on Threads maybe, like, maybe about six months, six, seven months ago.

And like, I've been reaching out and just putting myself out there and putting my work out there.

And I've been connecting with a lot of people who are serious about what they do, who are passionate about what they do.

And it's really, really good to network with other people like that because I do believe in networking like a cross as opposed to, like trying to climb up some type of social ladder.

Yeah, I'm really glad that, like, my work found you, you found me, and we found each other because now we have a new connection here.

And I hope that.

That continues for the both of us.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

And I really, like I said, I really love threads.

I think that with all that happened on Twitter, with Twitter, I feel like a lot of black creatives, a lot of black folks, just migrated to threads and we've been able to use it and cultivate it in a way that is actually more impactful for us, whether it's for social connection or just even for, you know, building what we're trying to build creatively.

So shout out to threads.

Yeah.

You talk about being Gullah Geechee, and I think that, you know, when we, as someone who is Nigerian born and raised in Nigeria, I think that there is.

And, you know, I'm going to take it.

I'm going to take the L. For some of the Africans who are listening to this, you know, there's a lot of stereotypes that are perpetuated about African American folks about, you know, there is no culture, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And it's like a huge diaspora war.

But the Golagichi is a huge part of African American culture that.

That is, you know, people have their roots here.

This is your home.

And so when people say things like that, that kind of like, you know, I'm like that there are people who.

This is the ancestral home, you know, from.

For lack of a better word for it.

This is where their ancestors, you know, toiled the.

Toiled the soil and grew.

This is where their roots are from.

So I want you to talk a little bit about being God, like Geechee and what that means to you.

Yeah.

Because I feel like that that's also very immensely powerful in itself.

Yeah.

No, well, first of all, what I want to say is that for.

For those people who believe that African Americans have no culture, I just want to say go do your homework, do your research.

And that in fact, just open your eyes, open your eyes, open your ears and look around.

And everything that you see here in this country is African American culture.

Right.

And so being Gullah Geechee, for me, that it's who I am.

You know, we are taught from a very early age to be proud of who we are and to remember where we come from.

Like, my mama always said that to me.

Like, don't forget where you come from.

Don't forget where you come from.

No matter how far you go, don't forget where you come from.

And it's.

It's such a.

It's such a thing that I didn't realize until after I got, you know, older and left my home, hometown and went out to the world that I started to realize, like, no, like I have an identity.

No matter who tries to tell me that I am not something or I am just something, or I'm only something, I know exactly who I am.

I know who my people are.

I know where we come from.

I know our traditions and our beliefs and our cultural practices that has created the man that I am, you know, And I say that all the time.

I wouldn't be who I am without the love of my family, without the love of, like, my community and being a Gullah Geechee person.

Like, it is something that is very special to me because it is a rich history that is the beginning of a lot of African Americans in America coming through those ports of Charleston and Beaufort and Savannah, like, in that area, and being just dispersed throughout the country.

We've all come through there.

But for my people who were able to continue to live in those areas of the sea islands and maintain their culture and maintain their practices from the food, from the language, from the traditions, it is something remarkable.

Because you have to think in a time that African Americans were being stripped of their identity and were being forced upon a different type of cultural experience, that they were just had no idea what, what, what was, you know what I mean?

We were still able to hold on to our traditions and our practices.

And that is something special and remarkable.

And that's what makes us special, you know, because there's a strength behind it, there's a resilience behind it, there's an optimism behind it that allowed us to not let someone destroy completely.

You know, we still have those things that we practice that give us our identity.

So that when we walk into the walk into the world, we know who we are, you know, who we are, and we know that we do have culture, whether people believe, whether people choose to identify it, recognize it or not, you know, so it's something that means the world to me, and it's something that is very, very important to me and something that I will always rep and something that I will always make sure that I spread out to the world.

Because a lot of people don't know about it, you know.

Yeah.

Because a lot of people just haven't done the research or haven't been inform.

But it is our responsibility as people who come from that community and that culture to share it out to the world and to let people know that we do exist.

We are here, we are great, you know, we're talented, we're beautiful.

And yeah, we have something to say as well, you know, to Represent the African American people.

So, yeah, Kala Geechee all day.

That's great.

That's great to hear.

And I like how you break that down also, and which is why, like, these conversations are very helpful.

I like to say that, you know, this podcast is to expand people's consciousness of what the black diaspora is and how we are not, you know, the.

The times we spend having those fruitless conversations online, we could use that to harness, you know, a much more solidarity that can help move us as the people forward.

So thank you for also sharing that as well.

I want to move into your artistic practice right now and just talk a little bit about when did you discover the arts and you.

And when did you realize that, okay, I want to.

This is something that I want to do for the rest of my life.

How did that happen for you?

I feel like I've been always around the arts, right.

And it's something that, like, I feel like we are all always around the arts if we choose to see it.

But I think that growing up in the Gullah Geechee culture, there's always music, there's always singing, there's always dance.

You know, I always say this, like, I think black people's first musical theater is church.

You know what I mean?

Like, there's a whole performance happening in church.

I didn't necessarily grow up in church, but I went to church every now and then, and it was always a performance.

And I love the way that there was music playing, There was voices, there was.

There was singing, there was acting.

There's a whole story going on, and it became a theatrical experience.

And so I would say, like, if as early as I can remember, like, my have an older brother, we're 10 years apart, and he was a big music junkie.

He still is a big music junkie.

He played a lot of music in the house.

And so I grew up listening to a lot of music.

My mom listens to a lot of music.

She loves to dance, so it was something that was always around.

And music was, like, my first.

First love where I started playing instruments.

When I was in middle school, I started playing the trumpet, and I did music in instrumental music from 6th grade up until my senior year of college, where I marched at Bethune Cooking University and the March of Wildcats.

Shout out to the march of Wildcats.

But, yeah, it's just something that's always been around because.

And also, like, in music and me finding music, they had it in our schools as well.

We have different festivals back home, like the Gullah Festival and Heritage Festival, where There's always music, drums playing, people dancing, having a good time.

And so it's always been in my community, it's always been around and it's always something that has been interested in, I've been interested in rather I've been like actively participating it or not or as a spectator.

I was like, wow, that is cool.

I like the way this makes me feel.

And of course with music comes dance.

I was always dancing and you know, like I remember like being a kid and like cutting on music videos on Saturday morning and just kind of like roll my cereal and dancing to the music, things like that, having a good time and just enjoying my self expression as a little black boy who loves to be, who loves music and dance and creative things.

And you know, I was in chorus when I was in elementary school as like an elective, you know, not taking it too seriously, but just involved in it that way.

And also back home we're very big on stepping, like stepping.

I don't know if you guys are familiar with like HBCU style stepping or African stepping.

That's a big thing back home in our community.

In our community.

And I grew up stepping, you know, in elementary school, middle school, high school, was on step teams and it was something that really kind of like solidify like okay, like yeah, this is something that you like to do, to perform, to be an artist.

And like I said, got in middle school, picked up an instrument, got into college, started dancing seriously and went professional.

And then, you know, I just, I just went on with it.

And then also for writing, you know, I started writing when I was a young kid too.

I remember being in fourth grade and learning about poetry for the first time and you know, finding that there's music and there's rhythm and there's something artistic about that as well.

That really kind of intrigued me.

And you know, in that time there was a lot of shows about like, there was like a lot of coming of age shows where people had diaries and journals and they would go home and like Dear diary, like Moesha, like you know, fast.

And I was like, oh, that's so cool, like to have like a little journal.

And so I started one when I was a kid and, and that, that began my poetry and writing journey.

That was just something that I did for myself and another way to just explain, express just because I, I needed to.

And it wasn't for, you know, recognition or money, anything.

It was just like, this is what I feel, you know.

Yeah.

And I just never look back.

I've been writing ever since is that.

Something that you still do?

Are you still, are you still useful journal and writing your diaries till today?

Yeah, absolutely.

I have books on top of notebooks that I just like, I write in, you know, and I, you know, I think like I, and I sometimes I pick up my phone because we're also in the day of technology where it's just easy to pull out that notes app.

My notes get stuck too, you know, but I try to maintain my handwriting and I try to actually like put pen to paper because there's something about that, you know, as a writer that you, you understand that like, that is the, it's like the journey to the goal right in the process of it all, as opposed to just like with your thumb then putting it down.

So I definitely still write, I definitely still journal.

I have a bunch of journals and I'm probably going to be like that till the day I die.

Shout out to Vash and shout out to still writing with your hand because a lot of us are just, you know, get on your notes app or get on your computer.

But I just, I do really, I do like a nice notebook.

I like a nice pen.

That, how he feels on paper.

I think that is also really beautiful as well.

So something that I've noticed with like my like, like my older family members or just like older people in my community is that they still write.

My mom still writes everything down.

She doesn't even like think to put stuff in her notes, you know what I mean?

And I know that that's a generational thing, but I also think it's something that keeps them sharp, you know, And I think it keeps them like active in like moving in a way that like this, this thing can't do.

And so I'm like, yeah, I think I'm going to, I'm going to take note of this, keep writing for the rest of my life.

That's good.

That's just good.

I want to explore how you went from growing up and then now moving and switching to being a professional artist.

Right.

Because I feel like there, there is a, there's a shift that usually happens and sometimes it's not always the easiest thing to do.

To go from doing it, you know, in school or doing it, you know, on the weekends to now making a career out of it.

So how did that transition happen and what was like the first show that you realized, okay, now, okay, this is now my full time job, you know.

Wow.

You know, I believe in like divine timing and I believe that everything is very like when it's supposed to happen, it's going to happen.

And I think the moment that it clicked for me was actually when I was in college and I was performing.

I was in, like, one of my, like, one of the dance groups, and we were performing in a show that was just for the.

For the university.

I think it was like a back to school type of show or something.

And I remember performing in that show, being on stage and dancing, and then like, just receiving so much love from, like, not only my team, but like the audience and the students on campus, you know, who enjoyed the performance.

And the feeling that I got of being on stage and being in that, that, like, energy was like, oh, okay, like, now my.

Now my eyes are open, my ears are open, and I'm just kind of like, this is.

This is something happening here.

Something's happening here.

And the more I did it, the more I realized, like, oh, like, you really, really enjoy this, you know, and at the time, I was studying psychology in school, and I really enjoyed that as well.

But I started to think, like, well, what if I decided to take an alternate route after I graduated college?

What if I wanted to actually do this professionally?

Now, mind you, I had no idea how to do that.

I was just like, I just had thoughts, you know, and, you know, I see things.

We, you know, we were in the beginnings of social media at that time, so you would see things.

And a lot of people were taking classes in Atlanta, like dance World War I.

And, you know, there was a lot of things like that happening.

So there was this, this weekend intensive called ATLA.

And they were all coming into Atlanta to, like, do this, this weekend workshop.

And they were like, you know, looking for dancers and stuff like that.

Now, mind you, like I said, I had no experience, really.

I was just dancing in college.

I was like, all right, I'm just gonna take a.

Take a whim.

And I actually, a friend of mine, we got together, rented a car and drove to Atlanta and got a really, really cheap hotel and just went up there for the weekend and I danced.

And that was the first time I was around professionals, like people who do this, people who are making careers of it, people who were, you know, like, choreographing music videos that I love and watching dancers that, you know, that I've respected.

And it was an eye opener for me.

It was scary.

It was very scary.

I was like, oh, wait, I think I might be in over my head here, because I'm dealing with people who've been dancing for years and have so much experience, and I just.

I just like to do it.

And here I am in the same room with them, but in that fear and in that, like, that.

That timidness, I found, like, a courage that was like, yo, you can do this.

You can actually do it.

They're doing it.

You can do it.

You know what I mean?

If people are making a career out of this, if people are making a living for this, from this, then you can do that as well.

And so from that point on, like, you know, that weekend was tough.

I went back to.

Went back to school, and I was like, you know what?

This is what we're going to do.

Like, after I graduate, I'm moving to Atlanta, and I'm going to pursue this professionally and by the grace of God, like, again, timing, everything just kind of aligned in a very beautiful way.

Turned.

Like, after I left undergraduate school, I didn't actually start professionally dancing.

You know, it didn't work out that way.

I actually went to graduate school, and I got a full scholarship to FAMU to study community psychology in their program.

And it was a great opportunity.

And I was there doing my thing.

And that's when I. I came across Shapiro Hardiman at famu, who's over at Mahogany Dance Theater and Strikers Dance Troupe, shout out to Mr. Hardiman, who had a dance space there.

And again.

So that was.

That allowed me to continue moving in dancing in that way.

But he introduced me to.

To dance in Atlanta, a concert dance company called the Atlanta Dance Connection.

And he suggested that I go up there and watch this.

Watch this company perform.

And so I did.

And at that moment, that's when everything, like, officially clicked.

And so what I did was I saw.

I saw black dancers on a stage doing ballet, doing contemporary, doing modern, doing jazz in a very black way.

And when I say that, I mean, just.

They were telling an artistic story from our perspective, from a black perspective, because there are two different worldviews, multiple worldviews, but the black worldview is very specific as well.

And that was something very intriguing and something that I understood and I loved.

And I was.

I fell in love.

I fell in love in the Southwest Art center, but I saw that company get on stage and see just them do some beautiful work.

And I met the director after that, and I told him, I was like, wow, what a, you know, wonderful job the company did.

And I really want to dance, and I Wish I could, you know, do what you guys did.

And I never forget this.

He looked me up and down and was like, you want to dance?

And I was like, yeah.

He was like, you sure?

And I said, yeah.

He was like, all right, come to the class tomorrow.

And this was Saturday night, so he's like, come to class tomorrow, which would have been Sunday, and let's see what you got.

So I was like, okay, whatever.

He was like, come in, you know, leotard tights, you know, some ballet slippers.

And I had none of that.

So I showed up to a ballet class in basketball shorts, some black Nike, and a tank top, and I'm standing with my right hand on the bar.

And if, you know, in ballet class, you never.

You start with the left hand on the bar all the time, so.

And I had no idea what I was getting myself into, and I got.

Very much like, step up,.

Bury that.

You know, bury that.

And it's just like, I'm so happy that, like, I didn't.

I didn't chicken out, you know, I just, like.

I don't know what I'm.

What I'm doing.

I'd never taken a ballet class before, but I'm like, okay, I'm going to go.

I want to dance.

You know, I want to dance really bad.

So I went, and I got my ass kicked in that class really, really bad.

But obviously there was something there.

You know, There was something there because at the end of the class, he was like, okay, like, this is the deal.

If you agree to train five days a week, it's actually no, six days a week for about four to five hours a day with me in this company taking class.

I'll train you for free.

What?

For free?

Okay.

Yes.

Mind you, if you don't know, dance is very, very expensive, okay?

It's getting more and more expensive.

To this day.

Right now, a class is costing about, like, 27 to take a class.

I want to say some.

Some people are charging 35 for a class.

It's just really, really expensive.

You know, on top of the cost, the.

The dance wear and stuff like that and taking care of your bodies is really expensive.

So for someone to, like, train for free, it's.

It's really, really a really big blessing.

So I agreed to that.

And for the next two years, I moved.

I moved to Atlanta.

That means I left grad school.

My professors were very, very pissed with me.

Very, very, very upset with me.

I had a 4.0 GPA.

I was on full scholarship.

And I just was like, hey, so I'm sorry, this is, I gotta, my dream is calling me and I gotta go.

But we got over that, moved to Atlanta full time, and I started training six days a week, four or five hours a day, joined the company and that's when I began, like my professional journey to really become a professional dancer.

And from there I just, I just, it just kept going, you know, but shout out to Alan Gartrell and Levon Campbell of the Atlanta Dance Connection for giving me that opportunity to train.

It's for seeing something in me and for them to train me and give me a gift that allowed me to like, expand what I already had and keep doing this thing, you know, so that, that was, that was the beginning for me.

Very, very step up.

Very, very step up.

And I'm, I'm curious as to the version of Will that, you know, was.

What's the word I'm looking for the version of Will that may have been apprehensive about, oh, I have this scholarship to this.

In this, you know, college, a full scholarship is not, you know, it's not easy to get.

I have the scholarship, but I'm gonna make the move and leave and go chase my dreams.

How would that, how would, what would you sell that Will?

Now who's like, feeling the apprehension?

Whether should I, should I not?

Brother, it's gonna work out.

Let's go play, period.

It's going to work out.

Let's go.

You'll be all right.

Take a deep breath and let's go.

Come on, we got, we gotta go.

But you know, that part of me, I feel like I did have that back and forth, you know, during that time, because it wasn't just like my professors who were kind of like trying to keep me with my family as well, you know, my, my friends and my co workers at the time, you know, it's like, are you sure?

Because let's be honest, like when you say you're going to go chase a dream or especially when it's something artistic and creative, people are like, are you going to be that 40 year old rapper?

You know what I mean?

And it's just like, there's a lot of negatives talk around it and a lot of people just don't.

They don't because I guess we don't see it as often.

We don't believe it can happen as often.

You know, we know it can happen, but there is a lot of, there's a more doubt in our minds that things will like, that won't work because we just don't see it often, especially for us, you know what I mean?

Yeah, especially if we're in spaces already, you know, you're in a full scholarship, you're in graduate school, like come on, dude, you got chill out, you know.

But I, I, a part of me would just go back and tell that apprehensive will like trust yourself, listen to yourself, believe in yourself, you know, because you, you, you know, don't listen to all of that, you know, take, listen to it, take it in with a grain of salt, but trust yourself ultimately and do with what you do because like my brother always tells me, like, you got to live your life, you know, live your life for you.

And it's not to say ignore everybody, but just understand that those things are usually coming from a place of care.

Those things are usually coming from a place of fear, of their fears.

And if you understand those things for what they are and not take them on internally or personally as somebody's like, oh, they just don't want you to do it.

No, it's not about that.

Those things have more to do with those people than it has to do with you.

So at the end of the day, listen to your voice, trust your voice, follow your heart.

And if you fail, at least you can say you tried to.

Because at the end of the day, let's go back and do, you can always, you know what I mean?

You can always go back and get into another school or whatever, you know what I mean?

But at least you can say you try.

And I would think, I told myself, I would rather live with that than to say like, damn, what if I would have, what if I would have, what if I had, you know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, the what the what would have is harder than, you know, trying and feeling, you know what I'm saying?

So I'm glad you're able to listen to your, to yourself over from that time till now.

What are some of the highlights of your career so far?

The things that have brought you the most joy, the places you've performed, the things you've been a part of.

Yeah, I mean I'm, I can say I'll miss some specific things, but I'm going to say the whole, the whole thing has been the highlight because what I'm learning as I've get, as I've gotten older, I've been in the game almost like 12 years now, which is not a long time, but it's past the 10 year mark because I do believe in the whole idea of like it takes 10 years to be a professional.

10,000 Hours of practice to do the.

To be able to do the thing you really want to do.

But I'm realizing now at this point that everything that I've done up until this point, whether big or small, was extremely important and extremely meaningful to get me to this place that I am now.

And I'm learning that, like, it's not about the opportunity or the job.

It's about, like, your experience doing the thing.

Like, did you have fun?

You know, did you dance your ass off?

Did you.

Did you inspire?

Inspire?

Did you tell the story?

Did you.

You know what I mean?

Like, did you grow from that artistically and creatively?

So this.

This whole thing has just been a one big, beautiful highlight.

I feel like when I'm 20 years from now, God willing, I'll be able to sit back and like, damn, this was.

That was good.

You did that.

You know what I mean?

But some, like, really, really special moments was dancing with Philadelnko, the Philadelphia dance company.

If you don't know Philadenko, Philadelnko was one of the country's world's best black dance companies, ran by the legendary Jo Myers Brown, who's a pioneer in dance.

You know, as far as making a way for a lot of black dancers who, you know now as big stars from Leslie Odom and Lee Daniels and, like, all these different people who have come through for the deck.

So to be a part of that legacy was definitely one of my greatest accomplishments and one of the most influential times in my career, because I learned so much.

Because talking about being around professionals, but being around a seasoned professional like Joan Myers Brown, who has so much wisdom and so much knowledge to pour into dancers and who has seen so much, you know, it's just like, that's an incredible experience.

And on top of that, like, I got a chance to work in Japan for, like, nine months doing a show out there called Endless Shock, which is like musical theater in Japan for nine months.

And I toured through Tokyo and Osaka, and that was a really, really special moment for me because that was one of the moments where dance took me out of the country.

And that allowed me to share my gift in a myriad of ways.

Like, through a different language, through a different culture, and just to experience, you know, the work through the arts was just, like, incredible.

You know, I come from a military family, and so, like, my dad did a lot of traveling, my brother does a lot of traveling, being stationed in different places, and I always thought that was cool, but it was also a moment for me to be like, well, I'm not in the military, but I'm still like, I'm still here, I'm still there.

And it was just, it was a very, very like significant moment in my career.

But yeah, like, like I said the whole, the whole thing.

But I'll just, I'll.

I'll say those two for now.

Yeah.

So the journey is the highlight.

Yeah, the journey is the highlight.

You know, like I, you know, I think if you would have asked like 25 year old will, like I'm 35 now.

If you would have asked a 25 year old will what's the highlight, I would have started like name dropping and listen this and doing, you know what I mean?

And talk about that.

But it's just like while that is all cool and dandy, but it's just, it's just not where I am right now.

You know what I mean?

Like, I'm realizing that it's so much more about the bigger pict.

Because I'm not an artist just for the sake of being an artist or for the sake of saying that I am or for the sake of notoriety or listing things like it's not about that.

It's something much more deep and much more spiritual for me that is a necessity to my well being and to how I live life and how I navigate through this world as a black man.

And it's something that I'm realizing that I am so very lucky to do.

I'm so very blessed to be able to do this thing in the way that I do it.

And that said to dissect it and break it down into like moments would be a disservice.

You know, it's the entire thing, the good and the bad, you know, the times that I didn't have no damn money and I'm sleeping on people's couches, you know, I'm on a whole different state sleeping on some friend's couch just so I could take these classes or be in this program.

It's like things like that too.

You know what I mean?

Like they're, they all matter because every step was the next step to get you where you are now, you know, And I'm really, really, really.

I love where I am right now.

And I know that there's so much where so much more to do and you know, there's a lot more work to do.

But where I am right now, I'm.

I'm like, yes, thank you, I'm good.

You know, I'm going to ask you.

About so much more piece later on.

But let's talk about where you are right now.

Where you are right now is you have a published anthology, if that's.

Yeah, I think it's called an anthology, right?

A collection.

Yeah, but you have a published poetry collection, you know, because I don't want the literature girl used to come.

I'd be like, yo, that is the.

I'm like, please, please, please, you know, don't take it easier on me.

But you have.

That you are currently teaching as well.

You have Harry Potter and of course, Child.

You have your collective that I saw about where you.

That does a lot of things, from social impact to creative stuff as well.

How do you balance it all out?

How do you find time to do it all?

I'm still trying to figure that out, Harry.

There's a lot.

I, like probably many other artists, I get flooded with ideas, and I get flooded with different things that I'm interested in doing and want to do.

And it.

I'm learning now to just literally take it one day at a time, one step at a time, one thing at a time, and know that everything will eventually get done, you know?

So I think, what.

For me, the balance just kind of comes in.

And waking up today, waking up that day and deciding, first of all, checking in with myself, how am I feeling?

What am I, you know, where.

Where is my energy?

Because that's going to dictate what, you know, what's going to get a little bit more energy today.

Because, you know, sometimes I wake up and I'm like, I'm tired.

I don't got nothing today.

And I gotta go to work.

I got two shows to do today.

I'm trying to get some to eat, come home and go to sleep, and then we'll try again tomorrow, you know?

But some days, like, all right, boom.

I got no shows today.

I'm off today.

I got a lot of energy.

Let's work on this thing, you know, let's kind of get this thing going.

And I think so checking in daily and just kind of figuring out what do I want to do.

I'm really big on the autonomy of my life, where I'm just like, how do I exercise my free will at every corner?

You know, how do I exercise my free will?

By just saying, will, how do you feel?

Will, what do you want to do?

And how could we do that?

Because that makes me feel really, really good.

Okay.

So, yeah, I think that's where the balance comes in.

I'm still.

I feel like it could be a little bit better, but eventually, it'll all get done, you know, and on all those things and whether.

Whether it gets done, and I guess it's, like, not about when it gets done unless you put yourself on a hard deadline, but if it's something a little bit more, like, flexible, then I'm like, okay, it'll get done.

It'll get good.

Time comes, it'll get done.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay, cool.

Your book is called Abandoned Gradings Jill Grow.

Correct.

And that is kind of like an unforgettable title.

And it's also.

It's divided into sections.

Right.

I'm curious about.

First of all, where did that title come from?

Mm.

And what was the.

What's the story behind Abandoned Garden Still Grow?

Okay.

So thank you for saying that.

I really appreciate that.

You know, it's still a very surreal thing for me to hear feedback from other people around the book in whatever capacity that they give it, so thank you for that.

The Abandoned Garden Still Grow title is something that.

It just kind of came to me, and I just.

I stuck.

It really stuck.

At first, the title was originally just Abandoned Gardens, and then I had.

I added the Still Grow at the.

At the May, like, a two weeks after that, just because I was like.

I think that is, like, the icing on the cake.

But the Abandoned Garden Still Grow title comes from a place of recognizing myself as a garden, recognizing my mental as a garden, my physical, my spiritual, my emotional, just like my entire being is a garden.

Right.

And for any.

I don't garden, but I'm very fascinated with those who do, and I'm very fascinated with the idea of gardens, just because it is a way for humans to connect with nature in a way that is a relationship of a give and a take.

You know, you dig your.

You.

You know, you plant your seeds, and the earth gives you something back.

And I think that is.

The same rules can apply for ourselves as people.

It's a.

It is not about.

It's the relationship that we have with ourselves.

You know, what we give to ourselves and what we.

What we release and what we put out from those seeds that we plant within ourselves.

So the title came from this.

And that's like, the first couple of lines in the book.

One of my mentors gave me a piece of advice when I was going through a very difficult time in my late 20s, and he told me to.

To garden your thoughts.

And that those three words really, really stuck with me for a long time, because I had realized that I had a lot of different thoughts coming into my mind from the past.

From the future, from the present that were just growing wildly, you know, they weren't really being tended to in the sense of like, if I have some negative thoughts or some negative self talk or some anxiety about the future, how do I like pull those weeds out of my garden?

How do I remove those plants and those, those, those growths from my mind, you know?

And if, when I have those like more positive, affirming thoughts, how do I water those and nurture those in a way where they continue to grow, they continue to bloom in a way that is healthy for me in all aspects of my life?

So that's where that, that, that title came from.

It just became a way for me to start to tend to my garden, you know, and tend to it in a way that makes it a healthy relationship between myself and myself, you know what I mean?

And, and, and in turn, you know, when you're working on that relationship with yourself, you then work on the relationship that you have with other people.

You show up differently when you can show up for yourself, you know, whether that be in your familial relationships, your romantic relationships, your platonic friendships.

You just show up for people differently when you have a better relationship with yourself.

And I think that I knew that in order for me to, I guess like advance in not even just my career, but in life, to get to the next level, to leave a lot of the childish, young minded things that I have been involved in and been doing in the ways of thinking that I had from my early 20s and teens there.

I had to, I had to do a cleaning, you know, and I had to do a refresh of my garden because a lot of things had just been growing in ways where I was like, it's okay, you know, I'm not in therapy, who cares?

Whatever.

Da da da da da.

And then it's like, actually no, like you're becoming an adult now and you need to be able to tend to yourself in a way that is accountable and shows that you're responsible for yourself.

Because you can't go expecting to get saved or get fixed from any job or any person or any family, anything.

No one's coming to save you, you know, you have to do that work yourself.

So excuse me, that's where the beginning of that came from.

And so the abandoned garden part is just the idea of like those, those things in my garden that have been left untended, you know, whether they've been good or bad, whether it was like my potential to be great that I just was looking at and never Activated, you know, or the fear that I'm going to constantly fail, you know, or the insecurity around my life and my personal choices, you know, all these things that had just been sitting there, right, not getting tended to, however, they were still growing, they were still blooming, they were still thriving and becoming something that I had to kind of, like, claw my way through just to say, like, okay, like, let's.

Let's.

Let's clean this thing up and let's get it to how we need it to be.

And let's always remember to actively check into your garden and.

Because they're gonna.

They're gonna grow regardless.

They're gonna grow regardless, you know, so that's where that title came from and that.

That.

It.

I talk about that throughout the.

Throughout the book.

Just like my journey and just like my.

The process of tending to my own garden and really confronting some very uncomfortable truths, really confronting myself in a way that holds me accountable and allowing me to just deal with a lot of things that have been blinding me or holding me back or pulling me down, you know, some poison ivy, some things that just was making me itchy and sick.

And.

You know what I mean, this is like.

Like that, you know what I mean, where I'm just like, all right, metaphorically speaking, let's tend to this garden.

Yeah.

Would you say this.

Would you say, right, publishing this book or writing this book was therapeutic for you, and in what ways do you feel the change that happened to you personally after putting on pen to paper on this project?

Yeah, that's a really good question.

That's a really, really good question.

Because, yes, this book, writing it, creating it, the whole.

This.

This whole book is very therapeutic for me.

When I was writing this book, I actually did a lot of traveling around.

I left New York, I left the country because I felt like I needed to just kind of get into a new space just to really be honest with myself, you know what I mean?

For me personally, there's.

There is something about getting out of your comfort zone that allows you to kind of, like, not focus on what you're used to and not.

Not cling on to those old habits.

You know, you just.

You're like, you're out here now, so, like, you gotta be open, you know?

Be open.

So I went to Brazil.

I went to Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.

I went to Bogota, Colombia.

I went to Johannesburg, South Africa, and Cape Town, South Africa, over, like, two months.

And I began to put this book together.

And I was out there working for like, 12 hours a day.

Just really, like, writing it and getting it and editing and doing all the things.

I didn't finish the whole book while I was out there, but I did finish the draft where I was like, okay, when we come back to the States, we can edit it.

However, this book, writing it.

Oh, my God.

I experienced so many emotions.

I experienced so many things as I was writing it.

I mean, just like, crying, just, like, letting everything out and realizing that, like, it wasn't a bad cry of, like, frustration, but it was just like, it was the release.

It was a release of just a lot of things that I have been holding on to and pulling out of my garden, you know, and it's like clearing space, you know?

And I realized after, you know, I would write a section and I would just kind of bawl my eyes out or laugh or feel whatever I want to feel about it.

I step away from it.

And I felt so much better, you know?

I mean, like, I'm always.

I feel so much better, as if I was feeling bad, but I felt lighter.

I felt accomplished.

I felt, like, proud.

I felt like, yes, like, all right, like, this is something that I needed to do, and I'm happy that I get to do it in this form, right?

So, like, therapeutic beyond words is something that I'm going to be able to look at for the rest of my life and say, like, I'm not only proud of this work, but this work saved me.

This worked helped elevate me.

This work showed me that I can do it, you know, and that anytime that I do feel discouraged or feel down or, you know, need to tend to my garden and then don't know how I can pick up this book and remember that I already know how, you know, and use this as a piece of work that will live on for as long as it can, you know, and hopefully that it finds itself in the.

In the readers who are ready to receive that, who are on that journey, who can do the same thing.

And.

And that's something that I didn't really.

I wasn't thinking about as I was writing it.

But it's something that.

It hit me after the book came out and people started reading it and, you know, coming up to me and sharing things about how they resonate with the book and how there are certain things that they're working on or trying to or going through, and it.

You know, it helped them.

And that made me feel really good.

Cause I'm like, well, that's.

That's what it's all about.

You know what I mean?

That's.

I feel like art should be therapeutic, but not just for the creator.

It's just.

And then once my therapy is done, I'm like, okay, it's all yours now.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

If you choose to have that, then so be it.

But I'm like, okay, yeah.

Yeah.

And that is interesting and, you know, to hear you talk about your journey with the book and how, you know, writing every section kind of changed during a way and make it very therapeutic for you, like you said.

Is there any story you've heard from someone who's read the book that has shared with you how interacting with it, reading those poems has actually changed or shifted something with them?

Just the other day I was at work, I was at the theater, and one of my co workers, she had purchased the book, like, two days prior.

And then she said.

She came to me then, like, two days later, she was like, you know, I just finished the book.

And I was like, already?

Because I tell people, like, listen, this is.

I talk about a lot of, like, heavy stuff in this book.

You know what I mean?

It's not.

I.

It's something that you can read through on one sitting, but I advise you, like, take your time as you walk through my garden.

Okay?

Take your time.

This is like.

I just know it's.

It was heavy for me and emotional for me.

So, like, I know it could be a lot for people, but, you know, she read the book and, you know, she was like.

And I was like, wow, you read the whole thing?

She was like, yeah, like, I couldn't put it down because it was something that I really understood and resonated to for myself and for my husband, you know, and so she was just basically saying that, like, being.

Being that this story is told from the perspective of a black man.

She saw her husband, who was also a black man, through it as well.

Because there's a lot of.

She's like, you know, I understand that she.

He.

He has a hard time expressing himself and expressing his feelings and letting people know that, hey, I am not okay today.

Or, hey, I.

You know, today is not the best day.

I'm struggling.

I'm emotional, I'm.

Whatever these things is, because you have to be a man, right?

And so she was saying that, like, this book helped her understand him a little bit more and understand why he does some of the things that he does and also how she can be there for him even more.

Now, mind you, these people have been married for, like, 20 something years.

So I'm just like, that's that's pretty.

Pretty big, you know, for you to say that.

But you also said, you know, in regards to her, was that it helped her realize that she had a garden too.

And it helped her realize that there's been so many times where she didn't tend to her garden and that now that's how she thinks about herself.

Like, and she was saying that, like, today.

She said, today I decided to just rest because I need to let my garden rest.

Because that's what you talk about in the book.

Sometimes you just need.

You have to.

You can't tend to a garden 247 because you're going to kill everything.

You know, sometimes you got to let the garden, like, rest, let it breathe and let it.

Let it do its thing.

And that's the same thing for our bodies, our minds, our spirit, you know?

And so she was like, you know, it.

It's allowing me to be more gentle with myself, allowing me to be more respectful of myself and tend to myself in a way that nobody else will.

And I'm like, there you go.

Because nobody.

Nobody is going to take care of your garden in the way that you can, because no one's gonna know what it took to get your.

What's in your garden the way that you do.

You know, what's in your garden.

So no one's gonna be able to tend to those things in the way that you do.

So, like, her sharing that with me actually kind of brought me to tears because I was just like, I didn't.

I didn't.

I wasn't thinking about the impact that this book was gonna have on people.

But, you know, hearing things like that about just people kind of being able to, like, really check in with themselves and also check in with the people around them that they love and care for really just made me feel really good.

I'm like, okay, well, good.

Like, I'm glad.

I'm glad that you're getting that from it, you know, and it's allowing me to see the book in a different capacity because I'm like, oh, wow, okay.

You know, I didn't even.

Didn't even know that.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's.

It's so very interesting.

Art is so fascinating to me.

Like, the artist might have a different intention when they're writing the book.

When they're writing or making the art, whether it's even the music or a performance piece, they may have a different intention, but when he gets to the people who are supposed to engage with the art, people who are supposed to, you know, Connect with it in a certain way.

All of a sudden, it's a whole different reaction that they're having.

Yeah.

So for, for me, that's why I love, that's why I love art so much.

I feel like we can all go into something and experience it differently.

Yeah.

I have a curiosity and I don't know if pushing the boundaries a little bit and, you know, you are free to be like, you know what?

I can answer that.

But I'm curious about your garden.

Is there a guardian that you are letting rest right now and what is that guarding?

Also looking at you talk about the heaviest pieces of, heaviest parts of writing the book.

What were some of those areas in your life that you were tapping into that made that process very emotional for you?

If you're willing to share.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Honestly, I think my garden has just come from a resting period.

Listen, it's summer outside.

I'm in New York City.

It's.

It's warm, it's summer outside, so flowers are in full bloom.

And it's just like, yes.

And I also just celebrated a year of the book being published.

June 4th this year was.

Makes a year for the book being published.

So I was like, oh, like, yes, like, we're back.

However, prior to that, I felt like the, my relationship to the book was on a resting period because I was telling this to somebody the other day, you know, because everybody's like, oh, you should do this, you should do that.

I'm like, I, I, I hear you, but I need to take a break, take a step back.

Because it's like.

And I'm pretty sure any artist or any person can really relate to this.

When you pour so much of yourself into something, you have to take a step back from it once it's all completed.

Because it's just like, I just ran a marathon.

I need a break.

You know what I mean?

And that's kind of how I felt about it.

And so I think that was like a bit of a resting period for me where I was like, okay, the book is done.

The book is out.

I have, I'm letting the book do its thing.

I'm not really pushing it.

I'm not overly trying to, like, you know, do the things.

Like, all that stuff will come.

And like I said, this book is not going anywhere.

It's not going to vanish tomorrow.

So, like, I, you know, I have the time to promote it and push it, you know, as I need to.

And things will end, opportunities will present itself like this, you know, like, really happy that we Got a chance to connect because this is another opportunity for me to talk about the book in a very organic way that I didn't, you know, didn't expect or didn't see coming.

But I'm happy that it did, you know, because that's.

That's another thing about this book.

It's a seed planet that's going to continue to bloom and grow in ways, and it's going to grow itself, you know, so definitely just coming off a resting period from running that marathon and writing the book.

And it was, I'll say a marathon or like, it was exhausting just because, again, I talk about a lot of just heavy things in this book.

One of the heaviest things that I talk about is just like.

Like my childhood traumas, you know, some things that had I seen as a child that really impacted my mind and my spirit in a way that just kind of like, shut me down and like, made me kind of become really, really internal.

And it's like.

It's the first poem in the book called Carving Space that talks about, like, a domestic violence situation with my mother that I witnessed as like a toddler that was really, really brutal and really, really hard to process and understand as I got older.

Something that I just kind of pushed to the back of my mind.

Never really spoke to anybody about it.

Never really had conversations with my parents about it.

Nothing.

And it just was.

It was just back there growing, you know, and I didn't see.

I couldn't see the shadow that it started to cast over everything else because of that, you know what I mean?

And I talk about, like, my mental health, you know what I mean?

And like, my journey of navigating my mental health and what that looks like as a black queer man in America that is trying to be an artist and trying to make it and try to navigate this crazy society that we're living in right now.

And like, what that.

What.

What does.

What that doesn't even look.

What does that even look like?

You know what I mean?

For someone who comes from a community of people who didn't necessarily, like, support or believe or encourage therapy, you know, when therapy probably would have been helpful 10, 15, 20 years ago, you know, it's like you're.

You're constantly navigating struggles and pain and issues on your own, or you have your friend group who would.

Who are also going through the same stuff, you know, to support you, but you're not really getting to the root of the issue and treating it.

You just kind of like putting a band aid over It.

That band aid grows off because it's still growing, so it doesn't make, you know, there's no space for that band aid to stay.

And, you know, it becomes something that shows up in your romantic relationships, which I talk about that as well.

As far as, like, how my own trauma, my own mental health issues and my.

My own personal things showed up in my romantic relationships.

How people came into my life ready to love me, wanting to love me, and how I rejected that love, how I refused that love because I didn't know what love was.

I didn't know how to love myself, and I didn't know how to receive love from someone else who genuinely wants to be there for me.

And, you know, that caused me to miss out or not miss out, but, like, it just caused me to, like, have some really rocky relationships with people and hurt people along the way, you know.

Hurt people, Hurt people.

I talk about death, you know, like, losing people and grieving and what grieving means for.

For me and what that's like.

And, you know, it's.

It's something different for everybody.

But, like, my grieving process and how, like, my tears watered my garden because I understand that, like, when I lost someone, someone else came into the.

Someone like, else came into the family or something like that, like, you know, or like, no more flowers bloom or I got a new guardian, you know, I got a new ancestor.

I got a new angel to help protect me.

So, like, I talk about, like, things like that.

Mental health, my sexuality, just, like, being a black man in this.

In this country, like, relationship trauma, like, a lot of different things that are.

That were heavy to me, that I've.

That I carried for so long, the weight of them in the book, you know, that's why I tell people, listen, take your time as you walk through this garden, you know.

Okay.

Okay.

I'm excited.

Excited to dive in for sure.

And I don't mean that like, I'm excited about, you know, the heavy stuff you've shared, but, like, I feel like I'm excited to be able to engage with the art in a way that it would move me also, because we're also navigating the same things as well.

Navigating loss.

Also sexuality, being black and gay and from Africa, you know, and what that is like in itself.

And now living in the US and navigating that piece as well.

So I'm sure there are going to be some things that will resonate for sure, and I'm excited.

So that is What I'm excited to engage.

Just wanted to clarify.

Yeah, I'm happy to hear that.

It's something that I do mention in this book is that like, although we have our own individual gardens, we are all universal garden.

We all share the same garden.

Right.

And the more that I can tend to my corner, you can tend to your corner.

The entire universal garden gets better as we tend to our own corners.

You know what I mean?

And it's something that, like I was telling this to someone else who read the book and he's a, he's like maybe like 60s, mid-60s white man from Australia.

And he was reading my book and he was telling me like, wow, like, I relate to this in a lot of different ways, even though I'm not a black queer man.

You know, and I, you know, these are not my stories, but I relate to the general idea of the things that you're talking about in a way that is like very special.

And I'm like, well, if it's reaching across demographics like that, it confirms the idea that like, yeah, we are all in the same garden, just tending to our own little corners.

Yeah.

And also to even just add to that, like, I feel like people always tend to think that, oh, because it's a black queer story or it's a black queer experience, it's not universal.

I'm like that it is universal.

Like, it doesn't mean that we are, we're living in isolation or we're living away from, you know, reality.

We watch things, we engage with art or engage with content from a lot of, you know, non black, non queer people all the time.

And we connect with those stories as well.

And so people can connect with our stories because our stories are universal stories.

Our stories are human stories, you know, more than anything else.

Yes.

And that is where, and funny thing, that is where.

That is where our advocacy is.

You know, if you look at it away from the politicization of our sexuality and gender identities and whatnot, you know, it's a human story underneath it.

That's.

And so, yeah, we are humans first.

Yes, exactly, exactly.

That I want to talk about Bloom before we wrap up.

Okay.

Bloom is the short film that's going to be based on, on the book.

Tell us a little bit about Bloom.

What parts of the book are you bringing to film and when can we expect to see Bloom?

All right, so Bloom is a short film that I'm making.

It's currently in its post production stage.

It should be finished probably maybe July 1st.

I want to say I literally Just got back the last little draft where I was like, okay, final, final little tweaks and final little edits just to kind of make it like, you know, crispy clean.

But Bloom is something that I decided to do as a visual for the book because not everyone likes to read, you know, and not everyone has the time to actually pick up a book and read these days.

We're all so busy and we're in a visual age right now.

Everything is very visual and like, you know, social media, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll.

So I wanted to make something for, for people just to kind of have a visual for.

And in this, this short film, it started off as like a little, a little, an idea that was supposed to be like a 32nd little like advertisement, but it turned into like this seven minute short film.

And first I want to shout out to my, my director of photography and editor, John Roque, AKA John John.

It's only he and I working on this project and we have done some incredible work, I must say, for it to be a person production.

We've done some incredible work.

I also found Jon Jon on Threads.

So that's something like shout out to Threads again, the threads community threads.

I put a filler out there and he answered and you know, we had a meeting and we set it up and we've been like, we've been kicking it out, but yeah.

So it's basically a visual that touches on the idea that we can be fearless, right?

We can go after the things that we want.

We don't have to be afraid to make a way for ourselves.

You know what I mean?

In that process, you are going to have to confront some things about yourself though.

You're going to have to confront those insecurities, those self doubts, those worries, those anxieties, those fears about why you feel like you can't do the thing.

However, once you get past that, it's like an open.

It's.

The world is open for you.

So Bloom is basically just, it's a visual for the book just because again, we're in a visual age where everything we get, we have access to.

Most of things we have access to easily are visual things that we can just like scroll, swipe, whatever, watch, you know.

So I wanted to create a visual for people who, who are visual people and not necessarily wanting to pick up a book and actually read it.

So it's basically just a short film that is, you know, for all of the people, all of the artists, all the human beings who are wanting to do something, who are wanting to like Create something or switch careers, Go after a new goal, you know, accomplish something new, but have it.

There's something that is kind of pulling them back.

Whether it be a little doubt, a little fear, a little insecurity.

This, this film is to like, encourage everybody to go after what they want to understand that there's beauty in your garden.

And if you choose to tend to it, choose to water it, choose to nurture it, choose to let it rest, take care of it, beautiful thing, It'll give you beautiful things back, you know, So I basically am going through this journey of confronting myself saying, you know, like, I wanna, I wanna make art, right?

I wanna, I wanna be this thing and.

But, you know, I have my own doubts and insecurities about that.

And I go through this journey of hearing those voices and running from them and, you know, realizing that the only way out is through.

And so I get through this garden and I'm in this beautiful place now.

There's a little bit of acting, a little comedy, a little bit of dancing and some choreography.

There's obviously some spoken word and poetry involved into it.

And like I said, shout out to my director of photography, John Roque, AKA John John.

He's a wonderful editor, wonderful dp.

He.

He has helped me create some really beautiful visuals for the poem, for the, for the short film that I'm really, really excited about, really excited to share.

Like I said, we just did our.

The final draft was sent to me like maybe a week ago and I'm just like, really just polishing and fine tuning these little small things that I feel like could be a little bit better.

But I definitely feel like by July 1st, it'll definitely be available for people to see.

So.

Yeah, that's.

That's Bloom.

That's my short film Bloom coming out.

And I plan to actually do a lot more short films because we're in a visual age.

And I realized through the process of making Bloom that I really enjoy working through that medium of being on camera and making something that people can like kind of watch on their phones, on their computers, wherever, as opposed to having to come to a theater and see it, like, you know, live theater, shout out to live theater.

Still love live theater, but there's something about working in that other medium that I to enjoy.

So I'll have a lot more visuals coming as well and to just continue to support the book.

Yeah.

Awesome.

Awesome.

I'm excited to get to see Bloom and get to see the work that you all put into that for sure.

I have a bunch of rapid Fire questions for you before we let you go.

Okay, the first one is, what are the three songs that are currently on your playlist right now?

Three songs are currently my playlist.

Okay, wait.

There's a song that I found the other day that I've been really listening to.

It's by Nile Rogers.

It's called that's why I love you Now.

Rogers is from the band Chic.

You know that song?

I don't know if you guys know the song Freak out.

I just from that band.

This is a real old song, so that should let you know already what my music genre.

It's okay.

It's okay.

And I think.

I think he was on.

Was he on Renaissance?

Oh, he was on Cowboy Card.

He was one of the albums.

Yes.

Like, some work on one of Beyonce's one of the acts.

So.

Yeah, so that's.

That's definitely one of my.

On my list.

I also have to put Spin that by Karisha.

Yeah, everybody's on that right now.

Yes, yes.

It's been that.

That's the summer anthem.

And then the other one that I.

That is the song with.

It's the remix with Dababy Glorilla, and I'm missing.

I think Karisha's on it as well.

But it's the pop that.

Pop that, pop that thing.

Crazy love that.

So love, love, love it, love it.

What is a dream role that you want to play?

Dream role?

Like, doesn't matter which medium.

Like, theater.

It doesn't matter.

Any medium is fine.

My dream role is to be.

If Spike Lee brought School days to Broadway, I would want to be in School Days on Broadway as one of the, like, Gammas or something like that.

Okay.

Okay.

Well, yeah, I would want to be in School Days on Broadway.

I'm just gonna leave that at that.

Spike Lee.

From your lips to Spike Lee's ears.

You know?

What is the favorite poem on your book that you always return to?

Oh, I'm gonna say wildfires.

Yeah, I'm called Wildfires.

That is about a relationship that was, like, really, really intoxicating and really, really fiery and hot.

That, of course, eventually blew out.

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

What is the stage?

I know you've traveled around the world, you've performed in different places, but what is the stage that you're dreaming of, you know, stepping on and performing on?

Really, really bad.

Oh, these are such good questions.

A stage that I am dreaming to be on.

Carnegie hall will be nice.

Let's do Carnegie Hall.

Let's do Carnegie Hall.

Yeah, Carnegie.

Okay, cool.

Carnegie Hall.

Okay, who's your dream collaborator?

Dream collaborator?

I would love to collaborate with.

With Dochi.

Okay.

I know that's like, a bit of like.

But I. I really love Dochi.

I really.

I really like the way she expresses herself as an artist.

It's very, very unique and very individual, and I feel like, yeah, I think we would have a good time together.

Okay.

Shout out to.

Shout out to Dochi.

What's your dream travel destination?

Dream travel destination, probably.

I mean, let's say right now, let's go to Egypt.

I would like to go to Cairo.

You know, I'd like to check that out.

Yeah.

Okay, cool.

Finally, what is your guilty pleasure?

Cookies.

Okay.

I love cookies.

Oh, my God.

And not like, any, like, big fancy cookies from, like, you know, Levaine or anything like that.

I do basic cookies.

Basic duplex cookies, a little peanut butter cookie, a little, like, fudge mini stripes.

Love those.

But I love cookies.

I'd eat them way too much.

Awesome.

Awesome.

I have a. I have a question and kind of like a maybe like a request.

Will you.

Would you be open to doing one of your.

One of your, like, your favorite poems?

I think that as we wrap this episode up, I want you to leave the folks who are listening who are watching, I want you to leave them with a piece of your art, with a piece of this book that is impacting people that impacted you.

That was therapeutic for you as well.

So if you would, you know, love to perform something for us.

Sure.

That would be very appreciated.

Of course.

Of course.

So I want to start by showing the book here.

I know it's kind of backwards, but this is my book.

Abandoned Gardens Will Grow.

That's me on the COVID standing in the garden.

Bit of a dark, shadowy back here, but that's.

That's a beautiful artwork, by the way.

Thank you.

I designed it all myself.

Shout out to that.

Yeah.

Crazy, funny story behind that.

But anyway, this book taught me a lot.

Let me just say that, because I'd never published this book before, but it taught me a lot about publishing a book and what it takes to do it, from COVID design to formatting to bleeds to fonts, all kind of things like that.

So, yeah, this is the book Abandoned Artists.

So grow.

It's available on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and soon you'll be able to order directly from me on my website.

I just have to get a new shipment in because I just sold out of all my books on two days ago.

So.

Shout out to y'.

All.

So I will read a book.

I mean, a poem from the first section, which is the soil, the book is broken into four different sections.

The soil, the seeds, the water and the light, which all things that you need to grow in a garden.

Grow things in a garden.

And this poem is called Little Black Boy.

This is one of my favorite poems as well.

And it's just a poem that I wrote.

I wrote this poem during the pandemic.

I was at home in South Carolina and I was just sitting on the water and just, you know, we were all experiencing a very interesting time.

We were all having a very interesting time during the pandemic.

And I was just, you know, processing some things of myself and understanding who I am, where I am, where I wanted to go, and what this time meant for me.

So this is a bit of a love.

Little love letter to the little black boy inside of me.

And also know this cannot, this is not only just for little black boys.

This title is also very interchangeable.

It could be Little black girl, little black person, a little black queer, whatever you want to be.

You know what I mean?

But yeah, so this is a little.

This is Little Black Boy.

I haven't read this in a while, so this is going to be interesting.

Little black boy just be.

They don't know what you have, they can't see what you see.

Little black boy just be everything you've ever dreamed.

Everything in between, everything unseen.

Even when it seems as though you are not enough.

Stretch your arms wide, hold your head to the sky.

Let your light shine like the sun on Queen ocean's ever flowing life source where crystal clear reflections of divine energy mirror your melanated majesty.

Stand tall and stand proud in everything that you is and everything that you ain't.

They don't know what you have, they can't see what you see.

They be strong and wrong and trying to tell you who to be.

Walk like this, talk like that, act like this, don't cry like that, Feel like this, dress like that.

Love like this.

Don't love back, but love is who you are.

Love is how you know your existence is on purpose.

Your presence is a gift unwrap from everything they want you to be.

So just be everything you've ever dreamed.

Everything in between.

Because you little black boy are seen as king or queen or whoever you choose to be.

The only right way to exist is in your truth and honestly.

There's no need to hide or be scared of who you truly be.

Remember who you are is special.

No matter if they see it or not.

You should know that you've got everything you need and everything you dream will soon come to be they don't know what you have they can't see what you see they don't know who they are but they try to tell you who to be or who you can't or what you don't or how you'll never break free but little black boy, when I look at you I can't help but to see me and recall how this world works a little differently for little black boys like you and like me.

But all you need to do is just be everything you've ever dreamed Everything in between Because I know what you have last See what you can be.

That's little black boy.

Awesome.

Awesome.

Thank you so much, Will.

This has been such great conversation.

Thank you for leaving us with that very impactful poem.

That's something that we're gonna sit with.

I'm really excited about all that you have got going on, all that is coming to fruition, all of that is gonna be blooming from your garden over the next couple of years, but very appreciative of, of everything that you're doing.

So thank you so much.

Thank you.

It was a pleasure to be here.

Thank you for having me on your show.

You are a wonderful host.

This was a great time.

And thank you for just having given me an opportunity to talk about my work and to.

To connect with you.

And I look forward to doing it again at some point.

Awesome.

Awesome.

And if you have been watching or listening, I've been Speaking with Will Rem Jr.

I'm going to share all the information in the description, where to buy the book, how to follow on Instagram, the website, all of the things so you can stay connected.

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Thank you so much for watching.

I'm Harry Ta Till next time.

Odejuma Sam.