If your partner asked you to tell them how they should change, would that feel gratifying or scary? And how would you react? If that thought makes you uncomfortable, we think that’s the perfect time for a YOU-turn. And if that thought doesn’t make you uncomfortable…we think that’s ALSO a perfect time for a YOU-turn! That means turning back towards yourself and being curious about what hopes or fears are hidden underneath that reaction. That will help you get beyond the strategy – what either of you do or don’t do – to the underlying need, which is how do you want to feel in this relationship?

Quotes:

“It’s freaking hard to be human with other humans!”

“Where do we learn how to be relational? Where do we learn what connection is?”

“And so where do we form our protective strategies? It's inside of our early experiences. They're not just there. They're there because.”

“If things are going well, it doesn't mean that hard things don't happen. It means that you can turn towards each other when they do.”

This episode is brought to you by our amazing sponsor, The Academy of Therapy Wisdom. Jules is one of their many educators, and because you listen to us, the Therapy Wisdom team is offering a secret code to give you free access to one of Jules' 1 hour Wise Conversations. Just visit therapywisdom.com and use the discount code "WDMP."

Jules' new book is out now! Buy Setting Boundaries that Stick: How Neurobiology Can Help You Rewire Your Brain to Feel Safe, Connected, and Empowered wherever books are sold.

Share your questions with us at whydoesmypartner.com/contact

If you want to dive in deeper, consider attending our upcoming workshops. Learn more at whydoesmypartner.com/events

Welcome to the Why Does My Partner podcast.

2

I'm Jules.

3

I'm Vicki.

4

And I'm Rebecca.

5

We're your hosts.

6

We're also couples therapists

and messy humans bumbling through

7

our own relationships every

8

Vickey: day.

9

We met at a training, and our

secret sauce is that we, and our

10

partners, became fast friends.

11

Between us, we have more than 40

years of experience holding hard

12

relational questions with our clients.

13

We're going to bring those questions here.

14

Jules: And together, we're going to take

a stab at answering those questions.

15

This podcast is not a

substitute for couples therapy.

16

If something you hear in this podcast

stirs something deep within you

17

about your relationship, reach out

to a couples therapist in your area.

18

Rebecca: We also love to hear

your questions, so don't forget

19

to go over to whydoesmypartner.

20

com to leave a question of your own.

21

Here's today's question.

22

Jules: Welcome back.

23

I'm Jules.

24

I'm Vicki.

25

Rebecca: And I'm Rebecca.

26

Today's question, Why does my partner

want me to tell him how to change?

27

I don't want him to change for me.

28

Jules: Woohoo!

29

I love this question.

30

Vickey: I don't like this question.

31

Jules: Wait, did you say take the win?

32

She did.

33

Take the win.

34

She said take the win.

35

Same line.

36

Let

37

Vickey: him change,

let him change for you.

38

Who cares why he changes

as long as he changes.

39

Take it.

40

Yeah, but wait,

41

Jules: wait.

42

What if, if he changes

for me, he resents me?

43

What if, if he changes for

me, he won't really last?

44

Vickey: I don't want to say who cares.

45

Take the win today.

46

Worry

47

about the future in the future

when it happens, and I say

48

that as a total worry wart.

49

Take it.

50

Bye.

51

Take the wind today and

let him change for you.

52

This question gets me riled

up and I don't know why.

53

I can feel

54

Jules: that.

55

Rebecca: Ah.

56

Jules: What?

57

What's happening?

58

I don't know.

59

But there's something that I'm vibing

here that's like, I don't know.

60

I don't know what I'm vibing.

61

I'm vibing something that's

Like, towards me or towards

62

Vickey: the

63

Rebecca: question?

64

Both.

65

Towards you with the question.

66

Okay.

67

Vickey: Ooh.

68

So like, um, vibing, like I'm setting

you off or you totally agree with me?

69

Rebecca: No, I think, I, I, I think

there's something getting sticky in me.

70

Watching you say, take the win.

71

Oh,

72

Jules: that's interesting.

73

Uh huh.

74

Yeah.

75

Yeah, what's happening inside?

76

What does the sticky want us to know?

77

Rebecca: Oh,

78

there's, it's like

something's being unexplored.

79

There's something that, that, like,

I don't know which side it is,

80

but there's something that's like,

81

wait, there's, there's something about

the partner not Wanting him to change

82

for them and there's something about

like, what might he be struggling with

83

about change that like, if we're just

taking the win, we've lost an opportunity

84

to know something about both of them.

85

Mm hmm.

86

I'm getting, I'm getting stuck there.

87

I hear you.

88

Absolutely.

89

Vickey: Yeah.

90

Because my answer is very superficial.

91

Yeah.

92

Yeah.

93

Just like take it and do it.

94

And you're, you're wanting

to go deeper than that.

95

Yeah.

96

I think that makes sense.

97

Yeah.

98

Rebecca: Yeah, that kind of

sums me up in a lot of ways.

99

Jules: It does.

100

It does.

101

Yeah.

102

Look at

103

Vickey: that.

104

That was me.

105

You got stuck with

106

me.

107

Rebecca: Well, me too.

108

Vickey: I do have very superficial

answers, and then I go deeper usually.

109

You do.

110

Yep.

111

That's both of us.

112

You do.

113

That's what you do.

114

I do frequently have the

115

Jules: reaction, though.

116

Well, I'm just noticing with this

question, this partner actually

117

does want to know how to change

this partner's asking, Hey,

118

Rebecca: tell me, tell me

119

Jules: how to change.

120

Tell me how to change for you.

121

And then we're getting this

question of, Oh, I don't want.

122

Him to change for me.

123

So that's, that's an interesting question.

124

And it's like, uh, uh, when I was

going back and forth with you, Vic,

125

at the beginning, I was like, oh,

yeah, well, these are the, these are

126

the things when I, when I hear this

come into my office, these are the

127

things that people say, well, if they

change for me, they won't mean it.

128

If they change for me, it won't stick.

129

If they change for me, they'll resent me.

130

Yeah, that's what I hear too.

131

Yeah, yeah.

132

So there's a lot of worry, but I, I see

how activating this question is for you.

133

Mm hmm.

134

And I'm, I'm really

feeling curious about it.

135

I'm so mad.

136

You're so mad.

137

Where, and

138

Vickey: I literally, I'm mad.

139

That's what I, I, yeah, you're

140

Jules: mad.

141

Rather than ask, why are you mad?

142

Could you ask?

143

It's like, almost like you're

going to find the mad inside.

144

Wonder like, oh, what's making you mad?

145

Well, I found

146

Vickey: the mat and it's in my feet.

147

Oh, great.

148

My toes are curling.

149

Jules: Great.

150

Toes curling.

151

So can you be with your toes

curling and ask them, ooh,

152

what's pissing you off here?

153

What's making you so mad?

154

Um.

155

Vickey: Well, I have an answer didn't

come, but I see a, um, it's going to

156

be so weird for some of our listeners.

157

There, it's, there's a little

girl and she's stomping her feet.

158

That's why my toes are curling because

159

Jules: it's stomping the feet.

160

Stomping the feet.

161

Perfect.

162

And so you're, you did get an answer.

163

You got an answer of a little

girl stomping her feet.

164

I want him to

165

Vickey: change for me.

166

Oh, gotcha.

167

That's why I'm mad.

168

You do want him to change for you.

169

Because I do want him to change for me.

170

Gotcha.

171

So, for

172

Jules: some of our listeners,

you are going to want your

173

partner to change for you.

174

It'll show you that you matter

to them, or it'll show you that

175

relationships are important.

176

Vickey: For others,

it's going to feel scary

177

Jules: for our partner to change for us,

like those other questions that come in.

178

Yeah.

179

So, so one, if you're asking a question

like this in your partnership, I

180

have a U turn curiosity for you.

181

Oh, well, what's scary or bad thing

would happen if they changed for you?

182

What's scary or bad thing would happen if

they changed for them instead of for you?

183

Right.

184

So I'm, I'm just curious about like,

Ooh, it'll help you get to the meaning.

185

What is so, um, important about them

doing it a particular way for you?

186

Because probably what's going on is

this is a strategy versus need issue.

187

Can I break that down for a second?

188

Is that okay?

189

I was just going to say,

please do break that down.

190

Yeah.

191

So a lot.

192

Yeah.

193

Yeah.

194

A lot of times people come in locked

into a strategy in order to meet a

195

need they may not even be aware of.

196

Right.

197

Like, I want a date night.

198

Why won't he give me a date night?

199

I want a date night.

200

Not even I want a date night,

but I want a date night, and I

201

want it to be planned by you.

202

Oh, that's right.

203

Yes.

204

And I want you to pick one of the, one

of the, um, restaurants we went to in

205

the first years of our dating so we could

go back in time because I have a need

206

to reconnect through reminiscence right

now, and I have a need to feel what it

207

felt like when we were younger together.

208

But I don't want to tell

209

Rebecca: you all that, because I really

want you to read my mind, and I want

210

you to know this, because that's how

I will feel known by you, and that

211

we're really intimately connected.

212

So if I have to tell you all

this, it's negating all of that.

213

Yeah, it

214

Vickey: doesn't count.

215

Jules: Yeah, right, right, right.

216

Now, I think we'll explore that even

deeper in the next episode, because I

217

saw the question we're going to do next

week, and I'm super excited about it.

218

But, but to stay here right now, I'm

wondering, like, if we could just

219

notice, ooh, wanting him to change.

220

for some other reason than

for you, is a strategy.

221

And I'm curious what needs get

met if you get what you wanted.

222

What needs don't get met if

you don't get what you want.

223

So if you want him to change

for some other reason than you,

224

Rebecca: what he's going to

change for a reason other than me.

225

Mm hmm.

226

Then I get relieved I'm not the burden.

227

Ooh.

228

Jules: Right?

229

Do we talk about what a pain

in the ass relationships are?

230

Every day.

231

Oh my gosh.

232

It's

233

Rebecca: almost like I've gotten

to a point, like married for

234

17 years together, even longer,

I've gotten to a point now where.

235

If it's not hard, I'm

wondering, what's the matter?

236

Jules: Totally.

237

Rebecca: But that doesn't,

it's like, because

238

Jules: Not in a bad way.

239

We don't mean this bad

240

Rebecca: way.

241

Right, right.

242

Yeah, no, no.

243

But like, the hard is

like, it's human ing.

244

Mm hmm.

245

It is freaking hard to be

human with other humans.

246

Oh,

247

Vickey: yeah.

248

Yeah.

249

Jules: Because the truth is, you, like,

want different stuff at the same time all

250

the time, and they're breathing weird,

and, I don't know, we're just like,

251

Rebecca: He literally

blinked, blinked long today,

252

Vickey: and I was like, I know

that face, what was that blink?

253

What was that blink?

254

Jules: What was that blink?

255

And then he's going, why are

you such a pain in my ass?

256

And you're going, well, I'm a

joyful pain in your ass, right?

257

I get, like,

258

Rebecca: you finally get that really

great kiss, you know, like, the one

259

with, like, just the right, Yeah.

260

And then you smell garlic.

261

Jules: Totally.

262

Vickey: The truth is,

263

Jules: I was, I was talking with

somebody the other day about this

264

when, when somebody was saying,

well, oh, I don't want to be.

265

a burden to them.

266

And I was like, but people

are burdens to each other.

267

I think about it, even like with my dog or

with my kiddo, I was talking to somebody

268

about, well, this person has cats.

269

I was like, aren't your cats a

little bit of a pain in the butt?

270

Like, of course, of course they are.

271

They

272

Vickey: are.

273

But like, I'm, um,

274

Jules: Isn't there

275

Vickey: something different about

a peer to peer relationship and not

276

being a burden on each other versus a

277

Jules: child or a pet?

278

I'm gonna hit the brakes hard on that one.

279

I think, no, because

280

Vickey: I

281

Jules: think, like, my existence,

it costs the world around me a bit.

282

Of course.

283

How so?

284

I'm breathing air.

285

I eat food.

286

I take up space.

287

I want different stuff than my partner.

288

Like, okay.

289

Yeah.

290

Like, I mean, like in a big way, like

the amount of people on this planet

291

is a bit of a burden on the planet.

292

Let's just be clear.

293

Like, We are burdens to each other,

and I think pretending that's not,

294

or wishing that it wasn't, ends up

in this underlying pain that can end

295

up in feeling like not belonging, or

too muchness, or like, like twisting

296

ourselves into making less of a footprint.

297

And I want us to be conscious of how

we're affecting people, but I don't

298

want us to pretend it's possible not to.

299

You know, I was

300

Rebecca: working, I was working with

someone in an intensive recently and

301

something that showed up was how much,

um, appeasement was like a strategy

302

that protects to, um, make, make

the other person, like if the other

303

person's stuff can take up more space.

304

Mm hmm.

305

And they are focused then on appeasing the

other person and, is it okay if I do this?

306

Is it okay if I do this?

307

There's no room for them to

just say, here's what I need.

308

Mm hmm.

309

Mm hmm.

310

Right?

311

So, so the appeasement

then becomes the strategy.

312

Yeah.

313

And it's covering over the need.

314

Jules: Yeah.

315

Yeah.

316

Which must serve them in some way.

317

Vickey: It

318

Rebecca: does.

319

Totally protective.

320

Yeah.

321

Right?

322

Because like, what, what shows up as

I'm doing this longer form work with

323

folks in these intensives, what's

coming is that there's really a, um,

324

a core unmet need underneath there.

325

Oh, of course.

326

Right?

327

And once we can uncover that and learn,

like, oh, how do we, like, really

328

lovingly turn towards ourselves and

show up for those parts of us, then it

329

actually isn't such a big deal anymore.

330

Like, because the, there's

relief that's given to the part

331

that needed that protection.

332

And then it's actually not

such a big deal anymore to make

333

those changes and make those of

334

Jules: it.

335

Right.

336

And I was thinking to.

337

About, um, this question, oh, why does

my partner want me to tell him how I,

338

how to change, how to change for me?

339

It may be he's wanting to show you how

much you matter, you matter, how much you

340

Rebecca: matter.

341

Like we actually influence each other.

342

Vickey: Totally.

343

And that's

344

Jules: a good thing.

345

I love being married.

346

So being in a longterm or

not, it doesn't have to be

347

married, but being in a longterm

relationship, my partner knows me.

348

Rebecca: Both of you.

349

Totally.

350

Right?

351

Maybe we've influenced

our long term listeners.

352

Right.

353

Jules: And, and I hope my partner

influences me and helps me see

354

stuff I have blind spots to.

355

And I hope I, he and I influence him and

help him with stuff he has blind spots to.

356

So I think there's like a gift in here.

357

Yeah.

358

About, of course we change for each other.

359

And isn't that great, because

that's part of our growth.

360

And I could never have done it for me.

361

I do it for you, because I didn't need it.

362

I wouldn't have

363

Rebecca: even known that it

was something that was needed.

364

I had no idea.

365

If

366

Jules: you didn't show me.

367

I didn't know I was

impacting the world that way.

368

It's so interesting to

369

Vickey: hear you both talking about it,

because what I hear out of both of you

370

is such positivity around the topic.

371

It is.

372

This could just be me.

373

This question, though, had, in

my mind, had like a negative.

374

Tinge to a flavor to it.

375

Well there was a worry in it, right?

376

Yeah.

377

But actually managed to flip it.

378

Exactly.

379

It's interesting you guys talk about, I

380

Rebecca: don't why if, if like, I don't

feel like I'm flipping the question.

381

'cause I feel like if the person

who didn't even know who was asking

382

it, were here with me right now.

383

Mm-Hmm.

384

. It would be like, alright, so

they're saying Why does my partner

385

want me to tell him how to change?

386

I don't want him to change for me.

387

Mm hmm.

388

Right?

389

So, so the first part that I'm

curious about is the for me part.

390

I don't want him to change for me.

391

But if, if we unpack that part and we

figure out like, why is that, what's

392

the protective strategy in there?

393

Right?

394

Like

395

Jules: maybe I don't want to be a

burden to him or I don't want to feel

396

like he can't be himself with me.

397

Mm hmm.

398

Vickey: Right.

399

I won't stick later because he only did it

400

Rebecca: for me.

401

Or he'll resent me, right?

402

Yeah.

403

Mm hmm.

404

And, and so then if we come, if we

unpack that stuff and we come back

405

to the first part of the question,

which isn't really about why does

406

my partner, but it's like my partner

wants me to tell him how to change.

407

Jules: Mm hmm.

408

So, so now And then I'm

curious with the partner.

409

Yeah.

410

There it is.

411

Oh.

412

Yeah.

413

What's important for you about

knowing how to shift to make

414

this other person's world better?

415

To make your partner's world better?

416

Mm hmm.

417

Mm hmm.

418

What's important for you about that?

419

And it may be that you find out that you

matter, or maybe you find out that, uh,

420

he doesn't want to be a burden to you.

421

And he doesn't get to have

that either, by the way.

422

Everybody is a burden to

everybody a little bit.

423

You know what's striking?

424

In like a joyful, lovely way.

425

Rebecca: What's striking me about

this, as I'm sitting with the

426

question a little longer, is like

such tenderness towards the protective

427

parts of the one asking the question.

428

Because I'm, I'm noticing how many

people who come into my office who

429

seek out intensives who are working

with all of us, right, are coming in

430

with these really like, where do we

learn how to be relational, right?

431

This is a question I'm

asking all the time.

432

Where do we learn how to be relational?

433

Where do we learn what connection is?

434

What did we see?

435

Right.

436

What did we experience?

437

Mm hmm.

438

What did we go through?

439

And so where do we form

these protective strategies?

440

It's inside of those early experiences.

441

They're not just there.

442

They're there because.

443

Mm

444

Jules: hmm.

445

Yeah.

446

So it could be like That's

a great way to phrase it.

447

I watched my mom ask my dad to change

for her and he could never do it right.

448

And she was only complaining all the time.

449

And I just don't want a relationship like

450

Rebecca: that.

451

Or even, things weren't okay for me

when I was a kid and I kept asking

452

for what I needed and everyone

just told me I was too much.

453

Jules: Right.

454

And now I don't want to be too much.

455

I don't want to drive anyone away.

456

So I really need to not say out

loud what I need, because I learned

457

that was scary and bad and would

leave me, end up with me left alone.

458

Mm

459

Rebecca: hmm.

460

Yeah.

461

And, and here, if your partner is actually

going to change and want to know, want

462

your input on that, then this other

crazy scary thing is going to happen.

463

Because now you're actually having

the possibility of a relationship

464

where your protective system takes a

465

Jules: rest.

466

Oof.

467

Which is vulnerable.

468

Yeah.

469

Yeah.

470

Yeah.

471

And we don't want to miss how

scary that can be and vulnerability

472

by its nature is scary.

473

We're not going to have, well, how

can it, I, sometimes I have people

474

come in and they'll ask me, Oh,

Jules, how can you help me, um, feel

475

safe, um, while I'm being vulnerable?

476

I'm like, Oh, that's not a thing.

477

Vickey: Oh, yeah.

478

Not a thing.

479

Oh, yeah.

480

Jules: I can't do that because

vulnerability by nature is scary because

481

there's, there's a risk involved.

482

Rebecca: Yeah.

483

It's like when people ask me, how do I set

boundaries without disappointing people?

484

Oh,

485

Jules: you don't.

486

You don't do that.

487

You don't do that.

488

That's not a thing.

489

That's not a thing.

490

Yeah.

491

That's not a thing.

492

Um, yeah.

493

Yeah.

494

So there's this, I'm, I'm, as I'm sitting

with this, you know, what I'm thinking

495

about is how our listeners could take

this question, if it's a question your

496

relationship is holding and turn it

into a growth conversation between you.

497

Yeah.

498

And some of that would be being really

curious with each other about, Oh, well,

499

if you got the thing you're looking for

strategy, Oh, what would change for you?

500

What would get met?

501

That's not met.

502

Now you just dropped down to your need.

503

You could also do it.

504

Ooh, what's scary?

505

Your bad thing might happen if it doesn't

happen that way, if it happens this

506

other way that you're trying to avoid.

507

Oh, you're going to drop down

into those tender spaces.

508

So this could lead to a really beautiful

depth conversation where you get to know

509

each other a little bit better and find

out what's true for your partner and, and

510

maybe share some vulnerability yourself.

511

I'm kind of hoping you do.

512

Yeah, that would be great.

513

It sounds wonderful

the way you phrased it.

514

I put hard things in pretty packages.

515

You do.

516

Vickey: That's very true.

517

There's my pretty bow on that, but it's

518

Rebecca: true.

519

But it's, it's actually because I think

as, as we get deeper into like, what

520

does it mean to be in relationship?

521

What is connection really?

522

What, what are Our partnerships, right?

523

It's, it's like, it's like a sandbox to

work through the hard things together.

524

And here you have a partner who like,

maybe if things are going well, it doesn't

525

mean that hard things don't happen.

526

It means that you can turn

towards each other when they do.

527

Yeah.

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Jules: Right.

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That is such a great

space to end on, I think.

530

It doesn't mean hard things don't

happen, it means you can turn

531

towards each other when they do.

532

Yeah.

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Mm hmm.

534

Rebecca: All right.

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Take care, y'all.

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Bye bye.

537

Bye.

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Jules: Bye.

539

That wraps up this week's episode.

540

Join us again next week for another.

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Why does my partner?

542

We hope

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Rebecca: that you continue to

listen wherever you get your audio

544

and that you'll follow the show

545

Vickey: to go deeper.

546

Join us at one of our workshops.

547

You'll find our next date

at why does my partner.

548

com.

549

Jules: Did you know, you

can ask us your questions.

550

Vickey: Your questions are relational

551

Rebecca: gold.

552

Go to why does my partner.

553

com to either write in or record your

554

Jules: question for a future episode.

555

And here's some gratitudes.

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Thanks to Al Hubberman, our sound editor

and podcast production magic maker.

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Vickey: Thanks to every one of you who has

joined us for our workshops in the past.

558

We've learned so much from all of you

559

Rebecca: and thanks to everyone who's

reviewed the show and Apple podcasts.

560

Your reviews help others to find the show.

561

Jules: Take care of each other

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Vickey: best you can.

563

See you next

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Jules: time.