Is restoring a classic painting ever worth it? According to horror movies the answer is resoundingly "no," as you can plainly see in acclaimed director Federico Zampaglione's newest festival hit, "The Well!" Zampaglione (@Tiromancino) was kind enough to join us and talk about his love letter to the Italian cinema that shaped him, how he married a slow-burn psychological descent with shocking moments of brutality, the fortune of casting Lauren LaVera just as Terrifier fans christened her horror royalty, and working with his own daughter to produce one of the most haunting performances from a child actor in a while.

THIS IS THE WATER AND THIS IS THE WELL. CLICK HERE AND DESCEND.

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I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.

Groovy.

Welcome to Box Office Pulp, your one-stop podcast for movies, madness, moxie, and today...

I can't think of an M word.

Moderating. Moderating a discussion.

Oh, that was terrible. I'll stick with it.

Moderating a discussion with director, writer, fame musician, carpenter...

I actually don't know about that last one.

Federico Zampaglione.

I recently did a solo episode reviewing his newest film, The Well, if you haven't listened to that.

Turns out he enjoyed my babbling thoughts and wanted to have a chat.

So, Jamie checked out the flick herself, equally loved it, and joined me.

I did my best to edit out some of the more spoilery parts from our chats,

but fair warning, in case you want to go in, like, totally blind,

it's still only playing in festivals currently, but hopefully we'll get word on distribution soon enough.

So if you are holding off on wanting to listen to it, hopefully you won't be waiting that long.

For now...

Enjoy our chat with Federico, with maybe some added cameo by some of the other cast.

Take it away, past Mike and Jamie.

So, we're here talking with Federico Zampaglione, who I just, of course, did a review for his movie, The Well, here just a few weeks ago.

I know you just got back from Streamfest, where you had, like, the North American premiere.

So what was that experience like?

I couldn't imagine, like, a more appropriate venue for that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah, that was a very great experience.

I mean, the film was screened at China's theater, this legendary theater, Quentin Tarantino's favorite cinema.

And, yeah, it was in the Streamfest festival.

And, yeah, very great experience.

I was a little nervous, actually, because you never know how the audience...

will react to something, you know, especially when, you know, it's a different culture.

And we, when we have been at Streamfest, we screened before the film at CJES, a Spanish festival, and the reaction was very enthusiastic.

So I was kind of nervous to see, I mean, the American audience reaction, but I have to say, that night, I have been...

I was very happy.

I mean, in the theater, the atmosphere was very...

was great.

People was reacting, yelling, jumping, you know, participating a lot at this film.

And it was a big satisfaction for me.

What kind of, like, feedback have you gotten from that screening?

Oh, yeah, because we had so many very good reviews, including yours.

And that is something that I, director, always...

is a little nervous about, because you spend so many time working on something you love.

And then you have to face reality and see what people really think about what you did, especially experts.

People who love the genre, and so they are competent.

So I was a little, you know, let's see what happened.

And the reviews, I mean, started coming out.

And they were very good.

So finally, now I'm feeling a little bit more relaxed.

I can get back to my life.

And yeah, it's always a very important moment.

Because every time you release something, the first reactions are the ones that will, you know, will stay for the entire process.

I mean, if the reaction is bad, it's very difficult.

It's very difficult to change the trend, the mood.

And so I'm used to pay a lot of attention to the first reactions to something I do.

It can be a record, an album, a concert, or maybe a movie.

But I can tell now, I mean, you see some happiness, some enthusiasm,

that it means that the movie will probably be, you know, a fan favorite.

Or maybe something that people like.

Yeah.

It's been really fun to watch the reactions coming out of a Screamfest

and start to, like, build up a little bit of steam over the last just week.

Whenever I get a movie across my desk that I really, like, I just get really attached to it

whenever I really find something unexpected that I hadn't really quite heard of before.

So I've been really, like, paying attention to all.

All the news and stuff coming out of it.

So I do think it's going to have some really interesting legs

as it has more premieres and more of a release.

Something that, just to kind of talk about the movie a bit,

something that really clicked with me and what really caused me to, like, fall in love with the flick,

I see a lot of throwback, like, Italian horror films.

They lean very heavily into Giallo, even if the plot isn't Giallo.

You know, somehow.

Somehow the tropes, the camera work, that's where it all comes from.

And I find there's a lot more to Italian horror than just Giallo, you know?

Yeah.

What's fantastic about The Well for me is it feels and operates just like a classic Italian horror film.

You know, Lenzi and Fulci, as I mentioned in my review, kept occurring to me.

But even Bava, all these greats that did.

These folkloric, gothic horror films, you know, Fulci and all that, skewing harder on the gore.

But when you set out to make this, was part of the goal capturing that aura?

You know what?

I grew up with, you know, a certain kind of films.

I mean, my passion for the horror starts when I was, like, six years old,

because my dad took me to the amusement park in Rome.

And in that place,

we used to have a very scary and dark, how do you go with that?

It's just like haunted houses, but it was more like a tunnel.

And we were with little, you know, it's, yeah, it's like the dungeon.

It's a little bit like the haunted house on Halloween.

It was, you know, the ghost house, just to understand.

And we went there by this little train.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There was a train crossing, you know, inside of this tunnel with a lot of scary stuff.

And they were completely new to me, like witches, zombies, monsters in general.

So I remember coming out of this tunnel and I was like, what the hell was that?

I didn't even know what was it because it was the first time I was facing the horror.

And so, but I was frightened.

in it for sure but at the same time i was feeling i remember so well i mean the feeling that i had

coming out of this tunnel and i asked to my dad oh let's do it again and then from that moment on

i just wanted like a christmas gift or for my birthday all the action figures of the horror

icons like the vampire frankenstein the mummy uh the the werewolf and all you know the the icons

from the 70s and that that was the the moment when i catch up with uh the horror and from that moment

on we never split i mean i've always been a fan of the italian horror and i remember being very

young and going to the theaters to watch dario gentile's film

lamberto bava's films and yeah i mean the the feeling to get terrified inside of a movie theater

is something that really um i really love that and but i didn't expect to became a horror director

myself because my career was going very well very very well as a musician so at one point in my

career i did

the

the

first film which was like a dark comedy and i realized when i was on set that i didn't like to

shoot the comedy moments but i loved to shoot the dark moments and so i told to myself okay if i

have to make another film it should be a horror film otherwise i don't want to do it again and

that's what happened i mean in 2009 i did this first horror film and i was like oh my god i'm

going to make another film which was shadow i don't know if you have seen that have you seen it

i was actually i was actually planning to watch it this morning but i wasn't able to um i'm really

looking forward to seeing that though oh yeah i mean that was you know a combination between

survival horror and a little bit of torture porn i had a very affected villain a skinny guy

you can check the the trailer on the internet it's an interesting film that was released

in the early 90s and it's a very interesting film and i was like oh my god i'm going to watch

uh all over the world including the united states it was released by a ifc channel

and it was pretty successful in the independent horror community

then i did a couple of years later uh an homage to the italian giallo and that was a real homage

maybe too much of an homage so i mean some people liked it because it was a uh you know

just like uh uh an italian giallo from the 70s the 80s early 80s some other people didn't like it

for the same reason because it was too much of an homage but um and now i'm back on the horror horse

with the well and uh yeah it has been crazy because in italy we normally don't make movies

like the well i mean they normally produce other kind of films

well it's definitely a very different kind of horror film from what you'd normally maybe expect

from the premise like one thing that really shocked me was the juxtaposition between this

very slow burn high strangeness type story and this very intense very brutal and very violent

story i'm i'm curious was there was there something you were going for there and

kind of putting those two parallel tones next to each other like one story about people having to

be very pragmatic and make very difficult decisions and one story about someone dragging

their feet and holding on to the past yeah exactly because as a fan when i watch a supernatural movie

sometimes i miss a little bit the gory part and i say okay this is supernatural you have a presence

you know creeping around and maybe some

nice jump scares but normally you don't have the gore you know the blood and so and then it's true

also the the opposite you know when you have a slasher movie it's normally all about killing

people and not making building up a mystery or a supernatural you know trope you know what i mean

it's just that they normally go separately they don't catch up you know

the same movie so this time when i was figuring the story in my head i say why not making a movie

that connects you know different kind of fears that can be intriguing for because there's some

kind of a supernatural story and on another level just like going to hell the more you go you dig

down the more you say snow is dark and it's scary and so why not having a different levels of fear

so you can be you know really creeped out by the the painting and all the i mean the mansion story

involving the the restorer so giving some kind of a freaky nightmares you know putting the audience

in an uncomfortable mood because of the mystery and something that is getting back slowly uh while

the the painting is revealed to the audience but at the same time you know you're not going to be

walking alone you can see the figure you're playing the man gaze or you know play the same

action

around and and the way you look like they're doing things that they don't and so uh so the

interview can have a little bit of discontent i mean i want something very strong that can

really shock you and uh you know at times kind of uh disturb you so that's why we decide to put

write the story this way to somehow to explore different level of fears oh they linked to the

title it did not occur to me that is that was really great oh thank you yeah i i really liked

how they because they kind of added to one another this the creeping terror upstairs and

just kind of like knowing that this is happening underneath it all it created like this impending

sense of doom and terror to what's happening above so it made it feel like it was heading

towards something horrible the whole time which i really enjoyed yeah we didn't want to give too

much rest to the audience once the story is started and you connect with the characters

we just wanted to be rentless you know bang bang bang bang something that keep coming and keep

haunting you um

because as an horror fan after watching a lot of movies over the years i love when a movie

doesn't give you i mean time to i mean to chill down you know when the whole film keep going and

going and going until the very end so even with the editing we paid a lot of attention to

have always a great a good pace to eliminate all the slower moments and

to

to keep the the spectator on the edge of his seat that was the goal editing doesn't get

highlighted enough but i think uh the well is a really a good example of how incredible editing

can be because i i think you hit the perfect balance between those two the exact moments

they cut back and forth and the the ramping up of the violence happening um in the dungeon i i

was really well done and along with the ramping up of the kind of dream sequences and how

foreboding that was getting one thing going to the since we're on the subject of the dungeon

i tell me more about the uh the harlequin dungeon keeper yeah because there's there's so much like

environmental storytelling with that character but he he kind of like remains this off-kilter

enigma and i'm so interested in like the creation of the dungeon and the way that the dungeon

of that character like to know a little bit more uh first of all uh the guy who plays the jailkeeper

is an amazing drama actor i mean he was so um he got like 60 pounds to play that character he was

eating all day long at the point that at one point i i told him come on man that's that

was quit eating

you're

going to get much weight so it can be dangerous please but he was so into the character that on

set it was incredible to see because he was not speaking at all to anybody just trying to

keep this very dark and disturbed mood all the time and um i think that character is just like

a servant a guy who's willing to be appreciated

by the upper class who's represented by the duchess and the other members of this

you know cause but at the end of the day is he's just the one who's doing the dirty job

that nobody really wants to do and he just tries to do the best that he can i mean he's just trying

to do it at his best and um yeah he's probably willing to have more contacts with the other

members of this cult but they just want him to do what he does you know and he's another prisoner

at the end of the day in fact at the very end i wanted to show this guy even in his you know

i mean when he sees the monster out of the well it's just like a god coming toward him something

that he have been working for feeding him for years and celebrating this creator

i wanted to make a special kind of a villain because you can see that he's a villain he's

brutal he's violent but at the same time he's kind of a sad yeah he there when he meets the

meets the monster there is a sense of uh i'm getting a release finally almost

he had a very minotaur quality to him like a very like a kind of a a mythological monster in a way

yeah exactly because he was very affected by the monster because you can see how much he cares for

this monster the way he handled this bucket you know when he takes out the bucket from you know

and raise the bucket you know i just like something you know it's a holy god you know

and so at the very end the serbian you know gives himself away to the monster just like

do whatever you want to do to me your god i'm just a serbian so i can sacrifice myself for you

whatever you want to make you do with me you know and that was like a mystical moment in which i

mean i wanted sometime in this film should affect that the real monster is not a monster but it's

human beings you know just like i mean if you think about the ending that it's something that

shows that people can be

way more evil the you know monsters or creators and stuff and so there is a little bit of a

metaphor of humanity you know as long as they can make money out of something they will completely

change and turn themselves into monsters as long as it works money-wise yeah i've been kind of like

racking my brain a little bit and going like okay there's

there's a little bit more of what this movie is like pulling towards in regards to like you said

humanity and that makes a lot of sense it is very much a story of the greed of of humanity um because

i've been i've been very um into like the i love stories about immortality uh but like sad stories

about immortality i always think of like that scene in uh shadow of the vampire or one of her

socks nosferatu where the vampire is uh lamenting his death and he's like oh my god i'm so sorry i'm

being immortal and how it's you know not exactly all it's cracked up to be but um art restoration

i think is a a fun topic for horror films uh because i'm thinking of like don't don't look

now or something um it has like that modern hand touching history sort of feeling like reaching

through time there's a lot of philosophical connotations to that so what kind of like

what role was that in the creation of the film particularly with

immortality because that obviously the the lamentation of immortality is very important

to the film oh yeah of course because it because of immortality that they do what they do the old

time and so yeah that is a concept that it's inside everybody you know because at one point

of your life you start wondering why one day you will have to go and what if i can be here forever

i mean this is a question that probably is inside everybody's mind at one point especially you know

maybe when you reach a certain age no and you start wondering wow this is not forever and so

let's find a way to stay here forever but at one point you want you want to look good i mean you

don't want to stay forever as a very old person and then

so you start finding a way to keep yourself young forever you know that is probably a common

uh you know subject in a lot of films but i tried to show it in this film in different ways because

while the duchess is happy with her staying so young we can say the same for her daughter

who's suffering a lot to seek in a very young uh you know

way to find her some zawsze value yeah she's doing so good and now she's not

inetümüz

i can tell you how much connection you make when you're talking about life as a president and maybe three or five

seasons the children's body and i know she's prevented to have a normal life to have relationship

with people their age and so she's forced to be a teenagers forever that is one of the worst thing that can happen

because her mom was in the way of letting her grow.

And that is something that is very mean.

So the same thing can be great for someone

and can be a nightmare for someone else,

because maybe it's more sensitive.

She just wants to live her life just like a normal person.

So that was this kind of a difference,

how you can handle in two completely different ways the same thing.

Immortality can be great, but can be horrible, can be a nightmare,

can be one of the worst nightmares,

because you see everybody dying around you.

You will never make some kind of experiences

that come from years and passing.

And so that was a different position.

Just to give two different ways of seeing the same thing.

Yeah, there's a sad emptiness to it,

because they're immortal, but they give up every other aspect of life.

It's just kind of like living in this old mansion.

Yeah, for her mom, for the Duchess, it's enough.

Anyway, I mean, it's a simple story,

but if you go inside of the story,

there are a lot of different angles to know.

Maybe, yeah, we were trying to make a very simple story,

but with some differences between the characters.

The Restorer has a very bad relationship with her dad,

and she's kind of obsessed.

I mean, she wants to satisfy, to make her dad happy,

but at the same time,

she can feel...

a certain level of competition between her and her dad,

and the expectations are very high.

And so, I mean, even that mood,

having, you know, a father that don't really appreciate you

and is always tough,

it puts you in a very uncomfortable position.

If it's something that, you know,

it was the first time that she was all along

doing such an important job.

Yeah, and so, I mean, we were...

We worked psychologically to make the characters believable.

And I have to say that working...

We have been working with great actors.

I mean, Lauren Lavera is definitely

an incredible young screen queen.

I mean, she's bound to be...

to do a lot.

Incredibly, yeah.

Yeah, she's very sensitive.

She's very mature.

She's very physical.

She's very...

She's very psychological.

I mean, she's a very talented actress,

and it was a pleasure to share, you know, creativity.

And apart from the screenplay,

we have been working so much, you know,

on this character when we were on set.

Because maybe you write the story,

and it works on paper.

Then you have to translate, you know,

whatever you've written into real actions.

And we had a great time,

because she had no problem with sometimes

to let herself go, improvise a little bit,

and find new solutions that were more credible on the screen.

And also, the Duchess, Claudia,

she's a legendary actress.

She did, like, 80 movies in Italy.

Claudia Gerini was also in some big American films,

like The Passion of the Christ,

or maybe John Wick.

Number two, she's very experienced.

She's a great actress,

and they got along very quickly with Lauren.

They found very quickly a great feeling,

you know, working together.

Then I got my daughter on set,

playing Julia.

Linda, the teenager girl, is my daughter.

And the weird fact,

I had my daughter with Claudia,

which is my former wife, Claudia Gerini,

the actress that plays the Duchess.

So we were some kind of, you know, family on set.

And, yeah, I mean, that was a very great time that we had.

Your daughter's performance is absolutely amazing.

I'm so impressed with the way she's able to really convey,

even just with facial expressions,

a timeless age.

There's going to be, I think, really big things for her.

She gets more roles.

I wanted to ask, how did Lauren Lavera come onto the project?

Oh, because I remember I watched Terrifying Number Two,

and then I sent a message on Instagram to Lauren Lavera,

congratulating her for the great job that she, you know,

delivered in the movie.

And at one point, she got back to me saying,

oh, my husband, which is an Italian,

is a big fan of yours.

So that's fantastic that you liked my film.

And then we started talking, chatting a little bit.

So from that moment on, I mean,

I told her that I was about to make a new film,

send her the screenplay.

She liked the screenplay.

And then we started, you know,

working together on this.

And yeah, she's so sweet.

She loves Italy.

She was so excited to be in Italy.

She has been in Italy before.

And she told me that it is her favorite country.

So she was very sweet, very dedicated.

And yeah, a real pleasure to work with her.

I mean, it was a very nice thing.

You were, when you were kind of like crafting the film

and you were creating the character,

I feel like there was a lot of classicness

to the kind of like Italian horror heroine that she was.

Was there any like particular face or performance you,

it was kind of like in the back of your mind

whenever you're writing and sort of crafting the character

that I harken back to like a specific like old movie

or old star specifically?

I mean, she reminded me a little bit

to the main character of Suspiria by Dario Gentil.

Yeah.

If you think about it, she has very big eyes

and it was great to frame her eyes

just to give this sense of fear.

And, you know, yeah, I mean, she has a very particular face.

She has a modern face, but at the same time,

she has a classic face.

I don't know.

I mean, sometimes when I was shooting Lorem,

especially on the close-ups,

I was feeling like it was, you know,

a movie from the 70s, you know,

that age of horror, Italian horror film.

She really is a big fan of that cinema

and that's why she gave that kind of performance

because she knew that it was something

I was willing to have.

Yeah, it felt authentic.

I don't think you could go into a movie

with this sort of vibe

and the,

the aesthetic you are putting forth

and give a more or less Western performance,

if you know what I mean.

You need something that's authentic to that world

because there is sort of,

European horror very much has its own set of standards

and rules, even in performance.

Absolutely.

I mean, it's very important because sometimes,

you know, when you don't like a film

it's because of the acting is kind of a fake.

Especially in the horror films because when you see

the characters reacting in a kind of an unreal

and not credible way, it's just a let down.

I mean, you don't believe the movie anymore.

And so we paid a lot of attention to hire just good actors,

you know, going through auditions to make sure

that everybody was completely in his role,

including the,

the various evil figures like the witch,

Melanie Guidos, she's a model and yeah,

I mean, she has an incredible, you know, physical appearance.

I mean, she's great when you shoot, you, you see her,

you say, you know, you, you remain very stunned.

She's very elegant.

She can be a little disturbing as a character,

as a person, because she has a very unique and special face.

But she also carries a lot of grace, a lot of elegance.

And so she was one of my favorite character in the film

and also favorite person.

A big pleasure to work with Melanie Guidos.

Then the ogre was, I already told, told you about him.

And then also the guy who was playing, you know,

was playing the monster.

I mean, imagine six hours of makeup every day,

because we wanted to make an old school kind of prosthetic effects,

not going too much into the graphics and digital stuff,

just in order to keep the movie real.

And so it was great.

Also working with Carlo Diamantini, which is the makeup creator.

And he was so passionate.

He loved so much what he was doing all the time.

You know, he did all the special makeups and also all the gore,

the gory stuff.

He did a lot of, you know, great things.

I mean, like in the old fashioned, but at the end of the day,

I can tell you that, you know, some kind of effects made by the computer.

Made by Wefix always look a little fake because you,

you can tell they're kind of a digital, they, you know,

they're not completely credible.

But when it comes to prosthetic effects,

if you spend time and you study a lot the way to make them look real,

the result is going to be way better.

And that's what we wanted to do to make something.

You know, real.

I was thinking this earlier today, whenever I was rewatching the film,

like it seems like these days,

zombie movies are the only films that seem to remember that things do not go in

and out of the human body cleanly.

I'm so glad that you made a movie where flesh stretches and breaks

and is sticky and gooey and messy.

Are you really?

You very rarely see that anymore and add so much viscerally to those scenes.

Like when your brain just on a subconscious level is like,

yeah, that's what that looks like.

Yeah. You know what?

Now, very often,

even the blood is fake because controlling the blood on set is not easy at all,

because maybe an actor will come up completely blooded,

you know, and then you have to change the costumes.

And it will take time and will cost some money because we have to,

you need three or double costumes,

you know, because just because of the blood.

So the tendency is okay.

Let's do it with the CGI and then,

you know, let's save some time.

Let's save some money.

And the majority of people don't want to get into that kind of process because it's very,

you need to spend a lot of time studying the right angle to make that effect really work.

And, you know,

but fortunately,

Carlo Diamantini was completely on my same page and we really wanted to make an old-fashioned,

you know, gory,

gothic movie.

And we were on the,

you know,

we have been in constant,

you know,

towing in constant contact.

How much I love this movie.

I definitely could probably ask you about a thousand other things,

just about like mythology and all this,

but we'll save that for later.

Maybe,

maybe you can come back on whenever the movie hits Blu-ray and whatnot.

You know, we'd love to have you on a deep dive at some point.

Yeah, do a commentary or something.

Yeah.

We'll get back on it.

Thank you, Mike.

Thank you, guys.

I really appreciate it,

you know, to make this interview.

It was fun.

It was a pleasure.

And I'm really happy that you like the film.

Congratulations.

Congratulations on the film.

Have my daughter say you are saying hi to Linda.

You're not just on the list here.

I got you.

That's all about it.

That's all about.

Yeah.

Hi.

Hello.

Hi.

So lovely.

So lovely to meet you all.

Thank you.

It's a pleasure to meet you.

It's wonderful.

Is this Linda?

Hi.

Hello.

Hello.

Congratulations on everything.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Appreciate it.

We're having a great time talking about the film.

Thank you.

That's great.

Thank you.

Thank you very much, guys.

So we talk soon.

I will keep you updated with maybe some news coming,

you know, because now the film will screen at the IFM.

Oh, that's amazing.

Yes.

American film art.

Maybe they will sell it to an American company.

So I will send you an email.

To inform you what happened in the IFM.

Okay, great.

Yeah, keep me updated.

Okay, for sure.

Thanks.

Ciao.

Ciao.

Have a lovely evening.

You are receiving this broadcast as a dream.

We are transmitting from the year 1999.

Nah, I'm just kidding.

This is an apocalyptic vision of the future.

You're being tasked with stopping coming to fruition.

Though, if that were to happen, it would likely involve this podcast.

But, um, it is just me, Intro Mike, now saying the role of Outro Mike.

Which one's the evil one?

That's the gag.

They both are.

Run.

But before you do, I want to thank you for joining us in our chat with Federico Zampaglione,

whose new film, The Well, is continuing to screen and gain some very welcome momentum.

So before you go, a reminder that if you like this podcast, we won't hold it against you,

but we can be found on all platforms.

We can be found in all the fine places you listen to things like podcasts.

You know, Apple, Amazon, Spotify, blah, blah, blah.

We are also, of course, always at BoxOfficePulp.com, at BoxOfficePulp on X or Twitter or whatever

it's called next week, Facebook.com slash BoxOfficePulpPodcast.

I'm LuckyDickNapier, pretty much everywhere, including Blue Sky.

I'm on there now.

I've seen, like, no fascists so far.

It's lovely.

But anyway, do ask for you to rate and review us if you, you know, like us or don't like us.

Whatever, you know, admonish us.

Beat us with a whip, like Castle Freak.

Whatever you want to do.

Regardless, that's enough from me.

Get the hell out of here.

And like that, he's gone.

This is BoxOfficePulpGuy.

And this has been a Pulp Podcast production.

Now, please, please, please put a gun in my mouth and pull the trigger and say goodnight.

And now, on with the show.