Dr. Andy Roark hosts Dr. Matt Salois, an economist, VMG president, and adjunct faculty at Cornell’s College of Veterinary Medicine, to discuss his Today’s Veterinary Business article on the “dangers of Dutch Pets veterinary telemedicine,” using a Trojan horse metaphor. They argue that when a “no strings attached” solution promises cheaper, easier access by reducing restrictions, vets should be skeptical because removing safeguards like the VCPR and physical exams is not the same as innovation. The conversation covers how pharmacy revenue subsidizes clinic services, concerns that Dutch’s model and rhetoric may erode trust in veterinarians, and how misdiagnoses without exams can increase costs, especially for seriously ill pets. They also discuss delayed presentation, accountability, and who bears risk when medical decisions go wrong.

Welcome everybody to the Cone of Shame Veterinary podcast.

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I am your host, Dr.

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Andy Roge.

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I got a bit of a spicy one today.

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We're talking about Dutch.

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We're talking about Dutch pet

and the idea of the Trojan horse.

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I've got, Dr.

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Matt Sooy with me today and

he wrote a really nice article

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in, today's veteran business.

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And basically he's like, Hey, look, the

standards of care that we have in place

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to protect, Pets are there for a reason.

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And anybody, anytime someone comes

to you and says, Hey, I've got this

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wonderful gift for you, no strings

attached, it's gonna make life so

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much easier and it's gonna take

care of that cost of care problem.

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All you have to do is open the gates

and reduce your restrictions, let

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down your restrictions, and we will

make all of your problems go away.

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you need to be skeptical.

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And so we talk a bit about that.

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we talk about What really happens,

when Dutch rolls in, we talk about,

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concerns that I have about Dutch

driving up the cost of care for

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our, pets that need care the most.

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And so we get into that a little bit

and kind of what that looks like.

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And so anyway, it's a really interesting

discussion about, Dutch specifically

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and how our practice works and the

economics of our, of our practices and,

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the impacts that having this type of

path to care with no regulations, no

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physical examinations, things like that.

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About what the ramifications of that,

type of a setup in our profession

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would be and what the cost would be.

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And, and so I think that

they would beta substantial.

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I I think Matt sort of agrees.

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And so anyway, we, we get

into that quite a bit.

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So guys, I hope you enjoy this episode.

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Let's get into it.

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Kelsey Beth Carpenter: This is your show.

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We're glad you're here.

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We want to help you in

your veterinary career.

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Welcome to the Cone of Shame with Dr.

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Andy Roark.

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

Welcome back to the podcast, Dr.

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Matt Saloi.

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How are you, my

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: Hey, Andy.

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Good to see you again.

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I'm doing great.

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How are you?

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

I'm doing really great.

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It's always good to have you here.

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For those who don't know you, you are an

economist, you are the president of the

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VMG, the Veterinary Management Groups.

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And congratulations, I saw recently

you have joined, the faculty as an

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adjunct faculty member at Cornell's,

College of Veterinary Medicine.

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: Yeah.

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

bit about that.

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: Yeah, thanks.

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I, I'm h- I'm hugely honored and, and

grateful and, I'll be working with

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the Center for Veterinary Business

and Entrepreneurship, they focus on

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the economics and, and, and business

aspects of veterinary medicine,

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so right up, right up my alley.

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And they're really trying to, I

think, bring a business acumen into

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veterinary medicine, in particular

with young emerging leaders.

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And so we need that now more

than ever, and it's just…

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

more than

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447:

Yeah, so just hugely excited.

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Thanks for mentioning that.

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448: Oh,

man, that's just-- I think it's awesome.

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I think that's, that's such…

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I love working with the vet students.

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They just, they just make me happy.

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: Yeah.

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

I wanted to have you on today

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because you have a, an article that

came out in, Today's Veterinary

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Business called "The Dangers of

Dutch Pets Veterinary Telemedicine

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: Yeah.

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

And so bol-bold title.

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: Yeah.

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448: then

you go on, and, and one of the things I

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really like in, in your writing, you do

a really good job of pulling in, sort

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of other stories and, and metaphors

to kind of, illustrate your points.

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And so you talked in this article

about your Trojan horse metaphor,

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which I thought was so spot on.

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I-- like, I really like the

way that you laid that out.

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So let me step back here.

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ahead and lay out for me sort

of the position, the dangers of

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Dutch and, and the Trojan horse.

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Can you just kind of

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: Yeah.

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

what you're looking at

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: Yeah, you bet.

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And so I've been thinking about this for

a while, as part of my advocacy efforts

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with, with VMG, but I, I gotta say it

really started to pick up new speed, when

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that podcast came out earlier this year.

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Tucker Carlson had the, the head

of Dutch Pet, Joe Spector, on.

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And I gotta say that, you know, first

thing, you know, after watching that

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podcast, I actually agree with a lot of

the frustration that came out on that.

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you know, a lot of conversations on

cost of care, access, consolidation,

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and those are, those are real pressures.

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So I don't, I don't really, part

ways with them on the diagnosis.

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Where, where I really part ways was on

the treatment and the proposed solution.

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because to me, this, this issue,

and we'll, we'll come back to this,

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it's not, it's not innovation.

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It's what we're, what I'm seeing,

what we're trading away to get it.

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And so the, the way I've been

thinking about this was through the

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Trojan horse analogy I think we all

know the story from, from school.

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and, you know, the point I kept coming

back to is if the Greeks had rolled up,

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to Troy with a, a giant flaming battering

ram, nobody's letting that in, right?

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The story, the story would stop there.

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Everyone sees the threat

if that was the case.

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But that's not what they did.

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they showed up with a gift, a free horse.

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Looks helpful.

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looks like the end of a problem that,

everyone was tired of dealing with.

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The war in Troy had raged for

years and years, and they just

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basically wanted it to go away.

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And that, to me, is the whole

point, is the Trojan horse didn't

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look dangerous, it looked helpful.

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And that's where I think

veterinary medicine is right now.

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People are tired, practices are

tired, pet owners are tired.

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They feel the cost pressure.

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And when you're in that kind

of environment, almost anything

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that feels like relief starts

to look like a good idea.

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448: Yes.

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I really love that, that, that part

of the story when you let it out.

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Like, and I thought you

emphasized that really well.

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It was, the relief.

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It was everybody wanted

this to be the answer.

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Everybody

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: Yeah,

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

be like, "Oh, this'll be fine."

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This like, "Ugh, if we just had

this, then that, that's good enough."

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And so I, I think that that's, I,

thought that was a great metaphor.

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I don't think Dutch is alone in this.

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: I am.

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

Boatright earlier, and we were

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sort of going back and forth and,

and talking a bit about sort of

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the standard of care as a term.

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And so we talk about what is the

standard of care, and are we using

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that term correctly and everything?

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And I told Kate, you know, when I put my

tinfoil hat on, "Matt, I really believe

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that the whole idea of a standard of care

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: Yes.

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

and it's, being undermined because…"

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So the standard of care for me is very

much what is acceptable medicine and what,

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and what is, and what is quackery and,

and what is dangerous for the patients.

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: Yes.

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

there's a lot of people who could

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make money with quackery and doing

things that are dangerous for

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patients, the vet saying, "That's,

that doesn't meet the standard of

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care," that's annoying to them.

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: Yes.

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448: you

know, it, it prevents them from being

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able to run the business they want to run.

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And so I really feel like there's,

there is an assault on, on that

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whole idea of standard of care and

of veterinarians really having the

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ability to say, "This is not acceptable.

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We need to be included.

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We, you know, we need to be in control

of some of these aspects of medicine."

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Do you, do you buy that?

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: Yeah, I--

wholly and completely, and I think your

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choice of word is telling, assault.

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It, it definitely feels like an assault.

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It's certainly pressure.

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And what I'm seeing is that

pressure is creating Bad trade-offs

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in our profession right now.

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It's like, so, you know, imagine

you got an old house and the doors

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are sticking, they squeak, they're,

they're annoying, and someone comes in

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and says, "Hey, I've got a solution.

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Let's just take all the doors off."

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And at first it feels great.

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Everything is easier.

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There's no friction.

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But, you know, then it gets cold,

there's no privacy, you know, the

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raccoons are running in and out of your

house, and eventually you realize those

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doors are doing more than you thought.

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And so that's where I think we have to be

careful because the danger isn't change,

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it's mistaking dismantling for progress.

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And that's the shift that I actually

see happening here, because what's being

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proposed in the rhetoric here isn't

just more access or more convenience.

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That's the rhetoric that's

encapsulating everything.

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It's a shift in how care

is structured, right?

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Going back to your point.

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And I think at its core, Dutch-- It's,

it's a model where the transaction

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starts to come before the medicine,

and that sounds subtle, but it's not.

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It, it, it's a, it's a

really key and telling point.

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and to be fair, this is where I think the

conversation gets a little incomplete,

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not entirely wrong, because the way

it's often framed is like veterinary

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medicine is this big profiteering machine.

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but the reality is, is most

clinics are small businesses.

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They're, they're run by veterinarians

who are dealing with staffing issues,

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burnout, rising costs, the same

pressures everyone else is facing.

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And so when you flatten that into,

which is what some of the rhetoric

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in the podcast, when you flatten

this into they're just trying to

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sell you more stuff, you lose a

lot of important context there.

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448: Yeah.

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So I, I have some ideas, and I wanna g-

I, I wanted to bounce them off of you.

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It's kind of-- It's one of the main

reasons I wanted to have you in today.

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when I, when I look at Dutch, I see Dutch

increasing the cost of care for pet owners

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that need it the most in three ways.

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so I, I just wanna

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: Yeah.

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

this kind of holds water with you.

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And so the f-the first is, and I mean,

first of all, let me just say gone

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back and forth a lot about this, and

there are some things about Dutch

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that I actually really quite like.

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you know, I, I'm not convinced that it's

the end of the world if people who are

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really, s-struggle financially, if they

can get some Apoquel for their itchy dog.

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Like I don't, I don't

know that that's terrible.

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I, I don't know that, you know, if

someone is really hard up and they, you

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know, and their, their dog is being eaten

alive by, by fleas or parasites, I, I

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don't, I don't know that that's bad.

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And so I just wanna go ahead and say

here at the beginning, I'm not, I'm

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not an anti-Dutch warrior, really.

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I, I'm, I'm truly not.

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But I've got this idea, Matt, that

access to care happens in two levels,

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and I haven't heard anybody talk

about this, but it's driving me nuts

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that I'm not hearing more about it.

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The first is access to

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: Yeah.

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

"Hey, we can get you flea medicine faster.

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We can get you Apoquel faster."

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You know, like whatever, you know, the,

the sort of baseline preventive cares.

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But then the other access to care is

my pet has been injured, and they got,

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you know, my small dog got attacked

by two large dogs, and now I have

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to-- he has to be sewn back together.

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You know, and there's anesthesia

involved, there's pain medicine

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involved, there's doctor time involved.

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Those are different

things in my experience.

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Like, I had a friend who, dog

kind of lost, lost her mind

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and ate like a whole bag of

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: Oh, no.

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448: she

went to the emergency clinic, and it was

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a national chain emergency clinic, and

I'm in South Carolina, and I'm in a, a, a

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city in South Carolina, but still in South

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: Sure.

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

And, the endoscopy was $6,000 to,

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to, for them to try to scope the dog.

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And then surgery, if they could not remove

the thing that they saw in the stomach, if

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they couldn't get it with endoscopy, then

it was surgery, and surgery was $9,000.

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And if they went for the

endoscopy and couldn't get the

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thing out, then the surgery

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: To the, yeah.

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

And I'm like, "Holy cripes, man."

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This was a healthy dog that did this thing

and when the owner wasn't looking, and

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now we're looking at six, nine, $15,000.

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And to me, that's a huge deal.

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And I, I think that my first part of, of

sort of the, the Dutch thing is, w- are

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we, aren't we robbing Peter to pay Paul?

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Meaning when

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: Yeah.

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

do you

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: Y-yeah.

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

any of that?

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447:

I, I buy it, Andy.

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I think, so two things.

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I think one, uh, more on your second

point around the pharmacy economics

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is, there's absolutely an economics

piece to this which often gets

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overlooked in the conversations.

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and that's the, the, the

revenue center that a pharmacy

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is for a veterinary practice.

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And the way I like to think about it

is think, think about a restaurant.

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the margins on, on drinks are what

allows them to keep the kitchen

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staffed and the menu reasonably priced.

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Now, imagine someone going into

the restaurant saying, "We're gonna

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make dining cheaper by taking all

the drinks out of the restaurant

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and selling them somewhere else."

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At first, that sounds like a win for

the customer, but then eventually that

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restaurant can't operate the same way.

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Something gives.

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And that's the dynamic here is you take

away the pharmacy margin, you don't

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make care cheaper, you make it more

fragile because the pharmacy revenue

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subsidizes a whole lot of things that

are conducted within the practice.

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Think about all the unpaid

telephone calls, text

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messages, conversations, right?

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The list can go, the list can go on.

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I, I think the other piece of this, and

I'm with you, I, I don't, I don't-- I'm

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not an enemy of what Dutch is doing.

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I think telemedicine, you and I

have had conversations like this

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before, telemedicine can be and

should be a really great tool.

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I, I have more a problem with

the how it's being done in terms

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of the advocacy efforts, which I

increasingly see are trying to throw

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veterinary practices under the bus

as price-gouging entities, and, and

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Dutch is the savior that comes in here.

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And so what's really not talked about,

and it's rather obvious though, is

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Dutch is also a for-profit company.

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

Oh, sure.

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: it's

venture-backed, it has investors,

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it has to grow, and the model relies

on memberships and medications

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being sold through the platform.

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Um, and so it's not like

they've discovered a nonprofit

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solution to veterinary care.

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All they're doing is moving

where the transaction happens.

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

Right.

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: matters because

this isn't a good guys versus bad guys

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kind of, argument, although I think I

see it often being pitched that way.

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It's different business models

with different incentives.

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And so what I see and what I really

do not like, which is really what

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prompted the article, especially after

the podcast, was if you're trying to

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convince pet owners to shift to a new

model, the easiest way to do that is

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to make the current system look broken.

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448: Yeah.

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: you

highlight extreme exam- examples,

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5,000 dentals, runaway inflation,

the so-called vets just sell things.

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And by the way, all those

statements were from the podcast.

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They are information at best

and wrong, at, at worst.

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And so the problem is, is

those examples aren't true.

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They're certainly not representative,

but they're also persuasive.

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And when that happens, you're

not just Informing pet owners

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potentially with misinformation,

you're also shaping their trust.

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And so then this all connects back

again to that Trojan horse idea,

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because the story starts to look

like everything out there is broken,

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and here's the simple solution.

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And that's where I think

we have to slow down.

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If you have to make the entire system

look like a scam to justify your solution,

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it's usually worth a second look.

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448: Yeah.

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You

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: Okay.

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

this strategy everywhere today, right?

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: Yes.

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Yes.

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

and we need a radical change.

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I mean, that's poli-

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: That's politics

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

summed up.

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447:

every election cycle, isn't

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448: yeah,

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: it?

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

election

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: That's right.

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

it's, you know, let's identify the quote

330

unquote enemy and try to rally people

around to throw rocks at it, you know?

331

And in this case, it's,

it's the restrictions.

332

It's the, it's the, it's the standard

of care that prevents, you know, Dutch

333

and others from being able to just run

the business that they kinda wanna run.

334

So I mean, this seems like

the standard playbook.

335

One of the things I've kinda

wrestled with a little bit is two

336

things can be true at the same time.

337

It can be true that that is the

playbook of let's, you know, let's

338

sort of make an enemy of the vets

and, and throw rocks at them.

339

also that the idea for pet

owners that vet care is getting

340

expensive, that's not fiction.

341

You

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: Right.

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

that's not

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447:

It's reality, yeah.

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

I think that there's a danger for

346

veterinarians of saying, "Well, yeah,

these people are just trying to, to,

347

you know, they're, they're, they're

essentially tr-trying to Trojan horse it.

348

They're trying to, to stir up anger

so that they can get what they want."

349

And so we don't have to address

the concerns that pet owners have

350

that care is, is really expensive.

351

And I, I think that therein

i-is, is part of the problem.

352

You know, are there other, are there other

approaches to increasing access to care

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matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: Right.

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dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

that, that you're, that

355

you're positive on, Matt?

356

matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: Yeah.

357

again, I agree with you, and

it's not to say that veterinary

358

medicine doesn't need reform.

359

We absolutely need reform, but the

advocacy efforts I'm seeing are, to your

360

point, it's about removing safeguards.

361

So for example, bring it

back to the, the VCPR, right?

362

And the physical exam.

363

And this is, you know, this is where

the physical exam piece really matters.

364

It's, it's pretty fundamental, but if

pets could talk, this whole conversation

365

would, would be different, right?

366

I mean, imagine you, you're a doctor, you

walk into the room and the dog can talk

367

to you and say, "Hey Doc, it's my spleen.

368

It started around Tuesday.

369

The pain's about a six

out of a ten," right?

370

But that's, that's not how this works.

371

As veterinarians and all veterinary

professionals know because they're

372

trained, your patients, they hide things.

373

They, they show up late in disease,

and so the physical exam isn't

374

just a step It's where you catch

what the patient can't tell you.

375

And that's why I keep coming back to this.

376

Patients don't speak, and that's

why the physical exam matters.

377

But advocacy efforts by Dutch

Pet are trying to dismantle

378

the physical exam requirement.

379

And so again, I bring it back to

the point of friction versus risk.

380

A lot of what's being framed as progress

is really just removing friction.

381

And friction feels bad.

382

Nobody likes it, but friction

and risk are not the same thing.

383

We experience this every

day when we get in our cars.

384

Seatbelts can be annoying.

385

Speed limits can be an- annoying.

386

You know what would make

driving less annoying?

387

No rules at all.

388

And that would feel amazing and

fun right up until it doesn't.

389

dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448: Yeah.

390

matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: so I

think that's the key s- distinction,

391

is removing friction is not the

same thing as removing risk.

392

dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448: Yeah.

393

I, I think sort of going back, I

said that, you know, I, I see Dutch

394

driving up prices for pet owners

that need care most in three ways.

395

And I think the, the second one for me is

I'm already hearing stories about people

396

who, you know, there's pet owners and

they've got their dog, and their dog has

397

started to cough, and they go, you know,

to Dutch, and there's no physical exam.

398

And so they get sent, you

know, cough tabs and Zyrtec,

399

matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: Yeah.

400

dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448: and

the dog's in congestive heart failure.

401

And so, you know, you go,

"Well, that was a misdiagnosis."

402

Uh, the same thing, I, I've already

heard another story of a, a cat that

403

was urinating outside the litter box.

404

They put him on antibiotics,

and the cat was a diabetic cat.

405

matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: Oh.

406

dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

the next thing you know, you're at

407

the emergency clinic with, diabetic

ketoacidosis and, you know, and, and like

408

talk about increasing the cost of care.

409

Again, wanna be honest.

410

Those are not the majority of cases.

411

The vast majority of cases, people can

kind of, you know, look at the pet on

412

video and, and kind of make a guess.

413

But when you're wrong, the cost is in…

414

matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: Yeah.

415

dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

and so I, I think that that's a problem.

416

I also w- have been playing around

with the idea of like, what is,

417

what is Dutch's liability here?

418

And so the truth, unfortunately, and

I, I mean, maybe it's not unfortunate.

419

There's no emotional damages

for the loss of pets, right?

420

Pets

421

matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: Right.

422

dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

anyway, there, there's definitely

423

kind of that like I see this, and

I see this problem, and I don't

424

really see accountability here

425

matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: Yeah.

426

dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

except for the individual vets who, you

427

know, you can go after their license and,

and, but you know, they're, they're 109-

428

they're 1099 contractors, and so they're,

they're gonna probably be on their own.

429

matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: Yeah.

430

all of what you just said reminds

me of the point around and the

431

question of who bears the risk?

432

this is the part that i-in some

ways matters most, because this

433

isn't really only a, a vet issue.

434

You know, if someone makes a bad business

decision, fine, they, they lose money.

435

But if someone makes a bad medical

decision, the patient doesn't get a redo.

436

The,

437

dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

Right.

438

matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: to some of

those examples that you mentioned.

439

So at the end of the day, this isn't

just a risk to veterinarians, it's

440

a risk to the pets and the people

who, who love them and cherish them,

441

and that has to be front and center.

442

dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448: Yeah.

443

I, I, I agree with that.

444

I think, I think that, you know, we,

we talk about fur kids and people say

445

their pets are their kids, and I, we

have to make sure to remind people,

446

like, your, your pets are, are not

your kids there is no communication.

447

You know?

448

If, if the medicine that you're giving

them is just not working, you're

449

not gonna know that other than, you

know, behavioral changes that you

450

see or, or, or things like that.

451

And it, and it, and it takes time.

452

If, you know, if your child ate, you

know, a, a jagged bone fragment, hopefully

453

you could extract that information

from them, verbally, but your Labrador

454

is not, is not gonna tell you that.

455

And so I think that's a real challenge.

456

And then the last of the sort of the three

things that I see sort of driving up costs

457

is, again, I, I don't know how much Dutch

is really to blame for this necessarily,

458

but, know, we saw this i-in the past.

459

As owners get more access to sort of

unregulated medications and treatments,

460

the amount of time it takes before pets

present to veterinarians increases.

461

You know?

462

just as a general rule, and

again, I can't back this up with

463

data, yet, my expectation is

464

matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: Yeah.

465

dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

for more treatments that are done like

466

this, w-the cases that present to the

vet clinic are gonna be presenting later.

467

You know, we're gonna see pets sicker.

468

They're three days later.

469

They tried over-the-counter solutions,

or they tried medications without

470

a physical examination, and, and

we're gonna kinda get them later on.

471

But, that's kinda, that's, that's

kinda how I'm looking at it, you

472

know, and sort of say, " what

is the actual impact on pets?

473

What is the actual impact on access to

care even though we're getting this idea

474

like we're here to help affordability?"

475

And I go, " think you guys

are probably here to help

476

affordability of flea medicine.

477

I think you're here to, to ratchet up.

478

I mean, I, I think you're

gonna have significant negative

479

impacts on affordability for

services for, truly sick pets."

480

matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: Yeah.

481

It-- The-- I think there's

real danger in all of that.

482

and undoubtedly, the more expensive

veterinary care gets, ev-everything,

483

people will push that further out, right?

484

And to your point, seeing delays

and when pet owners are taking their

485

pets to see a vet either on a routine

wellness basis or when they observe an

486

issue, waiting maybe too long perhaps

because of the fear of, of the cost.

487

And so we have to do-- absolutely need to

make veterinary care more affordable, but

488

we have to do it within, the framework

of the safeguards of veterinary care and

489

making sure that we're not dismantling

those safeguards because they're standing

490

in the way of what maybe one entity or

multiple entities are after, which c-can

491

be profit-driven, not health-driven.

492

And so that we, we have to be, we have

to be careful about that because, you

493

know, there's a, there's a balance

between agency to make decisions and

494

responsibility for those decisions.

495

A-and the one thing I think that gets

lost in a lot of th-these conversations

496

is that systems, in a general

sense, don't usually break because

497

something crashes through the walls.

498

It does happen.

499

generally, it breaks because there's

a repeated pattern that, that

500

doesn't get corrected over time,

501

you know?

502

And so these safeguards that were

put up for reasons for having an

503

established VCPR, for requiring a

physical exam exists for a reason.

504

Y-you know, again, to use another

analogy, if we were take all these

505

away, it's like having a great home

security system and then texting

506

someone your alarm code because you

think that they're trustworthy, right?

507

That, that's the pattern.

508

Again, bringing it back to Troy, Troy

didn't fall because the walls were weak.

509

It fell because they let the gates open.

510

let down their safeguards.

511

dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

I, I really love that presentation.

512

I thought it was outstanding.

513

Matt, where, where can people

keep up with your writing?

514

Where can they keep up

with what you're doing?

515

matt_1_04-29-2026_141447: Yeah.

516

So I, I'm, occasionally I get the,

the great honor of contributing to a

517

periodical like, Today's Veterinary

Business, but I'm active on LinkedIn.

518

I post weekly and, they can reach

me by, by email at [email protected].

519

dr--andy-roark-_3_04-29-2026_151448:

Outstanding.

520

Well, thanks so much for being here.

521

Guys, thanks for tuning in, everybody.

522

Take care of yourselves, gang.

523

We'll talk to you later on

524

Speaker: And that's what I got

for you Thanks for being here.

525

Thanks to Matt for making time

to come and check in gang.

526

Thanks for tuning in.

527

I hope you, enjoyed this episode.

528

I hope you got a lot out of it.

529

As always, if you did, please feel

free to share it with your friends.

530

write us an honest review wherever

you get your podcasts, and, like,

531

subscribe, do all that sort of fun

stuff that helped grow the bond.

532

So anyway, guys, take care of yourselves.

533

I'll talk to you later on.

534

Bye.

535

I.