Legendary R&B and soul singer Junior Giscombe joins Musicians Reveal with Joe Kelley for a deep, emotional, and inspiring conversation. Best known for the classic hit "Mama Used to Say," Junior reflects on the song’s origin, his vocal style, and pivotal collaborations — including work with Monte Moir of The Time and musical influences like Prince, Marvin Gaye, and Stevie Wonder.

He also opens up about profound personal losses — the passing of his daughter and wife — and how music and a move to France helped him heal. Discover the story behind his powerful new single "Sweet Tender Love" and how international performances have reignited his artistic fire.

This episode is a heartfelt look at a storied career and the enduring power of soulful resilience.

🎙️ Musicians Reveal with Joe Kelley features legendary and emerging funk, R&B, and Prince-associated artists. On air since 1982 and now spanning five decades, the show was personally spotlighted by Prince on his website in 2004. He also gifted us the One Nite Alone box set in 2002 — before any other media outlet.

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I was doing a show in la, and when I finished, two guys came up to me and said to me that they'd like to speak to me.

Prince had sent them to come say it was his management company.

He had sent them to come down and told them to make sure that they signed me.

Oh, okay.

Hi, this is Junior Giscom.

Yes, I'm on his show.

It's been a long time, but I'm on Joe's show.

Musicians revealed.

Watch it.

See me, understand me.

New single.

Come on.

How can you beat that?

Take care.

My next guest is a truly special artist who is so influential.

When I got into radio, I got out of high school.

Two months later, I was into radio.

And two months before I graduated and in radio, this man dropped a hugely successful debut album.

Junior Just Comb joins us.

It's been a few years since we last talked, and I'm awful excited to.

To see it.

We did it radio for all these years, but how you doing, my friend?

I'm very well, man.

I'm very well.

Thank you.

Thank you for asking me to come on the program.

Yeah, I mean, you're.

You're always a great, great artist and you still can sing, man.

Yeah, it's true.

Thank you.

Because some of your contemporaries, I'm sure you've seen, people didn't take care of their voice as well, and.

And you still put on a great show.

How do you do it to.

To keep it supple like that can hit the notes.

Wow, that's good.

I. I had.

I don't know, to be quite honest.

I. I suppose what it is is that, like, I never tried to sing out of the key, but I recorded him.

Oh, okay.

So everything that I. I go out and I do live, it's in the key that I recorded it in.

So that way people are hearing the same sound, the same style, maybe not exact to what they bought on a record, obviously, because it's 40 years ago or 20 years ago or 10 years ago.

Right.

But, like, being in the same key gives you the same sound as, you know, so that pretty much, I think, is what it is that's kept me going and kept the voice going.

It's not trying to go down lower, but stick within that range and just keep that power going as you go along.

And obviously the fans are seeing and hearing the same thing, because the comments, I'm sure you must see them saying, wow, this guy can really.

Yeah, it's great.

Yeah.

I went to France in a couple of weeks ago and came back and put up Something on Facebook concerning one of the places I played at.

And it just went ballistic, you know, with people talking about, my God, he's still got the voice.

He still can do this.

Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Right, now give me some more dates.

I could do my show.

Right?

Exactly, yeah.

It's like, oh, so you've been spending a lot of time out in France, right?

Yeah, I've been.

I signed with a little company out there because I just wanted to do something completely different, especially after the passing of my daughter.

Just.

I just didn't want to be in England and.

And be trying to get back into that whole industry in the way that I was in it.

So I just decided, you know what?

Let me just sign with a little company in France, put out a single, give me a chance to get out, refresh my mind, to be honest, and be able to play live in front of an audience.

I just wanted to be able to get away from Britain for a while.

Okay.

So, you know, I needed to.

It's a bit like saying I needed to refresh.

Right.

You know, and refresh.

Replenish everything that, like, I needed to.

And France has been great for me in terms of being able to do that.

Do you go back and forth still?

Yeah, still going back and forth.

Right.

Which is great.

You know, now after everything, now it's just work and going to Paris, Normandy, Leo Leon, Bordeaux.

Just playing in different places and just enjoying.

Yeah, I had this, like, maybe six months ago, jazz musician.

He was the co writer with Gil Scott Heron.

Brian Jackson.

Brian Jackson?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Do you know him?

Yeah, I know Brian.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

So he moved from, From New York to.

He's out your way now.

Yeah, yeah.

He's in France.

Yeah, yeah.

He's, he's, he's.

He loves it too.

Yeah.

I think it's the whole thing of you don't feel so entrapped and, you know, you can.

You can feel when you're in the States that, I've got to be doing this, I've got to be doing that.

I've got to be on this.

I've got to be.

Whereas when you come into Europe and especially when you're going to France, your mindset isn't that way.

So you know what you have to do and you get on and do it, but you do it in a way that works for you.

Post to.

When you're in the States and even in England, you're actually.

You're working to other people's time frame and how they perceive it and In France, it's how you perceive it.

So that's.

That's the difference.

Do you ever play New Morning?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

It's funny, all the, all the things are coming to my head because I had a guess.

I don't know if you run into Shriz out there.

He's a saxophone player.

He came on my show the night before.

He performed with your friend Omar at New Morning.

Okay.

So, yeah, yeah, New Morning is the place to play when you get to Paris, if you, you know, I think all of us have done a couple of shows there.

I have, and I love New Morning.

I just love the atmosphere and some, you know, it's places you go.

It doesn't have to be 10,000 people.

You know, you can get 500 people, and you have such a vibe, which is what this place has, that everybody wants to play there.

I think it's a bit like when people would do, like, jazz clubs in America, real small little clubs, and they became the place to go if you wanted to see an act because the acts wanted to play that club.

And everybody would say, like, yeah, but there's only 100 people that go there or 200 people in it.

You're like, but there's something special about the vibe that you get.

And I think that's pretty much what happened with me with New Morning.

And there's just a vibe about the place.

I love it.

And from what I see, you.

You got a great band too.

Do.

Is that your regular band or.

Yeah, I use a Frenchman.

Okay.

Right.

I use a French band called Echoes.

Okay.

Yeah.

It goes pretty much.

A lot of artists that come through into France will use Echoes.

They're like the number one session band, if you like, right over there for a lot of R B artists.

So I've been working with them for nearly 10 years now.

So we're good, good friends.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Keep a good thing going.

Right?

Right.

Yeah.

Speaking of the new music you were talking about, you had released, I think it was 20, 24, standout single, sweet Tender Love.

Great video as well.

You're having fun.

And people can go to Junior, just come on YouTube and they see it.

What's that?

First, let's talk about the song, because.

What a great dance song.

Thank you.

Yeah, thank you.

I, I, during the COVID I had got this song came through, and I listened to this song because I was writing at the time, but I listened to the song and I kept going back to the song, writing my own thing.

I kept going back to it because I. I loved the idea of the song and what it was saying.

And then I.

When we started to build on it, build on the.

The demo from it and the guitars, and I've always loved guitars, and I've always loved the whole fact of putting this, like, rock vibe to R B.

A bit like what the Isleys did in the late, early 70s with who's that Lady?

And stuff like that.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Right.

And that song just took me back.

So I recorded it here in England and then sent it to France for them to do their mix on it and stuff.

And then they sent it back and it was, yay, Nay.

Tweet this, tweak that.

Right.

Hey.

And we came up with this.

This track that came out last year and.

And I was just chuffed one.

Chuffed because it was.

It wasn't my song, but I think I did a good rendition for the song and.

And made the song my own song, if you get what I'm saying.

Yeah, yeah.

Right.

And the young lady, Melena, in the video with you.

Yes.

Is she a singer herself?

No, she's an actress.

Oh, okay.

She's a little actress.

Right.

She's fabulous.

A lovely little girl.

Lovely, lovely spirit.

And I think she just made the.

The video look so much fun.

Where did you film the video?

Because my wife, she's from Montreal and she speaks French.

Oh, okay.

That's her first language.

And she's.

I'm saying it's got to be French.

She says, no, not necessarily, but.

Was it in France?

We did it in Normandy.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, we did it in Normandy.

I'm trying to remember the actual place.

It will come, but we did it in Normandy.

Is it Lee Leech or LL is L. No, Ruel.

Okay, right.

We did it in.

But it was.

It was just fun to be able to.

As I said, you know, that whole thing of wanting to be able to just set yourself free.

Yeah.

And that.

That song did that for me.

And you incorporated the Soul train line.

2024.

Right.

That was cool.

That was fun, man.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That was real fun as well.

It's mad, isn't it?

You do all of these different things, and then people say to you, like, oh, you did a Soul Train line.

And I'm like, oh, my gosh.

Did you see that?

Yeah.

Spoiler alert.

It's toward the end.

You gotta watch the whole video.

Exactly.

Yeah, yeah.

So, you know.

Yeah, go ahead.

No, just saying that was fun being able to do that at the end, you know, I mean, it was like yeah, let's do this.

I think it was Poland.

Who.

One of the guys from the record company said, what about a Soul Train line?

And I was like, right, get out of here.

You know about Soul Train.

Like, junior, please.

So it was fun.

Yeah.

And speaking of, you know, in the intro, I said, when?

Now.

I never asked you this.

Is it Jai or G?

Jai.

Jai.

Okay.

My wife's name's G. And I was like.

I just knew it was your album, so.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I became acquainted with you through the record pools.

Get up and dance, Norman Giscom, Jr. And that was a great song.

Yeah.

That's what started the whole thing for me, to be honest.

Right.

Get up and Dance, Hot up and Heated became hits in France.

Hence why my.

My affiliation with France.

Okay.

I had put the.

I was on a small label called Pressure Records, and Pressure, unbeknownst to me, put the record out in France.

Okay.

So the record became huge in France.

I come to America.

I was gonna sign with a company, another small company in America called Fireside and Fire Sign had put out Galp and Dance.

And it was number one on the Bubblers.

Just underneath, on.

I think it was on the Billboard charts back in the day.

So we had a record that was about to break into the charts.

I was in America.

I was here, I was there.

And I was thinking about whether or not I should sign a fire sign.

I would have done an album for Fire Sign, but then I got a phone call from an A R man, Mercury Records, who was in America at the time.

Get up and Dance was being played on an American.

No, sorry.

On a British radio station, Capital Radio, okay.

By a guy called Greg Edwards, A DJ called Greg.

Greg Edwards.

So Greg was playing it.

Record company heard it, found out that I was in America.

The A R man came over to America, made the phone call.

He and I got together, sat down, had a chat.

I wanted to make.

I didn't want to stay in America to make records because I didn't want to be.

I didn't want to sound American.

I wanted to sound English.

I wanted it to have a distinctive sound in what.

So I told him that.

And he was up for the fight and up for the challenge, like myself.

So I came back home.

I didn't sign with Fire Sign, but what made me laugh was Fireside.

When Mama came out, Firestine put out a record called Junior Wants to Play.

Can you imagine?

Right.

On the basis of Mother used to say it was Junior Wants to Play.

Right.

This little record did so well, I think it did about 300, 000 copies in it in America.

It was amazing.

Yeah.

Early 20s, the album comes out, and the first single, you skyrocket.

I mean, it's got to be old.

Did you have any idea?

Or you just signed up for the ride and listened to.

You got to do this promotion and everything.

Well, what happened for me was I signed and then decided to be a part of a band called Links.

Yeah, Links.

Right.

And I thought, right, I'll be a part of Links, Right.

So I went out on tour with Links.

But during the time of going out and tour with Links, Mama used to say it was breaking in America.

So I would come back after we've done like a week on the road, I'd come back and go right into the record company, and it was everybody, like, patting you on your back, you know, hey, man, you sold a hundred thousand in Chicago.

You sold 200,000.

They were.

They were telling me figures that were, like, difficult to comprehend.

You know, I'm doing BVs for links.

I'm now a part of a band called Links.

And here you are telling me as a solo artist, you're out selling the band you're in.

You know, it was like.

It was difficult to kind of get your head around until.

Until the spring of 82 when I went to America and I. I did Soul Train.

Yeah.

I think I'm just trying to remember.

On the bill was a New Edition and Guy.

Oh, wow.

Three of us were recording at the same time.

But what got me was the fact that everybody went crazy for Mama used to say.

So when I got there, yeah, the Guy, you know, the band Guy.

Everybody was like, oh, man, I gotta meet you.

I gotta.

And I was like, mate, I've just bought your albums.

I've got.

Yeah, right.

I was a big fan, right?

Big fan.

And they just put out their first album, Guy and Boys to Men were doing the.

Oh, you mean New Edition.

New Edition.

Sorry, New Edition.

Is this love?

You know.

Okay.

That, like, the transition where they were going from the kids to becoming a proper, proper group.

So it was nice to meet them.

It was nice to meet Guy.

As.

As I went through, it was like, I'm meeting everybody from a Barry White to Earth, Wind and Fire to Grover Washington to Chuck Mangioni to.

It was like, I'm meeting everybody from jazz, R B, pop.

And it was a.

That first.

My first promotional tour is just amazing.

Just an amazing moment for me because it was everywhere I went.

I think you'd have these girls at the airport, man.

And I remember coming through in Chicago, right, and there was these, I mean, I don't know, a couple of hundred girls at the airport.

And I'm walking through, but I'm looking behind me to see who it is that was on the plane that these people were there for.

I saw these banners with Junior on it, you know, Mama used to say.

And I was like, oh, my gosh.

And then it really was that kind of thing.

I. I couldn't take it all in, if you get what I'm saying.

It was just a.

A wow moment.

Real wow moment.

Yeah.

I couldn't imagine.

I always.

I joke with my wife that when I first got into radio, I'd get the call.

I actually dated one of my listeners when I was like 19 to 21.

I said, I don't get those calls anymore.

Not on the lever you were.

But I just like saying, yeah, it was a different time.

It was.

It was.

It was a strange moment because we.

During the period of time of, of.

I remember meeting Rick James, right?

I was in LA and I met Rick James at.

What was it called?

I think it was called a Hollywood hotel.

And we were all staying there, myself, Rick James and the OJs where I first met them.

And I was speaking to Rick and Rick said to me, when you come back, right, you will not like women.

And I looked at him and I'm 20, I'm 24.

I'm like, you're crazy, mate.

What?

I'm looking.

You're mad.

When I got back, I understood exactly what he meant.

I've not met American women were so aggressive.

But I.

It took me back.

I not.

No way.

I did not realize, right, how upfront they were.

You know, English girls are a lot more reserved and in used to that.

So coming to America and having women push themselves up on you and be so frontal about things was a shock.

It was a shock and it took me back.

So by the time I met up with Rick, he said, how you doing?

I said, I'm doing all right, mate, but I know what you're saying.

I get it, you know?

Yeah, yeah.

He gave you that wisdom, right?

Oh, man, it was so good.

And I think again, within that six weeks, it was.

Everybody was giving me words of wisdom, making me aware of what I was in, right?

I remember when I met Stevie and Stevie asked, you know, do you own your own, your rights to your music?

And I'm like, at that time, I had no idea about owning rights to music.

I just wanted to make music, right?

But then Stevie showed me What?

No, no, no, no, no.

You need to do this.

And Aretha Franklin told me about publishing.

You need to make sure of your publishing.

And Teddy Pendergrass did the same thing as well.

Everybody was just so warm.

And so.

I've never.

In Britain, we didn't have that.

Because in Britain was.

I was one of the first.

Billy Ocean that started the whole thing, right?

And Maxi Nightingale, who had a hit before as well.

And then Billy had a hit as well, and Ruby Turner had a hit.

The.

Those were the three, really, that I followed on from.

And I think with everybody, they were just so willing to give me information, so willing to.

To show me the door that I should go through.

And I really, really 100 appreciated everybody that I've met during that very first.

I remember doing a TV show.

And Michael Wycroft, I know he's passed now, God rest his soul, but Michael was in the audience while I was doing my rehearsal and listened and came backstage and he said, man, you're not singing that song, right?

And I thought to myself, what are you talking about?

My song?

I wrote this song, you know, I'm not singing it right.

What you want?

So he sat around the piano and he.

And I went through it and I got what he was saying.

I wasn't using my voice to.

To my full potential, right.

And I think that was nerves.

Why I wasn't doing that.

But when working with him just backstage, right, we were there for about a good half an hour singing the song, going through the various key changes and stuff like this.

And Michael was just fantastically taught me.

He taught me.

He taught me how to sing my song.

And I'm so grateful to him.

Yeah, I'm grateful to Michael.

He showed me the best way to approach what I'd done.

And Stevie Wonder did the same thing, and.

And Rick did the same.

I was just incredibly fortunate to have met everybody at a particular time and stage in their lives that they were all the two fun two tons of funds.

The girls were fantastic.

You know, they really were.

And Sylvester was a great singer.

Yeah.

You know, Luther as well.

Luther would be on my case about the fact that.

Why are you singing so high, man?

You need to come down and I'm gonna write you a song.

I'm like, oh, please do.

You know?

Yeah.

You know, it was that kind of thing where you're.

I really was the junior coming into this senior arena.

And it was eye opening.

It was.

I think looking back, it would.

I would say it was one of the best times of my career.

Yeah.

Not actually knowing anything.

Right.

But coming in and having so many people wanting to share their knowledge with me, that was a beautiful thing, Joe.

Yeah.

And, you know, it's encouraging.

You mentioned so much kindness from established artists many, many years, just to say, hey, this to help you out.

So I just thought it was fantastic because we, as I said, there wasn't any.

Any black artists in Britain other than myself at the time, who had broken through in America.

Right.

And to be going and doing these various different TV programs and meeting all of these artists and they would sit me down, they would talk to me about various things and, and open my eyes about publishing.

In the end, I own my own publishing.

Talk to me about, you know, perpetuity and.

Perpetuity and stuff like what it means and what.

What.

What you need to do to try and get back your catalog and get back.

Everybody was just so open.

Just so open.

I didn't meet an artist during that period of my career who wasn't willing to share.

And that was a beautiful thing.

It made me come back to England and be so open, wanting to share with every artist I came into contact.

Yeah.

And you had some great affiliations with.

With artists from, From England and Top of the Pops.

You did.

Is that after the U.S. tour?

Yeah, I did the.

I did the.

I did Top of the Pops before I went to the States and then came back and was doing Some of the Pops all the time pretty much.

Right.

And Rasma Test that.

That show was.

Was.

Where was that from?

That was from the uk.

Right.

Yeah.

Rasmatas is here in the uk.

Was in the uk.

Okay.

Yep.

So, yeah, all the.

How were the members of Links with all your success?

How did that go down?

Well, Links, it's a very funny thing.

I'm working with David Grant as we speak now.

Oh, okay.

So obviously this goes to show.

No, I think Links became a big band in, In Europe, in.

In especially.

Well, in England.

They were huge at the time.

They were the number one band in the country.

Right.

You know, so we had gone out on tour and we were playing like two nights at.

Down at the Dominion.

So he was playing a week at the Dominion and it was two shows right down there.

So like, what, 4,000, maybe 4,000, 8,000 a night most probably at that time.

Right.

You know, we were killing it as a band.

So when we came off the road, which was just before, just before Christmas, Mama was breaking big, so the band was hearing it, you know, people in the band who had played on the project as well.

Okay, right on My project as well.

They were hearing that the record was breaking, so Links were really cool because we.

When I was making the album, I was on the road with Links.

So what we would do is Bob and myself, who arranged and produced it.

Yeah, Bob Carter.

Yeah, that's right.

Me and Bob, we would go off, right?

We do rehearsals with the band and then we go up and we do rehearsals.

The album, an undercover record.

With one of them.

So we.

We recorded.

When I got off the road.

We recorded the J.

In three weeks.

We had three weeks.

And we recorded the whole album in three weeks.

Right.

Which was brilliant because we rehearsed it going all the way through the tour.

So when it came to recording it, we used a lot of the players from the band, Links.

So when it came to playing it, everybody knew.

So it was really simple.

We could do maybe two or three tracks in a day.

Right.

Because we'd already rehearsed it, we knew exactly what we wanted to do.

And Bob and I would be left alone to kind of like structure it once we put down the.

The backing tracks, you know, so it was again, a really good time.

Because it's like, you know, I've not made an album in three weeks ever since.

That's true.

They say it's easier, but I guess it's not.

It ain't easy.

It ain't easy.

Right.

Wow.

Hey, you know, you put out one of my all time favorite B sides In Words.

Oh, beside it.

Too late.

And I love that 12 inch.

I got the 12.

It was so thin.

The.

The paper thing, the.

You pull out, the vinyl would stick to the sticks.

Yeah.

Ye.

What was the intention with that?

That was the record company.

Okay.

Yeah.

I had nothing to do with that, but I thought, why have you done that?

Why have you said that it sticks?

I don't understand.

But I wanted.

I recorded Mummies to say and In Words at the same time.

Okay.

I wanted In Words out.

The record company wanted Mama and said that, like, right, we're going to prove to you that Mama is the track.

All right.

You proved it to me.

But I still love In Words.

Yeah, yeah.

It's a.

It's a great that.

Do you do it live in Words?

No, but what I'm doing is next year is my 45th year in this business.

Wow.

So I intend to go out on the road and do the Jai album, so.

Oh, yeah.

Everything that's connected to the Jai album.

So In Words will be.

When I go out next year, I'll be doing In Words, which is one I Have not done in years.

So.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to that.

You got to come out here.

I want to.

Yeah.

I would love to.

I've not had any promoters hit me up yet and say, junior, we want you to come.

So after this, I hope they do.

Yeah, that's right.

And you got it.

You got a friend with your.

Your Minneapolis friend, a mutual friend, Monty Moyer, who you reunited for a radio special recently.

But first, before we get into what you did with Monty recently, how did you two become affiliate and become such great friends and work together?

I.

Well, I was playing.

I was playing a date in a place called Hitchin in.

In just outside of London.

Okay.

And when I got to the gig, I was told that the Time will be opening act.

And because I just bought the album, right?

The Time album, the first album.

I. I was just in awe.

I couldn't wait to meet them and talk to them and whatever else.

And then when I was there, I heard that they're canceled, Right.

So they.

They.

For whatever reason, something must have been happening in America for them, but they didn't.

They didn't manage to come.

But years on, I now wanted to.

I wanted to make an album which was a sophisticated street album.

I wanted to make something different.

I wanted to do something completely left to center, not down the same route as I'd been going.

And Monty's name came up as one of the producers.

And I just thought, you know what?

Right?

I'd like to do this.

I'd like to work with Monty.

Right?

So they made a phone call to him, the record company, he was up for it.

And we first met when I came over to Minneapolis and Monty started taking me around.

And I think Monty did what I would have done, which is get to know the person you're going to work with.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, so instead of just diving in and starting to write songs, we spent time chatting, finding out about one another's background.

Right.

Talking about what England was like in comparison to what Minneapolis was like.

Because when I went there, it was like the chill factor was incredible.

The place is cold.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Notorious.

Yeah.

Oh, man.

In the winter it's freezing.

But I love the lakes.

I loved.

I started to love everything about Mini.

Still is my favorite city in America, Minneapolis.

Yeah, it still is.

Great town.

Yeah.

I just loved the whole vibe of the place and the way that the musicians interact and the way that they help one another.

You know, the younger kids coming in and, you know, they used to have a session thing down at Creation.

Where young kids would come and they'd play their music and you could buy the song off of them and stuff like this, right.

Or you can help them to get a record deal.

This is what they were doing.

And we hadn't had anything like that in the uk, so going to Minneapolis, I spent it must have been about two months in Minneapolis.

But being in Minneapolis really taught me about being part of a community of musicians, right.

Young musicians who were coming up at Great Ideas, right.

Wanted to share year, wanted knowledge from us, Right?

Yeah.

Steve Weiss, who was the engineer, was just a wonderful, wonderful.

Yeah, I was going to ask you about him.

Yeah, he was the guy, right?

Yeah, Steve was the guy.

You know, I mean, the stuff that he did with Jam and Lewis and then what he was doing at the time and then what he was doing with Monty, he was just able to tap into you as an engineer again.

Teaching me about working with somebody else who has ears and who has a great knowledge of sound.

Right.

And weight of sound.

You know, some people, you put a bass on and it's just the bass.

But Steve seemed to know the kind of kilohertz that you need to have in the bass so that when it's played, it kicks you in the stomach, you know?

Right.

Opposed to knocking on the door.

Wow.

You know, and back in those days in the uk, they used to mix on Ortones.

I don't know.

Do you remember Oratons, a little.

Very small speakers.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like you put them on a desk or something.

Yeah, you used to put them on top of a desk.

Right.

Four speakers.

But the reason they did that was because back in England.

In England at that time, everything was medium wave, right.

So the frequency was completely different.

And working with Monty and.

And Steve again taught me, right.

How to listen when I'm.

When I'm.

Because if you can imagine you've done all of this recording and whatever else, and it's going to go in a cassette, which is like, you know, an 8th, 1 8th, and put that sound on that small piece of tape.

So you then started to learn that, like you were losing sound, right.

As much as you built this great sound, it's going on a cassette, and the cassette would compress it so much that you would lose things.

And I then.

I didn't know that when I was first.

When I started.

But working with Monty, and that's like a good, what, five years, six years on from Mama.

But working with them again gave me insight into how to mix, how to mix for aura tones, what Are you after what you looking for?

Again, as I said, because everything was medium waving when I came to America, everything was fm.

So, again, frequencies were different.

Yeah.

Did you run into Prince while you were out there?

Yeah.

I'll give you a joke with Prince.

I. I met Prince first in England.

I was in.

I was doing a PA at a little club called Heavens, and this guy was standing up on the wall and I looked and I'm like, I know this kid.

I know this, right?

So I.

He's standing there and I went up and I said to him, you, Prince?

And he never said anything.

He didn't even say yes.

He just stood there, right?

So I said, man, I've got the first album, right?

I said, I've got the first album, right?

And I love.

For you, you know, that track for you.

I just said to him, I love that track, right?

And we started to talk music, right?

I had to within about 5, 10 minutes, and then I had to go and do the show.

So I went and I did my show.

I came off and he was gone.

So I didn't think anything of it.

When Mama came out, I was doing a show in la and when I finished, two guys came up to me and said to me that they'd like to speak to me.

Prince had sent them, say it was his management company.

He had sent them to come down and told them to make sure that they signed me.

Oh, okay.

Oh, to Paisley Park.

No, no, he didn't.

It would have been.

I think it would have been Pasty Park.

It would have been.

Or maybe they were just like, informative stage for that.

Yeah, right.

Most probably at that stage.

But he was like, make sure you sign him.

And I was like, oh, wow, this.

Guy, you know, he thought that highly of you.

That's.

That's high praise.

Yeah.

Come on.

I was like, real, really, really chuffed at that, you know, that he had sent them to come down.

I didn't sign, mind you, but to come down.

How difficult would that have been to get out of your.

Your record deal with Man?

Can you imagine?

Yeah.

Can you imagine to have tried to get out of that deal at that time, right.

And to sign with Prince's label and with what he was starting at that time, Right.

I doubt the record company would have never let go.

They were making too much money at the time for me, so I don't think they would have ever let go.

Wow.

Yeah, that's.

You could have been the first artist on Paisley Park Records.

Could have been.

Yeah.

Yeah.

At least Prince wanted You.

Well, this is the thing.

It wasn't like if management said they wanted me.

Management made it clear that he said.

Yeah, yeah, obviously it was.

It was the truth.

Yeah.

They came down and they.

They made it quite clear, Right.

That, you know, Prince sent us, said to us that we've got to make sure.

They told me, you've got to make sure that you sign him.

Right.

And I was there.

I'm thinking, like, wow.

I hadn't spoken to that guy for more than 10 minutes.

He must have watched the show and then split, you know?

Yeah, right.

Yeah, he was fantastic.

Prince was great.

Yeah.

That was the icebreaker.

Talking about music and then.

And then that was it.

You were in his mind.

That's.

That.

That's great.

Great.

Wanted to also ask you about.

You know, I'm also a big Paul Weller fan.

Who you collaborated with.

Yeah, the Council Collective.

And do you still hear from Paul?

I know he's got a new record.

He's always working, but.

He's always working.

Paul.

Yeah, every now and again, we.

We kind of hook up.

Last time I saw him was about a year and a half, maybe two years ago now.

Right.

But I know he worked with Omar recently on the track for his new album.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

So Paul's still working.

Paul.

Paul is Paul, you know, these.

He's something else.

That's all I'm gonna say.

Or he's something.

And he doesn't look back too.

Too much in the past.

Right.

That's the thing, I think.

I think if you know him, right, you realize that, like, you know, he's.

He's like myself in that regard.

It's about moving forward, and you don't keep looking back and staying in the past, if you get what I'm saying.

It's a bit like me always wanting to move forward, always looking for the next challenge.

Want to make a new record, but I want to make it, and I'm not sure yet how.

I'm not sure.

Well, not in terms of how, but.

But what you want to say.

Yeah.

You know, and Paul's a lot like that.

So is Billy.

Billy Braggs, who is also.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

You also work with him.

Yeah, yeah.

Three of us together pretty much started Red Wedge, which was the political end of.

Of what we were doing, trying to make young people aware of the fact of the politics within their areas.

And we went out on tour with a good few.

Every.

Every city we went to, we made sure that, like, you know, the hip band of Vatican City would play that night.

So when we got to Manchester, it was the Smiths.

Jimmy Ma.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, those guys.

And then when we got to.

I mean, it was Newcastle, we got to that.

We had another band.

We've gone Polygram at the time.

Right.

And they played.

And then we had Big country on another show.

Each city.

ABC came from ABC band called abc.

They came from Sheffield and we had them on when we got to Sheffield.

So it was like.

It was that kind of thing.

When we went out on the road with Red Wedge.

It was a very interesting time.

Yeah, a lot of great music for.

For the buck, I guess, and for good.

Good cause.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I gotta.

Our viewers and our listeners, I want to encourage them to.

Also Another recommendation on YouTube, when Junior just come was on Jules Holland, the.

And you perform.

Mama used to say with a huge big band and everything.

You had Michael Buble smiling and grooving.

Wow.

And that.

That's proof that you still is.

Are an amazing performer.

And how did.

Specifically when you broke it down, I got a little quiet.

And you were doing the vocals there.

And Jules had the look.

He was just admiring you, like, you know, he was in his zone of being a fan, I thought.

That's what I thought.

I think.

And it's funny, right?

Jules and I met.

God did.

I did a TV program in England called the Tube.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

That was back in 83.

82.

83.

And Paula Yates.

I met the both of them at that period of time and we.

We worked together for a short moment.

And after that we never saw one another again.

I'd see him on TV and you'd see.

And then I got a phone call from the producer of the show.

And when I went down, or should I say I spoke to them before the show and I spoke to Jules before the show and what we were trying and what we wanted to do and what I wanted to do.

And they said it was a big band.

So I said, oh, brilliant.

You know, you got the horns and everything and like.

Yeah, we've got everything, June.

Don't worry about it.

We're gonna do it in a particular style.

They sent me the backing track and I just thought, this is fantastic.

You know, it's like.

It was just big, massive.

And I like, I love this.

Let's do this.

Yeah.

So we rehearsed.

We actually rehearsed the track on the night that we recorded it.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

So it wasn't like if I. I knew what was going to happen.

We just.

One, two, three.

Let's go.

Bush.

We just did It.

I loved it.

Oh, yeah, that.

That's.

That.

That's a highlight of your career.

I love that.

Yeah.

And you could see the people in the crowd.

I mean, they were just.

Oh, man.

I mean, you got.

You got how many artists, a limited artist have a signature song.

I know.

I mean, you have a whole catalog, but that.

That's your stairway to heaven.

You got to play at every concert, I'm sure.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, like, you know, I can't really do a gig, right, without doing Mama used to say, right.

Another song in England, right.

If I don't do song called Morning Will Come.

If I don't do Morning Will come, people go mad.

It's like, well, hold on a minute now, right?

You did Mama, Where's Morning?

What's going on?

Do the promoters, do they send you a request list that you got to do these songs in the center?

Some places, too.

Some places.

Okay.

When I go to France, some of the places in France, there's songs like Stone Lover, which I never do, and they want the Stone Lover, and I'm like, get out of here.

And then you do it, and you think, oh, my gosh, maybe I should keep this in the show, you know?

Right.

But it's certain places like certain songs more than they do other songs.

Like in.

In Leon, it's Up and dance, Hot up and heated has to be done.

Right.

And if I do New Morning has to be done by those two songs as much as Mama and Morning will Come, Right.

But you start to know the different areas and the songs that they want you to sing.

And you've written some great ballads.

Baby, I want you back.

Thank you.

Yeah, thank you.

What a great songwriter.

I mean, you.

You've given songs to other artists, and do you still put your songs out there for other artists to record or you keep them close to you?

No, no, no.

I still.

I'm.

I'm still open to giving out tracks.

I.

What?

Since the passing of Chinique, I've not done.

I've not been as prolific in terms of writing as I was.

And I know that because of the fact that, like, I know that I've been holding back.

I want to say things, but I think it's like saying the climate isn't right yet.

So you write them and you put them down, Right?

So I've done a lot of that, and I've had a lot of different artists ask for songs, right?

And I've been like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I haven't actually got round to it.

Do you get what I'm saying?

It's like.

Yeah, it's still there, but I'm just kind of like.

It's the.

It's taking me time to get back into the swing of writing, performing, recording, and just keeping it rolling in that way, you know, But I'll get back.

Yeah.

And we were talking off air, but, you know, Junior's referring to Janique, his daughter, who passed away at a young age, and also your wife before that, also young.

And, you know, so you've persevered, but unimaginable, the what you've gone through and what they went through.

What they went through.

I think it's more.

I've never really looked at it that, like, I've done anything.

I.

What I did was I was there for both.

I. I made sure that my career did not stop me from doing what I thought was right, which was to be with them and to spend that time.

So if it meant not recording, which it did mean not recording, and it did mean not playing live and doing all of that for a good few years, but at the same time as saying all of that, right, People were still asking for interviews, which I was doing.

People were still asking for various things from me, which I could do.

I just had to be with both.

I had to make sure both we had carers.

But as much as there was carers in, I was still pretty much there all the time with both.

And, you know, I'm really.

To be honest, I'm really, really pleased that I did spend that time with both of them.

And.

And Janique pushed you to record release Everything Said, right?

Yeah, it was her.

He was the inspiration behind that.

She kept telling me to say about the fact of, why don't you do a reggae album?

You're always in Jamaica, right?

And you know everybody in Jamaica, right?

Why don't you do it?

And I'd be like, oh, please, I'm not gonna do that.

I like going to Jamaica and nobody knows me.

Yeah.

That's what you think, that they know you?

Yeah.

I mean, that's your roots.

Bob Marley, you know?

Exactly.

Yeah.

It's my home.

So I. I decided when she.

She kept on, kept on, and we went to Jamaica one year, and I took the whole family down.

I'd gotten in contact with a guy called Wayne Wonder, and Wayne put me on to another Wayne.

And my cousin over here in England knew Lucianos.

They got older.

Lucci, Richard Blackwood.

Right, right.

Yeah, we did Luciano.

Right.

Okay.

Luciano was the messenger.

He's the, you know, prophet, basically.

America.

I'm sorry.

Jamaican artist, absolutely brilliant.

And I got in contact.

We spoke.

I was in Jamaica.

We went to a studio in Jamaica and we cut.

Mama used to say.

And I put the.

I did a video for it.

We put the video up and we put that.

And the whole thing just exploded.

Reggae fraternity went absolutely mad for it.

Right?

Yeah.

I mean, you, you've, you've released so much music and, you know, you're not afraid.

You're, you know, you're looking ahead, but you're.

You're still doing things that you love.

Growing up.

I remember you talking to Donnie Simpson years ago, watching that about the.

The pirate radio stations driving around in London.

Right.

Yeah.

Does that still exist?

Yeah, they still exist.

You know, obviously.

Obviously you.

Not in the same way, but they're still like, you know, oh, God, Starpoint, my soul.

Who else is there?

Solar Radio.

All of these radio stations who've been around for the last, like, 30 years, they've just upgraded.

Right.

Still there, you know, Pop radio, they did that.

Pirate radio in the UK will not die.

It can't die because it's, it's, it's the heritage.

We.

None of the radio stations and commercial radio stations truly play R B.

They play a form of R B, which is more commercial, more, I would say, watered down.

Whereas those stations, the pirate stations, still playing, you know, what was the other one I heard the other day?

Shantay.

What was her name?

But Shantay Moore.

No, not Shantay Moore.

There's another one.

Savage.

Okay, right, again.

Brand new music, different vibe, but they're on it.

The pirate stations are on it.

And the pirate stations are still able to break artists.

More so within the.

What would you say?

More so within.

It's a small area, and it may seem like a very small market, but that artist that they've broken can come over and play maybe to 2, 000 people.

Yeah.

Whereas maybe in the States or in.

Wherever they're coming from, they'd be lucky to play to a hundred.

Do you get what I'm saying?

Because.

Yeah, yeah.

Nobody knows who they are in England.

Completely different.

I remember when Frankie, Beverly and Maze came to England for the first time and they played a place called Hammersmith Odeon.

And they played for six nights.

They never had a hit record.

Right.

So there wasn't any record that was a hit.

Why they could play for six nights, but their music was being played on pirate radio.

And that carried it.

Wow.

And that carried it all the way.

And what, what really made me laugh was that the record that was at number one in the charts, the act at the time couldn't sell out one night.

Here's this.

Great.

And they got number one in the charts.

And they couldn't sell out one night.

And here's this band.

Never been in any of the charts, but they sold out six nights.

Right.

You know, so that was the beginning of my.

My love affair with Maze and Frankie.

Beverly and another man who just passed away.

Yeah.

Not too long ago.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Great.

Great.

Yeah.

We.

We're close friends with Chris Jasper and another.

You know, he would come to our studio when, before the Pandemic.

Every year he'd bring in.

He recorded like an album a year out of his house.

Yeah.

Always bring two copies.

We'd spend like four.

Four hours on the air.

When we finally did an interview last summer, I'm glad we did.

But it was.

It was like this.

And then he got sick and nobody knew he was ill. And I didn't know.

Yeah, I didn't know.

And we're friends with his son.

His son actually went to the school where our station broadcast out of Fairfield University.

So.

Yeah.

Great guy.

And you mentioned the Icy Brother.

So.

Yeah, I was a big fan.

Big, big, big fan of the Iceley Brothers.

Because it was like they.

When they had.

When they put out the Three plus three album.

Right.

That to me was such a turn.

It was a bit like when Slip Out, There's a Riot Going On.

Right, Right.

Yeah.

Certain albums that just changed the whole face of everything.

And I think the Isley did that with three plus three and slided that with.

With There's a Riot Going On.

P. Funk did it with Chocolate City, you know.

Yeah.

The Ohio Players did it as well when they did Honey and all that kind of stuff back then.

Right.

So all of these bands were coming out of America.

Yours got Heroin was saying this and this one was.

But it was such a. I think during that whole period of the mid-70s, going into the early 80s, Curtis Mayfield and what Curtis was doing at the time as well, there was such a flow.

It was just like.

It was just flowing of great music, great artists do, you know.

Right.

And you were a kid growing up at that time, which I was.

I was influenced by all of those artists, you know, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gay, Diana Ross, you name it.

It was just.

The music was just of such a caliber.

Right.

That you were just drawn.

It's like.

For me, it was like I was being drawn in, you know.

Right.

To all of this good stuff.

Did you buy a lot of Records as a kid.

Yeah.

A little too much.

Oh, man.

I've got.

I've got a warehouse right where I put my music.

Right.

Right.

To store it up because it's like I don't know, maybe 10 to 15,000 albums.

Wow.

Yeah, I just.

I used to as a kid, as soon as I got paid, I was down at the record shop and that would be it.

My money would go on the record shop and it would be my then girlfriend.

Right.

Who would be taking me out.

I never had any money.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Who was the first record?

Do you remember the first record you ever bought?

The very first single I ever bought.

Right.

Was let's Get It Right Now Junior.

You really got me going.

You got me so I can't see Bat Night.

The Kinks.

Wow.

Hey, good choice.

Yeah.

That was my first.

First record in terms of.

Single that I bought was the Kinks.

And my first album that I bought is Grover Washington's Inner City Blues.

Wow.

Yeah, you, you, you.

You had some amazing choices back then.

Yeah.

You know, my first.

I don't remember my first album.

I remember my parents had Stevie Wonders songs in the Kia Life, which I listen all the time.

But the first one I bought was Kung Fu Fighting, Carl Douglas.

Yeah.

So it was a hit for at the time.

Yeah, yeah, I remember that track.

Everywhere in the World.

That was a huge record.

Right, right.

You know, before we let you go and direct people to your website, which will have all the links in our descriptions and everything, I wanted to ask you a story.

Amazing story.

How you got into the Beverly Hills soundtrack and affiliate with Eddie Murphy.

I couldn't believe when I heard.

I forget where I heard it, but I don't know if you wanted to give a version of that.

That's amazing.

I was.

I was in a hotel.

I think we must have been in Texas.

I think it was Texas.

And the record company had brought in because I wanted some big speakers.

So they got me some big speakers and it was in the room.

And I just done the second album.

Right.

And the single of the second album, Communication Breakdown was about to come out, so I was over to do promotion.

I found out that Eddie Murphy was staying in the room underneath.

Right directly underneath my room.

So what I did is the early morning.

I was there for two days.

In the morning I would put on the album, turn it up loud as I could.

Stomp on the floor.

Right.

Carry on like if I'm done.

I just wanted him to come up the stairs and get mad so I could meet him.

Yeah.

But for Two days, nothing at all.

The.

The hotel didn't complain about the noise.

Nobody complained.

No Eddie Murphy.

I thought, you know what?

Hey, I got a copy of the album.

I went downstairs and I pushed it underneath his door, went off, went to New York, had three days in New York and then came back to England.

And when I arrived back in England, I got a phone call from the record company.

And the.

The A R man said to me and Junior, some guy called Eddie Murphy's making a movie and is asked if you could do a song for the movie.

So I knew that, like, they had no idea who Eddie Murphy was from.

You're saying to me, some guy called Eddie Murphy, Right?

Yeah.

And in England, we.

We didn't have anything that would show Eddie Murphy.

So the people in England didn't really know who Eddie Murphy was.

So I did on my eight track.

I had an eight track at that time, right?

Voice text, eight track at home, right.

So I started to write this song and I got the guitarist who used to play with the Gap man, right, to come and play guitar for me.

So I did this eight track demo.

I was really.

Was that Robert Wilson?

No, no, no.

Oh, okay.

Glenn Nightingale.

Oh, okay, okay, right.

So Glenn, right, played on it.

I was so chuffed.

It sounded really good, you know, when I finished it.

So I sent the demo to the record company because I had two days to do this tune.

So I sent it to the record company, the record company sent it to Paramount.

Paramount put the demo in the film.

Except that was one of my highlights.

On the eight track.

On eight track.

Can you imagine?

Right?

And then I.

When it came to actually recording the thing properly, Stevie Wonder was over in England and I had met Stevie before in America, right?

So as I asked him if he would play drums and he was like, I've never done a drum session, man.

So I'd like get out and said, I got Stevie to do drums on do you really want my love.

It was his first, as he said, his first session.

Drum session.

Right, right.

It was brilliant, man.

The whole thing of pushing it under his door, never getting the chance to meet him, to say hi or whatever else, right?

And then hearing that he must, he rang and said that he wanted to track him the film.

He wanted me to write something for the film.

Did you meet him afterwards?

Did you meet him?

No, up to this day, I've never met Eddie.

Okay.

When you.

When you do the Jai tour, you gotta.

I think he's out in California still, so.

Oh, if he's out in California, when we do the Giant tour, I will make sure that I go to him.

We got a lot of cities you can hit up on the coast there.

Exactly.

Right, right.

It's a bit like the same thing with Pharrell.