The primary focus of this episode is a thorough exploration of the illustrious history of jersey number 70 in the NFL, as we engage with esteemed historian Joe Ziemba. We delve into the remarkable careers of some of the greatest players who donned this number, highlighting their achievements and contributions to the game. Among the notable figures discussed are Hall of Famers such as Art Donovan, Sam Huff, Ernie Stotner, and Rayfield Wright, each of whom left an indelible mark on football history. We also examine players who, despite not achieving Hall of Fame status, have compelling narratives and significant impacts on their teams, such as Logan Mankins and Jim Marshall. Join us as we intertwine these captivating stories with insights and reflections on the legacy of jersey number 70 in the annals of American football history.

In this episode, we discuss the greatest players that wore the jersey number 70 in the NFL's history with NFL historian and author Joe Ziemba, host of the When Football was Football podcast.

We would like to thank the National Football Foundation, Pro Football Hall of Fame, On this day.com and Pro Football Reference Websites for the information shared with you today.

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In this compelling episode, the hosts embark on a journey through the history of the NFL, concentrating on the esteemed jersey number 70 and the remarkable individuals who have worn it. Darren Hays and Joe Ziemba delve into the narratives of players who have not only excelled in their roles but have also contributed significantly to the culture and evolution of football. The discussion highlights lesser-known figures alongside renowned Hall of Famers, shedding light on their personal stories, challenges faced, and the legacy they left behind. Listeners will hear about the unique experiences of players like Jim Marshall and Logan Mankins, whose tenacity and dedication exemplified the spirit of the game. The episode is interspersed with anecdotes that reveal the human side of these athletes, illustrating their triumphs and tribulations. With a focus on historical accuracy and depth, the episode not only educates but also inspires a newfound respect for the often unsung heroes of the gridiron, inviting fans to reflect on the profound impact of these players on American football.

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Hello my football friends.

This is Darren Hayes of pigskindispatch.com and welcome once again to the Pig Pen.

We have another bonus edition.

Our Football by Number series is continuing and we are all the way up to jersey number 70.

And what better way to celebrate jersey number 70 than to have our good friend Josiemba join us.

Joe Ziemba welcome back to the Pig.

Pen once again, my friend Darren.

Thank you so much.

And it's really enjoyable that we're able to give some recognition to players.

We've had fun in the past with halfbacks and linebackers, some of the crazy people that have played the game.

But when you get to number 70, you have a lot of linemen who do their job for years and years, often decades, and they don't get the recognition.

But we have some great stories.

We're going to talk about a Hall of Famer who told he was too small to play football at high school and college and again in the pros.

We also are going to spotlight a gentleman who has the longest lost yardage on a fumble recovery, believe it or not, in NFL history.

And we also have an ex player who recorded with people like Beyonce, Madonna and Cher.

So we've got some fun stories and I think one that we could start with is maybe one of the best storytellers of all time.

We have four hall of Famers on the list.

And it's a guy that many people have heard of called Art Donovan.

If we could talk about him.

And he was a guy who actually kind of influenced my outlook about football.

Donovan appeared on numerous television shows like Johnny Carson and David Letterman and Jay Leno shows and told the fun side of football, or at least he made it sound like fun.

So I thought, wow, this guy tells great stories.

Maybe that's the way to talk about football.

Tell stories about the players.

So he's got plenty of them.

Well, if he's your influence, and he is a great influence because you're definitely a great storyteller and about the game of football.

So let's talk about Donovan.

Tell us all about him here.

Well, Donovan was a big kid, six two, 263 pounds.

And he never made any aversion to talking about the fact that he liked to eat a lot.

They called him the Bulldog.

He was a big old tackle.

Played nine years with the number 70.

Majority of that was with the Colts.

He spent nine years with the Colts.

Five times he went to the Pro bowl, four times he was an all pro and twice he was an NFL champion.

And what was interesting, and he played 108 games with the Colts and he started every single one.

But he was a guy who started and thought he was going to play college football at Notre Dame.

But the war broke out and he enlisted and he spent three years in combat.

In fact, it was heavy combat.

He was at Iwo Jima.

And so when he got back and played pro Football, it wasn't quite as difficult, nor did he take it quite as serious as fighting for his life.

So he really had two careers, one in pro football and one in entertainment.

As we mentioned, he was on these various talk shows where folks across the country could see Art Donovan and hear his funny stories about his experiences in pro football.

He was also an author.

He wrote a book, believe it or not, called Fatsum, and it became a bestseller from what I understand.

But I know you might have a couple of his various quotes.

I pulled a couple out here, Darren.

And he talked about how players are starting to get in weightlifting in the off season.

And Art said about weight training, the only weight I ever lifted weighed 24 ounces.

It was a Schlitz.

I always replaced my fluids.

And then what about steroids?

We had that steroid issue for a while and Art said we didn't have steroids.

When I played, if I wanted to get pumped up, I drank a case of beer.

My kind of guy.

And of course, on his eating habits and his diet, he had to keep with him a certain weight or keep his weight up.

He said, I'm a light eater.

As soon as it's light out, I start to eat.

So Art Donovan, one of my favorites.

And I think he might be one of our nominees for our top 10 list tonight.

I think he's definitely not only a nominee, I think he's a shoo in on it.

But yeah, a couple of his other comments, he's just a laugh a minute.

He's probably the Rodney danger field of the football field, I would say.

I mean, one of his comments that I found pretty amusing is I went to college to play football, not to study it.

You know, he had, like you said, he talked about his weight and he said, you know, both sides of my family had come from Ireland in the 19th century for the same reason.

There's nothing to eat over there.

Since then, I've tried to make up for the by the potato famine by eating as many potatoes and it being the only vegetable that passes these lips.

And he went on to say, I don't eat vegetables.

I only eat food like cheeseburgers, Spam, hot dogs and pizza.

So you can see what his training regimen was.

You know, pizza and beer.

That's probably one that most of us would enjoy having that as our diet.

So, oh, perfect diet.

And you don't blame the guy went to war for three years, interrupted his education and his football career and came out of it.

And then we still remember Art Donovan.

Yeah.

And you know, he had another comment that wasn't one of his more humorous ones, but it's one that sort of maybe sheds a little bit of light.

You know, you said how he served in the Marines and Iwo Jima, a very fierce theater of war during World War II.

And he has a comparison quote to training camp in football.

We had a coach named Clem Crow who must have been nuts.

You got to remember, I'd been in a Marine.

I'd gone through basic training and spent 26 months in the Pacific during World War II.

But the Marine drill instructors had nothing on Clem.

So maybe that's why the Colts were so good.

Maybe they had that, you know, hard training camps that got them prepared for the season.

Oh, absolutely.

When you hear a war veteran talk that way with respect to his coach because of what they're going through, that that's pretty impressive.

Yeah.

You know, Art Donovan's definitely on our list, I believe.

So we have three other hall of Famers.

Now, I want to make sure we add the Pro Football hall of Fame lists, that there are five hall of Famers.

But once again, we have a gentleman that the Pro Football hall of Fame says wore number 70, Mike McCormick.

And we cannot find where he wore jersey number 70 in the pro football.

So we're going to probably have to leave him off of our list and talking about.

Because we don't believe he's a number 70.

I think Joe and I are in agreement on that.

Right.

So our three remaining hall of Famers are Sam Huff, Ernie Stotner and Rayfield Wright.

And which one would you like to talk about next?

Well, maybe we'll talk about Sam Huff, another old school guy, as we might call him, who.

He wore the number 70 proudly his entire career.

Five times went to the Pro Bowl.

And Sam, a linebacker, was in the College hall of Fame, Pro Football hall of Fame and the Pro Football hall of Fame.

But he had a tough childhood.

Maybe that's why he was such a fierce player.

He grew up in the coal mining camp with no running water, we found out.

But once he got to the to the NFL, he became the first middle linebacker as a rookie to start in the NFL championship game back in 56.

And he was also the first NFL player to be on the COVID of Time magazine.

And he said in response to maybe queries that Sam played a little too rugged out there.

He said, Sam Huff isn't really dirty, just a bit grimy at the edges.

And he tends to over dramatize like the villain in a wrestling show.

He seldom misses a chance to give the ball carrier an extra dig with his elbow or knee.

And one of his favorite tricks is a three point landing on the head of a downed foe.

It takes precision timing so not to be tagged with a piling on penalty.

But Sam Huff defended himself and said I psych myself up before every game.

I work myself up because I'm not really a violent man at all.

So another nominee for our top 10 hall of Famer, Sam Huff, linebacker.

Yeah, I totally agree.

Now I got to learn a lot about Sam Huffman.

I have my friend Larry Schmidt, who is from the New York area.

He writes quite a bit for one of the Giants Internet publications, Big Blue Interactive.

And Larry came on and talked about Sam Huff on Sam Huff's birthday, which was October 4th.

And it was a very special player to Larry.

So that's why I wanted him to come on and talk about him.

And he used to watch a program they had about Sam Huff.

He was the first player to ever wear a microphone according to Larry, you know, helping the giants to win six Eastern titles in eight seasons.

Larry claims that he was one of the first middle linebackers because the, the 4:3 defense sort of came in with that.

The Giants team of his era, I believe Steve Owen was the coach and I think they had a defensive coordinator named Tom Landry.

Yeah, that definitely, definitely helps when you have some great brain power.

And the guy on the offensive side that he practiced against was Vince Lombardi was the offensive coordinator to that team.

Those teams.

Yeah.

So Larry speaks very highly of San Sam Huff.

He got to watch a Huff play.

It was a big hero of his and you know, a great giant and still revered in New York City by the Giants faithful.

And yeah, Sam Huff definitely is going on our list or I'll get quite a few calls from the New York area.

I think we have a couple more hall of Famers and one I believe played for Pittsburgh.

And I'm not sure if anyone on this episode is a follower of the Steelers, but if they were, I'd invite them maybe to talk about Ernie Stotner.

Well, most definitely my latest trip to the Pro Football hall of Fame where I got to see you there in late June at our convention for the pfra.

I picked up a couple souvenirs in the shop there at the Pro Football hall of Fame, the gift shop.

I think we have a few of those on our number 70s list.

And he was definitely, I think he went in, was one of the first players to be put in the Steelers ring of honor when they started that probably six, seven years ago down at Hines Field.

But just a great defensive tackle, defensive end and he also played a little bit of guard on offense when they needed him to.

But just a tremendous player.

I can't say I ever got to see him play, but everything that I hear about him points to arrows up on this guy and probably another one that would be a great candidate to put on our list.

He would be.

And he wasn't a very big lineman.

He played at 6:1 about 230.

But at the start of the show I mentioned how small a player was and that was Ernie.

And he originally went to Notre Dame where the great Frank Leahy said, I'm afraid you're too small and too slow to be a big time football player.

And then he started out his pro career with the Giants, didn't make the team.

And Steve Owen, the coach of the Giants, says, I just don't think you have the size, son.

And then he went over to the Steelers where Walt Keisling, who we've talked about before, was a coach who simply says about Ernie, he's the greatest tackle ever to play in the National Football League.

So again, our third, I hope, nominee for our top 10 list tonight at number 70.

Well, you know how I am.

He's a Steeler and the first Steeler number retired.

And you know, all those great halls of fame and excellent career didn't play on very good teams.

But I think he definitely should be our third one on there, if it's okay with you.

Oh, yes, absolutely.

And then we have one more hall of Famer.

Rayfield Wright, Dallas Cowboys, played 11 years, all except a couple with the number 70.

He was also a co captain of the Cowboys as an offensive tackle.

But his story going way back to high school is that he wasn't good enough to make his high school football team.

And he eventually went to a small college, which was Ford Valley State, to play basketball, where one of the coaches convinced him to come out and try out for the football team.

And of course, here we are.

A guy who wasn't good enough to make his high school team eventually made it to the Pro Football hall of Fame.

And part of his job was to protect quarterback Roger Staubach.

And Staubach said about him, he said he was absolutely the best.

Rayfield was a big strong guy that was able to transfer his size and strength from tight end to tackle.

He also had such quick feet that he was able to deal with some of the faster defensive ends and even the linebacker blitzes.

If he got beat, I sure don't remember it.

So Rayfield Wright, another nominee, I think, for our top 10 list tonight.

I think absolutely he's definitely the fourth one.

Just sitting there thinking about as you're talking about, you know, he went out for basketball.

I think Gil Brandt, who was the director of personnel I think was his title with the Cowboys, the general manager let's say and you know, Tom Landry, I think they really like those, those tall guys on the line, you know, ED2 Tall Jones, you know, what was he like six, nine, you know, Rayfield Wright, six foot six, you know some real big bodies on those off offensive defensive lines which is pretty commonplace today.

But I don't think that was always the case back in the era that they played in.

Right.

Yeah, I do remember Dallas doing that a lot, scouting basketball players, hoping that maybe one of them would be that jewel that they could uncover.

And now basketball players, you know, you got like the guys like Tony Gonzalez and Antonio Gates and you know they're just killing it at the tight end position because just the same sort of muscle memory that you have in basketball and you know, reaching up and grabbing rebounds just like you're reaching up and grabbing a pass, it really bodes well for them.

So yeah, that's a great, great story on Rayfield, right though.

But yeah, he's our fourth one in there.

So we, we put all of our hall of Famers that we were going to talk about tonight, we put all of them in and right off the bat as our top four.

So I think that's good signs of things to come.

But the drawback on Marshall for Hall of Fame is he only made the Pro bowl twice.

He did win an NFL champion and four times he was selected to one of the all pro teams.

He was a defensive end at 6, 4 and 248.

He played in four Super Bowls for the Vikings.

I'm not sure if that's been broken or not, but he still holds an NFL record for most fumbles recovered with 30.

And he had 127 career sacks, which is second in Viking history.

And I know we just have some new information that was released on career sacks by members of the Professional Football Researchers Association.

So.

But what a marvelous career.

277 Starts out of 282 appearances.

And including that was the 270 games he played with the Vikings he started.

And that prompted coach Bud Grant to say about him, there is just no price you can put on what that man has meant to the Minnesota Vikings.

He learned the game believing there's no problem that can't be overcome if you run at it hard enough.

Gung ho.

That's his football.

So Jim Marshall, 282 games in 20 seasons.

Just quite amazing.

Yeah, it definitely is.

And this is one of the four guys that I'm going to have to go up on the soapbox here, but.

But this man should be in the Pro Football hall of Fame.

Even So, he's at 130 half, 130 and a half sacks for a career according to those statistics that were given.

But I mean, I think there's four players, and I said this on some other podcasts of our this Football by Number series.

But, you know, Jim Marshall should be in a Pro Football hall of Fame as well as, you know, I believe, L.C.

Greenwood, Bubba Baker and Ken Riley.

I think all four of those guys have been snubbed.

And it's really a shame because.

And I'd throw Sam Mills in there, too, I think.

Yeah, I put a fifth one in there.

And I understand, you know, they don't, for whatever reason, they don't like to look at the USFL career.

Sam Mills, I think that hurts him.

But even what he did in the NFL, he deserves to be in the Pro Football hall of Fame compared to some of his peers that are in there.

But I just hope it's not Because Jim Marshall had his most memorable play was a negative play.

Yes.

And you know, and it's, I'm sure he was embarrassed about it, probably is embarrassed, you know, all the days of his life about it.

But it happened.

But it shouldn't put a damper on a 20 year career of an awesome player.

I mean he was truly awesome.

You know, he was spectacular and really shouldn't damper that and he shouldn't be the butt of jokes and everything because the dude was, he came to play on Sundays and I hope that gets rectified and he gets put in a Pro Football hall of Fame someday real soon.

Someone to play that long and not lose his effectiveness and to stay in shape and still dominate was truly amazing.

So I agree with you, Darren.

I think he needs justifiably so to be in the Pro Football hall of Fame.

Well, I don't know if it'll make him feel any better and his family feeling better, but he's going to go number five on this greatest number 70s, I think on Josie Emba and Darren Hayes list.

I think we're going to agree on that.

Right?

There's no other solution.

He's got to be on that.

He's going in on day one of the 70s.

We have a couple of players from Buffalo that one may or may not or both may or may not be considered for the hall of Fame.

He was four times in the Pro bowl and he was six times on the all AFL team.

And the fear with him is that he's not being considered because he wasn't an NFL player for his career.

I saw that he was one of six defensive linemen who were named unanimously all league at least three times and the other five were all in the Pro Football hall of Fame.

But when he was working at defensive tackle in 64 and 65 for Buffalo, his defensive unit held opposing rushers without a touchdown for 16 straight games.

Which again is really a mark of a good defensive unit.

And he was a guy who played with injuries one year playing with three bow broken ribs and assorted knee problems.

Television announcer Paul McGuire talked talked about Tom once.

He said about he wasn't getting the recognition he deserved.

And he said if you ask guys who played against him, they'll tell you the truth that Tom Sestick was the greatest defensive tackle to play the game ever.

And so he had a Relatively short career from 62 through 68.

He is on the Buffalo Wall of Fame, but one that hopefully the Pro Football hall of Fame might recognize in the future and we might consider him for our top 10 tonight.

Yeah, that's definitely some consideration here.

Now, Paul McGuire.

Now Paul McGuire.

Would he have been a teammate of Systax?

Because then he wasn't he the kicker for the Buffalo team.

He might have been.

I know he was speaking.

This was pulled off one of his announcing duties that he had later.

I always enjoyed when he did the games.

You know, it's.

He was always enjoyable to listen to.

He has some great stories and that's probably.

Yes.

So another great storyteller.

We're coming back that a lot tonight.

Yeah, but told by a storyteller here.

Great storyteller, but yeah.

So he started 179 games out of 191 wearing the number 70.

He started every single game he played the last 12 years with Buffalo.

His opponent, the Jets, Mark Gastonau, who, who we have heard of, had a great comment about Joe Devlin.

He said he's the best tackle I faced all season.

I can't believe he's not all pro.

Devlin would line up with a step back so he'd have a little more time at the line of scrimmage to react and to adjust to the oncoming rushers.

But despite that long career, he never made an all pro team.

But maybe he'll make our top 10 list tonight.

Yeah, I'm just going trying to look at memory.

I'm not sure if Thurman Thomas was certain in there.

Did he end up playing in one of their Super Bowls or was that after him?

Yeah, I am not sure.

No, I know they played into the run, went into the early 90s, but I don't know if it was started in the 90s or maybe started in 88 or 89.

I'll have to look that up later.

But hopefully he got to play at least one that long of a career and have the team going right when you got done.

That would kind of be bad.

But yeah, but I agree with both.

Both those guys should be under consideration, you know, in particular Cestak.

But I have no problem with Devlin taking a look at him later on too.

We have to bring in one of Bill Belichick's favorites, another guy who isn't in the hall of Fame and that's Logan Menken, a guard for the Patriots in Tampa.

He played 11 years in the NFL, all wearing number 70.

So big bucks in those days.

And Belichick said about him, logo.

Mankins is everything we would ever want in a football player.

He is one of the all time great Patriots and the best guard I ever coached.

So Logan Menkins, 11 year career worrying number 70.

Yeah, I don't have any reason to even think about Mankins.

I think he's probably one of those guys that probably ought to go on just after talking about him.

Okay, so I'm going to put him in as our sixth guy in there beside the behind the hall of Famers and Jim Marshall.

Yeah, we have several more folks.

We have three guys that we found that had 15 year careers in the league, four of them actually, and we talk about them briefly.

They all have kind of unique stories.

Probably Harry Swain who played for Tampa, San Diego, Denver, Baltimore, Miami, played 15 years, never made All Pro.

But he was one of those rare players who started in a Super bowl for three different teams and of course played in three Super Bowls.

So Harry Swain with a 15 year career, another 15 year man was Charlie Krueger, all with the 49ers, twice made the Pro bowl as a defensive tackle and he was the captain of the college All Star game back in 19.

He's a member of the College Football hall of Fame, the 49ers hall of Fame and the State of Texas hall of Fame as well as the National Football foundation hall of Fame.

Wow.

He was one of the last linemen to wear the old fashioned two bar quarterback face mask.

So when he retired after 15 years, that was the fourth longest tenure in 49er history.

But interesting aspect to his post career was there were movies out in the past, I remember, I think North Dallas 40 was one of them where the players would get shot up before the game to ease their pain and let them play.

And apparently, of course we know this.

Apparently this happened in the NFL as well.

And Charlie Krueger had horrible knees and apparently he received shots in his knees so he could go and play.

And after his career was over, he sued the team and won 2.3 million in damages because it was found the 49ers were not truthful in telling him about his injuries and the danger of playing with them.

So they apparently gave him the shots so he could continue to play.

And play he did, starting 193 games during his career out of the 198 that he played.

So Charlie Krueger, another 15 year player, as was Bob Whitfield who played for Atlanta, then played for Jacksonville and the Giants, only made the Pro bowl once and twice was named to an all pro team.

He's in the Stanford hall of fame 15 years as I mentioned, as a tackle.

6, 5, 3, 18.

And Bob had a favorite tactic on the field called the headbutt.

And he was heavily penalized for that during his career.

In fact developed the nickname of Headbutt because he continued to do that in his post career though a fabulous, fabulous life.

He was the founder and CEO of Patchworks Recording Studio and has on his label or worked in recording with folks such as Beyonce, Whitney Houston, Cher, Madonna and a whole bunch of others.

So Bob Whitfield, 15 years in the NFL, but he's going to have a long, long career in the recording industry.

Then the final member of our 15 year club is Russ Washington.

A defensive tackle, played his entire career with San Diego.

He was a five time Pro Bowler and six time on all pro teams.

He started 196 of the 200 games he played in, only missing four games his first three years.

And in those last 12 he started every single game.

In 77 when he started square, I should mention in 68, retired in 82.

But in 77 he was the NFC offensive lineman of the year.

And at the time of his retirement, it still may be true he played more years with the Chargers than anyone else.

15 Years.

So a near career bothered him at the end.

But he had one time between.

178 Straight games before knee injury sidelined him.

That concludes our brief list of 15 year players.

And all might be considered for our top 10 list tonight.

Well, absolutely, those are some, definitely some great players.

Now you threw me off track a little bit when you started off talking about Logan Mankins.

You said one of Bill Belichick's favorites and I started pulling up my research on another number 70, that Belichick would have had when he was a defensive coordinator and that was Leonard Marshall.

And Leonard was sort of, you know, he was a defensive end, defensive tackle on those great Giants teams of the 80s that Bill Parcells and Belichick coach.

And he might have been overshadowed a little bit because they had another gentleman that was pretty high profile in the NFL on defensive time under Mr. Lawrence Taylor.

And you know, they also had Pepper Johnson and the whole gambit of some great defensive players.

It's a legendary defense.

But Leonard Marshall was an important cog in that defense.

And he doesn't have the Pro bowl numbers.

He had two Pro Bowls in his career, but he Wore jersey number 70 his whole career, which I believe believe was.

Was 12 seasons altogether.

And that spread out between the Giants, the Redskins and the New York Jets.

So he stayed in that east coast corridor there.

But you know, with these statistics that we have now, I mean he had nine force fumbles in his career, 711 solo tackles, 83 and a half sacks.

And at defensive tackle, that's some pretty good numbers.

And I think that he should definitely be under consideration for our list too because he was a definitely a significant player.

Yeah, no 79 and a half sacks.

Still ranked third in Giants history.

He was twice named as the NFC Rafael's defensive lineman of the year.

I'd have to look it up.

But Leonard was a Fierce competitor at 63 and 288 and obviously he could hit very, very hard.

And some even claim that he made a knock him out of San Francisco because another quarterback came up and played very well, little left hander, that's right, Steve Young.

And ended up.

They end up moving Montana to Kansas City at the end of his career.

So yeah, very good player.

So we'll put him under consideration too.

And I know, I know you've got some more here because there's still some good names left out there.

Oh yeah, let's see.

Henry Lawrence played his entire career at the Raiders.

Won three soccer balls twice he was invited to Pro bowl and a 13 year career.

So played tackle and guard.

Started 148 out of 187 games.

And that was mostly the first four years of his career.

After that he was a solid starter for the team.

Again, didn't get a whole lot of recognition, but a very solid player for most of his career.

Yeah, I definitely think he's probably one that we'll want to mention at the end too, because it's a great, great Raider his whole career.

And how about we probably ought to mention Zach Martin too, because he had some great significance to the teams that he played on.

You know, he played played last year and I believe he's coming back again this year, but in his that short career.

So we're looking at seven seasons.

He missed.

He only played 10 games last year and he was one of their many injuries on the Dallas Cowboys offense and they certainly missed him.

And I think he's probably one we might want to put under consideration with that many Pro Bowls and all Pros in such a young career and he's right smack in the middle of it.

No, exactly.

I agree.

Yes.

Okay.

Is there anybody else that you want to bring to mention before we start talking about two to put on our list?

Well, just another couple who play a long time in the league.

Not much recognition.

One was Paul Smith, played for Denver in a couple years with Washington, 13 years, twice an all Pro player, defensive tackle, defensive end John Fina played 11 years, all with Buffalo except his final year with the Arizona.

Wore number 70 those entire years.

No Pro Bowls for him either.

And then Jim Skaggs played nine years wearing number 70 for Philadelphia in the line.

Again, no Pro Bowlers, but wanted to mention a couple of Chicago Bears and I will close out and not bore you in any longer.

First is Herman Lee, gentleman I kind of forgot about.

Played 10 years for the Bears and from 57 through 66, starting 121 games.

Did not see where he ever made a Pro bowl.

But again he did make the won the league championship in 63 when the Bears were able to defeat Wyatt Till.

And then one other would be Dennis Lick from the south side of Chicago St. Rita High School.

Had a short career of basically six years.

He was on the All Rookie team.

So the Two Bears probably won't make our top 10 list tonight, but I feel opposite that we should mention them anyway.

You don't want to be chased around with pitchforks and shovels in your hometown, that's for sure.

That's right.

No longer quick.

Not that I ever was.

I think too much reading up on Art Donovan might have.

Gotcha.

I'm gonna have to find some more.

In fact, I have to find his book.

The guy was just hilarious.

He definitely was.

But I think we're probably at that point where maybe we had a review.

We have six players that we've put on the list so far.

Jo.

We have Art Donovan, Sam Huff, Ernie Stotner, Rayfield Wright.

Those are hall of Famers.

We also added Jim Marshall and Logan Mankins to that list.

And here are some candidates that put check marks by that we want to come back and talk about again.

And that's Russ Washington, Charlie Krueger, Bob Whitfield, Leonard Marshall, Zach Martin, Henry Lawrence, Joe Devlin, Tom Sisstak, Harry Swain, and I think that is all the ones that we said we want to come back and put under consideration here.

So we need four of those gentlemen.

And there's probably about eight or nine of them that we have to choose from.

Yeah.

Now one that I from the old timers, I guess Tom Sestek just again didn't play that long but was all pro.

And maybe there is some hesitancy to recognize him because he didn't play in the NFL.

But I kind of like his chances.

And I agree with you about Zach Martin is a current player that we can't forget and his.

His record thus far has just been extraordinary.

I totally agree with you.

Those are two that I would mention if you hadn't.

So we'll put them on as our seventh and eighth players on there.

I'm sort of leaning towards that.

You really had talked up well Russ Washington and I sort of liked what you had to say about him.

I think he's got a good chance at this.

And maybe Leonard Marshall might be the other one I would lean towards.

Yeah, I think they're two that we would be comfortable with and well deserving as well.

Okay, well, that wraps up another list here.

And can you believe we're 70% of the way through here on our journey through these jersey numbers?

And you've got.

You've had a lion's share of them here.

You've been on a blast, probably a dozen episodes.

And I know you have more that you're signed up for, so we're excited about that too.

So we appreciate you doing that.

What do you have coming up on your next episode of When Football is Falling?

And we go into the 70s and it's a bunch of fun stories.

I know you did something on your daily program about that.

It's just really interesting.

And when I dug into it, of course we're going to be covering that in this next book I'm writing.

But there's so much stuff out there about it and how important it was to getting pro football recognized with this one game and that people actually attended and they were excited about.

And even some of the old, old holdouts from the college coaches who detested pro football had to admit that, hey, this game is maybe has some potential.

So that'll be our next episode coming out in a couple of weeks, probably at the end of July.

Well, we'll definitely look forward to that.

And something like, you know, I know you mentioned a bunch of episodes ago that we were talking about.

I know you're working on a book and you're talking about those two Chicago Bears at the end reminded me of that book.

How are things coming and what's sort of the timeline for that book to be hitting the shelves for people to grab and read?

Yeah, we don't have a publication date yet, but wrapping that book up, the Forgotten History of the Bears and the Cardinals.

But a lot of I hope stuff that I hope there's stuff that people will be interested in that has never been published or revealed before, especially about George Hallis.

What happened to him in high school, what happened to him in college.

You don't see much about him.

Some of the behind the scenes maneuvers with finances that the pro teams had to use in the early days, their transportation, some of the personalities involved.

I'm happy with what it is so far and I always test it out with readers and maybe they're lying to me, but they said it's interesting so we'll hope that it is.

And, and we'll let you know first when we get a date for publication.

Well, excellent.

Probably the listeners are out there said if some knucklehead wouldn't keep bugging them to come on a podcast, he'd probably be able to get working on that book.

And they're probably right on that.

But we can't miss these stories.

We need you for these and we appreciate you coming on once again and sharing your knowledge, your great research ability and stories that you tell because they're, they're just classics, Joe, and we really are glad to have you be part of so many of these, this series on the football by number.

So thank you for that and we.

Thank you again and look forward to the next one that we'll be doing together.

We're taking a peek over at the chains and the down marker.

It's fourth and long.

We're going to have to punt the ball and get on out of here.

But we'll have another series tomorrow for your football history headline, so be sure to tune in.

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