The dialogue presented by Jock Brocas with esteemed guest Attorney Stephanie Prestridge focuses on the profound intersection of grief and financial loss, underscoring the intricate challenges faced by individuals navigating the aftermath of bereavement.

At the forefront of this discourse is the critical awareness of the potential pitfalls associated with life insurance policies, particularly the pervasive issue of contestability, which can obstruct rightful claims during an already tumultuous time. Stephanie explains her legal expertise and her dedication to helping families when unexpected insurance denials undermine their expectations of financial support.

The conversation further emphasizes the importance of proactive planning and open communication regarding financial matters, which can alleviate additional burdens during periods of mourning. Ultimately, this episode serves as an invaluable resource for those grappling with loss, equipping them with the knowledge to navigate the complexities of grief alongside financial responsibilities.

Takeaways:

1. Grief can be compounded by financial loss, creating a complex emotional landscape for the bereaved.
2. The two-year contestability period in life insurance policies can significantly impact beneficiaries' claims.
3. Open communication about financial matters within families can alleviate potential conflicts during times of grief.
4. It is essential to create a roadmap for accessing financial resources and life insurance policies before a crisis occurs.
5. Many individuals are unprepared for the financial implications of death, which can lead to added stress while grieving.
6. Beneficiaries should never accept an initial denial of a life insurance claim without appealing the decision.

Throughout the episode, the discussion is underscored by a sense of urgency and compassion, as both hosts advocate for greater awareness and preparedness regarding financial matters related to death. They emphasize the importance of having difficult conversations with family members about wills, life insurance, and other financial instruments well ahead of time. This proactive approach is vital in alleviating the additional burden of financial grief, which can be as painful as the emotional grief stemming from the loss itself.

The episode serves not only as an informative session about the legalities of life insurance but also as a heartfelt reminder of the emotional complexities intertwined with grief and financial responsibility. Jock and Stephanie's conversation highlights the necessity of empathy, understanding, and practical planning in navigating the difficult journey of grief.

Links referenced in this episode:

1. lifeclaim.com

Mentioned in this episode:

Between Worlds Journey

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Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, ladies and gentlemen.

This is Jock.

This is the Pillars of Grief.

Do you know what?

I've always got to remember to say the right show, because I do so many different ones.

And today I've got it right.

But today I've got a fantastic guest.

And this is something you guys that listen to me regularly, that follow me on YouTube, that know my work in grief, will know how passionate I am about helping people through a grief process, about helping military veterans through grief and people who are suffering on a journey or people who are suffering through mental health and prolonged grief disorder.

But one thing I cannot do is when everybody turns to me from a financial aspect and asks me questions that I cannot answer, when they're left abandoned, they feel abandoned, and they feel that they don't have anywhere to turn and their insurance claims are getting denied, and all this.

Well,

are you struggling with grief?

Hi, I'm Jock Brocas, a grief researcher, author, spiritual mentor, and renowned evidential medium.

Join me on the Pillars of Grief podcast.

Through personal teachings and interviews with experienced researchers and educators, I will provide valuable insights and support to help you navigate your journey through grief.

I will answer the questions you yearn to be answered, and I'll help you understand your journey.

Listen and subscribe to the Pillars of Grief podcast today on your favorite platform and start navigating your journey through grief.

Today, I have got the answer for you at last.

And I'm so delighted to bring my friend back, Stephanie Prestridge, who's been on one of my other podcasts, actually.

And we met, we clicked, and we connected, and I just had to bring her on because this is the solution.

Stephanie, how are you doing?

Well, thank you for having me.

I'm excited to see you again.

I'm so glad because I haven't told anybody yet that's out there, you know, about you and what you are.

And I will say this.

She's a lawyer, right?

So don't let that frighten anybody out there who's listening, because she's absolutely wonderful.

She's a lovely lawyer, but she's got a very unique story.

And for anybody who's grieving, this is really gonna help you when it comes to understanding, understanding your financial responsibilities, your financial pressures.

And Stephanie runs an organization, a practice, legal practice, called Life Claim.

Stephanie, I'm going to hand over to you for you to tell everybody about you and especially your story, because your story is wonderful as well, how you

got into this, and my grandmother likes to say so as well.

So I will tell you Life claim is, is a law practice, but our focus is on, on helping individuals when life insurance or accidental death benefits are denied, when someone passes, because it's never expected.

You know, those policies are like promises, right?

People hold on to them for years.

They're almost like another member of the family.

They're at the table, they're on your mind, they're there, you're expecting them, you're doing them for all the right reasons.

They're.

And then when someone passes and they are delayed or they're denied or they're disputed, it's.

It's another loss on top of everything else.

It really is.

And so that is our focus with our practice.

And, and what's interesting is that we didn't start out with this being our focus.

We kind of fell into it.

And I think, I think that's true with a lot of people and their work.

I actually was straight out of law school and I was a little too big for my britches.

I was doing international trade and maritime defense, and it was a great job.

I mean, it was the hoity toity.

Like, holy cow, I did well enough in school to get this job.

And I had arrived.

And while I was sitting in my office with the wall of windows behind me and the wall of all of my awards and A's and achievements and gold stars, all of them on the wall in front of me because I couldn't forget, right?

My, my mama, I call her.

You know, my mama is grandma and Southern.

I don't, I don't know.

I'm sure there's other words to use, but my mama called me and, and I remember, I, I remember what I was wearing, where I was sitting, everything.

I remember the weather.

Picked up the phone and I'm like, hey, mama, I'm at work.

What you doing?

And, and she's like, stephanie Papal was just diagnosed with Parkinson's, and I need you to tell us what we're going to do.

And, and to really, really put that into perspective.

You have to understand, like, I come from an amazing family and they're all high achievers, but I was the first in my family to go straight from high school to college, straight from college to a graduate degree.

So is the first to have that traditional path and have the blessing of being able to have that traditional path.

And, and I did very, very well.

I was an excellent student.

And so heavy is the crown that comes with that.

And, and I don't say that in a, in a negative way, like I was proud of it, but when you when you have those achievements and your family supported you so much through it, like.

Like, they're looking at you going, okay, well, now you have this.

You've had this opportunity to gain all this knowledge, and now we need your help.

And.

And I will never forget how humbling it was to me to realize that on the day it mattered most for the people who mattered most, I couldn't answer her question.

I didn't have a clue what to tell her.

And.

And so I tried to skirt it a little, and I was like, well, Momo, you know, call Mom.

You know, and my mom's a nurse.

She's an outstanding nurse.

And I was like, call Mom.

She'll tell you which facility is the best, where to go, you know, all of these things.

My mama, as she still does occasionally, very quickly, put me in my place, and she said, I didn't ask you where we're going to go.

I asked you, what are we going to do?

And, you know, what about our home?

What about our investments?

What about all of the things that we've worked for?

What about all of these things?

What are we going to do?

And it was humbling because I didn't know.

I didn't know.

I ended up.

I can understand that because I'm not in your position, but I've had so many.

Because I deal with so many people who are grieving.

They've asked me, what do I do now?

And I can help them in their journey, and I can do all.

But I can't answer this question for them.

I didn't know.

So I can only imagine how you must have felt being right in that.

It was.

It was a lot.

But I also, you know, like, I'm never going to be able to answer every question.

So it's one of those, like, it was a pivotal question because it was one that caught my attention.

And, And.

And, you know, today, if somebody called me up and asked me about, you know, like, can you answer my criminal law question?

No.

Nope.

Don't.

I. I can give you a referral.

But.

And.

And it's the same concept, though.

Like, some.

If somebody came, that would be a good question.

But.

But it's not.

It's not going to be one that makes me stop and say, well, wait, wait.

Holy cow.

After all of this, on a day, it matters for a person who matters.

I can't answer this question.

And I ended up moving home and helping to take care of my grandparents, and I drove their lawyer crazy because at least I knew I couldn't be their lawyer.

Right.

And I. I did.

I drove him crazy.

And he was a very good lawyer, very smart.

And he called me one day and he said, if you had any more questions.

And I was like, actually, since you've gone.

And he said, no, no, no.

I have three files on a desk.

Come work them.

And so he gave me a job, and I worked with him.

I learned a lot from him.

One of the things that I learned up front, though, was because I started that journey on the other side of the table, not as the.

Not as the.

The.

The professional providing.

Walked in with my mama and my papa, as.

As the family getting the advice.

And because I started on that side of the table, it changed everything for me.

I can't imagine.

Yeah.

And.

And it's like, you know, we.

You can read about it, you can watch all kinds of.

Of movies about, you know, like, the doctor who becomes the patient or, you know, the lawyer who becomes the client.

It's.

It's.

They're out there because it's true.

And.

And, you know, there's amazing lawyers, there's amazing doctors who weren't the patient or weren't the client.

But what really caught my attention on that level was my mama was one of the most.

Is one of the most formidable women I know.

She's so smart.

If I could be half the leader that she was, I would have.

I will be incredibly successful.

She's that brilliant.

And.

And I've never seen her shrink, never seen her back down, never seen her question her own.

Her own capabilities, her own insight.

And I remember sitting next to her in that meeting room, and she shrunk.

Yeah, she.

She curved in.

And.

And I learned that at that moment that that clarity was just as important as competence because.

Because her lawyer was incredibly competent, but her understanding and her clarity of what was going on was not.

And the greatest gift that they gave me was the ability to say, okay, I have the information.

I can learn the information.

Do I have the skills to share it in a way that makes sense?

And, And.

And share it in a way where you understand I will carry most of this load for you, but I'm going to need your help.

And not only do I want you to know what I'm doing, do you know why I'm doing what I'm doing?

Because just understanding what's happening and why there's so much power in that, there's so much relief in that.

And, and that is.

That's kind of how, you know, my journey as a.

As an estate lawyer began.

And then I've been practicing for years and years.

And I had a client who came in that we did an estate plan.

And as with every estate plan, like, we always look at what the assets are.

You know, what do you have, what do you owe?

Do you have any life insurance?

And in this case, yes.

And we knew that one of my clients was going to pass away very soon.

He had cancer.

And we just knew.

So we were preparing for that.

And in building a plan, we used that life insurance as.

As a foundation for how to take care for his surviving spouse, his surviving children, to account for, you know, a business.

We really were using all of these assets to make sure that there was an easy, excellent transition for his family.

And when he passed and his widow called me, I said, okay, where's the life insurance?

Have you started that process?

Have you, you know, already received it?

Is it in a bank account?

Because let's, let's go ahead and we'll start moving.

And she said, funny enough, the company sent me this letter, and they said that they weren't going to pay the benefits, and they sent me this check for return of the premiums that we had paid on it.

And, and, you know, my first question was, have you cashed the check?

And she's like, no, no, no, that it's in my hand.

Should I?

And I was like, no, do not cash that check, because the minute you cash it, that's a contract that you're saying.

I agree with you.

Yeah.

And then my next question was, how did this happen?

I didn't know this happens.

You know, I was.

I was just like, I had to pick my chin up off the floor.

Life insurance is a promise.

That's.

That's what it is.

This doesn't happen.

This is something that people have forever and they invest in and they have purposes for it.

And, and it's, It's.

It's a wonderful gift to give to your family.

What do you mean they're not going to pay it?

So while I was busy over having an existential crisis over this, my husband's like, it's wrong.

We're going to fight it.

And, and he is.

He's the best lawyer I know.

I'm good.

He's better.

He's so good.

And.

And I love how you really fly his flag.

But even your mother as well.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, I love my people.

I love my people.

I'm.

I'm the luckiest person ever to have all my people.

Like, like, they make me.

They make me a better person every day.

And, And I don't always like the process, though.

I'll just be fair.

Like, like, sometimes I wish that they would stop, but, but I, I, I remember, like, I'm sitting there with my client and I'm like, okay, I need to go have a moment, because I didn't know that this happens.

Meanwhile, my husband is scrappy litigator, and he's back there and he's saying, this is wrong and we're going to fight.

And he started that fight and we won.

And they sent him a letter.

They sent us a letter.

It was three pages.

It was not very nice.

They called him lots of.

Without using bad words.

I meant to ask you, I meant to ask you, Steffi, from the last, the last episode that we did on my other podcast on Help Lawyer.

I, I wonder, do you have that framed on your wall?

Because that would be.

Yes, that would be one way of the frame.

And I mean, it's hysterical because, like, literally the first two pages are.

You're terrible.

We can't believe you're doing this.

This is wrong.

You're wrong.

I can't believe you're doing this.

You know, like, what a terrible thing for you to even question.

By the way, here's your check.

I mean, literally, that is hilarious.

But it just shows, though, that it's, it's so many people get caught out with it.

I'm, I'm amazed at how many people who lose loved ones are left without the knowledge that they just, they take it on the chin.

They're like, I've lost.

They won't pay.

I've lost it.

And think about it.

I mean, it's just think about the timing, right?

You know, you're, you've lost someone, you're grieving.

You are in a financial crisis, possibly because now you're, how do we pay for a funeral?

Gosh, do we even know where all these documents are?

Do we know what was planned out?

You know, what do we do?

And you've got everybody saying, we've got to make all these decisions really, really quickly because we need to, you know, know how to plan and move forward and, and, you know, get all of these, you know, loose ends tied up.

Except we've got, we've got these problems in that we don't know everything.

And, and then we have this unexpected jolt of, what do you mean there's a problem?

You know, I, I thought it was taken care of.

And, and, oh, my gosh, I don't know what to do.

And when you're moving quickly and you're grieving These have lifelong financial consequences for families.

Yeah, absolutely.

And life insurance companies, whether, whether it's deliberate or not, my husband would say it's definitely intentional.

I, I struggle with vilifying too many

things, but I'm going to take your husband's side.

Yeah, I think most people do.

Most people do.

I try.

I try.

Um, you're just so lovely for me.

Well, I ride the fence.

How about that?

I tried.

I tried.

There's things that people do that are abhorrent.

There are some things that they do that's abhorrent, but, but I don't want to vilify an entire company, not all of them anyway.

But I like, you know, think about it when they're looking at it and they know you're grieving, they know you're stressed, overwhelmed, unsure, and, and that's leverage for them.

That's leverage.

Because how many people are going to just say, I'm done, I don't know what to do?

And I, I'll share with you.

I actually, I, I love Reddit.

I, I'm probably too old to love Reddit, but my kids think I'm kind of cool because I love to read Reddit, but it's, it's kind of like this unofficial probate court to go onto Reddit, because what you can see is what's happening in a state, in an insurance.

Like, if you want to know what's happening with life ins, don't go read a brochure, don't go read a fancy newspaper, go on Reddit and just type in life insurance.

And you will find, you know, it's

interesting because Reddit, as far as I'm aware, in marketing now, I think it's become the third biggest search engine.

It's, it's, it's pretty phenomenal.

It's, it's, it's such a great community.

And I mean, it's, it's, it's got everything from, you know, dating advice to, you know, I need help with legal advice.

But it's, it's, it's what an online community should be.

You know, most of the time you get all of these people coming in and feeding in information and asking questions because they just don't know where else to go.

And I, I watch it because it's real.

And, well, most of it's real, I'm assuming.

But the questions are, are exactly the ones that we deal with every single day, and so are the emotions.

And that's true.

Actually.

I had the journalist reach out to me and said, I want to interview you about this.

I think that's how I ended one of the interviews with Epoch Times about grief.

This question has turned up on Reddit.

They're asking this, we want an expert so that we can write this article based on this question.

And so it makes sense.

And I mean, I can see why that would be a good place for people to go and get their answer.

But I mean there's probably still a lot of rubbish on it as well.

Of course, like that is everywhere.

But you've got to decide whether it's

fake or it's real.

It doesn't matter.

Right.

I, all of the ones that I've read, I genuinely believe that they're real because the, yeah, they are the same conversations that I have on the telephone every day with clients or you know, I'll have clients that send me like email inquiries and they are the same facts every day.

And I actually was reading through some yesterday and just the emotions that were coming through so spiraling with anxiety, unsure of what to do, so scared to mess up.

I shouldn't have to become a part time lawyer to, to receive the benefits my dad wanted me to have.

Right?

That is honesty right there.

And then you take that honesty and you couple it with the fact that Reddit shows you the moral issues as well as like the contractual issues because you, you can see where people are coming in and everyone feels like they are entitled.

Everyone feels like they are, right.

So you've got this moral expectancy and then we have to look at it from the contractual reality because that's what life insurance is or accidental death insurance.

It's a contract and it's a contract with, with provisions and, and it has rules on, on when it's going to apply or you know, if it's contestable or, or how it's going to work after so many years.

And you know, we see it as the promise and it is a promise, but the life insurance companies see it as a contract and, and when someone passes away, they're just enforcing a contract

and they're, they don't realize that they could throw someone in an existential or a spiritual crisis because you're dealing with a grief of losing the loved one.

And then as you mentioned before, this is like another level of grief because you're grieving this loss which is compounding and you know, it's a potential, it goes into, you know, prolonged grief disorder, which is a catalyst because of the financial implications.

Right.

And it's, it's interesting because you can see, you know, people question is There a certain time frame when I have to do this.

Or, gosh, what do you mean?

Like, we've had this policy and, and now they're saying that they're going to do a medical review.

And, and what does that mean?

Do we just give up?

And, and more than anything, if whoever's listening, whoever hears this, don't give up.

Time is of the essence.

You know, Absolutely.

If you've, if you've got somebody who's delaying something or denying something, or you're just not sure, ask questions and, and whether, whether you, you know, go on a Reddit thread or, or you can send an email to me or phone call, like, because it's free.

Just, just ask.

And, and I actually answer the question.

Yeah, we'll put, actually on the screen, we'll make sure we put up life claim.com, go to life claim, where you can get that information because people don't know.

And we, we answer every email, we, we return every call.

And, and look, half of my calls are sometimes telling people, I can't help you because it's gone too far.

Or, or, you know, let me explain to you why I can't help you.

And it hurts, it hurts my heart to have to say, okay, you know,

I say that because I've said, I said to you before, you're a lawyer with a really deep heart.

You've got a deep level of compassion.

And I suppose again, my question is as well, is where do you find the balance between lawyer and this compassionate counsellor?

Because you're also seeming to give them counsel, and not in a legal way, but in an emotional way.

Well, I mean, I. Yeah, yeah.

And, and some of that fills me.

Right, to be able to do that.

Yeah, absolutely.

I had one woman who called not too long ago, and there was nothing I could do to help her.

Nothing.

It, it was.

I, I understood what the life insurance company had done to deny it.

And, and too many delays.

Like, like, it just, we were beyond the time when I could help.

And she was sobbing and, and, you know, her comment was, it's like my mom can't rest.

I don't think my mom can rest in peace because this was messed up.

And, and I see her name everywhere and I smell her perfume everywhere, and I can't rest.

And, and I just listened to her.

I was on the phone for almost an hour, and at the end of it, I was like, I was like, maybe, maybe your mom is.

Her name's appearing and her perfume is appearing because she needs you to be at rest because you're going to be okay.

Like, it, it would, it would have been a gift, but in this particular circumstance, like, no one was, was going to go without that.

You know, family was buried and, and no, no one was in financial devastation at that point.

And, and I was like, maybe she's trying to let you know that she's here and she loves you and, and you're okay.

And, and that's not legal counsel.

That's just me.

Right.

And.

And she was real quiet and she said, I didn't think of it like that.

And, and that was it.

And, and I wish I could have

given her different legal counsel, but I, I love that.

That's beautiful.

It really is.

But it's a joy to be able to, to be a resource if possible, you know, and there's some people who wouldn't have liked that answer, but it's.

I don't know, it's just how it felt at the moment.

I think it's.

I think it's important for people who realize that, that going through this, that they have someone like you that's a support, but not only that, you have a level of compassion.

You've been there.

You know, there's that saying, walk a mile in a person's shoes or walk a mile in a man's shoes.

No, I want to be in.

Kind of feminist in any way, but walk a mile in.

Walk a mile in a man's shoes.

It's true.

Because you have been there, you have experienced this, and it's because of your experiences that you dramatically changed your direction in the legal world to, to do this, which is.

I don't see it as a job for you.

I see it as a vacation.

I love what I do and, and I love working with my husband.

Just wonderful.

And, and we, we offset each other very well.

He's the brilliant.

I always say he's the man behind the green curtain.

He's just the brilliant partner.

He's the litany.

Oh, my gosh.

And he's the strategist.

He's amazing and he, he loves people, but his, his social barometer is very low.

Like, he, you know, it's like in short little snippets, I'm, I'm a strategist, but I would prefer to talk to the people and, and be that, you know, end of our business.

And so we, we just balance.

So when you ask, you know, like, how do you do it?

Well, I'm, I'm lucky enough to say I've got this built in balance with a great Legal partner and who.

Who understands where my skills, you know, thrive.

And.

And we.

We work off of that.

And then on top of it, we have a great team.

You know, we've talked about this before.

Like, it's not just lawyers here.

We have nurses that work here.

We have scientists that work here.

We have claims managers that work here.

And because we work as a team, it allows us all to kind of delegate appropriately, you know?

So you do not want me researching your medical records.

I. I look at them, I try to understand them, but you don't want to talk to me about them.

That's why we have nurses.

But it.

But it's not.

The last time we spoke, you.

You had a case where you had to ask her about the anatomy, didn't you?

Yes, I did.

And she.

She was.

She was most disappointed in my inability to understand.

But to look, it is completely aside, you know, But.

But fun story.

When.

When I got into law school, I called my mom, and I was like, mom, I got in.

I got it.

It's fabulous.

It's great.

And she started crying, and I thought, oh, she's so proud of me.

And as she's crying, she says, I raised you better than this.

And she hung up the phone.

You can't make it up.

Can't make it up, right?

And then the next day, I get flowers from my mom, and they're not congratulations flowers.

They are.

I'm sorry flowers.

So.

So it's funny, if you ever get to talk to her now, and she's so amazing, she will be the first to tell you that.

That she.

She did raise me better than that.

And it shows.

And.

And how I practice now.

So, you know, it's.

It was.

It was a good, like, you know, kept me.

Kept me in line.

So not just to be the lawyer, but to be a better.

A better lawyer, a better person.

Well, hello.

Well, see, I told.

I told you about that earlier.

It has a mind of its own.

I start moving and the camera jumps in.

Steph, I want to ask you if there's any.

Because there's people out there that.

That I know that I've talked about this before.

Anticipated grief is.

That's a big thing.

You know, we're, as you mentioned, you know, you're popo.

Is it popo?

You go had Alzheimer's.

I'm getting the lingo now as well.

At Alzheimer's.

There's people there who maybe they have a relation, has got Alzheimer's.

They know they're going to be passed pretty soon.

Is the red Flags for someone who's maybe in the process, they know their loved ones going to pass.

Is there something that they can do now to prepare, even though they've kind of dealing with this anticipated grief, but is this something they can deal with or prepare with the life insurance policies?

Is there red flags that they should be looking for?

That's a great question, and I'm going to give you a very lawyer answer, which is.

It depends.

So, so the.

That is so legal coming from a lawyer.

It really is.

Right.

I can't tell you if you're going to win or not.

But yeah, it depends.

It depends on.

I know, it's terrible.

They should have a class in law school that it depends class.

But I think that the first and most important thing anyone can do is have a conversation.

And it doesn't have to be right before someone passes, have a conversation with your family.

And look, I want to be very clear.

I understand family dynamics are different.

Everybody's family is different.

Yeah, but, but there is a respectful way to talk to family members to say, you know, I just need to know, have you done anything?

Have you written a will?

Have you gone to see a lawyer?

Do you have life insurance?

Do you have burial insurance?

Because they're not always the same.

You know, some people just go get a burial policy.

Some people have, you know, a life insurance policy.

Do you have accidental death?

Do you have it through work?

Did you go buy it separately?

And, and when asking these questions, be respectful.

Like, not everybody wants to tell you what they have because it's theirs.

And the minute you start asking about, you know, well, what do you have and where do you keep it?

And we always, we always tend to default with how much is it, you know, who's the beneficiary, who's going to get it?

Your siblings are also like, well, why are they answering that, asking that question.

Have you only just interested in the money?

Exactly.

So are your parents.

Yeah.

So siblings, parents.

Like all of a sudden everybody's spine kind of goes up.

And, and I get it.

I, I so respect that.

And, and I think that just having that conversation and being aware of how it can be heard wrong is just as important as preparing to ask it appropriately.

And, and when you go to someone, you can say, look, I'm not trying to get in your business.

I just need to know, have you taken these steps?

Are there things here?

Because when something happens to you, I will not be okay to ask those questions then if we wait until something.

That's brilliant.

Actually, I never even thought of that.

That's actually good to say that, you know, I, I'm not going to be able to cope because this is something I don't want to deal with.

Exactly.

You know, I was tell.

Told my estate clients, you know, if we wait to ask for permission, it's too late, because by the time we need permission, something has happened and it's too late for me to go get that permission.

And, and it's the same concept of I just need to know what tools you have made available, if any, because when something happens to you, I know I'm not going to be my most clear, my most capable self.

And, and I need.

I need a roadmap.

I just need to have some idea of what you have or where I need to go look.

Am I the person that you want to go look?

Or did you have somebody else in mind?

And do not be offended if you're not the person that someone named or, you know, if they, if they're like, you know, that's my private business.

Good luck and God bless.

When the time comes, you know, it's at least you asked and, and somebody's not being ugly if they choose to maintain their privacy, we have to honor it.

It doesn't make your life easier.

But that.

Don't, don't take it as a negative.

Just say, okay, you know, I have to respect that.

And it, it guides you on what to do for your own family down the road.

And then also be aware of, of how those family dynamics interplay with that.

You know, if you, if you ask these questions and then siblings or, you know, extended family members, you know, all of a sudden get their feathers all ruffled, you just come to them and say, I'm just trying to make sure that, that we all know what to do.

So we can come together and work as a team if we need to, or I can work as an individual and do what I need to do.

That is, that is so important because in my work in Grief Council on supporting people through their grief journey, a great deal of the questions that I get, Steph, a lot is like, I've fallen out of my sister, I've fallen out my brother.

We don't communicate, we don't connect.

How can I deal with that?

And when I go into it, nine times out of 10, it is a financial issue.

There's jealousy, there's guilt, and there's a.

There's a disparity.

There's a disparity between them, and they're disconnected and they can't bring it up.

They can't talk because one thinks one's trying to get over on somebody else or.

No, I get it.

Family dynamics.

Sometimes you might not get on with your families.

You can choose your friends, but sometimes you can't choose your family.

I get it.

But this is a potential problem that's waiting to happen because this also.

They can't deal with it.

And whether they're going through grief, everybody's grieving.

The brothers grieving, the sisters.

All the siblings are grieving in their own way because grief is unique to everyone.

But one thing that's not unique is this financial burden that has to be dealt with.

Right.

Death and money change people.

There's no question.

I've worked with beautiful, amazing families.

And it is still, all these years later, it is still shocking to the system to see how death and money change people.

You know, just, you know, and I don't, I don't know, sometimes you see parts of people that you didn't expect or you'll see.

Like grief just has this tremendous effect on, on how they're able to cope.

And, and I will follow that up with, you know, life insurance doesn't just fund a funeral, it funds a lawsuit.

Because at that point, if you've got death and grief.

Brilliant quote.

I'm going to use that in a snippet, right?

And then if you've got, if you've got people who have had unresolved relationships or issues, and now we've got a death, we've got a loss of, a source of stability in our life, and now we've got money and an unresolved relationship.

There you go.

We're going to fight over it.

And it's because all of these other things that we didn't resolve, this is going to be our new platform to do that.

And it's heartbreaking.

Um, but it's, it's, it is what it is.

Um, you know, on the, on the grief level, I guess I just, for me, Jacques, just letting people know that, that if someone says no, like, if you apply for these benefits or, you know, if, if they just are like, you know, we're going to take our time with this, or this is being, you know, reviewed or.

No, we don't think we should have to pay this.

Please don't just accept that.

Beneficiaries should never, ever accept the initial no ever.

You have the right to appeal.

You have the right to ask better questions, to have someone ask questions for you.

Do not stop at no,

because a lot of people as well, they're not Prepared for the cost of death.

Right.

I mean, I don't know how many times even I've thought personally in my own life, I'm like, am I?

No, probably.

Since meeting you, I'm now thinking of it more strategically.

Grim Reaper.

Great.

Can I just.

As a side note, no one has died because they came to see me or talk to me.

Okay.

Not the grim reaper.

She's definitely not the grim reaper.

Absolutely not.

But it does make you think.

And I had the conversation after we spoke last time, wife and I was like, we really need to take this seriously in something, because it is something that people are not ready for.

And of course, a lot of people that I deal with, they're not ready for the cost of.

And that's really important.

They're not ready for the cost of death.

Funeral expenses, medical bills.

Here we go again.

Medical bills, everything that comes on top of it.

And incident, incidentals that they don't even think about that need to be dealt with.

And then maybe education or the youngsters that need to go through it is so much to think about.

And when you're grieving, you can't think about it.

You just, you don't want, when you're grieving, you don't want to deal with anything, let alone.

It's hard enough just to communicate with someone when you're really in the throes of grief.

Right.

And, you know, I had a call from somebody that, you know, they were like, I'm just going through all the processes, and I just don't know what to do.

I just want to bury my brother.

And, and I actually wrote it down.

Yeah, I actually wrote it down because I was like, I need, I need to see this every day just to remember my place when I'm talking with everyone.

And, and it's.

I, it's not just those immediate costs for me, though, because especially with life insurance or the accidental death leak, like, people have had these policies, whether they got them through their employer or they bought them personally, they had a purpose in mind.

And, and look, I love the idea of life insurance.

I believe in it.

I believe in the gift that it is to family.

You know, I have it.

You have children, you have several, don't you?

Actually, I do.

I do.

I have several.

I do.

I, I, I always tell people I buy life insurance like most women buy shoes, but that's, that's, that's how I like to, to have my, my investments.

So, like, I have them for my children.

Actually had to explain to a claims examiner that I was not trying to, to terminate my children, that, that I, I actually was buying life insurance for them so that as they aged, while I, you know, it was policy that I got for them and that as they aged, if they ever got sick or something happened, I never wanted them to be without.

So I'm gonna buy it now when they're young and I bought policies where, you know, we, we were investing in them and then, you know, it's got a cash value for them and it was, I get them because it's much cheaper when they're younger.

Right.

And so now at some point that policy can become their bank.

And if they want to take a loan from themselves, they can.

If they need to tap it for income, when they're ready, they can.

So that was kind of like my, my long term gift for them.

They can go do their own investments and other things.

Yeah, but I believe in it, obviously.

I mean, yeah, because you shop like, like you're buying shoes.

But this, I think this, this makes me also think is what someone out there, whether it's anticipated grief or they're getting ready, because at the end of the day, you know, there's two things in life that are constant taxes and death.

We know that.

I don't think it was, I think that was Abraham Lincoln that had said that.

So.

But what, I, how does somebody prepare?

I mean, what, what should I be looking for?

Or should anybody out there who's like, okay, mum's getting older, we need to get life insurance, or we need to get life insurance, what should they be looking for in a policy?

Is, is there a, is there a golden policy that they should have?

Oh, golly.

And until I have like some, some, some marketing contract with a life insurance company, I don't think I can answer that one.

Um, I mean, right.

I should get, should get paid for that one.

Actually.

I, I will tell you, I think that there's some amazing companies out there.

Um, I have a particular, few favorites, actually.

Oh, golly, I'm gonna get in trouble.

You don't need to mention their names because they're not getting promoted on this.

But, but, but is, is there a particular thing that should.

I think you should go in prepared to ask good questions.

Right.

So when you're, when you're looking for it, most of us start at how long is the coverage and how much does it cost?

And those are really important questions because that may determine exactly what kind of policy you can get.

But questions, you know, how long is this contestable?

You know, will my rates change?

What I wanted.

Yes, I want to jump into that next.

The contestability of it.

Yeah.

And just, you know, what happens if I change my beneficiaries?

What's the process?

Do I have to go through my agent or can I do this online?

You know, just asking good questions makes a big difference.

And a lot of people, especially if they're getting their personal insurance, they have a particular agent that they like, and they really trust and lean into their agent.

And if you're not comfortable with your agent or your financial representative, you go talk to some more, because there are some amazing companies and some amazing, amazing representatives, and they will talk to you and help you and guide you.

I can't emphasize that enough to have the right person there with you.

And then as someone who's looking to possibly have to deal with that when, you know, a crisis happens, I'm going to come back to that very same conversation of, what do you have?

And.

And where would I find it if you needed me to find it?

Or if there's a family that's not comfortable having that conversation right now?

Always tell them, draft up a roadmap and just say it's, It's.

You know, I've.

I've written out where we bank.

I've written out where the life insurance is.

I've written out all of these things.

Um, it's in an envelope.

The envelope is in my desk.

If you touch it before you need to.

I'm going to rewrite everything in that envelope.

You know, it's there for your convenience when it's necessary.

It is not there for your, you know, personal interest.

Yeah, and just leave a roadmap.

Leave something where someone has a guide on what to do and where to go.

I think it's an incredible gift.

So red flags for me prior to death would be you can't find it, you know, like they said they had it, and you can't find it.

Okay, well, if we still are able to have those conversations with, with people, we need to come back and say, okay, is it through work?

Who do I contact?

You know, where's all the paperwork?

Like, like, like, don't, don't stop.

You know, just, just make sure.

You said you had it.

Are you sure we had it?

You know, okay, so if you can't find it, if you've seen a lot of changes all of a sudden, see this all the time, somebody will change their beneficiary designation 15 times in a month, you know, okay, a lot of changes.

What's going on here?

And look, that is Your right to change your beneficiary, you can change it 15 times in a month.

But I'm going to stop and say, what's going on?

What's happening here?

You know, what's going on?

You know, personally, what's going on?

Emotionally, what's going on?

You know, that's going to be a red flag.

That's another narrative behind that.

There's this change.

Yeah, exactly.

So what's happening here?

And then red flags.

Once someone has passed, you know, at that point when you, when you submit it and you know, the life insurance company, you know, sometimes will, you know, call you up and say, hey, what happened?

You know, talk to me.

What was going on here?

They are not calling because they're nice.

They may be very nice people.

There's a lot of people like me that want to hear about the cat and the coffee and, and what was happening.

Yeah, but remember, there's a hidden agenda.

Yeah.

They're, they're taking notes too.

And if, if you're sharing something that gives them, you know, a foothold to deny or delay that claim, they're doing their job.

But that's a really bad time to be taking notes and you're just talking.

Right.

So, you know, be prepared for that.

If, if you're not sure why something's taking so long, if you feel like they're sending you forms you don't understand, that's a great time to say, wait, I need somebody to look at this and help me.

I need to understand what's going on.

Absolutely.

Red flags are if somebody else calls a life insurance company and just tells them, I don't think that this is who the beneficiary should be.

The minute that happens, life insurance company stops because they are very risk averse.

They don't care about who's deserving.

They're really looking at, are we actually supposed to pay this person?

We don't want to pay the wrong person.

So they're very risk averse.

So, you know, these are some big, you know, things where people are like, well, I don't think it's the way it should happen, or how many changes were there?

Or hey, did you die in suspicious, you know, circumstances?

All of these are things to pay attention to and, and just reach out and ask for help.

And, and you.

I, I really appreciate one of the things when you talked about like grief and feeling overwhelmed with, with paperwork, of course.

Well, I'm a lawyer.

Of course.

I like paper.

Right.

I, I'm, you know, please send me everything you have.

It Makes me happy.

But you don't have to have everything together to go ask a question.

And sometimes it makes it easier to ask your questions.

And then whether it's me or it's Michael or anyone else in our office, we're going to say, okay, you could send me everything if you've got it, or I need 1, 2, and 3.

Can you help me narrow it down?

Because if you can send me just these things, you don't have to go through the whole box.

Just, you know, I, I can tell you exactly what I'm looking for so I can give you a better answer or give you the right answer.

Don't, don't feel like you have to have everything.

Dress right.

Dress just to make a call.

You don't.

You know, sometimes it's easier for somebody to say, okay, just calm down.

I would like everything eventually, but here's what I need right now.

And we'll go from there before we finish.

And time's gone so quick again.

There's so much to discuss.

There's a part that I really want to unpack that I think is really important for everybody out there that is grieving or in the source of anticipated grief.

You mentioned to me the last time and it shocked me and it actually shocked another lawyer that I was speaking to.

As I told you about this time barred idea, this contestable, the two years that seems a bit of a red flag and something that trips them up.

It's like a tripwire.

Because you had mentioned to me before that it's not the way it starts again, it's standard.

It's standard.

So I have never seen a life policy that did not have a two year contestability period.

And so the idea with that is that when you get a new policy, even if you qualify, so like they might do request medical records or they'll do a medical on you.

I think most of them do medicals now and you can qualify for the policy and they'll rate you and you'll start that policy.

If you die within the first two years of owning that policy, they have the right to do what they call a contestable review, which means they have the right to stop and say, before we pay this, we're going to go request all of these medical records back to, you know, the beginning of time.

And if we feel like there was anything in those records that you did not disclose, whether it was intentional or just due to a misunderstanding, that had we known we would not have issued this policy then, then they're not, they're going to deny the policy.

Okay.

Every life insurance policy has that two year contestable review.

Here's what they don't explain.

Anytime you.

I love.

This is like crazy.

So a lot of times if a policy lapses, so people, you know, hey, I missed a payment.

I, you know, changed banks, I forgot to update my auto renew.

Can you reinstate my policy?

They do sometimes.

But what they don't tell you is the minute they reinstate it, you just restarted that two year contestability period.

That's what that other, that other lawyer didn't know that I spoke to yesterday.

He had no.

Austin, if you're listening, this is what I was telling you about, right?

He did not.

We were, he was like, wow, you know, he didn't know that either.

That, that is a red, not only a red flag.

That's a trip wire.

That really is a tripwire.

Here's the one that actually makes me really mad.

So I want to say over a hundred million Americans get their life insurance through their employer as a part of a benefits package, which is just a tremendous thing to have.

And, and when someone either goes on disability or they retire, right.

Those policies will, there's rules, there's caveats to how they, how they work.

If you retire at some point you, I think it's like 30 days.

Some companies will give you 60, but most of the time you have 30 or 31 days to take that work policy and convert it to a personal policy.

Right?

You have to convert it.

By the way, guess what happens when you convert it?

You restart your two year contestability period.

And most people, when they retire, guess what, they're older, their health is not the same.

So it's just one of.

That must be frustrating.

That is absolutely crazy.

And then the ones with disability, this one makes me so mad.

People will go on disability and, and you know, whether they have long term or short term disability, they'll go on that.

And, and I really want to lift up like HR companies here because they're really trying to take care of their, of their employees.

They really are.

They have these packages, they're helping them with the paperwork.

And then at some point there will be a point where if you are not returning to active work, however they define that in the policy, usually it's like so many hours per day or so many hours per week, even though you qualified for disability, even though you're still considered an employee, even though you still have all of these benefits and they're still being paid for when you pass away, if you are not actively at work within a certain amount of time, then they will say that they're going to deny it because you either should have been actively at work or you should have converted it to a personal policy during that time.

And it's just.

And look, the rules are different for every type of policy.

The deadlines are different.

But, I mean, I will tell you, I tell people that those 31 days where you're looking at, do you have to convert it or not, those are the most expensive delays of your life.

Because if people don't know, if they don't know to ask, if they don't submit the paperwork, failure to meet that deadline, that is the most expensive deadline you will ever have, because that carries everything.

And.

And I think that's.

That's part of the.

The things to think about.

You know, the rules are really different for, you know, each policy.

Did you get it through work?

Did you get it through the military?

Did you buy it personally, where you got the policy?

You know what type of policy it is?

The rules are different, and the life insurance companies know that.

That's crazy.

Steph, thank you so much for being my guest on Pillars of Good.

I never thought for one moment that I would have a lawyer that's an expert in life insurance policies.

And I think it's important that anybody who's listening out there, as I've mentioned at the beginning, I get this question all the time.

People are left high and dry.

People are left with another level of grief.

They're going into a financial turmoil, a financial grief, if you like.

And I've seen it happen, especially over Covid, when they never.

People, you know, I've got people that I know are grieving and become friends of mine.

And, you know, they lost their husbands, shockingly, had gone out to work, never came back.

They never could communicate with them.

They never could.

You know, one of my friends, she basically lost her husband.

She couldn't see him in hospital, so there's nothing that he can deal with financially.

There's nothing ready.

Thought they were going out to work that day and that this happens, ladies and gentlemen.

So it's important that you get proactive now.

And I'm so glad that I met you, Steph, because I can now pass people on and say, look, this is the expert you need to speak to, because there are so many tripwires out there and there's so many people grieving that just even to get a little bit of help, like, this is light at the end of the tunnel.

Just know you're not alone.

You're just not tell them about life claim how they can connect with you and.

And get that roadmap.

Absolutely.

So we have a website, lifeclaim.com on our website are, you know, like there's two little forms if you want to fill one out.

Those emails come directly to me.

I respond to 85, 90% of them.

And we have other lawyers that respond to the other ones.

But as of now, I respond to the bulk of them.

Or on.

There is our phone number as well.

You can call.

And I'm typically here.

I'd be pleased to visit with you.

Sometimes I'm the one who answers the phone if you send an email or if you leave a message.

We always return our calls.

And I know that sounds silly, but I have to tell you, that's fundamental to me.

We return those calls.

And even if it's to tell you, I don't know if I'm the right person or yes, we can.

Or hand it a little more like we're going to return those calls, it just.

You shouldn't feel left out on that.

And you know, you can find me on this podcast or wherever else that's.

We're pretty easy to find.

Yeah, you'll get, you'll get Steph on here on the Pillars of Grief, but also on help Lawyer and the legal community that I'm involved in as well.

You can connect with her there.

But this is important.

Steph, thank you for being a guest.

I will definitely have you back on Pillars of Grief.

I think there's.

There's so much to unpack that.

And maybe what we'll do is maybe we'll do a live Q and A.

People that are.

Have questions can actually do that, because I think so.

So there you go, guys.

You know, Steph and I may do a live Q and A.

We'll sort that out at some point where, you know, we take some questions.

You can ask her anything about life insurance.

And this is typically not just telling insurance.

This is really is stopping the suffering.

Nobody needs to suffer.

You suffer enough losing a loved one, let alone having to cope with all the documentation.

You know, as you know, as I told you before, last year, my wife and I, we lost many family members and we've been involved.

My wife is still at the moment involved in trying to deal with someone back in the UK with documentation.

And here's the thing, you can't always trust anybody on the other side not to lose the documentation or not to have a footprint and so it's important that you have that in your roadmap as well, dealing with that personally.

Steph, it has been wonderful connecting with you again.

It's fantastic, Evan, and I'm glad that you are now my resource that I can send people who are grieving that need financial information or help with their life insurance policy policies.

Make sure you connect with her on lifeclaim.com it's easy to remember.

And we'll have Steph back on Pillars of Grief.

I nearly said the other one.

And also you can get her on Legal Oil as well.

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining me.

This is Jock.

This is the Pillars of Grief.

If you've got any questions about grieving, remember you're not grieving alone.

Your loved ones still exist.

They'll send you signs from the heavens above.

They're always around you, never disconnected.

And you've got the support here on Pillars of Grief in our community.

And now also with Stephanie Prestridge at Life Climb, join us again for another episode.

God Bless.

Thank you for tuning in to the Pillars of Grief with me.

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God Bless.