The intricacies of identity, privilege, and the media’s role in shaping narratives come to the forefront in our conversation with Nawal Musleh-Motut, a media scholar with family ties to Palestine. This episode doesn't hold back, diving into the emotional landscape of witnessing violence against one's community while navigating a world that often prefers to look away. We have a candid discussion about the dissonance between the sanitized narratives presented in mainstream media and the stark realities faced by people living through conflict.

We invite you to confront your own privilege and the moral implications of your engagement—or lack of—with these pressing issues. We emphasize the importance of storytelling in understanding and processing complex sociopolitical landscapes. And we challenge you to not only absorb these narratives but to actively engage with them, remaining present and empathetic in the face of discomfort. The episode is an invitation to reflect on the power of voice as a catalyst for change and the collective responsibility we share in addressing the injustices that permeate our global society.

Takeaways:

1. Our voices possess the extraordinary potential to effect meaningful change in our communities.
2. The conversation urges us to confront uncomfortable truths surrounding media narratives and power dynamics.
3. Understanding the ongoing violence and oppression faced by marginalized communities is crucial for empathy and action.
4. The privilege to disengage from troubling realities is a burden that many individuals are forced to bear.
5. This episode invites listeners to critically engage with the stories that shape our understanding of global events.
6. We must acknowledge the stories we consume and the responsibilities they entail in fostering awareness and solidarity.

Your voice is your superpower. Use it. Welcome to Ignite My Voice Becoming Unstoppable, powered by Ignite Voice Inc. The podcast where voice meets purpose and stories ignite change.

Deep conversations with amazing guests, storytellers, speakers and change makers.

First, depending on our relationship, you should care, because you know me and you keep telling me you care about me and you're proud of me and you. Whatever. So if my people are being genocided, then you should give a shit. Pardon my language. Right.

Hi, I'm Kat. Today's episode is different. It asks more of us as listeners. We're speaking with Noel Musleh-Motut, a media scholar with family roots in Palestine.

Hi, I'm Kevin.

Noel talks about the disorientation of living in a world where the story you see on the news doesn't match what people are sharing directly from the ground.

This isn't a conversation meant to shock or provoke for its own sake. It's an invitation to look more closely at power, media privilege and responsibility.

Some of what you'll hear may be uncomfortable. We encourage you to stay open, to listen with curiosity rather than defensiveness.

This is our conversation with Noel.

So, you know, maybe we start at Gaza, maybe we start at. How are you looking at that unfold in the news every day these days?

Well, it's. It's hard watching the lives. It's the first live stream genocide.

Yeah, True.

Ever. Right. So we're living in a completely new world, a completely new visual world. You know, there have been genocides in the past.

There's other genocides that are happening now, of course, in Congo and Sudan. And it's hard. It's hard watching, you know, my family's from the west bank, but Gazans are still our people, still all Palestinians.

So you're basically watching the live stream genocide of your own people.

And it's extremely difficult and you don't want to look away because they're your people and you feel beholden to witness what's happening and try and do whatever it is that you can do. It feels pretty helpless. And so it's a very strange. I've said to many people, like, you know, I'm really privileged. You know, we have.

My family and I have a very privileged life. We're living here. Not all of our family is. Again, we have family in the west bank, so we're much better off than many people.

And at the same time, it's extremely difficult and you just feel helpless. I was said to many people, like, we're all living in a completely different universe than Most people are.

And I think anyone who's watching the genocide and ethnic cleansing, because there's all kinds of things ramping up. I mean, people in Gaza and the west bank have not been safe for. I mean, this is an ongoing genocide, right? Yeah.

So this has been going on for decades. But this is, like, outrageous. Israel's. No one can stop them. Right. They're proceeding with impunity. Is that the word I'm looking for? It's.

It's very different.

So I think anyone who's watching that is like, this is a completely different universe that we're living in than other people who are going about their day or refusing to look.

And because there's been a stigma, you know, this association between Arabs and terrorism and Palestinians and terrorism, people are too afraid to speak out because of the Zionists in pro Israeli lobbies, which is part of what's happening on university campuses. So I'm.

People like me are sitting in this world where we're watching the genocide of our people, and then almost everybody in your whole life around you is just staying silent. So they won't say anything to you. They won't speak out. They won't. And you're just sitting there going, like, we're paying attention.

We're keeping track of who's not. And then people just back away. It's a very strange thing.

And to me, story is, you know, playing such a critical role. Maybe part of people's backing away is a fear of the story. Fear of they don't understand.

Maybe some of it can't even relate to well.

And, you know, I hear people so often say, wow, the Middle east calling it that they've been fighting forever. I don't understand the story. So I'm just gonna avoid it. Cause I'm gonna make a mistake. I don't get what's going on, and.

It'S not in my world.

Yeah.

And it's not something that a lot of people have to deal with every day. But the control over the story must feel frustrating to watch. Oh, and I can't imagine. I mean, I get frustrated.

I see it in your eyes.

Yeah.

The pro Israeli story and the demonizing of anybody that doesn't buy into it. I can't imagine from your perspective watching that.

Yeah. And being a media scholar, too, and a decolonial media scholar at that.

Because you're watching mainstream news and you're like, there's either just complete silence or it's complete fabrication. Complete fabrication.

And so in the west, you're watching the mainstream news and of course we know with the mass media and concentration of ownership and conglomerates and media pressures and all these sorts of things that of course they're not going to say things that are going to stop people from tuning in, in. So you know exactly why they're doing it. We're also in a settler colonial state, and Israel is also a settler colonial state.

So there's the ties between the two forms of settler colonialism you can see being enacted here against indigenous people and indigenous people in Palestine. And so you're seeing. It's all part of that pattern, right? So you see it, you know it's not true.

You can look on your phone and see the exact opposite. You know, you see children being killed in the most brutal ways. All the people who are being killed. And you're like, but this just happened.

If that, you know, if that was a white kid even somewhere else in the world, that would be on the news, right? How many thousands and thousands and thousands of people have been killed?

The number they can't even determine because most people are still under the rubble, let alone the children and so on. But no one cares. Cuz it's brown babies, really. And so you see how there's that narrative, right? And the, the checking out, people checking out is.

Yes, it is partly. Some people don't understand it. You always hear that. Well, it's complicated. It isn't complicated. It's settler colonialism and genocidal violence.

It's very straightforward. Actually, there really isn't a lot. Founders of Zionism, the founders of Israel have always spoken in terms like that.

They're still explicitly speaking in those terms.

So it's so funny that the, you know, the media is not picking up, the mainstream media is not picking up and reporting these things and it, it's like being gaslit constantly. I don't expect better from the media because I've studied the media for decades. So it's two things. One, people checking out, that's also privilege.

The privilege to not have to care about those things happening, you know, or the ability to check out is privilege. It doesn't affect me. It doesn't. Whatever.

I can be curious, I can watch it on the screen for a moment or.

I don't want to be upset. Oh, that'll. It's uncomfortable. It's upsetting. Well, how uncomfortable is it? Living through it or watching it happen? Like, you know.

But again, I don't want to get all like crazy academic, but it's like this is very much a capitalist neoliberal focus. On yourself, well being, don't let anything disrupt. If you know, the system works exactly the way the system's built to work.

You would think if people are telling you, these are my people and this is, I'm telling you this is happening.

Especially if you're an expert in the field, like, you know, you think people would pay attention, but they just, they don't want to, they don't want to do. And it is changing, though.

I want to say that with everything that's been happening over these last couple of years, I've never seen more people willing to speak out, more people taking to. We're seeing one of the biggest social movements ever that has happened because things have been shifting.

It's been shifting because people have been seeing those videos, they have been seeing the pictures, they have been hearing the stories online. And let's not forget the hundreds of Palestinian journalists who have been killed by Israel as well, who've been targeted.

So those people though on the ground are putting this stuff out on social media and the people who are seeing it, it's really shifted. The biggest shift I've seen.

Well, part of what we're about is trying to see the story and provide the critical thought, if you will, provide the tools so people who aren't academically trained, who don't critically look at the media can start to process what those journalists are putting out. Because part of the problem is I just don't have the tool to understand or critically get underneath and think longer term about it. So I'll avoid it.

Yeah, can we provide. That's part of what Kat and I try to do all the time with this podcast.

Can we provide some simple tools to start enabling people to see the greater story, you know, and what tools could we start with? You know, where do we begin with that?

I think it's like you said, just being open to wanting to know and learn and know you're going to have to do some hard work. Right.

Because it's going to confront you with a lot of horrendous things, but also it's going to challenge your privileges and all those sorts of things. But it has to start with that willingness.

And I think for most people, and I think that's part of the ship, what we're seeing is the shift is people finally get it and they realize it isn't very complicated really. And it is easier to understand than. Because now everything's being made visible.

But I think the thing to start with is, you know, there's always the risk of going and googling and, you know, going down the wrong rabbit hole or not knowing how to deal with resources at the same time, there's never been more resources available for people to learn. And even social media, as much as I don't want to be like, you know all about this, it has a purpose. Right.

And in this, even starting to follow a few, like Palestinian journalists or following some activists or starting to ask, go to an event. There's all kinds of event are happening in the lower mainland around Palestine that are meant to educate people.

There are account social media accounts, there are like online, I won't say classes, but there's certain resources or organizations that are putting out information for people to be able to understand. And so I understand it takes a little bit of work and not everyone is used to researching those sorts of things, but there are far more.

Or ask someone if you know someone, then ask them to point you in the right direction. But that's how you build. Right.

And I think that fights. What you mentioned in the beginning is helplessness.

We feel helpless in our own communities because it's not in our communities to see this being affected elsewhere. How can we help from here?

So that actually is a bridge to that feeling of helplessness when you're educated, when you can absolutely go out and join other people who have knowledge and experience and ideas.

Exactly.

You can form that community of support.

Exactly. And there's communities building all over, like, you know, just to speak.

Where we are in the lower mainland, you can go to protests, you can go to talks. There's events happening all the time that are meant to do that. There's online events too, for that are happening all over the world.

There's just a ton of things. And of course you have to, you know, look for it.

That's one thing I always say to my students too, when we're learning about anything, is if you want to know, you have to take do some work. The student said to me the other day, yeah, the student said to me the other day, okay, but people won't do that because they don't want to do work.

And I'm like, okay, but that's what's required to. Well, life is. You have to try. Yeah, you have to try. I'm like, no, just give me the answer, Noah.

Can you boil it down to a little tiny story? And then I walk away with it.

Cool.

You know, it's like people don't want to look. They don't know how to look at it. Resources, they don't.

I said, but those are things you learn as you start doing it, but you have to start doing it, and then, you know, it starts to build, and you have to be willing to ask for help and to learn. But, you know, that's a. That's a. In one of my grumpier days, part of me is like, yeah, people can live through genocide. You can go look at things.

Right?

You know, like, that's pretty simple. That's pretty. Because that's the frame of reference I have, which is not necessarily fair, but it also gives you some perspective in that.

You know, I'm watching kids, Palestinian kids, particularly in Gaza, they're still finishing high school while they're experiencing a genocide, right? And there you see these beautiful, like, Palestinian joy, right? You see these beautiful videos of these kids and their family.

Just finally something good happens. They're getting like, 98 on there, and they're still doing it. You know, we get so, so complacent here. Like, you know, you can.

Yeah, you don't know where to start. You don't. This. It's going to take work. You're gonna have to ask questions. You're not gonna feel smart all the time.

You're gonna get, you know, challenged in certain ways.

It's interesting because we've had a few guests lately talk about privilege, and that really hits me in the face just when you're talking about privilege. It's something we don't even necessarily look at.

Yeah, yeah.

Because we're complacent in our own lives, aren't we?

Yeah. And no. And that's hard work. Right. Whether it's. You're looking at race and you're looking at privilege in that, I mean, it's all related.

Or if you're looking at, like, you know, being here in a colonial state, you know, our privilege that we have versus indigenous people, with these lands, wherever it is, people don't like to face what privilege they have. Right. But I think going through that and being able to identify that helps you move forward.

It helps you to understand yourself and other people better, and it helps you to just be better. That process, I think, for a lot of people, and I've.

I've worked with people going through that process when they start to realize there's so much benefit to it, but having to confront it is really difficult.

How do you confront it?

Well, I usually do it because I'm teaching, Right. I'm teaching classes around race and decolonization and indigenous resistance and resurgence and, you know, whatever else it is.

And so we have to do it as Part of our learning is to, like, decolonize ourselves or to check our privilege, take account of our social position, and realize that, you know, different people, we have different social positions, and we move through the world differently. And that creates more oppression for some and more privilege for others. Right.

And then, of course, depending on what context you're in, also that you can shift. Like my privilege shifts depending on where I am. Right.

You know, and it's hard for people to do, but I've not yet met one student or one faculty member or one just person I know in my life who I've had this conversation with, who's gone through that process, who has not had a bit of a bumpy road, but ultimately come out and said, this is the most rewarding thing I've done.

And I'm thinking part of the catalyst maybe in our modern times is I think a lot of people, if we look at Canada and the U.S. are having their privilege taken away from them. That's putting a bit of pressure on a group of people that's not used to that. And we're seeing a lot of funny emotional reactions to that.

But I guess if we can stay curious as to why it's happening and what's going on, instead of blaming others, which is the easiest route, isn't it?

Yeah.

Yeah, it really is.

Blame immigrants, blame the government, blame, I don't know, so many different things, Right?

Yeah.

Those people, instead of being curious and like you said, realizing that these people that are living there are just people who are families who have a kid in grade 12 trying to graduate, just like you do. Right?

Yeah.

And they're dealing with all this other stuff all at the same time, and they're already in bad conditions before this even started. Right. You know, and so you can even think you can also apply it here. And I think all people should.

When we think about ourselves in relationship to the indigenous people whose land we're on, too. Right.

And I know I've had to say to students and colleagues and whatever it's like, you have to remember, you know, everything you deal with in your life. Right.

Kids, work, depression, health, like, whatever it is, all those things people, particularly people you know, are oppressed through settler colonialism or racism, are also doing all those same things, whether they're in genocide or they're in Canada and experiencing discrimination, oppression in different ways. There's still people dealing with all that sort of stuff. It doesn't make them better than you. It's not like a competition.

It's understanding how the world works. And why it works the way it does and how that benefits some people and disadvantages others.

So how do you leverage your privilege in a way that supports people as opposed to, we're all complicit in something, right?

And we talked about earlier perspective. It brings a different perspective to your life when you look at others. And that perspective really opens up doors. Doesn't.

Really does. It really does. Because we're like, as I talked before, like the system works, right? Like the way it's supposed to.

Education for some, but you know, like the education, media, government. You think of all the instit institutions, health, like all the institutions. And there's this, what I call master.

Well, not just me, but like master narratives. There's this way that the world is told to us and this is reality, right. And we're all just sort of accepted, Right.

I'm not going to start talking about hegemony.

Don't worry.

I can't help but thinking about it. This is usually in class where I break into the discussion about hegemony, but go ahead, break it, do it.

Break it open.

There are cards that are created that as soon as you begin to get a little more curious and really start to think underneath it, that house of cards can start to fall apart really fast, right? That's scary.

It is scary. But at the same time, it's like an awakening, right? Like, I know I'll always have students and they'll just be like, what?

You know, like they're just like, you've just blown my mind. I'm like, do you see it now? They like, I see it everywhere, right? And it's not like we're trying to indoctrinate them.

We're just getting them to think critically. Right? And once they start to understand there's a certain story we tell about ourselves and that we tell about others, why does that happen?

Then you start to show them evidence, right? Or even just in conversations with people. It doesn't have to be in a university classroom or post secondary classroom, right?

And they start to go, oh, now I see. And what you see isn't necessarily nice, but then you understand the world very differently and kind of things start to fall in place.

You start to understand why certain groups are unhappy. You start to understand why they're in the streets. You start to understand, why do we end up with Trump?

Why are we at this moment, exactly this particular moment? Right.

We have people on the street.

Yeah. What does fascism mean? Oh, now I see. Now I see what's happening. Right. But the. But all those systems are meant to kind of create an illusion.

And so you can stay in the illusion, which most people do, or you can sort of peel it back and. Yeah, I won't start like, red pill, blue pill matrix. Now, students often say that to me. I'm like, I feel like, is it the red pill that he takes?

I can't remember. Like, I just feel like I just took the red pill. Right. And it's also the other thing is, is like, who really.

I mean, it sucks to think about injustice and violence and all those things. Like, it really is.

But it's important.

But it is important. And particularly if you want to be able to support people who are affected by it, you know.

But I tell people, I can't make you care about other people. Like, I really can't. Like some people, you'll just. Doesn't matter what you say, what you do. If you bait, like, they just.

Nope, it's too uncomfortable.

And maybe it's planting a seed that's just as important and maybe that seed will grow in future.

Yeah, exactly.

So there's hope there. But you're opening the door for people to see. And not only the macro, but the micro. Like you're looking at yourself too. And why do you do things the.

Way you do things? Exactly.

Which is fascinating.

And it's like some of us don't have a choice.

Like, we were talking earlier, like, growing up, I didn't fully understand what it meant to be Palestinian or how things connected, or I just knew there were, you know, we were from this place and we couldn't be there and that we were different than that. Everyone kept telling us we were different because we experienced a lot of racism. So I didn't fully understand.

And I was saying, I eventually started studying Middle Eastern history and communications and everything started to fall into place. So even if you're experiencing, you don't necessarily understand it, but also at some point.

So I guess you could technically check out, but you can't really, because people are either being racist to you or they're, you know, have opinions about, you know, like, I could go on, but just like, I'm just saying you can't get away. Let's say when we were young, couldn't get away from the fact that we were Palestinian, even If we didn't 100 understand what that was. Right.

And you're a woman on top of that.

And I'm. Oh, yes. And then being a woman on top of that. And we were growing up in the prairies, immigrant and not in A city in like a very small farming town.

My goodness.

So it was really quite the experience. But we were safe, as my parents would say. Right. Like no one was taking our house. We had, they had. My parents had jobs in a business.

They weren't listening for missiles.

Yeah, exactly. We weren't living under occupation.

Your house wasn't being burned down.

Exactly. But at the same time, it's like we don't even in a privileged position like we have, you still can't get away from it.

It dominates your whole life in one way or another.

Right.

Even if you don't eventually get to that deeper understanding. So it's like also trying to explain to people you have a choice to not know and a bunch of us don't. You know what I mean?

What's the benefit? I mean, you know, I'm trying to pay rent, I'm trying to keep my job, I'm trying to stay awake.

I want to get a girlfriend or a boyfriend.

Yeah, yeah.

While I hear you talking about all this highfalutin stuff, I'm just trying to survive.

I just wanted to see an eye class.

Okay. Why on earth would I open myself up to. You're telling me.

Well, first, depending on our relationship, you should care. Cuz you know me and you keep telling me you care about me and you're proud of me and you. Whatever.

So if my people are being genocided, then you should give a. Pardon my language. This is the point where I can't convince people and people have their levels. Me and my sister talk about this all the time.

She'll love that I'm saying this but about how people have different capacity. And I think what I've learned over the years and learned by being Palestinian is the type of capacity one can have.

Like no matter what you're facing, they. What do they say they teach life.

And it's like I do think that some people, if they could get some of that perspective, it's not say we're better than you or you're responsible for this or. But just get some perspective so you understand. It doesn't mean that you don't have a hard life.

It doesn't mean that you're not struggling with your health. It doesn't mean that, you know, you don't have financial issues, like whatever it is. No one's saying none of that happens.

But if you understand the world more broadly and what people are facing, it actually might actually be easier for you to manage what's. You realize what you have, right? And I don't mean that in a bad way.

It's be like, this sucks and things should be better and they should be for everybody. But it, I think it would give people some perspective and maybe some empathy. Yeah.

And maybe some empathy and maybe some gratefulness if it's not there.

Your perspective on your own life, recognize.

Some of your privileges and feel grateful for it in a positive way.

And perhaps it too can start to introduce a little more empathy which can enable you to connect with others in a way that you never could and make your life better through the connections.

Yeah. And you might have better relationships and those sorts of things. But again, you can't convince people that.

And I understand that, like when you're really in it and you're in it, I get that. But there's, there's a, there's a continuum though.

Right.

And so I think the people I get really frustrated with aren't the people who are facing like a, like a life threatening disease who, like, you know, like people who are really just all consumed with just trying to survive.

What I think my frustration is is with people somewhere in the middle of that continuum where it's like, you know, modern life sucks and it's difficult.

But you know what, you have food, you have your health, you have a roof over your head, you have, you know, your children are healthy even though our medical system sucks. You have treatment, like, you know, these sorts of things where you don't, people don't have any, like literally nothing.

Maybe that's what we can do though, is get that message out. I don't know that legacy media, I don't know that corporate media ever shares that message. No.

And it's a little bit of a beacon to show where we can try to strive and that may open people up just to make people aware of that, you know, because in our everyday life, I don't know that that message is being distributed.

Oh, I don't, I don't think so. Right. And when you hear a narrative of like there was a terrorist attack and they're just trying to like in this situation at least.

And they're just, they're trying to wipe out Hamas and this and that and whatever and, and they're just doing like the flagrant. Is that the word I'm looking for? Lying both by the media and the Israeli government.

And so it's like you can go and see this stuff isn't like quite literally. And they've been using the same language for so long. Right. So I think part of it is too is like all of that is out there.

And it's now really at the surface of, like, if you're going online, it's not that hard to find, Right? So the stuff that actually challenges what you see in the news.

So it is also, I always say to people, and particularly my students, I'm like, okay, now you've learned that the media's not telling you necessarily the truth. And these are the reasons why. Because it's a business and they don't want to upset you.

They want you to come in and they work with the government and all these sorts of things.

Be happy. Buy things.

Yeah, be happy. Consume, consume, consume. Right.

That was Noel Musleh-Motut. We want to take a moment to acknowledge what it can take to stay present for a conversation.

Like it can stir grief, anger, helplessness, or the urge to turn away.

Noel spoke so honestly about that urge and about how the ability to check out is often a form of privilege. And for people living through violence, there is no checking out. Life continues under unimaginable conditions.

This episode isn't about telling you what to think or asking you to adopt a particular position.

It's about noticing the stories we absorb, questioning why certain narratives feel safer than others, and recognizing how systems benefit when we remain disengaged.

This conversation is exceptional in that there is so much more to talk about. And to give this conversation its due, we continue in part two, where we go into even more personal interactions, insight into Noel's life.

We chose to split this intentionally to give the conversation the care it deserves and the space it needs to be heard. Part two will be available next week and we hope you'll join us. As always, thanks for listening.

Find us on ignitemyvoice.com ignite my voice Becoming unstoppable. Your voice is your superpower. Use it.