Seth Pepper, a remarkable athlete who transformed from a novice swimmer at 14 to a national champion and mental performance coach, shares his journey of unlocking potential and the lessons learned through both triumphs and failures. We dive into how Seth went from scoring every game in the minor leagues to signing a $57 million NHL contract, illustrating the power of mindset in overcoming pressure and harnessing resilience. The conversation highlights the importance of embracing failure as a stepping stone to success, where Seth emphasizes that our biggest breakthroughs often stem from our most challenging moments. As we explore the significance of mental training, Seth reveals practical strategies for optimizing performance across various fields, reminding us that the human experience transcends sports. Join us as we uncover how dreaming big and letting go of control can lead to extraordinary outcomes in both life and athletic endeavors.

Takeaways:

• Seth Pepper's journey from learning to swim at 14 to becoming a national champion exemplifies the importance of dedication and self-belief.
• Working with athletes often involves helping them manage the mental pressure that accompanies high-stakes performances and expectations.
• The key to unlocking potential lies in understanding that failure is a crucial part of the learning process and should not be feared.
• Seth emphasizes the necessity of separating one's identity from their performance, allowing individuals to thrive in their pursuits without the burden of expectations.

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• Nike
• PGA
• MLB
• NFL
• NHL
• NCAA
• F1
• Netflix

Scored every single game. And then he was called up to the NHL, signed a $57 million contract. He was first round draft pick, millions of dollars.

That all sounds great, but if you're not performing, then that could be as much as millions of pounds on top of you of responsibility. So we're the first brothers to win a national championship medals in the same event.

You can actually get more excited from the lesson of bad race or really bad failure way more than winning.

All right, welcome to the evolving Potential podcast. This is episode number 35. Today I have on the show Seth Pepper and I'm Todd Smith.

Seth held the title of the fourth fastest swimmer in the world by the age of 20, only six years after even learning how to swim. He's been sponsored by Nike and won gold medals at both the Pan Pacific Games and the World University Games and ranks number one in the world.

He's a 23 time All American, two time national championship national champion and University of Arizona record holder in seven events where he earned his degree in psychology and a spot in the hall of Fame.

Seth is now an elite mental performance coach and speaker with clients ranging from athletes, coaches and teams within the PGA, MLB, NFL, NHL, NCAA, F1 and more, as well as Netflix directors, fashion designers, content creators, CEOs and businesses.

Seth teaches and talks about how to unlimit your potential his company through optimizing mental capabilities, training and identity, pressure, confidence, resilience, competition and joy. Welcome, Seth. Thank you.

Appreciate it. That was great.

Good, good, good.

So first and foremost, I would like to hear some of the results you've been able to achieve with others and a few of your most powerful techniques that you're currently using. And then I want to go back to definitely hear the story about you at 14 and how you got into all this.

Yeah, that sounds good. Let's see. For me, I think that some of the big wins have been fun, you know, working with an LPGA player in particular.

She had been on tour for 12 years and had never won. And so when I met her, I wanted to start with a challenge and I said she'd been second a bunch of times.

And so my challenge was, are you tired of getting second place?

And that was a challenge for her and for me because you're not going to make a statement like that unless you feel like you're, you know, a solution to that. And so she took the challenge and within about a year and a half, she was able to win her first title after 246 starts.

Wow.

You know, so that was definitely One of the big highlights I, I've enjoyed, you know, working and being able to unlock and get to that next level. And it was definitely a journey because at that time she was looking to possibly retire, just had back surgery and was barely walking.

So yeah, the profound journey with that ATP top five player in the world, work to win the next tournament and you know, again, just unlocking things.

Formula One, what is ATP? Can I ask?

Sorry, yeah, yeah, that is for men's tennis, so professional tennis. So yeah. And then you mentioned the formula race car drivers.

So working with some of the best drivers in the world and you know, just getting confirming messages from their team, you know, messages like thank you for making them a champion. They were able to get on the podium and that's a big deal in formula racing.

So along the way, you know, and then also one that is in an upcoming documentary and I use it as an example for, you know, speaking.

And also the power of simplicity, you know, making a simple adjustment that makes a big impact is Dylan Gunther, who he has, he, he was in the minor leagues of the AHL that feeds into NHL. And so we started having regular conversations and we were able to unlock something where he was able to go from not being able to score.

It'd been seven games in the minor leagues and this is a first round draft pick. So that was a, you know, pretty significant amount of games to go without any results.

We made a simple change, of course he has to go and do it so and take the suggestion and run with it. And he was able to and scored every single game. And then he was called up to the NHL, scored every game that he was in and became the leading scorer.

That team signed a 57 million dollar contract. And yeah, and then this year he was one of only 10 players in the NHL to score 40 goals or more. So that's like a significant marker.

So yeah, to go from the bottom to the top. And what's interesting is that you asked about a tool. For me, I'm always trying to make the mental and the emotional.

I'm trying to take something that's intangible and make it tangible. So having tools is kind of a practical way to look at it.

So with Dylan, for example, and this has worked for a number of others with similar results, you know, for me I listen and I try to empathize where they're at, because everyone is different and I have to meet them where they're at.

It's not like I can just stand here and say, well, I did all these things sometimes you know, when you started to read off all of my accomplishments, I always think that's an interesting conundrum because just because you can do something does not mean that you can, you know, coach something. There's plenty of very well known, unsuccessful great athletes are great at whatever they do, and then they, it doesn't translate.

So for me, and we'll, you know, sounds like we'll have some time to be able to explore. My story is that I had some extreme success, but I had even more failure.

And I think that's what makes it so that I can actually, you know, first of all, be in front of someone and empathize where they're coming from, realize I don't have all the answers, and kind of sit in the discomfort of not knowing. And then we kind of work together in that discomfort. So with Dylan, I could feel the discomfort.

You know, he, whenever he described what he's going through, it just sounded and felt heavy. And so I, I, this very simple tool, I learned it from other professional tennis players, actually. And they were twins. They are twins.

I still around them. And in order to help them to win their first title, you know, siblings can be opposites.

And so one sibling was really, is really carefree, just would go out and play and, you know, just do what he's supposed to do and have a good time doing it.

And then his other brother mentioned that when he stepped on the court, he just, he just didn't seem like, you know, whenever we talked, it seemed like it was heavy to him, like he wasn't enjoying it. And I, I said, well, why is that? You're supposed to be enjoying this thing. You're playing this sport, playing it, right, Keyword.

And he said, well, one of us has to be the responsible one. And immediately I was, oh, okay. That's what it is. Okay. So you're taking this thing very serious.

And I'm not going to disagree with you that, you know, accountability is important, but going out there and performing, you know, with this great weight on your shoulders is not helping you, you know, So I said, you could have that weight and that responsibility all day long, but I'm going to focus on you being in the performance environment. So I made it kind of up on the, on the spot. You know, they, they say the monkey on your back. So I said, you don't just have a monkey on your back.

You have an ape, and the ape is extra heavy.

And it stands for the stories that you're carrying, the stories that you tell yourself, which is the past, which is the current and which is the future. And so let's go to Dylan with this because I, I said, are you open to the, the ape?

You know, because I, I asked Dylan, you know what, what's it like for you when you step on the ice? And he said, oh, you know, and I could tell. And so I, I, I filled in the blanks to see if I was right. I said, does it feel heavy? Do you feel tired?

And he said, yeah, exactly. Like, how do you know that? Because I'm in great shape, but when I step on the ice, I just feel really, really out of shape and tired.

I said, yeah, and it's probably, it feels like a job job, one that you just maybe even resentful for, you know, because you're supposed to love this thing. And it really is something that, you know, you almost feel forced to do. And, and so he's like, yeah, exactly.

I didn't even want to get on the plane to go the next day to the next competition. So I said, we got the ape and told him about the tennis players.

And the whole idea is you have a choice on whether or not you put the ape on your shoulders. It's not like it's forced. So you pick up the ape and put it on your shoulders. When you think about the past, so for him, he's a national hero.

He's scored the goal, gave the gold winning goal for the world championship, junior national champions or junior world champion team from Canada. And so he, he had this, you know, career in the past and then the current was, he was first round draft pick, millions of dollars.

That all sounds great, but if you're not performing, then that's could be as much as millions of pounds, you know, on top of you of responsibility and you know, maybe it's even a fan base that's not super nice or, you know, it could be a lot of different things. So especially if you're carrying it around and then the future is your dreams.

So of course a hockey player wants to play in the Stanley cup and you know, realize those childhood dreams and, and that probably feels really heavy and maybe even getting further away. And he said yes to all of the above. And so I said, okay, tonight you have a game. Just run a little test. We'll test this out.

The ape does not go on the ice. You can carry it all day long, kind of like the tennis player.

I told him, you could be responsible and heavy and serious and all that stuff all day long, but for the time of the, the match, I want the Ape does not get to go out there. Okay? So I said the same thing to Dylan. He said, sure, I like that.

And then I said, take me back to what it was like to play this sport when you were 10 years old. Now, there's a reason to the age, you know, that your. Your best level of performance. It's not just sports.

It's just life is in the flow state, the zone, the moment being present. Those are kind of the catchphrases for basically the same state. And so we are in that flow or in the zone.

When we're little kids, all the way up until 8, we're like that all the time, which just basically means we're just fully present. Our experience is the five senses. And we just like, you know, everything is about just doing and it's not thinking.

And so I was like, when you were 10, and the reason why I chose 10 is because you're two years older and you're kind of waking up, so you're making choices, but you're also majority of your time is still in that flow, in the zone. I said, when you were 10, what was hockey for you? And you can imagine the same with the tennis players. And he said, well, it really is pretty simple.

It was just like, see puck, hip puck. I said, exactly. And. And then I said, but what was the experience? Also because seapock, hip puck, that's your sight. What about smelling? Oh, yeah.

When you're in arena, you know, an ice arena, it smells different. Yeah. Yeah. And you like that? Oh, love it. You know, it reminds you that you're playing hockey. I said, okay. And then what else?

And then he went into all the different other senses. Anywhere from, you know, good skating really fast and feeling winded his face. I was like, okay, imagine that. Doesn't that feel good?

He's like, yeah, I love going fast just for that. And I said, okay, what else? And he goes, well, I can. When I. I go really fast, my skates, they cut the ice just straight and I can hear it.

There's this particular sound that they make. See how we have all these senses and when we're a little kid, we're just completely immersed in senses. Not thought, not story, right?

And so I said, you know, you sound a lot like Kobe, Kobe Bryant.

I use him as an, as an example because he kind of serves as an archetype of someone that really broke down the progress of getting good at stuff mastery. Because he wasn't just a natural, talented basketball player. He definitely had ability.

But his great, I think Strength tool was his mind, you know, breaking things down and rebuilding them.

And so I said, you sound exactly like Kobe's, because Kobe was all about hearing the arena, you know, watching the rim and how the basket is, you know, is. Is just right. And how the. The ball, you know, makes these sounds and the smell and all those different things. And I said, you sound exactly like him.

And so I said, tonight, what I want you to do is I want you to go to this game and the ape doesn't go across. They. They have like a. A doorway. So that. That's called the gate. So the.

Oh, yeah.

Not cross the gate. Okay? And then I said, I want you to just. No plays, nothing. I want to see puck hit puck. I want you to skate really fast face.

I want you to just hear everything that's going on in the cutting of the ice with your skates and all that stuff. And I just want you to go back to being 10 years old, and that was it. And so, you know, I already told you the end result, and it was that simple.

And so our conversation revolves around this. We still meet on a regular basis of different examples from different sports and different areas of basically.

I mean, there's a lot of other tools that I use, but that's like a really simple one that people can access right away. And, you know, there's all kinds of exam.

They just had the NBA Finals, you know, and there was an example of someone on the New York Knicks who was talking about, you know, this outstanding performance he had had, and he's like, I don't know what it was. It was like I was. Was just like this little kid, and I started having fun, and it just was so easy, and I felt like everything was effortless.

Well, that's where the flow state gets its name. One thing naturally or easily flows into the next. Right? So it's just basically kind of waking us up to, what is this all about?

So I like to keep it really simple and say it's. It's about humans and the human condition and how do we not just survive, but thrive.

I love that. I love that. So, real quick, how. How would you. If someone asked you, what is mental performance?

I like to ask all my guests that, what is mental performance in your own words?

Well, to me, it's a simple equation. Which is your optimal performance, whatever you want to call that. You being at your best equals your ability.

Right?

I'm not saying talent will not use the T word. Your ability, right. Minus resistance. So the only thing that holds you back is resistance.

You could call it noise, you could call it a lot of different things, but we'll just call it resistance. And resistance is created by you. So when people will ask me, what do you do? And the simplest answer is, a lot of times it's just.

It's just me helping people get out of their own way, because we really are the ones that get in our own way. And I can speak firsthand that, you know, some of my biggest failures came because I did it to myself, not because someone else did it to me.

Love that. I love that. That's a great explanation. Super simple. Okay, so now. Now you're 20, and you're one of the fastest swimmers in the world.

How do you get to this point? Let's go back.

Okay, So I was 14. So 20 sounds older. Ish. But if you consider I learned how to swim when I was 14. Most people learn their sport, you know, at a young age.

Probably six is, you know, kind of an average age. And swimming involves a different medium. So it's not just, you know, walking, running, or, you know, doing.

Doing things that you might naturally already be kind of doing. Swimming is different if. Especially if you don't know how to swim. And so I just fell in love with the Olympics from a very young age.

But I wasn't in a family where we were exposed to any sports. My parents were. They. My dad built guitars, and my mom was an author. So I was surrounded by, you know, just different. Different people.

They were artists, I guess you could say. And so sports was not something they ever talked about. We never watched it, except watching the Olympics was probably about it.

And so I just came up with this crazy idea, you know, I mean. I mean, I guess I would say it more. The idea kind of found me. I mean, I felt inspired by this thing called the Olympics.

And I think it was the Olympic. Not just the Olympic dream, but the Olympic experience, you know, Now. Now I understand it because I've been on the other end of it, of going as. As a.

As an audience member. And now I realize what I was really searching for, because if you get a chance to go to the Olympics, the World cup might be similar.

But the Olympics is definitely just like it is where the world comes together and just has a big celebration of humanity, and it just happens to be centered around sports. So that's what I think I was really striving for. It wasn't. I thought it was the Olympic gold, but I think it was deeper than that.

So I started studying the Olympics. Didn't Have a sport, narrowed it down to swimming. And so there's a girl that won. She won a gold medal. Timing. I always believe in timing.

And announcer asked her, if someone out there wants to do what you just did, what would you. What would you tell them? And I remember saying, she's speaking to me, you know, whatever she says, I'm going to do it.

Nice.

So I came from a small town, and she said, you know, I went through a ymca, so I didn't even know if we had a ymca. So I looked it up, and we did, and I went down to the pool, and, you know, they walked up to the head coach. I said, I want to go to the Olympics.

Can you help me? Now, that's a very specific, clear question, and it's a little strange. Probably never heard anyone be that.

Very ambitious.

Yes. Yes. I'm not just here to be, you know, good. I want to go to the top. I want to be the best on the planet.

And so he smiled because he's got a great sense of humor. And he said, well, do you know how to swim? I said, no, I don't. And he started laughing.

And he goes, okay, no problem, but you're gonna have to go learn with the little kids. And so I was put with second graders, so they're eight years old, nurse, half my height.

And, you know, the reason why I tell that part is, first of all, it gives you context of, like, where I was really starting. I was really starting from the beginning, you know, with nothing. But it really gave me this space again.

What we were talking about, Dylan, was that he had a past in the past was he was carrying, and it was actually not just slowing him down, but destroying him, his career, at least. And I had no past.

So the contrast helps me that I know that if we can let go of your past, then that's like the beginning of really speeding up the process of improvement, because you're not really living in this winning and losing space. You're in the space of what we were talking about with Kobe. You're in a learning space. Right?

So everything was about learning, and it really wasn't about failure, because I was just. I. I remember the first race, I. It was down and back, and I made it down, but I couldn't make it back. And I think I drank half the pool. Right?

Oh, no.

Yeah, it was. It was brutal. I never thought I'd quit anything, but I literally couldn't go anymore.

Right.

I might drown. So that's where I started. Um, but. But at the same Time my dad.

And I think this was the advantage of having parents that didn't know anything but were loving and supporting and in the idea of just going after whatever you want. And so my dad always had books around on self improvement, all kinds of different things.

And so I thought like, hey, this is the perfect project to see if those books actually work. So that's what I started doing.

And he was also really helpful in saying, okay, well I'm reading this book and maybe this might be interesting, this might be interesting. And he had this one book that changed my life. And in it, it had a few pages that described this study of basketball players in Australia.

And they took this group, three groups actually, and they were shooting free throws and one group did traditional free throw training. And then they had another group that didn't do anything so that they could compare.

And then they had another group that all they did was work on the mental side of things. And they didn't even touch a basketball for three months afterwards. They measured them all. The group that was physical, traditional, it improved 24%.

The group that didn't do anything, didn't get anything. Nothing happened with that group. And then the group that did the mental improved 23%. So almost the same amount physical.

So immediately I started doing addition and I was like, okay, 24, 23, put those together, I'm going to exponentially improve. I'm going to go, you know, have an edge, you know, X factor. And so I just started to dig into like, okay, how do you train your mind?

What are some of the tools?

And you know, I think we also, my family had like this sort of spirituality, if you will, or belief or faith or something in being able to kind of create your futures. Because a lot of the self help books were about manifesting and you know, thoughts becoming something and law, law of attraction stuff.

Y So a lot of that stuff now is really popular. But. But back then no one was talking about it. And so for me it was like, okay, how do I, you know, kind of. You hear this a lot now.

I mean, the NBA finals, someone was saying, speak it into existence. So now these are like phrases and techniques that are becoming more and more mainstream.

So for me it was always about tricking my mind into believing that I was already at the destination. And so subconscious was the area that I really focused on.

You know, your subconscious drives the car so that you don't even need to think about driving a car, you know, and to really wake people up to, you realize, like, you don't have to Think about driving to the store and you can multitask and have a phone call on the way. Right. Like that's miraculous if you really think about it.

And what if you could take that power because it's like computer, you know, super computer level processing.

What if you did that so that you had, you know, GPS coordinates of your goals and you're speaking them into existence and you're doing this on a long term basis and you just find yourself, you know, becoming your goals is what I call it now, rather than trying to achieve something. And so that's what I did is I just used all that stuff in the books and got creative with my own version. And so I, I got a Sports Illustrated with.

It was the Olympic edition and they had Pablo Morales, who was a famous Olympian. And so I cut his picture out and then I took my picture and I put them on the wall so that they were touching. And again, this is subconscious.

This is like I, you know, back then we didn't have vision boards. No one was doing anything like that. So it was more like almost like a post it note, you know, a sticky of just putting it up.

And every time I'd see it, it would remind me to think about it.

Right.

And have this on now I would call it an ongoing conversation with the future.

Nice.

And so in four years after learning how to swim, I became the state champion. And then there. Yeah, that's pretty short period of time.

Yeah.

And it was doing all these really weird, like it was the mother of invention is necessity. And so I created this incredible necessity to get to the Olympics. And you find ways to, to get there.

If that's your, your focus, if that's your obsession. You know, the Kobe Bryant says in his Mamba mentality, obsession is not an option. That, that, that's rule number one.

And it's just basically fall in love with the. You don't have to fall in love with the thing.

Like you don't have to fall in love with basketball or swimming, but you at least have to kind of fall in love with the process of getting better, right? Yep, that's key. And so for me, I was just so focused on this goal and, you know, now I reflect on it and it wasn't even really about swimming.

Swimming was just something I chose to get there. I really feel like I could have chose a different sport and got there because it wasn't about natural ability.

It was just basically just creating this thing and just physically and mentally dedicating every resource I had towards it. And it Just happened to happen in, in a swimming pool. So four years state champion. I reach out to all the top 20 schools.

So everything for me is kind of like a spreadsheet. So very deliberate, very focused. So top 20 schools. I wrote a letter to each one. I put together like a little packet that was like all my best stuff.

And it was basically saying, hey, I just learned how to swim and look at what I've done in four years. Imagine what we could do together. So it's kind of like a mission statement and I got a really good response from it.

And so I chose to be in the most competitive environment was the, the conference, Pacific Conference, where most of the Olympians were. And, and I went to the University of Arizona. And my second year I'm going against Anthony Nesty, who was the gold medalist.

And I'm beating him most of the way until the final stroke. So that's how he won the gold medal. That's how he beat me.

Wow.

So that's just six years from learning how to swim, having the coach laugh. And here I was, I did it again the next year, same guy, same scenario. And then finally I won the national championship my final year.

And so two time national champion and went the fastest split ever recorded. So yeah, that's kind of like maybe a good point to, you know, the start to kind of getting that launch.

And that was kind of the launch into the more international space. And then my brother, if you're interested, I can tell you a little bit about my brother because he was kind of, he was the first.

Yeah, definitely. Let's, let's come back to that in a second.

I'm curious, first and foremost, did you have any sort of feelings about starting at the age of 14 and being put with, you know, the, the 8 year olds, was there like, oh God, this is embarrassing or is there any of that? Or was your goal just so, so important to you that that just didn't even come across your mind?

I'm curious how, how you might have handled that, I guess mentally.

Well, there were little moments that I can remember. Embarrassment just because my friends were my age on the team.

And then I'd have to say goodbye to them and then I'd have to go get my butt kicked by their younger brother. So there was moments as a teenager going, oh, this is a little awkward.

But ultimately, no, I mean, to me it's like if you just are obsessed about getting somewhere, you'll do anything and just access was all I was looking for. And, and so no. And it didn't last for very long. You know, I got to the point where I could make it up and back and I could beat the kids.

And then I'm you, you know, you get, you move up and you keep moving up. So I think if you're obsessed enough, you stop taking the results personally.

You know, I think that's a big thing that I try to get across now is that you choose if to you choose whether or not failure exists. And so again, to steal a line from Kobe, Kobe said failure is a figment of your imagination. It doesn't even exist.

It's, you know, it's just a result that you decided to make into something. And he said, you can't really point to failure. And that's the way I approached it was that I never failed.

And in fact, later on, my university coach, we had a lot of success together. And then he went on to become the national team.

So the USA Swimming team coach, first head coach for the Olympic team and then the director of USA Swimming. So he was Michael Phelps. Like he was in charge of, of all of those Olympics. So he's around the best of the best.

And he said, the thing that set you apart, Seth, is that I saw you get really excited from really bad races that you could learn a lot as opposed to easy wins.

And so all of these top level like performance tips or you know, tools, tricks, whatever you want to call each, each of them, a lot of them are composed of tiny little switches where you turn. It's almost like a light switch. You flip from one to the other. So one is failure.

So failure is actually information and you actually gain the most amount of information from failure.

And so if you can get excited or turned on by learning, which is collecting, downloading information, you can actually get more excited from the lesson of a really bad race or a really bad failure. Way more than winning. Winning kind of almost as I dare I say it's not boring, but it's not as, as exciting if you're really into the learning of it.

And once I flip that, that's like, watch out. Because I, I just want. I'm here to learn. I'm not here, you know, there's nothing you can take away from me.

Nice. Nice. So what's so what. I'm curious what it looks like day to day.

Let's say you're, you're 14, you're 15, you're 16, you know, you're doing your, your lessons, you're doing you. And then are you at home meditating on top of that or are you just like doing it in the car on the way there?

Like, you know, what does that look like? And did your parents think you're crazy for any of this?

Well, my dad was. Well, they didn't know our times, so that, that was an important part. That they were not people.

That people might actually just say that they could be critical of it, that they were non supportive, non existent.

But I was so high strung, you know, and self motivated that even if my dad did know my times, I'd say like, oh, you know, too much pressure, you know, ease up. So, so I like the fact that they just said, okay, this is your hobby, this is your project. I had to get myself to work out.

So, you know, I was riding a bike 10 miles just to go to the workout. So you'd make the most of the workout if it took that much effort just to get there. So they weren't they in, in as far as judgment.

They were big time dreamers, believers. So my dad was into it like you, but he was kind of like this sort of magical, you know, quality of it. Yeah. You know, the Olympics. Oh, that's cool.

You know, what are you doing now? You know, he was like, he was, you know, we were enjoying this sort of possibility and so he, he was just supportive.

But you know, he was treating it kind of like a hobby and you know, you would, you feed books to me on different things. But yeah, he was just. I think the gift that I got from my parents was that they gave us both space. And I think space is, is where growth happens.

And that, that I think can be the, the greatest gift. Space to explore and unconditional support. So. Yeah.

So are you like sitting around and meditating at home or how is this, what's your actual routine? And I'm sure it developed over the years as well.

Like maybe you started off doing just your pictures side by side and then eventually you're, you're doing actual mental exercises. Eventually you're probably putting a little bit more time into it as you're seeing results from it. I'm curious what that looks like.

Absolutely. Okay, so definitely a goals. I had all kinds of goals and I put them up.

And I even wrote my goals in Glow in the dark paint and put it on the ceiling so that in case I woke up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom, I would see my goals all the time. That's how obsessed I was. And again, it was programming the subconscious mind. So it was, oh, isn't that cool?

The goals I get excited, but it was, it was more like, hey, I gotta keep putting the, you know, imprinting my, my computer with what we're looking for, what we're working on. Definitely did a lot of visualization. Visualization. To me, I am super practical.

So visualization is as a specialty word that you don't, there's only, you know, what visualization is. Visualization. So I, I would negotiate with myself because I'm very, you know, you develop self awareness.

So you're almost like having, you're having this conversation with yourself.

And so for me, visualization was going to a movie theater and watching a movie that you get immersed in and then it pulls you in and you become the character. And so I would go to this mental movie theater. I would see this over and over and over.

So the question that I get asked a lot is what does it feel like to win a national championship?

And for me, I've been to this movie so many times that when I actually did it, it was just like I got to invite all my family and friends and the whole audience into the movie theater and we all got to experience it together and just made it real. So, you know, the idea on the practical end was if I go to this future event, every time I go there it's going to become more familiar.

And every time I go there, I'm going to increase the chance that I will be more calm, less nervous when I actually have to go do it. So it was a matter of repeat exposure to it. So that realization was definitely one of them. Another thing that I did, I mean, I was psych. Psychotic.

Like the best version of psychotic or delusional is probably a better book. I, I call it constructive delusion.

Yeah, nice.

Literally trying to, to. I was trying to trick myself into believing things that hadn't happened yet. And so one thing with swimming, it's all, you know, racing time.

And so at the end of the season, you rest. Yes. You shave your body, you know, that's part of the whole thing. And you drop a ton of time.

Now the thing is, is that you don't go your best time until that very last race.

And you go to that very last race and maybe something happens in that race and you don't end up with a great time, but you know that you're faster than the time. Well, I'm in this really compressed experience where I don't have time to have an even, an average season.

Every single one of my seasons has to be phenomenal, even if I make it up. So what I would do is I would go back over that race and I would remove all the imperfections.

So I'd make the start perfect and I'd make the turns perfect. And then I'd kind of figure out like what was my speed in. The times were always faster in my imagination.

And I would take and make that the time and then I would remove proof of all the real times and I would be, you know, self improvement in the mental side is if you tell a lie to yourself over and over and over, eventually you'll believe it. So I was telling this a lot.

And so eventually, and it's not even about convincing yourself with the time it was making that, that, that time so real that you now became almost bored with that time so that you could now springboard into a new set of goals.

Because for me it was like, okay, if I didn't have a good start or turn or whatever, why would I want to train a whole season to go back to the same place, the same race to go the time that you knew you could have done the, the previous season? So why not take all the imperfections out and then live it as if you're, you're already at that speed and then you're naturally going to want more.

So it was all about tricking myself into wanting more and wanting more and creating this future. And so I called it mental. Now I call it mental leapfrogging.

You're constantly tricking yourself into believing that you're faster than you are so that you can set goals. Because the whole idea is, you know, there's a resting state to a cell.

And so if you're used to a really loud environment, then, you know, I've heard, I've had roommates like this where they have to have the TV on in order to go to sleep because they had a lot of siblings growing up. But their, their resting state was noise, a lot of noise compared to me, because I didn't grow up with that.

So all of it was creating this exposure of in your mind being so fast that now that's normal and you want more. So it was all about tricking my mind all the time. It was just using my mind as. And I did all kinds of stuff.

Another thing that I used to do is I was striving for perfection. That's mastery, right? And so I wanted to have a perfect stroke. And then I thought, what if I could take a perfect stroke?

It's kind of like running, take the perfect stride, every single stride, you know, be a runner and you know, Perfection. Every single. So swimming, same thing. I wanted to have a perfect stroke. So in my mind I was like, how?

Because everything's based on your motivation, your necessity. How can I. And, and once I started pulling this apart and going back and studying like Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan did the same stuff.

He was doing all kinds of mental things, of taking things personal and having grudges, you know, lighting his fire inside. For me, it was the same thing, like what motivates me. And I was like, I like to stand for something.

So what if everybody around me, all of my teammates, the people that might be up on the, on the pool deck, everyone's watching me in awe and they're like just drop jaw drooling. I mean, totally delusional, crazy like world.

But I knew that if people were watching me like that, then I would have a certain level of responsibility to have a perfect stroke.

So again, it's getting in touch with what motivates you because, you know, I'll share some, some stuff with, you know, about my brother and what he achieved, but he's the opposite, that he doesn't care what other people think, but I do. And so I was just always trying to find buttons to push to create more and more of this obsession, of this necessity.

Wow. Okay, so now you're. So now at some point your brother gets into to swimming. Yeah, let's talk about that. Like, how does that, how does that work?

Okay, so I was there, you know, very deliberate and you know, just like a coach actually wanting to know more than the coaches.

And so my younger brother, he's two years younger, opposite, he saw that I had a lot of friends and so he started following me to the pool because he wanted to have like a, a friend group like I did. And so for him it was really social. He, he learned how to swim when he was 17. So he's even older than me.

Geez.

Yeah. It doesn't even seem real. So he's 17, junior in high school I think is where he started and learns how to swim. And I have to leave for college.

And I was talking to my coaches about this younger brother that I have. And what I used to do is I would take what I was learning and you want to help out your siblings. So I would take him through everything.

So he's the first person I work with. And so I was like, okay, visualization, your voice is so important, so it keeps your attention. You're your world's greatest expert.

These are kind of catchphrases I use a lot now with the tools that I have. But back then, it was, we're going to make a visualization tape, because we had tapes back then.

And I'm going to make the script, and then I want you to read it, you know, read the script, because your voice is going to, you know, capture your attention, and you're going to guide yourself through visualization. And I want you to listen to these tapes every single day, you know, in the other tools.

And so I used to do things with him when I'd see him in person. So I remember we. It was like a big international meet, and I snuck him down onto the pool deck with my credentials, and.

And back then, we didn't have Michael Phelps, but we had our version, which was Matt Biondi. And so Matt's huge. He's. He looks like an NBA player. And so I'd say to Martin, my brother, go stand next to him.

Like, stand right next to him and go, are you kidding me? You're crazy. No, I'm not going to do that.

I said, no, I want you to do it, and I want you to see that he's just a human being, because you got to knock that pedestal out from underneath him in your mind if you're going to beat him, you know, so it was all about creating this connection in your mind that the future was normal. And so I. I know that I exponentially sped up his progress because I later found out that his main motivation was just beating me. That's funny.

He's supposed to be better than his brother.

Yeah, that's it. You know, Younger brother just wants to beat their older brother.

Yeah.

So he starts swimming. I'm in college. I'm, you know, doing everything remote with him, like what I do with people now.

And the coaches take an interest, and they're like, oh, you got a younger brother? And, yeah, yeah, he just learned how to swim, and he's doing this.

And they said, well, you know, what if he goes to a junior college for a year, because he needs to get one more year of experience. We'll take another look at him. So my brother took the challenge, and he went to a junior, junior school, junior college. And they liked him.

What they saw, the progress they saw. And so he came to the university, and eventually his senior year, he too, became a national champion.

And we also won medals at the world championship. So we're the first brothers to win a national championship in the same event.

And we're also the first brothers to win medals in the same event at world championships. And we started crazy late and both of us know that a major part of this was, you know, the power of the mind.

It was all about creating access to the future.

And then with my brother, he was not really, I mean, he, he won nationals, but that was really like the, like the coaches said, you know what the coaches said to him right before the start? They said, your brother did this, you can do this.

And so it was going back to being a kid, just like Dylan, like what we were talking about, where, oh, if Seth can do this, Martin can do this. And that's what he did. He didn't even realize who was in that race. It was the fastest seat ever.

Past Olympians, past national champions, and my brother in the outside lane and he destroyed everyone. And it was this simple idea, this playful idea of that 10 year old wanted to race his brother across the pool, right?

Wow.

And he just went out and did something he didn't even know was impossible.

So that's crazy.

And his dream wasn't to be a great swimmer, like I said, his was to have his own show. He wanted his own show on the Discovery Channel. So I was like, well, this worked with swimming. I think this could work in other things.

Why don't we apply it? And so a vision board obviously is, you're putting pictures up and visually seeing it and imagining it. I was like, well, what if I.

We had some video equipment and what if I learned how to make the graphics and edit the videos and we put together little versions of shows that would come off the Discovery Channel and we would get the logo and everything. We would do that in between practices. We would go and film things and then we'd post them.

And within two or three years, the Discovery Channel, the one that we were focused on, not National Geographic or the other ones, the Discovery Channel contacted us and said, you know, we'd like to give you your own show.

No way.

Brother got his own show on the Discovery Channel.

What the heck? What was, what was the show?

I think it's called the History of the Earth. Like a series where they travel all over the world and, you know, he, he's the Dr. Pepper of the family.

So he had his doctor, has his doctorate in geology. So.

Wow. Wow. That's crazy.

So it's using all that stuff from those books. Apparently it works.

Yeah, yeah. That's a crazy. Okay, okay. So now I'm curious. Like, you know, a lot of athletes are dealing with identity issues as they transition out of sports.

So now you're at the top of your game, you know, national championship one of the fastest swimmers ever, you know, gold medals at these different games. You know, first and foremost, like, I know that apparently you didn't make it to the Olympics, so I'm curious about that.

And obviously, you know, to be, to be sensitive about that, but also, like then transitioning into. Now I'm not doing sports anymore and I'm, I'm becoming a coach and I see the value in coaching others and helping others get to that level.

Will you share your, your piece on that?

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Okay, so I basically did everything you could in swimming, and that includes the international meets, but the Olympics.

Okay, so let me back up because we were talking manifesting and all this thing, so. Remember Pablo, the person I put on my wall?

Well, when I won the national championship, Pablo's the one that handed me the national championship trophy, so.

Oh, wow.

If that fits within your belief of the law of attraction, that's pretty specific.

Yeah.

He's the guy that was on my wall. He's the one that's handing me one of the most significant awards I, I would achieve. Right?

No way.

I'm in tears. I'm like, Pablo, you have no idea what this means on my wall.

So I should have taken him off my wall because he did something that had never been done before.

I still remember when I heard the news that he was coming out of retirement and I got this bad feeling in my stomach and I had a race against my idol for the. The Olympic spot. True story. He took the spot on the Olympic team that I would have taken.

I would have been an Olympian if Pablo would have stayed in retirement.

Wow.

Retirement beat me by 2 inches. He went to the Olympics. I had to stay home and watch it on tv. So yeah, yeah, that's, that was, that was a big one. And I came back four years later.

I really didn't have anyone in my life to have these really important conversations that I now have with others. So I had a lot of scar tissue from that one race.

And then there was a big race at nationals in between where they kind of labeled me as the next great Olympian and talking about me making a big deal. And I did the silliest, stupidest, self sabotage thing where I was like, oh, well, my body likes to be warm and loose.

And so I put all the covers on me in between prelims and finals, took a nap and for two or three hours just completely sweat out my race. Just so stupid. And I went and fell on my face basically that, that night. And I never really got over it.

And then by the time the Olympic trials came around, I really was kind of like just, I wasn't even there in that race. I was gone. But there was other race that came right after it that was just.

It's basically, you know, the hundred yard dash for running the shortest race ours is a 50 meter sprint. To say that you're the fastest person in the world.

And I had always been really good at it, but this time I was like, I'm just gonna go have fun again. It's like, Dylan, I fi. I, the race that I was really serious about, that I wasn't even close. Like I wasn't even really there.

I mean, I'd qualified for finals and. But it, but no, but this race was fun. This is all about going back to being 10 years old again.

And I just got in and took off and went as fast as I could. And I was one of the fastest in the world at it, but I missed the olympic team by 4/100 of a second.

So the first time with Pablo four years ago earlier was about 2 inches. This one you couldn't even see with the naked eye.

There's a guy that's walking the planet Olympian, and then there's me who has these stories that I'm sharing with you. And you wouldn't have been able to tell the difference between us if you were to see the, the photo of the fish. Gosh, that's life. That's.

That's, that's so, so that was reality. That's what I was dealt in.

I, I did okay with it, but then when I was done with my sport, because to go all in, you put all into this identity of Seth the swimmer. And then once that, it's kind of like a movie ends in who is Seth? I'd already. I was always playing this person. I had this identity so deep.

And everything I did, you know, you walk into a room and everyone, you know, if they knew you, they'd be like, oh, this is Seth the swimmer. You should meet him. You know, swimmer. Oh, I've heard about set the swimmer right. And no longer did I have that sport or that identity.

And I started having debilitating panic attacks. And I've always believed even much back then, but especially now that nothing is broken.

You just have to take the time to understand what the lesson is. Kind of like learning how to swim, you know, just a learning approach. And so I was like, there's a purpose to this. Why is my mind doing this?

It doesn't make any sense now, but maybe there's Something to it. So I went through this program. It was repeat exposure at UCLA because I lived in Los Angeles at the time.

And it was a support group, small little support group. Everyone had different triggers. One might have been a spider, another was an elevator.

Another was, for me, it was being in a car, which in LA is not a good thing. And so what you do is you learn in a group setting that fear is something that's a perception. It doesn't exist on its own.

Kind of like how Kobe talks about failure. And so the whole idea was to go back into this fear and develop a different sort of self awareness and do it with baby steps.

Remember there was an old movie, what about Bob taking baby steps? So is this. This whole idea, like, okay, if it's the elevator guy, just go and park in the parking lot.

That might be the first level that will trigger you. And come back to the group next week and we'll talk about it. And it would all be encouraging. Like, well, you didn't die.

But yeah, man, I felt like, but, yeah, I didn't die. And little by little, he would eventually go in the building, and then eventually he would go push the button. And eventually we get in the elevator.

And eventually he could ride the elevator because he had proved to himself that, you know, that he was beyond the perception of that fear. So it's repeat exposure. And once I learned that my mind was messing with me, I might use colorful language, my mind with me.

Then I said, okay, if my mind's effing with me, that I can f with it back.

And so it became this whole idea of dismantling the button by dismantling my identity and then just starting over from zero and trying to understand who Seth was. And once I really got to the core of that and I'd given everything away, you know, we could do a whole podcast on that. But I given everything away.

I was studying, like, what's life all about? And it took years for me at least. And then it finally I'd come to a point where I an understanding about it.

And a friend of mine who had been with me the whole time asked me, what would you learn? And I just said, everything's made up. You know, business is made up, education's made up. Everything's literally made up.

And if it's all made up, then you can make it whatever you want. And that's what I'd done with swimming, but I don't think I was really aware of that outside of the sports.

And then I started to see, like, the Matrix like all of a sudden I was like, oh, we are all just agreeing that this piece of paper called a dollar bill has a value. Every single thing was like dismantling their perception, but not in a destructive way, in a constructive way.

And so for me, that's life after Seth the swimmer.

And so what I tried, what I learned from panic attacks actually, was that the only, the reason why you have a panic attack, and this is with the yips, this is with a lot of different things that are similar, that are fear based, is that what will happen is you're trying to control something that you don't have control over.

So the blessing if you lean into the panic attack and learn about it on its terms is that it's teaching you that the only control that you have is letting go of control.

And if you're an extremely controlling person that was able to achieve high levels of success in this sort of laboratory environment of sports, right? That is the hardest thing to do, is let go of control. Life has a way of just stopping you and saying, no, this is more important than anything.

You have to learn how to let go of control. That's the only control you get. And it's such a beautiful, simple lesson. But it was scary as heck because you feel like your life's coming to an end.

You know, the panic mode. So for me, I buried my sort of past, all that swimming stuff, all the athlete stuff.

I raised a family and our kids were in a small school, same city where the university is.

And some of the other parents, they were down at the university and they saw this name, Seth Pepper on the wall and they came back and they were like, any relation to you? Because I never talked about it. There was no reason to for me.

And I started telling him these stories starting late, no specialization, go after your dreams, right? Dealing with panic attacks, all those sort of things. And they're like, this is really important.

I think you should really get out and you should help people. So that's, that's kind of the beginning was having the encouragement of others saying this. These stories are very important, especially now.

So, you know, a lot of credit to the, the community of just encouraging, get out there and, and at least tell your story.

Wow, okay. And so now do you also help athletes with that stage? Are you mostly just in the performance world itself?

Like, are you helping athletes who are, you know, in that place of, okay, now I'm out of sports, I don't, I don't know who the heck I am anymore. Please help me.

Yes, both, both so definitely a lot that are. That are in the sport. And then the transition will happen, you know, at a certain stage. I.

What I learned from this dismantling is to put it really simple. We are human beings, we're not human doings, right? So human being learns through failure. So one of your biggest, if you're.

I think it's your biggest development stage is learning how to walk. And so the average Toddler Falls and 69 times a day, but they don't have this identity of failure.

They just keep getting up and getting up and more experience, and more experience and just get better. Right? And so that's the definition of growth for a human being, is to live in failure. And it's not a failure because you don't have.

You don't take any of those results personally. Human doing is when you think that you are the results, that you are the swimmer, that you are the time, you are the grade, you are the salary.

And so you need to separate those two because you'll start to spiral when things don't look very good in performance. And so if I would have known what I know now, I would have done that earlier.

I wouldn't have waited until the sport was over because I could have, as I like to say, I could have played like my life depended on it, knowing that my life didn't depend on it. See, I didn't know that my life didn't depend on it because I'd gone all in and I didn't have balance.

So like with Dylan, it's, hey, are your friends your friends, your mom, your dad, your relative, like your family, your family, and are you just Dylan to them? Because it's really important that you are just a human being with your inner circle.

And that makes him even more of an intense hockey player when he chooses to play hockey, right? So the, the doing is a choice. It's not your identity. And you can play at an even higher intensity and a higher, higher level and more consistency.

So, yes, I'm. But.

But to answer your question, I am already dismantling it before the dismantling happens, because there's a strength in knowing that you are not this doing. And so it's a natural progression where you're creating.

Like Kobe, when he made it to the NBA, he did it when he was 19, out of high school, and he saw someone get cut in the neighboring locker, someone, you know, the career came to an end and he realized, that could be me at any day, I could get a really serious injury. And so he started to Explore who am I outside of basketball? And he tried a lot of different things, but eventually landed on storytelling.

And so Kobe would go and meet with Oprah. He would go. She would. He would go and meet with Eisner. You know, the. The. He was.

He was in charge of Disney, and he would ask them, how do you run studios? So he's doing the same thing he was doing with basketball, but he was doing it, you know, the doing of the next thing after.

And within three years of his retirement, he won the Oscar doing the same process that he had done as a basketball player.

I didn't know that.

That's what I'm trying to do with people is you are more than this sport. And guess what? Winning is not fulfilling.

Because everyone that I've helped win, I always ask them a simple question, which is kind of a trick question. What does it feel like? They go, oh, my gosh, it's amazing. And right away they'll say, let's go do it again.

Yeah.

You know, we just saw it. The NBA, the Knicks, they hand the trophy to the owner. 53 Years it's taken for him to get his hands on that trophy.

And you know, the very first thing he says, we're gonna go do it again. And I was like, shut up and enjoy. Right now? Yeah, right now. Good enough. It took you 53 years to get here.

Now just be here now, and you're already not happy, right? You're already empty, and you need to go repeat and three peat.

And, you know, so my point is, is that all these sports, all these things are all made up. There's nothing wrong with that. But understand that it's not fulfilling.

The thing that's fulfilling is everything you'll go through to get the trophy. The journey is the thing that's fulfilling. The trophy is just kind of a cool, you know, kind of mile marker, if you will, on the journey.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So now you transitioned into becoming a coach. What. What is. What does that transition like?

You go from people telling you that you should, you know, you should really tell these stories. You should really help people out. And now you're like, okay, now I'm gonna get clients. Now it's make it into a business llc.

Like, if you could just, you know, quickly summarize, like, what. How does that. How do you go about that, and what's that like for you?

Well, it took a while for me to even. And I. I actually believe in mentors, so I have some really good mentors and that I needed a lot of coaxing.

Along the way to like, go, is this really a thing? And can I really make a difference? And, you know, so there's an interesting thing. I mean, it's no more comfortable than it was as an athlete.

It's actually more stressful at times because I'm not actually one out there doing the performance. So you. You have to meet people where they're at, and everyone is extremely different from each other. Just like my brother and I are polar opposites.

Same thing with, you know, all these great performers. They're all very different versions, but the one trait that they all have is they're stubborn.

The stubbornness has allowed them to achieve a lot because they just keep sticking with it. Your stubbornness can get in your way as much as help you. So I have to be, you know, very.

I think I have to be empathetic, you know, sit in the unknown, go through the discomfort with them. We problem solve together. But I also at times have to be very stubborn as well, to push back and say, no, this is.

This is.

This is whatever it is, you know, and it's. Sue. It's usually a lot more simple than they're making it. And what I feel like my role is that's so significant, it is we.

We have so much information on the Internet now. We're surrounded by it with our algorithms on social media.

So if you're even interested in this stuff, the mental training and all that, you're surrounded by it. So I always say, you probably already know all this stuff.

And if I know the parents or the coaches, I'm like, they probably told you all these answers anyways.

But what I bring into the conversation in the relationship, which is, you know, like, really keeps the glue, it's literally the glue is that we have accountability. We have repeat accountability conversations. And that's what's key, because it's not about knowing something.

That's a massive planet that we have now that we were on all the time, whenever we're on a device especially. But this tiny little island planet is the planet of doing. That's where we got to get to. We got to go do it. It's not about knowing it.

It's about doing. And then if it's high pressure, high stakes, it's an environment that's very uncomfortable. So you have to do it when you're really uncomfortable.

And that takes practice, and it takes accountability. And so you kind of have to work with who they are, what motivates them, put the tools in front of them.

So you pick, and then we Will customize this tool for you. So as far as it's kind of, it's progressed, but just like any sort of success, it's normal.

Like I could just tell you story after story of all these like high profile people from billionaires to Netflix film director that released the number one film on the planet. We worked pre to post for that whole project to even get green lit in the first place, to great individual performances, team performances.

But it's very normal. It's just normal. In. In a normal space, you still have the elements of being a human being. And I have imposter. I take the.

I drop the word syndrome, but I feel like an imposter a lot. But I've learned to embrace that and go, you know what? That's just grounding.

That's just a basic level of maybe humility that I might not know or maybe this is the last time someone wins. Right. The crazy scenarios that our head plays, I embrace those things.

So I try to get into the flow state with each person or each group that I'm with, which is awesome.

But it's also really uncomfortable to get there because you get there from having a lot hanging in the balance and not knowing and dropping into the wave and then finding it out when you're doing it together. So it's. It's just a very uncomfortable, but not a bad uncomfortable.

It's just a very uncomfortable space that becomes very comfortable while you're doing it.

Yeah. And.

And did you know right away that you were gonna kind of do the mental performance side of things and work with like all the sports and businesses and everything? Or what Were you trying to go mostly into swimming at the beginning? Like, what, what was that arc look like?

Well, at first I was, you know, trying to figure out who it was going to be. And then I had a sales coach. So I, you know, I believe in mentors and coaches. So I had a sales coach. And he said, well, the lowest hanging fruit is.

Is athletes. High profile athletes. Why don't you do that? Because you already speak their language. I was like, duh. You know, I didn't see that. So I did it.

And then I'd get on podcasts like this and I'd tell my story and then someone would. It was like the Formula one podcast that I was on, I had. That's where the film director and he was like, man, I like the way you think.

I like the sound of your voice. I want to have that in my life on a regular basis. Would you, you know, meet with me and Kind of coach me like you would coach a formula one driver.

I'm like, yeah, because it works. It works in all the different spaces. Because when you have opportunity, you have pressure.

And so anytime you're going to ask someone out on a date, you're going to make a speech, you're going to go out and perform, you're going to have pressure. So you have to be able to handle that pressure. And so that's the space of performance.

And, you know, it's been able to translate even to like, I work with high level coders, so these people are like people that code Facebook level, you know, And I'm like, they're not going to want to talk about sports, but they absolutely love the sports. They may not have ever played the sport, but they love how sports represent a clear answer, a clear performance.

Because there's a beginning, there's a middle, and there's an end, and there's data along the way. So you have the measurements to be able to say there was something right here that we were putting out there and pressure testing.

And these are the tools that we used and these are the results.

And so whether it was a computer person or it was a fashion designer or it was a top level athlete or team, I realized, like, this is the human condition. We are all doing this.

Like my kids, you know, we were talking about kids earlier, just talking to my kids when they're really little to understand, you know, you know, what does a goal look like to you? What's pressure to you? And you realize everyone of every age is going through these things. Yeah.

So that's been a really interesting part of being able to unravel it. And it's the calling. It's really about sharing this because, you know, I, if I can help someone else, I mean, that's, that's just.

I mean, it's a true blessing to be able to.

It's just a weird sort of thing, reality to wake up and go, you know, all those weird things of you growing up as a little kid and noticing patterns that no one else is paying attention to, and why do you always think about that stuff and why are you always pulling stuff apart and why are you such a crazy dreamer? Like, I've always been kind of like this unicorn, you know, and. And then you have a place all of a sudden where people.

Wait, what'd you just say again? What was that again? What was that tool? How do I do that? You know, and it's just, you know, been very strange and in the best sense of It.

I love that. Okay, so you see, you worked with a ton of different people now, and you've learned, you know, how the. Everything combines all the.

All the commonalities between them. And then now how do you kind of describe your, I guess, your keynote topics when you go out and speak?

I basically treat the audience like they're one person. So I'll just go through the performance. I'll start with the level of honesty, which is. I'm really uncomfortable right now.

I learned that, you know, I remember standing in front of like, all these mortgage brokers, like hundreds and hundreds, and I didn't know anyone there. And I was like, am I going to be able to relate to these people? You know, are they going to think anything I have to offer is worthwhile?

And I was just like, okay, I'm going to treat them like one person and I'm going to show them before and after. And, you know, see, like, these are the tools we use. This is a person. They had this dream and this is what they achieved story after story.

These are the tools. And they just turned into like little children in front of me. You could just see them just soften and start to imagine what.

What would their life be like if they actually went after what they wanted. So that's what I try to do is when I'm speaking to groups is, you know, be honest with being uncomfortable, just to get into the flow state.

Like, I'm surfing this wave right now and I don't know exactly what I'm going to say, and I hope it lands well for you. And in that authenticity, there's a connection in that. That sincerity. And then I just give very simple, practical tools and I give them proof.

And I think that's very. That cuts through all the crap of all the noise that we listen to today with all the different people and things.

Yep, yep. A hundred percent. And then is there. Is there one thing that, like, okay, you say mental performance isn't talked about enough in sports in general.

You know, it's. It's just. It's kind of left to the wayside. Is there.

If you could give them one thing to kind of finish us off here that is, you know, on your mind that is really important that you don't see talked about enough that we maybe didn't touch on during this episode. And is there anything that you could think of?

I. I would just say allow yourself to dream. I know that sounds corny, but, you know, really write something down that you want to achieve.

Take the approach of the Learner you know, really become curious of others that have gone it, you know, and done it themselves. If you really dig in to the creation behind it and you kind of look at all the grades, they all have the same pattern.

Using the same tools in, anything is possible. I would say you just got to get out there and start doing it, because you don't know anything until you start doing it.

So that would be my words of wisdom to wrap with.

Yeah, no, I think you've definitely proved that with your stories. The Discovery Channel show and your brother national championship. Your brother did in a couple years. You did it in five or six years.

Like, unreal, man. Like, I love everything you've shared. It's been incredibly valuable.

You even shared all your, you know, t tips and tactics along the way that you did, you know, to get you to that. That point. Like, it's been incredibly valuable. I hope that you guys all, as the audience got a lot of value out of this.

I thank you so much, Seth, for being here. And where can the audience find you if they want to look up your stuff?

Sethpepper.com and it's just my name, so it's all the handles. Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook of Seth Pepper and just reach out. You know, I love to hear from people and I like to know what they're going through.

And we're all in this together.

I love that. Do you have any, like, speeches or anything that they should pay attention to? Webinar coming out, a program they should do? Anything you want to plug?

Well, you could go to my website. I try to put all the podcasts there.

So, you know, if people like what this message has been, they can go and, you know, I try to be an open book with people. I eventually will write a book. I don't know when that's done.

Yeah, nice.

So, yeah, I have a podcast that I put out called Unlimit. Your potential just called the Unlimit podcast. So it's on all the platforms. So conversation. Conversations with top performers as well.

So I encourage people just look for that as well.

Awesome. Okay, well, perfect. Well, thank you again, Seth, for being here. Thank you guys for watching. Until next time.

Thanks.