Self-Awareness, Mindset, and Audience Focus: Michael Delisswe

John chats with executive communication coach Michael Delissa about self-awareness, feedback, and mindset in presentations, arguing that most presentation problems are internal rather than technical. Dea shares a humiliating early experience when a professor publicly flagged his filler words, and explains how he now builds self-awareness by recording speakers and letting them see distractions for themselves. They discuss avoiding perfectionism, reducing distracting habits without sounding robotic, and focusing on outcomes and audience needs rather than what the presenter wants to say. Dea highlights common issues such as covering too much, weak flow, lack of customisation, and insufficient emotional connection to the audience’s pain points. He frames effective persuasion around trust, logic, and emotional connection, ties improvement to leveraging strengths and minimising “fatal flaws,” and promotes continual feedback, daily practice, and his book Leadership Accelerators on emotional intelligence, communication habits, and personality.

CHAPTERS

00:00 Nightmare of Humiliation

00:27 Meet Michael Dea

01:40 Filler Words Disaster

03:33 Recording Builds Awareness

05:13 Ditch Perfectionism

07:12 Authentic Not Scripted

09:18 Strengths and Fatal Flaws

12:41 Start With Outcomes

14:26 Common Presentation Pitfalls

16:47 Engagement and Customisation

18:54 Coaching Goals and Mindset

24:26 Trust Logic Emotion Framework

27:57 Pain Before Solutions

31:29 Slide Purpose Coaching

32:53 Personality-Based Speaking

37:22 Outcomes Over Learning Styles

39:48 Mindset And Audience Focus

42:20 Communication In The AI Era

46:27 Book Leadership Accelerators

48:45 Feedback And Self Awareness

52:27 Episode Wrap And Challenge

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Have you ever had one of those dreams where you are standing in

2

front of a room full of people and

then suddenly realize that you're

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completely naked, you're exposed,

you're embarrassed, you're humiliated.

4

You dunno where to put your hands.

5

You want to run and die of

shame, and when you wake up, you

6

realize it was all just a dream.

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But that feeling might even stay with you.

8

Maybe you've even had a situation in

your life where you've been humiliated

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and know how that feels for real.

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When my guest today started his journey

to speaking and speaker training by

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being humiliated, whilst giving a

presentation with a professor who

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was trying to get a message across in

probably not the most effective way.

13

That student is now a coach and

coaching executives on communication,

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leadership and influence.

15

Thankfully, that horrific

experience did not put him off.

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But this week I'm chatting with

Michael dea and we are talking

17

about self-awareness, feedback,

mindset, and why Most presentation

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problems aren't technical,

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they're more internal.

20

So welcome to Present Influence

the show for speakers looking

21

to be known, booked, and paid.

22

If you want to become more persuasive

without becoming performative,

23

this week's episode is for you.

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Let's get to it.

25

and I have been looking forward

to speaking with you because want

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to get into, um, these topic of

self-awareness and leadership and

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things that you are expert in.

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But I do know that we don't

all start off from good places.

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I'm always interested to hear

where people begin their journey

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into presentation skills.

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And I know your story one,

but it's an interesting one.

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Um.

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Michael Delisser: Yeah, so I was in

a, a class in, my father had taught

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communication skills before me, so I

wanted to take a presentation skills

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class in that first class, I had an

experience that was not a positive one.

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It was kind of a disaster.

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I was doing my first presentation, it was

in front of about 25 other students, and

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about two minutes into the presentation,

my professor interrupts me and he says,

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Michael, I need to interrupt you because

you're using so much filler speech.

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I can't really focus on the content

of your message, so what I'm gonna do

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is raise my hand every time that you.

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Say, um, or ah, right.

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And I didn't even know I was using

filler speech at the time, but now

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as I'm continuing to speak, I keep

seeing his hand going up in the back.

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Right.

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And his hand keeps going up.

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and now that I'm seeing it, I'm hearing

myself say, um, and ah, and it makes

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me say more ums and ahs and I start to

just fall apart in front of the group.

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Right.

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I'm, I'm realizing how bad it sounds.

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And in the back, you

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know, the professor at this point, he

is using both hands because he can't

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keep up with all the ums and the ahs.

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So, I'm just falling apart up there.

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And then he stops again about a minute

later and he says, okay, Michael,

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now you're so focused on the ums

and ahs that it's getting worse.

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So what I'm gonna do is not interrupt

you anymore and just let you finish

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your presentation, but I wanted

you to be aware of that issue.

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So I get through the presentation

and I'm now, I'm just humiliated,

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you know, and I've gotta go back

and do three more presentations

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in front of the same audience.

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And so I was pretty devastated at

the time and I did not wanna get

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back in that class or ever give her

another presentation for that matter.

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And so I, I just ended up going

through that and here I am, you

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know, 30 years, 30 plus years later,

and I am teaching executives how

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to be effective speakers, right?

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And I do this for a living.

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And so for me it was a huge turnaround.

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And you know, in the back of my mind,

I'm thinking if I can make this kind

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of turnaround from falling apart

to doing this, pretty much anybody

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can overcome their presentation,

fears and or bad experiences.

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John: I I'm willing to guess

that you don't use that

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teaching method of raising your

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Michael Delisser: I do not.

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What I do is I end up recording people

and letting them see for themselves.

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But, but, and, and there's something

about when someone gets recorded, it,

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it just, something in the brain clicks.

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It's much better than me saying, Hey, you

said, um, 25 times, or whatever it was.

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But when they see it and they

see the impact on their overall

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effectiveness and how distracting it is,

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it increases their motivation 'cause

now they've seen it for themselves for

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the first time and you've raised their

self-awareness and that's really the

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key to going from an okay presenter

to a great presenter is, is developing

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a really strong self-awareness about

all of your different skills and all

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of your different potential flaws and

how to do workarounds for the flaws

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and how to leverage your strength.

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John: No, and I I like that

because, um, I think it.

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It's good to have awareness of it, but

you know, organizations like Toastmasters

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for example, you'll get feedback on

how many ums and ahs Yet they have

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someone tasked with counting all of

your filler words in a talk and Sure.

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It's good to have awareness of that

up to a point and, and certainly

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they're not making you aware trying

to speak, thankfully, but, um.

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I do, I do question the value of it in

the longer term because I think ultimately

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you can end up spending too much time

focusing on not using the filler language

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and potentially starting to sound A bit

like when people, um, you know, stop

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using any sort of unconscious movement

and only of volitional movements and it

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starts to look a bit robotic, I think

it starts to become a bit unnatural.

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And

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Michael Delisser: agree completely

and, and the biggest challenges is

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when people go into a presentation

with a perfection mindset.

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In my career, I've given

thousands of presentations.

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Never once did one go perfect.

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You know?

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And there's something that

can happen in the audience.

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I'll give you an example.

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I was, I

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was, and I was presenting

to a board of executives.

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At a hospital in the

middle of the presentation,

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all their, their pagers went off

and they all just ran outta the

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room and left me standing there,

and they didn't tell me why.

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Then they all

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eventually came back in and it was

some kind of code that happened.

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And, and so I'm, you've gotta recollect

yourself after everyone runs outta

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the room and you don't know if it's

because of you or some, or, you know, an

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earthquake or you don't know what it is.

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So, the, the point is, is that.

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You will never give a perfect

presentation in your career,

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and the goal shouldn't be to

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be perfect.

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It it doesn't, to your point, it doesn't

sound conversational, it doesn't sound

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authentic.

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The goal would be to reduce

any negative habits or

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ineffective habits to

the point that they're

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less noticeable or barely noticeable,

so that people can focus on your

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content.

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And if you do that, that's good enough

and it still will sound authentic

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'cause you're speaking the way you would

normally speak, just with not as many ums.

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John: Yeah, I, I think I even prefer

to change the language myself from,

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rather than thinking, uh, that

we're aiming for it being perfect.

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I don't think speeches that, that go

like that, not anyone ever delivers.

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Perfect in that sense that

you're talking about it there.

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But if, if we call it, if we call that

flawless, like no flaws at all, no

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filler words, no mistakes, nothing.

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I think that's un unnatural and

unattainable for most of us, but I

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don't think it's perfect and, and

so I, I don't, I don't see that

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as being a perfect talk for me.

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A perfect talk is one that, that connects.

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It gets emotion that gets a

response, that gets the audience

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to, to, to do what they want.

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And those are things that make a talk

perfect, but they're not like focused

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on this sort of flawless perfectionism

that I think people end up ultimately

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gets getting stuck on and judging

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Michael Delisser: And that's why when,

whenever I'm, I'm recording someone or see

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that someone is either reading a script

or trying to get it perfect, I just cut

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'em off and say, that's not gonna work.

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Right?

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Because I mean, granted, if you're.

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If you're in a legal

situation, you have to say

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things just the right way.

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Or if you're a politician and you're doing

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your scripted speech, you know, whatever.

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But most of those politicians

don't sound authentic anyway.

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They sound like they're

reading from a teleprompter,

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which they are.

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And so, when people get in their mind,

it needs to come outta my mouth a certain

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way, that's when they end up building

up their own anxieties and fears when

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they shouldn't even be doing that.

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Because you're the only

one in your mind that

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had a belief that it should

come out a certain way.

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You're creating more

pressure on yourself to have

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it be that way instead of authentically

just allowing it to come out.

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That's also why I tell people don't

try to be a motivational speaker.

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Don't try to be, be who

you are and what your

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personality is.

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Then you'll come across as authentic.

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You'll learn to leverage your

strengths, and you'll learn to

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minimize your weaknesses

or work around them.

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John: it is interesting that you say

that because, um, I, I do have to

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edit, uh, 'cause I edit my own show.

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I, I edit a lot of interviews and I, and

I hear everybody's filler language and I

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probably hear it more than most people.

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And I used to, when I, when

I first started podcasting,

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I used to edit it all out.

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All of the ums, all the ass, and

definitely saw it as being an imperfection

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and, and eventually came to realize it

was making the conversation unnatural.

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And so, um, now I very much aim

for having maybe reduce, if it's

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excessive, I'll reduce it, but if it's

not, it's just natural conversation.

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So I just leave.

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it Because that is how we

actually talk to each other.

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And so, but it is sometimes interesting

to, to see just how much we use that and

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how normal it is for people to repeat

stuff or stumble, stumble over words and

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have to restart sentences or get halfway

through a, a thought and change track.

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And, and it's very interesting to

see these things, but you only,

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I think you only can really see

them if you record this stuff

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Michael Delisser: Yeah, it's so

interesting, just when I'm giving feedback

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to people and I'm helping them, you know,

the two things, and I, and I teach lots

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of just different areas of leadership

development and communication

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skills, but the two things that when

anyone's putting together their own

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development plan or their own.

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Priorities to focus on.

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There's two areas I tell people

they should, spend a hundred

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percent of their attention

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on.

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Right?

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One is

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developing your strengths.

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The other one is minimizing your

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worst weaknesses.

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Not all of them, just the ones that really

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stand out to others.

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And so,

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you know, there's, there's some

research talks about referring

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to 'em as fatal flaws, but

things that cause you to not

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be able to get your message

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across to, others or are so distracting

that it causes a problem if you focus your

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energy on, on leveraging your strengths.

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You're gonna be using

all the things that make

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you who you are to make your

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presentation stronger.

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That doesn't mean being

a motivational speaker.

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It means if you're a very

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logical, structured person who's

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introverted, using your strength

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of logic and structure, and putting

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together a sound argument to make

your presentation persuasive.

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Don't try to be the extroverted, outgoing.

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You know, super friendly presentation

'cause it won't sound like you, so

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you're not leveraging your strengths.

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In fact, what you're doing is probably

trying to use a weakness that's not

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going to help your overall effectiveness.

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John: It, it is fascinating me.

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Uh, and probably we're gonna be sort

of, uh, know in speaking to each other.

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We might, we might, well be preaching

to the choir, so I'll be interested

224

to see if there's any things that

we don't, concur on completely.

225

But, um, I.

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One of the things that I have a present

whole presentation about, this is part of

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I'm working on the moment as well, talking

about, uh, what I call charisma killers.

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The things that kind of kill your

ability to communicate and be effective

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on, on stage is interestingly Um, but

you know, the, uh, a big part of it's

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just by, for, for many people just

addressing these things that actually

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damage your, the way you connect

with an audience might be enough.

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To, to get you to where you want to be as

a speaker without having to really develop

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much further from that, um, that you

might actually be just, just about fine.

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It's sometimes it is more about what

you take away than, than what you add.

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And, and I, I think, I think you have a

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Michael Delisser: Oh yeah.

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I mean, you can, you can say

what, you can take what you

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just said and apply it to every

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aspect of presenting.

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taking away content is better

than adding more, right?

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I

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mean, people try to cover

the 10 most important points.

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No, you should be covering

the two to three that are

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most critical to your, your,

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audience.

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The other seven you can

put in a handout, right?

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Or something else.

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And so you wanna keep your focus on your

content, on the most important things,

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on what you focus on and trying to

improve as a presenter on the, the few.

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Things that'll have the 80% of

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the impact, right?

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Those 20% of the things that

if you work on will have the

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80% of the impact.

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So, and more often than not,

it's not trying to improve

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10 things, it's trying to

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improve the one thing that's

holding you back the most.

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And when you're done with

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that, you could take on

the second thing, right?

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But, but focus your energy on

fewer things and you'll get

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better results both in your presentations

and in your ability to improve,

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your ability to develop content and

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or deliver it.

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John: Yeah.

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the, the volume of information, uh, again,

I things, but the volume of information,

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um, the distracting habits, we, we can

minimize those and reduce things is gonna

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make it, is gonna make significant impact.

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But what, what else is, what

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Michael Delisser: The, the one thing

that I see consistently missing,

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and I work a lot with sales teams,

I work with executives that are

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presenting to a board or, you know,

in a lot of, a lot of these scenarios.

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People are presenting from a standpoint

of, here's what I wanna say, as opposed

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to saying, what am I trying to achieve?

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And what does the audience need

to hear in order to achieve that?

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Right?

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And so it gets into, what do

I wanna say to this group?

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And you start thinking I, me instead of.

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Why are they even here?

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Am I gonna waste their time or

am I gonna speak to an outcome?

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And so what people do is they

start putting together their

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presentations without a clear end

in mind or a clear outcome defined.

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If you stop and define your outcomes

first, then develop your content,

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your presentation will be way better

than starting to develop content

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that just happens to get to some outcomes.

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It, it focuses you on just the few

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things that are most important.

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John: Uh, and I, I feel like the,

this, this is a message that I think

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comes through time and time all

need to hear it time and time again.

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Um, because so many people don't

do it, how many times to hear

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it before you actually do it?

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I speak to myself here as well with this.

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So, um, we do get into this trap

of, 'cause we live in our own heads.

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We, we think, well,

that's, this is my voice.

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This is speak it, this

is what I wanna say.

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Uh, and we don't take that little journey

into what do they actually need to hear?

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And, what needs to be said here

that's gonna, um, have an impact

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with, with that audience, at

least as best you can imagine.

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So it is very hard to identify our own.

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Weaknesses.

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So working, working with someone

like yourself is, is gonna be

300

very important to that way.

301

find themselves with the, with greatest

weaknesses and, and how, how best can we

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Michael Delisser: Yeah, for me, I

mean, I see, I mean, I've coached

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hundreds of people one-on-one on

presentations, and I see some very

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common patterns in terms of the things

people do that hurt them the most.

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Right?

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One is trying to

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cover too much information.

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Another one is not

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having a clear

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purpose and then having all your

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content aligned to that purpose, right?

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And so they end up.

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Covering things that they

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don't need to cover or not.

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You know, every presentation, every good

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presentation should flow like a story.

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If you don't have a detail that's

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relevant to getting to the outcome

you're trying to achieve, it

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should not be in your presentation.

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So really spending more time assessing

what you're including and why applying

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the 80 20 role and saying, of the a

hundred percent that I could apply,

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what is the 20% that'll

have the 80% impact?

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And then starting with that and just

putting your presentation around

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that, that's one issue.

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Another one is not being aware of

the, flow of their presentation.

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So.

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Spending too much time

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on one slide,

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having a particularly complicated

diagram and throwing it up at one

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time and, and allowing other people

to have conversations about a part

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of it that you're not talking about,

you know, not using animation to

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make things pop up at the exact

moment that you wanna talk about it.

333

But there's, there's so many

different things that, that, that

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I see consistently where people get

stuck on one slide, and it feels

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like the presentation stopped because

you've been there for five minutes.

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Right?

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And so if you're using slides or if

you're, if you're presenting any content,

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what are you doing to make sure that

the flow is there, that it's logically

339

leading from one point to the next.

340

And you're focusing on what's

most important to your audience.

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And, and, and you have to know

your audience to get there.

342

So that's the other mistake people

make, is I regularly see salespeople

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that come in and they, they

gimme their standard sales pitch.

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I'm like, I'm not buying your product.

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And I and I, and I'll literally say

to them, tell me about what you just

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presented to me, how that was specific

to me versus making it something

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you could just give to anyone.

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And they're like, well,

I give this to everyone.

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I'm like, well, that's why you're

gonna struggle with sales because if I

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don't feel like you're customizing your

presentation to me, I feel like you're

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just throwing out your generic pitch,

and that's not persuasive, you know?

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So, so I work a lot on really knowing your

audience, finding out what's important

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to them, and making sure your entire

content speaks to what's important to

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them as opposed to what you wanna say.

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John: It's, it's, it's interesting

you say that 'cause uh, one of the

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things that's been coming up a bunch

of times in conversations I've been

357

having with, people in the industry is.

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Um, about how much more demand there

is for customization in talks and

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presentations for, for businesses.

360

Whilst definitely.

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Definitely speakers, uh, who I know

personally and, and I do myself, who,

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who will adapt their presentations

to wherever they're going and

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do a bit of work and research.

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There are definitely more, the very

much the also cut and paste speakers who

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will take exactly the same presentation

everywhere, uh, who aren't doing that.

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But the industry is now know in terms of,

I say corporate speaking, probably more

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than anything else, very much demanding.

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More, more audience interaction

in talks and, and more

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customization to, to their roles.

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So what you're saying is that this

stuff is, is critical, really critical

371

in being able to, you know, get

the bookings and, and be effective

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Michael Delisser: and

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John: in those environments.

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Michael Delisser: knowing.

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How to keep your audience engaged

from beginning to end, right?

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That starts with having a very clear,

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audience focused purpose

that speaks to something

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that's important to them, right?

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And, and

380

when you grab their attention.

381

Then you still have to find

382

ways to keep their attention by

making each slide relevant to

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something that hits on a pain or

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gain for them, particularly if you're

doing a persuasive presentation.

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And what ends up happening

386

is if you don't take the

time to make sure that you're

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constantly giving them a reason

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to stay focused, then

they start to multitask.

389

Especially if you're doing something

virtual like this, you know where they

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start to, you know, the world's attention

span is getting shorter and shorter.

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So

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either you're finding a way to

keep them engaged and continually

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speaking to their needs and hitting on

394

the hot buttons for them.

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Or you should assume that at five

or 10 minutes into your presentation

396

they're, they're daydreaming or

multitasking or doing something else.

397

And that's the real challenge, is

if you're not a hundred percent

398

dialed in on your audience's needs,

399

and if you're presenting too much

information and not focusing on just a

400

few things that are most important to

that audience, you're gonna lose them

401

and you're not gonna be persuasive.

402

John: Lemme ask you what, what, what,

when people come to work with you.

403

what usually is the main, the main goal,

the main outcome that they're looking

404

to achieve from, from working with

405

Michael Delisser: It's, it's

usually one of three things.

406

I think one is helping make their

content really hit home with the

407

audience more because they've been

told that, you know, that really

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didn't move me or that wasn't over,

you know, so getting the content more.

409

Not both tighter and

more audience focused.

410

That'd be one of the things.

411

The second thing would be even at

the executive level, overcoming,

412

you know, the conversations

they're having in their own head.

413

And sometimes that's related to

fears or thinking about did it

414

come out the right way or judging?

415

And, and so there's this whole

mindset piece where I will ask

416

people to, when they're presenting.

417

What were the thoughts that

were going through your head

418

in your last presentation?

419

You know, when something didn't go

well, what was literally the words that

420

you said to yourself in your brain?

421

And what you start to get

people to do is become aware of

422

their mindset.

423

And so on the

424

mindset scale, you know,

you can go from avoiding

425

like, I don't want to be

426

here, but I have to give this presentation

so I'm doing everything I can to

427

avoid it.

428

or you can go towards accepting,

knowing it's part of your job,

429

but sometimes enjoying it, but not

really loving it or really seeking.

430

You know, getting up there

and being excited to present.

431

And the challenge you have is that if

you have some conversation going on in

432

your head that's like, oh, I hope I don't

mess up or hope, I hope this audience

433

isn't judging me, or they're gonna think,

I don't know what I'm talking about.

434

All of those conversations cause you

to be in that either avoiding, well,

435

maybe not avoiding, but maybe you're

in that, that place where your, your

436

conversations are not adding to your

confidence in, in the way you deliver.

437

And because of that.

438

Your presentation's gonna fall flat.

439

So the first thing is, I am, you know, on

this particular topic, and your and your

440

mindset could be different on every topic,

441

asking them what is your mindset?

442

What are the thoughts that you're having?

443

And then if they're not, I'm gonna

crush this and this is gonna go really

444

well and I'm excited and I'm the

expert in the room, then helping them

445

become aware and catching themselves.

446

When they start to use that negative

conversation or anything that changes

447

them, because if you don't walk in the

door feeling confident that you are the

448

person that's going to deliver this well,

then the audience or that you don't wanna

449

be there, your audience can detect that.

450

And so what can you do for

yourself to change your mindset

451

now?

452

John: I think those things are, are

the things that probably have the

453

potential to be as distracting as

somebody putting their hand up each

454

time you say, a filler They can really.

455

Take you out of it, uh, and, take your

attention away from what you're doing.

456

Yeah.

457

Uh, I was chatting with just a commenting

on a post on LinkedIn yesterday, a

458

speaker who was saying, you know, doing,

doing like five days of keynotes, which

459

is like five, five Good for you, man.

460

But, uh, five in a row, he said like

on day five, uh, halfway through the

461

keynote, he was already thinking about

his next presentation next week, even

462

thinking about the first line and

had to like snap himself back into.

463

Into being present there and

focusing on what he was doing.

464

'cause his brain was like trying to take

him into, into next week and like, yeah,

465

I've done that on podcasts, I've done that

on stage, I've done it in comedy shows.

466

Like we, we do this, we

do this to ourselves.

467

And it is like we have to be, we

have to be present and in the moment

468

and there with the audience and

for ourselves not thinking about,

469

what did I mess up last time?

470

What if I mess up this time?

471

Just

472

Michael Delisser: And which by the

473

way, those

474

John: be there

475

Michael Delisser: in our

head have probably been there

476

most of our lives, right?

477

They're learned behaviors,

and so part of the

478

message to yourself is

when you're getting good

479

at catching yourself with

that negative thought.

480

Reminding yourself, that's

an old program in your

481

brain, and it's not true

unless you make it true.

482

You know, I I, at that time, I was

going through that presentation

483

that went horribly in college.

484

I was going

485

through another class with a

with a professor on intercultural

486

communication, and she was talking

487

about how some cultures, they, you

know, things like they view death as

488

a great ex, you know, a great thing.

489

And, and, but, but, but the

mo, the point she was making is

490

that.

491

There is

492

no good or bad in the world

unless you choose it, right?

493

There's no animal in

494

the world that thinks good or bad.

495

It's only humans and all the rest.

496

You know, if, if, if,

animals are in a drought.

497

They

498

can't have food.

499

They're not sitting there

thinking the situation stinks.

500

They're just conserving their energy.

501

Right?

502

Or they, if they don't have any water.

503

and so at that time, what I, what

what she's basically saying is,

504

you have an ability to choose

505

whether a situation is

506

good or bad.

507

You just had a presentation that went bad.

508

You could sit there and say,

oh no, this is horrible.

509

Or you could say, wow, I have

an opportunity to learn from

510

this and really get better.

511

Right?

512

And so the mindset is really key, is

catching yourself with a negative thought.

513

Then saying, Nope, that's

not what I'm gonna do.

514

What I'm gonna do is take this

experience and make it into a tool

515

to help me be improved dramatically.

516

And then you get excited about

doing something with it as opposed

517

to regretting that it happened.

518

John: Yeah, which I guess goes, goes

somewhere to explaining how and why you

519

turned around that negative experience

into something that you built a, a career

520

on helping other people make better for

themselves and, and for yourself as well.

521

Um, in terms of not, not just how

you prepare that professionally and

522

helping other people, but Experience

on stage, where do you, where do you

523

feel that you've been able to make the

biggest breakthroughs and improvements?

524

And, and that will, and I'll add

to that as well, I hope it doesn't

525

make the question too complicated,

but how has that benefited

526

Michael Delisser: You know, the,

the thing that I always resort back

527

to anytime I'm putting together a

presentation is, is did I answer the

528

three questions that every audience

has in the back of their mind, right?

529

The first question is, do I trust you?

530

And so when I, when you're putting

together a presentation, if you haven't

531

done something in the first few minutes

to demonstrate your trust, and there's two

532

types of trust, there's personal trust.

533

Do I trust you as a person?

534

And, and the other one is professional

535

trust.

536

Do I trust your knowledge on

this topic you're talking about?

537

And so the first question every

audience wants to know is,

538

should I trust this person?

539

That's why when you see a news

540

program and they have an expert on,

before the person opens their mouth, they

541

rattle off.

542

10 or 11 things about

this person's background.

543

They're the author of

544

this, they're 10 years doing

this, and they wanna take

545

any doubt in your brain about

if you should trust this

546

person who's about to speak.

547

So what are you doing in your own

548

presentations?

549

Are you upfront?

550

and And, I'm not talking about

bragging, I'm talking about talking

551

about, for example, saying things

552

that prove, you know,

your audience's needs.

553

That will develop personal trust.

554

discussing how you researched a topic

and how you came up with your information

555

could cause professional trust or

your credentials without necessarily

556

saying, I have a PhD and I have this,

you know, you don't have to say your

557

credentials, you can just deliver.

558

Your experience around it in a way

that's part of the story, right?

559

So that's one thing is do I trust you?

560

The second question is, can I follow you?

561

Do I understand you?

562

And so that is, did I lay this

out in a logical way that.

563

Introduces a problem or a challenge and

leads to why this solution is the right

564

path forward, and how do we get, implement

it, you know, if you're doing a, an

565

actual, presenting an idea or a solution.

566

So that's the second one is

did you lay it out logically?

567

Did you only cover the most critical

detail that's needed for the audience?

568

And then did you, did you do it in a

way that is easy for them to follow?

569

And the third question is, did I, did

I connect to the audience's needs?

570

Did I, you know, make them

feel the presentation?

571

Feel like I spoke to their hot buttons.

572

And so if I work on those three

questions, personalizing it to feel

573

to the hot buttons, making sure I've

laid it out as a good flowing story

574

that logically leads 'em down the

road, giving good evidence, and then

575

also establishing my own credibility.

576

If you do those three things, you're

going to have a pretty good presentation.

577

And the key is as you're putting

together your content, making sure

578

you're answering those three questions.

579

John: Right, and, and these

really are the cornerstones of.

580

Good communication that's

laid down by Aristot.

581

Right.

582

And

583

Michael Delisser: those three things

are directly aligned to, you know,

584

the three Aristotle, you know.

585

So the first one is ethos, which is

establishing your credibility for the

586

most part, getting, establishing trust.

587

The second one is, is,

logos, which is the logic.

588

And the third one is pathos,

which is the emotional connection.

589

And so.

590

I go through every time I'm presenting

and look at those three things.

591

And when I'm giving feedback to

others, I'm looking to see how

592

they did in those three things.

593

'cause all of us are typically stronger at

one of those three things, and we usually

594

have one that we're weaker at, right?

595

When I ask people, when I'm coaching

them or in classes which you strongest at

596

most people feel like they're strongest

at creating the logical argument.

597

if there's an area where they

need to improve, it's one spending

598

more time establishing their

credibility with the audience.

599

Or it's more often than not, did

I personalize it to the point

600

that I spoke to their hot buttons.

601

And you can leave out any

one of those three And you

602

lose your persuasiveness.

603

And so you need to know which one is your

604

strength and which one's your weakness.

605

and work on those two.

606

Leveraging the strength and

minimizing the weakness one.

607

John: Yeah.

608

You know, in, in, in my experience, I,

I agree people often struggle with all

609

three of those, but they usually have

one probably is the biggest challenge.

610

Um.

611

My coaching has, has mostly been that,

um, it's the pathos, the connection area,

612

the emotional area where people seem to

struggle the most on stage, especially in

613

corporate environments, in professional

speaking environments, where I think

614

this whole concept of professionalism

sometimes gets in the way of making

615

Michael Delisser: and I'll give you a

616

John: relating to the

617

Michael Delisser: of

exactly what you just said.

618

I will have people say to

me, oh, our senior leadership

619

isn't interested in our ideas.

620

And I'll say, well, tell me about

the last time you presented an idea.

621

And, and I'll say, tell

me how you presented it.

622

And what I hear more often

than not is, Hey, I have an

623

idea that we should implement.

624

And here's, you know, how we should do it.

625

But what they forget to do is paint

the pain of the problem in detail.

626

Because if you end up bringing an idea

to someone and they don't feel the

627

pain of the problem, they don't wanna

628

buy your solution, but if they

feel the pain of the problem,

629

by the time they're done

630

hearing the cost of the problem to

your customer, to your department,

631

to your overall productivity,

to your, you know, your

632

employee engagement numbers,

whatever the issue might

633

be, if you make them feel

the pain of that problem.

634

Now they're hungry for a solution

and they wanna hear your solution.

635

And so what people do is when they

636

present to executives and they fail,

more often than not, they didn't spend

637

enough time making them feel the

pain of the problem from a standpoint

638

of what is pain to the executives,

not to you personally, right?

639

So what's important to the executives and

how do you frame the issue that you're

640

trying to resolve in terms of the three

things that they care about the most?

641

What are the metrics they care about?

642

What are the outcomes they care about?

643

And then once you've made that connection.

644

Then you can say, okay, now that I know

these are the things, how do I say it

645

in a way that's gonna make them want

my solution and get hungry for it?

646

Then you deliver the solution and now

they're, they're all ears because you

647

just made 'em realize, we gotta solve this

problem because you made them feel a pain.

648

John: that, you know, it's like, um,

I, I fairly regularly put out LinkedIn

649

articles and I like writing Michael.

650

I enjoy it most of the time.

651

I guess I've got some followers,

some people comment, but

652

it's a lot of crickets.

653

You know, it's not a huge

amount of responsiveness.

654

Yesterday I put out an article that was

really about why so many great speakers

655

are broke, and you would, maybe, you

would believe that the, the response

656

to that one article been phenomenal.

657

And it's just like, uh, in

my head, almost expected.

658

'cause I'm, I'm pretty used to being

pretty well ignored on LinkedIn and all of

659

a sudden everyone's, everyone's commenting

and, and checking in and, and people

660

are booking in like, what's going on?

661

Um, which of course I love, but you know,

it's that, it is definitely an example of.

662

Speaking to people in the

language of their pain and what,

663

what's really hitting them.

664

And that, clearly resonated with so

many people about the whole thing of

665

needing to treat career as a business.

666

as well, that, um, that the, the response

667

Michael Delisser: Yeah, and when

I go through like, let's say

668

someone typically in a coaching

session, one of the first things

669

I'll have them do is do

670

a five minute presentation to me.

671

I and I, within five minutes I can tell

you what are the few things they need

672

to work on.

673

I mean, it comes out pretty

clearly, but then I'll

674

stop and I'll go through each individual

675

slide and I'll, and I'll sit there

and I'll ask them, what is the

676

purpose of this slide right here?

677

What outcome do you want to achieve by

putting this slide in your presentation?

678

And they'll tell me what the outcome is

679

and then I'll say, well, why doesn't

your heading speak to that outcome?

680

And why doesn't your content

681

speak to that outcome?

682

Why is it not on there?

683

Or, what words are you gonna

684

say when you show this slide or

whatever it is you're showing, or what

685

story you're telling,

or whatever it may be.

686

and

687

more.

688

And that's there.

689

There's like this

690

light that goes on in their heads

when they realize, oh, you know what?

691

I don't need this slide in there.

692

Oh, I didn't

693

speak to what's most important

to my audience on this.

694

So if they stop And say, there needs

to be a clear purpose for everything

695

you cover, and that purpose needs to

be articulated in a way that speaks to

696

you what's important to your audience.

697

And more often than not,

698

people articulate it

sometimes, but what's.

699

In a way that's what's

important to them personally.

700

It's me, me, me and I, I, I, or they just

never actually, they, they put information

701

out there, but they never connect the

dots to why you should care about this.

702

And so I'll say, why should

your audience care about this?

703

And then they'll look at the slide

and be like, this doesn't even speak

704

to the reason why they should care.

705

And they'll redesign it, right?

706

So.

707

John: O one of one of the things.

708

That helps people be effective, I

think on stage as communicators is

709

being able to be trusted in their own

personality, be com competent, confident

710

in, and in their content as well.

711

Um, and I wonder, wonder if we, if we

will agree on this, but um, do you feel.

712

That anybody, anybody be a good

speaker or anyone could be, uh,

713

a great communicator or other

personalities that you feel definitely

714

are more suited to this and some that

715

Michael Delisser: Yeah.

716

The answer to the first question

is absolutely anybody with any

717

personality preferences can be a

powerful speaker, provided they're

718

leveraging their strengths and creating

workarounds for their weaknesses.

719

Right?

720

So great example.

721

you could say that there's two

more outgoing personality types.

722

The result driven personality and the

people driven, personality they can be.

723

Outgoing and articulate, and, and they can

make their points in very convincing ways.

724

But you know, for the results driven

person, are you doing it in a way that

725

speaks to the audience's interests and for

the individual person, they may be good

726

at speaking to the audience's interest

as, but are you laying it out in a

727

structured way that makes sense to people?

728

And, and you could go

through each personality

729

type and if I knew someone's personality

assessments before I watched them present.

730

I can pretty

731

much anticipate the habits they're

gonna have based on their personality.

732

And so if you were an introverted

personality, whether you're more

733

structured or you're more kind of

mission focused and why focused,

734

and you're more

735

of an information driven person, those two

736

personalities are more likely to give

too much detail because they're trying

737

to get you to fully understand things

or lay things out fully logical.

738

And those would be the two

personality types that are most

739

likely to give too much information.

740

If you're more of a people

person, you're more likely to.

741

Jump off topic and just kind of

have fun with the audience, but

742

you're not necessarily going

down a, a, a structured path.

743

And if you are more of a results

driven person, you may be seen it in

744

a way that doesn't connect with people

because you're so focused on the result.

745

And so what I do is, is I get people

to recognize how their personality

746

impacts, how their content comes across.

747

And then I say to them, you

need to, for every presentation.

748

Review it for all four personality

needs, you know, so a results driven

749

person needs a very clear what?

750

And they need it succinctly delivered.

751

A people person needs to hear

the, the, the, The who, you know,

752

who's gonna be impacted and, and

how will we be involved in it?

753

Those kind of things.

754

If you're more of a, a, a why

focused person or a mission-driven

755

person, you want to make sure

people fully understand the why.

756

And if you're more of a structure person,

you have to make a clear path to the how.

757

And so if you are thinking of those

four things, what needs to be said?

758

Who needs to hear it and

why it's important to them.

759

You know, the, the why is the third

one, and then the fourth one is, how

760

do I deliver it in a structured way?

761

You will become much more effective.

762

And for me, I'm good on the two

people personality type, the why

763

and the, and the people person.

764

But I'm not strong in

structure or results.

765

So when I do a review of my presentation.

766

I do a review just for how well

structured is it, how logical is it?

767

Did I provide the right evidence and

only the right evidence and limit

768

it to the most important evidence?

769

And did I do it in a succinct way?

770

And for the people that maybe

have more why questions, maybe

771

I give 'em a handout with more

information they'll look at later.

772

But you have to cater to all four

personality needs and, and we all have

773

all four of those personalities in us.

774

We have an ability to dial them

up in the moments we need them.

775

So people will tell me, you know,

sometimes when I'm presenting, I've

776

actually had someone tell me, you're,

yeah, you're, you must be like structure

777

driven, you know, because you were

very structured the way you present.

778

That's my absolute weakest one.

779

That's like the greatest

compliment I could ever receive

780

is someone calling me structured.

781

Because more often than not, my

lack of structure is what gets me

782

into trouble when I'm presenting.

783

John: Yeah, I, I, I get that.

784

I, I see it in my speaking journey, you

know, I, I see that, uh, information

785

and, and, uh, um, I say information and,

uh, people focused probably my natural.

786

Style.

787

Uh, so sometimes the sort of results and

structure stuff was, was not so, good.

788

But I do see that now, uh, I naturally

do that in my presentations and how I

789

create them, but it is from experience

and, you know, repetition and training

790

and, and all those things that

able to do that didn't just happen.

791

Uh, and so I definitely get how

important it is to be able to.

792

Communicate in that sort of way and

make sure you capture the whole room

793

because, you know, whilst I'm not, I'm

not big on the sort of, you, you've come

794

across like learning styles that some

of this stuff got based on, of like how

795

people say I'm a visual learner or I'm

an auditory learner and stuff like that.

796

It's like, yeah, we, we, we are, we

all are, but all, all of these things.

797

But we do have some preferences

that's important to cater

798

to, but nobody is purely.

799

Visual learner.

800

Nobody's purely an learner

unless they have to be.

801

Right.

802

um, nobody's purely a kinesthetic learner.

803

There's like, we all have these we

just have preferences within them.

804

Uh, and I don't think you ever

come across the people say, oh

805

no, I, I can't, I even heard this.

806

I can't listen to a podcast.

807

I'm a visual

808

Michael Delisser: but you know.

809

And, and look, someone, it's,

it's, just like saying personality

810

types.

811

I'm, I have a, a preference for results

812

or for people, or for structure, right?

813

It's the, it is the

814

same thing, but to actually

build presentations to

815

learning styles ignores the outcome.

816

Focus.

817

Like if you're focusing on outcomes.

818

If you're outcome, let's

819

say you're doing a safety training, right?

820

And you need people to be safe.

821

Doing

822

it auditory as opposed to showing

823

them how to be safe is

not going to work right.

824

And so you have to think about what's

825

the outcome I'm trying to achieve and

what is the best means for delivering

826

it?

827

And can I overlap a couple different

things that accommodate a couple of those,

828

both auditory and you know,

kinesthetic or whatever

829

it is But You You cannot put together

your presentation with a style in mind.

830

You have to put together your presentation

831

with an outcome in mind, and then

figure out how do you deliver it

832

in a way that gets to that outcome.

833

And,

834

and sometimes it needs to

involve a demonstration.

835

It needs to involve a

836

video, it needs to involve, but you

choose the delivery method based

837

on the outcome you're trying to

achieve and which method is going to

838

be most effective to achieve that.

839

And if you're, if it's informational and

you want people to retain the information.

840

Just saying at once

isn't gonna get it done.

841

So are you also gonna give

them something in writing?

842

Are you also going to give them some kind

of, story that makes it more memorable?

843

You know, there's a lot of techniques

you can use, but you, you need to keep

844

it focused on the outcomes you're trying

to achieve and have that drive it.

845

And then later you could say, okay,

did I speak to these personality types?

846

Did I speak to these,

these learning styles?

847

But you cannot start with that.

848

That's a mistake if you

849

John: you can check in again, right?

850

Yeah.

851

I, I, I would concur with that.

852

With all the areas that you do

work with people on, is there a

853

particular element that you tend to

find makes the biggest difference?

854

The biggest impact on how

they show up or how they, how

855

Michael Delisser: The two things I

think are the biggest is mindset.

856

You know, getting them to tell me what

are their thoughts about presenting

857

this to this particular audience

and getting it out on the table.

858

What are the thoughts that they're having?

859

'cause those will be the biggest barrier,

one of the biggest barriers to preventing

860

them from delivering it effectively.

861

If those thoughts are counter to achieving

their outcome, if they're worried about

862

being judged by their executives they're

presenting to or worried about, you know,

863

get it out and then get them good at.

864

Blocking those thoughts or replacing them,

not necessarily blocking 'cause you need

865

to embrace them, but also replace them.

866

So it's, it's what can you do to catch

yourself in the moment of having a thought

867

that's counterproductive and turning it

868

into something positive?

869

And, and look, you can, a lot of these

things, you can, these same habits

870

you do when you present, they'll

871

be in regular conversations.

872

So you can actually use

regular conversations.

873

Like for me, when I was working

on reducing my filler speech.

874

I would take a one-on-one

conversation with a friend,

875

and for that one conversation,

I go way outta my way to stop

876

using filler speech in that

one-on-one conversation.

877

And it eventually translates

to how you present because you

878

become more and more aware in an

off stage situation, so to speak.

879

So that's one of the things.

880

The other one too is not getting

into the head of their audiences.

881

You must understand what is most

important to them and speak to

882

what's most important to them.

883

And I regularly will hear presentations

that are not customized to the audience.

884

They've done nothing to personalize or

to make it feel like it's that for them.

885

And they spend more time talking

about what they want to achieve as

886

opposed to why it's important for

the audience to know to achieve it.

887

So those are two of the

things that come to mind.

888

And then the, the, the flow

thing constantly comes up too.

889

You know, people, you know, the way I look

at it is when you're, when you're putting

890

together a presentation, it's always

better to try to watch a recording of it

891

first, to see where it slows down or where

it stops, or where do I lose my momentum?

892

Then also looking at the, do

I have a why for every slide?

893

Because more often than not, the first

time they go through it with me and

894

the second time they go through it

with me, there's probably 10 to 15

895

less slides involved and, and it's

because they realize there wasn't a

896

good why and they were focusing on

more than the most important 20%.

897

And if people do that and then

leveraging their own strengths,

898

that'll make a big difference.

899

I think what people need to recognize

is that with technology advances and AI.

900

More and more of the technical part

of our jobs are going to be replaced.

901

And so what does that leave us with?

902

It leaves us with our ability to get

results done through others as a leader.

903

And your primary means for doing

that is going to be, you know,

904

either in one-on-one conversations,

meeting management, you know, giving

905

presentations or writing, right?

906

Three of those, well,

actually all four of those.

907

Every principle we've talked about so far.

908

Is relevant to all four of

those types of communication.

909

And so I call them the leadership

communication Core four.

910

And, and I'm actually, I'm in, I'm in

the process of writing the second book

911

that's focused on just those four areas.

912

But ultimately, your ability to be

effective in the future and really be

913

stand out as different is gonna come

down to your communication skills

914

because more and more of your technical

skills are gonna get replaced, much

915

faster than your communication skills.

916

So if you cannot articulate what you need

or want in a persuasive way that speaks

917

to the needs of an audience, your ability

as a leader is gonna be very limited.

918

And, and, and look, you can create

a presentation for a one-on-one

919

or for a meeting, or for, you

know, something that's actual

920

presentation to a larger group.

921

Regardless of that, you have to find

a way to make people wanna follow

922

your ideas or follow you as a leader.

923

And if you can't do that

well, you're going to

924

struggle.

925

And I'll tell you that

if you get really good

926

at those four things,

927

you know, coaching.

928

Meeting

929

management presentation skills,

more often than not, you can

930

use that in meetings as well.

931

Those are the things

that are gonna make you

932

stand out and get people to

wanna follow and get people

933

to wanna buy into your ideas.

934

and and more and more as a

935

and

936

I takes over more, AI takes over more

and more of our technical things.

937

So I think it's, it's

becoming more critical.

938

And unfortunately people, we also

live in a time where people are

939

getting

940

less effective at it because they're using

technology instead of working on these

941

skills.

942

And so we see a trend that.

943

Requires

944

more of it and a reduction in skill

945

overall, and that's a bad separation.

946

That's not gonna help your success.

947

So I would tell people, if

948

you

949

really wanna stand out as

a leader, work on this in

950

particular,

951

and your one-on-one skills

using the same principles.

952

Those two things will really make a

difference in your career success and

953

will help you at higher and higher levels

because most people get fired eventually

954

based on a lack of communication

skills, not because of technical skills.

955

John: True, true enough.

956

It's interesting.

957

Fascinating to me, maybe to you too, that,

um, these skills were so vitally important

958

at a time when there was no technology.

959

So that pre-industrial revolution there

centuries, uh, ancient, uh, ancient

960

Greece and Romes are the, these skills

of oratory and and rhetoric were,

961

were vitally important in leadership

there and now, in a time advanced

962

technology and the advent of ai.

963

Just as important.

964

Again, I felt maybe they haven't

ever stopped being so important.

965

These are ultimately the skills of,

of leadership and communication that?

966

I, I agree with you.

967

I don't think they're ever

gonna go away on or be

968

replaced,

969

And,

970

we, we need to learn them.

971

Michael Delisser: Yeah.

972

And, and that they're, they're

increasing in importance because

973

technology is becoming more and

more automated and, and people.

974

There's, there's a great quote from a

Harvard professor that I, that, I can't

975

think of the name of the person, but

that basically said, you're not going

976

to be replaced by ai, but people who are

not using ai, are going to be replaced

977

by people who are using ai, right?

978

And so you need to embrace the technology

that's out there in order to be

979

successful, but to really stand out.

980

Everyone else is embracing that too.

981

So you need to work on your communication

skills to make you stand out.

982

So that you are not just another person

using ai, but you're a person that

983

can articulate your ideas and and sell

them to others and get people on board

984

and wanna follow you.

985

John: Hundred percent

Ludi, Luddites beware.

986

Um, pay attention is that we, we.

987

Need to embrace the technology.

988

Um, you mentioned you have a,

a new book in the works, um,

989

so you already have a book out.

990

Can, can you

991

tell us a bit about that?

992

Michael Delisser: Yeah.

993

The, the book that I have out is all

about self-awareness raising And, so

994

it's called Leadership Accelerators.

995

the, the subline to it

is, is, um, you know.

996

They're basically high impact

communication skills that improve

997

your ability to get results and

rela improve relationships, right?

998

And so, but ultimately

focuses on three things.

999

And these are critical to your

effectiveness as a presenter as well.

00:46:58,176 --> 00:47:02,736

But do you have high

self-awareness and self-control?

00:47:02,736 --> 00:47:02,916

Right?

00:47:02,916 --> 00:47:04,576

and those are two areas

of emotional intelligence.

00:47:04,576 --> 00:47:08,776

And, and, and in the book, uh,

it's built to help you improve

00:47:08,776 --> 00:47:09,946

your skill in these things.

00:47:10,531 --> 00:47:11,491

You know all of them.

00:47:11,761 --> 00:47:14,791

But the first one is, is improving your

emotional intelligence, particularly

00:47:14,791 --> 00:47:16,501

in the two areas that are self-focused.

00:47:16,501 --> 00:47:20,341

So self-awareness and self-control, and

being able to manage those emotions that

00:47:20,341 --> 00:47:23,011

are happening, the fears and whatever

else is going on when you present.

00:47:23,491 --> 00:47:26,851

The second area is understanding

how, what communication habits

00:47:26,851 --> 00:47:29,671

you have and how they're helping

or hurting your effectiveness.

00:47:30,421 --> 00:47:33,931

And leveraging the strong

communication habits and minimizing

00:47:33,931 --> 00:47:34,531

and creating

00:47:34,531 --> 00:47:36,781

workarounds for the ones

that are not so effective.

00:47:37,231 --> 00:47:41,161

And the third area I focus on is

how your personality impacts every

00:47:41,161 --> 00:47:43,621

aspect of how you communicate and your

00:47:43,806 --> 00:47:44,851

relationships with others.

00:47:45,241 --> 00:47:48,511

And how by accommodating the

personality types of others.

00:47:49,486 --> 00:47:52,876

You can present what you need to

say in a way that allows you to

00:47:52,876 --> 00:47:55,846

have a better relationship with them

and or come across more clearly.

00:47:56,176 --> 00:47:58,756

So those are the three

main areas that I focus on.

00:47:59,236 --> 00:48:02,326

But the book is set up by saying,

here's an assessment to help

00:48:02,326 --> 00:48:03,466

you improve in one of these

00:48:03,466 --> 00:48:03,946

areas.

00:48:04,486 --> 00:48:06,646

Here are specific things you can do.

00:48:07,021 --> 00:48:08,821

To immediately improve in those areas.

00:48:08,821 --> 00:48:12,061

And then here's a way to plan

out how you can make it happen.

00:48:12,061 --> 00:48:15,511

Because more often than not, anytime

you're working on a communication

00:48:15,511 --> 00:48:19,711

skill or overcoming a communication

habit, you need to focus on a

00:48:19,711 --> 00:48:21,811

daily or you'll not make progress.

00:48:21,841 --> 00:48:26,161

And, and daily could be one conversation

a day or, but doing something to

00:48:26,161 --> 00:48:29,851

work on that thing because, uh,

we're trying to overcome things that

00:48:29,851 --> 00:48:33,691

we've been doing for decades and

they don't go away overnight unless

00:48:33,691 --> 00:48:34,861

you give it daily attention.

00:48:35,008 --> 00:48:36,503

John: Yeah, and the book called

00:48:37,771 --> 00:48:40,111

Michael Delisser: Leadership

accelerators with an S on the end.

00:48:40,111 --> 00:48:41,401

It's available on Amazon.

00:48:41,761 --> 00:48:44,411

so people go out there and do a

search for leadership accelerators.

00:48:44,921 --> 00:48:45,496

Uh, they'll see it out

00:48:45,496 --> 00:48:45,576

there.

00:48:45,948 --> 00:48:48,033

John: Very Cool, and based on.

00:48:48,443 --> 00:48:51,803

You're saying about there, there's that

little challenges in their food with day.

00:48:51,803 --> 00:48:55,703

Based on everything that our listener

has heard from us today, is there a

00:48:55,703 --> 00:48:58,223

challenge that you would give to them

and say, Hey, look, you could go and

00:48:58,223 --> 00:49:01,373

work on this right now and put this,

put what we've been talking about,

00:49:01,373 --> 00:49:04,073

interaction, improve self-awareness,

00:49:04,343 --> 00:49:04,598

and so on.

00:49:05,906 --> 00:49:08,231

Michael Delisser: Yeah, and, and we, we

kind of led with this in the beginning of

00:49:08,231 --> 00:49:12,311

the conversation, but anything they can

do to get feedback on how they're coming

00:49:12,311 --> 00:49:13,931

across in different contexts, right?

00:49:13,931 --> 00:49:15,911

So whether it's one-on-one,

whether it's in.

00:49:15,911 --> 00:49:20,111

Your presentations, and it's gotta be

immediately following and even going to

00:49:20,111 --> 00:49:23,021

people in an advance of a presentation

saying, Hey, I'm gonna be presenting.

00:49:23,621 --> 00:49:26,561

Can you take note of the things I do

really well and the things that I could

00:49:26,561 --> 00:49:28,031

work on that could help improve me?

00:49:28,541 --> 00:49:30,881

The best tool for doing

that is recording yourself.

00:49:31,061 --> 00:49:33,821

You'll learn more from a recording

than anything else because you'll

00:49:33,821 --> 00:49:38,681

see it happening and see the impact

of it, but you have to constantly

00:49:38,681 --> 00:49:42,246

look for ways to get feedback and

look at all feedback as a gift.

00:49:43,196 --> 00:49:45,746

All experiences as an

opportunity to learn.

00:49:45,836 --> 00:49:47,246

You know, going back

to what I said earlier,

00:49:47,546 --> 00:49:47,696

you

00:49:47,696 --> 00:49:49,376

can sit there, you know, like I did

00:49:49,376 --> 00:49:51,326

initially when I had my terrible

00:49:51,326 --> 00:49:54,476

presentation and say, I don't

wanna go back in front of those

00:49:54,476 --> 00:49:54,926

people.

00:49:54,926 --> 00:49:55,166

And

00:49:55,166 --> 00:49:56,396

it was a terrible experience.

00:49:56,396 --> 00:49:57,631

Or you can say to yourself, you know what?

00:49:58,886 --> 00:50:00,326

More people learn from their

00:50:00,326 --> 00:50:03,986

negative experiences when presenting

than from the positive ones.

00:50:04,316 --> 00:50:05,006

So what am I

00:50:05,006 --> 00:50:05,186

gonna

00:50:05,186 --> 00:50:05,996

do to take this.

00:50:05,996 --> 00:50:07,976

experience and turn it into a positive?

00:50:08,246 --> 00:50:12,086

How am I gonna change my own

mindset to say, this was not bad

00:50:12,086 --> 00:50:13,346

that it happened, because now I'm

00:50:13,346 --> 00:50:17,756

gonna become even much Having had this

experience, once you shift in your

00:50:17,756 --> 00:50:21,986

head and see all experiences and all

feedback is good because it increases

00:50:21,986 --> 00:50:24,056

your self-awareness and your ability to

00:50:24,061 --> 00:50:24,331

improve.

00:50:25,106 --> 00:50:29,336

Then you can really start to

accelerate your ability to improve.

00:50:29,666 --> 00:50:32,036

And it really comes down

to moving from a place of

00:50:32,036 --> 00:50:34,106

self-perception to self-awareness.

00:50:34,436 --> 00:50:36,446

Self-perception is what

I think about myself.

00:50:36,716 --> 00:50:39,296

Self-awareness is when other

people confirm that what I

00:50:39,296 --> 00:50:40,616

think about myself is accurate.

00:50:41,126 --> 00:50:44,366

And that's the real key is once you get

to a place of self-awareness, you can

00:50:44,366 --> 00:50:47,966

start to focus on those one or two things

that'll have the biggest positive impact.

00:50:48,678 --> 00:50:53,183

John: I, I would just share this

before we finish up, but, uh, sometimes

00:50:53,183 --> 00:50:56,303

when I get feedback and I do love

getting feedback, but sometimes when

00:50:56,303 --> 00:50:58,198

I get feedback and it's not great.

00:50:59,258 --> 00:51:02,438

It's a bit like, uh, okay, that's a lot.

00:51:02,798 --> 00:51:06,218

Um, it can take me a day or so

just need to sit with it before I

00:51:06,218 --> 00:51:09,488

stop taking it personally and like,

all right, I can work with this.

00:51:09,488 --> 00:51:11,378

Now I have to get out my own way.

00:51:11,678 --> 00:51:14,198

As, so I think people need to be prepared.

00:51:14,198 --> 00:51:17,288

It sometimes it's hard not to take the

feedback personally, but you can, you get

00:51:17,288 --> 00:51:19,418

there and it's still gonna be beneficial.

00:51:19,418 --> 00:51:24,578

So it is worth bearing the, uh, the

discomfort of some uncomfortable

00:51:24,578 --> 00:51:27,158

feedback for the results that

you'll get in the long run.

00:51:27,218 --> 00:51:27,578

For sure.

00:51:27,901 --> 00:51:29,851

Michael Delisser: Well, and what

you've just said is critical.

00:51:29,851 --> 00:51:33,211

It's, you have to be in the right

mindset to receive the feedback.

00:51:33,211 --> 00:51:36,391

So don't ask for it unless you're

ready to hear anything, right?

00:51:36,391 --> 00:51:41,251

Because if you go into the feedbacks

almost with a objective consultant

00:51:41,251 --> 00:51:44,521

mindset of, I'm gonna learn what I can

and imagine this isn't feedback for me.

00:51:45,221 --> 00:51:48,281

It's just feedback that I can

deliver to me later, right?

00:51:48,911 --> 00:51:52,271

When you go into the mindset of it

may not be what I wanna hear, or even

00:51:52,271 --> 00:51:55,691

may not even be said that way, I wanna

hear it, but it's going to be good

00:51:55,691 --> 00:51:57,611

that I hear it in an objective way.

00:51:57,941 --> 00:52:00,761

If you go in with that

mindset, you will hear it.

00:52:00,761 --> 00:52:01,361

Well, you.

00:52:01,781 --> 00:52:05,141

You won't start to suddenly defend

yourself or, you know, because

00:52:05,171 --> 00:52:07,901

if you don't react well to the

feedback, when you get it, you will

00:52:07,901 --> 00:52:09,251

not get it again from that person.

00:52:09,761 --> 00:52:13,871

And so your ability to improve comes down

to your ability to hear it objectively.

00:52:14,201 --> 00:52:20,621

And no matter how it's stated, find a way

to positively turn it into a gift, right?

00:52:20,651 --> 00:52:24,761

All feedback is a gift if you do

something with it to improve or

00:52:24,761 --> 00:52:27,461

help you become more effective in

your relationships and results.

00:52:27,768 --> 00:52:31,113

John: I think that's a perfect place

for us to wrap up our conversation.

00:52:31,113 --> 00:52:33,513

Michael, I hope people will

go and check out your book.

00:52:33,543 --> 00:52:37,173

I'll have links in the show notes for

people who would like to find out more

00:52:37,173 --> 00:52:38,703

about you and maybe even get in touch.

00:52:39,033 --> 00:52:43,033

And, as wanna say, thank you for,

coming and being my guest today

00:52:43,033 --> 00:52:45,673

and having a great conversation

with me and also for struggling

00:52:45,673 --> 00:52:48,373

through with some of the technical

challenges we've had today as well.

00:52:48,553 --> 00:52:50,083

It's been worth pushing through with that.

00:52:50,133 --> 00:52:53,013

Michael Delisser: And, uh, I know we

had a lot of issues along the way that

00:52:53,013 --> 00:52:55,923

people won't see because you'll edit

them out, but this was a challenging

00:52:55,923 --> 00:52:57,333

one and uh, I'm gonna go work on my.

00:52:59,460 --> 00:53:01,050

John: I'll let you to do

that, Michael, but thank you

00:53:01,050 --> 00:53:02,490

so much and speak again soon.

00:53:02,490 --> 00:53:02,850

Take care.

00:53:03,485 --> 00:53:07,595

If there's one thread that runs through

this whole episode, I'd say it's this.

00:53:08,045 --> 00:53:12,275

You can't improve what you're unwilling

to see or what you don't know is there.

00:53:12,635 --> 00:53:15,725

Self-perception is what

you think about yourself.

00:53:15,995 --> 00:53:20,165

Self-awareness is when other people

confirm whether or not that's true.

00:53:20,675 --> 00:53:25,085

Now there's a gap between the two,

and that's often where speakers live.

00:53:25,575 --> 00:53:27,045

So here's your challenge.

00:53:27,465 --> 00:53:28,695

Record yourself.

00:53:29,175 --> 00:53:30,375

Ask for feedback.

00:53:30,375 --> 00:53:33,765

When you get it, resist

the urge to defend it.

00:53:33,765 --> 00:53:36,435

Just listen and accept the feedback.

00:53:36,750 --> 00:53:37,770

Be gracious.

00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:41,650

Remember, influence isn't about being

flawless, it's about being aware.

00:53:42,100 --> 00:53:44,440

If this episode has helped

you anyway, make sure you're

00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:45,775

following the show and, but

00:53:45,825 --> 00:53:47,925

maybe even share this with

somebody who already thinks

00:53:47,925 --> 00:53:49,125

they're a great communicator.

00:53:49,395 --> 00:53:51,075

You might be doing them a favor.

00:53:51,615 --> 00:53:55,815

I'm gonna be back very soon with a

political speech writer talking about some

00:53:55,815 --> 00:53:59,835

of the differences in political speech

writing and in speech writing in general,

00:53:59,835 --> 00:54:01,065

things that might be helpful with you,

00:54:01,065 --> 00:54:04,615

some of the rules of rhetoric that we may

have covered sometimes on the show before.

00:54:05,135 --> 00:54:10,175

He's been a political speech writer

in the US and it is interesting to

00:54:10,175 --> 00:54:13,295

hear about some of the differences

and things that go on there as well.

00:54:13,295 --> 00:54:16,355

So wherever you're going, whatever

you're doing, have an amazing

00:54:16,355 --> 00:54:18,065

rest of your day and week.

00:54:18,155 --> 00:54:18,945

We'll see you next time.