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#211 - The Beauty Load of Motherhood with Nicole Mathieson
Episode 21122nd September 2022 • Happy Mama Movement with Amy Taylor-Kabbaz • Amy Taylor-Kabbaz
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Our appearance is one aspect of who we are, it is not all of who we are and throughout the journey of matresence there is still a fuzzy line which is delivered as our body undergoes significant changes and levels of acceptance. My guest today is Nicole Mathieson who has impacted the lives of thousands of women through her writing, speaking, podcasts and work as a counsellor. In her book, The Beauty Load, Nicole explains our personal perception of our beauty, or the lack of it, can make us feel anything from numb to anxious, stressed and ashamed, and at worst like we don’t belong and that we are not worthy of being loved. Listen as Amy and Nicole extend the conversation and discuss:

  • Seeing ourselves to feel a sense of acceptability and representation to belong.
  • Generational changes and cultural messages which are still embedded in us, even as we unveil and uncover different versions of beauty.
  • Opening up conversations about the beauty load and each other in order to dismantle our own isolation and heal through conversations.
  • Talking to our sons and daughters in a way which is less knee jerk and unintentionally dismissive and much more understanding, accepting and healing for us all.

Nicole and Amy uncover so much in this insightful conversation in order to rethink how we approach many of our unconscious and rooted beliefs. To find out more about Nicole and her book Nicole Mathieson please visit https://nicolemathieson.com/thebeautyload/ and follow her @nicole.mathieson via Instagram.

There needs to be a change in the way mothers are valued and seen in our society. We are here to spread the whispers of Matrescence together.

Find out more and receive your Matrescence map here https://www.amytaylorkabbaz.com/matrescence/

Transcripts

Amy Taylor-Kabbaz:

Welcome to the Happy Mama Movement Podcast.

Amy Taylor-Kabbaz:

I'm Amy Taylor-Kabbaz.

Amy Taylor-Kabbaz:

I would like to start by acknowledging the Gadigal people of the Aura nation

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on which this podcast is recorded, as the traditional custodians of this land.

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And pay my respects to the elders past, present and emerging.

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And, as this podcast is dedicated to the wisdom and knowledge of motherhood, I

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would like to acknowledge the mothers of this land, the elders, their wisdom, their

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knowing and my own elders and teachers.

Amy Taylor-Kabbaz:

Welcome back Mamas.

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Have you ever noticed how much you worry about what you look like?

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How much you think about your face, your body, the clothes

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you wear, how your hair looks?

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I know silly question, right?

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Of course.

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Because as women moving through this modern world, this is part

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of what we carry all of the time.

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Even the most enlightened of us, will have moments of self consciousness.

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Moments of wondering if we are fitting in, if we look okay.

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My guest today on the podcast is Nicole Mathieson, the authour of

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a new book called The Beauty Load.

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Some of you may have heard of the mother load or the mental load, the

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things that we carry around sometimes so unconsciously, we don't even know

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we're carrying them around who we should be and all of the things we need to do.

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Nicole has spent thousands of hours listening to and supporting

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women as a counselor in this understanding of the beauty load.

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She saw over and over again in her therapy room, how this load that we

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carry was affecting women's self-esteem and how she too was grappling with it.

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This book is beautiful, inspiring, and actually has a lot similar with

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matresence and the work of Mama Rising, as you'll hear in our conversation.

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It's also a brilliant conversation to share with your teenagers,

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with other women in your life so we begin to break this cycle.

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I hope you enjoy it.

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Nicole welcome to the Happy

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Mama Movement Podcast.

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It's so lovely to see you.

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It's so lovely to be here.

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Thanks for having me Amy.

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I've been really excited to talk to

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you on the podcast because of your work that you are doing in the space

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of really questioning our culture's story and understanding of beauty.

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And so what I would really love to do over the next half an hour or

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so is really explore how this, I guess revelation started in you and

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how it's tied in with motherhood.

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Because so many of the women I've spoken to over the years, as we

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really change through matresence is we need to accept different definitions

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of beauty, of how our body looks of how we feel about ourselves.

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So thank you for being here and for starting this conversation.

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Yeah, I think joining these two

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ideas is just so exciting, isn't it?

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I mean, t he beauty load is just an, this big, hard to escape, inevitable

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pressure that we feel as women in this world that is obsessed with beauty.

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And I think, if there's no other time in our life, matresence is one of

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those transitions into a different body where it's inescapable that.

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And I think the aging that is beyond motherhood.

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For me matresence like, I wasn't really aware of matresence 17 years ago when

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I went through it the first time and I was very naive, I think looking back.

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I wish I had your stuff then.

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But what, having a baby awoke in me was a realisation that I was really

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quite anxious and that I really did not want to pass on the anxiety to this

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pure newborn that I had in my arms.

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It's it was okay until that moment for me to feel anxious,

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I was just coping with it.

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I was getting on with it.

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I was hardly noticing it, and it was just my norm.

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But the minute I had this beautiful pure new baby in my arms.

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I was like, hang on a sec, he can pick up on everything.

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And I did not want him picking up on this anxiety.

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So he was the catalyst for me to actually start doing my

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own work and looking within.

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And I think that's, that's one of the beautiful things

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about matresence, isn't it?

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Is like having children lifts us to a new level of, of self

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responsibility to some degree.

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Yes.

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And also, as you said, we are willing to make changes and do hard

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things as Glennon Doyle would say.

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We're willing to dive into the scary, dark parts of ourselves in

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a way, because we want it for them.

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I often say the reason why the universe gave me three children

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was because after the first two, I still wasn't getting the lesson.

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Like I still you know, and it was the third one that came along that was

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finally like, oh, I have to do this.

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I have to sort this out.

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And I think so often they are the catalysts for change.

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Not just because we need to do it for ourselves, but because we don't want

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them to carry that into the world or like your work with the beauty load, we

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want the world to be different for them.

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And that's the awesomeness of matresence.

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Right.

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That's right.

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And then if you think about when they get a bit older, The beauty load

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and how that enters into that space.

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I don't want my children to feel it the way that I've felt it.

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I don't want them to see a mother who is insecure about her body, who

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needs perfection to feel okay about her body, who is constantly on a diet.

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Can't enjoy food.

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Can't enjoy going to the beach.

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I don't want that for my children.

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So maybe it's also not okay for me.

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Exactly.

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Wow.

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So let's sort of take a moment here and just say, when you talk about

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the beauty load, what do you mean?

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I mean like a lot of your listeners

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will be familiar with the mental load.

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So that load that'll often women carry that is just a constant,

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uh, holding of all the things that need to be done in the home and

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in the family, maybe even at work.

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I see the beauty load, as a similar, it's a load.

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It sits on our shoulders.

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It is inevitable.

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It's hard to escape.

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It's a constant wondering, am I enough?

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Am I looking good enough?

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Is my body enough?

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Is my appearance enough?

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Are these clothes enough?

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Is my hair done okay?

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Is this too sexy or too, Uh, dowdy?.

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Are these heels appropriate?

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There's just so many levels of how we are constantly vigilant for

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how our body looks in the world.

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That it's a load and it's draining and anxiety provoking and it's

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insecurity provoking in us.

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And I think that it's so normal that we're oblivious to it a lot.

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We do the work we think, oh yeah, this is just what women do, this is

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just normal, and we get on with it.

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But I'm suggesting this is to whatever degree this is detrimental to you.

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It's, it's a problem.

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It's an, uh, it's a load that maybe we don't have to carry.

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I have an ongoing membership

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for a beautiful group of women.

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Um, there's over a hundred there at the moment.

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omen to rejoin again in early:

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But we've been talking the last few months, a lot around the

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definitions we carry about ourselves.

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And Nicole over and over again, whether we're talking about being too angry,

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too sensitive, too sexy, whatever it is that we are trying to unpack out of the

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culture of womanhood and motherhood, which is what the village is all about.

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It's breaking down the cultural assumptions of who we are and defining

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it for ourselves over and over again.

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Now that I know what the beauty load is, I can see how it plays out.

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For example, In the village this month, we're talking about

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being told we're too loud.

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as little Girls too loud, but one of the beautiful Mamas in our

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community said, I think I'm too loud when my clothes are too loud.

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Mm-hmm.

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And this sparks a beautiful conversation.

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And do you know how often the pressure of the school gates appearance

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is just as heavy as the pressure of, you know, to look a certain

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way in, in society as a whole.

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We, we check ourselves over.

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Is this outfit too much for school?

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Is this too sexy?

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Is this too loud?

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Or maybe I shouldn't wear this.

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And we are always, even when we are just doing the daily activities,

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like taking our kids to the school, that is a heavy load to carry.

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It's a constant heavy load.

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And I think what you are, what you are really tapping into there is where the

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beauty load crosses over with women having to be pleasant and not, uh,

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upset anyone and care taking really.

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It, it really is about how we've been suppressed.

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You know, it get, get me on my feminist bandwagon here.

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but,

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it.

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But you know, like we have, I, I suggest

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in my book that there are like multiple reasons why women feel this a lot

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more than men, but one of the biggest of those is that we have not been

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valued in other ways, like men have, we have not been valued for our voice.

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For our ideas for our creative creativity, for our collaborations, with other,

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you know, change makers for thousands of years, we've not been listened to.

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And so of course, we're going to put energy into something that does

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create safety for us in the world.

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And that is our looks, our appearance, but on the same hand that has, the safety has

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come at the cost of not being too much.

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Yeah.

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And appropriately is one of those stresses that we carry all the time, isn't it?

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It's like too sexy.

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Too much skin, too little skin.

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I don't know.

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It's constant.

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Yeah.

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It's constant, isn't it?

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And then you have the beautiful experience of the massive changes

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in our body in motherhood.

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And I know you and I have had conversations also about

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the massive changes of aging.

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And so I feel like this is a load that we carry as women through our whole life.

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I have teenage girls, I already see them carrying this.

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And then I look at, you know, the current conversation around perimenopause

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and menopause and trying to have more representative images of what

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it looks like to age as a woman.

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And it feels like, is there any point in our lives, Nicole, where

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we're not carrying a beauty load as women ? I don't think there is.

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No, don't think so.

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So I think what aging does do though, is it, it, it gets harder

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because we are getting further and further away from the ideal, which

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is youth, make no mistake about that.

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That is what's sold to us as beautiful, but we also care less about it.

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To some degree, as long as we are, I suppose, doing our work,

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you know, uh, in whatever way we become, we give less fucks about it.

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We, we care less about that version of fitting in, and we care a

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lot more about being ourself and belonging in our skin for ourself.

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Where our values are and the people that make us feel good.

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And wearing what suits us.

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I mean, I think it's nearly a coming of age, isn't it to wear what is

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fashionable rather than what is for us?

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And we've all been there.

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Oh,

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I think there's very, there's much fewer

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40 or 50 year old women who are squeezing themselves into something just because

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it's fashionable rather than it's for me.

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So.

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Yes.

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And no, it, there is no point in our lives that I have found where we

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don't feel or carry this beauty load.

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And I'm not suggesting that I'm free of it.

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And I'm not suggesting that reading this book will make you free of it.

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But what I am suggesting is that we need to get compassionate really about it.

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Compassionate and then angry.

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Is there, is there an anger step in there?

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There's definitely an anger.

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My book is divided into three sections and the first section

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is what is the beauty load?

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And the second section is what is it doing to us?

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And I think in those first two, it's like, oh my God, this is the culture.

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This is not about me personally.

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This is not about my body.

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And that is where we need to get angry.

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Yeah,

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Realise all those influences.

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Mm

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Uh, I've seen the same thing in

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the matresence activism that we do that I think that there needs

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to be this first step realisation that this is not our fault,

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Yes.

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that this is not our fault.

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This is literally what we've been taught from the moment we came into this world

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that we need to look a certain way and act a certain way and behave a certain way.

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Yeah.

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So, yes, it's the awakening.

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It's the realisation, it's the, almost the lifting of the veil.

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And then suddenly you start looking around yourself and you

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see it everywhere and everywhere.

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Before we start talking about, so, okay, the veil is lifted for you.

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You've started to see that this is a heavy load you're

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carrying and what to do about it.

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I wanted to first ask, I think in the last, I don't know, maybe five

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years, there's maybe a bit longer.

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There's been a real push to change the cultural norm of beauty.

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You know, not just white women with white skin and blonde hair

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and a certain size, a certain look.

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And I feel from just a consumer's point of view that we have really turned a corner.

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The sizes, the colors, the shapes, the messaging, all of it does seem

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to have, I feel quite quickly turned around considering how long it has

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been that one standard, but that's just from my very small algorithm

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of that I see in this world, in your research and your understanding.

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Do you think we've turned a corner in this?

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Look, I think we have, and I

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think that corner will continue to turn and I think social media

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has a big part to play in that.

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Because people have been finding their people and their belonging with, you

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know, people that do represent them.

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And representation is so important, like we need to be able to see ourselves out

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there to feel a sense of acceptability.

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Like we're okay.

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I think it's a beginning, but it's not enough.

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The research that I did was probably a few years old, by the time I got the stats.

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And, it was kind of saying like, representation is like

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25% or something like that.

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So it's not enough.

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It needs to get better.

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And the statistics on the percentage of the global population or even

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the population in Western worlds that is not white, is not reflected.

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Um, yeah, it's getting there.

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It's turned a corner.

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It's going to help, but I also think there is a generation of us.

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Well, I include myself in that grew up without any of that representation and

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thousands and thousands of messages a day that still informs our nervous

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systems about our acceptability.

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So I think that it's hard to retrofit.

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It does, it does a bit of work, but it still, it still sits inside us.

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Oh, I love that part of the conversation.

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Yes, that's so true.

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I look at perhaps, especially my 12 year old, nearly 13 year old, who very much is

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consuming very different images than even her older sister, a few years older, just

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because of how quickly this is turning.

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Um, but then I think about, how embedded it is in me to have one

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version of beauty because 40 years of the colonisation of beauty, really

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the very white colonised look, and how much that would be embedded in me.

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So that's a big Titanic to turn.

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Yes.

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That's it.

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it.

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Mmm.

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And again, to come back to, well

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it makes sense that we would have these beliefs that are

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interpreted to be about ourselves.

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Because of all that we've been exposed to over so many years, all those messages

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that, you know, and I think there's all those messages from the media and

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representation and what we were exposed to, but that's coupled with women's

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value being tied up with how we look.

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And we know that from the minute we are born and we are clucked over and

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told we're pretty and rewarded for it.

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So

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Yeah.

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Couple those together and decade

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after decade after decade, it's a lot.

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And we will get to

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solutions in just a moment.

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But I think the last thing I would add in here is also is really

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there's the generational line.

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So you have the cultural media stories.

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You have, you know, what you are told personally yourself,

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but also what you've inherited.

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And if you inherited from your mother's line, you know, dieting, worrying

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about how she looks, this particular image of who she needs to be in this

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world, again, with deep compassion, knowing that that's not her fault.

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00:19:17

But I think there's the third arm of the struggle here.

-:

00:19:19

That if you grew up with the example, almost in your genes of it's important to

-:

00:19:25

look a certain way and be a certain way, then that's a big thing to carry too.

-:

00:19:29

That's a heavy load.

-:

00:19:30

That's right.

-:

00:19:31

And, and also just to bring that back to matresence of that being

-:

00:19:34

the model of mothering that we need to unpack and dismantle.

-:

00:19:42

Yeah.

-:

00:19:43

Ooh, it's a big one.

-:

00:19:46

It's a big one.

-:

00:19:47

Yeah.

-:

00:19:49

But this is all possible.

-:

00:19:51

This is what we are here for.

-:

00:19:52

Possible.

-:

00:19:52

So.

-:

00:19:54

We are here to change the way we view

-:

00:19:57

things, both including ourselves and the world, so that this doesn't continue.

-:

00:20:01

So we start with compassion of understanding it's not

-:

00:20:05

our fault where it came from.

-:

00:20:06

And then how do we begin to break this down and free ourselves of this load?

-:

00:20:12

So, I think that the breaking

-:

00:20:14

down really is the, seeing the lifting that veil, the, seeing it.

-:

00:20:21

Seeing it as though you are an alien arriving on the planet and going,

-:

00:20:26

what is going on with this culture?

-:

00:20:29

You know, rather than as someone who has been conditioned through it.

-:

00:20:34

Unpacking it, and I think, you know, we can come together like in your

-:

00:20:37

village and, and do that for each other.

-:

00:20:40

Where did this message come from for you?

-:

00:20:43

What are, what are those moments?

-:

00:20:44

I call them shit storm of insecurity moments that

-:

00:20:49

generally happen in adolescence.

-:

00:20:51

You know that where everything just converges in puberty on how you look.

-:

00:20:59

So we need to unpack it a bit and like you say, get angry, realise

-:

00:21:05

it's not personal, find compassion.

-:

00:21:08

And I think we need to come back to what we know is true about ourselves.

-:

00:21:14

That is not about our appearance.

-:

00:21:16

Our appearance is one aspect of who we are.

-:

00:21:19

It is not all of who we are.

-:

00:21:21

And I feel like we've been brainwashed to think it is such a bigger piece

-:

00:21:25

of the puzzle from what it is.

-:

00:21:28

Um, so let's come back to what you value, what lights you up,

-:

00:21:32

all of those beautiful things.

-:

00:21:34

And when those dark messages to self, like those self critical moments

-:

00:21:42

happen, rather than believing those messages, we need to notice them and

-:

00:21:50

let, let that part of us know, it makes sense that we would be scared.

-:

00:21:54

Yeah.

-:

00:21:55

And to give it a big hug.

-:

00:21:57

So that's the compassion piece.

-:

00:21:58

Yeah.

-:

00:22:01

And I love that you mentioned

-:

00:22:02

the village, not because it's my program, but it's sense of we heal

-:

00:22:07

through conversations as women.

-:

00:22:10

And I recall a conversation I had with one of my best friends.

-:

00:22:14

I've known her for 25 years.

-:

00:22:16

We met before we, we were both engaged, we've had our babies

-:

00:22:19

together and she's a few years older than me, so she's just hit 50.

-:

00:22:23

And we were on a holiday recently.

-:

00:22:26

And we had a really beautiful, honest conversation about spending

-:

00:22:30

10 days on an island in, in bathers and how, you know, the, the changes

-:

00:22:39

that we have seen in each other.

-:

00:22:41

And how both of us, without even talking about it had tried to get to the gym a

-:

00:22:45

bit more before we got to the island.

-:

00:22:47

Like, you know, there's just this underlying anxiety of not just

-:

00:22:50

being in front of each other, but also everyone else on the island.

-:

00:22:53

Everyone.

-:

00:22:54

Yeah.

-:

00:22:54

And then, and how we

-:

00:22:55

both just said, fuck it.

-:

00:22:58

Like, you know, who cares?

-:

00:22:59

This is, we've had our babies.

-:

00:23:01

We've had our days where we could strut around in a bikini.

-:

00:23:03

And it was just the most healing and freeing conversation.

-:

00:23:09

Hmm.

-:

00:23:10

But if that conversation hadn't been

-:

00:23:11

there, Nicole, I think that would've been an underlying thing that whole holiday.

-:

00:23:17

And I consider myself like as a deeply, uh, reflective person who has done

-:

00:23:23

a lot of work on myself, obviously.

-:

00:23:26

And yet

-:

00:23:28

And yet.

-:

00:23:28

Here we are, we are not free from

-:

00:23:30

this, but having a conversation with each other and saying, yeah,

-:

00:23:34

I feel really awkward about it too.

-:

00:23:36

I don't, I don't really wanna walk around in my bathers, but

-:

00:23:39

I know my girls are watching me.

-:

00:23:40

And so I'm going to, and having that conversation is how we heal.

-:

00:23:45

Absolutely.

-:

00:23:46

But isn't it interesting that we don't, we don't have those conversations.

-:

00:23:53

We might say.

-:

00:23:55

I think, oh, I feel really shit today.

-:

00:23:58

Or, or does my bum look big in this?

-:

00:24:00

Oh God, I really have to do my hair, but that's nearly to get in

-:

00:24:05

there first, before someone can say a negative comment about us.

-:

00:24:10

Right?

-:

00:24:11

We don't actually say, do you know what Amy?

-:

00:24:15

I just feel really self-conscious wearing a bikini for 10 days.

-:

00:24:19

I'm really worried about my body.

-:

00:24:20

You know, to, to be really open and honest about the beauty load with

-:

00:24:27

each other, because, oh my gosh, you will find everyone is feeling it.

-:

00:24:34

And I think that that what happens is when we don't share is we isolate

-:

00:24:40

ourselves and it's that whole shame thing that happens right.

-:

00:24:43

When we isolate.

-:

00:24:45

Because I don't know that you are feeling it as well.

-:

00:24:47

And I'm imagining because I think you're hot and you don't have any

-:

00:24:51

problems with your body because you're so hot that it's just me and

-:

00:24:55

it becomes deep, more deeply personal.

-:

00:24:59

Yeah.

-:

00:25:00

And this beautiful conversation was really in the end around

-:

00:25:03

accepting that those days are gone you know, and that that's okay.

-:

00:25:08

And so my sister and I have had that conversation too,

-:

00:25:11

that, you know, don't worry.

-:

00:25:12

I remember when you were hot.

-:

00:25:14

I love it.

-:

00:25:16

Don't worry, I remember when your arse

-:

00:25:17

looked really good Amy, it's okay.

-:

00:25:19

You know, like, and,

-:

00:25:22

I'll just overlay

-:

00:25:22

that version of you over everything

-:

00:25:24

That's it.

-:

00:25:25

It's okay.

-:

00:25:25

I'll just remember you that way.

-:

00:25:27

But again, that's obviously humour based, but the point here is through

-:

00:25:33

conversations like yours, the book that you've put out conversations like

-:

00:25:37

matresence and the work that we're doing around matresence, I see this

-:

00:25:41

thread of all we are doing is shining a light on all the ways that we've

-:

00:25:46

been judging ourselves and feeling bad about ourselves and realising

-:

00:25:49

every single one of us feel the same.

-:

00:25:52

It's not our fault and let's stop.

-:

00:25:55

Let's just not allow it to happen anymore to ourselves as best we can.

-:

00:25:59

Yes.

-:

00:26:00

But it's just a relief, isn't it?

-:

00:26:02

To find out that you're not alone in these thoughts.

-:

00:26:05

And to find out that this is, I mean, I, I say normal, but it's normal, but

-:

00:26:13

it's cultural, it's cultural, normal.

-:

00:26:16

And I think that's one of the biggest aims I have with this

-:

00:26:19

book is to normalise the struggle.

-:

00:26:23

It's not to normalise feeling great about your body or whatever.

-:

00:26:27

It's to normalise that we struggle with it so that we can feel a bit of relief.

-:

00:26:32

This struggle is normal in this culture that is obsessed with beauty and only

-:

00:26:38

shows that representation and wants to sell to you every minute that you're

-:

00:26:43

awake to make you feel shit about yourself so that you'll buy basically.

-:

00:26:51

And finally, before you go.

-:

00:26:53

What do we do with the next generation then?

-:

00:26:56

I mean, I'm sure everyone who listens to this podcast is, is like me.

-:

00:27:01

So consciously trying to show my children, these things that

-:

00:27:06

I probably drive them crazy.

-:

00:27:09

Um, you know, there's a lot of ironic, like we know Mum, we know, okay.

-:

00:27:13

But I mean, I think beyond continually lifting the veil for

-:

00:27:19

them and showing that, can you see how that's making you feel?

-:

00:27:22

Can you see how that's been portrayed?

-:

00:27:24

Is there anything else that we could be doing?

-:

00:27:27

Well, I think all of that is

-:

00:27:30

brilliant and I think, um, it's very hard to escape as well.

-:

00:27:35

Even if you are like you and I we've done a lot of work over

-:

00:27:39

the years, we still feel it.

-:

00:27:41

But also, we're kind of aware of the messages we're giving our kids.

-:

00:27:46

But their world is much bigger than just the influence of us.

-:

00:27:49

So, we have to accept that they are going to probably struggle with this, especially

-:

00:27:54

during that, that delicate pubescent adolescent, um, coming into adulthood.

-:

00:28:02

I think there's, there's a, in my book, I, I talk about how to respond to a

-:

00:28:08

friend when they are saying, oh, I feel so ugly, oh, my tummy is too big, you know.

-:

00:28:14

Because I think our knee jerk response, and I am totally guilty of

-:

00:28:19

this, is to say no, you're beautiful.

-:

00:28:22

Which is nice because we don't want our friend to be in pain or discomfort.

-:

00:28:28

But actually what it does is it dismisses the struggle and it

-:

00:28:34

makes us feel stupid for feeling it, it nearly shames our struggle.

-:

00:28:41

And so I suggest that instead of that we connect with them, in the struggle

-:

00:28:47

and we say something like, oh, I get it.

-:

00:28:49

It's the beauty load, it's really hard.

-:

00:28:52

I have those days too, and we could follow up with, I, I don't really see

-:

00:28:56

what you're struggling with, you look amazing to me, but I totally get it.

-:

00:29:00

Rather than dismissing.

-:

00:29:02

But I think the same is true for our kids, right?

-:

00:29:05

Instead of, don't worry about it, don't be silly,

-:

00:29:10

it's all cultural, it's all consumerus, they're trying to make you buy stuff.

-:

00:29:15

Instead of that, to be saying I get it.

-:

00:29:19

Oh my gosh.

-:

00:29:20

Especially when I was at school, I really struggled to open up that conversation.

-:

00:29:26

Share your own moments of the shit storm, those insecure moments that you had.

-:

00:29:36

Those embarrassing moments and normalise that it's, it is really normal to feel

-:

00:29:47

really judgemental and critical of your own physical form, physical body.

-:

00:29:54

Yeah.

-:

00:29:56

Nicole.

-:

00:29:56

You've totally just changed the way I'm going to respond to both my kids when

-:

00:30:01

they point out if they're not feeling good, but my girlfriends, my sister,

-:

00:30:04

my Mum, I that because you're right.

-:

00:30:07

We're just saying no, no, don't be silly.

-:

00:30:08

You look beautiful.

-:

00:30:10

We are dismissing

-:

00:30:12

and and that, that doesn't heal either.

-:

00:30:14

It just makes us stay quiet longer.

-:

00:30:17

So, wow.

-:

00:30:19

What a beautiful tool to take.

-:

00:30:22

Yeah.

-:

00:30:23

Oh, good.

-:

00:30:23

Thank you so much.

-:

00:30:25

Been an absolute pleasure, Amy.

-:

00:30:27

Thank you.

-:

00:30:29

I love this conversation.

-:

00:30:31

I love how important it is and how you're framing it for all of us to understand.

-:

00:30:37

So I'll put all of the details of your book and the work

-:

00:30:40

in the show notes, but yeah.

-:

00:30:42

Thank you for this.

-:

00:30:43

All of it.

-:

00:30:45

Thanks, Amy.

-:

00:30:46

It's so exciting to know that these are the conversations that have been had

-:

00:30:51

perhaps in small spaces like this, but I hope more and more in bigger spaces.

-:

00:30:56

So our daughters and sons really recognise what this is.

-:

00:31:01

This cultural story of one way to look, one way to behave, one

-:

00:31:06

way to be and how to break it.

-:

00:31:09

You can read all about the beauty load in Nicole's first book, which is out now.

-:

00:31:14

All the details are in the show notes.

-:

00:31:17

Please let us know on Instagram, what you thought of this conversation and share

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