Have you ever found yourself sticking to a decision solely because of the time, energy, or money you've invested in it?

Janine Esbrand expertly discusses the dangers of the “sunk cost fallacy” and how it can hinder our progress at work. She reminds us that it's essential to choose what we do each day based on the present moment, rather than being tethered to past investments. So go ahead and give yourself permission to pivot when necessary!

Janine also offers invaluable advice for lawyers (and professionals from all walks of life) on leveraging transferable skills and transforming everyday language into professional communication. From turning down work gracefully to streamlining email communication, she walks us through practical strategies that can make a real impact on our professional reputation.

Janine stressed the importance of mindful time management and measuring productivity based on completed priority tasks rather than mere busyness. Discover your energy peaks and dips throughout the day, and use that self-awareness to optimise your work schedule and align it with your priorities.

The main points throughout this podcast include:

- the importance of recognising your transferable skills

- a smarter, better approach to time management

- using a 90-day plan to set strategic career goals and check for alignment

- prioritising personal and professional growth

- saying “no” effectively to things not on your priority list

- tips for overcoming imposter syndrome

Connect with Janine

Website: https://careerchangemakers.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/janineesbrand

Instagram: https://instagram.com/careerchangemakers

Do you have any feedback or thoughts on this discussion? If so, please connect with Aoife via the links below and let her know. Aoife would love to hear from you!

Connect with Happier at Work host Aoife O’Brien:

Website: https://happieratwork.ie

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aoifemobrien/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/HappierAtWorkHQ

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/happieratwork.ie/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/happieratwork.ie

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm0FKS19I5qSlFFmkx1YGqA

Janine, you're welcome to this LinkedIn Live. I'm so excited for this conversation. I know we've been talking about this for, I don't know, a month or two, and we had a brilliant conversation on your LinkedIn a couple of weeks ago. And so we're recording this today with a view to turning it into one of the hacker at work podcast episodes. This is something a little bit new for me, so I'm quite excited to do it. Do you wanna introduce yourself? Let let people know a little bit about your background, and, we can take that as a jumping off point of what we're gonna talk about today.

Yeah. Absolutely. So, thank you for having me, Aoife. I'm really excited to have this conversation. My name is Janine Esperand. I am a career strategist and an executive coach. I'm also a, keynote speaker and a former lawyer. And so I started out my career as a corporate lawyer, Transitioned into being an in house commercial lawyer and then, started my coaching practice on the side, had a portfolio career for a good number of years.

And then in 2021, went full time in my coaching and consulting business.

Brilliant. I'm intrigued by the fact that you were previously a lawyer. Now do you wanna kinda tell us a little bit about what that was like?

Yeah. I mean, I decided When I was really young, I wanted to be a lawyer. I think maybe about 8, 9 years old, I remember having conversation with my mom and her just, In frustration, actually, just saying, you should be a lawyer because I had an answer for everything. And so that really sparked the initial idea. And then I remember growing up watching programs like Ally McBeal, law and order. I know. I'm just thinking, oh, that looks like an awesome career. I wanna be a lawyer and, just decided to follow the path.

And it wasn't until I actually started practicing that I was like, this isn't quite how it looked on the shows. Yeah. I know.

It's okay. Yeah.

Yeah. So the practice of law, there were parts of it that I really enjoyed. There's parts of it that's really challenging, like the long hours, going through lots and lots of documents, having to do a lot of reading. And so, yeah, it was it was good. I mean, I practiced law for 10 years, and I did it in very different ways. So I worked As a lawyer in private practice, I also worked in house for a few different companies, and I worked as a consultant lawyer. So I had the experience of practicing law in different ways, and each have their benefits and their down their their downfalls or or their pitfalls. But, yeah, I think it is it's It's a great profession.

It's, there's a lot of skills that you develop and that are required in order for you to operate as a lawyer that set you up for in so many different ways in the future. And so, yeah, I I I did it for a season in my in my, professional career, and I still use some of now in my, role as a coach and a speaker and, all that I do now.

Brilliant. And how did you find the transition then going from working in corporate, let's say, to running your own

business. Yeah. So I think because I did it in stages, It wasn't as as, how can I say? For some people, it might be like, oh my goodness. That's a massive transition. But, actually, I built a bridge. I, was practicing on the side while still, in my day job. And so I built up the business and understood what was required of me while I still had the safety net of my, my role as a lawyer. And so when I then went full time, it didn't feel as big of a jump.

Although There is something that happens when you make transitions around your identity because particularly if you're in a professional services background and you've worked Hard to get to where you are, meaning you've invested a lot of years and a lot of money and a lot of resources to get there. Your role becomes tied up with your identity. Yes. 100%. I'm no longer going to do that. There's a mindset shift that has to happen In order for you to say, actually, I'm no longer identifying by this title, and I'm gonna do this thing over here. So I I did have do some work around that where I was just like, oh, if I'm no longer a lawyer, am I am I saying I'm a coach? And am I saying

am I?

Who am I? I'm all I've got trophy hat. Am I a speaker? And then I was like, I can do all those things. I can do all

those things.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There was definitely a transition where I was like, oh, so I'm not a lawyer anymore. And it was like, I'm a different person. Whoever. Yeah. And so I think that happens for a lot of people who, go through career transitions.

You realize how much your identity is tied up with the work that you do rather than focusing on who you are as a

person. Yeah. I love that. And maybe we'll drill into it in a little bit more detail. I just wanted to share something from my own personal experience. I've just finished listening to Marie Forleo. Everything is figureoutable on audio, and The way she describes herself is a multi passionate entrepreneur. I really like that title.

It because it allows you to be interested in multiple Different things, but bring your skills to those things and bring your strengths to those different areas without limiting yourself. But you're so right. I think so much of the time, Our entire identity is wrapped up in the work that we do or in ourselves. So do you wanna talk us through that kind of that journey, that mindset journey that people have to make?

Yeah. I think what has to happen is there has to be that separation and you recognizing that there's a difference between the work that you do and who you are. And so often, if if someone new comes along and you introduce yourself to them or they say, tell me about yourself, the first thing that we do is talk about the work that we do. It's like, tell me about yourself. Well, I'm a lawyer. I'm a coach. I'm an accountant. I'm a this.

It's like, okay. Yeah. That's a role that you do, but tell me about you as an individual. So I had to kinda just peel back the layers and and recognize that there there are skills that I have acquired. There are strengths that I have. There are interests that I have. And there's a thread in terms of how I can use them in my life in different ways, but my title doesn't define who I am. And so when I when I Kind of had that thought process and was really thinking about, what am I even trying to do when it comes to the work that I do? I'm trying to make an impact, And I'm choosing to make an impact in a different way, and that doesn't reflect me as an individual, the value that I can bring.

It helps me to see that this is just a title. And I can pick it up, and I can put it down. Like, I don't have to modify it.

I love that approach. And I think, Oftentimes, we get so narrow in what we're thinking. But if you think in the broader spectrum, and maybe we'll touch on this later, The broader spectrum of the impact that you want to have, whether that's through the work that you're doing currently or whether that's over your entire career. But thinking about what's the impact that have in the world. Who are the people that you wanna help, or who are the people you wanna serve? Mhmm. And how like, what kinda brings you joy in doing that? Like, what For me, I always think of, like, what problem is it that I wanna solve in the world? Like, that's kind of I'm a problem solver at heart, and that's that's what really lights me up is How can I help people to to solve those problems? But I'd love to know, Janine, what is the what's, what's the biggest Mistake that you see when people are managing their careers or making any sort of career

transition. Yeah. So just to follow on from that point 2, there's the thing about seasons. I think sometimes people make decisions, and it's like, this is who I am. Recognize that There can be seasons. And what you've done in 1 season, it just because it comes to an end doesn't mean you don't get to leverage some of that in your next season. And I think sometimes people, when they're thinking about their careers, they are reluctant to let go of decisions that they made 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago. And so it's like, well, I decided that I was gonna go on this path, and so I'm I've committed to it, so I've gotta keep going.

And I think that There isn't an appreciation for the fact that you as an individual are always changing, and the version of you at age 30 or 40 is not the same version of you as at age 20. And so it's okay, to to make different decisions and giving people the permission to make different decisions. And the other thing that comes up for people is is is is this, sunken cost fallacy, which is essentially where you feel like I've invested so much Time and energy going down this path, so I have to keep going. Because if I don't keep going, I've wasted all of that. Yep. And and I think there's a reframe to be had about what does it mean to waste Yeah. All of that. Because, actually, nothing is wasted.

You are who you are today because of your past experiences. And so it's okay to draw a line under it and say, I'm ready for either a change or I'm ready to accelerate. I'm ready in a different direction. It's okay. So I think that's a mistake. It's it's being tied to what you've done in the past too tightly.

It's so funny you say that because as you were talking about that first area around the decisions, and and we've made this decision, and that should be the same decision that I'm making when I'm 40 as it was when I'm 20 because we've invested all this time. Like, for me, the what I wrote down was that's like the that sunk cost fallacy. That's exactly what I wrote down. We've invested so much time and energy and money doing one thing, and we believe that we should Stick to that. But, actually, you know, what I'm learning more and more is you need to wake up every day and choose what it is that you want to do. And would you choose today what it is that you're doing, or would you choose something else? And if you would choose something else, how do you make that happen? So maybe we can talk about something you alluded to at the start, which is this idea of transferable skills. So you've built up all of these skills being a lawyer. Yeah.

How did you take those and apply

those? Yeah. So I think, Initially, I was led by led into coaching because of my, desire to really help people on a personal level. I was working as a corporate lawyer. And so whilst you're helping people to close transactions, to make mergers or acquisitions, It it wasn't the same level of impact as I wanted to to to feel when I was helping people on more of a personal level and knowing that the work that I did really impacted them. And so I was led by the interest that I had and the desire that I had to make impact, and coaching ticked the box in terms of giving me the opportunity to do that. And then once I got into coaching and got my coaching certification and started practicing, you know, coaching on people and then over time developed my practice and built Clients, what I realized was that the that there was a thread in terms of the skill set that I had that I was able to use as a lawyer That then helps me in my coaching business. So one of those things is being a people person and being able to build rapport with people really quickly. I use that As a lawyer as a corporate lawyer, it was really helpful because I could liaise with people in different departments to make sure that we got the things done that we needed to get done.

As a coach, I need to be able to do that so that I can build rapport with my clients, and build trust quickly, the same as when I'm speaking on stages. And then the other thing is having a strategic mind and being able to connect the dots and ask really good questions. Like, as a lawyer, when I was advising Client, if you don't ask the right questions, you might start solving for the wrong problem. And so client will come to you and say, I need you to write this contract for me. And it's like, if you just jump in and you're like, okay. Great. Let's do it. Mhmm.

You might not realize that that's not actually what they need. That's what they think they need. That's not what they need. So we were trained to ask questions before you take action. And it's the same in coaching now where a client will come and say, okay. I have an issue with this. I I wanna get a promotion, And my organization just isn't promoting me, okay, on the surface. That's what it looks like.

You start asking questions, and then you realize that, Before we get to that, there's some things that we need to deal with. And so there's there's so many synergies that initially I didn't even see, And it wasn't until I got into it that I realized, oh, I use that over here, and I use that here. And, actually, I was just, and I should use that here. And so I think what often happens is surface level. People look at their role, their title, look at a new role and a title, and they can't see the connections. And so they assume that it's very, very different, And so they're gonna have to start all over again and train themselves up. But, actually, when you dig into what skills are required, What do you need to actually do to get results in the role? You are likely to find that there are synergies between where you're trying to go and what you've done in the past.

Yeah. It's so true. And interestingly, since I started this journey myself and I, again, I have that background agency side getting requests from clients saying, can you produce this? You know? And asking for some very specific analyses without necessarily sharing what The end goal was that they're trying to get to. And so that was a big challenge that we had was questioning, you know, and probing and seeing what is it that you're trying to get to. I never made that connection until now with what I do with clients, you know, just by asking questions and even on on the podcast as well, and something that, again, became so ingrained in me in how to do it. So there was that side of it, but then there was also the connecting the dots and the making correlations between things and noticing and turning stuff into a story. So you have all of this information, but how do you put it into a story so that It it resonates with people or that you're connecting maybe things that other people see as quite separate, you're connecting them together to form a bigger picture. And that's something, you know and and academically, I used It was described to me as being able to synthesize information in a really coherent way, which I whether it's something that I'm naturally good at something I built up over time in my career.

I never realized I was good at it because it was something I just did quite easily and naturally. So I think that's something people need to be aware of that sometimes you do Something so easily and naturally. You don't realize that it's a skill that you have, but also that those skills can be used in other areas. I think oftentimes, we believe that we need to start from the bottom if we're changing industry, if we're changing careers, but that's really not the case at all.

Yeah. Maybe, I I was just gonna add that oftentimes when you look, you can see threads. So when you look at Your past experiences and what it is that you've done in your career so far, you can you can actually see where you've made decisions or where you've shown up to use your Skills there. And I was into I was doing an interview with someone on the podcast recently, and she she, gave, an example of an exercise that you can do. And I was like, oh my gosh. This is so mind mind blowing. So she basically asked, if you think about what games Did you enjoy playing as a child, or what games do you like playing now, and what games don't you like? And when you dig into that, it's So interesting that the games that you like normally will play to your strengths and the skills that you actually use. And the ones that you don't like, You don't like them because you don't get to use that skill set.

And so sometimes when people are, like, struggling with, okay, what am I good at? Like, that is a really good decides to be like, oh, that's why I, like, articulate because I get to do all the, like, all the things that I'm gonna and that's why I didn't like imagine let me be playing with my kids because I don't. And so, yeah, I I I think it is really, interesting that there are patterns In your behavior, in your decision making, and how your skills have shown up, you've just got to find

them. Yeah. You're so right. And, like, that reminds me. Steve Jobs always talked about, like, you can't Connect the dots into the future. But you've you look in the past. That's how you connect the dots. And it's only by looking into the past that you can really see how things are interrelated, how things are connected.

Yeah. Now interestingly, when I was still in my corporate career, they had an external speaker come in and talk about I think she was kinda talking about inner child stuff. I'm like, What did you like to do? Play like, what did you like to play at when you were a kid? And ever since then, I was like, oh my god. I love doing jigsaw puzzles. That's what I loved to do. Mhmm. And not everyone maybe loves doing that. I I absolutely love it.

Could sit there doing a jigsaw for hours. I love to watch Murder, She Wrote. I love playing kinda strategy type of games. Right. And maybe a mix of look and strategy like monopoly, which is a little bit of a mix of both. But, you know, I love playing settlers of Catan, which maybe not a lot of people I think it's quite a kind of a cult following, quite a a niche thing, but it's it centers on strategy and making decisions around, You know, it's it's kind of a it's sort of a mix of look and strategy, but I love all of that

stuff.

So the puzzle piece is kind of putting the pieces together to to solve problems, essentially. I absolutely love doing that. Right. But it's so interesting. And so I can see then how, again, what I really enjoyed when I was younger, like, Marie Sheerot, is, like, the solving and understanding. And even now, I I still love. That's that's, you know, that's not pretend. But I love things like air crash investigations because they go through this process of and we looked at this and we looked at that, and they they turn everything then into a and this is how we solved that problem.

And, you know, it's obviously scary if I'm flying the next day or something like that. And I have someone Where was it, sweetie? Mistakenly. Don't watch it before you fly. No joke to everyone. But what I found was that just, I suppose, just the the process of of going through that and and getting and and it makes me feel safer in the air knowing that this has happened and this investigation has been done, that, you know, it's that same thing is not gonna be repeated again, essentially, because they've learned from that experience, and they've taken that, and they've and they've put it in. So it's all of those Things that I'm really interested in. It's the solving problems. It's the learning from that experience, and it's the applying knowledge from other areas into Kind of newer areas.

So it's spreading that knowledge so that other people don't don't make the same mistakes, essentially.

Yeah. Yeah. So there's a thread, and it's so so interesting that You can find it. So sometimes when people are starting and they're like, oh, I don't even know where to start, it's like, okay. Let's actually look at your interest. Like, what do you actually like doing? Yeah. I can give you some clues as to where you wanna place yourself

next. This is it. This is it. Any other Challenges that you see people facing when it comes to, I suppose, career management generally, maybe not changing their careers, but just managing their careers.

Yeah. I just think people don't take ownership of it. Yeah. People are very passive when it comes to Their career progression and advancement and assume that the company is gonna do it. And their organization, You know, if I work hard enough, if I put in the time and the hours, they will promote me, or they will, give me that bonus, or they will push me forward, when actually it isn't just about putting in the hours. It's about how you're using those hours and Yeah. What kind of impact you're making. Yes.

So I think People struggle and get very disgruntled and very disheartened when they are finding that they're overlooked for opportunities or they feel undervalued. And whilst, yes, there's some organizations that aren't doing what they need to do, I don't think that the onus is all on the organization. I think that the individual needs to say, okay. Here's what I know to be true about what the organization's trying to do and where they're trying to go, but, also, Here's what I'm trying to do. And, like, let's see where there's synergies and where there's alignment with that. And, also, I'll be vocal about what it is I want, What I'm moving towards and look for opportunities within the organization and within my role that are gonna allow me to hit some of the markers that I wanna hit. And I think when you can shift from that passive way of thinking to the active way of thinking and say, actually, here's where I wanna get to, I'm gonna create opportunities for myself so that I can move forward. Things shift in how quickly you're able to accelerate your career.

Yeah. You're so right. I was one of those people who you're kinda waiting around going, well, someday, the organization Or my manager or the leader is gonna notice that I'm doing all of this work. But you're so right. Like, taking personal responsibility for your career, not just in the context of, you know, your your bigger career, but what you're actually doing on a day to day basis. I love that you use the word impact as well. So it's We get so stuck in in busy mode where you're you're responding to what other people want, and you're saying yes. Maybe you're afraid to say no.

You're a people pleaser. And, again, no judgment here because that's That's kind of who I was, and I'm a recovering people pleaser, let's say, trying to work on that. But, you know, saying yes to things, but being busy on the wrong things. So thinking about the impact that you're having, how does that relate to what the organization or the team or the department is trying to achieve. And and can you make a direct link between what you're working on on a day to day basis? So what are the tasks that you have on your list? And working to those and and explicitly sharing that. And and on previous, podcast guest, Paula Sheridan, she spoke about how oftentimes like, she helps women in pharma and how oftentimes it's women who They just kinda get on with it, and they see the the work that they have in solving problems and anticipating any issues and challenges that might come up. They see that as a day to day role, and they don't shout about the fact that they're doing that. So, you know, it's it's knowing how you're Porting the organization to avoid challenges as well as everything else and telling people what you're doing.

Like, I anticipated this or I included this person in this email because they were mister office and they're a critical person that needs to be involved. You know? So there's all of these things that we do that we don't realize. And I suppose the 2nd part of that is then when people come to you asking you to do stuff and it's not aligned with what you are trying to achieve in your career or what the organization is trying achieve finding positive ways to say no or to turn it down, you know, and and really focusing on what is the impact here. Or am I just doing someone else's job for them essentially that they don't want to do themselves? Now, obviously, it depends on your level of autonomy in the role and much control do you have over what it is that you do on a day to day basis? Are you essentially getting work from your boss? And in that case, then it's A case of getting them to to help you to reprioritize what's going on. And then on the other side, if you do have more control than, like, Actually, having the the the will and the power to say no. I can't take that on and showing people what you have on or showing how It's not related. And, you know, I I saw something. I'm not a massive TikTok user, but I occasionally would click in, and I share some clips from the Cast on to TikTok, as well.

And I saw something that that kind of took everyday language, sometimes wary, so I'm not gonna repeat what was said, but everyday language and turned it into like, this is the professional language that you can use to turn down work or to tell people you have too much on your plate or to, Ask them to stop emailing you 10 times a day, like, to consolidate their emails into 1 question or 1 document in an email so that it doesn't get missed and things like that. But there's that side. And then I saw another one that was if a request is coming in in let's say an interdepartmental request is coming in that, the requirement is that they fill out a document. And the document will have things like how long it will take, and it will have things like how does this relate to the strategy so that you're not just well, the person, I suppose, has to think about those things, and they may not be bothered to fill out the form in the 1st place. But if they do, we really have to give Vacation as to why why the work needs to be done,

essentially. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I think there's a big thing there around, Like, your boundaries and your preferences as an individual working within the workplace. I think often people just assume, well, because I'm in this role, whatever I want whatever is asked of me, I must do, and even how it's asked of me. So someone's gonna come into my office at 4:30 and give me and asked me to get it done by 5:30 when I was planning to leave at 5. But because I don't wanna be seen to not be a team player, I will stay and cancel my plans and get this done.

Even if that thing isn't necessarily a priority, sometimes people aren't asking the question to know if it's a priority, and they they get upset that they're still in the office. But it's like, But you can you can have boundaries, and you can say, great. If you do want me to work on something, I'm gonna need more than half an hour notice. It's okay to say things like that. So I think that there's something around you. When you when you understand what the priority is for the organization and for your department, and you're making decisions that are aligned with those priorities, it's a lot easier to exercise your boundaries around work that isn't falling in line with that. Yeah. I do think that often, what I've seen with my clients is people are so busy, So much to do.

So in the words of their day to day that they aren't actually thinking at the strategic level. They aren't actually paying attention to what is going on, You know, from from the top down, to even know what is driving our decision making as a team, as an organization, to know what the priorities are. They've just had their task, and they're getting on with it. And so I think there's 2 reasons why you wanna be paying more attention to what's going on and why. 1 is so that you can prioritize better. But 2 is if you have aspirations to be making it you know, moving up the ladder or making it to the C suite or, you know, being a senior leader within your organization, you're gonna have to be thinking at that level. So start early, getting used to Making the kind of, decisions or following the thought process that those who are senior to you would be doing. Yeah.

And you can't do that if you're just busy busy busy busy doing something you can't be doing.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I suppose my my next Question following on from that was gonna be who's responsible? So I think the the managers and the leaders have a certain level of responsibility for communicating what the expectations are and what the priorities are. Yeah. But the individuals have responsibility then for prioritizing and strategic thinking, taking a step out. You're so right. And I do this myself as well in my business.

You're so busy doing the day to day stuff that you need to take a step back and see the wood for the trees and think strategically. How is this impacting? Is this the impact that I wanna have? Does this relate to the priorities that we have in the business. Or or is it just busy work? You know? And one of those big thing or 2 of those big things, one will be emails that come in. You know? Is this an unnecessary email that's coming internally? Could that have been a Slack or a phone call or a text instead? And then the other is meetings and how much time you spend in meetings feeling like we're really busy. But then at the end of the day, we're just like, we haven't got our work

Yeah. One of my mentors, she said a phrase, and I was like, okay. That's gonna stick with me. She was like, you can become a busy fool Very quickly. So just because you're busy, it doesn't mean that what you're doing is driving things forward. So you really need to be mindful about What is taking up your time? And I think that applies if you're, you know, if you're running your own business or if you're in your day to day role within corporate. It's, like, Busy, but busy doing what? And what does pro productivity actually look like? Yeah. What did you get done this week? Was it actually a priority task? Was it lots of little things? So I think it's just when going back to your earlier question, like, do people go about managing their careers? I think it is about intentionality, and taking the time to assess.

Like, is this working? Am I on the path that I wanna be on? And if I'm not, what do I need to do to change that? Like, what relationships do I need to be building within my organization? What do I need to be getting some support? Really thinking about what's lacking so that you can address it.

Yeah. I love that idea. Like, what's lacking? I've made a note of that quote as well. Am I on the path I need to be on? Because it's you're so right. I've replaced the word busy. Like, I won't say I got some feedback, but but, this is more on a personal level. Excuse me. When I had some I was trying to meet up with friends.

And it was kinda like, oh, well, I'm busy this weekend and this weekend, and, You know, it's gonna take ages before we can actually meet up. And I just started getting messages like, oh, you're always busy. You're always busy. And I was like, oh, man. I didn't realize I was coming across that way. So I wanted to change that narrative. So, you know, it's not about being busy. It's about being productive.

On what are the things that I'm working on, and how can I be more productive with my time rather than just being caught in a trap of I'm always busy and I keep busy? And, like, even with clients, you know, there's a few different aspects of my business, but but one of those is around specifically on imposter syndrome. And one of the most common things that I get back from people is they don't have time to to invest in taking an imposter syndrome program or working with me on a coaching basis 1 to 1. They don't have time to do that. And for me, it's not about not having time. And I don't remember where I heard this initially, but I know, Certainly, like, there's, 1 coach in particular, Vicky Schilling, who springs to mind about talking about this all the time. Flipping that language up from I don't have Time too. That's not a priority for me right now. And it really changes how you think about things.

Like, if you say instead of I don't have time to do that, That's not a priority. It helps you to define what are your actual priorities. And if that's not a priority, then what is? So, you know, there's a few tweaks I think that people can make when they're when they're using that language around being, I'm really busy all the time. Like, how can you be more productive With that time, hey. Can you take a step back and be more strategic? But, also, when you say I don't have time to do stuff, it's like, okay. So it's not about not having time. It's about about not prioritizing what you want to do with that time. You know? And I don't want to be that person who says, like, we're We're all like Beyonce.

We have 24 hours in the day. I understand that people have different challenges and they have different commitments, but you still got to choose how you how you do that. So if you have if you want to spend more time with kids or partners or friends or family, then you you have the option, and you can create the boundaries to to have that. You know?

Yeah. It all comes down to choice. And I think sometimes when we use that language around, oh, I'm so busy. I'm so busy. I don't have time. It's almost like you're not in control, And someone else or something else is in control

of of your time.

Because it's like the way that we say that I'm so busy. It's like, Oh, like, I don't wanna be busy, but I am busy. Yeah. When actually, it's like, okay. Take pause. What are you wanting to Prioritize right now, and what do you need to say no to? And sometimes we struggle. We struggle to say no. But when you take the time to really think about it in this season, whether that is this week, this month, this year, what am I prioritizing, what is important, Then you're able to say, yeah.

Like, I can't I I'm choosing not to do this right now, and I know why I'm choosing not to do this right now. I I stopped using the word busy also recently. I'm like, okay. I'm not busy. My life is dynamic. There's a lot going on. But the things that are in my life right now, I'm choosing to

pursue. Yeah.

And if and if and if it isn't working anymore, then we can change it. Yeah. And so, yeah, I think it is about really assessing. How have I spent my time? Like, doing an audit, how have you spent your time in the last week? And are you happy with how you spent it? Because once you spend it, you can't get it back. Right? So

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Take the time to think about

that. Yeah. Absolutely. This is it. And, Yeah. I love that the reframe of this it's not busy. It's productive, and I'm choosing not to do this now. So we do have that choice.

And And I suppose for me as well, it's bearing in mind and this applies in the business context as well as a personal context. You not, Like, everything can't be a priority all at the same time because that's that's not prioritization. You know? And I and I did see something recently, not too long ago, that said, if you have 2 priorities, that's not really prioritization either. You have to have 1. You know? What is your one priority? What is the one thing that you're focusing on? And really make that your priority. And, you know, you you build your decisions around that, essentially.

And more gets done more gets done when you actually say, okay. Like, when I speak to my team and say, look, guys, this week, here's what we're focused on. This one thing. Like, if by the end of the week, we get nothing else done, this one thing we're gonna get done, we get it done. But when it's like, okay. We're gonna try and do this, this, this, this, this. It's like, the end of the week, it's like, maybe we half got number 1 done.

Exactly.

Quarter got number 2 done, but nothing was finished. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think it's just Looking at how we're going about approaching the most important things and also focusing on the things that are actually gonna move the needle. Because when you're thinking about prioritizing, there may be lots of things that seem important. But there's a book, The one thing. Yes. The one thing.

And the question is, like, what what one thing can I do such that if I do this one thing, it's gonna make everything else easier? Yes. And so when you're thinking about the priorities, it makes sense where you do this thing first so that the other things can happen. So Yeah. Know, like, if you think about a housework example, it's like, okay. I've gotta do I've gotta do the washing. I've gotta, look at these things. I've gotta do this. It's like, well, let me prioritize the washing because once I deal with that and put it on.

That can be running while I do something else. And so it's the same with, like, your work. It's like, okay. If there's a project I need to work or I need to delegate, Let me focus on that delegation piece first because once I delegate, it's off my hands and it's happening whilst I focus on something else.

While you're able to do something else. Yeah. Yeah. And And I had this conversation the other day. But oftentimes, if we put something off for a long time, it builds up in our head. And it could be something that takes you 15 minutes. It could be something that takes you 2 hours. But because you've built it up in your head, it becomes this big giant problem.

It's and it stays there, and it's taking up

space. Yeah.

And I think by the time you do it and you realize it only has taken 15 minutes or it only has taken 2 hours. You're like, what yeah. Why did I but it's something that you really don't want to do, and you just keep putting it off. So, there's another great book actually called Eat the Frog and, by Brian Tracy. He talks about doing the hardest thing first. And I think it's figuring out for ourselves what works best for us. So is it doing that hard thing, or is it having lots of small wins in the morning so you're feeling really productive Yeah. And ready to take on the hard thing in the afternoon? I think it It depends, and and each person will be individual and can work it out for themselves, essentially.

Yeah. But I think it's about paying attention to Your energy management and, like, when when are you most energized and when are you most focused? Because I know for me, like, I'm a night owl. So if I need to do some really deep thinking, Afternoon's probably gonna be best for me to do that than kinda do that first thing in the morning. But that's taken me observing and paying attention to my output And when have I, like, been able to get through something really quickly versus it taking ages and me just staring at the screen? So, again, it's about, you know, That intention and raising your level of self awareness. Like, do you know yourself? Do you know how you work best? Are you clear on what makes you the most productive so you can set yourself up Success. Yeah. And that's a big part of what happens when you do coaching or you like, you work with a mentor. You work with someone Yeah.

Who can help you to see yourself. And and in seeing that, you're able to say, oh, okay. Well, then if this is how I approach things best, now I know how to set myself up Success in the workplace or in my interactions with people. I know how to best set expectations, manage people Because I know myself, and I understand myself more. So I think that's a big part. Like, we don't often spend time really paying attention to who we are and how we show up.

Yeah. Yeah. Totally. And I love this. It's it's the intentionality and how we show up because sometimes the intention Behind how we're showing up is different to how we actually show up. So the action is different from the actual intention. So we want to come across as this Kind person as you know, in a certain way, but that's not necessarily reflected in our behavior. But what other people see of us is our behavior.

They don't see the intention behind our behavior. So, an important distinction there as well, I think. Janine, and we've covered so much ground today. I vastly so enjoyed this chat. Is there any kind of final tips that you would want to leave with people with that we haven't necessarily covered yet today?

Yeah. I think, I would just say it's good to have a 90 day plan. When you are working towards when you're in your day to day, it's really easy to just be going, going, going. But having a personal mind today plan is really, really helpful, and you picking, like, a 3, like, Three things that you want to achieve or 3 3 focus areas for the next 90 days. Mhmm. And then really mapping out if that's where I wanna get to in the 90 days. What needs to happen by 60 days and what needs to happen by 30 days in order for that to actually be true? And so I think when you start breaking things down, it helps you to prioritize, and it helps you to have a filter so that if other things are coming up, you can ask yourself, well, is this driving me towards my 90 day Goal. If it isn't, do I have capacity for that? And if I don't, then manage accordingly.

And if I do, then I on. Yeah. And so that's something I like to do with my clients, particularly when they are moving into, like, a new role, just starting out, stepping up, really setting out what okay. I'm here now. Where am I trying to get to? What am I trying to do? And it can improve your your impact. So, yeah, so I have a worksheet. If anyone's listening who wants it, like, send me a DM, and I can send it to you. But, yeah, I I would say get into the habit of Quarterly planning.

And then at the end of the quarter, just reviewing how far did I get with that plan, what things would I do differently next quarter. And if you do that over the course of the year, That's a lot of focused time on your goal. Yeah. And it's broken down in manageable chunks.

Yeah. But it's also A way of taking responsibility for your career, essentially, isn't it? That you're stepping up and you're not leaving it as the not the whim, But, like, you're not leaving it up to the organization to present you with these opportunities. You're actually thinking about what do I want to get from my career? What does that look like in the context of this organization, but also in the wider context of there are lots of other organizations that I could work in potentially. Janine absolutely loved this conversation. The question I ask everyone who comes on the podcast, what does being happier at work mean to you?

Oh, I love this question. I think being happy at work means Showing up in a way that allows you to fully utilize your strengths and your skills and your interest. I think it means alignment between who you are as an individual, and what is gonna be required for you in your role. If there is if there is alignment there, then you're definitely gonna be happier in the web page.

Love it. Absolutely love that. Now we're recording this live on LinkedIn. So people who are watching this video on LinkedIn can click in and connect directly with Janine because she is tagged in this post. For anyone who is not watching us live on LinkedIn that they're what they're listening to the podcast, how can people connect with you?

Yeah. So connect with me on LinkedIn, Janine s Brand, or you can head over to my website, which is career changemakers.com, and you can check out our podcast, which is the career changemaker podcast on Itunes and all the other Podcast

platforms. Brilliant. Absolutely love that. Now I haven't seen any comments pop up on the LinkedIn post just yet. But if people want to Submit comments if they want to ask anything. I'll keep an eye on the comments and see if there's anyone put anything through based on this conversation. Absolutely loved it. Thank you so much for your time today, and I'm looking forward to putting this out there in the world.

Yeah. So awesome, Aoife. Thank you so much for having me. And, yes, if people are watching the replay, and you have questions or comments, I will also circle back and give you my thoughts too. So thanks again for today.