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Building Stronger Relationships Through Mentoring with Lisa Fain | RR275
Episode 27510th September 2024 • Relationships Rule • Janice Porter
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How does someone go from being a lawyer to a top mentoring expert?

Meet Lisa Fain, CEO of the Center for Mentoring Excellence, who shares her unique journey and how she teamed up with her mom, Dr. Lois Zachary, a trailblazer in mentoring. Together, they’re changing what it means to be a mentor by focusing on cultural awareness and the power of mentoring to transform workplaces.

Ever wondered how mentoring is different from coaching or teaching? Lisa breaks it down — real mentoring is about learning together, mutual support, and building strong connections. She clears up some myths and shows how both mentors and mentees learn and grow from the experience.

We also dive into different mentoring programs and why having a clear purpose is key to making them work. Plus, Lisa gets personal, sharing how becoming an empty nester opened up new hobbies and adventures for her.

Join us to discover:

  • The impact of artificial intelligence on mentoring and the adaptability of organizations to a hybrid workforce.
  • The importance of mentoring in combating loneliness in a remote work environment.
  • How intentionality and focus in both your marriage and business is underscored, with Lisa advising listeners to "keep the main thing as the main thing.
  • The differences between mentors and coaches, noting how paid mentorship can veer into coaching territory.
  • Lisa’s books, "Bridging Difference for Better Mentoring" and "The Mentor's Guide," and their focus on inclusive conversations and practical tools for mentors and mentees.

Connect with Lisa and the Center for Mentoring Excellence


Website: https://www.centerformentoring.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/center-for-mentoring-excellence/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CenterForMentoringExcellence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lzfain/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYwzO0SPx7Si4dH91hTrGKQ/featured


In appreciation for being here, I have some gifts for you:

A LinkedIn Checklist for setting up your fully optimized Profile:

An opportunity to test drive the Follow Up system I recommend by taking the

3 Card Sampler – you won’t regret it.


AND … Don’t forget to connect with me on LinkedIn and be eligible for my

complimentary LinkedIn profile audit – I do one each month for a lucky

listener!


Connect with me:

http://JanicePorter.com

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Transcripts

Janice Porter:

Lisa, Hello everyone, and welcome to

Janice Porter:

relationships rule. I have a special guest with me as always,

Janice Porter:

and I'm excited to introduce you to Lisa Fain. Lisa is coming to

Janice Porter:

us from Washington, State of Washington area, and she is the

Janice Porter:

center. She is the CEO of the Center for mentoring excellence

Janice Porter:

and an expert in the intersection of cultural

Janice Porter:

competency and mentoring. She has a passion for diversity and

Janice Porter:

inclusion and work, which fuels her strong conviction that

Janice Porter:

leveraging differences creates a better workplace and drives

Janice Porter:

better business results. Now I'm going to start like, first of

Janice Porter:

all, welcome to the show. Lisa,

Lisa Fain:

thank you, Janice. I'm delighted to be here. Thanks

Lisa Fain:

for having me My

Janice Porter:

pleasure. So I have, I have a lot of questions.

Janice Porter:

Some of them may seem pretty basic to you, but I'm not even

Janice Porter:

going to go there yet. Where I want to start is the whole

Janice Porter:

factor that, the whole fact that my podcast is all about

Janice Porter:

relationships. I found it fascinating and very, very warm,

Janice Porter:

actually, and very, very special that your center for mentally

Janice Porter:

mentoring excellence started with your mom. It was her

Janice Porter:

vision, right? And I would love to know about that and how you a

Janice Porter:

lawyer, a mediator, how you got into this? Because to me, it's

Janice Porter:

all about the relationships and and that was a special one, I

Janice Porter:

think.

Lisa Fain:

Yeah, so she was one of the very first people to be

Lisa Fain:

thinking about mentoring in the organizational context, as a

Lisa Fain:

practitioner instead of as an academic. And so in 1992 she

Lisa Fain:

started Leadership Development Services, which became center

Lisa Fain:

for mentoring excellence. And it's interesting, because that

Lisa Fain:

is the year after I graduated from high school, which means

Lisa Fain:

that it wasn't something that it was really in my in my

Lisa Fain:

consciousness as much because I was, I was in college doing my

Lisa Fain:

own thing as she was really developing center for mentoring

Lisa Fain:

excellence. So it wasn't until I was a full blown adult with a

Lisa Fain:

family of my own that I really became aware of the impact that

Lisa Fain:

she had had on the field of mentoring. And

Janice Porter:

we must say who she is, um Lois Zachary. Was her

Janice Porter:

name, right? Was she a doctorate or doctor? Lois

Lisa Fain:

Zachary, yeah, she had gone back to get her

Lisa Fain:

doctorate when I was in middle school, and then formed the

Lisa Fain:

center right after I graduated from high school, and I actually

Lisa Fain:

ended up calling her up, because after I had I called her up

Lisa Fain:

professionally. I called her up often to talk, yeah,

Lisa Fain:

professionally. After I practiced law, I went in house

Lisa Fain:

to a legal department, and then I ended up leading Diversity

Lisa Fain:

Equity and Inclusion for that organization. And as part of

Lisa Fain:

that work, our women's group wanted a mentoring program. So I

Lisa Fain:

called her up and said, Mom, what should I do? And she said,

Lisa Fain:

Well, why don't you, you know, bring me in and I'll train your

Lisa Fain:

mentors and mentees. She said she what she had said to me is,

Lisa Fain:

you know, Lisa, the key is really making sure that the

Lisa Fain:

mentors and the mentees have the competency to be effective. And

Lisa Fain:

I hadn't really thought about that. I'd always kind of thought

Lisa Fain:

of mentoring as something that you kind of wing, you know, you

Lisa Fain:

wing it, but yeah,

Janice Porter:

talk about that. So, yes, back to that. Okay. So

Janice Porter:

she said,

Lisa Fain:

why don't you bring me in and I'll train your

Lisa Fain:

mentors and your mentees? Well, at the time, I didn't think it

Lisa Fain:

was going to be possible, because I managed a budget, and

Lisa Fain:

I felt very funny about talking to my boss about bringing in my

Lisa Fain:

mother. But it happened anyway. The stars aligned, and she she

Lisa Fain:

was up front, in the front of the room, talking about the

Lisa Fain:

power of the transformational power of mentoring relationship.

Lisa Fain:

And meanwhile, leading Dei, I had really noticed the biggest

Lisa Fain:

change in people's behaviors was not when they went to a training

Lisa Fain:

or they went to a round table. Other those things are powerful

Lisa Fain:

educational tools. The key to action is when you have a

Lisa Fain:

relationship with somebody in the workplace who's different

Lisa Fain:

from you in some meaningful way. So I was just really connected

Lisa Fain:

the dots between what she was saying and what I had been

Lisa Fain:

feeling. And we dipped our she said, you know, as we had

Lisa Fain:

conversations about it after the fact, she said, Well, maybe you

Lisa Fain:

want to come think about, you know, working with me, and I was

Lisa Fain:

a little bit trepidatious about it, so I just dipped my toe in.

Lisa Fain:

I went part time at the company I was working for and part time

Lisa Fain:

with her, and meanwhile, I had also developed coaching

Lisa Fain:

practice. And it worked out well. She was so wonderful to

Lisa Fain:

work with, very respectful of my own expertise in this dei world,

Lisa Fain:

and it really dovetailed really well with what she was doing. So

Lisa Fain:

the rest from that point is history. Janice, as I said,

Lisa Fain:

well, it to

Janice Porter:

me, it was just like, wow, because that is so

Janice Porter:

special that doesn't happen very often, and especially with what

Janice Porter:

you've just explained that you went and did your own thing, and

Janice Porter:

it brought you around to basically. Working with your

Janice Porter:

mom, and she'd never pushed you to join in her work, or never

Janice Porter:

done anything to lure you in before that. Yeah,

Lisa Fain:

for sure. In fact, you know, we were quite

Lisa Fain:

different, and I never would have thought that I would have

Lisa Fain:

worked with her, not because she wasn't wonderful. She was very

Lisa Fain:

wonderful, but she was a big picture thinker, and I tend to

Lisa Fain:

be really logical and just have different interests. And, you

Lisa Fain:

know, you talk about relationships, it was so

Lisa Fain:

redefining to our relationship, to have this professional

Lisa Fain:

relationship, this professional mentoring relationship, which is

Lisa Fain:

simply what it was, and as well as kind of the personal, you

Lisa Fain:

know, mother daughter relationship as well, it was

Lisa Fain:

really redefining and really, really special.

Janice Porter:

So how much time did you have with her in that

Janice Porter:

capacity? Capacity?

Lisa Fain:

Well, I started working with her in 2015 part

Lisa Fain:

time, full time. In 2016 she retired in 2018 at the beginning

Lisa Fain:

of 2018 when I took over as CEO. But we wrote a couple books

Lisa Fain:

together. So she passed away in the fall of 2022 So all told

Lisa Fain:

about seven years working together.

Janice Porter:

Yeah, that's very special. I'm sure she was very

Janice Porter:

proud of you, too. Thank you. Yeah. Now, okay, I have to ask

Janice Porter:

one more question. So you have children? How old are they? 20

Janice Porter:

and

Lisa Fain:

18?

Janice Porter:

So did they question? Did they ask you? Did

Janice Porter:

that put any pressure on them? Ask me about what, whether they

Janice Porter:

the working with going to work with grandma and, you know, you

Janice Porter:

know?

Lisa Fain:

No, I don't think so. I'm curious to see. It's still

Lisa Fain:

early to know where they will end up. But no, they were always

Lisa Fain:

really curious and supportive about it, but never any

Lisa Fain:

question, never really questioning it. And you know, I

Lisa Fain:

it was important to me that they recognize the impact that she

Lisa Fain:

had on the world. Yes, absolutely, which isn't

Lisa Fain:

something that I fully recognize. Even when I was

Lisa Fain:

working with her, I certainly didn't recognize it before I was

Lisa Fain:

working with her, yeah, I started to recognize it when I

Lisa Fain:

was working with her, and even more so after she passed, like,

Lisa Fain:

so that's really important for me to have shared with them. And

Lisa Fain:

I was really conscious while we were working together, of like,

Lisa Fain:

sharing what a rock star she was in that world, so that they

Lisa Fain:

could really see the impact that they had she had.

Janice Porter:

Yeah, that's really good. Okay, so I want to

Janice Porter:

go back to something I said I'll come back to, which is, you know

Janice Porter:

what my definition and thought of mentoring was all about,

Janice Porter:

because I've been asked to mentor people over the years

Janice Porter:

through just the fact that I'm older than everybody else around

Janice Porter:

there, right? Whatever I was doing and and I love and I'm a

Janice Porter:

teacher by trade, so for me, it felt like teaching but, but I

Janice Porter:

think I thought that was about winging it and bringing out what

Janice Porter:

they what they needed me to help them with, and see if, if and if

Janice Porter:

I couldn't do it, I would try and find someone who could. But

Janice Porter:

your definition, what your mom built as the the business, there

Janice Porter:

is a lot more, and it's a lot more complex, and it seems to me

Janice Porter:

that, and I want you to talk about it, because it seems to me

Janice Porter:

that it's not just the mentor, the mentee has a role as well,

Janice Porter:

and in learning. Both of them have a role in learning. So can

Janice Porter:

you give me that sort of in a nutshell of of the definition

Janice Porter:

and the the way it works?

Lisa Fain:

Yeah, for sure. So it's interesting, because

Lisa Fain:

mentoring really is, you know, like, it's, like, the most

Lisa Fain:

promiscuously used word in leadership development. You

Lisa Fain:

know, he asked people like, who's your mentor? And they'll

Lisa Fain:

say things you know, like Oprah or Maya or Gandhi or what have

Lisa Fain:

you. And there were great role models, but unless you have

Lisa Fain:

actually a reciprocal relationship with them, it's not

Lisa Fain:

really mentoring, right? I'm

Janice Porter:

still glad you said that, because, yeah, I've

Janice Porter:

heard it for years, people saying that, and it doesn't make

Janice Porter:

sense to me. It's

Lisa Fain:

just, it's the misuse of the word. So what is

Lisa Fain:

mentoring? I like to say, I think the easiest way to think

Lisa Fain:

about what is mentoring and how it's different than other other

Lisa Fain:

things, like coaching, role model, teaching, what have you,

Lisa Fain:

is that there's three characteristics to mentoring.

Lisa Fain:

There's learning, there's reciprocity and there's co

Lisa Fain:

creation. So let's get go through each of these. Learning

Lisa Fain:

is the purpose, the process and the product of mentoring.

Lisa Fain:

Learning is the purpose, the process and the product of

Lisa Fain:

mentoring, meaning that if it's not a learning relationship, it

Lisa Fain:

may just be a great relationship, but it's not

Lisa Fain:

mentoring, it can might be excellent lunches, it might be

Lisa Fain:

scintillating conversations. It might be something, you know,

Lisa Fain:

that's that's a great way to spend time and build

Lisa Fain:

relationships. But it's not learning unless, excuse me, it's

Lisa Fain:

not mentoring unless there's a learning presence. So that's the

Lisa Fain:

first thing. The second is reciprocity, and this is why

Lisa Fain:

your relationship with Oprah. Or is not mentoring unless you

Lisa Fain:

really know her well, which is entirely possible. But is is

Lisa Fain:

this idea of reciprocity, mentors give and mentors get,

Lisa Fain:

mentees give and mentees get. And people often think about

Lisa Fain:

what mentees are gaining, but the truth is that mentors gain

Lisa Fain:

as much or more from the relationship as mentees do, and

Lisa Fain:

the data really supports that they become better leaders. They

Lisa Fain:

gain more cultural competency, they have more career

Lisa Fain:

satisfaction. And this goes on and on and on and on. And

Lisa Fain:

similarly, mentees give and mentees get, right. So there's

Lisa Fain:

there is that reciprocity, that's the second thing. And the

Lisa Fain:

third thing is co creation, which is that the mentor, let's

Lisa Fain:

assume for a second a one on one mentoring relationship with one

Lisa Fain:

mentor, one mentee. It's like it's the funny math of one plus

Lisa Fain:

one equals three. In in a mentoring relationship, there's

Lisa Fain:

the mentor, there's the mentee, and then there's the mentoring

Lisa Fain:

relationship that they co create together. So they're both diving

Lisa Fain:

in and determining the the parameters of that mentoring

Lisa Fain:

relationship. So that's really unique, right? Because there's

Lisa Fain:

not very many other relationships in the work, in

Lisa Fain:

your professional lives, even in your personal life, where you

Lisa Fain:

can have that kind of co creation

Janice Porter:

in the same Yeah. Okay, so that's really

Janice Porter:

developmental learning, reciprocity and CO creating. So

Janice Porter:

those are the three parts to mentoring. So would you say,

Janice Porter:

then that that's just so different from, say, teaching,

Janice Porter:

because teaching, it's more one way.

Lisa Fain:

Well, in teaching you, you as the teacher, are

Lisa Fain:

driving the learning, right, right? Not the student, yeah,

Lisa Fain:

and it's not that as a teacher, you don't get some sense of

Lisa Fain:

self, of satisfaction and teaching. I mean, great teachers

Lisa Fain:

gain a lot from it, but the purpose of that relationship is

Lisa Fain:

not for you as a teacher to be gaining. It's the purposes for

Lisa Fain:

the student to be learning, right? And you and in most

Lisa Fain:

teaching relationships, you know, particularly, you know,

Lisa Fain:

let's think about it. Student in school, they aren't co creating

Lisa Fain:

the terms of the relationship. They're showing up, yeah. And

Lisa Fain:

their behavior may dictate the way you teach, but you as a

Lisa Fain:

teacher, are setting the rules of the

Janice Porter:

classroom. So that's teaching, and then

Janice Porter:

there's coaching, yeah?

Lisa Fain:

So that's what gets that's the, probably the most

Lisa Fain:

common question that I get is like, what's the difference

Lisa Fain:

between coaching and mentoring? And I have sort of two answers

Lisa Fain:

for that. So the first answer is, all great mentors or

Lisa Fain:

coaches. But not all great coaches are mentors. So coaching

Lisa Fain:

is a skill that great mentors use. You can be a great coach

Lisa Fain:

without using mentoring as a skill. That's that's number one.

Lisa Fain:

Number two is that the reciprocity isn't there in the

Lisa Fain:

same way. Again, it's not that coaches don't gain something

Lisa Fain:

from it, but it's not designed in the same way. Coaches also

Lisa Fain:

bring the tools mentors there. I've seen some amazing mentoring

Lisa Fain:

relationships where the mentor has zero familiarity with the

Lisa Fain:

context in which the mentee works, but really it's a

Lisa Fain:

successful mentoring relationship because they're

Lisa Fain:

learning together. They have a great level of curiosity, which

Lisa Fain:

will I know, we'll talk about it a little bit, and you know, they

Lisa Fain:

really can ask the right questions and help help the

Lisa Fain:

mentee define when they need more tools. So they're

Lisa Fain:

definitely interrelated. That's the answer number one. Answer

Lisa Fain:

number two is, we may get too hung up on what the difference

Lisa Fain:

between coaching is, because the skills are very similar, not

Lisa Fain:

identical, but the skills are very similar. So

Janice Porter:

I'm just trying to think, you know, if, if in

Janice Porter:

situations where I've been a quote mentor, whether I've

Janice Porter:

messed somebody up or not, you know, like I'm thinking, you

Janice Porter:

know, I mean, because you I know that I always learn from the the

Janice Porter:

people that I'm mentoring when I've done that, but hopefully

Janice Porter:

they do too, and and and more so. So I know that you look at

Janice Porter:

this holistically, and what does that mean to you? Because I know

Janice Porter:

it's, I think it's very important to the work that

Janice Porter:

you're doing, right?

Lisa Fain:

Yeah. I mean, look, I think you we need mentors at all

Lisa Fain:

stages of our lives. We need many mentors throughout our

Lisa Fain:

nightlife, not just this kind of one. Mentor myth is something

Lisa Fain:

that's really outdated so and mentoring is really context

Lisa Fain:

specific. So a lot of times, organizations will come to us

Lisa Fain:

and say, like, just tell me what it is we need to do in order to,

Lisa Fain:

you know, get a great mentoring program. And I say, I can't do

Lisa Fain:

that until I know more about what's the context in which

Lisa Fain:

you're operating. What are the outcomes that you're looking to

Lisa Fain:

achieve? What are some of the constraints that you're seeing

Lisa Fain:

as an organization and so forth? So mentoring, you know, you can

Lisa Fain:

have a mentor. You can have a personal mentor. You can have a

Lisa Fain:

professional mentor. You can have, you know, I'm a small

Lisa Fain:

business owner. I'm also, you know, a thought leader. Or

Lisa Fain:

whatever that means, you know, I have a mentor in that realm. I

Lisa Fain:

have a mentor in my business sense, I have a mentor, a

Lisa Fain:

personal mentor who is, you know, helps me think through

Lisa Fain:

parenting issues and all these things or did when my kids were

Lisa Fain:

younger, anyway. And so if you think about the all of the areas

Lisa Fain:

of your life, learning is critical in all of the different

Lisa Fain:

areas your life, and so it's really important to think about

Lisa Fain:

this holistically. It's so

Janice Porter:

interesting. You say I have a mentor for this and

Janice Porter:

a mentor for that. I always hear people say they have a coach for

Janice Porter:

this and a coach for that. So in your case, now do I mean this is

Janice Porter:

a business, I have a coach. Oh, okay, so you see them

Janice Porter:

differently, and mentors are they typically paid or typically

Janice Porter:

not paid? So you

Lisa Fain:

and I are operating in North America, right here in

Lisa Fain:

Canada, and I'm here in the US, and my answer is different here

Lisa Fain:

than it is in Europe. So in Europe, there is much more of a

Lisa Fain:

burgeoning industry of individual paid mentors. My

Lisa Fain:

mentors here are unpaid. They're, they come to me from

Lisa Fain:

very, you know, maybe met them at a networking event. Maybe

Lisa Fain:

they're a friend of the family. Maybe, you know, they're and

Lisa Fain:

they're, some of them are mentoring moments, you know, as

Lisa Fain:

opposed to kind of like retracted mentoring

Lisa Fain:

relationships. But so typically in the States and in Canada,

Lisa Fain:

what we're talking about when we talk about mentors are unpaid,

Lisa Fain:

although there are some people who you know are paid for their

Lisa Fain:

mentorship, I would argue, in those instances,

Janice Porter:

it changes the relationship, doesn't it changes

Lisa Fain:

the relationship. And it's not that it's a bad thing.

Lisa Fain:

It's just that the way it's done is not really traditional

Lisa Fain:

mentoring, and the way that I tend to think about mentoring,

Janice Porter:

yeah, right. So yeah, it changes the

Janice Porter:

relationship, and tends to be more of that coaching, I would

Janice Porter:

think relationship instead, yeah,

Lisa Fain:

it often veers in that and that's, you know,

Lisa Fain:

that's where it's like, okay, is it a distinction without a

Lisa Fain:

difference? I'm not sure, but I do know that it changes the

Lisa Fain:

dynamic a little bit, yeah.

Janice Porter:

So you and your mom wrote a couple of books,

Janice Porter:

bridging difference for better mentoring, bridging difference

Janice Porter:

for better mentoring, and a new version, you have a new edition

Janice Porter:

of the mentor's guide. Can you tell me about the bridging

Janice Porter:

difference for better mentoring? Is that to do with the DEI

Janice Porter:

piece?

Lisa Fain:

Yeah. I mean, it's really, you know, we wrote

Lisa Fain:

bridging differences for better mentoring, because one of the

Lisa Fain:

things that we were finding is, you know, we keep talking about

Lisa Fain:

the importance of inclusive of mentoring as a tool for

Lisa Fain:

inclusion, and the importance of having inclusive conversations.

Lisa Fain:

But people were really curious about, how, how do you, how do

Lisa Fain:

you, how do you create authentic conversations? How do you hold

Lisa Fain:

space for authentic sharing? And it really is designed to help

Lisa Fain:

mentors and mentees create that space. It's built on the same

Lisa Fain:

basic learning centered model of mentoring, which is a four stage

Lisa Fain:

model of mentoring that we talk about in the mentors guide, but

Lisa Fain:

it's really focused on differences. One of the things I

Lisa Fain:

love about that book is we came up with three composite case

Lisa Fain:

studies based on the people that we'd work with. And they, first

Lisa Fain:

of all, they were great fun to put together, but they have

Lisa Fain:

really helped kind of relate the principles that we talk about in

Lisa Fain:

the book to particular situations and and it's really

Lisa Fain:

designed to be to be applied. And then the mentors guide, you

Lisa Fain:

know, I only had the privilege of doing the third edition.

Lisa Fain:

First and Second were written by my mom, Lois Zachary, and they

Lisa Fain:

it. It really is one of the best selling mentoring books of all

Lisa Fain:

time. It's out there all over the world. It's been translated

Lisa Fain:

into several different languages, and we hear over and

Lisa Fain:

over again that it's like a Bible for people who are

Lisa Fain:

mentors, there's lots of great tools in there. They can take

Lisa Fain:

some of the worksheets and use them in their mentoring

Lisa Fain:

relationship. So our version added dei component. It talked

Lisa Fain:

about hybrid and remote work relationships, which wasn't

Lisa Fain:

really contemplated when the second edition was written

Lisa Fain:

incorporates the global code of ethics for mentoring and a few

Lisa Fain:

other topics that weren't in the second edition, but we're really

Lisa Fain:

proud of that book.

Janice Porter:

That's great. Sounds okay, so now you work

Janice Porter:

with people all over the world. Are you setting up programs for

Janice Porter:

them in their organizations to mentor people within their

Janice Porter:

company? Do you also do like one? Do you? Are you teaching

Janice Porter:

like entrepreneurs to be mentors and things like that? Like, is

Janice Porter:

it or is it mostly corporate?

Lisa Fain:

Um, it's corporates associations, NGOs. Those

Lisa Fain:

government organizations, universities, but it happens in

Lisa Fain:

most of what we do is in the organizational context. We're

Lisa Fain:

actually, we get requests all the time to do kind of public

Lisa Fain:

train, the trainers, and we're actually working on that

Lisa Fain:

offering now, but yeah, or we are hired mostly by

Lisa Fain:

organizations who are looking to, you know, create mentoring

Lisa Fain:

initiatives so we help them kind of soup to nuts.

Janice Porter:

Awesome. Okay, so you alluded to the curiosity

Janice Porter:

question, so I'm going to throw it in right now, because if

Janice Porter:

you've read that that I it's my favorite word, and I'm always

Janice Porter:

curious to know what other people think so. Do you think

Janice Porter:

that curiosity is innate or learned? And part two would be,

Janice Porter:

what are you most curious about today?

Lisa Fain:

I love that question. I do think we have an innate

Lisa Fain:

curiosity. I mean, you think about children who are always

Lisa Fain:

asking questions. I think we're all born with a curiosity, and I

Lisa Fain:

think we are taught, probably implicitly, to stifle that

Lisa Fain:

curiosity, not be nosy. Curiosity killed the cat, right?

Lisa Fain:

All those expressions. And I also think curiosity can be

Lisa Fain:

learned. So I think I The answer is Option C, is it a and eight?

Lisa Fain:

Is it B, learned C, both of the above. You know, I think you can

Lisa Fain:

stoke your curiosity. I think you can practice asking

Lisa Fain:

questions. I think you can practice finding something you

Lisa Fain:

want to learn about more and more, and I think it's an

Lisa Fain:

essential skill. I mean, you probably just because I know how

Lisa Fain:

much you care about curiosity. You've, you know, probably seen

Lisa Fain:

the research that says it's like the biggest predictor of

Lisa Fain:

excellence in leadership is curiosity. It's just, it's

Lisa Fain:

really, really fascinating.

Janice Porter:

Well, you know what you just said? I think

Janice Porter:

that, yes, you can practice asking questions, and you can

Janice Porter:

try, if that's such a thing, to be more curious. But I think the

Janice Porter:

key that you just said, also, and I've seen it in in somebody

Janice Porter:

I know, is that they have to have some kind of passion for

Janice Porter:

it, or they're never they don't care. And that's what I see. If

Janice Porter:

someone is naturally curious, they know that it's easy for

Janice Porter:

them to ask questions about anything but the person who

Janice Porter:

isn't naturally curious, but gets to use your word stoked by

Janice Porter:

something that that lights them up, that that's a different

Janice Porter:

being, different animal, totally. And you know what

Lisa Fain:

strikes me as you're talking Janice is like, I know

Lisa Fain:

you talk a lot about relationships, right? Like the

Lisa Fain:

more you establish relationships in connection with somebody, the

Lisa Fain:

more curious you're going to be, because you care and you want to

Lisa Fain:

know, right? And it's about kind of creating the safe space like

Lisa Fain:

this. The more psychologically safe you feel, the more curious

Lisa Fain:

you can become, and the more open to somebody else's

Lisa Fain:

curiosity and receptive their curiosity you're going to be. So

Lisa Fain:

there's really this nice interplay with how important

Lisa Fain:

relationships and connections are, well, and

Janice Porter:

it was just interesting. When I was

Janice Porter:

preparing for our interview, I was I was reading the material

Janice Porter:

that I had, and I was looking at your website, and I was

Janice Porter:

listening to you on podcast, but what kept coming to me first was

Janice Porter:

the relationship with your mom, because that's just, that's my

Janice Porter:

curiosity, and that's where I had to start. It's just, I don't

Janice Porter:

care if it's not about your business, but that to me, I

Janice Porter:

mean, it was in your case, but that's just where I go, because

Janice Porter:

I can't help myself. So okay, so what are you most curious about

Janice Porter:

today? Um,

Lisa Fain:

oh my gosh, I have so many things that I'm curious

Lisa Fain:

about is I am, in about a month and a half, I'm going to be an

Lisa Fain:

empty nester, and so I'm curious about all sorts of new hobbies,

Lisa Fain:

like I What's it going to be for me? I'm not, I'm still just, I'm

Lisa Fain:

still curious about that, but maybe I'll join a master's

Lisa Fain:

rowing team. Maybe Maybe I'll brush up on my Spanish. You

Lisa Fain:

know, curious

Janice Porter:

to that is, do you really is your is your child

Janice Porter:

that's going away to school, I'm assuming, going away, away

Lisa Fain:

away, 3000 miles away.

Janice Porter:

Oh, where are they going?

Lisa Fain:

Actually, 2000 miles away to University of Wisconsin

Lisa Fain:

at Madison, Seattle, Washington. So,

Janice Porter:

okay, so, so you will have more time.

Lisa Fain:

I will have more time. Yeah, and, right, you

Janice Porter:

still have one at home. She's my youngest.

Lisa Fain:

I have an older one who's already in Washington, DC.

Lisa Fain:

Oh, got it. And then my youngest is going away to University of

Lisa Fain:

Wisconsin really so we'll have a lot of, you know, yeah, thank

Lisa Fain:

you. And you know, I, I'm also really curious about what you

Lisa Fain:

know, it's something we've been spending a lot of time thinking

Lisa Fain:

about at Center for mentoring excellence is, you know, what is

Lisa Fain:

i. First of all, what's AI going to mean in terms of mentoring?

Lisa Fain:

Really curious about the impact of artificial intelligence, and

Lisa Fain:

I'm also really curious about, how are organizations going to

Lisa Fain:

accept this reality that we're in a hybrid workforce, and use

Lisa Fain:

mentoring as a tool for that, like right now, you know,

Lisa Fain:

there's all sorts of return to Office mandates and things like

Lisa Fain:

that, and I think that they're going to be relatively short

Lisa Fain:

lived. So how are organizations going to change their leadership

Lisa Fain:

behavior to embrace this hybrid workforce? And are they open to

Lisa Fain:

using mentoring as a tool to do that? I don't know. Yeah,

Janice Porter:

that's interesting. Like, first of all,

Janice Porter:

are they open to it would make me think it depends on the

Janice Porter:

actual organization, whether they're forward thinking with

Janice Porter:

everything else or not, right? And and also the that probably

Janice Porter:

feeds into the age level of the management, you

Lisa Fain:

know? Yeah, sure, for sure, it's, you know, I honestly

Lisa Fain:

think that the requirement to come back to work of certain

Lisa Fain:

amount of time is a shortcut to, you know, our tradition, the way

Lisa Fain:

that we, we at the who we, who are, who we, who are, of the age

Lisa Fain:

of leaders, of leadership and organizations, learned how to

Lisa Fain:

lead in person. And I think you can learn to lead in a hybrid

Lisa Fain:

work environment, but it requires new skills. It requires

Lisa Fain:

learning how to embrace communication. It requires

Lisa Fain:

learning how to engage people authentically. It requires

Lisa Fain:

learning how to create space in a virtual world and all the

Lisa Fain:

things. And so that's an up leveling of skills that has to

Lisa Fain:

happen. And I don't know necessarily that we have to be,

Lisa Fain:

look, I love being in person. I love getting energy from people

Lisa Fain:

in the same room and not suggesting that you we replace

Lisa Fain:

that. But do we have to mandate that? I don't know.

Janice Porter:

Well, that's that makes me think of those. I'm

Janice Porter:

thinking of my daughters. I have two daughters. They both work

Janice Porter:

from home, corporations. One can handle it because she is out.

Janice Porter:

She's in sales, and she's out and about with people part of

Janice Porter:

the time, the and she's out, going to boot. The other one is

Janice Porter:

the introvert, and feel, I think it's, I don't think it's, it's

Janice Porter:

helping her move ahead and learn in because she's alone all the

Janice Porter:

time, and I just, I don't see it like she probably needs a mentor

Janice Porter:

outside of the boss that she's not real happy with, so to

Janice Porter:

speak, who's somewhere far away, But they're always on, you know,

Janice Porter:

team calls or whatever, but I think it's so different. They're

Janice Porter:

very isol. She's very isolated and and though she likes that,

Janice Porter:

in one sense, she can sort of manage her own time, I think

Janice Porter:

it's a detriment to her work.

Lisa Fain:

Yeah, yeah, experience, yeah.

Janice Porter:

So I don't know. I think, like for me, I it. I'm

Janice Porter:

not in a situation where I need to ever worry about that

Janice Porter:

anymore. I'm not, I'm I'm past it. I think there was so much to

Janice Porter:

be said for being in the group environment and watching other

Janice Porter:

people's play, and, you know how, how the different levels

Janice Porter:

worked in the company, the hierarchy, all of that stuff.

Janice Porter:

You could see it in action. You can't now, yeah,

Lisa Fain:

yeah, it's really, it's, it's really, really,

Lisa Fain:

really, really fascinating. We're just talking with a

Lisa Fain:

colleague this morning about, you know, the Surgeon General of

Lisa Fain:

the US had a report on this epidemic of loneliness, right

Lisa Fain:

that there? You know, I think it came out at the beginning of

Lisa Fain:

last year. So we're in 2024 as we'll record this in 2023 maybe

Lisa Fain:

it was 2022 a report on the epidemic of loneliness and how,

Lisa Fain:

you know, mentoring is really extra important in this epidemic

Lisa Fain:

of loneliness and and that the epidemic of loneliness is only

Lisa Fain:

heightened by virtual Yes. So how do we create that

Lisa Fain:

connection? I think mentoring is a great way to do that. I think

Lisa Fain:

up leveling leadership skills for this hybrid world. Also like

Lisa Fain:

the term hybrid really means mix, right? So, how can you

Lisa Fain:

create without mandating two days a week in the office? How

Lisa Fain:

can you create these hybrid experiences? Maybe the team gets

Lisa Fain:

together every quarter. Maybe you have open office hours where

Lisa Fain:

you can't talk about business, but you have to talk about, you

Lisa Fain:

know, what? You have a question that you put down. You know,

Janice Porter:

I saw when, when covid was rampant. I saw a

Janice Porter:

situation where one of my girls was a different job. She had a

Janice Porter:

different company, different type of flavor altogether. But

Janice Porter:

it was everyone worked from home, and they were global, all

Janice Porter:

around the world, and it was like a 24/7 operation. Depending

Janice Porter:

is like customer support all around the world, and they had,

Janice Porter:

I don't know if it was weekly or bi weekly, activity sessions on

Janice Porter:

Zoom. And it was not work related, it was fun related, and

Janice Porter:

it helped build a culture that I hadn't seen in that kind of, you

Janice Porter:

know, because everybody's separate, nobody's goes to an

Janice Porter:

office together. And it was really good. They would send

Janice Porter:

things to the house, like to my daughter's house, that to have,

Janice Porter:

like it might have been felt, pens and a book to create

Janice Porter:

something for the event. Or, you know, whatever they, they they

Janice Porter:

did. They went all out and they, I think somebody probably

Janice Porter:

created this business right for this time in the world when it

Janice Porter:

was like that. But I think those kinds of things are so important

Janice Porter:

to build that camaraderie, to build the the team, and so

Janice Porter:

different from the company my daughter's in now. It's like

Janice Porter:

night and day. There's none of that. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah.

Janice Porter:

Again, I

Lisa Fain:

mean, it's a skill, right? And you have to have the

Lisa Fain:

intentionality to

Janice Porter:

create that. Yeah? You totally do. So I think

Janice Porter:

mentoring is such a a hopeful word, like, I love that. You

Janice Porter:

know, you can help somebody by mentoring them. You can learn

Janice Porter:

from them when you're mentoring them. I love that. And I think

Janice Porter:

whether you're mentoring or coaching or teaching, though

Janice Porter:

they all have the same satisfaction that can come if

Janice Porter:

you do it well, because people appreciate it. So it is

Janice Porter:

excellence in that sense, right? Yeah, for sure. Okay, this has

Janice Porter:

been really fun, so I I want to give you the opportunity to

Janice Porter:

perhaps give my audience, sort of your best or most favorite

Janice Porter:

piece of business advice based on from your perspective. Oh,

Lisa Fain:

I know. It's great. It's a great question. So, you

Lisa Fain:

know, I think this is the same answer to the question of that I

Lisa Fain:

thought about it just in thinking about this

Lisa Fain:

conversation, which is, you know, what's your favorite

Lisa Fain:

quote, right? So, you know, I My favorite quote is a quote that

Lisa Fain:

my sister in law said the night before my wedding, at the

Lisa Fain:

rehearsal dinner. And it's great advice for marriage, and it's

Lisa Fain:

great advice for business. And the advice is that the main

Lisa Fain:

thing is to keep the main thing the main thing, you know. And

Lisa Fain:

you know, obviously in marriage, it means one thing in business,

Lisa Fain:

like, why are you doing what you're doing? What is the

Lisa Fain:

purpose? What is what drives you each day? What's the impact that

Lisa Fain:

you want to make? Keeping that focus and having intentionality

Lisa Fain:

around it will make such a difference, and it's really

Lisa Fain:

quite related to mentoring, right? What is it that you want

Lisa Fain:

to be learning? How is it that you want to be developing what

Lisa Fain:

is it that you want to be giving of yourself to others and really

Lisa Fain:

keeping that front and center is is the best piece of advice? I

Lisa Fain:

think that I ever got

Janice Porter:

nicely done. That's great. That's great. So

Janice Porter:

thank you for being here. Thank you for your wisdom. And the the

Janice Porter:

great explanations about mentoring and mentoring

Janice Porter:

excellence. I I feel like that's clarified it more for me as

Janice Porter:

well, because I was curious about that. I i hope that my

Janice Porter:

audience, I hope that speaking now to my audience, I hope that

Janice Porter:

you appreciate as well. And if you are interested in finding

Janice Porter:

out more about mentoring, I will put the link on the website to

Janice Porter:

the Center for mentoring excellence. There's some good

Janice Porter:

information on there from Lisa and her team, and remember to

Janice Porter:

stay connected and be remembered. You.

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