Tree syrups. Did you know there are many more than just maple syrup? We love them because they're versatile and tasty. So we're doing a taste-test of tree syrups.

We're Bruce Weinstein & Mark Scarbrough, authors of three dozen cookbooks and countless published recipes. We've written about syrups for the old GOURMET magazine and we want to share the passion we developed in that article with you.

So let's talk tree syrups!

Here are the segments for this episode of COOKING WITH BRUCE & MARK;

[00:39] Our-minute cooking tip: add a little maple syrup to bottled salad dressings, barbecue sauces, and marinades for a flavor boost. Or stir maple syrup into softened butter.

[02:33] All about tree syrups: maple, black walnut, birch, and beech. A true treat. We'll share our tasting notes with you. If you sign up for our newsletter at cookingwithbruceandmark.com, you can find our about our favorite producers.

[18:42] What’s making us happy in food this week: whitefish salad and beef daube.

Hey, I'm Bruce Weinstein, and this is the podcast

2

Cooking with Bruce and Mark.

3

Mark: And I'm Mark Skarborough.

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And together with Bruce, we have

written 36 cookbooks, plus Bruce

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has written two knitting books, plus

I have written a memoir, so much.

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And we, in fact, have more in the works.

7

We are currently in the editorial

process of a new cookbook.

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We'll tell you about

that on down the line.

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But in this episode of our podcast

about food and cooking, we're talking

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about syrup, all things syrup,

maple syrups, and many, many more.

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We've got a one minute cooking tip

that involves, yes, you guessed it,

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syrup, and we'll tell you what's

making us happy in food this week.

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So let's get started.

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Bruce: Our one minute cooking tip.

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Use maple syrup to enhance simple things

like salad dressings and sour cream.

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Just takes a few drops, little

hint of sweetness, depth of flavor.

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Here's an idea.

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Stir a teaspoon or two into

a softened stick of butter.

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Use maple syrup and coffee

instead of white sugar.

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Swap it for a simple

syrup in cocktail recipes.

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Those are

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Mark: lots of ways to use maple syrup.

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So what kind of bottled salad dressing

would you suggest I use with maple syrup?

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Bruce: Uh, you're going to mix it into

a bottled dressing like any vinaigrette

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except balsamic because a balsamic

vinaigrette is already going to be sweet.

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Like, so avoid the balsamic,

avoid the raspberry.

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Go for, you know, an Italian

dressing, a regular vinaigrette.

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You can even put a little bit into a

creamy ranch would make it fabulous.

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Mark: Yeah.

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And again, if you want a really nice

spread for toast, as Bruce says, mix

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just a little, and we're talking a

tiny little bit, maybe two teaspoons at

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most into a softened stick of butter.

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That's a tablespoons of butter

or about 230 grams of butter.

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Uh, mix it in there and then

just leave it out on the counter.

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It's this sweetened

softened butter for toast.

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Delicious.

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Okay.

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Before we get to the next segment

all about syrups, let us say

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that we do have a newsletter.

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You can find this newsletter by

going to our website, bruceandmark.

41

com or cookingwithbruceandmark.

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com.

43

You can sign up there and then you can get

about once a month, twice a month maybe.

44

You can get various newsletters about

our topics, including one for this.

45

podcast episode about syrups.

46

We'll send you a newsletter that

includes our favorite syrup makers

47

who have not supported this podcast

and have given us nothing in return.

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Bastards.

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No, I'll just send you the links

to find our favorite syrup makers.

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So let's get to talking about tree syrups.

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Bruce: It's fall in New England.

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We have apples.

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We got pumpkins.

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We got gourds.

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We got cider donuts.

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We got mums.

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We got a lot of

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Mark: gourds.

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Bruce: And for some reason,

there's a lot of maple syrup to be

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had in the fall, isn't it weird?

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Mark: Yeah, it is weird.

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If you don't know this, people

think of maple syrup when the trees

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in New England turn red and gold.

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But in fact, sugaring, as it's called,

happens in the late winter, it's not

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even spring, in the very late autumn.

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winter.

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And although it looks like it

should happen now with apples and

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beautiful trees, in fact, it's

the exact wrong time of year.

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So here's the deal.

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If you don't know about how this works

during the summer, maple trees and only.

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Two sorts of maple

trees make syrup, right?

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The

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Bruce: sugar maple and the red maple.

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Mark: Okay, so we get these two

species, which are abundant here in New

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England, sugar maples and red maples.

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And during the summer, through

photosynthesis, they create

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sugar and that sugar travels

down the tree into the roots.

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And it's stored as carbohydrates in

the roots when the spring thaw comes.

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And we're talking really the late

winter thaw, not even the spring

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Bruce: off in the end of January

is when you start putting your

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holes and your taps into the trees.

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I

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Mark: mean, I'll tell you

that Bruce and I have lived in

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rural New England for 18 years.

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And when we first moved up

here, it was usually around the.

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the end of February when they

started tapping the trees.

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Now it's generally the end of

January, the first day of February

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when they're tapping the trees.

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So they tap the trees, they use

a pressure system to actually

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draw sap up the tree, right?

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And then out the tap.

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Sometimes you'll see the old fashioned

way with buckets hanging off trees, but

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you can also drive around the woods around

us and it looks like a brewery because

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there's a million trees connected by a

million bits of little plastic piping.

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Bruce: So people making maple syrup

now have Barrels and barrels and

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gallons and gallons of maple sap, and

there's a high sugar content, but to

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make it easier to boil it down, most

people use a reverse osmosis system

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that takes pressure in it to get the

water content out, reduces the sugar

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content, makes it easier to boil down.

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Mark: As a general rule, so just

as a general rule, the sap that is

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pulled out of the trees is stronger,

or more maple syrupy, let's just say.

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Earlier in the year, and it

gets watery as it goes on.

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So as the season extends, they

have to boil it down more and more.

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That's a general rule.

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It doesn't always work out that way.

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And where we live in our part of England,

we see them start and stop sugaring.

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So they'll start.

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Getting the sap out, and then we'll

get a really bad cold snap and

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they'll quit because the sap stops

running, and then we'll get a lot

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of rain, and they'll quit sometimes

because it's too watery, and they want

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that rain to kind of flush through.

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There's all kinds of reasons why they

start And they stop it in general.

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The early SAP is considered primo.

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And if you go to certain producers,

they're very proud of offering you the

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first week's run and that kind of stuff.

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And it's because many people

believe that there is a milder,

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mellower flavor early in the run.

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Bruce: Why would you want something

mild when you can have a good,

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lovely, strong maple flavor?

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It

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Mark: depends on what you want.

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Not everybody wants the same thing.

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Now, if you don't know, maple syrup

comes in all kinds of grades, and

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there's Canadian differences, there's U.

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S.

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differences, and even there are some

producer differences because this is

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weakly enforced, not strongly enforced.

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But you should just look

at the color of the syrup.

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In general, the darker it is, the more

molasses like and the more It's going to

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get I tend to like very dark maple syrup.

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You can get even ones that are so dark,

they're supposedly just for cooking.

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It used

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Bruce: to be called grade B.

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I'm not sure what they call those now.

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And

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Mark: there's different Canadian

labelings and US labels.

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I don't like it that far.

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But I, Always with the dark stuff

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Bruce: and in general, no matter

what color it is, the sugar content

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is going to be at about 66 percent

which is 66 bricks degrees B.

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R.

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I.

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X.

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And it will take on average 40

liters of sap to make one leader.

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Of maple syrup.

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Yeah.

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So

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Mark: thi this is how you

know it's so expensive.

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'cause you do know maple syrup is

expensive and a lot of people, I wanna

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go back to this light and dark thing

'cause I don't wanna put anybody down.

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A lot of people like the light

syrup because they like it for

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pancakes and waffles and they prefer

that light tasting syrup on it.

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I just like big flavoring.

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Yeah, we do.

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So that's my thing.

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But you may not know this but,

well, maple trees are storied

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in terms of of syrup production.

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There are a lot.

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of other trees that can be

sugared beyond maple trees.

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And in fact, there are

people who sugar these trees.

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And before Bruce launches into this,

I want to say that years ago, when

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there was still Gourmet Magazine

and it still ran around, Bruce and

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I wrote about an Alaskan birch.

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Syrup producer.

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Bruce: Yeah, these people, uh, lived

in Alaska and they had a huge, uh,

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stand of birch trees that they tapped.

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They tapped maple as well, and

they would, you know, some people

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don't like the taste of birch.

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Mark and I are actually gonna taste

it here live during this podcast.

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Um, so they, you know, Because

people sometimes think it's bitter,

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they blend it with maple, but

you could buy pure birch syrup.

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And the one we're actually going to

taste today, we got on a recent trip

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to Quebec, there was a producer there

that Eskoumiak, and they have all sorts

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of grades and beautiful maple syrups

and a very, limited supply of birch

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Mark: and a very expensive

supply of birch syrup.

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This bottle that set us back a little

bit to buy a bottle of birch syrup.

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It's really labor intensive because

birch trees, you can tell they've

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got these thin trunks, they don't

produce as much as maple trees and

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what they produce is often much more

watery than what maple trees produce

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Bruce: to get the flavor.

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of that caramelized birch sugar, you've

got to boil down a hundred to one, not

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40 to one, like you do with maple syrup.

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It's a hundred liters of

birch sap to one liter.

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And that law,

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Mark: not only do the birch trees produce

a different flavor than maple syrup,

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that long boiling also brings on more.

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caramel notes because more of the

sugars are transmogrifying as it

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boils, so it's going to take on

a more molasses quality to it.

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Maple syrup is, we think, is a

delicacy and we have long loved

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maple syrup in our house and we love

the darker flavors, as I've said,

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and we love the clean taste of it.

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So we've got some here from where?

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Bruce: That's from Hidden Springs in

Vermont, maple syrup, and I just tasted

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it and handed Mark the shot glass.

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Wow.

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And.

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The flavor is not just sweet.

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It's fruity.

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It actually has a stone

fruit quality that I like.

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These people in Hidden Springs get a

leaf rot that happens on their property.

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Yeah, it's a leaf mold rot.

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That's a mold that gets down

into the roots and it kills them.

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It gives it a spectacular flavor,

and it's mellow, and it's fruity,

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as opposed to the Burt syrup.

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Now, we do have that bottle of

Escomiak Burt syrup from Quebec,

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and I'm looking at the color, and

it actually looks like molasses.

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And

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Mark: tar.

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It looks like

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Bruce: Worcestershire sauce.

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And

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Mark: it, when Bruce is swirling the

glass around, and it's staining the

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inside of the glass a dark color.

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And I'm going to taste it.

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As he swirls it around.

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And this stuff is really, really good.

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Bruce: really a big flavor.

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Wow.

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I am getting a mouthful

of intense vanilla.

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Oh wow.

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Oh, and sour.

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There's a sour quality

that is so fabulous hour.

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Mark: And it, it is a huge flavor

that when I'm smelling and tasting

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right now, it's just the forest.

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It has this, Uh, the smell of damp forest

smell to it, but it's really sweet.

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It's super sweet, but

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Bruce: yet sour at the same time.

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Crazy, sour, almost like a sucking candy

that you had as kids that were like the

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crown royal sour cherries, sour lemons.

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They were sweet, but they made you pucker.

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I can imagine.

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A little bit of this in a margarita

to give it that sour edge, but

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also a little sweetness would

also give it a beautiful color.

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Mark: It makes, let me just say, and

again, we're not sponsored by anybody.

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So this doesn't go to anybody's

credit, but a purchaser makes a

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really interesting holiday gift.

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And if you want to try it out and give

it to someone as a holiday gift, I would

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suggest that you don't go for the pure

stuff, but you go for the stuff that's

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cut with maple syrup, because it's

going to be more mainstream tasting.

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If you go for what we just tasted, which

is the, uh, the real hundred percent Burt

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syrup, again, super damp wood smell taste

like, uh, it's got a kind of running

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river brook through mossy ledge taste.

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It's got a sour edge.

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Imagine

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Bruce: eating some sour edge.

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sour berries right off a bush in the

woods, and then you take a bite of some

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bread and it's sweet, but it's sour,

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Mark: fabulous.

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It's, it's birch syrup is,

is a, is a labor of love.

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It's super intensive to create it.

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Uh, when we spoke to these Alaskan

producers years ago for gourmet, it

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was just amazing how much work they had

to put in to create their birch syrup.

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But there are more than just birch syrup.

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There

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Bruce: is something really

special, black walnut tree syrup.

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Now you have to be careful when

you're shopping for this because

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there's a lot of bottles out

there labeled black walnut syrup.

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And all those tend to be our corn syrup

and sugar syrups with black walnuts added

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or black walnut extract added to them.

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And they're delicious, but you

have the flavor of the walnut.

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not the flavor of the tree.

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Now, there are some people

actually boiling down black

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walnut tree sap into syrup.

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Takes about 50 liters of that sap.

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Hard to find.

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If you're going to look for

it, look for it in the spring.

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Look for it in February or March.

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We were lucky enough to get some

last year that we still have.

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It's like birch syrup in its color.

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It's very dark.

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It's very viscous.

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Um, the flavors are a little different,

and I'm going to give it a try.

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Mark: It's, it's, uh, I should just tell

you, but the black walnut syrup, the,

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the nutty, earthy flavors, and it's got

really strong, think wet soil flavors.

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With butterscotch.

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With, yeah, like butterscotch in my sauce.

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But the sweet is way down on it.

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It is not.

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as sweet, by any stretch of the

imagination, as birch syrup or, of

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course, maple syrup, which is super sweet.

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Bruce: And the thing about this

is it doesn't taste like nuts.

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So you expect, well, it's black

walnut, it's black walnut trees.

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So we're getting the flavor of the

forest, not a flavor of the nuts.

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And I

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Mark: should tell you, just, just

as a point of contention or a point

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of information, that I think birch

syrup and, uh, and black walnut syrup.

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And we'll talk about one

other syrup in a minute.

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These tree syrups are

much more condiments.

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They're drizzles.

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You can drizzle them on, let's

say, roasted Brussels sprouts.

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You can drizzle them on apple

cake, but they are less.

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Uh, main thing like pancake

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Bruce: syrup.

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Don't pour them on your French toast.

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Mark: You don't want a

plate full of these things.

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They're very strong.

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The place that we found this birch

syrup in Canada, they were using it

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as part of their cocktail program.

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So they were putting a little bit of birch

syrup in bourbon drinks and that kind of

300

thing as part of their cocktail program.

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Again, that's more how it's used.

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You wouldn't want to eat tablespoons.

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Yeah, I

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Bruce: think Mark's right.

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Think about it like condiments.

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And so what's the last one?

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So

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Mark: The last one is the rarest

of them all, and it is beech syrup.

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And this one is really rare

because of two problems.

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One, the number of beech trees

that can produce this syrup.

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But two, because North America has

been hit by a beech tree blight.

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It's a root of the problem.

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Blight that has hit beach trees

and our beach trees, even here in

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New England on our property, our

beach trees are dying like crazy.

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So this one's hard because it's

hard to find because again,

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beaches are rare to sugar.

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The ones that can be sugared are

rare and two, they're dying out.

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Bruce: Yeah.

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The most likely place you'll find

beach syrup if you're looking to buy

320

it as a place like Etsy where you have

people who are pulling this stuff off

321

their own property and boiling it down.

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Mark: If I were to go to

here, if I were to take

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Bruce: Marcus tasting the beach up, it's

lighter in color than the other two.

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It's definitely lighter.

325

And it's not

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Mark: as sour.

327

Um, the the birch syrup and

especially the black walnut

328

syrup all verge away from sweet.

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Beach syrup is much more

like dried fruit like prunes.

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Think dried apricots.

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Think raisins like a

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Bruce: good Armagnac.

333

Mark: Yeah, think about it in that way.

334

It's not nearly as viscous as

the maybe even as maple syrup.

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Bruce: No, and it's not

as dark as birch either,

336

Mark: right?

337

I have this feeling and I don't know the

research to this, but I have this feeling.

338

Feeling that the sap is very watery and

this is about as good as they can get it

339

towards syrup without it burning There's

this tipping point Uh in which you can tip

340

over and get burned flavors into the syrup

and all producers watch very carefully Uh

341

against this I should tell you a little

story while we're here sitting on syrup

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about years ago I mean 20 years ago bruce

and I decided to take a long weekend away.

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We were living in new york city

And we drove way up into Quebec,

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rural Quebec, not Montreal and

not Quebec City, but rural Quebec.

345

So we're in rural Quebec at a really

nice hotel, but it's the dead of winter

346

and there's not anything to do, but

they are starting to sugar around us.

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So there's guys and they're

making syrup, right?

348

And we pull up and we asked if we can

see the evaporator and watch them work.

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And of course, they're happy to see us

because gosh, who comes by these lonely

350

icy roads in the middle of the winter, eh?

351

And so they invite us

inside, and they're boiling

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Mark (2): down this giant vat of sap

to create syrup, and they're bottling

353

it, which is all fine and good.

354

Except, here's the

funny part of the story.

355

I guess funny.

356

Um, they're cooking their lunch in

the boiling sap, which means, There

357

are hot dogs floating around in that

boiling sap, which they're eating.

358

And I thought to myself, I wonder if

people who are kosher know that Kosher?

359

What if you're

360

Bruce: vegetarian?

361

Mark (2): This syrup had hot

dogs floating around in it.

362

Bruce: Yeah, and I didn't check to see

if their bottles were labeled kosher.

363

I don't remember.

364

But Yeah, so you kind of want to be aware

of these things, that if you open a bottle

365

of maple syrup and it has sort of a smoky,

piggy flavor, you know, those guys may

366

have been cooking their lunch in it, too.

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Mark: Yeah, I know.

368

It was just, we were both so shocked.

369

I have

370

Bruce: to say, they gave

us one that was delicious.

371

Yeah, well, it was.

372

The hot

373

Mark: dog cooked in maple syrup was

delicious, but it was just really crazy.

374

I can remember standing there

staring at it, thinking, I wonder

375

if Consumers know there's a hot dog

floating around in this maple stuff.

376

And yes, all the pathogens are

going to be killed off in this

377

long, long, long, long boil.

378

And listen, all the flavors

are going to be killed off too.

379

But it's still a question of who knows

what about what's being produced.

380

You know, what can I tell you?

381

I, nobody really knows how

these things get produced.

382

Do they, without a billion

inspectors, which there are not,

383

well, that's our whole take on syrups.

384

If you're interested in more of

this, again, I can tell you to,

385

if you sign up for our newsletter.

386

We'll be sending you some

links to certain producers.

387

You can check them out yourself.

388

And also you can do a Google search and

look around on your own, but I've got some

389

favorites and I'll send them to you before

we get to the last part of our podcast.

390

Let me say that it's always

great to have you along.

391

And we thank you very much for

being a part of this journey

392

into food and cooking with us.

393

Okay.

394

Up as always at the end,

what's making us happy.

395

in Food This Week.

396

Bruce: Whitefish salad has made me

happy many times over the years, and

397

I've, I've been buying whitefish like

crazy on smoked, smoked freshwater

398

fish, and you buy it in chunks.

399

I won't buy prepared whitefish salad.

400

That is disgusting.

401

I'm going to make it myself.

402

So I buy a chunk of whitefish, peel that

golden skin off, you pull the meat off,

403

you throw it in a food processor, you

add Mayonnaise, more mayonnaise, more

404

mayonnaise, and a little sweet pickle.

405

Thereby

406

Mark: disavowing the myth that Jews

don't eat mayonnaise, but do go on.

407

Bruce: Jews just don't put

mayonnaise on a pastrami sandwich.

408

Well, that's disgusting.

409

Mark: Well.

410

Bruce: Do go on.

411

And then you were it up the

fish with the mayonnaise and

412

a little sweet pickle relish.

413

I've been eating it for days.

414

It is my favorite tree, but you have

to eat it with pickled jalapeno slices.

415

And it's the only

416

Mark: good way.

417

That's our house is we eat white fish

salad with pickled jalapeno slices.

418

It's a thing.

419

Okay.

420

What's making me happy in food

this week is buff bourguignon.

421

And it's funny I say this because

Bruce has, uh, for a long time when

422

he first met me, he was kind of this

master of Dolby, actually dubbed the

423

buff, not buff bourguignon, but okay.

424

Um, if you're going to get

technical, but he was this master

425

of this Provencal beef stew.

426

And over the years he's Um, found ways

to cheat it and cheat it and cheat it.

427

I got lazy.

428

I don't begrudge him this.

429

I get lazy.

430

But essentially in the last couple of

years, he's been making beef stew and

431

calling it Dub Duboof, which is not true.

432

So this last weekend we had, we can

guess in and I was like, can you

433

actually go back to the original

real way you make Dub Duboof?

434

And he did.

435

And it was worth All

of the possible effort.

436

It involved two bottles of wine

in the stew that were one for

437

marinating, right, and then one in

the stew, or two for marinating.

438

Which was it?

439

It

440

Bruce: was two for marinating

and they both went in.

441

Okay,

442

Mark: and then

443

Bruce: you know, you marinate

444

Mark: this with

445

Bruce: what?

446

Oh, fresh carrots and celery and

garlic and onions and thyme and sage

447

and allspice berries and peppercorns.

448

So here's the thing, you take it out

and then you brown bacon and you brown

449

the meat and you put all the vegetables

in and then halfway through cooking.

450

You take the meat out, strain those

vegetables, because now they're spent.

451

Put the meat back in with the sauce, with

sautéed mushrooms, olives, and prunes.

452

Mark: And pancetta.

453

Bruce: And pancetta, and two more hours.

454

Mark: Yeah, and it was

so rich and satisfying.

455

It was perfect, Dom Dubuff.

456

I told him he's not, uh, I'm not allowed

to call anything else dub dub dub.

457

He's free to make beef stew any time

he wants, but it's not dub dub dub.

458

This is the real thing.

459

And it made me very

happy through this week.

460

So that's the podcast.

461

Thanks for being a part,

as I said, with us.

462

Thanks for being along in this

journey, and I hope that you

463

expand your syrup repertoire.

464

Bruce: Every week we tell you what's

making us happy in Facebook page.

465

Facebook group, Cooking

with Bruce and Mark.

466

So go there and tell us what is

making you happy in food this week.

467

Cause we want to know here at

Cooking with Bruce and Mark.