Summary: In this episode of the HR Impact Show, Dr. Jim interviews Tammy Triolo, CEO of PCQ Consulting, about the importance of empathy in building high-performance teams. Tammy emphasizes that empathy is vital in achieving diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) in organizations. She highlights the need for leaders to move beyond simply checking diversity boxes and instead create a culture that supports and values diverse individuals. Tammy also discusses the difference between being nice and being kind, stressing the importance of delivering tough truths with kindness. Tammy provides valuable insights for leaders, including the importance of empathy, frankness, and regularly resetting one's perspective.

Key Takeaways:

Empathy is crucial in achieving diversity, equity, and inclusion in organizations.

Being nice is not the same as being kind; kindness requires courage and honesty.

Leaders should state their intention for pursuing DEI and be honest about what they can and cannot share with their teams.

Pay attention to disengaged employees, those who have become quiet, and the overall environment to identify potential issues.

Regularly reset your perspective and approach as a leader to better understand and support your team.

Chapters:

00:02:00 Empathy as a key factor in achieving diversity, equity, and inclusion

00:05:00 Connecting with managers and leaders through empathy and tough conversations

00:08:00 Moving from a check-the-box mentality to stating intentions for DEI

00:13:00 Being nice vs being kind, and the importance of honesty

00:20:00 Finding time for communication in a busy environment

00:24:00 Importance of paying attention to employee engagement and environment

00:27:00 Top three things leaders need to focus on: empathy, frankness, and honesty

00:33:00 Regularly resetting and adopting a new hire perspective

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These are just a few of the things that Tammy Triolo talks about when the discussion is focused on building high performance teams. And let me give you a little bit of background about Tammy. She's the CEO of PCQ Consulting, a boutique agency specializing in company culture and DEI. She's a dynamic speaker and collaborator.

She's also a podcaster. She has a masterclass. She spent most of her career in healthcare. It was in this industry where she honed her skills to create an amazing company culture for her nurses so that they could be amazing nurses for their patients.

Tammy Triolo, welcome to the show.

Tammy Triolo: Thank you, Jim. I'm happy to be here.

Dr. Jim: This is one of those sessions where we could probably go for three hours, we actually got like lives and things to do. Plus given your prolific Tik TOK presence. I think there's a lot of stuff that you have going on there, but before we dive into the big.

Chunk of the conversation. I'd like you to share with the audience, some of the things that you feel is important for them to recognize and realize about your career trajectory and your philosophy. That's going to inform this conversation.

That needs to be done and maintained. So a lot of companies just do the easy part of diversity, which is we get a lot of diverse bodies. We check all the boxes, but we don't maintain the space and the culture for those diverse bodies in those spaces. So I think I want the audience to understand how vitally important empathy is to this work.

Dr. Jim: Even in that explanation, I appreciate you sharing that there's a couple of things that stand out that I want to highlight. I've talked to you and had John Graham on the show before, and he often mentions that executives in organizations sometimes take the wrong approach when it comes to their talent strategy, and especially the diversity strategy because their automatic response.

About how you integrate empathy into a talent strategy that's centered on DEI . Tell us a little bit about how you've coached and helped other organizations embed DEI as part of their overall talent strategy.

Tammy Triolo: I think that analogy is a really good one. Bringing bodies into a burning building. And I think one of the reasons why diversity, equity and inclusion hasn't done well for as long as it's been around is because the people who are in charge of doing this for us don't have empathy for the people they're bringing in.

So if you don't care about those people, if you can't imagine yourself in those people's shoes, if you can't feel for them in any real way, then you won't make substantial changes in that building to make sure it's not on fire right before they come in the building because you don't care about them in the way that you care about yourself.

They couldn't see themselves in these people's lives. They couldn't see themselves in these people's lived experiences. They couldn't see themselves in these people's career trajectory. They couldn't see themselves. And so if you can't see yourself as a part of the greater consciousness of humanity, then you're not going to care for the person that you're bringing in.

And part of being a good company is being a good leader. And so we know that most company culture happen at the mid management level. So if your managers don't see themselves in you at all, if they can't recognize, if they cannot connect to anything in you, they're not going to care for you.

Dr. Jim: I I like everything about what you just said. And I think it took me back to some of the things that I experienced when I was coming up through my career is that, you have volumes. Of what I call corporate jargon that's thrown out there and managers who don't, everybody talks about from a leadership perspective, the one of the fundamental lessons of leadership is to meet people who where they are.

Tammy Triolo: Yes.

Dr. Jim: is being able to break it down that way. So I appreciate how you've put. Put a highlight around that concept. I want you to think about the things that you're doing right now and the things that you've accomplished throughout your career. When you think about the accomplishment that you're most proud of, what would that be?

Tammy Triolo: I think my proudest accomplishment thus far, especially in this business that I've been doing for the past 3. 5 years is when I'm in a training or I'm in a roundtable discussion with leaders and managers, and I actually can see the light bulb go off like I can see the moment like you can. You could tell the moment with Something penetrates and something goes through.

And. I got an email from her saying, I would love for you to come in and do some training for my agency at the time. I didn't know who was in the meeting, in those trainings that the employees just came. And she said, I have been thinking about what you said in that training for the past two years.

In fact, I still use a lot of what you said in that training and how I do my work today. And that for me was like one of the most proudest moments of my career because I do this work from a complete place of love and passion, right? And I'm honest about how I talk about these tough conversations, race, gender, sexuality, all the things around diversity, equity and inclusion.

Dr. Jim: One of the things that struck me about what you just mentioned was that light bulb moment and it got me thinking about, the readiness that people need to be at or the space that they need to be at from deconstructing some of their preconceived notions to even attend a training that you might offer.

I'm sure there's a lot of people that are listening to our conversation. They might be at a stage from an organizational perspective where they look at DEI as a check the box exercise, how do you move from that?

What state your intention for this? And I think when people get clear about their intention, they can then decide whether or not they're pursuing the E I for the right intention. Because if your intention is just to check boxes, the only people hurt by that are the people that you're bringing in to check those boxes.

So one of the things that I work with my clients as we start with, what is the intention here? Make them state the intention for why they're wanting to do diversity, equity, inclusion and outside of like governmental agencies where you have mandated that quotas that you have to do. And to some degree, even in corporate settings, if you're getting any federal funding, you have to have certain numbers.

But outside of that, right? Because a lot of companies have, they do what they need to do to meet those thresholds and goals. And then anything above that is intentional work. So if the work is intentional yeah. state your intention for the work.

Asking the question, what are you trying to accomplish? It's such a powerful question. That's come up before that. I think I really appreciate you bringing that out, switching gears a little bit. So when you look at all the stuff that you have going on and some of the things that you want to accomplish as a leader in this space, what's the thing that's on your radar that you want to get done for next year, that's going to have a massive impact on the work that you're doing.

And so my moonshot is to be an integrable part of bringing humanity anti racism in a real intangible way, not in a way that a company could just put it on their website. We are an anti racist hospital with anti racist organization. But when people go to that hospital and read that statement that the impact is actually felt not just from the employee perspective, but the patient perspective that when they go into that hospital, they feel and see the notable change.

Dr. Jim: that's really important. When you think about the most fun aspect of the role that you're in, tell us a little bit about what gives you the most joy in the work that you do.

And not that they're not being real and honest when we're doing the actual consultancy and work, but it's very structured. It's very, we know what we're working on. And when you get into mentorship with people, you get to really see them, you get to experience the vulnerability of them. And why, the work that they're doing is impactful for them.

So I think the most fun is when we move from the consultancy or classroom into one on one mentorships, and I get to be with those people. One on one that's the most fun for me,

Dr. Jim: When I opened the show, I noted. That when you think about how elite organizations and teams are built, they're centered around empathy.

Tammy Triolo: for me, I think once I understood that being nice was not the same as being kind, it was a game changer. And so a lot of organizations, a lot of leaders want everybody just to be nice to one another. But if you've been following me for a long time, you know that I tell you that nice is fake. It's not real.

There's nothing genuine about it. And kindness requires courage. Because kindness requires you to have the courage to tell people the truth because the truth is kind, right? How we deliver that truth can also be kind. But at the end of the day, the truth is kind. And so I think for me, understanding the difference between being nice and being kind was revolutionary for me.

They can just be kind. And I think when you're interacting with people and you're dealing with people, the kindest thing you can do for people is to be honest with them and tell them the truth.

Dr. Jim: You mentioned something in there that I'd like you to expand on. And it's the whole concept of delivery. I'd like to draw a distinction between what nice looks like and what kindness looks like, but especially tie it into how you deliver the message so that you're actually serving the person that's receiving it in a way that helps them advance.

You won't say it directly because you don't want to hurt the person's feelings. Now kindness is whenever I'm delivering a message. With kindness, I moved myself back into a space of empathy. And I say to myself, if somebody was saying this to me, and especially if this is a truth that is hard, how would I want them to say this to me?

How would I want this delivered for me? And so when I think about if you had to tell this to yourself, Tammy, or somebody sitting across from you and you have to be kind, but this is a truth that you have to deliver. Use that tone that you would want used on you. Use that delivery that you would want used on you.

And so I think that's when you think about what the delivery is going to be, just sit with yourself for just a minute and say, if this was a truth, somebody had to tell me, how would I want this truth delivered to me? Right now, I understand that everybody has different levels of the ability to handle some truth, right?

But I may have another team member where kindness is necessary, but delivery is definitely going to matter to her or definitely going to matter to him. So good leaders should know who they have on their team. And how they need to communicate to those people. So if you have someone on your team where, the delivery is going to matter, just sit with yourself about 30 seconds and say, this is a hard truth.

And how would I want this delivered to me? And then deliver in that tone, deliver in that manner to the person you're sharing that truth with.

What are some of the other things that they should be doing so that they could build that capacity to deliver direct messages with empathy and make sure that they're being kind in the process?

how they like talking about issues, how they respond to issues. So one of the things for managers is it's not just learning how to sit with yourself, but learning to sit with your team members. So you have a beat on how they like to be communicated, how you should communicate it to this team member, how you should be having this conversations.

And I think all new managers need to start there. Start with one on ones with your team members, get to learn them. Get to learn their communication style, get to learn the body language of people that come into a room. When I was a director for a pharmacy, I used to have employees come in and they would say, stop looking at my body, Tammy, because I was so keenly aware to what their body was doing, even if they're faced.

To that conversation. And I think the only way you get there is spending time with your team members. So when you do have to do hard truths and you do have to deliver it kindly, you have a beat on who the person is that you're talking to. So you can deliver those messages kindly.

So that was the take, the hidden takeaway that I pulled out of what you said.

I want to play a devil's advocate a little bit and

pull on this a little bit more.

And I think your experience from being a leader within the nursing space is going to be relevant. A lot of people that are going to be hearing what you said, taking the time to listen, taking the time to see what's going on and be with your people and do one on ones. Yeah, that's great. But I'm in a super busy environment.

I don't have time for any of that stuff. You came out of the health care space and specifically the nursing world. What were the things that you did in that high pace environment to create that time that positioned you to build these great teams?

And so I would have meetings sometimes with nurse managers While they were walking to the cafeteria, no matter what they're busy, right? So they don't have time to sit down and have a 30 minute meeting with me, but I would walk and talk with them. I would sit at the cafeteria with them, right? Because I was always engaged.

I understood their life was busy. So I just implanted myself in that busyness, right? So I made it easy for them to still have these very important conversations, but it didn't feel like I was interrupting the flow of their work and the flow of their lives. It takes me back to a lot of times when you see these movies and it's the businessman walking really fast out the building and the secretary or the assistant is walking alongside them and they're still asking the questions and they're still so you can get work done if the intention is to get it done right.

And so sometimes managers are busy. Sometimes leaders are busy, find ways to fit into their busy that doesn't disrupt them from being busy, but it allows you to get the information you need for your team.

Meet people where they are. You just illustrated how you meet your team where they are versus having them meet you on your terms. So I really like how you drew that out. So for those folks that are leading teams in high volume environments, maybe that's what you should look at in terms of how you do that relationship build.

So you're more successful in building those relationships.

Tammy, really great stuff. And I think we've built a lot of context. And I especially like the fact that we just we just spelled out how you do this in a high paced environment.

And we've actually built some structure around some of the common business cliches and how you actually execute it. So this is really good. I want to shift the topic a little bit.

There'll be people that want to start the work of building a more empathetic leadership style, delivering messaging with kindness. What are the things that they need to be looking out for that could be dangerous when they try to execute this?

Tammy Triolo: I think one of the big red flags that they should be looking out for is how engaged that people are. We say this a lot there's a lot of people working, but there's a lot of people disengaged in the work. And I think pay attention to the people that are truly engaged in the work. And you can get that from a five minute conversation about how engaged employees are, how engaged leaders are.

An environment can go from neutral to hostile to friendly pretty quickly. And a lot of leaders don't pay attention to the environments that they're in and the environments that their people are in. And. Being very aware of when you walk into the meeting, what's happening in that environment. When you walk onto the floor with your employees, what is the energy?

What is the, what does the space feel like to you? That's critically important. So those are the red flags. I would say, if you are pay attention to the employees who are no longer engaged and play, pay attention to the employees who got really quiet and pay attention to the environment that you, your team.

It is sitting in pay real close attention.

Dr. Jim: I want to expand a little bit on what you just mentioned, and especially the point about, pay attention to folks that were the idea factory and all of a sudden they've gone quiet. How do you productively confront that in a way that allows you to understand what's going on?

So I wasn't always as accessible. And so I noticed that she wasn't coming in with these bright ideas anymore. And some of it was. Not so much about whether or not the department can change. I think for her, it was a point of connection with me as her leader and wanting to know where she was. And so one of the things that I noticed that she'd stopped doing that.

And so one day I just invited her to lunch outside of the building. Not in the building. I just took her to lunch and I said I know I've been really busy. And I've noticed that you've gotten really quiet. I miss these wild ideas and you stopped giving them to me. What's going on? And it was just taking her out of the environment of work, sitting across from her.

Because your employees have a vision of where they think they can go in your organization, especially if you as the leader and not filling the gap and helping them create that vision, right? And so she was creating a vision for where she thought she could go. And once she decided there was no place for her to grow.

She just stopped offering ideas. And so it allowed me to reset that state what was possible in the department for her. And it allowed her to come back to the table with ideas

I appreciate you hanging out with us and sharing all of this stuff. So before we wind down. We've talked about why this is important. We've talked about some of the context behind it. We've gotten even into some of the how, but I want to tie it all together and have you talk us through some of the key things that leaders need to be focused on so that they can execute this.

Let's boil it down and identify the top three or four things that leaders need to be focused on when they're trying to execute at this level.

And so looking at your employees experience through your own of how you got to leadership, never be so removed. From that journey of how you got there that you can't recognize the journey for your employees below you. And this is critical because leaders get to leadership role, and especially if they've been there for a long time, you can often forget the walk to how you got there and not recognize that you're Employees below you are on that same walk you were once on.

And this is why empathy is critical to that. Because if you can keep empathy at the heart of your leadership, then you will be invested in making sure that your team, your other leaders and managers are doing well because you understand you're connected to what that was like for you to get where you are and where people are trying to go.

You're rude when you say you speak frankly. And to me, Frank is just being very honest about what is and what isn't. As leaders, sometimes there's things we can share with our teams and there's things we cannot share with our teams depending on where you sit in leadership in your organization. But even be honest about that.

Say to your team, listen, I know that you feel the changes that are happening in the organization and I'm always going to be honest about how it impacts you and the things I cannot share with you. I'm going to be honest and tell you, I cannot share that with you right now. That level of frankness and honesty goes a long way with leaders and their teams.

Because what your team will know is that your manager is always looking out for you in ways, even when they can't say the thing that you think they can say. But the fact that they're saying to you, Hey, Jim. I know you can because employees aren't silly when things are happening in the organization.

I will share with you what I can't and the things that I can't share. I will always be honest with you and very frank and saying we are having discussions. I cannot share it right now, but the things that are impact the things that may impact you as an individual or department I will share those when I can just being frank.

Dr. Jim: Just your takeaways could have been a show on its own. So great stuff, Tammy. I know you're everywhere. If anybody wants to continue the conversation with you and dig deeper, where can they find you?

LinkedIn and TikTok is probably the two places that you're going to find me being very active for my voice and my work.

Dr. Jim: I would I would encourage everybody listening to go find Tammy on both platforms. I'm constantly learning stuff at least five or six times a day, just consuming the stuff that she puts out. So she's awesome. Why am I talking as if you're not sitting right there? You're awesome. So Tammy, I really appreciate you hanging out with us and you pushed out so much stuff in this conversation and I think I, I'd probably be a crappy host if I didn't highlight the things that impacted me.

Unless you're not clear on that intent, you're going to run off and do a whole bunch of work that's not going to go anywhere, and it's not going to serve your people. So if you're looking at doing any of this work, You need to make sure that you're defining intent. The second thing that stood out in the conversation to me is as a leader, you have to be ruthlessly disciplined about how you're spending your time.

And if you're picking between spending time on. Helping execute the work versus spending time on helping develop your people pick the latter, because that's your number one priority, and it's not just enough to just spend time in helping to develop your people, you need to do it in a way where you're adopting a servant's mentality and meeting them where they are.

The perspective of a new hire into the organization, you're letting your team down. So those are things that you need to be able to do on a consistent basis to be effective. So Tammy, gold conversation for those of you who have been listening to the episode leave us a review, let us know what you thought of it.

Tune in next time where we'll bring on another great leader to share with us the game changing realizations that they had that helped them build a high performing team.