We often ask kids what they want to be when they grow up, but a more impactful question might be WHO do you want to be? And for us adults who have let the world influence our ideas of who we are, sometimes the best thing to ask ourselves is who we want to UNbecome. 

In this conversation, Hallie and I reflect on the importance of being present in the moment and the process of “unbecoming” to discover one's true self. We also explore the shift in generational perspectives towards life and work and how our religion or spiritual perspectives influence our views on life.

Takeaways

• It's not about slowing life down; it's about being present.
• “Unbecoming” is about shedding layers of identity and ego.
• Generational shifts are changing perspectives on work and life.
• Spirituality can be found in various practices, not just religion.
• Midlife is an opportunity for awakening and reflection.

View full show notes here.

Welcome to the 200 % live podcast, your weekly insights to spiritual growth in business success with Adam Hergenrauther and Halle Warren.

weekend for a job. No, he was selling something from the medical industry but he was talking about how wonderful Mirror Lake is and where would you stay? We were at Golden Arrow on Mirror yeah, stayed at Golden Arrow. Yeah, which I thought it looked familiar and honestly

probably multiple times when I was there, I was talking about you. I'm like, Bill's probably like, what the hell? But I'm like, I wonder where Adam swam. I'm like, did he swim on Mirror Lake? This lake doesn't look big enough for an Ironman. Was it Mirror Lake or like, So Mirror Lake, do two laps. But there's what the beautiful thing about, so people that do Ironman that aren't really strong in the swim, which is predominantly most people.

Leg plas is awesome because one, it's not wavy. It's not an ocean. It's usually always cold enough that you can wear a wetsuit because that's always, because it gives you more buoyancy. So that's a big thing of having people get scared having to swim 2 .4 miles out of wetsuit. Because the wetsuit does help you stay afloat a lot. It helps buoyancy. do you run the, did the length of the mirror? So no, it's not even a length. So basically what it is is do you happen to see buoys out there?

I'm sure you've probably probably saw this buoy. So there's a there's a cable line about seven feet under the water and it runs into a perfect rectangle and the rectangle actually it goes further out but they they write the buoys on it so that it actually comes out to be basically 1 .2 miles and so it's only it's I say only but it's about you know what is that point six miles out

not even because then you make a turn and then come back and you do it again. So it ends up being 2 .4 miles, but you just do it twice. Got it. but it is one of the, the worst part is like, would you have to get out of the water after the first lap and run over the beach again and then get, threw back into it. then, but it's like, I remember just getting out of the beach and you're like, have to do this. Where is where's the beach? was a golden arrow be, no, was on the, was on the,

the opposite side of Golden Arrow. We didn't see it. It's just a tiny little beach right there. You just get up and run up over into it. Okay. And then it also has a long transition period where once you get out of the water, it's like a, I would say a quarter mile on downhill to where the

The event center is down there like right home. You have to run all the way down there to get your bike. So it's one of the longer runs to get to back to your bike, but it's downhill and it's good. but it's just a, it's a beautiful sitting. city was packed. Like, mean, of course the weather was beautiful and it was just, I hadn't been like plastic in probably like 20 years and it's very, very, really cool. Little, little spot. Yeah. What'd you guys do? Just hang out. We had wedding to go to. Yeah. Bill's cousin was getting married, so it was, it was awesome. Yeah. That's great.

Yeah, was a, if I ever did an Iron Man again, I probably would do it in there just because it's just such a beautiful setting and it's really magical.

That's cool. So my daughter, which is interesting, she is going on a seventh and seventh grade in Stowe. They go a week away as the entire class and they go to Maine, which I know you love. do love Maine. Where do they go? They actually, they're they're like a block away from the ocean. It's up past Wells area. I know that well. that area. And there's like a dorms up there. I don't know what school. It's not a big popular school, but there's dorms that the kids stay in. Okay. I where.

And it's summer up there and they do like they study like lobsters. They dissect fish. They just do this whole thing. They shoot like bow and arrows. They go for like a nature walk and kind of explore the whole thing. But it's like really neat that like to see school still doing this that in this day and age that they're literally they bust the kids. She's on a bus right now. And she's so excited because they're taking a coach bus. you know, like one of those like it's she's like they didn't know that until like a week and a half ago. And they're like, we're taking this bus. It's got like a bathroom. And it's like this. Yeah, it's like basically she's like, it's so comfortable. It's got all these seats. And so she's all she packed on

Friday and packing every day. was just, and Sienna has been away for two weeks at a time for sleepovers. Actually, she went away for three weeks, the longest one.

for summer camp. For summer camp. all of her, most of her other friends have never gone away for a week. So this is just such a good experience for them. And they have that in seventh grade every year, every class goes through this. How big is her? 65 people. 65. wow. That's bigger than I thought. 65 people in her class. So they go over there and they just, and you know, they have different instructors and like a while these structures have been doing this for 30 years. And you know, of course it was like, you're sad to see your daughter. And I literally just was thinking about this in terms of relates to time. I was like, I gave her big hug and

I love her and she get in the car because Sarah was dropping her off and I just look over I'm like before you know it like we're gonna be dropping her off to college and it's just like and I was talking to Sarah about this afterwards and sometimes my drive in the office I just call yeah, it's like she's in seventh grade. It's like six years like it's yeah, but it's like she just started right so but still like I'm just like we're just gonna she's being the car and like she's gonna go off on her and it's like and it just got me we're like really kind of like reflecting on like these the quality of the moments that you can have and just not like and I know you get so

easy to say this and people listen to this and it's so easy to listen to it and then not put in the play but just like really

There's nothing like you can be sitting on a rock and be in total bliss or you can be sitting in a palace and be miserable. And it's like the quality that you can bring into the moment or like that you're experiencing from life. And we get so caught up in needing or like the mind wanting something to be such a certain way or, or wanting life to slow down. It's not about slowing life down. It's really about not missing life. And so I always try to like, that's like the biggest point. to make the people does move slower when you are more present.

Yes, that's what I mean. So it's not about wanting more time or not. I found myself wanting, this is kind what I'm trying to say, is I found myself being like, man, I need to slow time down. I go, no, Adam. It's not about slowing time down. I have no control over that. It's actually about. it's impossible. impossible. It's actually about just being, like embracing.

the moment so I'm fully aligned in the moment. Like I'm fully in the moment. And whatever that transition period is, whether you're, driving to the office, I'm walking to the bathroom, that's how time slows down. It's not about me thinking about time slow down. That's just a mental concept that I made up that has no relevance on real life. And so it's really just about putting yourself into the quality of the moment that you have, regardless of whether or not you like the moment, by the way, whether you don't like the moment. It's just about the moment's happening.

I can handle the moments happening and how do I put myself into the moment? So how do I really enjoy being part of that moment? And just it's, you know, we've said this many, many times, this podcast and teachings, but it's, and I know you.

get this now too as well, but it's just, never about physically where you are or what you're doing. Sure, there's different experiences. I'll get you that. And different experiences feel way different, right? They just do like traveling on an airplane in a private jet feels a little bit different than sitting in the back seat of different things or being on the beach, you know, on your own, your own Island feels a little bit different than being next to a swimming pool, but it doesn't, it's not going to make you any happier.

like long term, that sustained joy that people are looking for, the experience may go up and down. That's just part of life, just like whether it comes in and out. But this whole concept of just embracing the quality of the moment, regardless, that's the whole point I'm trying to make, is just regardless of what's actually happening, you can still really be in the moment experiencing life for the totality of what it is. And that's the gift that you can get. It's funny that you mention that because I...

all weekend and actually I just posted last night on Instagram. was literally my post was like enjoy every moment and about like literally I was like hashtag enjoy everyone. I was thinking the exact same thing like all weekend and then I've taken, I don't wanna say like life for granted but I've been really feeling that a lot lately. sometimes I look and I don't have any regrets. So that's not about regrets over the past 10 or 15 years because I wouldn't be where I am now in all sorts of different ways.

But I do look back sometimes and just say, man, don't my my priorities. don't know if they were just different. And I have different perspective now and different priorities. And sometimes I do look back and I'm like, I don't even know what happened in the past 10 years because I wasn't even there. You know, what's what's really cool about that, though, that reflective nature is that each year that you get a little bit older, each one us gets older. It's like you shed the old and bring the new into the next year so that you just reform yourself every single year.

It's like I always think of it as like shedding the things that didn't make sense and by the way you can't everyone that kind of focuses on the path that you have in terms of to grow yourself is always gonna look back and be like why would I think that way just like I would think about like when I was a teenager going like what was I even doing like how did but like in the moment that's what you think so in the moment if you don't know any higher moment

or don't know any higher level of thinking, you just don't know, so you can't do that. But the whole purpose is then to keep reflective on that and look and going, even in this moment now, I don't know what I don't know so that when I'm 10 years later, what am I gonna say that I missed or if I wasn't present? I think it always comes back to, as long as you can, again, what I just said is if you can just fully be experiencing the moment, you can never go wrong. That's the only way to live life, is to truly experience the moment.

Yeah. You know how we always and I we always used to say this and I don't know how you feel about it anymore. But about like, who do you want to become like that whole saying, which I still think there's a lot of value in thinking thinking that way, like being intentional about, you know, what you listen to and who you interact with, because all of that does influence who you become. And I'm probably probably talked about this before, but

It actually, I think about it now more than ever about not who do I want to become, but it's actually an unbecoming. It's a little bit about what you just said about peeling back because it isn't actually about being anyone different or becoming anyone different. It's actually getting rid of all of the things that we've layered on top of identity and ego and external expectations.

on becoming all of that so that you can get back to who you really are. Yeah, I love that. know, our particular Western side has gotten way out of hand with thinking that physicality or physical things is life. And that's just the biggest physical achievements, money, all it. Don't get me wrong. It's not fun to be poor either. So it's not about not getting after any those things. think less because I'm not particularly materialistic, but I think about job titles, accolades, accomplishments. Like that's the

beyond that, that's we value life. Even kids when they first start, it's like, okay, what did you get in your report card? And like, and it's just ended up being about better than somebody else. That's just a thought based on what you've read recently that you're going to answer to. And it's a fireman because you saw a book about it when you were a kid. And that's why people end up reading that because a lot of children's books are about comic heroes and firemen and police officers. I will say, I do think there is value in looking back at what you wanted to do as a child because I

that that is actually more of a more of a pure answer than when somebody asks you when you're 20. We know we I wrote this to our project you group over the weekend and then we'll jump into something but like was always about the the two purposes that you have in your life. Did you get those still? But anyways I talked about the kind of the two reflective purposes. There's the purpose of like

the ultimate purpose to me in your life is to let go of the part of you that's preventing you from actually enjoying life, which is kind of what we're going before. But there is purpose number two, which is all the roles that we play and then doing them well. It's kind of like, how do you answer the question of like wanting to pursue growth and having fun in the external world and yet at the same time, not forgetting the quality of the experience that you're having in all times, kind of what you're saying. And that's where the intersection of those is where fundamentally everyone always comes back to you and struggles with until you get the first one right, which is

I'm gonna wake up and there's gonna be a bunch of things that happen and I can honor and appreciate the moments that are unfolding in front of me and then I'm gonna play all these roles. I'm gonna play a role as being a podcaster. I'm gonna play a role as being a parent or a stranger or a friend or whatever these different things and you're gonna play them well. Have fun playing those roles.

but they're just, that's your secondary purpose. Most people kind of in their world have made that their primary purpose. And so then they got the only way to be happy is to get them the physical things and the physical things will then make you happy. And so then you just basically get on this cycle of going, unless I get what I want, I don't feel good. Which is the same thing of saying, unless I go get some heroin, this is a controversial thing, but like, unless I go, if I go get heroin, I'm addicted to heroin, it's going to make me feel better.

it's going to, right? Versus saying, I'm gonna go get what I want, it's gonna make me feel better. There's no difference. Because it's both a desire and a need based on an addiction that somebody has.

I just used to could fill in heroin with alcohol, could fill it with cigarettes, whatever it is that you want, it's there. A job promotion. A job promotion, exactly. It's there. It's no different than saying, well, I was using this like a physical addiction, somebody would say that you're addicted to it, but there's no difference between - Workaholism is That's what I'm saying. That's what I mean. Basically, I was just saying like a, you know what I mean? But like, it's no different than saying, well, when I go get what I want, I'm going to feel better. I'm going go after doing that. It's the same sickness. So I'm with you. The two purposes in life.

And I do. I don't know if this is right or not, but I, I'm like, okay, well we can sit here and talk about it, about how much more important it is to go off of the, to get that first purpose in life. The, that, know, the more spiritual one, but only because we've both done the other one and realize that it doesn't get you what you want. I think there's plenty of other

Parts around the world that actually put this way before anything else So if you're looking at from like a like a worldly standpoint There's a lot of places that put more emphasis on this than we do in the Western Society Yes, I agree, but I guess I'm just maybe I'll just take my personal experience. It's easy sometimes I feel like well It's easy sometime not easy. think what it's not easy at all, but it's easier to have that conversation and say

Don't go down that path. It's not actually gonna get you what you want, until you've done it, you don't know. So sometimes people need to go after it and do that, just to experience it. But I think fundamentally, I think what you're saying is the more you accomplish the more of what you want, the more you realize it doesn't work. Yes. In the beginning, when you go, I just need to get a $5 raise, or I just need to get this credit card paid off, and you get what you want, it's the same principle.

It's just when it gets more larger, like when you get more of what you want and the more of what you want turns you on and then you realize the more of what you want actually doesn't work.

That's when it becomes, like you said, easier to say that. But I would encourage people to go back and do this their entire life because people have already been doing this regardless of what level of income that you are. It's like, I got my first date. I got, you know, my first vacation or whatever it is. like, sure, they're a possible experience, but did it turn you on forever? And it's like, it doesn't matter what anybody, whatever their physical class is, you can always have that conversation. And they go, yeah, that's true.

because it's putting reference because what they're doing is they're going in their mind and saying, well, yeah, if I was a millionaire like Halle was, then it would be easier to be able to say that.

That's why the larger, it's easier to say that at that level. And it is because the more you get what you want, the more you realize it doesn't work. And that's what we'll Right, or even like a relationship. That's It's That's what I'm saying. It's anything. It's just like, or it's like you get your book published or like you get your article in a peer reviewed magazine in there that doesn't get you any money, right? But it's like you get all these different things out there. It doesn't matter what it is. Maybe just your kid makes a sports team that you just wanted there. again, it feels good, but it doesn't turn you on permanently.

And that's just, that's the difference between all of that. But yes, when you get more, like Will Smith said it best, right, in his book, Will, remember reading that? I just think his line was good in there where he basically said, you know, when I was building up to these things, was like, you know, if I was the number one rapper, or like the, you know, made all the, you know, whatever type of money that I made. And he goes, finally, like when I was,

working towards it, you always feel like I still have a little bit more to go and then I'll feel it. But he's like, then when you become all of that stuff and you realize you don't feel anymore, that's when the depression really hits in. And that's, think that's the more you get of the more that you want, which a lot of driven people can do that. That's why a lot of people wake it up and go, holy shit, this doesn't work. I think more and more people though are getting this way earlier, way earlier now. at any, like even people. Well, things are like I was gonna say, even like Gen Z they, which is a generation after us.

I a year millennial. millennial. I'm the last year of them, first year of First year, yeah, and I'm kind of in the middle. But yeah, I mean, obviously we've seen the hustle culture and that's just not a thing, as much of a thing for Gen Z and they are more interested in enjoying life and living life. The only thing I'll say about this, to me it has nothing to do with hard work.

or hustle. No, I guess it doesn't. I see. know what you're saying. just like, I always point that out. extremism that I think the millennials and other generations have. I think the way I would say it, and maybe you don't agree, is that the hard work to think that that's going to change how I feel inside. That's how I always kind of separate that in my mind. It's not about whether or not I work 90 hours a week.

I'm not saying people should do that or shouldn't do that. I'm saying is in that hustle culture, it's if I go and get what I want and by working 100 hours a week nonstop, then I'll be able to get this job or get this money and get these things that will then make me permanently feel better. That is what to me I think is going away. I think what can be placed with that, it's not about to me anyways, in my opinion, it's not about working zero or working 100.

It's purely understanding that any action that you take in the physical world is not going to permanently make you feel any better. That's why purpose number one always has to be I wake up every day with the intent to feel good inside and then just whatever happens outside I'm just handling and doing and handling and enjoying. And how do you do that? How do you, I mean, because to me that's a thought. like, okay, today I am going to just be okay with whatever happens.

Are you just telling yourself that? I think positive affirmation is a wonderful thing to use for people, but I think you have to, it's your intent first. You have to sincerely want to do this and meaning that you have to want to release the part of you that's not okay when you don't get what you want. Or you have to release the part of you that's not okay when it's trying to avoid what it doesn't want. And that's really what you're letting go of. And that's so every day I wake up to get rid of the thing that can hit me. So like as an example,

if there is a particular person's name that comes up every time they call you and it just hits you.

Right. It just hits you. We all have a couple of those people. One of these people called me on last week and I didn't answer it. And it hit me and instantaneous. I was like, fuck. Right. Like, what's this going to turn into? It's just because I just like, I've always been an issue every time and it's been a larger issue. So a person calls me and instantly hear that I go, you know what? I'm just going to keep like, if you want to keep thinking about this, I'm every time you think about, I'm just going to let this piece go. So there's nothing left in me that when it hits anymore, there's nothing to hit anymore. That's what you're letting go of.

That's the deep work. So then when that person's name shows up, it's just like, it just doesn't bother you because there's nothing in there to hit anymore. What's that quote? Is it Michael Singer, the unbothered quote? Do you remember what that is? nothing like bothering about the moment.

yeah, there's nothing, the moment itself is not bothering you. You are bothering yourself about the moment. Yeah. Yeah. It was Oprah's favorite line. Yes. The moment is not bothering you. You are bothering yourself about the moment. And that's really what it is. It's like when something hits you, it's basically showing there's something inside here that is, is not in a good state. And so that's why when I see that person, it's like when people get divorced, sure, they get divorced, but if you hear their name, instantly, if it's a bad divorce, instantly hits you. So you haven't let it go. It's still inside of you.

And it's used divorce as an example. It could be anything. It could be a car that you used to have that your parents took away or whatever it is, right? Or a boss that you used to have that fired you badly or whatever it is, right? There's a million different examples of this stuff. A school bus driver that didn't do it, right? Or a coach for a sports team that yelled at you, so you never want to play the sport again. It's all of these things. So it's inside of you. then every time if you had a coach in soccer that yelled at you, you never play soccer anymore because every time you hear soccer, you feel bad about it.

So now all of sudden your life has these thorns and that's where they all come in there. So now all of sudden you start avoiding all of these thorns because anytime you get near a thorn, it makes you feel bad inside. That's why you people go out in the physical world and try to move around these thorns to get their life a certain way so that they don't get hit. Whereas it's exhausting by the way. And it's like, think Christ said, you have to now, if you lose yourself, you have to work by the sweat of your brow.

And basically what it means is you have to go out there every day to try and get the world. And that's what people are trying to do. Instead of just removing the thorns, if you just remove the thorns, there's nothing to get hit anymore. And therefore now you're free to live your life. And that to me is what, you know, we used to call a lot by absolute freedom, which is be able to move through the world. doesn't mean, look, I don't care who you are. There's nothing in the world that's going to go your way all the time. There's nothing that's going to go your way that doesn't always go your way sometimes. It's just, it's going to do its dance. And are you okay with that?

And so then it's like, I'm not gonna go build. So this is where I podcast and people define success. I don't if you've heard me say this. think that you probably have, yeah.

I'm not sure. I've always kind of used this definition of what I believe people are saying when it says go be successful, Hallie, is it means go get enough money, power, fame, leverage, names next to your initials, a certain job title, so that it gives you the ability to control the outside environment so that when the outside environment comes in, it generates the thoughts and emotions that make you feel good so you can feel good inside.

And that's typically how what people are saying to do. They don't say it that way, but that's what they're saying. say like, maybe this is what you're saying. But when I, when I think like, what is your definition of success or what does go be successful mean to you? For me, it's a very personal answer and it's, but it is largely about what, whatever it is that is most important to you and that you want in life. And if you get it, that means you're successful.

So while it might not be one particular thing, still is about, what do you want? Can you get it?

that equals success. And what people are saying about success is because it's a feeling that you're looking for inside. It's a thought that generates So what is your definition of success? Well, think that's why the purpose number two is you can have all those. So you can have the purpose number two is the roles that you play. So you can have success financially. So if you want to be a millionaire, if you want to be wealthy, or you want to be a retiree, these are awesome. But they're not permanently going to make you feel OK. None of that stuff will.

You've experienced that, you know that it won't. And so then it comes down to is what you have to do is remove the thorn so that you're enjoying whatever roles you're playing, whatever the outcomes are or the roles. doesn't, still doesn't mean you can't be laser focused on things. So success for you or in your definition is being able to wake up, and enjoying every moment. I would say it differently. would say success for me is every day that I feel,

Disturbed inside that I'm taking that moment to release whatever is being hit in there so that it doesn't affect me again So that success ultimately is being able to wake up and actually truly being okay with whatever life is going to throw at me that day and it's not about what I want or don't want it's just truly going through there and being a soldier and allowing life to just do its dance and me being a participant in here because it depending on how You know people suffer so much because we don't

think about things in context. If you were to go out and say, if you look at all the cosmos, Earth could go away. Every single person, every single person you admire, every single person that has all, whatever it is, could go away and like alien species and the cosmos wouldn't even blink an eye. It wouldn't even be like anything. It would just be boom, gone. And all of us would just be nothing. We'd just be gone. But yeah, and then it's like, then you take like Earth itself as a small microcosm of

The galaxy itself is even a microcosm of all the galaxies. And you get down to Earth. then you take Vermont as a microcosm of a microcosm of a microcosm. then Chittenden County is a microcosm of that. And maybe you're big in Chittenden County. But if you bring this out in totality, it's nothing. And it's just reminding us that. How do you not go into the nihilistic side of that, where nothing matters because nothing matters? Well, I think that's a thought.

I think that when you get to that level, that's all, that's just your mind saying, well, then if nothing matters, then nothing matters. Right. But I also feel like, well, nothing matters. So why are we taking everything so seriously all the time? Sometimes I do think it's like a positive, it could be a positive thought. Yeah, I still think it's a thought. I think if you dropped that thought, you wouldn't even think of that and you would enjoy life. The reason why people don't enjoy life is because they're thinking and they're paying attention to their thoughts.

And then they're trying to get their thoughts. we given a brain to think you're given a brain to abstractly review things, not to use it to beat yourself up or think about how you can be happier. And that's what people build these mental constructs in their head, and then it's not even real. And that's where the ego comes in or self -concept or whatever you to refer to is you just built this collage of memories with your mind. It's like it's in some way animals controlling the mind. Well, you can just let the mind do its dance.

Like you're in there, don't have to pay attention to your thoughts. The mind's just gonna generate thoughts. The problem is we've come so close to touching it that we're just becoming it now. And we now are addicted to our thoughts because when your mind says, you know, if you just took a vacation and it went away right there, you'd probably feel really good. And you go, yeah, we're gonna go on vacation. Then you start looking up online where you can get a good deal, where you can go on these different things. Now all of sudden your whole life is built around this vacation that your mind decided this idea of.

And it's not about not taking vacations, not having kids, or not building a business. Again, that's the secondary purpose. stop yourself from thinking? You don't stop from thinking. You're never going to stop from thinking. What you stop is paying attention to thinking. It's just like you're never going to stop having emotions or thoughts. is so entertaining, though. I know it is. And that's what people want to do. It's very entertaining.

It's actually, that's why, and that's again, that's why I use that. That's why I can be alone all the time because I've, you know, I'm entertained all the time by myself. And that's what people are doing. But the thing is, that's why they're, but then you just wake up one day and you go, I don't know where I was because you weren't here. You were paying attention to your mind and your self -concept. that's by the way, that's 99 .99 % of the world.

And that's why I people are waking up. Elon Musk say this two weeks ago at a conference and he said, he said, you know, multi -planetary species and he's talking about something like that. And he's like, you know, I gotta tell you, look around the world right now. And he goes, if we really are like on some Netflix series from a, know, like extra threshold activities, like we're getting some pretty high ratings right now. I just couldn't help but laugh. Like, you know, I always think this is kind of a little off topic, but like, I always think of like alien life is like.

I to me or extraterrestrial activity is not like a form of like some physical thing. I think it's like something that we just don't even see like your thoughts or emotions. And that's like the level of what I was going to say alien life. Yeah. You remember the Disney movie soul? Yeah. Like for honestly, that movie explained more to me about like spiritual life than anything like point of it. Yeah, it was. And I guess that's what I'm thinking. Like the little souls that are wherever like.

that maybe that's the extraterrestrial life is just all this stuff happening in the... Because where do thoughts come from? Cosmos. They're all out there and at some point we'll probably be able to see it. At some point we'll look back at whatever is a thousand years, a million years, a billion years and you go, that's where all the source of information is coming from. And you just, it'll be like a completely different experience. Just like for what it is. Do you... It's almost like we're little individual ambassadors for the overall consciousness.

And every thing that's here is an ambassador. Dogs, cats, plants, animals, weather, all of it is energy. And all of it is a little ambassador that is giving the collective experience. Because if it wants to experience itself, it can't just experience itself by one thing. It's experiencing self through everything. So we're all little individual ambassadors having these experiences that are then relaying the experiences back to itself to experience itself.

And from that standpoint, what? I'm like, I think you lost me there. No, it's like, to me, makes perfect sense. Yeah. And everybody else. Just kidding. But that we are one small part of Yeah, it's just like, so you're experience. I'm having experience. But both of our experiences are going back to the cloud. That's what I mean, right? So I have a photo. You have a photo. But they're being stored in the same cloud.

If you went to Google Photos, I went to Google Photos, where we're getting the cloud, you could say I have my own personal photo, but it's being stored in the same cloud. And who's the cloud or what's the cloud? Consciousness. And I'm just using that word. Whatever word you want to fill in there, God, I just use conscious because it's just easier for me to comprehend. How do you see the difference between, you just mentioned it, God.

in consciousness. Well, I think it's the same. just think people, think when people think of a God, they think of like literally what they've been, they're like a thing or a person. To me, God is used like way back in hundreds of thousands of years ago, it was used as a way of referencing consciousness. It's just like God is everything. And it's just, it's just, and now it's hard for like somebody like me to think of it as God because I've been so, in like basically

been so taught to think that it's like a person or like a human or like this person that's sitting there that's controlling everything. To me it's much more of like it's just all energy and is one source of energy just like the Sun. Which I think is how like the Christian God is somewhat referred to as... Yeah but they also... I mean it became... Yeah I don't know enough about it. Bush or whatever like it wasn't really a human form Jesus is different but yeah.

To me, it doesn't matter how you define it in your mind. It's just that there is source of consciousness. it. I think there's different ways at access points. There's going to be a whole bunch of different ways that work better for different people. Do you? actually, it's funny. I wrote down something about religion because I wanted to ask you. Do you?

Consider yourself like religious in a traditional because sometimes you do talk about God and you talk about Jesus and Are you doing it more from just like that's one of the stories just like Adi Adi Ashanti has a story or Michael Singer has a story or do you Like what are your religious beliefs if any I the way I think of it is is that I think Jesus whatever Jesus Christ right was a very spiritual individual

like some of like our spiritual people of today or like Ramani Maharshi or like the Buddha originally. To me like they were just individuals that were highly, highly conscious and they, at that time that's how they wrote and they wrote these parables and they had all these different parables that kind of explain these higher states of consciousness and how to get to them.

And so to me, like when I read those things, like you can't build your house on sand, is like I would extract that into like you can't build your house on the physical things, just like we talked about in the first 15 minutes of this conversation. It's just, it's written differently. So I always like to me interpreting those things.

It helps me like that's how I see it as interpreting as literally just a spiritual dude that's out there that's wrote this book and and had all these parables that people just try to capture over the years and all of them are referencing a path towards consciousness and that's literally and then it's just consciousness being God God. Yeah, exactly So from like the religious sense, I'm not I say I'm religious, but I love I mean, I'm sure I could read other religions

and basically extract the same stories from them. I'm not gonna go practice what they think you need to do. Like specific religious tradition. Exactly, tradition in order to do those different things, because I think that is made up. people, know, they should, honestly, if that works for somebody, then that's awesome. To me, that's no different And someone might say the same thing about meditation. Absolutely, or yoga, or exercise. Like, to me, it's no different than any of those things. So if a practice of going to a physical church and listening to somebody helps you work on all these things,

you should be doing that every day. Just like if yoga or meditation has, you should be doing that every day. It's irrelevant. The actual application that you use to work on yourself, as long as that you don't become the dogma, right? Of where the teeth. can, I, know, I mean, obviously we've seen that throughout history. I mean, you, take like a, you know, we're going to go down there, but like, if you like,

put a bomb on you and like you think that by killing yourself you're gonna go to me that is the wrong trap. Or we can think about in the Salem witch trials. That's exactly right. By the way up until the 50s you couldn't eat meat on certain days because like it wasn't there. And then one day somebody woke up and was like, it doesn't work anymore. So there's a, I think originally, again this is just my perspective, people have a whole bunch of different perspectives that I value those, but like to me going.

growing up as a Baptist and going to church for a long period of time, was very much like, it was a...

They were trying to give you a way of thinking and then a way to act. And that to me is like putting a box in my head, which if you want to teach me parables of like how you can use those things in there or lessons that you can then bring into your life and put them in there, that's totally fine. Yeah. I was going to say like I grew up Catholic and going to a Catholic church and very similarly, it's like very, it's the traditions and very ritualistic. do the same thing every single time you go to church. And, and it's kind of funny that you even mentioned like putting in into a box because I can't,

Of course I can't help but think, you know, yoga, meditation, someone could say the same thing about that. You're a very specific way of doing a very specific thing, like transcendental meditation. That's a box. Totally.

But it's just like which one do you subscribe to? Yeah, yeah, I just think in for me like actually I think whatever people are doing is doing the work So I had both experiences and one is a better experience But my mom still goes to a church and she loves it and it works really well for her and she's a very happy Yeah, Bill's quite real. That's what mean. So there's nothing about it. Yeah, just nothing Yeah, it's irrelevant to me. Like it's just it's like there's so many it's just like what color shirt do you like? Right? I mean, it's and I've I don't know about you but like I have gone to

many different churches over the course of my life and read lots of different religious texts and spiritual texts and all of that and I don't want to say that they certainly aren't don't practice all the same way but I know we've talked about this too like but at the core they the messages are very very similar yeah I think that's like that's why stories are the way of telling the stories are different but yeah the

the core messages are very similar. That's why I think I was going back is like when again you think about like Jesus Christ wrote like all these parables or shared all these parables and then like people put them in a book and then I think you also have to look at the time that a lot of this came in there it was a very

brutal, disruptive time in our history. so church became a way of morally acting. And so that's where I think a lot of this kind of stemmed from. And that's why there was so much like, don't even like, it's just like they were trying to get people like steered in the right direction, at least from like my view and history of how like that came into the churches, which was like, no, if you like the seven commandments or whatever, you know, they are 10, whatever that it's like, again, like you sort of mean like it's like you create like, isn't the first

like they should not like kill like I mean it's not yeah so it's not like it's not a high bar here like so my point is like it was like the career they use this kind of like way of thinking as trying to get morality together so people didn't just wake up and kill anybody and so that's kind of wasn't one of them like they should not steal like your wife isn't that they'll shall not commit adultery so I mean again they'll shut not covet another person person yes

property or I don't remember. So again, like it was like back then it was a way of trying to get moral code almost as a way of like trying to like build those different things. And I think today we're kind well maybe it was like trying to build a civilization. mean, that's That's what I'm saying. So I think it served its purpose for what for what that was.

But I think there's just a way that you can continue on that message without the same, and by the way, churches have changed so much since they have, right? You can go and they have jeans, you can have coffee in there, you can do all these different things, and it's wonderful. And I think it's all, it's gonna continue to change. It's gonna continue to change. I just think it's very, I'm just very interested in it currently. So, I was interested in your perspective. Yeah, I think we're just all interested in waking up and realizing, okay, how do I navigate this whole thing we call life?

And how do I just enjoy the most of it? Because at some point, there's different moments that just dawn on you you're like, huh, you know, I've got four years left, 50 years left, maybe, I don't know. mean, just. do you know that you and I are.

Midlife. Yeah. No, I know. That's what I mean. Which is kind of crazy to think about. of my friend went out there and bought a new car and his wife came to me and he's like, midlife crisis? And he's like, yes. It was like, it was so cool. He just owned it. And I was like, yeah, then I'm good. It's this whole thing. And it's just, no, I really like, prefer the term midlife awakening. Whatever. Yeah. Because it's not a crisis. I already went through a crisis. That's right. But that's, that's the point of just simply waking up and realizing, wow, really here.

I get to, there's so much that's gonna happen today and who knows, a lot of things are not gonna go the way I want them to. A lot of things are not gonna go the way that I don't want them to. It's just gonna unfold. I even think about the last...

you know, six months of my life, just like from a business standpoint of how things unfolded, I could never have imagined it. Yeah. Not like it would never have gone. I know. I think I this on the last podcast. I literally thought I would work with you and until I died or you killed each other or something like I literally thought that and like.

Totally different. Well, that's the point is like you just you kind of work on the change. So I think today it's really about like think about your own life as you listen to this, if you made it this far and just think about like, do I not take myself so serious? This is the place to start, right? Just not the world could go away and everything your kids, my kids, everything just gone. Every human being wouldn't matter how much money just boom. And like it wouldn't the work, the cosmos, the galaxies wouldn't even shut it.

Just there. just makes you, then you should wake up and just go, okay, I can go and jump.