We're jumping into Season 12, Episode 13 of Supernatural "Family Feud." We debate who is actually feuding, why Crowley never learns, and what kind of vampires live in the Pembrooke Academy. Liz tells the story of another haunted ship, and that is the story of the Queen Mary. Is it really haunted? Or did Disney just ruin another thing for you?

Research Links

• Haunting of the Queen Mary: The True Story Behind The Haunted Ship
• How Disney tried to turn the Queen Mary into a Haunted Mansion at sea
• The Queen Mary Hauntings, Most Active Rooms and Ghost Stories – Strange & Twisted
• There’s Something about Mary (but It’s Not What You’ve Heard) | Skeptical Inquirer
• RMS Queen Mary - Wikipedia

On this week's episode of Devil's Trap podcast.

How do we get the ghosts Adderall and Dagnabbit?

It's Dagon.

Let's do this.

Welcome to this week's episode of Devil's Trap podcast.

I'm Diana.

And I'm Liz.

And we're going to talk about season 12, episode 13, Family Feud.

The family is a feuding.

Not really.

I don't think the family's feuding.

Does this name even make sense for this episode?

I don't know.

It's according to the wiki.

It's just like.

It's the same name as the.

As the game show, which I.

What?

Huh?

They don't play the game show.

I don't know.

I mean, I guess because they just.

There's a family.

I mean, the clouds are kind of.

I don't know.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's the closest thing to it.

Yeah.

What have you been up to?

Yeah, I think I feel like I've been really busy, but I'm like, what have I done?

Oh, we went shopping for a mirror and paint and came home with a headboard and a mattress because then I did not get a mirror or paint.

That was my super exciting time.

We went to a.

From friends invited us to sit at their table at a fundraiser for a kids camp, and it was very gala y and we got to put on cowboy chic attire and go bid on expensive stuff and eat a nice dinner with friends.

And then I went and watched a cheerleading exhibition for my niece.

It's my excitement.

That's all I got.

I don't know.

Work's been stupid.

I mean, good.

We're stupid.

But I've been busy, busy, busy.

Yeah.

How about you?

I watched the Burbs, which is really good.

So I think that was it, almost.

It was a home run, but I honestly don't remember.

I need to go back and rewatch the movie, but I wanted to finish watching the series before I rewatched the movie.

And the movie is also in this new book that I got about the satanic panic.

And it's really great.

I wish I had in front of me so I could tell you who the authors were, but I just got a signed copy of this book that's full of all this, like, really great.

All the things that were happening in the 80s and 90s that were considered evil and just all the backstory behind it.

And so it's a really cool book.

But anyways, so.

Yeah, the.

But.

So this new version of the Burbs, I thought was really well done.

And that was like the only thing I could watch because the Olympics were so on.

So I'm really glad that the Olympics are finally over and we can get back to regular television.

Really.

I enjoyed the Olympics.

I don't give a about the Olympics.

I don't care about nationalism.

And for the most part, like, it's a bunch of people playing sports.

I don't care about sports.

Love it.

I was cheering for.

We've got a little alternate.

Well, she's not even teen anymore, but like a little alt girl that ice skates and her hair is really cute.

Alyssa Lou.

And she got gold and then we had double hockey wins.

It was good.

See?

But also it's just this whole we and like it's.

But it's not you.

It's someone else put in this work.

It's not your country.

I don't know.

It's like, I don't get that rooting for sports teams.

That's not me.

I'm not a joiner.

I have a foamy.

What was it?

Phobia.

Fear of being included.

So I'm just glad it's done because now we can go back to regular scheduled programming.

There hasn't been any new tv.

There hasn't like any of, like my morning routines are all fucked up because the Daily show was like, was going off schedule and everyone was going off schedule.

And so I just need things to be in a routine and ordered.

And when you have things that mess up your regularly scheduled programming, like three weeks of the Olympics.

Yeah, it's ruined.

Oh, I'm in.

I'm drinking my wine out of my silver goblet instead of golden goblet in homage to the current season of Love is Blind.

So there we go.

That's my trash watching.

And it's very good that you have your trash TV that.

That you're watching whatever makes you happy.

You know why they drink out of golden?

The.

The metal glasses.

They always use them.

It's for continuity.

So when they edit the out of every conversation, you can't tell how empty or full their drinks are.

Boom.

There you go.

Oh, cool.

I'm glad it's not so they're getting silver poisoning anyhow.

All right, so speaking of stupid television.

No, I don't think that's quite right.

But so speaking of dumbtail.

No.

Oh, so not.

No.

We love this show.

So we're going to talk about again.

Family Feud.

There's no.

Before we do that, there's still no news on the.

The Ackles or Padaweki's radar.

I was telling Diana their publicists are really getting behind the game.

Like, they need to get some things out there.

I need.

I need to check their numbers and IMDb to see where they're ranking.

I bet they've fallen.

Jensen was so high up.

And I bet he's gone down.

Oh, maybe.

I bet.

I bet Paddle Lucky will pop up when that new movie drops.

But probably.

And, well, if the boys ever comes out, and if Rising ever comes out, then Jensen will get back up.

So look forward to that happening.

Whatever that happens.

Maybe that should happen soon.

Just saying.

Okay, so this was.

See going back to this episode.

This was season 12, episode 13.

We haven't seen PJ do anything this season.

The last time PJ was around was with season 10, episode 18, Book of the Damned.

But this was written by the duo Brad Buckner and Eugenie Ross Lemming.

And while they haven't done anything this season, last season they did.

Oh, brother, where art Thou, Hell's Angel?

And close to the end, the all in the Family one.

Okay, so they've some of this, this, this canon they are familiar with, but we're going to get some interesting canon this, this episode, I will say.

So we start off with our recap and we have a British Men of Letters pitch.

And then Abby is there.

Hooray.

And then reminded that Crowley has a kid named Gavin that we haven't seen in a while.

And then we're reminded that if you change time, there's going to be a big ripple effect.

But was there.

And then we're reminded about the Princess of Hell and Prince Princess.

Not the princesses.

The Princess of Hell.

And there are ye Yellow Eyes.

And then Lucifer's got a bun in the oven.

And Rabio's sister Dagon.

So we have all that stuff we get reminded of.

But then we are going back in time again.

We get another.

We're going another flashback to learn something that we didn't know well, but kind of.

Yeah.

So we're going to Andover, Mass.

Six months ago, and I got tired of typing Massachusetts and just started running Mass a lot.

Just gonna say Massachusetts is too long to type.

It's a long word.

Yeah.

And a woman is walking through her house brushing her teeth and something is clearly following her in the hallway, but she does not see.

And we see a hide in a closet.

And she goes in the closet, hangs a dress.

And there is so much suspense for nothing well, they're doing a whole bunch

of implied jump scares.

Right?

And they are doing, you know, I

hate a jump scare.

Yeah.

And so they'll do it completely.

And they were doing it complete with, like, music cues and going to be.

So she's gonna go in the closet, and something's gonna happen.

And so it's not.

It's not.

And then she gets into the bed, and she turns off the lamp, and she's a single lady who is sleeping in the middle of the bed.

And I am so impressed.

I sleep alone.

The cat gets that spirit fought like, I don't get to be in the middle of my bed.

And I'm so impressed with her just doing that starfish.

That starfish right in the middle of it.

But a jump scare finally does happen when hands come up from upside her mattress and hug her with its claws.

Yeah.

I made Dave go check out the mattress.

I made him watch it with me.

And I made him go check under the mattress since we just bought a new one.

I'm like, make sure there's not a monster in our mattress, sir.

In the.

Yeah.

So it's just in there.

That's a new word about I wouldn't have to worry about the monster.

Like, being in your closet now it's in your mattress.

In your mattress.

Is this worse than bedbugs?

I. Oh, maybe.

Well, it might be easier to get rid of.

I think I'd rather have a mattress hug.

It might be a mattress hug from the ghost.

At least we know how to get rid of those.

I mean, like, there's one shot usually,

but it really sucks, so I don't think I ever want to go through it again.

I think I may need to do that, like, some EMDR over my bedbug thing with my psychiatrist, just to, like, really move past that.

So.

So we get some blood splatters, right?

We go into our title card, and then we're going to the bunker and present day.

Yes.

And Sam's doing research.

And Dean gets off the phone with Castiel.

He's reporting he still has no trace of Kelly Klein.

And Sam's like, look, I found this case in Des Moines.

A teacher's body was found with no tongue and its organs crushed.

And Sam's or Dean's like, oh, that's crazy.

We should call mom to come with us.

And so we see Mary killing a monster, a Rougarou.

We find with a really crazy weapon that, like, I don't know, shoots some, like, sound waves at it or something.

And Mr. Catch is there Timing her.

And so she kills this monster.

She answers Dean's call, and she's like, oh, yeah, I'm at a motel outside Newark.

I've just been resting up after the Ramiel thing.

And I'm like, you liar.

She is lying.

She is.

And even Mr. Catch calls out that she's an excellent liar.

And she's like, look, no, I don't.

You know, she tells him that Sam and Dean don't know that she's working with man of Letters.

And so he's, like, talking about her being.

You know, because they tortured Sam and Dean.

And he's like, oh, that was our rogue operator.

And that.

That tortured them.

It wasn't Men of Letters.

Not convinced.

Yeah.

So we go from there to Crowley's lair, and there he is, lecturing Lucifer about how he will break him down to call him Master.

And we learned that his chains are made from the same material as the cage.

And we get a flashback to see how.

How this happened.

So back when Rowena was doing her spell to send Lucifer back to his cage, Crowley fucked with.

They were able instead, to send him back to the discarded vessel which they'd found years ago.

And they had it altered so it would be a better vessel for Lucifer.

So they made a bigger, better Lucifer.

Sounds like a terrible plan.

It sounds really dumb.

And Lucifer finally does start talking.

And, like, all of us thinks that this petty revenge choice instead of putting him back in the cage is really stupid.

Yeah.

It's bad when even he's saying that.

Right?

Yeah.

So.

Yeah.

Anyway.

So Sam and Dean are driving.

And while they're driving, they're discussing the fact they also found a case of another woman with the same murder six months ago.

Who?

Both of them.

Both of the victims were teachers.

And Dean's all bummed that Mary's not there or coming with them.

He's convinced something's up.

And Sam's like, no.

Hunting's a grind.

She just needs a rest.

Hunting it is.

She is.

It is a grind.

And you've gotta.

You've just gotta.

Sometimes you just gotta grind.

And so we go from there to these shiprocks, ship rocks, these shipwrecks of New England in Des Moines, where a scout master is directing kids into a van.

And so he leaves these children to go to the bathroom.

I hope there is another adult there.

I hope there's another chaperone for real.

And the power flickers.

And this man pees so fast, like he.

I don't even understand.

Like, you didn't need to go to the bathroom, sir.

Like, I know this is the second episode where I'm really commenting on the piece of the show, but this was just like.

It was fast.

It was just a forced pre trip peak.

He didn't want to have to pee on the road.

I don't know.

It just seems like he didn't need to go into that bathroom.

He should have.

He.

She could have held it, so.

But thankfully, he does wash his hands.

And then in the stalls, the doors start to go back and forth, and then everything freezes up.

Like, really freezes up.

The running water out of the sink frees up.

It's pretty cool effect, honestly.

It was.

And instead of running, he just keeps inspecting this.

I don't know.

I think I would run.

Well, you know, fight or flight or freeze.

Literally.

Sometimes.

Literally freeze.

Well, then we implied that he's attacked, and that's all we see.

Yeah.

And so we're gonna be there again, but later in the daytime.

And Sam and Dean are all fed it up, and they're talking to a professor.

And we learned that the scouts were timber troopers.

Timber troopers.

And Dean's asking if there's anything else new to the museum recently.

And it's Dr. Oh.

Daisy Ochoa is like, well, we.

You know, all this.

We all recently.

All recently unboxed this.

All these exhibits, and you should go take a look.

Yeah, there's three new exhibits there.

And Dean hits.

Hits open the EMF and it pops off.

And so Dean's just like, oh, clearly now it's not a witch.

It's a ghost.

And Sam wants to point out that it is a museum, and they are always filled with ADHD ghosts and their tethers.

And I'm just like, can they make a ghost Adderall so they can move on?

Is that all they need is something to, like, help them go through.

Through.

So, like, here's some Adderall, here's some Ritalin, and then they can focus and move on.

Just saying that's a way they can help them.

Maybe so.

Maybe so.

So we.

It seems better than what they're doing to them.

We.

Yeah, we cut and we find.

Oh, okay.

Before you're moving on, the Dean also calls a ghost chain rattlers.

And I appreciate that term for them.

Chain rattlers.

Chain rattlers.

Yep.

So we go from there to.

To the diner.

Yeah.

And so we.

Now we know where Kelly Klein is.

Yeah.

So.

And she orders orange juice.

That's all she can afford because they.

They show her, like, looking through her wallet, and she's paying cash.

So she's got no money, and she needs a small orange juice.

And this waitress.

This waitress is rude.

She is very.

Okay, first.

Okay.

She asked when she's due, and I. I feel like that's still a little intrusive.

Like, I know people ask that all the time, but it feels a little too personal.

But I would give it a pass, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because Kelly's like, I don't know.

Yeah.

So then the waitress has a commentary on life before and after kids.

And when she's, like, once her life.

When she has a kid, her life is over, but she'll love the little devil.

And then she walks away, and her eyes flash blue, and we realize that this was an angel the whole time.

Oh, no.

Yeah.

All right, so we've got Dean wandering around the museum playing with an Aztec killing knife, and he gets really excited about an Aztec ghost idea.

Yeah, I. I also enjoy the idea of Aztec ghosts.

That would have been fun.

But, no, that's not what we're doing.

Sam has found something from.

From a brigantine called the Star that Sunk in a Storm and is currently on loan from the Maritime Museum in Andover, Mass.

See, that's where it says Mass.

I'm not writing.

I just.

Anymore.

It's too long.

Yeah.

He does know something about something.

About this ship, specifically.

And he.

And Sam's given him the rundown of where this ship was from to kind of help jog his memory.

And Dean remembers that this is the ship that Gavin McLoud, Crowley's kid, was supposed to be on this ship and supposed to die on this ship.

And that's what he knows.

Gavin McLeod.

So that's a good time for us to cut from there back to Crowley's, where Lucifer is just cracking himself up over how sad Crowley is.

Yeah.

And then Crowley's not amused.

So he's going to try to make Lucifer clean the floor with his tongue.

But.

But Lucifer is still like, whatever you think.

Like, you know.

You know, Kelly's still out there with my baby.

And he's.

Crowley's like, no, no.

Sam and Dean got rid of the baby.

And Luther's like, no, I can feel it.

And Crowley's pretty upset about this information.

But in the meantime, his phone rings as Dean saying that he needs a favor, but Crowley is so pissed that the baby's alive that he is like, wtf?

And so Sam's like, I guess this isn't the best time to ask you to get in touch with Gavin for us.

And Crowley is like, fix this before it hatches, and then we can talk about Gavin.

Well, Dean does point out that technically, because they didn't hunt down Gavin the first time when.

When Crowley just let him live, that they really do, that he owes them for that, so he does need to think about that.

But Lucifer was listening the whole time.

And Lucifer then is fake bonding over them both being single fathers and wants to know when you let them date.

Oh, gosh.

So we see two women teachers loading a bunch of schoolgirls in uniforms onto a bus at the museum.

And we see a little cutaway of a locket being dropped by somebody into the pocket of one of the teachers.

Yep.

So it's like shoplifting, but it's by a ghost, so it doesn't count.

But it belongs to the ghost.

Is it shoplifting or.

I don't know.

Technically, that was in the ghost's possession, so.

But I believe the museum would still probably prosecute the teacher.

So she seals an artifact even though she doesn't know it.

And we go back to the museum at night where the boys are sitting in a dark museum with Rowena, who wants to know what's in it for her.

Yeah.

Because she's like, you still owe me for Arkansas.

And they're like, yes, yes, yes, sure.

But, you know, we need your help finding the one and only eyewitness to the star.

So, you know, still, you know, you.

It's just something you'll really like.

So I think you should help us.

But.

So we cut from there to Kelly running down an alley.

Walking down an alley first.

And then a dude is.

She has no coat on.

She is just weird.

Why is she just, like, unhoused just in the street now?

And I'm like, what the.

Why didn't you go back to your apartment and get a coat?

I don't understand what's happening here, but.

So she is now cold on the street and being followed by one angel.

And then I was like, maybe the baby keeps her warm.

Like, maybe that's happening.

I don't know.

And.

But then.

Oh, no.

There are two angels and they have angel blades.

But then a new yellow eyed angel shows a demon.

Excuse me.

A yellow eyed demon shows up.

And we know because we figured out this is Dagon.

Because we got a tease about this.

Dad, it's Dagon.

And she kills the angels and says, come with me if you.

Come with me if you want to live.

To Kelly.

Because it was funny.

So immediately I'm like, okay, I kind of like your quips.

And, you know, I also like your style.

So we go from there into a warehouse because we haven't been in one for a while.

And Kelly is upset that Dagon made the people explode.

They did.

The people did get exploded.

And she's like, that's what you're upset about, Rosemary.

And she's amused that Kelly buys into human propaganda and asked if at Sunday school, teachers taught.

Taught her that Lucifer was actually an archangel and that the in point out the angels want her dead because of her innocent child.

And she explains nature versus nurture.

Yes.

And like, it's all in the upbringing.

He could save us all.

Interesting.

She says he, but.

Except Kelly gets a gender reveal, and then Dagan offers her protection.

Yeah, they all want you dead.

I'll protect you.

Okay.

And we cut back to a bus station where a bus has arrived from Cedar Rapids, and Gavin meets up with Sam and Dean.

And he's there because they lied and told him that Crowley was ill.

But they're all being very cordial with each other, and it's very like, Gavin seems like a very nice person.

And so they show Gavin a picture of the star, which he recognizes and kind of gets excited about.

And then they're like, hey, by the way, here's your grandmother.

Yeah.

Your dad.

Your dad's.

Your dad's not dying.

Here's the ship you were supposed to die on.

Would you like to meet your grandmother?

Yeah.

It's a lot.

A lot.

And Robina is very excited because she says that Gavin looks just like her father when he was young.

So that's some familiar resemblances.

So at the Muse, Gavin goes to the museum with them, and he's talking about remembering the ship and that most of the other people on it were pretty ordinary representation of the community.

And then one of their.

But specifically notes, one of their teachers was on the shift, Mrs.

Mistress Alloway, and he's looking at all this other info, and he finds a picture in a book of.

Of the inventory of a locket that he bought for Fiona Duncan.

That was his love.

And he had to, you know, she just really wanted to go to America with him, and.

But he's confused why the locket's there if he didn't go to America.

So apparently she was going to beg to come along.

And when she was going to come meet him at his place, that's when Abaddon showed up at his place.

And up the timeline.

Right.

So Fiona mistakenly thought that he was already gone.

And so then she probably died with unfinished business and became ghost broken heart.

Yeah.

And Gavin doesn't like this.

And they look for the locket and discover it's gone.

And in the finding a that Gavin was looking at, there is something that you have to realize that her locket was placed into storage and added only to the exhibit six months prior to this episode.

Which explains why only recently this is wiki that she only recently started attacking teachers.

So that's why that explains that.

And the star was built just so was built in Glasgow, Scotland.

And the ship was big.

It was 91ft.

With this beam at 24ft, it weighed 215 tons.

But we're going to talk about another ship that's from Scotland that also weighed a lot and probably weighed more than that.

So it's time for some lore.

And for this week we're going to talk about the Queen Mary.

Oh, now in everything I've read, it seems like you're not supposed to put the the in front of it.

You're just supposed to say Queen Mary.

And I'm not going to do that because that makes my head hurt.

So I'm going to use the word the.

And I'm sorry if that offends anybody.

Not really sorry, because it sounds weird.

Not it just sounds weird because I'm not talking about the Queen talking about the ship.

So we're talking about a ship if you did not know.

And it took four years to build her and they had to widen a river for her launch.

The legend attached to her naming is that it was an accident.

The Cunard directors had planned to name her Victoria in their tradition of ending of naming their ships in an ia so Victoria would have fit that.

So when they asked King George for his blessing of the ship with a We have decided to name our new ship after England's greatest queen.

The king responded, my wife, Queen Mary, will be delighted that you are naming the ship after her.

And that is how instead of naming her Victoria, she became known as The Queen Mary.

I don't know if that's true, but I think that's cute.

And it was super luxurious with two indoor swimming pools, two cocktail bars, beauty salons, children's nurseries for all three classes.

Classes being of the ship, there's middle general and steerage.

Probably.

I don't know, I, I should know that.

But let's go.

I know there's a first and then there's two other ones.

There you go.

Yeah.

And so there's two cocktail bars, there was a music studio, a lecture hall, telephone connectivity to anywhere in the world, which is crazy on a boat during that time.

That makes my head hurt a little bit.

Outdoor paddle tennis courts, which I'm just wondering, is that ping pong?

That's probably closer to pickleball.

Yeah.

And early pickleball.

Pickleball.

And there was fancy air conditioning in a lot of places.

The ship also had a Jewish prayer room mainly as a you to the anti Semitism growing in Nazi German which is kind of like in the, in the main cabin class dining room, there was a map of the transatlantic crossing with two tracks with the.

The winter spring routes which were further south because of icebergs and the summer autumn route.

And during the crossing a small motorized model of the Queen Mary would travel along the mirror mural to show the ship's progress.

I would just be in front of that thing all day and just be like that's funny.

I like that.

Yeah, yeah.

But the fanciness of the Queen Mary is not why we are talking about her or frankly why you have ever heard of in the first place.

We know the Queen Mary because it is haunted as fuck.

And on the day the RMS Queen Mary launched, Lady Mabel Fortescue Harrison, a well known British psychic, is quoted as predicting the Queen Mary will know her greatest fame and popularity when she never sails another mile or carries another fair paying passenger.

Oh.

So is the Queen Mary haunted or is it all just one big corporate scam and I'm about to ruin something else fun for you.

Okay, so first let me say I have stayed on the Queen Mary.

I have done their haunted tour.

The scariest thing I saw were the blisters on my feet after walking up and down all the stairs.

That ship is massive.

But I saw nothing of the paranormal sort during my visit.

Oh, ghosties.

Sad, very sad.

I, I wanted them to come out and they said and so kind of like let's talk about death.

Right.

So if there's ghosts there's only going to be death to make the Ghost.

And there have been numerous deaths on the ship, as to be expected for something that was in service for as long as this was.

However, that doesn't include the first recorded death, which happened before the launch even happened, when during construction, a worker named John Brown fell to his death from a scaffold.

And he was buried at sea.

Yeah.

And that number also does not include the number of those who died during the Queen Mary's service during World War II, when soldiers were literally just dying from heat.

We know that during this period there is a burial at sea every four hours, said Wittenberg.

Apparently soldiers would also just jump off the ship when it left the dock.

And those men may have died too, or made it back to shore.

Basically, conscripted people were like, I don't

want to do this.

Bye.

And jumped off.

Right.

During the war, the ship was painted gray and became known as the Gray Ghost.

They took out everything that was unnecessary.

So it was a total of 6 miles of carpet, 220 cases of China, crystal and silver services, tapestries and paintings are all removed.

So it was really.

It's amazing if you see the size of the ship.

Just imagine how much stuff they took out in order to.

To convert this.

And she became one of the fastest troop ships in the war.

And the U boats could not catch her.

The Gray Ghost made the record for the most passengers ever transported on one vessel when they carried 15,740 soldiers and 943 crew.

So a total of 16,683 people on one fucking boat at one time.

And that.

Churchill would hitch rides on her and listed on the passengers as Colonel Warden.

He even signed the D Day declaration on board.

So he was on there quite a bit.

The Queen Mary covered over 600,000 miles across the world's oceans by the end of the war, carrying more than 800,000 troops.

The one story about her wartime life that would definitely influence the haunting legends happened when Queen Mary sank one of her escort ships, the HMS Curacawa.

It's C U R A C O A. I'm just saying, like, that's how I pronounce the drink curacao.

Yeah.

So 338 lives were lost.

And the cap.

What happened was the captain.

What happened was, is the captain of each ship thought they had the right of way.

The Queen Mary was moving in an evasive zigzag pattern in order to keep the U boats from getting her.

And Commodore Sir Cyril Gordon Illingworth, commanding Queen Mary maintained the zigzag pattern pattern, anticipating that the cruiser was going to alter its course.

However, Captain John Wilford Boutwood of the Curacao held fast to the liner's mean course, prioritizing the fence of the liner against potential enemy aircraft.

So that's what he was like, well, this is my mission, so I'm going to stick to that.

So the Queen Mary sliced it in half and, but it didn't stop due the risk of U boat attacks, it was told stop for nothing.

So they sliced through this cruiser and kept going.

Boats were later sent to conduct a rescue, but only 101 crew members survived.

And to top it all off, it was kept secret until after the war.

Everyone involved was sworn to secrecy.

After the war there was a trial and the blame was totally put on Curacao's officers.

However, that was appealed and modified so 2/3 went to them and one third went to Cunard.

So the most infamous death is probably that of Jog Petter, a young quote unquote greaser who was caught at a watertight door, door number 13.

Wait, a greaser was caught in door number 13?

Yes.

Let's go with it.

Okay, go ahead.

Yeah.

So those are kind of an overview of the deaths, but I want you to remember no official deaths have ever been recorded in either of the first, the pools.

There's a first class and a second class pool and there are no reports of there ever being dismembered bodies.

Okay.

So keep that in mind as we talk about the ghosts.

According to usghostadventures.com there are said to be up to 150 ghosts on the ship.

One of that is said to be that of John Petter, the bisected crew member.

After his death.

There have been reports of frightened guard dog shadow figures, metallic sounds like a door slamming shut, and apparitions which are said to match old photographs of John Petter.

Okay.

At the front of the ship, the side of the collision with the Curacao.

Witnesses have reported hearing sounds like metal crushing, frantic banging against the hull, men screaming, and the unmistakable sound of rushing water.

The engine room is said to have an apparition of a man who fades into the metal of the pipes.

People have said that sounds appear to follow them around.

There have also been cold spots reported.

And the engine room is just creepy because it's a giant fucking engine room and things like you're.

It's really dark and there's just really big machinery all around you and pipes and things that I don't know what the.

They do in, like the big, big knobby turn.

Things that you're not supposed to turn and like doors, Like a place you want to touch everything but you can't touch because you know it's all hot and you know, even if it's just sitting there, it's not doing anything that.

Yeah, so I can't imagine what it was like when it was actually running as an engine.

So.

So it's natural that it just sounds like it's haunted.

And frankly, like even if you're on a regular cruise ship now and you go down to the engine room, like those all kind of feel like they're haunting.

Creepy.

Yeah.

So up at the bridge, people.

Dark.

It's dark and industrial and damp and hot and.

And just noises you don't know, Right?

Yeah, lots of ding, ding, ding.

So up at the bridge, people have seen apparitions of ship officers which appear to appear briefly, then they dissolve into the mist.

So the pools have had a ton of reported activity, although as I said earlier, nobody was reported to ever having died in either.

One of the most famous ghosts is a little girl who haunts the pool area.

She is known as Jackie.

We came into the pool area and I heard giggling, the sound of a little girl playing in the area.

And at that point I noticed there was splashing, said Kathy Love, a maintenance supervisor on the ship.

The splashing stopped, the giggling continued, and we observed the wet footprints of a small child walking across the locker room.

I know that I saw what I saw.

I saw what I saw.

I'm not sure exactly why I saw it, but I know it was there there Also, the psychic Peter James has recordings of a 10 minute conversation with Jackie.

Some psychics have suggest long conversation.

Yeah, it's pretty long.

You can go on YouTube and listen to it.

This also a really popular thing to do, YouTube videos on the Queen Mary.

It's really popular, yeah.

So some psychics have suggested that the pools are vortexes for Spirits.

And because when you look at them, at least the ones that I.

The one that I was.

One of them is closed off.

One of them you could only see for a few minutes.

And it was.

You could only see it because, like, the floor is caving in.

And so they're just like.

Like, they only let a few people go out of time.

And so I'm like, I would just.

I think that's where the energy is coming from, because I was terrified I was going to fall through the floor.

And so maybe that's what's created the vortex.

Right.

It's just all people are like, please don't let me fall through this floor.

But their own life is flashing before their eyes, and they're freaking have.

Creating a weird moment.

But again, also dark, haunted.

Empty swimming pools always look haunted.

I feel like they do.

I don't.

There's just something about an empty swimming pool.

And so there also is the ghost haunting of Sir Winston's restaurant.

There's a man there known as the dude, but not Lebowski Dude.

This spirit is described as appearing in a top hat and tails with slick back hair.

I really want you to see this one.

He's most often seen near the bar where he reportedly has cleared his throat to get attention before vanishing into a nearby wall, which I just think that's a cheeky ghost, and I like it.

See me.

And then, bye, bye.

It's out.

And he's like, did you see me or not?

Look at me.

Okay, Bye.

And speaking of Sir Winston, people have seen Winston Churchill's ghosts near his private quarters and on the promenade on the sun and sports decks.

And the smell of cigar smoke is often reported near his room.

And on the inside M deck, people have reported seeing shadow people everywhere.

They look like, well, shadow people.

Also, there are ghost cats.

I'm very sad I did not get to see one of those.

No.

Ghost cats.

Ghost cats.

The changing rooms near the first and third class pools.

Or that sounds right.

But so basically because near the pools are noted for very numerous EVPs featuring Meow and ghosts.

And people have guests, not ghosts.

Guests have reported sensations of something invisible brushing up against their legs.

Now, the room that is hyped as the Most haunted is B340.

And it's quite possible the haunting in that room is entirely due to Disney.

And to understand that, we're going to have to talk about what happened to Queen Mary after she retired from being a cruise liner.

Then it opens as an aquarium museum that was curated by Jacques Cousteau.

And that lasted only a few years due to apparently poor treatment of the sea life and not Jacques Cousteau, which is very upsetting.

Like, I don't want to know.

I was one of those things.

It was like I just saw that

sentence, like the next thing.

I'm not.

I'm not diving into that one any further.

I don't know.

Pun intended.

No punning intended.

And apparently there was also mismanagement of funds continue to change hands.

Pacific Southwest Airlines owned it, then Hyatt and then the rather Corporation.

And at first they didn't know what they were going to do with the ship.

So this would be on Long Beach.

Right.

And that would never happen.

But what did happen was the uptick of ghost stories about the ship recognizing a cash cow.

Disney offered the first ghost tours.

They created this sick tour called Haunted Passages, which included a tour brochure that had a small child being drugged down a hallway by a ghost.

That's something.

That is something to put on a brochure and it makes me want to go.

So from a San Francisco Gate article.

The tour took you to areas where people were murdered, crushed, drowned or otherwise died during passage, said Todd James Pierce, hosted the DHI podcast and author of several books on Disney.

That's so crazy.

Yeah, I remember I went.

I swear I saw it as a kid and I'm trying.

It would have been late 80s, early 90s.

So I'm trying to piece timeline together.

Yeah.

So stop on that tour was B340 and then unused room where Disney installed Haunted Mansion style effects.

And when you were in the room, floorboards would creak, faucets would turn on, disembodied voices would sound and spooky things would appear in mirrors.

The Haunted Passages tour was an attempt to more formally and theatrically build on some of the ghost legends related to the ship.

Pierce explained the tourist was.

The tour was promoted with the ghostly image of John Patter's translucent body.

A young engineer crush on the ship still standing in the boiler room.

Much in the way that ghosts in the Haunted Mansion appear as effective lighting in a well placed glass.

Disney Ditchy.

Y' all can't see me if you're just listening to this.

My jaw is like, like on the floor.

Yeah, I had no idea about any of this.

If I did.

If I didn't know this, I forgot it.

And I don't think I. I don't think I knew this.

Disney.

You just went there a couple years ago.

Yeah.

So.

And.

But my books that.

That I bought there during this are in boxes.

So.

And maybe if people think something is haunted enough, then it becomes haunted.

The paranormal researcher Greg Newkirk said even though the haunted attraction at the Queen Mary is long gone, the memories remain.

Over time, these memories can turn into legends, stripping away the fictional origins, one retelling at a time, and eventually legends can turn into actual hauntings because there are very specific stories that are being repeated over and over again, and people are concentrating on these stories, and maybe that's enough to create these entities or hauntings.

Right.

That's what's drawing up.

This is all these people almost.

Yeah.

So that's one possibility.

The.

The current B340 is decorated with scary pics and a Ouija board to hype it up even more.

Of course.

Yes.

And the ship, obviously is.

The ship is now owned by the city of Long beach and City of Long beach, and it offers numerous paranormal tours and now even has Jackie Spirit Shop in the third class dining lounge where you can buy spooky items like Mad Libs and hand soap.

And those products are available online.

I would like to say the idea for Port Disney was not entirely abandoned.

And that park notably features a model of the Queen Mary.

There is a replica of the Queen Mary in Tokyo.

That's so wild.

The whole port Tokyo Disney Sea itself is a mind.

It is a whole bunch of different islands, and it's all at sea.

And now I just want to go to.

Now I want to go to Tokyo Disney and go to the Queen Mary on.

And I, I. Oh, there's a Tower of Terror on, on, on, on.

On that island.

On the Queen Mary.

Whoa.

Yeah.

Okay.

So that's the story of the Queen Mary, the other haunted Scottish ship.

And they do a tattoo in rockabilly festival there, too.

Yes, there.

They've done a lot of things like that there.

One of my friends who's very rockabilly was like, that's the only place she would stay, which, like, when I'm in California, I only stay at the Queen Mary.

But it's needed so much.

It needs a lot of work.

It's.

They need to put.

It's not.

It's not going to be safe for long.

They really need to throw some money into it.

And that's not just, you know, that's what I read.

So.

But it's still.

And it's still amazing.

If you haven't been there.

I would highly.

It's really to see anything that man made that was that huge and something that cast.

There's a lot of history attached to it.

Yeah.

And that had anything like that had that many people on it.

If you believe.

You know, think about energy at all.

If you think that has anything to do with hauntings.

And that seems like a pretty.

Just all that in leftover.

Right.

I don't know.

So it's.

It carries.

There is definitely a feeling on the ship whether or not that feel.

I didn't feel any ghost feelings.

But there's definitely that weight of history and the weight of some of somewhat of the tragedy but also just kind of how impressive it is.

Yeah.

So recommend going because who knows how long is going to be.

Going to be allowed to be on float.

You're going to be allowed to be on board it.

Just saying.

So.

Yeah.

All right.

So we're gonna go to a Motel

with Mr. Catch and Mary and he's like, oh, we should totally go have a drink.

And he's like.

She shakes him down and then he's like, you just need to disengage from your children, Mom.

And she's like.

He's like, yeah, work needs to come first.

And she's like, nothing comes before family.

Mr. Catch might have just said the wrong thing.

Yeah.

He tells her the family makes her softer and we sure weaker and just punch him in the nuts, Mary.

Then he starts in on that hunting.

Mary is the best Mary.

And it scares her.

And once again I just say punch him in the nuts, Mary.

Yes.

And so she walks off.

But back at the museum, Sam and Dean are asking Dr. Ochoa what happened to the missing locket it.

And also btw, was there a school tour recently?

She's like, yeah, I don't know about that locket.

It should be there.

And also the Pembroke Day school for girls was just here and they're like godamn it.

So they go to.

Well, we cut to two teachers living.

We cut to the most awesome vampire academy ever.

I don't know what.

What children go to the school but clearly only vampires can go here.

So these two teachers that we met earlier from the bus Are sitting in front of this fireplace in like two leather chairs.

Gryffindor common room.

They have no desk.

They're just like grading papers in their laps.

They don't even have books to like balance these papers on.

In like, in like leather armchairs.

Sipping glass of.

Discussing.

Having a glass of wine.

Well, yeah, well, they want to get drunk first.

They were drinking.

They weren't.

They were.

Not to be clear, they weren't grading while drunk.

Drunk.

They were discussing.

They're about to get hammered.

And you know, they.

You know, they grade while drunk all the time.

What all teachers do.

So the lights start flickering and that apparently happens there all the time.

So one of them goes to check the breaker.

Or we see another fireplace that's lit.

What the is this place?

I don't know.

But we're starting to get the noises.

We're starting to get the cold.

One teacher is trying to like close a window that's got a breeze, but the windows closed.

It's a whole thing.

Thing.

But we see a.

We finally see our ghost.

And it is in a cloak with a big hood on it.

And it attacks the teacher and one of the teachers and the other one sees this happening and closes the door.

Which, I mean, I did say.

She's just like, bam.

Like, sorry, no one's.

No one's gonna save you.

Save myself.

And so I'm like, damn.

But as that happens, Sam and Dean run in and have their rock salt loaded shotgun to shoot the ghost ghost.

And Gavin and Rowena are there with them to help determine if this actually is Fiona.

So, all right, so Gavin's not like super stoked on this, but he sits down and he is going to get ready and he starts reading this spell and there's like candles and stuff.

And he calls out, he does the spell, but then he just calls out to her and we get a breeze.

And the ghost Gavin.

Yeah.

And then there's a water logged ghost ghost who transforms herself into Fiona.

And this also like I.

Did you think of Shrek this whole time

backwards?

Yeah, it's a little Shreky.

And she's upset though.

And she's like, you abandoned me.

I came to you.

You weren't there.

And then.

And he's trying to explain, but she's like, then I got on the ship

and you don't want to know what happened.

The.

That crew.

Me up on that ship you left me on.

And she.

And she.

And.

And none of the passengers helped her.

And her teacher said she deserved it for being a hussy.

And so fuck Mrs. Alloway.

But apparently that is also what Fiona has decided to do when she said, fuck all you teachers.

I blame all of you.

You're all going down.

Seems like a big.

A broad brush to paint with.

But, yes, she has.

She has a grudge.

She has decided she is going to have vengeance on the this.

So Gavin is going to go the boys and was like, wants to talk about what's went.

And just.

She's just a vengeful spirit now.

And they're like, well, her bones are going to be at the bottom of the Atlantic, so we need to find that locket.

And Gavin's just super upset.

He's like, but we can't bring back the people that she killed.

And this.

This just sucks.

But Sam and Dean are like, actually about that.

If she never died a horrible death death, then none of this would have happened.

And Romina's like, oh, tampering with time again.

Here we go.

So everybody's not stoked on this, but basically they're saying they need to set things right and undo Abaddon, yanking Gavin from his timeline so that things go back to how they should have been, which would be that Gavin would have died with or without Fiona.

Either way, he would have died on the ship and she wouldn't be sad

or, yeah, she will be bitter because she will not have known what happened to him.

So because they're on, they're both going to die on the ship together.

So Gavin's on board with this plan, but Crowley is not.

And he has just appeared.

And he tries.

Yeah, and he tries to tip Gavin with his modern life and hooters, but Gavin just called him to say goodbye.

Yeah, he's like, look, I made up my mind.

That's it.

And Romaine is like, oh, let him go.

He's not like us.

He believes in things, and he's doing what he believes is right.

Okay, so Rowena freezes Crowley so he can't stop him.

And they leave poor Mark Shepard in this unfortunate position of having his arm raised.

And I really hope they didn't have to repeat this scene over and over again, because I just kept thinking about, like, oh, my God, your arm has to suck.

Holding it up in that position.

Yeah.

Yep.

So we go to the bunker with Sam and Dean and Gavin, and Sam does a spell where he cuts Gavin's hand and they bleed.

And he's doing the sigil on the wall, and they're trying to spell that their grandfather and Abaddon did.

And.

But it's been Tweaked by Rowena.

So.

So it's a time travel spell that blood calls for blood.

So it doesn't make.

It is probably not that hard to be like, he's gonna call to yourself.

So after Sam paints the sigil on the wall, they say goodbye.

And Sam thanks him for being a good person.

Yeah, basically.

And they're all kind of teared up.

And Fiona appears and they both glow and disappear.

Yeah.

Together.

So after that's done, Sam, we go to the next day where Raptor.

That happens.

I really quite sure what the time passage is there.

But Sam is searching for the murders and they didn't happen.

And the teachers are alive.

But Sam and Dean remember everything that happened.

Yeah.

And guess who shows up but Mary.

And she's got bags of burgers and beer.

And Dan's all bummed about how long it's been.

And she lies again and says she's been jogging and doing tai chi and working on meditation and melting Rougarou brains.

So we get some honesty in there and.

Yeah.

And she confesses.

Yeah.

She tells them she's been working with the British Men of Letters.

The bmol, the bimols.

I was trying to get an acronym for them.

Just really wasn't working.

It doesn't work.

Work.

So.

And then Sam's like, do you remember about my feet?

And my forefoot?

My foot.

Look at it.

They burned my foot.

And she's like, but they're doing good work and there's stuff to learn for them.

And Dean's like, look at my face.

Look at my face, Mary.

And Sam's like, we've got our own toolkit, and that's fine.

And also, remember my feet.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And we don't trust them.

Period.

Period.

And so Dean's like, so where does this leave us?

And she's like, same as always.

We're family.

I just need you to hear me out.

No.

You tried that, Mary.

So we're gonna go to a bus station.

Like, why is Rowena at a bus station?

So weird.

And she's drinking out of a thermos.

And, I mean, she looks like she fits in there.

Like, she looks like she should be.

But, like, why?

Why are you not.

What?

I don't know.

I guess I can't see Rowena.

An airport, like, sitting at.

Sitting out, waiting for the gate agents, waiting for her number to board.

Not waiting for travel.

So Crowley appears, and he's mad.

And he's like, you did this on purpose.

You sent away my grandson, or your great own grandson for Very spiteful reasons.

And he wants to know why.

And she's like, look, I want you to remember.

We get a flashback.

Something I kind of forgotten candidly remember, Oscar.

Yes.

She was forced to kill her.

The son she liked better than Crowley.

Ouch.

Oscar.

Yes.

Is our pitter patter.

Blood splatter.

We get a full scene of her killing him by stabbing him in the neck.

It's very distressing.

And.

Yeah.

And so he's like, all that dribble about doing the right thing.

She's like, I got payback.

And now I get to watch you suffer the loss of a child.

Child.

It was the right thing for her.

And who is better to crush Crowley shoveled heart than Rowena?

So.

Wow.

Yeah.

So she did get something out of it.

So we don't.

I mean, in the whole.

The whole complicated.

What did.

Did Rowena ever really like Gavin?

Was that all just a plot?

Just all so she could destroy Crowley?

Tavi.

But.

So then she for some reason gets on a bus.

Yeah.

And I'm just really gonna hire.

But get off the bus.

Are gonna, you know, you better surf.

Better get a car.

Well, she might not want to drive.

I don't know.

I see her driving.

I don't know.

Well, Play With Fire by Rolling Stones kicks in.

And we do kind of a bunch of a shoot around of all the things.

It's like a montage.

Yeah.

We got Lucifer and his chained up in his chair.

We've got Mary talking to Sam and Dean.

We got Crowley at the bus station, Dagon and Kelly leaving the warehouse.

And then at the very end, we get Lucifer calling out to Dagon.

Oh, what's gonna happen?

I don't know.

Oh.

So before we talk about that, are there any teachers to talk about casting cows.

Couch.

It's the casting couch.

Were they on that show that time with that guy?

La la la la la la la la la la la la.

Yeah, we've got a couple of folks on our cast to talk about.

I'm gonna start with Dagon, though, played by Aln.

She's been in episodes of Ugly Betty, Law and Order, svu, Blue Bloods, New is Jackie and Orange is the New Black.

She is reoccurring character named Carly on the series Billions.

She is Alice in the series Agatha all Day.

Or no, what is it Agatha All.

Yeah.

What is that show?

Was it Agatha all Year?

Something that one.

And the Agatha all Along.

Sorry.

Agatha all Along.

Oh, my God.

Why can I not remember?

And then she's one of the best shows that came out last Year.

Okay.

And then she's Idra in the series the Diplomat.

Then we have one of our teachers was named Elizabeth.

The real name is Susie Lee.

She's been episodes of French Frequency, Million Little Things, and the good Doctor, our scout leader was played by Colby Wilson.

Was a pretty young.

It's kind of sad, but he.

Before that he was in episodes of Smallville, Psych, Fringe, Lucifer, Arrow, Travelers, and Maid and was in she's the man movie.

Anyways, Dr. Daisy Ochoa was played by Karina Akison and she's been episodes of Lucifer, Wayward Pines, Arrow, the last of us murdered a small town hunt tracker and the Hunting Party.

She's also done a lot of Christmas Hallmark.

Our waitress angel was played by Jennifer Kitchen.

And then, yeah, that's our main ones that we've got from this episode.

So there we go.

Yeah.

Cool.

Cool.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So what did you think?

I'm glad that Mary's finally, like, facing down the situation of her, like, splitting her time with Men of Letters and Sam and Dean.

British Men of Letters and Sam and Dean.

I think that's important.

I thought it was a kind of a cool wrap up to at least, like, go back and get the backstory.

Like, kind of close the loop on Gavin and the rest of it.

I'm.

You know, the storyline with the Lucifer and Crowley is a little painful, but that's what I got.

Yeah.

I mean, it's hard to watch characters do things you think are stupid and you're just like, no.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

No, but I enjoy the McLeod family and getting all three of them together.

And the Rowena double cross is so classic Rowena, but in a way that you didn't see it coming.

And, you know, it just.

I really appreciate.

I really, I appreciate when she's sneaky and when, you know, when it kind of smacks you upside the head.

You didn't realize, like, oh, that's really the whole reason that she did that.

Even though, like, we all kind of bought in that she was here for Gavin.

But in the end, that also means that Gavin thought his grandmother was there for her.

There was a scene that was cut out from them where Rowena was, like, telling Gavin something about, like, how.

I forget what it was.

It was something about how, like, she always.

How she abandoned Fergus when he was 8 and kind of goes into that story and he.

And he kind of learned what a shitty, shitty mother she was.

And so that got cut out.

Which is interesting, I think.

Would have been.

Would have made the double cross a little.

A little.

But I always.

I think keeping it out made it hurt more because then you didn't.

Like, you never get to see Gavin have a bad view of her.

Yeah.

But I mean, that also.

Is that better?

I don't know.

Just.

He just met your grandmother for the first time, and you.

I mean, you're not.

You don't have a relationship or history.

Shouldn't you just, like.

Is it better to just have, like, a semi positive view and go back in time and die?

I don't know.

I think so.

I mean, is she all that, Like, I also ask, like.

Yeah, I believe she was all in on, like, the revenge thing, but would she.

I think she was also truthful when she said, he's not.

Not like us.

Yeah.

That wasn't false.

Yeah.

We don't really know how she felt about.

About him personally.

She knew her benefit.

The benefit of how she could hurt Crowley.

But I don't know if she necessarily had a feeling about Gavin.

I think she did think that he wasn't like.

Yeah.

And I don't think this is what Sam.

I don't think Sam and Dean meant it, like, meant it in that way.

And they probably.

Like, what?

Like.

Oh, you know, like.

But anyways, so I did appreciate that.

And I.

Yes.

I. I kind of get bored of.

Of Crowley trying to go after Lucifer in this way.

Because, you know, it's like, babe, you could have won.

You had him.

Oh, him going to the cage is you winning.

You understand that?

No, you don't.

It's not about the pride thing, sweetie.

Like, hubris is going to be your downfall.

He don't need to lick the floor.

He doesn't.

Despite him.

Oh, okay.

We're gonna do this again, aren't we?

You never learn, do you?

Never.

Because I'm not spoiling anything.

And it's never gonna end well for Crowley when he does this.

Oh, I can't imagine it ending well.

No, he doesn't learn lessons.

All right.

Okay.

So Crowley will never learn his lesson on that.

Cheers.

Jerk.

Carrot.

Devil's Trap podcast is a Don't get it production.

Meow.

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Die that's where I'm going to go when I die When I die and they lay me I'm going to go to the place that.