Faithful on the Clock is a podcast with the mission of getting your work and faith aligned. We want you to understand Who you're serving and why so you can get more joy and legacy from every minute spent on the clock. Thanks for joining us and taking this step toward a more fulfilling job and relationship with God!

Want to join us on social media?

We'd love to have you stay up-to-date with the show on all our platforms!

Threads

Bluesky

Facebook

Pinterest

Instagram

LinkedIn

YouTube

In this episode...

Building From the Ashes of Negative Life Experiences With Laurette Willis

https://faithfulontheclock.com/building-from-the-ashes-of-negative-life-experiences-with-laurette-willis

Pain and mistakes? Dr. Laurette Willis joins us in Episode 150 of Faithful on the Clock to show how they can become a foundation for serving God.

Timestamps:

[00:04] - Intro

[00:45] - Laurette’s career background

[04:50] - Laurette’s life background

[10:53] - How Laurette’s struggles showed up at work

[17:07] - What to look for in others who might be struggling

[27:25] - The difficulty of asking for help as a high performer

[31:05] - The difficulty of asking for help even when not a high performer; addressing self talk

[38:51] - Addressing the negative thoughts we might have about God

[49:51] - Laurette’s ventures and offerings

[53:11] - Whether Laurette would have changed anything in her past

[60:59] - Prayer

[64:11] - Outro/What’s coming up next

Key takeaways:

1. Pain can become purpose when surrendered to God. God often uses our deepest wounds as the starting point for ministry and service. Willis’ ministries were built from her own experiences with trauma, addiction, and emotional eating. Instead of hiding the past, she turned it into a platform to help others heal.
2. Coping mechanisms often mask deeper emotional wounds. People may appear successful or high-performing at work while quietly struggling with destructive coping habits. The real issue usually isn’t the behavior—it’s the unresolved emotional pain underneath.
3. High performers often struggle to admit they need help. For people whose identity is tied to achievement, admitting weakness or asking for help can feel terrifying. This fear can create a dangerous cycle of striving harder, hiding struggles, increasing stress, and deepening dependence on coping mechanisms. Healing often begins with surrender—acknowledging that you cannot fix everything through performance alone.
4. Struggling coworkers are often identified by behavior, not performance. Someone may still be hitting quotas and performing well professionally while quietly suffering. Warning signs are often relational rather than productivity-based: emotional distance, withdrawing, wearing a mask, and pushing people away. Compassionate connection — simply letting someone know they are seen and cared for—can make a profound difference.
5. The battle often begins with our self-talk. Willis explains that negative internal dialogue shapes behavior and outcomes. Self-talk → beliefs → attitude → feelings → actions → results. If someone wants different results, the change must begin at the level of thought patterns.
6. Renewing the mind changes both spiritual and neurological pathways. Through neuroscience and Scripture, Willis describes how people can retrain their thinking. By replacing destructive thoughts with truth, individuals can literally reshape neural pathways and create healthier emotional responses. “Take every thought captive.” (2 Corinthians 10:4–5)
7. Healing requires changing how we see both ourselves and God. Many people carry distorted beliefs: “God loves others but not me.”; “I’ve made too many mistakes.”; “I’m not worthy of grace.” True transformation requires correcting both negative beliefs about ourselves and false assumptions about God’s character.
8. Slowing down is essential to spiritual clarity. Constant busyness can block emotional and spiritual awareness. Simple moments of stillness—pausing, noticing small joys, or sitting quietly with God—create space for reflection, prayer, and healing.
9. Freedom often begins when someone feels safe enough to be honest. People struggling with addiction or shame may desperately want help but feel unable to admit it. What helps most often is non-judgmental listening, simple invitations to connect, and small acts of compassion. Even one supportive person can help break the cycle.
10. Your past does not disqualify you — it can become the foundation for good. You don’t have to erase your past mistakes. You can build something meaningful from them. What once looked like failure can become the very thing God uses to help others.

• Meditation Kit
• Christian Weight Loss Kit
• Personal Transformation Coaching

CTAs:

1. If there’s something in your past you wish you could erase, consider this: What if the very thing you’re most ashamed of could someday become the thing that helps someone else heal?
2. Most people who are struggling don’t show it in obvious ways. They keep performing or producing. Look past the performance for subtle signs of trouble — both in yourself and in the people around you.
3. Pay attention to one sentence you repeat to yourself when things get hard. Then ask: Is that voice truth, or is it something that’s been shaping my choices without me realizing it?

What’s coming up next:

What does it take to communicate a message powerfully for God? Episode 151 of Faithful on the Clock welcomes guest Danny Brassell to equip you.

Support the show!

Visit the Faithful on the Clock Patreon page to choose a tier plan and become a supporting member. You'll gain access to goodies like early episode access, newsletters, and more based on the plan that's right for you.

patreon.com/faithfulontheclock

Give a one-off tip or donation on our Captivate support page. You can become a member there with the same great tier options you'll find at Patreon, too.

Support Faithful on the Clock

Visit our sister site! Faithfulonthclock.com features additional free, free-with-registration, and paid access content to grow your faith, including

1. social media archives,
2. previously published faith-based articles,
3. original blogs,
4. inspirational videos,
5. episode teasers and replays
6. exclusive faith-based essays and articles,
7. exclusive videos
8. exclusive audio
9. exclusive in-depth devotionals.

Share the show! Like these episodes? Share them on social media, in texts or emails, or in person.

[Thibodeaux]

Hey, there, listeners. I’m your host, Wanda Thibodeaux, and this is Faithful on the Clock, the podcast for Christian professionals where every pencil gets sharpened to a pointy tip to get your faith and work aligned. If you’ve got any stuff in your past that’s held you back or made you feel disqualified in the workplace, today’s episode might very well break open some doors for you. I’m talking with guest Laurette Willis about how accepting Jesus turned her pain into business-based ministry, and what all of us can do to rise from the ashes with our truth as a new work foundation. Let’s jump in.

[Thibodeaux]

Well, hello everybody, and welcome to another episode of Faithful on the Clock. Today, I'm talking with the founder of Weightloss Without Willpower, Dr Laurette Willis. The author of multiple health and fitness books, Laurette provides online fitness training through Praise Moves Fitness Ministry. As a personal transformation coach, she uses neuroscience principles and techniques based on Scripture to help women renew their minds for improved wellbeing. Now, Laurette is not here today to make you get on a treadmill or to promote a certain look. Okay, so you don't have to worry about that. She is here today because all of her business ventures and her ministry is built on her past negative experiences. We're gonna talk a little bit today about how she transformed what she went through into something really positive for God. So, Laurette, welcome to the show. I appreciate you being here.

[Willis]

Thank you so much, Wanda. It is a blessing to be here, and I'm very much looking forward to our speaking today and sharing.

[Thibodeaux]

Well, just to get us started, I always like to, you know, give the guest an opportunity to just — to tell who they are, tell a little bit about their work. So, tell us a little bit about your background and who you are.

[Willis]

Well, I had always wanted to be an actor, when I was knee high to a grasshopper. It's from a small child growing up on Long Island. It's — I always wanted to entertain. And it's interesting, the word entertainment comes from a Latin word that means to serve. So, I always wanted to serve, serve God, serve man, serve people. And for many years, that's what I did in — in acting. And then even after I turned my life over to the Lord, I continued with writing, directing as a playwright, and I was known as the woman of 101 voices. I did the Betty Boop Show off broadway. I certainly did. I did a lot of wacky voices, a lot of wacky things in my BC days. And days is D, A, Z, E. It was — BC days. But since then, one thing I really enjoy is empowering women to lose excess weight, inside, outside, emotionally, mentally, and also physically, and be all the Lord's called them to be. And that's also with our fitness ministry, Praise Moves, which we've had for over 20 years. It's a fitness ministry, the Christian alternative to yoga. I'm very careful to let people know it's not Christian yoga. That's an oxymoron, like a Christian Buddhist or Christian Hindu. No such thing. But it's a Christ centered alternative. I was involved in yoga and New Age spirituality, metaphysics and all of that for 22 years, from the ages of seven till I was 29. And so, to have a Christ-centered alternative was very important. And also the Weightloss Without Willpower. Coming from my own experiences of being an emotional eater from the age of — of six. But with Praise Moves, we have hundreds of Praise Moves instructors, fitness ministers, women and men, ages 18 to 80s. All over the world, we have free classes. We have online classes. I'm just amazed how the Lord can take any negative in your life, and when you hand it over to Him, just surrender it to Him. He can turn it around and make it a platform of health and healing for others.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah, and I really love that you are, like, bringing the — like, the physical aspects into this. Because I think we had talked a little bit in our preinterview about how, like, there's so much somatic work being done right now, and people just really opening up to the idea that the body and the mind really are connected. And so, that can be really healing for people to go ahead and just whether it's yoga or something else — like, just getting the body connected again, and like, really connecting to who you are physically, whether it's, you know, just going out for walks, whatever it is,. But that can be a source of restoration. So, I absolutely see what you're doing.

But I do want to come back to a little bit you had mentioned, you know, your own experience. So, I wonder if you can give us a little bit about the background. You know, you had mentioned the emotional eating, but just give us a little bit about your backstory and kind of what led to all of this.

[Willis]

Well, grew up on Long Island outside of New York City, and everything looked just beautiful on the outside. My parents were both attorneys. They met at the Bar Review course at law school, and my dad had his own practice. He was also a judge. My mother was the first woman assistant district attorney on Long Island. She also taught at the local university. She was Mensa, you know, just a brilliant person. And she didn't even want to be Mensa. But my my dad was like, “You're brilliant. You should apply for Mensa. It's like, you're wasting your education, if you —” — she just wanted to be home with me. That's what she wanted. I was their only child, and that's what she wanted to do. But he said, “Oh, you're wasting your education.” So, you know, she did a lot of these external things, a lot of these out of the home things, and — and it wasn't a happy, you know, a happy time for her. She was also, sadly, became an alcoholic, was diagnosed schizophrenic. My mother had three nervous breakdowns when I was growing up. My dad was an emotional eater also, and a rage-aholic. So, there was a lot of turmoil, trauma going on inside the home. And as a result, when I was six years old, I found food, overeating, under-feeling, stuffing the emotions down. At the age of six, I could numb myself sufficiently to be able to survive the emotional trauma that I felt. And I remember just sensing being [extended “ne” sound]. Just like a — on — on, you know, when you — when you hear something going, it's not working, you know, and there's like, this kind of, this hum, just [extended “ne” sound]. That's how I felt. I even remember saying my dad once, “I've never been happy and I've never been sad.” And he was like, “Of course you've been happy. Of course!”, you know. And I had so convinced myself just not to — to feel, you know what it was, Wanda, I felt empty. I felt empty on the inside. Not like when I was a little bitty, and I — I felt very close to the Lord when I was little, like ages three and a half to six. I used to have visions of the Lord, and I would hear His voice, and I would tell Him jokes, because I thought “Your job is so hard you need a good laugh.” Just like a child.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Willis]

You know, that's just how I how I felt. And I — I had a close relationship with the Lord until that age of accountability. I was six years old, and the way I described it was, there was a wall that came up. I suddenly felt this distance. You know, Paul talks about it in Scripture about “sin revived, and I died,” that age of — of accountability. And had someone told me at that time that I could have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, had told me about Romans, 10: 9 and 10, that if you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart, God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved, made whole, for with the heart, one believes unto right standing with God, with the mouth, confession is made unto salvation, that wholeness. And I've been blessed to lead children, ages — gracious, even three and a half, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and adults — to — to the Lord. They're never too young to understand about coming to the Lord. So, I encourage our — our viewer, our listener, to — to get a — a picture Bible for the child in your life, if they're your own children, grandchildren, nieces, nephews, kid in the neighborhood, and share with them about the historical accounts in the Bible. I don't like to say stories, because it sounds make-believe, like they're —

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah, yeah.

[Willis]

— but the historical accounts. Because that's — Wanda, that's what I did. I would open up the — the Bible that I had with all the pictures, even before I could read, and I would tell what was happening in those historical accounts to my little stuffed animals, preaching.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Willis]

His Word will not return void.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah. I love that you say that, though. And I can't even remember the name of it now, but you know, I used to go down into my mom's basement, and we had a record player there and but we — she had the — this old LP set, and it was like Bible stories, you know, that had been recorded. But the awesome thing about this is that it had, like, not a pamphlet, but it was like a — like a comic, almost, that went with it. So, you could read, you could listen and read along with it. And I mentioned that because, you know, when you're a kid, like, you know, you can go to church and sit in the pew and you don't understand anything. Like, because it's so, like — like, when you're a kid, it's so above your head, right? But I remembered listening to that stuff in my mom's basement, and so it kind of stuck with me. So, when I started having my own issues, you know, like, you said, you had kind of a hard time. That's kind of like, it was — it was always already in the back of my head, because I had done those simple things. I knew the stories. You know, my parents hadn't really taught them to me that way, but I knew them. And so, I had that connection with God. I just didn't know it. You know what I mean? And — but I can totally relate to what you said about, like, the wall going up. I remember, like, so many times, you know, like, you'd go — I would go into a church service, and it would be like, there's the altar. The glass is in front of the altar. I can't get past it. I can see everything that's going on, but I can't get there. That was the feeling that I had. And so, I mean, as you can probably know from your own experience, like, that's just, like, the worst feeling, to feel like you're on the other side of the wall.

So, the other thing that I wanted to say is that, you know, you can have that, like, child understanding of God and connect to that. But obviously, you know when you have experiences like you and I have, that doesn't just stop in childhood. It carries over into the adult life, carries over into our work, which is one of the reasons you are here on the show today, right? So, I want to know a little bit about how did that influence your work in the beginning, like, I think in the preinterview, you had said, like, you were a functional alcoholic. And part of the reason I wanted to have you on the show today is because I know that there are so many people, whether it's eating, alcohol, doesn't matter, even work I think we had mentioned can be its addiction in itself, to numb yourself out. And I just want to say to those listening, we get you. Like, there are so many people out there who are coming to work every day and they are suffering, like, hard. So, I just want to get your take on, how did that influence you? Like, how did that show up? Like, what was going on at work for you?

[Willis]

Well, when I was still using and I was a high-functioning alcoholic, my mother had, you know, been an alcoholic also, and it wasn't until I was 13 that I found alcohol. When I was younger, I would pour the alcohol out, you know, down in the sink. I was typical ACOA, which stands for Adult Child Of an Alcoholic, and she was my baby. That's how I felt. And when, when you're a child, you know, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 years old, taking care of your parent, you know, feeling responsible for them — “Mommy, let's get you out of bed. Let's get you in the shower so that when Daddy comes home, he doesn't see,” you know, —

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah.

[Willis]

And that's not meant to be for — for children. So, it's this whole responsibility. And I used food as that coping mechanism. Then when I was — I was at my top weight when I was 12, and then at 13, my parents got divorced. And mom and I moved from this beautiful home, this little safe place on Long Island, into an apartment in Queens, lived in Elmhurst, Jackson Heights, Woodside, and Jamaica. You know, feel like all the stops on the railroad right there.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah

[Willis]

And it was just an entirely different life and I found alcohol then when I was 13, and drank for the next 16 years until I came to the end of myself when I was 29. And what had happened before then was getting into the New Age, New Age spirituality, which is a hodgepodge of a number of different religions, everything from pantheism, Buddhism, Hinduism, astrology to Zoroastrianism, you know, A to Z, the whole gamut. You know, law of attraction, Course in Miracles, the universe, Universal Mind, worshiping the creation, instead of the Creator. Looking for God in all the wrong places, the alcohol and the New Age, and then smoking when I was 15, and some — some drugs. It was, I guess, marijuana, but I wasn't too thrilled with any of that. I was more of into liquor. And those other coping mechanism — coping substances held the overeating down. So, I kept at a certain weight. So, still overweight, but not ballooned up to where I had been. But after I surrendered my life to Jesus Christ, and He completely delivered me from alcoholism — I mean, it was a miracle — I never had another drink. And shortly after that, a few years after that, actually, the smoking, as well, was able to be, you know, put that aside without willpower, because I tried with willpower for so many times. And the Lord just showed me what to do with — with fasting and and trusting Him and speaking the Word of God and praising Him, delivered from smoking. But then Wanda, you know, and going back to your original question, using those substances to cope with my life at work, at home, the original drug of choice, the overeating, or really the under-feeling, came back with — with a vengeance. And I remember when I was working in — in New York City, and I was a struggling actor, and I also worked at AIG, American International Group, AIG, in the Wall Street area three days a week as — as a secretary and receptionist. So, I was doing that to support my acting habit, you know —

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Willis]

— while I was going to auditions. And then also bussed tables at Leo Lindy's at Port Authority Bus Terminal, you know, yay. Whatever you can do to make rent, you know.

[Thibodeaux]

Oh, gosh, yeah.

[Willis]

But I would purposely go on late lunches when I was there so that I could drink. I would drink things that, you know, perhaps would not be detected on my — on my breath. And looking back at those, I mean, it's such another life, Wanda, when I was in my 20s. And I'm amazed that I'm still alive. I — I had alcoholic blackouts, waking up running through the streets of New York City. I could have been dead so many times.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah.

[Willis]

But the Lord in His infinite mercy, He — He saved me. I know people were praying for me. I mean, I look at that and I — I just encourage you, who's listening, keep praying for that one that the Lord puts on your heart. Never give up, because I know that's how the Lord saved me. Is the prayers of the saints, like you.

[Thibodeaux]

I know, like, for myself, you know, with the things that I have been through when I was — you know, I have always, you know, had my own vices, too — maybe not alcohol, but, you know, I definitely know work has been one of them. You know, I've had my own eating issues. So, you know, I think it comes up in so many different ways. And like you — like you're saying, one can kind of go play Whack-a-Mole on the other, if you — you know what I mean? So, like, if you, if you get one under control, you'll see something else flare up. And I think that's super, super common. So, I think maybe you can, you know, share your experience with it. But I think sometimes that can cause a little bit of unpredictability in the job, because you're kind of yo-yoing as you're trying to, like, get all of these things to, like, stabilize. And it can't really, because you're always like, like I said, playing Whack-a-Mole with different things. So maybe — maybe, I don't know if you would say that that is maybe kind of a signal if people are kind of looking out for their co-workers or employees, like, would you — would you say that that was something that maybe you could look for in case, you know, to watch out for other people, to take care of them?

[Willis]

I hadn't thought of that before, but yes. And are you saying to address it in — in prayer, or are you — are you saying from a more helping them have some kind of coaching or counseling?

[Thibodeaux]

Well, I guess what I'm getting at is that, you know, like, the people who are going through these issues, but they're still working — like you said, you know, you describe yourself as a functional alcoholic — that is very hard to see sometimes. But if you're playing those games of Whack-a-Mole and things are changing underneath the surface, I guess, can that change, you know, how you interact with people in certain ways based on, you know, are you medicating with food? Is it alcohol this time? You know, so will you necessarily? How does your behavior get influenced as you — as you switch between those coping mechanisms? Does that make sense?

[Willis]

Yes. Very much pulling away. Not letting people very close. That — putting on a facade, you know, putting on a mask, smiling on the outside, that — you know, empty on the inside, covering up. I would say, when a person is pushing you away, don't give up. Let them know that you care and that you're there to talk with them, and invite them to something, maybe dinner at your home, you know, something where they can be around an environment where there's some sense of normalcy, you know, and they feel comfortable. Or invite them out to lunch, you know, something like that, where you — they know that they've got a friend, even when they feel ugly, even when they feel nobody loves them, too — you know, today I had a — I do these free breakthrough sessions with — with women via Zoom. And I was speaking with this — this lovely lady in South Africa. You know, it's the beauty of technology. You can talk with people all over the world.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah, yeah.

[Willis]

And I just felt so led to say to her, Wanda — because she was battling with overeating issues, and it had been that way for quite some time. And I just felt led to tell her, “God loves you. The Lord loves you.” And she just broke down, and she said, “Does He? Does He?” She felt like she — she’d made so many mistakes that she disappointed Him —

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah.

[Willis]

You know, so many times. And it's like, no, that — and I think to let people know that you accept them as they are, and you want to help them get better in whatever way is meaningful to them. And the way that you have found is by having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I — oh, man, you know, my husband Paul and I — because he comes out of New Age spirituality stuff too — we've talked about this so many times. Why didn't anybody tell us we could have a personal relationship with God through Jesus? I thought they were talking about a religion, because my whole family, Irish Roman Catholic. I grew up in the Episcopal Church. It was all, you know, a lot of a — outward, you know, pomp and pageantry and, you know, beautiful and wonderful and all. But their relationship with God, that was like, wackadoodle. You know, that — like, you could know Him personally. So, I think that's important that we let people know that, because they can see that you're different. They see that you've got a source of joy that's otherworldly. Might as well let them know who He is.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah. Well, I asked that question because, like I said, I think it can be very difficult to spot sometimes when some people are struggling. Especially, like, with a high performer. I mean, you don't even see their — their quotas die, or like, there are no, like, measurable things to signal a problem sometimes. And so, I guess the thing that I'm emphasizing is that watching the behavior is really the — the better way to kind of gauge that. It's not the performance. You know, it's how are they interacting with people? And like you're saying, like, just go loving on somebody and letting them know that you're there. Like, I think that can make all the difference in the world. Because if — I know that if somebody would have told me, you know, you don't have to work so much. You don't have to do X, Y or Z. Like, I probably would have, like, just broken down there. And so, like, really? You know, so I totally understand what you're getting at. Like, nobody says the obvious thing sometimes, and they think that they don't need to, because you're okay. And especially in the workplace, I think that that sometimes creates a wall, because work is work, and, you know, like you're not supposed to talk about faith, which is why I do the podcast, Because I want that. I want them to — to, you know, not — you know, like, I understand there needs to be some decorum. You know, you can't talk about faith all the time, but to have that opening to love on people and say, you know, if you do notice something, Hey, can I talk to you for a minute? You know, are you okay? Like, and just to make sure that that is okay, because that's what Jesus is about. Like, being compassionate, making sure that people are okay. Because sometimes they are not. They are not. And you know, you don't know unless you ask, right?

[Willis]

Absolutely. Yeah, being that open to be a listening ear to them, and where they don't feel judged, because if they are deep in their addiction, there is a sense of shame, a sense of guilt, because we know it's wrong, no matter how much we try to cover it up and say, “Yeah, but,” “Yeah, but,” “Yeah, but,” and we really don't want anybody looking too closely at us. And to have you come up and say, “Hey, I want you to know I'm here and I'm here for you whenever you want to talk. And you know if you'd like me to pray for you —” But just realize, too, that if they're of a certain bent, like I was, I didn't want people praying for me. I thought that was manipulation. That's how messed up I was. I remember someone saying, you know, “I've been praying for you,” and I said, “Don't pray for me. I want you to pray for me.” You know, it's like, how dare you. I thought it was, like, judgment that — I had this whole crazy idea about it. But I'd say, pray for them anyway.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, that never hurts. You know what I mean? Like, even if — if they say, you know, if they shrug, — shrug — shrug you off, you know, and they say, don't want, like, God is moving on you with that person. Maybe you don't necessarily know if it's going to be a prayer, what — like, you don't know how God is leading you to that person. But you've seen — something — something in your spirit is moving to say, look, they're not okay. I gotta do something. Right? And He'll, I think He'll give it to you. You know, they always — the — Scripture says, you know, the — the — we can pray, the spirit prays for us. And so, even if — if we don't get to that point where we are consciously praying for them, I think the Spirit knows, and we communicate it to God anyway, right, what is — what is on our heart and what we want for that person. I don't think we necessarily have to say it. But I guess that's a very long winded way of saying, the compassion will come through. And just little by little, loving on them, and just every day, just checking on them in their — in your own way, in a way that they can receive, right? If it's not a prayer, okay, but just letting them know that you are a safe person, if they want to talk, okay, you're there, you know. And just making that opening, I think, makes such a difference.

[Willis]

Yes. I think it was John Wesley who said, “It seems the Lord can do nothing except someone pray.” You know, it's that free will planet and to trust that the Lord will give you the words to say. And if you have a sense of fear about that, realize where that's coming from. That's probably the enemy. You know, 2 Timothy 1:7, says God has not given you a spirit of fear, but of power and love and of sound mind — and self discipline — it says in the Amplified. And I thought, wow, when I read 2 Timothy 1:7, God's not giving you a spirit of fear, a spirit — I thought it was an emotion. I thought it was me. I was ruled and riddled, you know, with — with fear most of my life. And to find out, it was a spirit and it didn't come from God — God's not given you a spirit of fear, but a power of love. Well, if God didn't give it to me, who did? The enemy.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah.

[Willis]

And why would he do that? To stop you from being a blessing to others, or to break through to success in whatever area the Lord's calling you to?

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah. One thing that other — that also struck me as you were talking is, you know, taking help, I think especially for high-performing people, high-functioning people, we can almost see that as a sign of weakness. Like, we don't want to admit what's really — I mean, it's hard enough to admit what's going on anyway, but especially when we are — we're on the leaderboard, you know, I think that is — that is the hardest place to admit that we are struggling. Because, oh, what are they going to think? Well, that — will I lose my job? What — you know, and so, we think that everything that we are — we have built, that — we connect, like, we start to catastrophize it, I think. And I think that's some of what creates a barrier that we — we just clam up and we don't want them to like — well, we, let me rephrase that. We want them to know, but we don't want to tell them. Does that make sense? Like, if — if we could let them know in a way — like — like, it's just so hard to get it out and feel like that is safe. But if we could just know that if they knew it would be okay, we would probably say something or let it — let it come — come out, right? Because we want the help. We just don't know how to allow it. Does that make more sense?

[Willis]

Yeah, and without it diminishing us, because if we're people who are on the leaderboard, you know, who are leaders and overachievers, or, you know, and high achievers and and our worth is based on what we do and how well we do it, it's — it's a scary thing. It is a scary thing to — to admit that we need help. You know, in the 12 Steps — and I went through the 12 Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous, really through Overeaters Anonymous, back when I was in my 30s. In five years, I was in Overeaters Anonymous. And the first step is always the toughest. We admitted we were powerless over, and you fill in the blank. You know, for me, it was food. Others, it's alcohol. Some it's anger, some it's pornography. Some it's — fill in the blank, whatever it is. We admitted we were powerless over whatever, and our lives had become unmanageable. No one wants to admit that, especially someone who's a high performer, you know, and you're doing well at work. But you're really not going to get the help that you need until you surrender, because your help comes from the inside out. Your — your healing comes from the inside out, I'll say, coming from — from the Lord, because step number two is, came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity — and as believers, we know that power greater than ourselves is the Lord Jesus Christ — could restore us to sanity. And you might even be saying, well, my life's still manageable, you know. And I'm spinning, you know, plates over here, and I'm spinning plates over here, and oh, this one's falling and — and we're spinning all these plates. But we want to be healthy, fit, and free — free from that constantly, like you said, catastro-fa-phize — what a word that is, catastro-fa-phizing. Mush-a, mush-a, mush-a, mush. How do you say that? Say that again. That’s okay.

[Thibodeaux]

Catastrophizing. There you go.

[Willis]

Catastrophizing.

[Thibodeaux]

Yes.

[Willis]

Boy, that's going to be my word for that. I'm going to get a T — maybe I should get a T-shirt says that.

[Thibodeaux]

I might not be saying it right, either.

[Willis]

Catastrophizing. I like that word. It's good.

[Thibodeaux]

Well, one thing too, that I was thinking is that, you know, we're talking about high-performing people. But one thing that kind of came to mind as we're chatting, too, is that this can even hit non-leaders, because I think now there's so much pressure, oh, I've got to get ahead. I've got to do all these things, and we're so worried. Like, I guess, what I'm trying to say is the issues can come out because you're trying to meet a mold so that you can come up the ladder, right? And you're trying so hard to meet these expectations, even if you're on the very bottom rung, I think it can still show up. And you're trying to meet all these expectations. And that is pressure, especially I think for younger people who are like, my whole career, lands on this. Everything depends on right now, because if I don't get this right — so, I just want to point that out, because I don't think it's just the high-performers, or, you know, the — the people at the top that go through this. I think it's everywhere. You know, it's just — it shows up maybe a little different in the high performers because they're dealing with different things, perhaps. But the idea that we need to — we have that stress to deal with, or different traumas in our life, it's everywhere. It does not, it does not happen just in the C-suite. It's everywhere.

[Willis]

I agree. Yeah, well, I know for myself I was — I was receptionist, secretary, you know, working part time. That was — that was — that was it. And how we deal with stress, you know, there — it's important to know that we do have some stress in our life. Otherwise we would just stay in bed, not get —

[Thibodeaux]

Well, yeah, yeah.

[Willis]

— just like, you know. But we want to at least get moving a bit, and how we deal with it. It's so important, Wanda, too, what we say to ourselves, because they've since found with neuroplasticity that the brain is not concrete, that it's more like plastic that is moldable, changeable. You can physically change the shape of your brain, the shape and structure of your brain, you can form new neural pathways in your brain. If there's a lot of toxicity, a lot of toxic thoughts, you can change those. And that's actually something the Lord had shown me by the grace of God just totally years ago, before I became a cognitive behavioral therapist, before I learned anything about neuroscience or could even pronounce it, you know, He was showing me how to — I call it Holy Ghost brainwashing, with the washing of the water of the Word. That's what I needed.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah

[Willis]

I had so much junk in my head. But the thing is, if you want to change the results that you're getting, you have to go back about five steps to what is it that you're saying to yourself. What is your self talk? Because when you change your self talk, you change what you believe about yourself. When you change what you believe about yourself, you change your attitude. When you change your attitude, you change your feelings. When you change your feelings, this is where it starts to get interesting. You change your actions. When you change your feelings, you change your actions. When you change your actions, you change your results. So, if you're not happy with the results that you're getting, you've gotta — ding, ding, ding, ding — go all the way back to what is it that you're saying to yourself? Because that is what is determining the direction you're going to go. When I was a little girl, from the ages of six until I was 16, I used to look in the mirror and — inspired of the enemy, I'm sure — say to myself, looking at my eyes in the mirror, “You're fat, you're ugly, you're stupid. I hate you. I hate you. I hate you.” I did that for 10 years. So, of course, I started going in that direction. And then also being involved in the New Age. I was a psychic, I was a channel. I was involved in, you know, all kinds of things, and very confused. And we know Scripture says God is not the author of confusion, but of peace and wholeness. So, the Lord showed me how to use 2 Corinthians 10, verses four and five. And it can be used as a wonderful — wonderful way to retrain your brain. I believe in renewing your mind on the Word of God and then retraining your brain using neuroscience principles and techniques, but based on Scripture. 2 Corinthians, 10: 4-5. And I'll show it to you really quick. I would take a thought, and it's taking thoughts captive. Like, for example, I'm — I'm stupid. Let's say that I'm stupid one, or I really messed up, or whatever the thought was. You take your right hand and against the right hand side of your brain. You grab it. Whenever you're doing something physical, like this, it impresses upon the brain that you're actually doing something real, which you are. It's a physical mirroring, if you will —

[Thibodeaux]

Yes.

[Willis]

— of what's happening in the soul, your mind will and emotions, and then using the spiritual element of the Word of God. So, we start looking at thoughts from an objective standpoint. And this goes very well at work, because if you're someone who's like, “I got to get to the top, I got to meet my quota. I gotta get” — all this stuff that is — that is piling up upon you, to kind of take a step back. And when those thoughts come, just observe them, almost like they're a bird flying overhead. Thoughts can fly over your head like the birds can fly over your head. You don't have to let them make a nest in your hair, right?

[Thibodeaux]

I love that. Yeah.

[Willis]

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah, one thing that I keep thinking, you know, as you're talking, I love that you're bringing the neuroscience in it too, because I always say that God is the Great Scientist, right? He knows how our minds are put together and what we need. But you know, you are talking about the negative self talk that we have about ourselves, which we do need to address. But, and I don't know if this is going to preach to somebody, but hopefully it will. But I think we also need to address the negative talk that we have about God, because so often — I know it was true for me, like, I had the — this, I don't want to say, a negative attitude about Him, but I didn't know, like, I didn't really connect with, like, His character of just being completely loving, and that that included me. Like, I still had this kind of concept that, okay, He's loving, but — but not for me. Like, I've just kind of excluded myself, and it just kind of distorted my whole picture of who God was that way it — because it was connected to the way that I was thinking in other ways, but that all got distorted. And then, of course, you know, if you cherry pick Scripture, you know, especially when you're young or a kid, you know there are — there are scriptures that say, well, God can get angry. You know, it's for good reason, but you know, we can cherry pick, and so it can influence our view of Him that way. And so, we get these negative thoughts about who He is. And if we let those in, and we combine those with the negative thoughts about ourself, really fast it can turn into this really dark spiritual fight to say, does God even want me? Does He even care? Because we don't understand just how loving He is. We think all of the promises in the Bible don't apply to us, and we have to relearn the character of God before we can relearn who we are in His image. Does that make sense?

[Willis]

Yes, yeah. And when we see that Jesus came and what Jesus did for us, there's nothing that we can do that is greater than what He did. So, if I'm saying that, “Oh, I messed up so bad, God can't love me,” that's — that's really saying, “I'm bigger than God.” And it's like, oh no, no, that's not what I mean. You know that? No, yeah, well, God is love. You know 1 John:4, that God is love and — and that He gave the ultimate sacrifice for you. It's not salvation by works. It's salvation by His grace. And I have a little song that goes with that. May I sing a little song? It helps me remember.

[Thibodeaux]

Absolutely go for it.

[Willis]

Okay. [singing] Grace is God's willingness to use his ability and power on our behalf, even though we don't deserve it. [speaking] So, grace is God's willingness to use His ability and power on our behalf, even though we don't deserve it. That's the whole point. Because if you deserve it, then God's beholden to you —

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah.

[Willis]

And that doesn't make sense. Yeah. It's because we don't deserve it that He loves —

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah.

[Willis]

— because He is love.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah. Well, I guess what it really comes down to, the way I have been trying to communicate about this in other areas, is that it's really this idea of uncoupling. You have these ideas that you have linked to God and to yourself, and at some point, you gotta break those chains. That's why I have my picture there. You have to break that, and you have to uncouple yourself from what you believed, and you have to uncouple yourself from those thoughts that keep racing in your head, because sooner or later, they will lead you to those coping mechanisms. They will interfere with your career. They will interfere with everything in your life, especially, I think, your faith that — like, because that's like, the core, right, of everything that you do, and your — your behavior, your value systems, what it comes down to. So, if you don't do that work, and you don't break it and you don’t figure out — now it might take a lot. You might need to like, what do I need to, like, make that snap? You know, I had to work for a long time to figure that out. And it might take a lot of different small pieces. But I guess the message that I want people to hear is that it's doable. You can break the chain, and if you need to bring other people to support you, you do it. You know, you — even if it's just one person. I tell people all the time, all you need is one person who believes in you. I can help you through that thought process. I call them mental dirt shovelers, because we got all this dirt in our head that we gotta excavate and get out of there before we can implant the good stuff, like you were saying. We gotta make the room. And other people can help us do that if we allow them in. I say if, because when you are struggling, that is one of the hardest things to — it's one of the scariest things to do, at least in my experience, I don't know about you.

[Willis]

Yes. And you know, one of the first things I think, along those lines that the Lord helped me to understand, I would hear a question in my heart. And we know scripture says that Jesus said, “My sheep hear my voice and the voice of a stranger, they will not follow,” and you may not always hear an audible voice. I've heard the audible voice of the Lord several times in my life. They were spectacular, amazing experiences. But most of the time it's a witness. It's a knowing. It's an — you just have that — that peace and that — that — it's a witness, is about the best way I can describe it, on the inside. And words often will — will come with that that you realize I didn't think that, yeah, that was revealed to me. It comes from the inside. And one thing that I believe the Lord said to me a number of times, He would ask me this question: “What's your motive? What's your motive?” And it made me look to see why I was doing something. What was my motive behind it? And then another thing that He would say a lot is, “Do you trust me? Do you trust me?” And as I've looked at the word trust, there's — the Hebrew word is batach. And batach means to put — to lean the whole of your weight upon — is trust. Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not to your own understanding. In all your ways, acknowledge Him and He will direct your paths. And so, trusting Him. But then there's a step beyond that, and I just heard this for the first time. We have an annual retreat that we do with our ministry called the Fullness Retreat for women. The Fullness Retreat. And it's — it's wonderful. It's — it's so, so much fun. And just the Lord meets us there. It's so good to get away. You can — you can advance when you retreat. I'll put it that way.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Willis]

—either. It's a beautiful thing. And one of the gals there, she's one of our Weightloss Without Willpower members, who has dropped 65 pounds, even though she is co-owner of a pizza shop and she's at her goal weight. She's from Pittsburgh, Jen Schumer, and she — the weight’s been off for over two years, you know, without dieting. That's what we do. We don't diet, we live it. we like to say. But we were talking about trust. And she said — you know what the Lord's been showing me? It's a step beyond that. It's knowing Him. To know him. And she said, “I look at it this way.When my husband drives me somewhere, I don't say, ‘Honey, I trust you to get me there safely.’” And then she said, “When my daughter drops off my grandson for me to take care of him during the week,” she says, “she doesn't say, ‘Now, Mom, I'm trusting you to take good care of my son.” No, because she knows me and I know my husband. I know — and all of a sudden, that just expanded what trust meant to me. It's knowing him, like you were saying, knowing his character. How — how could you get to know God better, Wanda. What do you suggest to people?

[Thibodeaux]

To me, the biggest thing for me has been really taking small moments to myself, because I, you know, like I said, you know, all the work and work, work, work that I was doing, I did not know how to do that. I had no idea. And if you don't take those quiet moments, you can't, you know, be still know that I am God, all those thoughts keep racing. So, the biggest thing for me has been learning to slow down a little bit and take the time, even if it's just sitting out in my car in the parking lot before I come in my house. How many of us have done that, right? You know, but just taking that extra minute to myself to say, what am I even feeling? What do I need? Because if you don't connect to that, how do you know to — like, what to go to God with in prayer? How do you identify, you know, I'm struggling with this, and really identifying, this is where I'm at right now. And then, once you kind of have that inkling, you can say, “Okay, now I just — I just need to talk to somebody, and God's as good as anybody.” And then you can start that conversation, because you have kind of a foundation. You've slowed down enough to have the conversation. If you're still busy, if you're still moving, you can't — you can't really connect as well. So, that's — to me, has been the biggest thing. And also just looking for, like, I've talked about this before, but instead of looking for such — such big wins, because I think, you know, again, high-performing, you know — we, we know how to do that. We know how to set the goals, but I don't think we're very good at learning how to see the small jolts of joy, as I call them. You know, talk about neuroscience. Like, we need the small, tiny wins, the small evidences of His character all the time. And we just, I guess, just try to stay more aware and consciously look for those little things of pleasure, whether it's the warmth of a coffee cup, something that you can say, that was good. Think about all the lovely things, all the things that are, you know, good, all the things that are — Philippians 4:8 says.

[Willis]

Yes.

[Thibodeaux]

And finding those in every day, whether like the breeze on your face, there's so many, if you just stop, and that has been, like, monumental change for me.

[Willis]

You've heard the expression that when people are ready to enter into eternity, they don't say, I wish I would have spent more hours at work.

[Thibodeaux]

Correct, correct. Yeah. Well, speaking of work, though, to come full circle, what I'd like now to is, just in the last couple minutes that we've got, just tell us a little bit more about your ministries and the work that you do, and like, how you incorporate that. Like, what are your offerings that you actually can offer to women or just in general?

[Willis]

Well, thank you. Yes, I do the cognitive behavioral therapy. As I mentioned. I have a program called Personal Transformation Program, and people can find out more at drlaurette.net. It even rhymes. drlaurette.net.

[Thibodeaux]

There you go. Easy to remember.

[Willis]

[Thibodeaux]

Thank you. I know that there's going to be something that, you know, our listeners can connect with there, so, I really appreciate those offerings, too. I do have one last question for you.

[Willis]

Yes.

[Thibodeaux]

Knowing what you know now, with everything that you have been through, knowing — you know, you can — it's kind of like hindsight, 20-20, right? You know where your businesses are at now. You know the good that you're doing. So, that being said, would you change anything about what's happened?

[Willis]

Had I said yes — had I said yes to Christ when I first heard the message of the gospel. I did not hear that one could have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ until I was 19. And then it was so far out to me — I was at college, and I was invited to a play that was a — an evangelistic play, I guess, and — and my heart was touched. But because of my thinking being very New Age, and also coming from Episcopal and Roman Catholic background, when I was presented the come to Jesus, quite literally, I had it confused with becoming a nun or something like that. And I was like, I'm only 19. I don't remember — my thoughts were, I'm only 19. I'm not ready to become a nun.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah.

[Willis]

I haven't even lived yet. Oh, and so I wound up in a death style, not a lifestyle, but a death stop for the next 10 years, until I was 29. And God, in his infinite mercy, saved me.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah. Well, I asked that question to kind of close out, because I want anybody who's listening to kind of — because, I mean, this whole show has kind of been, like, everybody talks about failure or mistakes as, like, not to forget them, but like we want to learn from them and move on. Right? And the whole point of this show has been to say you don't have to forget and move on. You can build something out of it. It doesn't have to like — like, your life is your life. It is who you are. You cannot erase that. But you can do some good with it. And I think that, you know, again, to say about a backhand to the devil, like, how — how awesome is that, that you took what should have been something really negative that he was planning, you know, the devil was planning to, like, tear things down, and you said, nope. No, no, no. And God helped you do that, right? So, I just want to encourage people that He can help you tear those things down, too. Whatever it is in your life, whatever's happened, you don't have to let that stop you from doing some good things. You can build on it. It can be the foundation for the good you do. It does not have to be this black spot on your life and your career. You can do some real good.

[Willis]

I agree. And you know, the Lord will always call you to do something far greater than anything you could do yourself, because if it were something you could do yourself, how would He get any glory for it? He will often take those negatives in our — our past. There's a scripture that says, when you delight yourself in the Lord, He gives you the desires of your heart. And when you delight yourself, we think, yes, praise, worship, I love the Lord. But actually the word in Hebrew that was translated delight is onog. And the word onog means when you allow yourself to be moldable like clay in the hands of the Lord, He gives you the desires of your heart. I see it that He gives the desires from His great heart. He is love, and He wants to pour them through you as His vessel of honor that He can flow through. So, if you just empty yourself of misconceptions — “I'm not good enough. He could never use it.” — Just get all that out of the way. That is not greater than God. And He and His love will flow through you. Bless you immensely, change your life, transform you, and thus be a blessing to others. It's the most fulfilling life journey you could ever imagine.

[Thibodeaux]

One thing I will add to that, and I have said this in different places too, but I think sometimes when we talk about this, we say like,”Oh, all things work together for the good of God.” And I think for people who have been through some really hard things, that kind of sometimes can ring a little hollow. Like, how could all of that been, like, for good, right? And like, it takes some time to — for that to kind of melt and for us to understand that, right? So, the way that I have kind of come to understand from my own experience, like, all the work that I've done with the writing and stuff, I kind of — like, when David was going out, and he was with his stones and his slingshot, he was fighting the lions and the bears. That's what he was doing. He was — he didn't know he was going to do anything. That was his job. And then his father sends him out with some food for his brothers, right, on the front line. And then he sees this Goliath guy. He's like, what in the world is going on? Why isn't anybody, you know — and he didn't know that all of those stones that he'd had to throw we're going to prepare — were preparation for that one stone that he had to throw to start to lead Israel. So, I guess the message there is that, like, you don't know what this is training you for, right? So, I would just say, like, just open yourself to like, you don't see the training, but God does. And in hindsight, I know from my own experience, like, I would not be able to do what I'm doing right now, with the writing that I'm doing, I would not be able to do this podcast, any of it, if I hadn't been through what I — now, I don't — I don't wish that I had gone through it, per se. But I can see that if I hadn't, I wouldn't be able to do what I'm doing. I wouldn't — I wouldn't have the calling that I do now. Like, I wouldn't feel compelled to have the empathy and help people the way that I'm trying to do. So, I think it can — it can set that foundation. And if you say, “I don't — I don't know, you know, like, what God is necessarily doing, but the stones are in my — my pouch, you know?” And maybe that's what it was. And then tomorrow, here comes Goliath. And you're okay, you're ready, you're prepared. You didn't know you would be — it was tough. All those lions? Ho. Like, that — they're — they're not easy to kill. They are not. And I don't want to minimize anything that anybody's gone through, but it's just, you know, this gradual preparation. I guess, really, what I'm trying to say is, you are prepared. Like, He has prepared you, and don't underestimate how hard you can throw. Just don't. Does that make sense?

[Willis]

Yes, it does. And don't underestimate what God can do through you. You know, He's — you've heard the expression, He's not looking to use or interested in your ability, but your availability. In the Old Testament, He said, “Open your mouth and I will fill it.” And we can see it as like baby birds opening our mouths, and He will fill it with food, sustenance that we need. But how I've used it, Wanda, is when I don't know what to say. And I said, “Lord, Your word says that — ‘open your mouth and you will fill it.’ I'm opening my mouth in faith and just trusting. You're giving me the words to say.” And he always does.

[Thibodeaux]

Yeah.

[Willis]

We walk by faith and not by sight.

[Thibodeaux]

Well, with all that being said, we have covered a lot, and I'm very grateful for the time that you've given me. And you know, we've been at this for an hour already, which has been amazing. But do as we close out, do you mind if I pray for you a little bit?

[Willis]

Oh, please. Please do.

[Thibodeaux]

Okay.

So God, Laurette has been brave enough to share her experience, and I am very grateful that You prepared her. And of course, you know, I know that You were there with her through that preparation, and you enabled her to turn what the devil tried to do into some very, very good things. She's helping other people, and that will, you know, allow them to serve You. So, God, I just ask You to bless her work, bless her ministries, so that more people can know who You are and get through — you know, and that they they will know You and set down the coping mechanisms and learn the character that you've got. Open themselves to your love. In Jesus name. Amen.

[Willis]

Amen, amen. May I pray for you and our — our listener as well?

[Thibodeaux]

Of course.

[Willis]

Alright.

[Thibodeaux]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

[Willis]

Yes. Heavenly Father, in Jesus name, I thank you for Wanda, and I thank you for the dear one who is listening right now. Father God, you know the desires of their heart. You know, Father, what You want to do in and through them. Lord God, I just bind Satan in the name of Jesus, from operating against them in any way. No weapon formed against them shall prosper. Any tongue that is risen up against them in judgment, they shall condemn and prove to be in the wrong. For this is the heritage of the children of God. These are the heritage, the heritage of the servants of God, and they are children of the Most High God. We thank You, Lord, that it's not by might nor by power, but by Your spirit that they excel. I thank You, Lord, that in Wanda's work that she is absolutely spreading the joy of the Lord, which is the strength of all of us, Father, God, that You're showing her how to do that. And for our dear listener, that there is a great plan of God for your life right now. And I invite you to step out in faith, take a pen, write it down. Write down what the Lord's putting on your heart, and then hold it up to Him. Commit your works unto the Lord, and your thoughts will be established. And I promise you that He will lead and guide you in all truth, and he will never let you down. He will never let you go. He will never give up on you, because He loves you with an everlasting love. In Jesus name. Amen.

[Thibodeaux]

Amen. Thank you. Laurette, that was awesome. Thank you.

[Willis]

Praise the Lord. Thank you.

[Thibodeaux]

Well, thank you so much for your time, Laurette. This truly has been a wonderful conversation, and I know there are people out there that it’s gonna move, and I know that's the reason we're doing the show. That's why you're here. So, thank you again for being a guest. I really appreciate your time.

[Willis]

It was a blessed blast. Thank you.

[Thibodeaux]

Yes! Yes! Thank you.

[Thibodeaux]

Listeners, if you are out there today holding back because you’re afraid or ashamed because of what’s happened in your life, I hope that my conversation with Laurette shows that the past doesn’t have to be the end. Through the grace of God, you can turn your story into the foundation for something with meaning, with love and compassion and the power to change somebody’s life. My next guest, Danny Brassell, is going to give you specific guidance on how to communicate what God gives you in ways that produce true impact. Explore the library at faithfulontheclock.com as you wait for that to hit in two weeks, and as always, be blessed.